Season 8 Episode 4: 8-year Friends with Benefits

00:00:00 - 00:05:00

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. We've all heard about friends benefits and the friend zone. But I don't think we've ever heard about an eight year benefit relationship before I have a friend. She hasn't been on the podcast though. But we have people the podcast. Okay. You I have a friend. For eight years. To play the long game. Guys. I have Julian Andrew here with us in the studio. Julius twenty nine years old. She's lived in San Francisco for six years originally from somewhere really far away Palo Alto and Andrews twenty eight years old has also been San Francisco for six years actually from somewhere far away Albany, New York, and they're now in a monogamous relationship with each other. Yes. They're here to tell us about their eight years story, they met in college in Boston where they were friends, and but also started hooking up. So definitely that started eight years ago moved to San Francisco independently so not with each other and continued this off and on hooking up and. This charades. And now they've transitioned into a serious relationship over the past year. Very interesting for all the people who are just hovering over the friend. Waiting shooter draw. What what's from the very beginning? So you guys met in college. How did the hooking up start was was there any intentions of like dating each other? So we met like very close to end of my senior year. So I would say not really tensions of dating because I was shoes you're above that. Oh, yup. We met in burlesque dance troupe. What? I am not a great dancer. I'll be the first to admit that. But a lot of my friends choreograph for burlesque at tufts, and then they recruited bunch of the rugby boys. Enter in drew to me in the dances where they want with partner dances. What? Messed how I've been story. They needed men to do like lips and hold. I just must be props that call us. Like man props sexy man props that did not a lot of fun. That is brilliant. Hey, rugby, man. Strong size and cores flip some women. You. Yeah. You guys back this way. Like, how how'd you just so well was the it was the end of the semester, and I was actually like choreographing when I dance with a buddy of mine Corean, also moved to Andrew, and my my buddy, Andrew he was like, hey, score really likes you. She came to practice with all her makeup on. Remember, this part is like extra moisturised like. Functions and just do this. I didn't know those things look. Boston. You've got an extra moist dries drier. But yeah. So we were partners in the dance. And I knew at like we have like a little of the after the dance and had this big party, and you would guess people in burlesque like know how to party. Yeah. The got like very raunchy. So I kind of went into it knowing I wanted to like hook up with him EVA's, very aggressive, my nickname in college was come Houston for saying. Please. But it was kind of like my friends couldn't find me at a party was generally because I'd be like in the back like kind of corner a guy like, hey, why God you're putting the sex hand? Like ready to go. Okay. My sights to something it was like, I really went hard for it. So okay. See this was like as you were finishing off collars. So proud of things end I came back to California, and he was actually working in Palo Alto over the summer. There was this summary tour, and you guys we're all toward never boyfriend girlfriend at any point got it. She likes she picked up from the airport. It was like a little bit awkward thing to get back with your high school boyfriend or something the summer before my senior year of college had been kind of dating a guy who we work together. And then he was in college in California. And I was in college in Boston. And we were like we're not gonna try long distance that stupid were in college. So when I got back we kind of like rekindle things. So when Andrew came I just didn't really say anything because I was really awkward in like twenty one. And I was like let's just not address it and then just not hook up.

00:05:01 - 00:10:06

And he obviously was like he's weird. But okay. So had you guys like how many times did you hooked up? Before this like was it like a one time thing or is it like multiple several weeks? Okay. Yeah. Swede probably loath guy after college. You made it out here. Also was this because of Julia or just totally independent akin back to work for the company at workflow the previous summer at meant you guys stayed in touch this whole time. Well, when I broke up with the guy that I had been dating we'd been kind of started things again, we're hoping up again. Okay. So basically a year pass you're still in college. You're with someone else in the new regrouped your account. We got a lot of years to get Thurs. For the next few years. Like if you guys were in relationships you hook up or but we were both in like a bunch of serious relationships. In the meantime, do you guys ever think about starting relationship with each other? No, that's what's kind of funny is like people would ask us that like I we're about two years ago, we were at her friend's birthday party making out fairly aggressively in front of everyone. Because that's like what we would do what you do. And they're like, why don't you is just date? Why why would I do that? Like, it was just like not Trotta ruin a good thing. Right. Bike cemented like intimacy lack get well have a lot of phone with. Julia. But like now, we just richest. Okay. It's just like features stunning. But like had you guys met each other's significant others during this time to oh. That weird. Like, how did they react? Do. They not know. Oh, yeah. SO lying down from anyone else? So I just feel like we used to hook up very casual dated or anything. So there was a while when we were both in relationships, and we would like hang out as couples with our significant others. Unlike other, friends and stuff interesting, I'm curious like, how would you guys meet up? Like, would you go on dates would you lay St Andrews like hot that's like inspires run? All these years. I just moved out here. I was like living in like this house in East Palo Alto because that was like dealing place with like reasonable Boston level rents for me as a new. Yup. We get it. Like, I feel like I just text. Do. Unlike basically, Julie would just come over. Sounds. The benefits were turn out. Like, you're. Would hang up us the funny thing, and like one of your friends go on like friend dates kind of like one of my friends cancelled a reservation for early couldn't make the reservation to like house, the primary than I was like who likes me new, drew. So we would like go. Do things but just the two of us sometimes. But like it was wasn't dating kind extra. How sustained it is. We've been like real friends the whole time and Ryan joy just doing stuff together whether or not and there was never any jealousy was earning Chelsea pep. I think so you like pickles not good enough for him. Or were you like that guy is not good enough for her? Did you judge each other's little? I realize like how I don't understand like unhappy. He wasn't as last relationship until they broke up. Like, it seemed like everything was really good. And we all they were gonna like be in it for the long haul. So I was like she was cool. Like, my like tar Macau Huntington, would you guys hook up push for two and a half years. It was only one in the meantime, and like for that like we didn't hook up. So let me just get the timeline. So. Yours quick so young basically started hooking up. There was a year that happened. When Julie lived here injured didn't when Azure move back. He started hooking up again, you're then when did you get a girlfriend? Oh won't there's actually a long period when we stopped hooking up. Why? Well, you ruining tried to kiss him in your roof. Do so. I feel come awkward about it. I feel like I was like a little unhappy of my job. And I was like I felt weird about just like reaching out to jewelry. Like, oh, come over. Like, it was weird silica. I liked pullback for while eventually moved up to the city from Palo Alto and kind of out of the blue while I was pursuing this like new girlfriend called joy up. Like, oh, I feel good now like to hang out his friends when I go to dinner tell me what's been up with the time line of that the year. Now's a two years. Into year. Okay. So we went to a good time. And then we went back to my house through sitting on the roof than sitting here may take amid her tea. Oh, fuck always starts. TV's kind of like leaned in as we're looking at the skyline. And she was like, what are you doing? Well, it was very cute. He called me whimsical, which is like maybe my favorite complement on your. You really special? I think you're really whimsical many tried to kiss me on is kind of like I feel like we have done this before where we do this thing.

00:10:06 - 00:15:00

And like, I think probably better for just friends. But then he looked to the wine in man. I'd be like, hey. That's why. Different story. But so did you guys have with a lot of mutual friends that you would hang out with the you see each other that way a lot it develops more. Like that like, we started to have actually this contingent of people in San Francisco who had all been too tough so troop and that. Visit a bunch of people who like to take their clothes off. Party. So in that year that you guys like weren't really hanging out. Did you still see chiller through France? Or was it like no contact? There is a while. Huston Paul has been San Francisco. So that was kind of like the time that we didn't release each other rural totally up here. You're like an immersed. We're your significant others of refreshing by each other high pumped up with a lot of Mike guy. Anyway. Like wouldn't have a problem with that? Which wouldn't date me like, Johnny? Yup. Andrew. Yup. You know? Okay. So just back to the time line. Jerus- back. A you guys had this almost kiss that turned into more once you to glasses of wine. Right. I got rejected Verson after I like started dating the other from my word for two half years got it. Okay. So in that time, did you have another relationship CHAI to relationships that were both quite dysfunctional. There you go. So were you guys hanging out as friends at this point one of our cats in front that I mentioned to marry before the rest of us since she was always a big fan of like double dates triple dates who have. So she was kind of always like couple Wrangler. I am unlike group date kind of things with him with both of those boyfriends. Yeah. But one of the things we never hung out like one at one time that's dangerous. But I think it wasn't so much that it was dangerous because it wasn't like, oh, we'll just jump on each other. It was more like we. We works really well net, let group setting setting, but we didn't find like kind of one month things talk. Yeah. I guess the still seems like yes, you guys had a baseline friendship. I didn't feel like this friendship was even that deep with very social captured pretty superficial not superficial. But like I feel like a couple times when like who would talk on the phone about their weight for advice. This is like what's going on? With me this feeling like, what do you think about that? Yeah. We did have a good like baseline comfort level feel like that makes sense though. Because like if it's more than it would have been like dating gas. It was like at the right love ride could've had that lay separation. But were there any moments that it could across the line for you wanted something more you you tell me about the roof incident. Like, what did you are totally wanted to sleep with you want to date mayor to sleep with me? Second. This past year at our friends holiday party was I think one of the few type like few times. But when I like actually kind of opened up to him a little more he was like power things going, and I was like I can give you the regulary answer like the real answer. Which is like he was like I want the real answer. And I was like thanks really rough actually laying and then probably a deeper conversation that we'd had before and that was kind of the start of like us getting closer. But before that you guys never really saw each other in that boyfriend girlfriend wrong. He was really weird for a while. Sleepovers college do sleepovers. Now, I think that changes the intimacy data's allot action. Remember that we hooked up about my old roommates birthday party, and we like pets X. And then he was like all right. I'm gonna go. And I remember that time being kind of irritated comes one. Okay. Cool like seal later, I so wind things change. I think you're so we have seen. About two years ago. In may Julia was having this at all like wind brunch on the patio. Her favourite like wine bar all brunch. From my friends as I like to do is. I'm men after the brunch. We were very tipsy because everybody about champagne because they're like what kind of Brian has championed and spend way too much of that goes like a wine bar. And so the the brunch was like girls only in the naps that guys are allowed to come. The guys like your circle of friends of mcface upon the drunk. I come to the same like over. She said she sits down next to her friends who I hadn't met and swim meet her, and she's like we like we did kinda hit it off. It was like this flirty energy, and I had to go.

00:15:00 - 00:20:03

I was going to select concert that day, and she and I were like texting the whole time. And I was like, oh, this is really fun like Julie's friend Angelique. Kinda gave me the like added boyfriend at the time you were trying to set them up what I'm trying to. But I'm always like my fantasy is from France today each other. So I hang out with them all the time. Right. Like, it's. Italy with the tire asked at eager other group of friends hook up with each other. Visit like a big incestual. That's a big cuddle puddle. Yes, we're going to. Yes. That's where this is very shortly after so I started like, yeah. I was talking to scroll all the time. And like she was starting to come up, and like hang out with me, and we gone some dates, and I was actually like I'd quit my job. So I was delighted three months off. So it was like for you all to time. Like, I can hang out. And he's go is her. But I felt like, oh, I don't wanna relationship. I'm just having fun with this in like in the middle of that onto his birthday. So we're we have birthdays to his apart. We make it birth months. And we like do a ton of things in the middle of that. My roommate who had just broken up with her boyfriend was like, rebounding hard, and we're all at dinner, and she's like hitting on Andrus still ever. Really sell at like everybody at the table is like it's like so obvious like, and so she text me, and it's like can I hook up with the Android. I was like he's not in my property like you want. It's so aggressive six she's wearing like an open back shirt, and she's like leaning over mates like this thing. So you're feeling really be showing off the front not the. What? Table top position basically with her whole holdback over Andrew and one in the remnants like basically just had a big on. A little more. So so we looked up and then like the other friends, Dan, like actress, she didn't know about our incestuous group shooting in select we were like dating or specifically just like hung out a few times talking a lot shoes really upset in general occupancy like sex positive like kind of understand the distinction between like sometimes Sachs's just accent. Sometimes it's more than that. So might remain is a very like sex positive personality. So like for them like I think both Andrew and will remain were like this is just sex where might my other friends, I think was hoping for Moore and even though like Andrews kind of saying 'cause I'm hearing both like this from both perspectives. Even under kind of kept saying like, I don't want anything serious. The fact that he liked come to San Jose to see her. She was kind of reading weird that you were in the middle of this given your history with Andrew. The guest because then it ends up with her kind of telling me all this bad stuff about him. In me, kind of like do I wanna like be friends with this guy? Like, you kind of really just walked over my friend, and is actively fucking my other friends. Yes, sorry. I just wanna know understood a little more. So this is how to put gas while those. Most us. Is there a boyfriend at the state? Yes. Okay. So I was actually very not jealous about okay any of God. I really liked my boyfriend. I was like very happy like thought that was cut along hall of fame was dislike at you can talk whoever it like every at this point. You would Andrew over at this point had you broken up with your girlfriend. A year or two four seventeen. We're talking about those. Got it. Swing a year ago. Okay. I'm still not closely transitions. Have yet every fucking everyone thought Canadians working. So at the time I liked broken up with her front. It's like, no really like this isn't going anywhere. Like, it's gonna be over. She was really upset. Julia was really mad until we didn't talk to me for months. We'd be at the save. Because of hunting fucked over her friend would be invested. She like be there. She wouldn't she leave early. Wow. You're very mad at him. Yeah. We're mad at him about this than anything that transpired between you two over the years. Yeah. Cuba's not being honest. And that really bothered me. Like I felt like he was hopping straight up with her. And then this sober. There were talking until I got Tober, and we went to Lagos hardly strictly bluegrass of loop hole. Bigger befriends going and Julia was there. Julia wasn't like ping out with me talking to them. But she's high. One of our friends through like convinced me, you should really apologized. Just talked to her you should talk to her. I apologize Julius. I'm really sorry. How it ended up with your friends? I didn't mean to hurt somebody who's important to you in like, snub the way I want to behave and Julie accepted my apology like a day later. She likes one of my Instagram. You know? Shot at it since we're like, we're back. And then so Ben MI started hanging out more.

00:20:03 - 00:25:04

But I think like one thing's really kind of took off again like early spring. So almost exactly a year ago just to make sure the right time like this is like our our two thousand eighteen so basically, like another six months from your reconciliation you as refreshing. Yes. So mach Tober. We like we make up at the festival December at a Christmas party. I asked hey, Julie how you doing? And she's like do a thrill in survey like the social like real answers like I'm not doing so. Well, then like, okay. Wow. She really opened up to me, and you guys are not hooking up with inside note. I kind of like sworn is never gonna hook up with him again after he helped up with my friend. And then I in January like a month later or front is having a birthday party. Julie comes the birthday party. And she says like, hey, whatever happens don't let me hook up with Andrew's my Ramez like, I know myself. I like new if I saw him there has been like make out with him. I was like one hundred percent sure of that sounds like don't let me do it, man. Like a few hours later. She's like, hey, so that then I was like it's too late. It's gonna happen. In. I have it. So we into the get little relief public aggressive make out. And then I was like I'm ordering my Uber poll for one and he was like cool. I haven't I feel like conversation on that of like. Yeah. It's just like not gonna go any farther. Yes. We're not to make it very clear. I remember having sex again until February when we. Okay. So what happened if it were? Jewish. We had a threesome once in college and swirling out one night with someone and burlesque no action. When my house today. It's click serendipitous moments where my house man, I were like are you thinking what I'm thinking? And we were all kind of like. Yup. This is happening like and then. So it's like February of last year. And I'm we're like up this bar world dance with her friends. And I was like, hey. Just play dollars three cents. Now. After. Like, maybe we'll know another threesome that was fun. And he was like I thought we were never having sex again. I was just doesn't count someone there. Right. Kind of like scoping. How to like see who would make a good bit, man. I have this friend who's visiting from Germany like down. Then my other two friends who are couple were like wait what he was doing. And we're We're like. like. No become. Orgy, kind of became group sex on Forbes. Yeah, it was. But I think like how we kind of left that was we both had kind of wished to just the two of us. Oh, interesting. Still got is that how friends with benefits fridge about not real? Other. Awesome. That he knows like all of lax fight FRANZ, look, and I'm like, oh this X. He's like totally air annoy lake just kind of know everything in men. So that's what my friend might old roommate who they had hooked up moved to Australia. So we were hanging out like every weekend. Like all the time because everyone was like his party like celebrated. Sounds like a two month lead up where a moving and we're like. It's not. So there's a lot of socially economically. Get and like the more. We hang out. We were like, wait. This is really fun. And we really like hang out together. Why are we both still like dating other people when we modern headed to spend time with each other? Did you ever like meet up on your own or was it only through group activity on our own certain? Talking about this openly. The yet you want some more time romantically also have like a good acid trip together in their help. Help. Other way that this. Recommendations that they can't like on acid trip. That's where most people have their epiphanies. We'd like arly bombed in. And that's yeah. That's when we started having like sleepovers, most weekends are still both like going on dates on it like occasion. But the kind of you're it was It's like like I was. reserve the right to to like not be exclusive in like, I'm gonna I'm gonna go date. But I'm really about a dating only hooked up with your friends. Friends of friends. Onto dating I was like sort of trying to be actively dating. Maps. But it just didn't have the heart. You're not actively dating though because you were being like, I want to be exclusive. It was more just out of I've just wasn't motivated because you had sex all the time to all the time.

00:25:06 - 00:30:03

Julie you were actively dating other people. I was but I got to appoint pretty quickly where I didn't really wanna be. But it was kind of like we're at a point for awhile where like I wanted more. And he kept kind of the brakes. Oh, why let's talk about this. I guess one it'd been so are of like we had just been France. As now this is like this, just France. That's all we all and get like very annoying after a while. I was like we're hanging out all the time we have sex. We have everything that our relationship is like we're like best friends we hook up. What else do you want you? But I thought you guys were kind of coming to this opinion that it was more. It wasn't that like we were becoming more intimate. We could talk about more things together, and we will like much more comfortable just spending time together or K time. But it kind of it wasn't the way. I imagined my left going. Wow. How did you? Imagine your life going. Why don't we take a quick break? 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You are G L A, S S, cosmetics dot com slash dateable and use the code DAT. AB L E now back to the show. How did you? Imagine your life going six. Pushes kind of a basing now. But in some ways when Alaska front had Bill olive nation. Like a software engineer like. Neither thanks sorry. Like logical and put together I was kind of looking for another person like Kerr. And so I was having yourself. And so like Julia had so much fun with Julia. But it just didn't match my like, whoa. What's what do? I look for apartment. Oh interesting that what about how guys put women in buckets one. The fun casual ones will never really be girlfriends and men there's the whole front serious bucket. It's like it's kind of silly because having so much fun with her like she's to be really well. But I just was like not having one of our friends. It said to us like, hey, what are you guys doing like this was going to happen? It would happen long time ago. Oh, yeah. And told me freaked him out, and that was just like to be like a, wow this person like she sees me she understands and so this was in June. Right. You're all our birthdays. When I heard this, and I'd already been kind of like and Julia was going to Europe for the whole month of July. And so right before that has a K were breaking up, and it's for good this time. I want to continue that I was like it would be whatever would be awful to do it right before we have these birthday parties like. Trips weekends away. We'll do it right before she goes to Europe. And then it's like we both have art like time in Seoul, months apart by so when he breaks up with you, what's going through your mind. Julie I haven't done evenly acting a little weird. But he's kind of a weird dude select was like that much weird than normal because he is very introverted. So he goes into his head for a lot of things. Right. But I definitely was kind of picking up on something. And so when he said that I was like, okay, I'm very sad. But not all that surprise. And I had like I got to go away for months, then like have like a really great time. So were you upset like as really upset even though you were going away for a month? You were how this was going somewhere. Yes in. No. 'cause like, yes, you'd be very frustrating a lot like I was just kind of like it was the slick disconnect between his feelings on his thoughts. Right. So when he was with me, he would be like so happy like we have so much fun. And I would see it like it's like it was very obvious to me. And then when we were parked. It was like over think things it was like go away. I went away a fog along weekend. And I got back. He's like, I just don't know. And I was like, yeah. So it was kind of this like saying that I kept being like when you're with me. How do you feel? He's like good. I'm like, so why do you keep getting in your head about it? Right. And if you don't mind like when we got back like he would sue their this. And if think that was very helpful so, okay. So when you got back from Europe when I got back. It was very obvious. We still chemistry like it was just like where you guys in contact while you're away little little like a very like I kind of wanted to him to noy didn't hate him right things.

00:30:03 - 00:35:02

I texted on occasion. Be like, hey, this is where we are through stuff if she does her house ago with so the keys so so we get back, and you guys meet up. We went outside lands of their friends. We plan this like before I left, and we have like a lot of chemistry, and I was like, okay. This is not just me like this is not one sided like talks about it. And I was like. I don't really get it dawned or stand like what's missing for him. And I'm frustrated because like, I look I've really care about this guy. And I like really wanted to be with him. And I was like, I don't know what is it working when like it just seems like it should work. And she was like, I didn't tell you this. But like he was feeling a lot this way like that kind of long so over while you were way you were confiding in this other friend or chew so happy while she was away. I was so sad that Homa I just like bought a video game hundred hours video game. Like avoid my feeling it just takes going away for these feelings to really surface. So you were happy when she was back is through weird. And I like I really wanted to tell her like I was so sad when you're here. And like she was kind of like I need to keep a little bit of distance. We'll see what's fair enough. Yeah. That I might. But I just really want to talk to you. So when did the final thing happen, we're in August last year now, we've just gone out? So I'd like the most amazing time together. Our friends are calling. Hey, you to stop. Dancing very aggressively together to the weekends. And they were like you need to separate. We don't want to. But you've got your link nurse. So. Here. Then it's then it's early September. And I've actually like gone on a couple dates now, and she's she's Debbie to and there's like one Saturday night. And she asked something like, she Texan, I go how did your date Gokcen classroom statement? Seattle. Oh, she just laughed like we'd have like a really long date. Enjoy is like fire ain't even I can't do. This is terrible. This is so like, I don't like this at all and jealousy. Seeping in out that I was just like why am I doing this to myself? Like, why am I marching myself like wanting to hear by his fucking Tate? When I I wanted to eat with him. And so the next morning after we talk on the phone like if this isn't going to be a thing that we need to into like not torture to their maintain. Cutting off color the Turkey. Okay. Our friends come to visit at the end of and like. The leads to basically from like like June to September, the others like this weird on and off by in. So that's the date. We're like, okay, we can talk go and she comes because we'll be hang out through anyway. Yeah. But until then we should just like which weeks like I we would have had like a three week break. But we lasted like OBI. Coincidentally should also recommend therapists remains like my first session with him. It's going to be that day when our friend came back. And so it's like, okay. Maybe like talking with their helped me like figure out my feelings feel so conflicted about this dafter noon, right after we had this conversation on the phone. I like had a frequent back accident. I was on the phone talking to Dan, just like twisted. Like all of a sudden something pulled Mike on the floor. I was like a heap could move, and I call some friends and they're like, oh, yeah. I could come over, Mike. Well, I'll let you know if you need to and I eventually called, okay. I really can't move. I need to get some food on like gonna die of black. I was like army crawling my house. I call one person in is kind of like, oh, I just like ADA. We'd brown. Ed. Can't are Are you? you getting married dependable? And so we saw each other on find my friends. I I look up on finally friends, and I see that she's like somewhere that I don't know. Like, this looks like a residential area. Maybe she's on a date. But she was like the one person I knew I could count on. So all I don't know. If I'd texts are called you. I spent my look like I hurt my back. I really need some help that same day same day, and I felt so bad because she's like what we can't talk. I would love to talk to you. But like I understand that. I have to give you your space. Yeah. In search to came over silence on date, an it was awkward day because I had like just conversational Andrew, and I was very heartbroken. And so I tried to cancel the state. And the guy was like fun going out of town. Or what else can we do it? And I was like God. I was like I'm just making a high. I. Was like not wanting load. You're paying you know. So I went on the day. And it was just like him really keep like continuously trying to get close, ma'am meeting. Like, oh my God. This was mistake. I suppose mistakes when I got this emergency call even though I was from him. It was like so excited. It's like a big new dream about what happened. Oh my God. I have to come right now. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Gotta go. And so I was like thrills like kind of very angry at him. But like so happy to give. Yeah. So I went and I liked by Advil. And I bought him food. I was like great like caretake gar.

00:35:02 - 00:40:00

Like some sweet he was like sobbing Cy. He was like. Yeah. It felt very much like when I got there. It's like he didn't really believe I would comment to like off there. He just broke down. And so I like to care of him for a couple of hours put him in bed. And he was like we still not talking in. I was like, yeah. We're still not talking. How else like, okay? I'm like gosh. Is wrong. Stay. Why which she showed up or why did you cry? When I mean, it was like one I was like physically mobile, I was like unable to take care of myself. And like there she was and she came out of her way. It's like to help me to really like save me. And I was already said that morning like cried when off the phone with her look, I didn't want to not talk to her in water to not be in my life. But she she was and it was it was completely overwhelming. I'd like hell it together. While I was by myself. But I kind of like she was the press like of safely that loose surrounds. Hey said a week goes I after this week, and I don't really go to work. I'm just gonna Carbide's every day like a camp. It can't focus into anything. So back so much and the next weekend feel like one of our friends had like a birthday party. We both went to that. Okay. So we're talking at this thing. And that's like, let's look a little ramp for us like, oh, we can talk. We can. Yeah. It was I think it was two weeks later today that are our friends came to visit. And I went to like see this new therapists that morning I was like explaining to him. Okay. Here's the backstory, here's the situation with Julie. Here's like the things. I'm thinking feeling let me explain it to him. I'd like, wow. This sounds really stupid. Just saying how it was like a talk to like, friends and family before about it. I'd said like, oh, she, you know, she just isn't this. And like, well, you know, what can you do like this does work? You know? She's just like you maybe and talked to him and he's like well. Okay. So how do you feel like your feelings are valid like you who like, wow from so happy when I'm with Julie than like, why do I keep not doing this? I had this other realization that like how would I ever invite somebody else into my life? If I wanna keep Julius my best friend kind of women, I'm gonna meet who would assert dating. If I still have all these feelings for Joey, right? It'd be unfair. It'd be unfair. And also like, what's what is it? Even look like do I just like cut off to spend part of my life than like start a new life that that's really weird. So it kinda like occurred to me one has feelings too might if I wanna like go anywhere. I have to just like go through this. So you realized it earlier the everything was here. I mean, this is always the start dot to gender stereotype. But always. So did you ever like have like a bogut that you were just like why are we seeing when I've had conversations about it could be like, whoa, something's missing. And I was like what like you can't name it because there's nothing, and I was like get re I get really frustrated because I was like we are really good together at one point. But you're not like a software like he said this to me. That was underlying. And I was like, you're right. I'm not and like if you can't deal with that them. You're like, yeah. We are never going to work. But I think like the other thing that like I had convicts updated. I would like a really like intense highly Nepal to like really intense high school like on this kind of drive like the best things. And so I felt like a few years ago when I got through my own therapy. I kind of like let go of that just like I don't have to be like the. And I feel like he hadn't done that yet. Oh, it was so holding to help you. It's this really high standards. And he was like, it's not okay. That like euro Paige being average, basically, which is kind of the words I had used. He wasn't there yet. Yeah. He was like no like we have to like achieve things I wanna partner who wants to achieve things now is like just kind of being the best me. I don't wanna achieve but that was kind of a conversation that we had that he had dependent get to on his own was like, we don't always have told ourselves these ridiculous standards in. You're gonna be happier of. That was like I one point was able to like verbalize that that's the fundamental difference in how we looked at our lives that like doesn't work for Michigan state. So okay. This is what they go through my hands. Like, how did you maintain like confidence? They're all this because I feeling hearing someone being like, you're not the one for me at that has got take a toll. I know. And it's actually very funny because it's like I often one against like any advice I ever gifted like anyone else. Right. But it was flag actions over words, right and his actions. Always like I was reading into that more than what he would say. Like that. He this kind hairs about me like a lot. And like I kind of would see every time like he would try to pull away who's married bad at it. Right knows is kind of like a pet is not it's not just me. And I told that to him once I was like you kinda keep saying this these things, but like I'm not in this alone. Otherwise would have ended a long time ago.

00:40:01 - 00:45:00

Right. And it would have been very easy. Something keeps of pulling me back to inside think. That's where I kinda was stupid and off our friends through like a lot of. Like these ups and downs unlike off, but they were wonderful. And like, I think I just kind of I knew that what I felt was real. And I thought that he would get there. So Wayne did you guys become official on Halloween? There was a different part to the part that allowed us to become official. So like after this like first second therapy session that I might realize these feelings that was when you decided that you're going to quit your job, and you're going to travel for like a few months. Nice data should change our relationship a lot. After the Jewish said like, okay, I'm going to go away. I'm gonna get over you. In the meantime, you're my best friend. I just wanted to enjoy the time we have together and like with no, no pressure. Like, let's just like into our time before I leave in a month. And so we started hanging out a whole bunch. And I remember we had like a amid dinner for her one time like you're like dancing in my apartment, all and then I like, she's like do wanna kiss me. Like, you can just kiss me like. Do is other K is all right. And she's like, you know, there's there's really like no pressure here. Just like let's enjoy each other United leaving. Anyway, truly feel that way. Like, how did you like I did some as tough of you how in goal in mind, I felt like able to kind of torture each other on me like Warren hooking up a little bit. Like, we would like hang out. But it was like kind of clearly both wanted to name kind of thank hair as long as I know. I have this time to get over him. If that's what I need to do which like Mavis hung him that. But he also kind of didn't believe it. I was like I do have this fallback of like officials, but I need to do. I'm going to have this time and space to ride get over him. So right now, I'm just gonna like enjoy your time. And I'm just gonna like glut myself do the things I wanna do right for me. But what totally released me Saipudin relationship. You're just flood control yourself and be happy with this person that you really enjoy it. So the loss of that pressure that comes gleaned into it. And then they traduced her as my girlfriend. Eight years later. His girlfriend. A bunch of our friends in. He was like, this is my girlfriend all the other couples who were there. Like, wait. We have to like introduce each other also good to have to label it because they ever thought not we were together because we act like that. Interesting. So what we feel like when you heard that? Oh my God. It was this lack this floor. I actually left. So we were in a relationship the whole time. I was gone. We're were you. I was in Vietnam. And then he met me in Australia, which was so much fun. So I did have like some fear when I left that he was gonna do his overthinking thing. But he never did. And slack. We talked all the time in Australia was really really awesome. And then like the first trip to scrutiny by eight years later. Wow. This is a a credible. Nice little soap opera, we've got. So if you could go back in time when you do anything different. Or would you let it play out the way it did? Honestly, I feel like neither of us would have been place to be like a committed relationship like this anytime this could happen in the past. Like, I know that I definitely had my own issues to work out. I think I was just a little bit ahead of him. In terms of fat the good here. A while everyone on their own journey that your relationship is also on a south. It sounds like you guys have been through ten different relationships. Yeah. Last eight years, I've even though you're with the same person it changed so much. You gotta wait. You guys talked about each other in the beginning was just basically elect so casual so throw away, you know? Hang out with do burlesque with and the now, it's someone that you show vulnerability to weaknesses some who's seen you at your worst, Andrew. And who was there when showed up she even though she was high. She. Fuck you with. But it really sounds like usas on the injured earlier that just so resonated with me you said I have to go through this in order to get to that next step. Sometimes we try to avoid certain things like thinking that it's going to take us somewhere else yet. Was there certain things are unavoidable. You have to go through this experience to get to where you want to be those time that you you don't wanna believe that you have to go through it or that you could maybe like think your way out of it. But now you've got to play with him that your dole. How do you think this prolonged situation, I guess pulped your grant day relationship? I think kind of like had so much like the difficult stuff already. Like, I feel like we kind of before we have been like got together we've like worked through like so much shit that it's like now we kind of just get to enjoy like the good stuff. And we kind of also both know how we handle difficulties like something we we know that we can get through conflicts. We not get through fights. We know like I kind of know he's inclined to do.

00:45:00 - 00:50:00

And I also like. I really love that we like, no others history. Like, I think some people want to know that. But like I've for like for me like I love it. He already like he's not going to find anything else out that he liked doesn't know. It's like he knows. Nothing's how exactly and it's like if he wants to be with me like when he knows all of this. Then like, I know that he sees it in really wants to be with me. You guys have liked even though you have been dating for eight years have been like if each other's historians lives. Yes. Well, see this is something we can't get with modern dating. We just meet someone. Now, you don't have that history together. Right. So you have to almost like recreate all this history asks time, so what do you think? Like, what some advice you give to people who are currently in. Where you guys were let let's say two or three years ago. I think it just take a closer look at people around you. And kinda give them the time. Because I think that's what it was never really gave me ten at that time. And when we actually dant there was a lot more than that. I think either of us may be realized warming things will was respected each other tried to charter while took care of one another even if we didn't feel it boyfriend. Girlfriend about it. During the time that we were like on and off out. We had some friends who are like doing a really messy awful break-up and just yelling at each other. And all that threat. All this even though like, I tried to share the break-up conversation like three times, I still feel like we which would with respects than we tried to like we didn't try to be mean anything bad about each other. Like, yes, you are France. Now, what you've done if I would say, I feel like this really frustrated about this. I would never be like he's an asshole like 'cause I don't believe ride in your marriage and family and marriage there. Yes. Right. What I guess what have you taken from your life? Studies in like two. I think the biggest thing I've learned is like how to deal with conflict and stuff in like relationships are not always easy. And that's okay. I think like an social media all the stuff you kind of read like shift should make you happy. They should be this. And that and it's like that's just not the reality of a relationship every day of every week. It's like there's gonna be times when you're tested let you go through conflict. And it's actually kind of more how you bounce back from that. And the fact that you have it like it's couples tell me we never fight or we don't have any arguments. That's actually more of a red flag up to me and the people who were like, yeah, we fight about like x y and z in. It's like you can bounce back from those fights. That says a lot more about you than found the have them in so not every relationship. Look the same every journey is going to be the same. But really, really happy. Now. I trust him. Like, I think it'd be really easy not to after kind of ups and downs. But I do I think that's kind of the foundation that we have is like, Justin respect. Michael it fun. So I think it's interesting is like this, obviously a great success story, but on again friends of benefits, but for every great success. There's probably like a hundred that just don't work. Right, right. What vice would you give to people? They will lead their own situation of went to cut the cord versus kind of like what you said keep having faith in line her. No in your court. It's gonna work out clean like that. You brought up respect because I think if you're not feeling respected. I kind of always knew even when he was doing things that really pissed me off at it was like him in his head, you know, in like like like try to prescribe intent to someone. But it was like I knew that he cared about me like everything. It's like I knew that he cared about me. And like that helps if you're not feeling respected. Are you're feeling like someone's like lying to you. Or deceive any you always honest with me about where he was. I felt like the way you guys were talking about each other even in the earlier years there was it was a judgment free. Yeah. It was never lie. She did this yet. I couldn't believe it or he was with this person. It was just. Yeah. Very judgment Leah liking this a good segue to takeaways slipping one that I have is that like even though it's been eight years like you both gonna live your lives era lull. And like you didn't it wasn't like one of you waiting around for eight years. Like there was a period that wasn't flocks acts natural but adds it like eight years of sitting on air hoping filling would change. Yeah. It did kind of just naturally come together. And I think like the reality is like that's the only way it's going to if you're trying to force something or go if you're like pining. Yeah. I think that's the thing is I gave myself a deadline like that was kind of the trip was like, well, if this doesn't happen before the end like I need to move on. And that was like for me respecting myself. I had to cutting in myself at of leg can't wait around for someone who doesn't want to be with you. Right. Luckily, we did. But you guys were hoping. But it wasn't like you were like, oh, I really want him to be my boyfriend like you kind of just accepted what it was. Stage. I think friends of benefits get into trouble one person on wanting something more, which is usually the case out. But I think eventually did get to that place. But you both eventually got to the I. Fast.

00:50:01 - 00:55:02

Exactly, I'm just to advanced. That's a good takeaway in general. And I'll let you go onto some of them is that sometimes like people don't get to the same place on Saint time. And I think a lot of times you're like, oh will they don't have the same feelings as me like fuck them at any move on to find someone that does it's hard because sometimes like you don't want again, don't like wait around for someone that isn't gonna catch up. But at the same time of you do know in record that like you can see them going there. Like, maybe it does make sense to have some faith, but not again, wait for years and years on something. I think the fresh perspective I'm taking away from your story is you can't force things to happen. But I on the flip side as you also can't force things to not happen yet on the course of the last eight years, you guys has so many rules towards the end. We can't see each other for the next two weeks when you talk to each other making righteousness. Edginess that. But you broke all the none of those rules with health. But in the beginning of your casual relationship, you were fine not talking to each other for a year or two without setting any of these boundaries. So I think on one hand we can't force things to happen. But also listened to the universe. If you do see that you keep being attracted were magnetized to that person over and over again in social situations or just on the street, or you you're thinking about them listen to those signs because there is something there possibly, and you can't force yourself to take to be away from that. And the other takeaway, I have is you'll always learn this therapy as your feelings are always valid. Yeah. The moment you feel them. So even Julie relied. I just don't know why he doesn't see this way. He actually didn't at that point. Right. We have to respect each other to invalidate if your partner doesn't see the. That you see than we have to respect them and write them go. And it doesn't mean that they're bad for not see again the way it is it it is. And sometimes I know it's frustrating. I've been in relationships where I feel like it can't just be me feeling that. I it can't just be me feeling this this attraction or this passion or this this manages them. But sometimes you just have to the best thing is to let them go. Let them go on their joining yell it. And if they actually do feel it they will come back, but you can't pause your life. Yeah. Yeah. The other takeaway is we're always constantly trying to find someone new in our lives. Why don't we just look around? Have in our lives already. That's a good point. Because right people off so fast. I actually men this happens with meant so much because I think for a lot of guys there's just all these buckets in compartments some girl doesn't fit into that bucket. They don't go in there, and you become really hot headed about it. Or what they visualized? I think that was like a keen heart is like this visualization. You have the perfect mate for you might not actually be the person money out in bright there that you're missing those really art about those like I could think about it in. No that like, well, I've imagined this list of criteria are these filters that I have. And I know that that's wrong. That's not like going to get the outcome. I want but I still feel that way. So feel like that stuff is important to me. Yeah. It took a lot of like processing fee light to get over that. And to realize the important thing was just like feeling good with some social constructs ride for with their. You're just unraveling. What you've learned in the ass. Let your influenced by by your environment, right? And why these things are important to you. But at the core of it is you hold onto your values. And what you think is important, and what society thinks is support may not align of any. I think therapy is just like if you're ever feeling really like conflicted or confused as to why things aren't working the way because I I think for my myself as well like it was like when things aren't lining up for some reason, like whether it's your thoughts, and your feelings aren't aligning or it's like like what you think should be happening isn't lining up with your reality. Like like, you said like therapy kind of unraveling all of that in the stories that you're telling yourself had like sometimes you have no idea what you're putting out, you know. And so I think for both of us separate context. It's been like so helpful to like kind of. Yeah. Yeah. You're always trying to like he'll your own problems in like, not always good way nudity out on your relationships. And you have this friction because you haven't dealt with that stuff. That's come back on episode after episode and every lives all that. Yeah. Great story. I mean, so captivated the novel. Excel spreadsheet of your time line. But it it just goes to show you that one. I think the foundation of any good relationship is a friendship. Yes. And for anybody who tries to force something romantic in the beginning of a relationship. It just can't it can't be forced that way.

00:55:02 - 00:59:47

I didn't. That's why we're having a having such a hard time with online date, right? Because it's like you go to that day. You're expected to debut. You're like, I don't know. If I see what do you see do you? I guess a basic questions. Are you guys can't alluding to this one? I've really enjoy spending time with this person. Yes to we have a lot of fun together. Three. I know they're dependable and will show up for me and four I know that I will always be there for them to. So those four basic principles that has nothing to do with romance Ryan. But I think some of that has to develop over time. I can't see that on day to like, it's just not realistic unless if you just hurt your back to serenity. Very desperate. If she's like, yeah. I'm your keys. I think another point like it is important though to stay true. What you're actually looking for. Because I think there was a point Julie that you are like I do wanna relationship now. And I think like if you just continue to lag hook up and friends with benefits and not put any of the conversations of place like that would not have been serving for either one of you in probably would not have got to wear things are today. Now, I think also under just unlike silently miserable. Exact like, yeah. Have you guys talked about a contingency plan in case this relationship does not work out? How you handle your quote unquote friendship going forward since he kind of had to do that already. Nice well tank. Yeah. Like, I think because they have a lot of friends in common. I think it's kind of like in the past almost felt like a divorced couple. It's become like be together. We can leave me very civil with each other leg. So that we can maintain our friendships, and I don't know. I hope not an issue. But like I would go with me the space I met in like, I hope would be able to like see each other. So are all your friends being allied told ya we saw this coming? Related. Nice. Much easier. I think is how long officially have you guys been dating his point four months? It feels like you guys have been dating for eight years via have you kind of have. So ms. I think again, that's just like a testament of like, why sometimes friendship. I. Yeah. Leather that's eight years of hooking up or just needing someone as a friend. Then letting evolve over time how can build a strong foundation love it. All right, shall we wrap this up? Yeah. I mean, I think if anyone has had an experience where they've gotten caught in a friends with benefits that has not turned positive y'all we figured air before. So let's hear from others as well. Absolutely. Not in my friends list on Facebook right now. Taking inventory guy watch out if you get a like on your Instagram, you know, what's up. Universal. Okay. We're going to wrap this up. Again, Julie said we're looking for stories, and if you have a different perspective on this friends with benefits story, we want to hear from you or any other perspectives. Maybe it's just a strange way of getting together. Sometimes the universe works in very strange ways. And you cannot fight it. Okay. We love to have you as a guest on our show. So reach out to us at dateable podcasts dot com. Alright say all your action item for this week is to think about your current network of friends and acquaintances people you surround yourself with and Seve there any friendships that maybe you want to explore a little bit more. Sometimes we could write people off very quickly or put them in the friend zone and never revisit them again. But if they're already in your network people that you like hang out with that's a pretty good foundation for relationship. So take him in Tori of the people you surround yourself with and make an effort to explore some of those friendships warned. Depth want to continue the conversation. I tag any post with hashtag stay dateable, then head on over to our website dateable podcast dot com there you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching services with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums to connect with us. Find dateable podcast on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We're also downloadable on Spotify. I two and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review on I tunes. And most importantly, remember to stay dateable.