S7E10 Rewriting the Rules Part 2

00:00:00 - 00:05:00

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at a brunch spot in san francisco get a free entry into a brench now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone welcome to another episode of dateable show all about modern dating and you know what happens in modern dating a lot. Things can change real fast. We actually brought back a guest. We talked margot a few months ago. And our conversations about just like your regular modern dating conundrums and coming to these realizations about why. You're feeling the way you were when it came to like dating fatigue and all the men that you were dating and why they made you feel the way you did and you know we had a good conversation. Few months later we checked in with margo. She's back in the studio with us today and she brought someone with or do you want to introduce you brought with you. Yeah i guess that the most surprising and awesome part of this year has been a falling in love with a woman so my girlfriend. Lisa is here. Hello everyone. I've been banging my head against the wall for years trying to date men. Let's not working am i. I fell having like week. I love that in our trailer to peace that you as like. I think you just might be dating the wrong types of guys that i am sure bush. So what's been great about. This is that we have not gone any details from argo about how you guys met how this came to be so. This is the first time. Julian i are hearing this story but before we do that. Let me just give you a little background about who margot is. She has been Thirteen years she's originally from boston and dallas issues in her early thirties. She's in a monogamous relationship. Obviously and her little blurb to us was you know something was a working in dating men little. Did i know the problem was that i was dating men. She said. I never could have dreamed that i would experience love. At first sight with the first woman. I went on a date. Way all right and that woman is lisa. She's been in san francisco for two years originally from chicago. She's thirty two. Also in a monogamous relationship. Hoax her blurb here is just so sweet she says My girlfriend and i are new dating women after a long series of failed relationships with men which left us feeling empty and directionless after some serious self work in therapy. We each opened up to the idea of dating women earlier. This year this year twenty eighteen. She was my second relationship with a woman and i was her first. Our experience was love at first sight. And we're excited to share a story about five. Different forms are experienced in a different gender. Less time margaret after you came for the last time to record your episode. What happened where i had gotten in. That episode is understand the importance of communication in not being really afraid to sort of ask questions early on like to to find out intentions of the person because i was really tired of this cycle. That stuck in where. I was dating a guy like. Either they would be late breadcrumbs noncommittal but it's like you know months in. Find out that they actually are not looking for a relationship than you know. It was just pretty frustrating. But you were you just start seeing someone right when we spoke. I mean. I've dated so many people point. I'm sorry but i see like this guy was different. It did seem that way and then he was like no. I did have more fun chemistry than romantic. I think i don't know. I mean one of the things that i wonder is. I wonder if these guys picked up office before. I did like if they knew suddenly value. Did it interesting. Just wasn't that okay. Everybody always says like you're giving me best too much credit. But i don't know. I think mention sure so okay. So things obviously didn't pan out with that guy. Yeah then what happened. You know i. I honestly was really influenced insight your show and i've been listening to a lot of different episodes and you've had some really interesting guests talking about like polymers. Marriages in different things.

00:05:00 - 00:10:04

I just realized that. Like the way that i thought i was supposed to d like there is so much more variety in to what i could do. In very much rule followers are like giving myself the space to really like explore in pay and find out what was going on mesic. I did go dance with the couple. How does he line them uncomfortable. It was those think they're like. Yeah we've had a lot of people that are that are interested but then they won't choke to the date so it's actually the first person to show up. I was gonna funny So did you hit it off the woman there. In that instance kind of. I mean i really. You know i also didn't realize that i was on the pali version of the bachelorette and leg. You know it was. It was very much like they were deciding who they wanted and it was i. I interviewed unicorn. What are you telling me. I have some sort of. You know. it's like. We went on two dates like pretty quickly. The second was really fun. We went dancing. Like you know the three of us were like dancing on the floor like in making with me and you know this is all who was just staring tearing open mic moving along. I love how we went from. Like margo whose why guys break from me and like ghosts and and why are they noncommittal to like making out with a wife on the dance floor. This is married okay. And then the funny thing is she literally took my hand and tried to make me grab his decorative like no you know. It was interesting of like national at that point. Were you like maybe at the interest way. Well i think that i wanted A little bit safer during a situation where there was a man there so yeah listen there be like signs. All along looking magazine. Were the signs. Were inside liking like all my life have just had these really like platonic monogamous relationships with women. Like you know. I've had like best friends but like soul sisters like just like the. The quality of relationships women has been so great and so strong. There's always been like the one that likes is sort of like the best friends in. I never thought about being romantic with them. And i don't think i could be with any friends or anybody other than girlfriends. An a make sense. When i told my mom she was like you know it. Does it fits you like interesting. Makes sense like i'm not. I am surprised if not shocked. Okay but okay. But still there's there's so many gaps that we need to i. I want to hear bumble match with a couple. Did they have a profile a couple. Yeah so it was like her picture. Because i had opened up bumble to men and women which one were they part of the men or the women it was her profile so it was hurt like a couple of pictures of her and then pictures of them and then in the profile talks about the fact that they're a couple and when you match with another female profile who messages i whoever okay so then in that doesn't in. That situation is on the whole bundle of audio powered by interim powers. You calls meet bumble when you made the first move. I had just gotten out of a really bad break up where it was a woman with a woman and it was the first relationship with a woman where i felt ghosted. So even if you're not getting back to me etc so i ended things for c. Women are both guilty of ghosting. You sure alyssa. What was your back story like. What was your relationships with men prior. Yeah women absolutely so. I would say i saw dating a chore. Was one of those things right. Always prioritize my career. I moved around a lot. And i just felt as though as much as i had male friends i it could never really find. That emotional available wanted the dots and felt like towards the end of last year. I really just felt so robotic put every year in my birthday's like after you hit thirty one. Is it going to happen this year. I'm gonna fall big decision during a yoga meditation retreat. Some of which. I wouldn't necessarily go to because it reminded me of my religious past like going to retreat. So you have to cry like talk about how you fail. Jesus that bad also you come from a very religious leader shimon. Deacons like so. There's just a lot there in. It's not nation says the fun party christian kind of folks or they hit like rock concerts the cooler kind of church but there still was this idea from a sexually. That was more deviant right. My parents didn't necessarily say it. But i picked up on things like they would say something like hell degenerate ellen degeneres instead of law and this year northeast. I'll especially allen. So i just remember that there was a time and i go too much the story where my mom something she missed.

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There was a miscommunication but she goes. Are you game. She sat me down. I just laugh. And i was like no no. I'm not like friend. Came out on oprah. The literally came up video forum. And i asked her to record. Wash it for me. And she thought that that was me telling. Oh go live in chicago. So oprah harpo studios nearby and so. I just knew amnon that conversation. She does not mad at you but are you gay and my daddy call him and he was crying like i failed you ferment. Pass story then. She asked you that you were like now isn't no down. You knew you weren't word. I mean really had never been taught to question my sexuality. What's best friend that is clearly very sexually attracted to ask her to be like. Oh can you believe this. And kind of like some of the rhetoric I should revisit and talk to about this. I had similar tamargo. These like really indiana relationships and people are always really take girlfriend. And i'm like no. But i never pooh-poohed it too much like it was never anything. There wasn't a controversy. There wasn't a conflict. I was so repressed of numb. But i pick you up from both of you is that you were told. There's a certain way and you are exactly like from an early age statement. Yeah there's no other of your life you're really taught by society who you're supposed to be a lot about his garbage that doesn't serve as a we. Don't question it. I think until the thirtieth has been really transformative from. I cut a lot of like really transition. You sort of stop believing what society tells you who you should be who you should love what your life should look like. Can you open up to. Who am i. What do i want that. It's such a powerful thing. I would really encourage do the work face yourself their new leary but it's so rewarding just because it's a gift to get to know yourself this past year has been so transformative because i've not only gotten to know myself but i've also found in love myself. And what kind of work did you do. I found amazing therapists. Yeah i mean. I really fortunate. I sort of reached like it. Dark place around the wintertime. I just had a really really rough place and it got to the point where i really needed to ask for help. I wasn't working at the time in a twelve parents and like i don't feel like myself. I don't think that right happy daughter like he know you guys don't eat in. I really need help been so. My dad started falling in the tournament and was able to provide through his insurance therapy sessions for me. I found this woman she had experienced with Sexual trauma which is a big deal for me. you know. there's a lot there for me from being break seventeen. That's how i lost my virginity. So that's been a really transformative thing in in the way that i feel safe around men or or unsafe and also she was experience. You know with issues of adoption. Which i must adopted too. So that's there's Commandment abandonment dry lending got so. She knows that. I had been in an abusive relationship six years. So the win. Did you start opening yourself up to women. So there was a catalytic event right. So i after a recorded and after i got on the scene this couple I met sky bumble and he also like within a week asked me to be his girlfriend and you know it actually happened to private is called. Leary is invited me to trip to napa for fourth of july and we stayed with his best friends and everybody was having a blast except for him he was soaking in the corner and we got back in he goes to me and i was just like this is my boyfriend. This is not just like i'm dating. This is a guy who's asked me to be his girl. He just stopped texting community. Just like after. That didn't reach out eilly even when you reached out so irish was like not having it right. I'm like this is like this is not a way that you treat a person like i need like tell me what's going on and so finally like you know twenty four hours later. He said this long tax for us. Like i really saw that. It was ready and you know how amazing you are and i think you're such a wonderful person but i'm not and i'm sorry and mike all right but the way that he did it. I thought so cowardly. And it's like yo. Pull your socks up dude. Like this is ridiculous. Kind of like the kind of shit that i had been experiencing for men which is just like such weakness in i i was over at and i was like you know what i made the decision. I'm make i'm gonna just can you know i was exploring A little bit before him. Like i'm really going to commit to that unlike. Na turned bubble to women only like. I wonder woman and it was an intentional shift and i was like you know what i like this. I may not but i'm going to try it. I like the openness and honesty. Your show is partially because i have learned a lot about the different the variety in which. There's really laurie. You are at all many types of relationships. And i think when i started podcast for like how many episodes can do with the dating that we know right and then the more we did the more other issues and topics were uncovered associating.

00:15:01 - 00:20:09

We know what you guys alluded ya. It's like very much like this is what do you need a guy or woman get married. Have kids like it's mary like robotic. Yeah nothing that. I really learned at uncovered about myself and what. I wanted to therapies that. I've always wanted to be a mom marriage in children. It's important to me and it's an interesting. Find love the lisa It felt so far away like that dream in that goal. Now if you'll so much closer and of course like falling with women you have to change the way you picture the rest of your life but it just looks so much better now. Let's get to that later. I hear about releases of open yourself up to women. Yeah absolutely so So i mentioned this yoga. Meditation retreat that i went to that was like one of those things where my friend had to basically drag me and it was a new year like scenarios. Just never fun right. It's like you pay the package. Sounds like oh. Julie hates in san francisco. I had to coin this retreat and it was really beautiful because he worked through your shock rides in a lot of it. There is a lot of imagery that kema vision of an old woman with a gun literally in my heart. Shaqra that sent not around Not around these parts and just like what. The people be like a flower tree. I with a gun. What is happening right. And so i was like i'm supposed asa had all these like beautiful. The goal of that trek was to let go of like past anger with parents. Also send intentions to find laugh. So what i did was i immediately. Got home in meditate all time Decided that. I really had never open myself up to that. When i was twenty six. I started therapy and I stepped away from christianity a lot. And that was the time. R- out be july here but i started watching lesbian porn years of that right though repressed. I was like well. This is just because it's softer rattling his literally. I have held many times if the goal is watching us. Make you gay. So he's like you should just use like there's just automatic google alerts -solutely. I knew that all these different things. I actually was just like. I don't know how to access this through therapy. I gotta go deeper so on this whole spiritual class past life. Regression crystal therapy shock. Rework everything as like bill and prior to that i started eating palios getting like doing enzyme therapy. So my energy my body. Everything was shifting and changing And then i was doing all this work in my heart states right through spiritual advisers ricky etc Got really really intentional. About being vulnerable opening up. And so i decided. Let me open up to dating. A woman went on. My first date was a woman how many years ago this this is this year. That's right off six when you started looking at like lesbian porn now so six years later we got time started dating a man towards the beginning of this year and everything that i thought I'm puerto rican. He's dominican and he's talked about his mother and he loves his another mike. This is great. I'm so frigging board leg. That was the catalyst i needed to be like. I'm done with us like he's a nice guy but i'm wasting his time wasting mind. Let's end and so. I went on a date with him pretty immediately. I was like. I not like shallow music. What do i even like owns. Look look at women adoring lee and all right. Let's go date so we want him date To getting along like a house on fire like she literally had an aura around her. As a this is maine's in love this and then immediately. I was rejected like not interested in was like. Let's keep doing it. I think i went on so many days to so many women. Because i don't think fumbles necessarily the place. Although yet a lot of people exploring exactly so is that you're like no you're straight who i just thought was like you know. She's very curated very goddess. Like she's the one achieve immediately really was affirming liked me and i sort of fell in love with that idea of like who she was. She was very much in a lesbian since she was eleven. Show me the way she was. The best teacher fizzle because even though everything was changing about my life physically. Even my job is changing. Join this coaching program. Because they want to be a leadership coach. Mike kelly's didn't change and she did not align with my values at all. It took me awhile to be like actually just put some announcer size. Like you remember who you are to the core. And so i saw margot's bumble at. I think it's like lt are. I saw boston. Oh my goodness. I didn't even rattler girl who had just met. She's like this and this is going to interest kinda grand. Sounds like like you know. Cuba jamaica wake you know capability of random country live family yard dot is your did you go.

00:20:09 - 00:25:06

I was out in boston. I'm from the east coast. that's great. She was beautiful. And i was like heartbroken. Realize like the holy renegade over. Someone is to get under someone else to line. And i saw i sort of had to undo an unlike unlike myself from this other person and i did a bit of raking hewlett work to try to get over that and so we met an actually around. The time that you broke up with was i can be demise of my relationship interesting Like a line of santa clearest because she was just like when did she was like a few weeks need to margo lewis about lisa's profile. The caught your attention other than she's viewed in the fact that she smoking hot day. Is he party on saturday this week. He called a gay. Yeah even just like she. She was gorgeous. She just seemed really nice. She seemed like kind person. Like what was it about her profile. I forget what you written be but like in the funny thing is like using a picture of yourself before you came out into the street here in san are super different. I don't even wanna grounds. It's been a really didn't recognize that it was replayed seen profile of four. Like i think of The look like on. I think that i'd like seen. Her profile was four so it was interesting. But i just i don't know i think that i just recognized her. Like it's it's a weird thing. I have not been very spiritual my life and of in repressing a lot of ways. When my best friend's always make fun of me. She's like every time talking about astrology. And stuff like that. Your eyes glaze over nearly whatever like. I'm getting super witchy. Which is really fun a match you and then know who like who made the first move initiated and then highway guys meet up. It was me and what's interesting is. I like had the lemus pickup line. So they were that point. I was like just going through dating. Like i was just like trying to again interesting. I just found out this thing about myself. This person can be wide open. And now i'm like i like like coming out to being split wide open yet especially having sex with a woman for the first time transformative so i said let me just get going as many days as possible. So that we that we met two other. Days says whoa. Yeah i know. This is margot i date. May i say the expectations going in and by slaughter will be been texting lot like david four in like fun. The they had talk. I've never been so excited to go on a date because in my dating life. I always in. You're not a person until i meet you know it's kind of a shitty way to think about as it's true. A lot of people think that i was like she was she was somebody i cared about before matter and it was just like i mean like walking up while like something to be mentioned was that we texted the night before for some reason took some time in my journal. Things that i was looking for in a personal pickup line side line was like how does your megan liaison almost immediately like i think. We started talking about going to giants game in house like bandwagon sound. That sounds fun and we talked about boston for and you were like grandma drink. Oh allows the deal. Actually do this thing ramle. If this is a real thing as you're going to tax me at this number and confirm. I was a young. So here's the number amount x. Me now we can connect. Because i felt like that would be better and she. She wanted to meet her. I should mention that. Like we were having this conversation via attacks and i was going to need to tell her that. This is the first date with women. I wanted to be honest with her. Name's you'll get free to tell her that. Because i didn't want her to be like you might be straight. Have that fear going in and i and i told her on tuesday come on in the water spy than i thought it was the sweetest invitation. Both of you said it was luck for site described that i meeting. Yeah i walked up from like the ferry building too hard water edge. Her backwards Little ripped up jeans in the site flowing white and was like fluttering the reason that opening like hell fights out that no no man would ever remember the detail. Curly harris. yeah. I i remember what she wasn't wearing shirts like flapping open in the back of mike.

00:25:06 - 00:30:01

Crashes really sexy and like you know. And then she likes she and her sunglasses on to at least i. Quick humour is like weird. 'cause i know that can be a little bit. Maybe i actually. There was a few times at night where you would sit across from union like this feels adversarial. Like i'm not being violent. We just covers all. I'd member stations all about like the the really important and interesting. Correlation between strength vulnerability ties your first episode. Like i wanna get to that a media. I was your act. That's the most important thing that uncovered in therapy is like when you own. What makes you vulnerable when you own. What you feel shameful about when you own your vulnerability. It doesn't disempowering anywhere. Become it becomes your power. Such a liberating thing. It's like i can take over the world. Now i when that happened like around pride was the demise of that relationship and i think part of my past relationship ended because my parents we had to stop talking each other because they were being so hurtful at this point As of last week. I haven't spoken my parents two months because of this because of this because of coming out they they had a delayed reaction six weeks later so while my mom was super cool i started using the word. Shame and what. Am i going to tell people on. This is the worst betrayal then so that was really really tough. And so i share that with you pretty early on and i think you said something like really like i truly believe that you will come stronger. You said something that i was like. You don't even know me. But i realized like once. I was honorable with that. Other person in. I recognize how she just did not show lot ended to have someone on a first date like she cried. Actually because i already. I'm ask asking it'd be like in that segment here leg right out. There is a while there. I would cry every time invention. But i didn't i was able to create enough space to kind of say jokingly and you just stop i'm sorry can be taken moment like you said something really important i was just like wow. We even read poetry in the first. My gosh. so didn't women. I suggest you know tends to open up my now. Listen try why not okay. So one question that. I'm sure people have sex difference. Go like hooking up with men to not. It's time to take a quick break so we can tell you about our current sponsor green chef green chef as usda certified organic company. That includes everything you need to easily cook. Delicious meals that you can feel good about now. I don't really know my way around the kitchen. Sorry ex-boyfriends but we absolutely loved using green chef because the recipes are quick and come with easy step by step instructions chef tips and photos to guide you along now. Some of you know. Julie has been doing a paleo diet so love. That green chef offered everything from paleo vegan. Vegetarian kito gluten-free omnivore. Carnivore meal plans. Also with a variety of organic ingredients. We feel great about we were eating and got on our table and the best part is everything is handpicked and delivered right to your door. Let green chef do the meal planning frosty shopping and most of the prep. So you can live your life and then whip up the amazing meal for dateable listeners. Only you get fifty dollars off your first box of green. Jeff go to green chef dot. Us forward slash dateable green chef dot us forward slash dateable now back to the show sex difference like hooking up with men to not. That has a cold. Yeah because i could see. I totally get all the mental aspect. But i'd love to hear first of all i was. I was intimidated by the vagina. Like i to like this like what. It tastes like How'd you had sex with a woman before. I ended threesome before kind of freaked. Me out i was just you know if you're considering a threesome recommend maybe not doing it. But i don communication. Yeah yeah i was gonna like it. I like into. I've been like eating saltines. My whole life like finally had courage juicy steak and it's like oh man what was i missing ic- to a lot of sexual energy coming your way on the first day announcing really weird for me. Because i'm i'm expecting awkward. Closed off like probably. I was a student people but i think at one point i was like i don't even know i am wore that shirt knowing shirt. And you're like and you're like i haven't appropriate for work like in any hugo.

00:30:01 - 00:35:04

I hope it's because he knew that we were gonna go on a date today. Me and then i was just like and then you talked about reading name come as you heart talk about like not being able to get off on your own says okay. This is like almost like had to go to the bathroom. Because i was like. Oh my god day so we signed four days in a row. How does the first date end. Yeah i watch station to grab my hands as a house. The ladder like i could like how. How is your first name of the woman. I can't imagine a better for stay with anyone. you know. then you dislike hugged. And she went down. Didn't kiss on the state house. Like went down avenue maybe gaga. How has been different for you. I like in my first time with a woman to being split wide open in those words like literally it was like i think the next day i was just like i wasn't even able to like me and my friends always got together for dinner on sunday and i was moving at that point so i invited them over my friend. Talk about shitty date with this guy and this other girl talked about her finances. That i was the last one to give an update before so last night. And they're like. Oh my god you buried the lede like really this whole time. I gotta tell me. Like i literally was like shaking. It was just like literally like this monumental experience trusting sex margot's way better like basically our second date yet. So i ate there was no kiss. Just hug well. She knew that consent was really big for me. Because like i've i've had sexual trauma survivor is like consent is really really important and it is. The whole thing is so amazingly consensual. Look poor man and this is the second date. We asked them. Three netflix central great. I show that you wanted to his house at my. How can i remember. After i held your hand for like twenty minutes. You're just like when do we kiss off to get to kiss and you said. Oh if there's consented right now yes this is great. I think quickly. I was just like we're not going to have sex tonight or said something like that because they said i did because i really. I was just letting anybody way like. I think that this is good if we like waiting. You're absolutely like we're gonna the fear in me. Was that like if you see together to than shoko way. Yeah that what. You're saying that tells you been my experience with men. It's even when you're dating for a while like you know when you finally put out like dangeous abandoned you in for somebody with like who's adopted with and trauma. It's really really yell. So the fear in me. She says that there's i didn't wanna lose her but that we continue to didn't want her to stop. The guy did not. Even this wanted this that you at first before. I met her. But i've yet bow. I really want this woman. It was so just to ask another logical. Sex island minus. I've never been able to get myself off and that was actually like my new year's resolution this year that i wanted to learn how to get myself. How can make good news talk this long. I saw them to working on your own although great. I'm pretty happy you know. But anyway like i was worried that i was going to be able to see her and i was really scared. That like if i saw women's pleasure semen out of yeah like whistled them. How did you guys navigate around. Okay you want to know so we were on my like really awkward coach and so i think at one point when we were making i was just like me like actually will be using if you just lay down so i asked for like consistently to yeah is okay. I take this off at cetera. Then i didn't have her worry about my situation. I never go down in media. I they felt like let's focus on you feel hearing that i'd known thing as if i don't do this they will do the my legs menu like offer so logistically. I don't know how do you focus on. Like i went down on her and we also did a lot of interesting grinding situations. Acetate deserve scissor. So you wanna demonstration given burgle about two scissors early.

00:35:04 - 00:40:02

Yeah about like two triangles right or like to as if you will Together at their point is ring rubbing writing your spot exactly now the thing about To know inches even working on it together. Yes i will say to be quite honestly the woman that i was listening. Really allow me to pleasure. Her shoes is focused on me. That was really awkward. So this is super fun. Like i feel like what sex with migros. Amazing has. it's so exploration laugh ally having so much fun as graciously with. If you haven't tried lehman boobs. I really recognize ciller. You're coming together at your center. Obviously and the best way would be for her life to be on my shoulder. Oftentimes the clint on women one might be in the front. Might have it in the middle of so oftentimes not really think there's some level of like if you could also like press them together so there's like that and then there might also be things like your penetrating thinkers or with your tongue right which you like. I've never really the penetration. Far less than i was gonna ask you miss that. No no no. I talk funny because like the reaction that i've gotten from people like just reaching out to me like we came out publicly on on base looking in the amount of men who have reached out to me to be like. Hey if you ever need a third is the neck area it like it is most ridiculous respond beer in a monogamous relationship. Like really yet is just like you're making this about yourself. You come their fantasy. Is i mean you can blame a bit like i mean. It's the most possible response. It makes me so angry because the fuck like white. If i was like i a relationship with a man that would never be right. A guy with his girlfriend was ever hit him up. Like if you ever need. I need is a dick and it's like no. Actually i want that you know. Let's raise option. Yeah have you ask. Doesn't that country fingers gals really small limit. Even that like when sexist man generally hurt. He actually like her ended. I don't even know like spice things out. Because i feel like no two times same so we were wine. Country yesterday The bathroom you have. Facebook sachs's better without the bull. I what i said is better sex without bullshit. You know like you know. Oh my god to your commitment like all this shit like that just like ridiculous like pull of your fucking sakai's you better on the amount of try to make me feel that i'm not worthy of their love or their loyalty and have really tried to convince me that i'm not good enough. Now i freight it's like i know that the quality of my love is really magical really good and the love of great women. There's nothing better than the world's in Who would denied that. But what is interesting about. Both view is that you have an anger towards men but at least you don't i don't know i feel like i honestly will say that my dating pass has been with men. I do how many times i tried to like. I was just trying to slap them in. Unlike your nice you're latino you seem to be kind your mother but it never worked. I was like yeah on or i've had action. They would come to me and be like unlike me. And i'd like to see sexual interest because she's very simple saw about finding yourself. Yours is about more feeling safe in a lot of the end. My dad asked me he was like do any of this is just because you have been unsuccessful. Men like you've had some like really traumatic experiences. Like honestly no i think that at least told me early august russell's and you know i just i found love of my life in the form of surprising that she's a woman is surprising but awesome. I got to the point where my therapy lake all introspection where i wanted. I knew that i was ready for love. And that i knew that i wanted to have family all that stuff and i was able to be opened to the form that it took a non judgmental with connecting. That's power and how long did it take for you guys say i love you to each other when we had gone to a rookie session right. Gotten like these images of us getting married and i was like holding. I think i did this wrong. I was manipulative around images. That guy in my reagan specialists was like no that was your higher solve flight manifestation like what could be and so this idea of building. Manifesting has been really big for me. And i shared part of that with you. You wrote a column and sort of at the end of the plum. You said something like i'm falling in love with lisa but you didn't say the last part i don't wanna share with you because it may be too soon at wanna freak you out. I wasn't afraid of scaring you because you shared images of like meet a wedding dress.

00:40:02 - 00:45:02

Maybe ice skate a story. That night is it was like i started a new job and i was just exhausted. I was really tired. But a call on my way back home and talking or is really energizing and it was like i need be like i'm starving and she told me about this saying it limbo things where i was just so tired that like i took it in engine repressive it. We got the phone. I took a bath in into the song and it just reminded me of spoke to me of her and i raised out of bounds like dripping wet and cross my living room to like write. This thing just poured out on my fingertips in a row. Yeah i was like very strong. And everything release. Lewis is for me then. Oh yeah so. That happened. And i was just like okay. Let's don't share with me yet. Because i'm very reasonable program. Managers write some things and so the next day following sex. I looked at you and something like hit me and you were just like watches Drives something she's like. What is it about love. And you're like yeah and it was really crazy because it was like literally felt like the physical razi experience But it was also. The first time that i even orgasm. I think for that. Yeah i mean hand this summit tune with each other i mean thank you bye other question. How does your family. Your family feels how they feel about this in. Have you talked to your family further when my parents were hippies so they are just really happy that i'm in love and it's been like this thing we're we're sharing our joy with the world and we're so weird too so fortunate to each other for bay gave her the other day after we saw that apartment. That was walking away. She's oh so yeah. My family is closing on a condo that by landlords an awesome place and so on and so lisa when sought with is in a cafe disturb discussing. Are we going to make an offer. Like what's going on. And she had to get back to work so she's working for my house that day and so she laughed in. Mom is like looks after her with relief. Hugh smiler face knows like what's going on. And she's like i really like her and i saw i like yeah me too. No no you have to like. I don't have to like her. Yes really really enjoy her presence. I think that she's said before she's like i have to keep on. You guys haven't been dating that law. Like i don't get clean her as like my daughter yet. But she's like all of the young lady i mean. How could you not be about this. Let you see us together but Yeah so my family's been really really supported talking about families i have. I have a bubby. Who's ninety nine years old. And she's been very phobic in the past generation. Yeah my my cousin got married to manage. Lakeway I it like. I'm really afraid to say. But i have to say to you because our relationship is so important to me and i really love you and i don't want anything to create distance between us but i have to tell you that i've fallen in love with the woman and then alleged that my dad's like okay Gave the story Which she said was shocking to all of us us like marco. I love you. Just as you are. And i am just so happy that you're happy i could never now. You're really exploring who you are. Yeah she's asleep. She met me the so much great she is. I just love you so much. I think it's gonna change that a little bit afraid because she's been calling me this weekend while in thinking about you a lot on finally ready to really talk to you and i'm like oh shit. Is she gonna like am i to have at least situation relating back in. It's like a little bit her full. But also i just want to honor where she's at what she senior was born. The year that fixing. So how long have you been eating about two months. Now the paranoia love you somewhat about your family and like it's yeah so for my family. I mentioned six weeks into me coming out. There's a lot of reaction so my mother kind of took some time apart from her. Unfortunately my dad tried to preach to me. It was really awkward. I think you know. I understand that they. This is new. That san francisco there chicago. They've been in a religious pass forever. Different graham dry right a lot. I think in a lot of ways like my mother was very open about being like i feel like it was. It's my ego. I know it's my ego. But i just how that she's that. This is ridiculous that she feels like this. And so what i said see that inch by i could see my long feeling the same way euro. Something went wrong. Yeah there's something raw leg she goes. I know i'm being ridiculous in having a problem with us. But i just do and you know our word appearance like all that.

00:45:02 - 00:50:03

What do i say. Explain with my father. I think there's i think there's a lot of shame and so i recognize. I'm still struggling with machine yet. I had to offer grace there. And say i love you so much that i actually don't want us to be hurtful to each other and i also think she wants to serve this supportive role for me. But she can't let this. I told them i was like you. Don't have to accept who you don't even have to defend my choices but defend me and so you know they have sort of wanted to me or this next this last two months but i reached out to the recently instead. If you're honestly willing to be open with me do not be fake. We can chat. So i've been having conversations with mother father not yet. I think there's a lot there where he feels. My father was not the most faithful citing. He feels as though he started. Demonized me towards men. That's actually probably what to leave me. Come out because i your therapy like. Why can't i get over. This already. forgiven him. Why because you don't want an everyone should have the six flurries yet. Doesn't need to be met so that you're dating the same sex but just being more open till i'd say this situation is no different than someone like sticking to a specific type the race and then one day i want to try to so completely different takeaway Fantastic yeah what do you really think. Julie shared his studio. They come over. So maybe that's single here. I feel like the many takeaways as usual one of the biggest takeaways. I think everyone should be thinking about right now. Is being open to exploring who you are. And i think you said something. The beginning margot meet yourself. And that's something that we don't do very much we go out and meet other people but when you check in with yourself and was like hey you a who are you today. You like if you were to describe yourself to someone who's never met yet. How would you describe yourself. So we haven't had on her it. It takes so much courage because a lot of that comes from. Pain comes from anger gems. Frying shame and we don't uncover all those than we just ended up waiting them and and just bearing the deeper and deeper and deeper but we carry those into our relationship and then one day the deeper were goes harder explodes right so one day. All of this comes out so it's always good to check in with yourself. Meet yourself face yourself and be open to exploring cool. You are get to know yourself. Yeah i think my biggest one is in the same line is late. What society is telling you that your family is telling you like i can relate to this. 'cause my family has always been like mary. Jewish boy. like that's always been a eric. Yeah yeah and then. I did an asian guy in college then from now on. It's date someone white. It could be bench in it doesn't necessarily have to be gender and lesbian or gay relationships could be changing your type changing the race like you don't have to do. Your parents have told you all internalize a lot. We're all very easily influenced by people that that we know love us in our best interest that sometimes they their worldview doesn't necessarily serve you yet. I also just things have changed like we talked about on this podcast. Like what you heard margot is like there's not really that one traditional relationship anymore like we hear people in triad relationships glamorous marriages sexualities and gender fluidity like. There's not really like a one-size-fits-all and our parents generation that just didn't exist as much so they don't have of the male sisters. I will say like. I was shocked by ninety nine year. Old grandma. I also have two sisters one of which is going into second year of college. Despite the other one she started high school in reactions. Were always in my life. Yeah they'll be eligible with the fact that sex logging really fluid. Yeah but i think when we're talking about being open and to being open to all types of people that you're dating it's not like some people feel like okay. I usually date guys were six. Four and above. I'm going to open myself up to five hundred eleven. That's not being open. I think being open to other types of people should make you feel a little uncomfortable at first going couch. Adams yourself to challenge yourself. Say i never. I don't know this makes me feel a little bit out of my comfort zone.

00:50:03 - 00:55:02

Then you know you're being obama ever don't like exotic To it is. You can't go like there's still human being it's about opening yourself up for humans not just to check the box all souls interesting to even on these online dating apps like I was getting over this last relationship and she gave me gifts and she gave me this. She lisa you have to look for the intangibles. Yes values look for that. Now right be like to your is kind of that was really important and so i think like that is really powerful is exactly right so i think of your your episode. You mentioned like the idea of a laundry list about what you're looking for verses alarm list of what you're looking for in a relationship. Yeah podcast iro pet list. Good friend hampshire. That list isn't margot so i do. I streaming all about ruining won't be uncomfortable. There's been so many times. I think the first date you were like you kept saying. Oh this is so amazing. With how are you feeling. I'm not sure and generally would respond to that. But i'm trying to be more honest. Yeah and honestly. I'm terrified and she goes. You guys were vulnerable. Problem can be a little bit in a lot. I'm a tiny person. But i'm log renat. You like a lot of veterans that is just so solid and present. Invulnerable literally terrified. Because i wasn't expecting to meet so yes at groton. This feedback fermented. They're like you're so sure in. That makes me uncomfortable. You know that's not the right person yet right but it is like you guys like. I feel like there's been like we talked about just finding that right person so whether whatever yeah exactly exactly what it just shows you. This story is not about being gay or straight announced to do with that. I've actually heard the story from really close guy friend of mine who dated a man in college and he said i think i put myself in the gay category worthy straight category. I happened to fall in love with some who happened to be a male in a lot of people think that way in our to especially like bisexuality to it's like just about you guys have you times the soul of the person. Yeah not necessarily. I'm not. I'm not at the point. Where i wanna say like. I am a lesbian though. I don't know i mean. Yeah like a identifies as a lesbian. I don't necessarily just have found the personnel And she's a woman and that woman and that's great and i think it's like people say this is a type of person i picture myself ending up with. How can you picture that person. You have even that that person you should be thinking about the person i'm going to end up with will happen to be whoever when you're looking for that person sound like you're looking specifically for these physical characteristics so the salaries in leg. I think that there have been a lot of times eating relates. I've ignored the fact that the values are unaligned But the values matter so much more than the physical attributes of the person. Like you can't get around that because that's something that's coronets intrinsic in. It's something that's more of a problem overtime yesterday. In wine country surrounded by people. And you talked about america. Just like looking at her like this my girlfriend. I'm so proud to be you. You have like you saying what you really mean. You and i feel supported in that because especially we are an interracial relationship. We've already actually devices. Yeah we're getting a lot of which i astronauts who have access to us or who might see me and so they were experiencing a lot of male rage. When we're together we're being opened the in mail. I guess i was gary Said he was in a fucked me up in the mission nissanusa. It's a mission really. I mean so be like because we can that be silent. My parents magical weekend with my parents and we experienced three three different situations. The victory one in tacoma county one in marin and one in the mission like you know which is funny because this weekend weekends like the students coming in here. Throw it off. But i think the most potent was michigan where she walked out. She is amazing so she walked to the bus in the morning. So i could go home dogging work and stuff and we're just like we're holding hands. Were you know sitting at the bus. Stop and kiss me and then we hear the person talking in sake or are you a man that you know. He was like you in the glasses and she had sunglasses on our stock in us in his like. He's a key what it can leave us. Happening in. The bishen gone separate. Yeah magid other. I never really thought about having safety issues. As lesbian relations man can't access you right. So that's that's something like winning stand rights.

00:55:02 - 01:00:00

You're just been harassed but can you imagine if someone who is of that mind seized two women together like the so the normal issues women face alone. It's like amplified. You're in another area. Self defense courses in lgbtq course goal whereas the regular course may just be focused on one attacker the focus for the q. Course is actually focused on a group salts. You and i think experience. It might be more of the game mad. But that i recognize i was. I do this often where i worry about. The other person reality mile concerns right project that on you so i remember just being like she's not gonna wanna d- all because you're going to be targeting this this is you know having just come out and i call her. She calls me and she's like you're really been triggered by this is like i realized i felt disempowered. I didn't know what to do. How would i protected her protecting myself. I recognize. I was going through a good amount of shame from my family from the world and now i was seeing it so i'm like oh god is this makes you chair remote. We had worries about like being perceived as being Like sexual Because like neither of us has been the sexually attracted to a person ever. So it's like you kind of feel like your own sexuality knowing way happening in twenty eighteen in san francisco now this is just. I can't even imagine other blind bosnia. Wow that's gone. I mean it's it's just one of those things like not you know i really had to check. My white privilege is well. Because like i've been targeted for my size i've been targeted from a gender but i've never been targeted for my and this is now a part of my life and i really had to be filed margaret. You lived your life as a white woman who dates men and this is a shift in you know. Bigotry is just something that we're gonna have to prepare for. And that's the thing is it's there's different. You know there's an self-defense teaches. Us is a lot of different. Like forms can show pin in mental health issues. There's a lot of different things. Sometimes before being dixon you shut them down. but sometimes like this guy who who attacked emission. His hands in his pocket so we didn't know if he had weapon. Yeah we really had to defuse that situation the the thing for me. What has i felt protected by her. I felt like if i was alone. I we've been really scared. But i was tired. I felt protected. Ailsa felt protective. Like if you gonna come at us. I would fucking killed him like i would have moved heaven and earth to fuck this guy out like because nobody's attachment women and you know. I felt this overwhelmed like this argument with him. In my head on the buses. I like went back home saying. Hey don't don't you threaten women. But i knew in that moment like my instincts are pretty good. And that's one of the things in therapy. You learn to trust intuition your instincts because you have a strong All of these strong. Like internal compass. And i knew that we just needed to disengage him and that he was gonna go but at least it was like you know we should go to a different avenue for not leaving our space. The have every right to be here. we're not gonna move. So what like to wrap up this. Like what other advice would you have to anyone that is kind of struggling with their own. Sexual identity wanted to explore. Yeah that's beautiful. i'm say really get to know yourself You know i remember. I kept walking. Bernal heights hill. Every every declerk a week and a friend. Join me one day. And i remember the russia's that's when i had just gone into date with a woman and i was considering thought of like adding a man because i was like oh like this fluid and i kept seeing fluid until i realized it wasn't and remember we were walking up the hill and i'm kind of talking to her about what i'm going through. And she goes. Are you questioning your sexuality. And i was like i am and recognizing that that was that i had the full space to do not that. I've never done that just really understanding who you are. Now retrospect i see all of these. Hey that's really so. I would say like doing the work asking for help. Like so. many good friends like sola vulnerability. I was always in the role of healer in helper and so recognizing that i needed to be vulnerable to. And if you're feeling shame around this like find your community either. So many in san francisco. There's like a lot lipstick. Lesbian meet up in oakland. There's senator in castro castro this week every major to the way. Ascertain people like me. Pennsylvania's beautiful connecticut game at asking really ignorant question. Do you ever do you ever have the fear that maybe one day you would miss the presence of of mail. I've asked her those. She has the fear. That i'm gonna come up against us. Which is a legitimate fear. But i feel so much relief i mean. I think that's when people ask me like you know. Oh this is just because he had like really horrible. Interactions is a now.

01:00:01 - 01:05:06

I mean i more than than talking about think that actually am but but i feel so much relief In that i get to similize this wonderful person and There's no party me that like you get into details like sexually like i am so fulfil know. I just feel like the penises. Really kind of unnecessary for for a lot of people like the penis is never departs next. Enjoy penetration like that should be signed off strap on today and i was just like i mean and you're like okay if you wanted better but the thing the thing is like i'm i'm really believes that i don't have feet at the man. I'm really happy with the way that my life looks with lisa out to like you know in terms of advice if you're struggling with your sexuality or who you are just try a lot of different things and you know i will say like the vaginas not scary. It's not You know it's it's delicious. Yeah well depends on. Who's regina. I mean fair just just this really be brave. Be brave. That's great. I think we we should end with that brave. And here's another notion. Give out new thoughts lead to new results so the the more you can change your mindset the more you'll be able see a change in your life awesome. Okay well thank you guys so much fun and telling us your love story. We believe in love again a week i'm expedited i love. That is night them. You had to really be like okay now. We need to balance it out and we're building something you're building. The foundation on which our life is going to be. So that's like a release. I've been in the building industry for too long lake. The foundation really strong in any relationship. Like you can love. And that's okay. That's great anything. They should never limit the way that you ceiling because the rest their life is gonna sit on that foundation and totally powerful. It's important if you have questions about you. Know margot you journey. I think it's good that we can always connect you guys to higher because the poster child going through this Into coaching leaving talk at lesbians attack in new york Because i'm intact as well. And so i'm happy to provide any resources. Coaching were laundry points. Wonderful and we can link you guys for anybody and also anybody who's you know who's struggling with in streams like sexual trauma or like any adopt is out there you know. Feel free to touch me would love to provide mentoring Support always know. You're not alone in your journey. You're not alone. There's other people who are either going through it. Were have gone through it so you can always find your community you just have to go out and seek it out seattle in your stories powerful. Your story has value in. it has value for other people the way that your story can help others. That's like that really drives me absolutely absolutely. Thanks again for come into that. Your i have a bog called the real adventures of miss margo and it. Hasn't i haven't outposts actually might come the thing do anything that is just like it that the reason that i started is because they realized that some experiences can really have helped other absolutely yup and what i would have given like when i in the depths of this abusive relationship to hear stories like mine. I always Instruction manual of your boyfriend. I didn't know how to do it because young. So entrapped in trenched in it. But i think like you know our stories have power room real power. I'm just excited to share mine with with y'all will post reposted Yeah you're really excited. We're really excited and happy for you guys. So we're happy family's ah for listeners. At home if you have your own coming out story we want or you want to come out on our show even better coming out episode for anybody interested all right on that note. Let's wrap this up. Say all your action item for this week is to think back on the last time. You truly felt like yourself when you were so comfortable in your own skin and you felt liberated to be who you are to the core. This is exactly the feeling you should have the right person. So jot down this memory because a lot of times you lose our own identity when it comes to dating so list out all the things you were feeling describe who you are your most authentic self and now you have a great basis of how to assess your future dates.

01:05:06 - 01:06:27

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