S6E3 The Player Meets His Match

00:00:00 - 00:05:10

This episode is brought to you by club. We're friends help. Friends find jobs you guys. We all know how challenging it is to find a new job but higher club makes it easy. you can post a job or refer a friend for one. You can also get career. Coaching with professional career counselors to improve your resume. Increase your salary. We're practice interviewing more. Join today at club dot com all week. We're having an instagram contests. Follow us on instagram at dateable podcasts. And for each friend you tag. In the post it will count as an entry into the contest and the price two tickets for you and a friend to see buck. Tinder a love story. Which will be at hanna. Fight in san francisco on wednesday march fourteenth. We saw the show back in february and highly recommended so looking forward to giving you in a friend some tickets so you can experience it for yourselves and of course you can just go. Buy tickets at s dash tinder dot com for this show or any of the upcoming shows as well. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of debatable. A show all about modern dating. Have you ever thought about what be like to date. Let's say a dating coach or dating expert. Or what about being married to one while our guest today josh is married to somebody had as a guest on our show. Mega meryl who owns meet foxy. She is aiding expert as as a dating coach and Josh is an interesting story. He used to be a completely different dater. How was he able to get megan and to locker down. That's over here to find out. Hey josh quick okay. Let's do a little background about you because you know we want to know everything. He's thirty nine years old originally from so cal. He's been in the bay area for ten years now and he is married he just got married. How long ago about three months ago. So i'm off the market official. Who in october is that. What you said over twenty you seventeen october. Congratulations and you married. Someone who were a living gives advice to people on how to date. It's true so all of the things that i learned in the past about dating just i had to reevaluate what exactly needed to do to get this girl. So let's go before megan to after megan a. m. b. b. m. first before megan. How were you dating. What was your dating strategy. God okay so let me go back like way way back. So i'm thirty nine now right and going all the way back to like high school and i'm not going to bore you with like everything between but just to give you a little background going back to high school. I was one of those people that that like held on to. That romantic idea that you know before. I have sex with someone. I'm going to wait. Until i find someone that i love and i waited and i waited and it wasn't happening wasn't happening and then eventually i just gave up on that and and you could say i was kind of a late bloomer. 'cause i ended up not having sex until i was twenty four which is pretty late for guy especially having gone to fund party school for college but then i started making up for lost time in my my mid to late twenties i i really started Trying to understand the dating world and try and understand like what it takes to get the type of girl that want and more importantly during the earlier use would be made s for me trying to figure out what type of girl i wanted and against everybody in the dating pool. It's important to be able to date around and figure out what you liked what you don't like what works what doesn't and what makes you head for the hills so i did that a lot as i got older and more wise i started discovering different techniques in tools in chicks in things to help me along process i wrote the book a game and a lot of people though right it was a bestseller like a million plus copies or whatever and i also read the mystery method book. Oh my and i got really into it. And so i was living in southern california and i had a big life change and i moved up to san francisco and i didn't know anybody so i went on online to do dating sites.

00:05:10 - 00:10:02

You know okay a few bad and match all these things and my first thought was you know. This isn't just going to be to hook up or just to find a girlfriend like i actually wanted to meet people. I wanted to use that platform as a way to sort of meet friends and sort of network my way into a group. Because i didn't know anybody a up here and that's kind of how it started and Fast forwarding i ended up having a girlfriend met some friends Some of which were from dating site some were not but now. I'm gonna fast forward to like thirties. Which was kind of like the peak of my my dating time along this fast food. Because i don't want to bore you get to the good stock right so So that kind of brings you through understanding the background. My background up to sort of early thirties. And to the point where now. I'm in san francisco and i have a small group of good core friends and the game and i read mystery method and now i'm like really putting these theories into practice. Try to figure out how to crack the code. I and neg. Of course i nag. But that's like level one okay. Megan round pick when people think about the game and all that stuff all they think of is like naked. Oh my daughter yanking that girl right now and essentially it's like. Are you insulting her to make her turned onto you. But like that's such a small part of the whole thing. Genuinely i think all the material in both of those books and whatever else whatever other books follow that That topic are. It's good information. A lot of it is very true and applies very much to real world circumstances against your confidence on. Does it really does work. And here's the thing. The difference is intention right so if somebody is using these i guess you could say powers or skills or tools for bad and i would consider like just random hookups manipulative tactics to get women to sleep with you. That's all bad. I think that's that's horrible. And that's probably what gave the game and all that stuff a- bad rap but the goal with that kind of stuff at least it was for me was to use those things so that i could find tune my ability to date so that when i meet the girl i really want i know how to get her and and not necessarily make her fall in love with me but keep her interested enough so that i have an opportunity to show her who i really am. And then we can see if there's a real connection so just a foot in the door basically right. It's kind of like you know you get junk mail in your mailbox right. And that's kind of like dating is get all this or i mean i guess at least for a lot of attractive women you get all this crap all these like approaches all these people that are interested in. Let's say making a sale right. And then every once in a while something cut through the clutter and his interesting lee or it's interesting enough you to give it consideration. That's the goal is to get to that point however most unfortunately most people that have read those books and use those techniques. At least i've heard of tend to not go further than just getting a woman to sleep with them so So that's that's kind of like a common misconception. I think about those. Were some of your go-to techniques bomb. While i guess there are these strategies right there openers. they're closers. There are report building techniques. They're all these different tools that you can use in in different sections of the whole process like a sales funnel right and so when you first start learning when i first started learning. You use the the canned responses. The canned bears like a god. Dare i say like the the opinion openers. It might be like. Hey excuse me. I just wanted to ask you a quick question like you're asking a question. You're engaging in something that you know. Hey you're hot. What's your name you know and You get them to start talking. What would be a question. Because then i would just think you want me to donate spca or something well to be honest. I can't remember like the canned ones because ultimately what you do is you take the scripted one and then you adopt your own something that works with your own personality so i had one that i sort of made up that i called it.

00:10:02 - 00:15:09

I called the celebrity lookalike opener. Okay because i remember sometimes you actually come across someone and you really think. They look like somebody like a celebrity. Sometimes it happens right. You go up to someone and you're like oh my god you know you look like you. Look like so-and-so right. But i thought what would be really funny if i said somebody that the person absolutely does not look like at all just as like a funny opener to kind of make people laugh so insulting. I hope okay. So here's what i did so you look lie. Here's here's well. Here's one thing that. I here's here's what i used to say so for you. Okay clearly you're asian which maybe guys don't know because you're not seeing her. I'm not sure if back then. I certainly wouldn't do it now but back then if i saw you and i was interested in you i might have gone up to and been like. Oh my god you know who you look like. And you'd be like well who i'd be like. Oh it's like a striking resemblance looking at your. Is your face your body. You look exactly like whoopi goldberg. Like exactly i know it sounds cheesy and stupid and my friends used to make fun of me for it but it got a little bit of law because they knew that you got a little people these days. No who whoopi goldberg is thirty nine. So it's not like this is back in the day. The point the point was it was. It was the person that came to my mind. That was like a very different from the type of girl that oh right w yeah that would be a good example of something so wacky just review just completely ridiculous and obviously they know that i'm hitting on them but i'm trying to be funny and like now have opened up conversation right and so that's i mean you could call it a line or an opener or whatever but the bottom line is that it got me talking to someone and then i go onto the next thing which is like i know i would start talking about something. I'll probably something circumstantial like about something they're wearing or maybe it's where we are. I'm not really sure. During that time that i had just moved to san francisco. I got so into this. That i took notes. Okay come down on like an index card and would go out to bars loan. Because i didn't know anybody and i just put them into practice and like this works check. This one didn't check. And like was cisco. I was exactly systematically testing different strategies to meet people and eventually i got pretty good at it and so now fast forward to fairly recently. When i met megan my now wife was met her First of all. I thought she was hot. Obviously and I realized as soon as i heard that she was dating coach. Unlike shit like she's going to know every fucking trick her. So i met her at a party like six or seven years ago and it's kind of. She had a boyfriend with her at the time. The party i was single had and it was one of those like overnight burner parties. Some place out in the woods. You know everyone's dancing and on drugs and stuff and we weren't but yeah kind of like that anyway. So she was there with her Her then boyfriend and we. We had a really strong connection a good spark. And obviously you know her boyfriend's right there. So i'm not a home record so i'm not about to go and like you know screwed that up but apparently We i vaguely remember this. But megan tells it really well. Apparently we ended up in like this triangle frisbee throwing to each other and me and her then boyfriend were like aggressively throwing the frisbee of each other in some sort of weird masculine attempt to impress her. And so really like trying to come up with more and more creative ways to throw the frisbee like under the leg spin around and like megan's kinda like what the hell's happening and we're just like throwing this frisbee super hard at each other this. I remember a little bit. But i mean she was just like what the hell is happening. And i don't i honestly don't know what exactly was thinking okay. So anyway that night we. That was the only time we talked. And then we didn't talk for six years. No communication nothing like. I didn't follow up with her. I didn't try to put her. I didn't try to become her orbiter. Because when i remember when i was talking with her at that party she i asked her how long she'd been with this guy because it makes a difference if a girl has been in my rule was if a grossman in a relationship for less than six months.

00:15:09 - 00:20:02

All kind of hang in there. Stay alternate myself into an orbiter because realistically what's the probability that a really that relationship that's only been going for six months is gonna turn into marriage. I love this terrible or stay or of women have orbiters. Those are the guys that like act like. They're friends but really they're just waiting for an opportunity to jump in and try and start something. I call them hovers but i think better because like active motion. They're like orbiting around covering is just inactive. Nice yeah okay okay. I like it so she said she'd been relationship with this guy for like four years. Okay forget it probabilities. Hi this thing's gonna stick. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna waste my time little. Did i know that they would end up breaking up and we reconnected helping her do a video project for a friend. There was a mutual friend. And get this. The video was about guys. You don't wanna meet like nightmare. Dating scenarios and i showed up. There is a favourite to another friend mutual friend of hers and i acted like a complete douchebag intentionally that was my role. The douchebag ovalles god though she was filming it when i showed up there. I'm like oh my god. I didn't know that when you on my god. It's it's this girl. Oh my godson said the same thing to me. She's like oh my god it's you and i'm like oh shit like you remember each other. Yeah absolutely so. I did it on camera and i was a complete douche. It was like incredibly embarrassing. After that i got her number and we started dating and so she was single at the time she was. Well i guess i mean. She was dating multiple guys but she was in like a long term relationship right wing. You better the first time. Wishy a dating coach back then. yes okay. So she been a dating coach in. Your eyes is hold on here about the lines in how you went awry. I'm fascinated by. This is my typical approach girl. I know this girl's gonna call me out. What did you do so she had heard from the mutual friend of ours. That i was like this big player and that because the mutual friend is someone who's been in like the poly-amorous scene and so i kind of treated her like one of my guy friends like i would brag about my my escapades in my my glorious wins and all these things so she had this perception of me is like this player and she told megan. That megan's like okay. I really have a connection with this guy. But i've heard that he's like a major major player. And i need to have my guard up and so she told me on our first date. She's like it might have been on the phone and she was like just so you know like i don't want you using any game on me. If you use any game this is over. Like i only i. I like authentic relationships. And if i feel like this is like fake or you're acting or or trying to play a part or anything like that and this is done. I love it i. That's what she teaches. So get at that point. I'm like holy shit like six seven years or whatever of all of my dating escapades. Yeah everything that. I've ever experienced every girl every relationship. None of it mattered. None of it's gone yourself now. Was this ultimate irony. Because i had done all of that with the thought that some day. I'm gonna meet this perfect girl and i'm going to know exactly how to make her follow up or help her father love with me and then i'll be happy because she'll like the interested enough to get to know me and then but it didn't matter it didn't matter at all i had to be completely authentically myself which is great but i still will maintain that for most people. I assume that most people will not end up with a dating coach for most people. There is value to being interesting and cracking through the ice to start conversations so that somebody can get to know you. But did you see this as a new challenge because most people who are so accustomed to hiccup strategies when even consider pursuing dating coach. What made you feel confident. In pursuing meghan So one of the things that i learned in In reading the game in studying all that stuff is that It's important to they call it inner game which is inner basically. I know it sounds really cheesy. It's it's basically just confidence and you wanna have an actual interesting life.

00:20:03 - 00:25:00

You know you don't want to go out to a bar or a club or something and have some conversation with a girl insane. Like i've done all these amazing things that are lies. Because then you're just a a sleazeball making up you wanna actually have things that you do in your life. That are interesting. And so i kind of turned all the. I'd like to think that i have an interesting life. I'm a. i'm a professional photographer. I chased forest fires. I play guitar and saxophone and traveled all around the world. And so i use some of those things to help like you know create value when i'm like making a line or whatever and so instead of using lines just i guess i'll just be me. It sounds so simple. Did you feel like you're like tools or cut like stripped from you. Like the feeling of vol. I gotta be me laurel because that's like when you're one hundred percent authentically yourself then you're opening yourself up for people to criticize who you are which can be a lot more painful than somebody criticizing what you say or what you do. And that's a lot of people that's something that is difficult Too difficult cost to to risk so at any point. Let me describe sort of like your first date with megan did were you tempted to fall back into old ways. And did she call you out at any time I will say that. I maintained a few little tricks. You view but they weren't like crazy. Okay so we have this first day. We met up at a sort of bar. Coffee shop plays how to drink. Gra chatting having a good time. And i made sure that i was the one that ended the date. I it's like that false takeaway thing but in this case it actually was a real takeaway. 'cause i actually had somewhere had to be and i plan the date with the thought that i can keep it authentic. I only had about two hours to meet with her. It's done on purpose. It was still take life. So i had. Interestingly enough i was getting ready to leave to go on a motorcycle trip across columbia with one of my friends. Oh that's interesting pretty in leaving the next morning and so when i left the day i was and we had a great time and at the end of the data. I'm like i have to go. I really need to start packing going on his motorcycle across columbia And like it's interesting and it sounds like a line but it's not was real and i plan the date right before that so that i could drop that you know. So did you tell her before the date a you only had two hours or did you tell her during the day. I told her that. I i don't remember okay. Probably told her beforehand. Like i can only meet you for like an hour or two but i really wanna see you and also. I really wanted to see her before. I laughed because i didn't want the momentum that we were having to stale out those can be gone for like two weeks and it was over new years. So i'm like oh great. You know there's a high probability chances she's gonna meet some other guy that hits on her and she's gonna forget all about me so i gotta you know maxim plant some seeds and like a use of the skills but you did it in a more authentic. Yeah i like this. Like i had somewhere to go because i actually did. Have this real exciting trip planned. It wasn't like a trick up. My sleeve needed. Yeah but does she question you on it. I think so. I mean even if she did she could've just looked on facebook and seen all my ones being authentic versus like making. Yeah she's especially in her someone. Who's a dating coach. She's like like borderline like psychic like she just she went in being like i am onto you like like it. Yeah yeah definitely so. Let me tell you something else. That was like sort of along. That thread This is now maybe third second or third day of back from this trip. And we're just like sitting in her car under the golden gate bridge having like a deep conversation which i loved and Obviously she can tell that. I was very inter- and she drops this bomb on me. She's like so. I just want to let you know that i'm not looking for anything serious right now. I'm not looking for serious relationship. I i've had serious relationships for a serial monogamist and this is the first time in a long time been single. And i don't want you to get your hopes up because i'm enjoying being single. I'm dating multiple guys right now. Dam and a not looking for anything serious.

00:25:01 - 00:30:05

If if the right guy comes along it's like the man of my dreams that i'm gonna marry then. Okay then i'll definitely give that a chance. But i just want to be forthcoming with you and i was like have make you feel Well i only had one option and that was like i told her i'm like okay. I hear you and understand I just want to warn you that you should probably prepare yourself. 'cause you're going to be my next girlfriend and i just want you to make sure to really enjoy the time you're spending with these other guys because it's not going to last much longer. I was like well. Slow down there cowboy. Like i just if you know what you want then. Did she think that was a line or do you think that she felt that was a little gamy allowed me but it was also very me because if i know i want something. I'm very bold and very honest and straightforward and confident. And i genuinely thought like i have enough value in my life. I've enough confidence in my life. That i can win her over these other guys so hard dropping that bomb on you just made you think okay. I'm going to work harder to get her. Well that's what i said. But after that i made sure to have a couple of girls around guy was dating or orbiters. Honestly i was hedging my bets. I hedged my bats to protect myself emotionally. You before she told you this did you tell her. You're looking for a serious relationship bomb. What made her want to tell you this. Probably my intensity out got it. Did you know like she was an aunt or were. You still dislike getting to know. Her feet laid out after the first day. I mean i wouldn't say that like after the first day was going to marry this girl but like after like the second or third like. She caught me like staring at her hand. This was kind of an embarrassing thing. And she's like what are you doing and she was like. What are you thinking. And i'm like. I don't want to tell you. And she's like what are you thinking. I'm like i'll tell you. I was like i was just wondering what it'd be like to put a ring on that path and shoes like kinda scared or a little bit. Got it the attention that she's already tense. But at the same time like like if i know what i want. I'm going to go for it and she's not into it then. Why waste each other's time. I want you guys state for before you put a ring on that pinger one year exactly. I propose to her on our one year anniversary one year from the first date or one year from one year from the date. Vici a that. We were officially together so we dated for a little bit before we were officially together. Let's talk about that the relationship how did you get the relationship there. She was hard to get. She really was on worked. Dies like that you liked that. I liked it okay. Is it a game or was she just like it sounded like that was the mindframe shoes. I think it's just never know of the dating coach. I don't know. I mean she's she's really smart. I mean someone who studies dating and helps people to learn how to connect like. It's hard to get one over on someone like that. So i just reserved myself to just you know jump into the river and float wherever i go whatever happens So yeah so we're dating there was We took a trip to vegas. She had a work trip. I came along. I had some work to and we were really intensely into each other and it seemed to me that it was obvious that we are going to be together and that it might even be obvious that we're gonna probably end up together long-term however we hadn't actually talked about being together yet and i was waiting and waiting and waiting because i you know i wanted to make absolutely certain myself out of the water and screwed up and so i just kept waiting and then eventually i'm like okay. We're on this night. Hike under a full moon in vegas at this place called red rock canyon and there's like chirping frogs or riveting frogs and it was this intensely romantic moment and we're just hugging and holding each other and i'm like this is it the I you know. I've got to ask her to be my girlfriend. And i did. And it was this intensely romantic moment and said no. Oh yeah she said no. What did what was her reason. She just wasn't ready yet. Oh wow yeah. Oh and i was like. I can't believe you said no like this would have been the perfect place to say. This is where we got together and It ended up that. Of course i was heard about it. I was like why would she do that is maybe she doesn't really have competence in our developing relationship.

00:30:05 - 00:35:08

She did but she wanted it to be on her terms. You know she wanted to make absolutely certain and so like two days later after we got back from vegas. We were both really missing. Each other couldn't even be away from each other and she like sits me down and she's like. There's something i need to talk to you about. And i'm like what she's like. This is this is. This is kind of difficult and like shoe setting me up. She was fucking setting me up. I was about to get dumb. Yeah and then. She told me she loved me. And i'm like oh my god yes she fucking tricked me. She probably it sound like she was like wanted to make sure she was absolutely certain to especially during a period that she's like i've been in all these monogamous relationship so it probably was like sometimes it's i would have jumped the safety conditions to it's hard to imagine from another side so she went from no. I don't wanna be your girlfriend to I love you okay. Interesting is fast food. She but she wanted to like make absolutely certain. Yeah one hundred percent because she didn't really want a relationship at that time as she was going and she told me this later. Who's like i thought. If i'm going to be in a relationship it has to go toward marriage. Yeah point it's not gonna go toward marriage. I'd rather just be single. And how fun because then so many before so as understand and that's exactly what she said to you upfront like i. If it's going to be the person it's going to be the one you're so why do you think the girl the told you to lose all the lines ended up being your wife. Yeah it's time to take a quick break so we can tell you about the latest service we have been building over at dateable. We'll be offering a platform to connect you with vetted. Dating experts from our network to help with everything from dating profile reviews coaching to see where you're getting stuck in dating and even ways to get real feedback about your dating style. The sessions typically run from thirty minutes to an hour and can all be done via skype or google hangouts. So you can be anywhere. We're so excited about this. Because so many of you wrote in asking how you can find people to help up your dating game and this should be a great way to get. The personalized advice will be adding more coaches and more services and of course let us know. There's something specific you like to see to meet the coaches and book your session today. Visit dateable podcasts. Dot com slash coaching. Now back to the show. So why do you think the girl that told you to lose. All the lines ended up being your wife. Yeah you know it's like the ultimate irony right for me. All like some of my friends will joke about how many girls i did. And one of my friends says like my dating roster was like the united colors of benetton experience everything mexican and asian girl. You know everything. I wanted to know what all the different cultures are like. I'm a very curious person in it was a lot of fun. It really was and so All of that prepared me for something. That i wasn't really prepared for in a way it was unexpected and ways. It did prepare you all the dating all the game playing on the lines built up your confidence. Yes to for you to be confident in yourself to be prepared for the right person. I mean it was just negative. Who's dating coach. But just meghan in general hairdo for her. That's true that and it's also worth mentioning that at that point in time when we first got when we got together i felt like my life was really an order. I felt like my career was going our had enough money to support a relationship. Because i don't know about other men but for me. I'm sure a lot of men think this way. I know i always did so. I'm a photographer now right. But i wasn't always and before photographer. I had a regular nine to five job working cubicle life and whatnot and when i switched to being a photographer i was. I think i was like thirty two or thirty three when i made that jump. And that was dammed scary. Yeah to be an artist. Yeah at thirty three and you're so not relationship material at that time right because what girl wants to date a thirty something year old starving artist nobody right at least. That's what i was thinking. And so i really wanted to have my career in line and to have consistent like good amounts of or a good amount of income that could support both myself. And whoever i'm with and an a core group of friends and have a colorful interesting diverse life and that all contributes to my inner confidence and so there is something to be said about the timing yum pressure.

00:35:08 - 00:40:00

I think it's also not any yes. We're time by you as a former pickup artists and all the night not officially take the fat. you know. take all that away. It was still. You're building up your resume. And i think that's why so important for people to just go out there and date ryan. If you don't think you're ready for something it's good to just go and practice your social skills. No yanna what you like. What you don't like Your preferences and build build up your life even if you don't have the tools of a pickup artists obviously you had sort of an experiment to play with which is great too. I think everyone should be doing this. Not know using pickup lines but experiment with what communication skills tactics were. What doesn't but what i liked about. What you said is like you use. 'cause i think there is something about the pickup lines. I agree they get a bad rap but at the end of the day. They're just a way for people to start talking eons. Yali what you were using it to do in like building up those social skill seen what it would be. So i think i mean i think everyone goes through stages like of cereal dating and then maybe something more serious than that definitely prepares you for that serious. Because you know like you said is true. The thing is though like you've heard of the ten thousand dollars to master thing like whether it's guitar playing or whatever it's like once you've done ten thousand hours of something then in theory you should have mastered and i think the biggest issue that most people have is that they don't go on dates yet and you need to in. Maybe it's not just date but enough approaches quality date. So i would say i think we encounter a lot of people who go on day after day after date. But they're going they're just going through the motions. They're not learning from these days. So yes so that the that brings me to the second thing. So there's two things one. You need to have a many hours of experience in dating in order to understand it and to almost more importantly you need to be able to look at each date or each scenario and figure out what worked and what doesn't or what didn't and that that correction opportunity is so so key. Yep so megan runs Shoot she runs workshops through Meet foxy and she actually made me go through one of her workshop she did. She did 'cause she's like. I want you to see what i do. I want you to experience. What my clients experience of these guys. They're not like i thought. Okay this was a big misconception. I thought the people that she would work work with would be like these off. Arriving know geeky people that i would never want to associate with. But they're not. There are people that their regular people that maybe having zaidi or or they just don't remember or never learned how to approach. So i went through this this workshop with her and in the workshop. There's like a section of theory where she's like teaching people how to date and how to connect and you do role play and you like how to essentially pick up on someone but then there's another section where you actually go out to bar. Alex she takes these guys out and it's mostly guys that she works with And she'll have them which people in the real world and they'll come back and they'll say she'll be like you have to debrief. What was your experience like later. That in the game. I remember that was like a big thing of like having that feedback loop and i think that is really helpful. It's imperative yeah and so i. I'm the type of person that i was able to do that. On my own which is in my hopefully. It's not ten thousand hours to my mastery but i was able to like go home and look at what worked. And what didn't and if you aren't able to do that yourself it's important to have somebody to bounce your ideas off of so that you can know what is working and what isn't working for you. Did you have to go through this exercise. Go pick up people doing the workshop. I did. It was comfortable for me. Because i had to go up to girls. Hit on them and flirt with them and get them into your own land in front of her. And also what i realized was more disconcerting to me was not the prospect of potentially failing picking up a girl in front of my girlfriend but failing in front of the guys there because she's like i'm teaching this workshop and this is my boyfriend who's going to be doing it with you. If he fails say about her. There's a lot of pressure it's a.

00:40:00 - 00:45:04

Here's what i agree. Totally doubt the introspection. I think that will can learn from the other thing is like everyone is different. You can say one thing to one person and then the same thing to another totally different reactions disney as some people are going to jive with you and some aren't i think like one of the areas. A probably is really how you think all builds up probably why you really got meghan because you work yourself. Yeah at the end of the day. Fortunately who. I am does work with her right. And that's all that but that's really just the connection like it worked. It might not work with someone else. But that's not who you're married to write up. Also you said this word intention. And i think that is so important to know because we've talked to pick up artists. We talked to former pickup artists. And one of the biggest critiques of that community is intention and the original intention was to sleep with as many women as possible. Some people some people. And i think your intention of your authentic with your intention of say. Hey i want to date. And i want to date for ceus relationship potential marriage. That's a different intention and whatever tactics or lying to us with. That intention are totally fine in that book. A lot of bushes to build confidence lying people that were exposed to women get them more exposed to them so is it what focused on that book but it is a big part of it was marketed to men. Let's be honest here chairman. I mean single lonely men want sex. It's the number one way to get them interested in is to talk about. Hey you may be sitting at home having not had sex for like over a year but you could get this beautiful blind model doing these things like. It's a very power. You know motivator. Absolutely i think though that so i go back and forth on this but i do agree with the idea of in the beginning when you're just dating and you want figure out what you like. Same with online dating they call them vanity swipes. Because you just want validation of someone who likes you back even of their out of your league. I think there's something to be said about doing vanity wipes swipe swipes and also collecting phone numbers to build up your confidence. So that when you do end up with the right person you no longer have that to go out and collect. Numbers were to collect those vanity. Swipe yeah kind of have to get that out of your system you know what validation is a talk sic sickness in our culture today. It's i don. I won't go off on a tangent in that direction but just like bullet pointed list looking at like instagram and sell fees and and And and all that stuff. Like validation is a dangerous thing. I mean even go for myself to like when i was when i was deep in the pickup stuff like i had a. I don't know how many phone number so many like i collected them. It's like you know that song is something about like jar of hearts like collecting your jar of hearts or whatever your jari telephone number. It's just here's the thing the danger of of Spending ten thousand hours or however many hours it takes three to master or at least get comfortable and good at dating. The danger is that you can easily get lost in the the cravings and arm addiction the addiction of Of getting validation and In pseudo confidence and whatnot. And it's i don't know exactly how to prevent that from happening but it is a real danger that can knock you off your track from all this. What are some of our takeaways. This discussion my actually just two main takeaways. One is about authenticity. So even if you wanna set some boundaries for yourself on a date like i need to end the state within two hours you have to have an authentic reason for ending the date and you have to have something to back up. What you're doing can't be just an empty like i'm busy in two hours. Can't hey i gotta get back to my friends. And i just wanted to question. He doesn't see her doing upper hand. It just to upper yeah. Don't do it for the sake of just doing it. And then the second one is about intentions are talked about this. But what are your intentions when you're going out and meeting people and one of the best intentions we found. You're just wanting to meet new people like you were saying. Having the mentality of a new person in the city is actually a great mentality. because then you're kinda open to trying out different ways of meeting people being open to just talking to anybody so we can sort of use that sort of mindset even in the even if you've been cisco for like ten years it's always good to play the tourist awhile and say i'm just super open new today.

00:45:05 - 00:50:05

An my intentions are to meet new people by their their for romantic interest or not yet. I think my takeaways is that everyone has their journey of how they get somewhere. And i mean i think if you didn't have the period that you were pickup or picking up women and meeting a lot women all that it would not have prepared you for where you are today with megan but also. I think it's important that people don't judge people for that journey like she could have easily hurt her friend. That's like oh player. Yeah door that but who were then isn't who you are today. It helps you get to where you are today like. I think you said a really valid point. I've heard this other place too. It's like there is a a male dating coach. Want that was like actually be concerned with the guy that hasn't like slept with a ton of people like dated around opposed. The guy has because the guy that has has gone out of his the other guy's gonna wonder what else is out there and what's their good point. It's not universal. Shows is the dawn is there is something to that like. I think at least for myself to him. Like i've done the serial dating things. I'm not like oh. My god i need to like. Meet all these people like. If you've got an out of your system know what it's like what you're not missing and like all this stuff. So i think think yeah like. I think it's except people's journeys out judge them for. It also sounded like meghan was also going through her own journey at that time. Be in this. All this monogamous relationships and really making sure next person was it so it's also being conscious of their journey. Like it sounded like you were. You were like. I'm not going to orbit now. But i will stick around. Even though she's like i'm not your girlfriend. And then she came around exactly my i guess takeaways that i'll leave you are and this is something that i've learned from megan Mostly is number one. Be authentic you who you really are. Because if you the moment you start acting like someone else are trying to do things to appeal to certain people you're going to attract people to approve analogy that you aren't right you want to cut out the people in your life. That are not interested in who you really are yes. If who you really are isn't interesting to someone. Don't waste your time trying to get them because they don't jive with you want someone who likes who you are and what you do. No matter how geeky or dorky or awkward or strange it is so try to be someone else. Try to be yourself as much as you possibly can no matter what the cost That's number one and number two. I'll say if you aren't capable of going out and meeting people on your own then. Maybe you should hire megan. I have been a white team. I love going out with my friends. Because they're constantly pimping. The out when i was deadbolt derive always goldman maryvale it. Yeah right. But i think there is something about having that like accountability of a group. Like you said you were able to on your own but not everyone is so like it. Sounds like going out to bars at the group of people that you just learn some stuff with is a good way to do that And i think to your accountability. My last thing was like even these pickup lines right. If you're gonna call them an air quote that but it's you still fat away to make it something that felt authentic to you like you weren't going to just use the generic win the felt natural. I think people can tell if you're just like using something to open a conversation versus something that's very rehearsed enlighten done. So i don't think the takeaways like don't use any out of the box pickup line like they do open conversation especially the stage when no one's in real life like this kind of refreshing. If someone came up was like you would like will be goldberg's for you. I don't recommend anybody uses that like that was a little cheesy. And it wasn't like the morrow and it's going to be like all these guys using that line and they're like who's wealthy goldberg. Just yourself or yeah. I do think that the person the person that you eventually end up with is the person who just challenge you and the person who your normal way of doing things may not work on them. So i would. I would argue that if meghan didn't tell you very beginning to throw away all your tactics and strategies and if she wasn't a dating expert you probably wouldn't her at work. You wouldn't have pursued as hard because there was really no barrier to entry. Maybe you it's kind of like you know the student trying to to get the teacher.

00:50:05 - 00:55:00

It's like a formidable opponent way. A challenge and of. I've never shied away from a gel or i don't think i still think your connection would have been as deep. Yeah that's where molise i mean. It's hard to know. Obviously you didn't see how it played out that way but it sounds like you're able to finally be like just be myself invulnerable. This girl ask ultimately what led to a marriage. So i think it's about this last takeaway and you said something that sparked this for me julie. It's about like these quality date that we need to focus more on not just dating from the sake of dating but every day you should have takeaways from it and during the date you should think about. How do i move the state forward even if you don't see romantic potential. How do i move this conversation. Forward in which i'm going to get something out of it i'm gonna learn something out of it What we hear a lot of times people go through the motions in the same questions about the exact same shit on dade and they walk away going. I don't know how i felt about that date they've become ambivalent and we don't want it's about quality over quantity so yes go on all these dates to find out more about yourself to learn about other people but make sure they're quality dates and you're taking away something from them. Perfect time for a quick question i do. It comes from jason. How do you know it feels right to approach a pretty girl in the situation that appears to be uncalled-for such as the bus stop grocery store or another place where people generally are doing their own thing. Okay i definitely thoughts on that In in response. I will pose another question. What makes that scenario for. Yeah that's a good who decides who decided that was uncalled for sure. I don't think there's any scenario where it's an. Unless i mean if you're in a funeral that might be kind of a bad place to pick up on someone but maybe it wouldn't depending on scenario I i don't think that we shouldn't create limits like that. We shouldn't create these rules for why you can and why you can't approach. I think if you're curious about someone harnessed that curiosity and go and talk to them. Yeah i agree. There's so many times. And i'm guilty of this too that i'll be like oh like meat so if i go out tonight to a bar but i don't think about like every other interaction i've had in the day. Why does it have to be like this one time of the day when you're like at not even natural right like these other times like this is your life day to day. I totally impact you on the bus. Stop the store walking down the street. Wherever those places you you're going to have probably more quality interactions with someone than at a place like a bar anyway. Yup probably in terms of like lines are leased to approach any suggestions at a bus off. Eight bus stop. Yeah so in the scenario jason sees a hot girl. The bus stop and she waiting for a bus. Yeah she's where she's waiting to be approached by jason. Say she's waiting for a bus. I don't know maybe he sits down and says you know where we going. I don't know honestly it doesn't really matter what you start with. As long as you're you don't come off as creepy. You're friendly you're smiling. You're genuinely curious about them. Now i find the best way to start an open. Conversation is to have some sort of prior knowledge. They may not know. So even if you're making up for example if you see someone at a bus stop and you talk to them in there sitting there be like you know what i would sit. There saw homeless man pitching their yesterday. Like something that makes. It seem like. I'm offering you some sort of knowledge in opening up as conversation. Also helping you even. It's just not on if it were me like after maybe a couple minutes of of just chatting sitting at the bus stop presuming. They're sitting or something i might be like. There's one problem with this bus route. It doesn't seem to be going to this particular restaurant. And i really would like you to go to this restaurant. The bus goes there. I like the situation. I would be like what time her like ida friend. That was recently single. A really good looking guy. He's like what. Do i say to girls ahsley just like say it. Just don't be creepy and you'll do okay like i think there's it's interesting this whole conversation to open. We heard on the pockets to the inner dialogue.

00:55:00 - 01:00:03

That men have the women sometimes. Don't see and take for granted of like trying to like get a leg up on other men in like approach women like there's all of that and i think it's really fascinating i mean i'm not gonna speak for men because i'm not a man but like i think women are receptive as long as it's stock creepy. They're into what is in front of them and for people in general not just for women but any here from the wind from women. The most women say all men don't approach in the city. They're just not aggressive like other cities. While i would also say. Let's do our part and make ourselves more approachable in this situation. It shouldn't be all jason's responsibility to go up and talk to this girl. The other girl should also make herself available to be top two or approach if she were open to it so for one example is i always say pay attention to what people are wearing or or bringing with them people who tend to have kind of like let's say words on their shirt are much more open to being approached than people were wearing all black. That's like there. I don't wanna talk to anybody mode so that's just if you find ways to open up a conversation there's you can always look for something and if you want to be approached try to wear something then could also lack of outfit was the seal you become invisible or you become part of the background as wearing like. Let's say a collegiate sweatshirt from your from your. I don't know from where you got your masters. Were from your Mom's colleague or whatever it could be right that's a great way to for someone else to come up to you and be like wait. You went to. Did you go to miss you. So i think this is a great time to mention that i used to go out to bars in the marina wearing three foot tall pink flamingo. Hot there you go. That would open up. The conversation of amazing did women come up to you all the time with it. Yeah it was really fun. We didn't mystery where like the yeah seattle league. Your inner was my inner goofball really because it was basically saying. I don't give a fuck. I don't care what you're supposed to wear. I'm just having a good time and it's a station start. Is i had a whole drawer full of hot think. That's the end of the day. Like just give people excuse to talk to you exactly. And i will say and just to be fair because you guys can't see josh josh. How how tall are you. Okay so you're you're ready going to be getting attention wherever you go. Plus maybe even other. So i would say that for those of you who may not be as tall as josh is harder to get a larger they still. I'm but you can find other ways of wearing something carrying something that could open up that conversation or maybe advice for jason. Where something like if he added bus driver. He doesn't have to be reactive. Could still be proactive. To but if he had something that he was wearing you could even he started. The combo could give someone something bounce back. I bet i've definitely seen collegiate sportswear year. Like a hat or a sweat show really why night anytime i see someone for boston. Ugly taught them. If i'm interested or not doesn't matter it doesn't matter if i see someone wearing like a qalhat i'm always like go bears the city. There's like a million of us doesn't matter and for jason that all that stuff works and it makes it easier but the backup plan to go back going back to being truly authentic is if you were to walk up to this girl at the bus stop and told her exactly what you were thinking. Fully being honest that would work to for example going up through and saying. Hey i know this may seem a little weird a stranger coming up to you at a bus stop but i saw you from down the road or whatever and i thought you were really pretty and wanted to come and say hi. That's true it's not game. It's not align its. I assume what he was thinking and by being completely honest and straightforward. Girls will appreciate that. I love it because it's complimentary. It's also not you're basically assert yourself as a non creep which is like the main concern that have. That's great awesome. Okay those are great. Takeaways and jason keep us updated on what happens at the bus. Stop okay thank you so much josh telling us the story i'm going to get the perspective from nagin one of these days i can get her company. Yeah let's plug megan's company is called meet foxy so if any of you are looking to use utilize her dating coaching services. It's meet foxy dot com. That we don't. We don't need fix that. Fox e that whole group idea the workshop doing the workshop and then actually going out in real life to bars.

01:00:03 - 01:03:26

that's music. i learned stuff out. I knew at all. I don't yeah don't it was. It was very enlightening for sure. Awesome okay and then listeners if you want to hone in on your communication skills or even just dating skills definitely cap. Megan and her husband josh over the flamingo. Just lend it out. That could be your to do business. Lending conversation starter gear. My god this sky. remember in. He's valley had like a lull he. Yeah tiny and. I've never seen more women smartest guy i was like. We should start a business run. Pigs rents puppies here in san francisco smart so smart. It is smart. Although it's kind of a little like. I know douchebag he s so i was at a cafe on attention exactly goes going back to authenticity and intentions. I was at a cafe with our friend. chris wilson. Who's been on the show. And i went in to get coffee. And he was outside with my dog mo jo and i came out and literally. Three girls were hovering around him. What's his name. What kind of breed is he and. It was just so natural. Because chris could be like. That's actually not my dog. My friend is in there getting coffee. But i'm guessing you like some sort of lhasa apso. But i would love to get a dog of my own and then it really just opens up conversation so if anybody wants to rent mojo for the day i have to vet you. I but i'm willing to do that all right. And also we're still looking for guests for season six and season seven if you like guests on her show just reach out to us and allow. We'll wrap this up. Now stay dateable. Your action item for this week is to go out in public and devote one hour to talk to as many people as possible now. Not just talk to them. Find different ways of opening up the conversation and keep it authentic. This episode is brought to you by hired club. We're friends help. Friends find jobs you guys. We all know how challenging it is to find a new job but higher club makes it easy. you can post a job or refer a friend for one. You can also get career. Coaching with professional career counselors to improve your resume. Increase your salary. We're practice interviewing and more join today at higher club dot com. If you know already. We have a revamped website with articles videos and content. All about modern dating you can also find our premium water series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We've had some great feedback. About how actionable these episodes are so. Check them out on our website or itunes music also visit the site today to see the latest about coaching for we connect you with dateable approved experts to help with everything from dating profile reviews coaching and even gathering real feedback about your dating style in a personalized and affordable way to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe an auto download the podcast on itunes. Or your favorite podcast player. So you never miss an episode.