S5E9 Love + Money

00:00:03 - 00:05:08

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connect like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And then they'll match you in small groups of sixty eight at a brunch spot in san francisco get a free entry into brench now by signing up at five hundred brunches dot com and using the code date able everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable. Show all about modern dating and when we talk about modern dating finances seemed to come up as something we talk about with our friends but couples don't necessarily talk about the the really important financial questions right and i personally have. I'm really uncomfortable talking about money. I don't know about you julie. I'm like just uncomfortable talking about anything like splitting and like who's responsible for what so today. We're going to get to the bottom of it. All we have joe guebuza here. He's the founder of gaza wealth management and financial advisor sent two thousand two. He manages asset accumulation protection and distribution via wealth management strategies. How's everyone doing out there. You look super credible. Because you have a blazer on and pants so anna a black binder anna black niner. You pleaser and pants and a binder. You're pretty legit. Show you without pants but didn't get the memo and for anybody curious. How do we record these episodes. Were actually on the floor without our shoes. It's just like one of those situations a superset. We try to keep it casual and fun. So that's where we're at but let's talk about money. I wanna read the statistic really quick. According to citibank fifty seven percent of divorce. Couples cited money problems as a primary reason for the demise of their marriage. Joe what do you think about that. It doesn't surprise me actually. Forty percent of couples before marriage. Don't even talk about money. So people get to certain point in their leadership where they kind of build up all the stress and then it comes out and comes out as an argument. Because there's been no one's really any framework until then so yeah that doesn't surprise me at all. So why do you think people. Don't wanna talk about it. What what is it about money. That makes equal uncomfortable growing up. I feel like people have told us our whole lives that you don't talk about what money in religion call it s and and that's part of it but i think that we have to give ourselves a little bit more credit insert to observe and you know discover. What people's goals are. And maybe we're not doing such great job doing that. Identifying and setting goals early on. I think if you set goals early on get aligned than maybe that fifty. Two percent of people could have had a better outcome. I guess issue when it comes to saving money. Is that when you first start dating someone. Their money is their business. My money is my business. At what point does their money become mind businesses. Well exactly and that's pretty much a feeling. Isn't it at in the beginning. You're dating someone and guess what that person that you're dating owns all their own bad habits yet. I own all of my bad habits. And i own my good habits and they own all their good habits but at some point in a relationship. You're getting serious. You kinda have to identify a point where you say if we're gonna get serious and this is gonna go any further than i might need to observe some sort of habits that this person has and maybe bring up a couple of topics because it doesn't have to be the money conversation doesn't have have to happen. All at once right can be brought up subtly in so. It's not really a subject that you just blurt out unless you really know each other which is fine because some people actually do that. Yeah but like breaking the ice. It wants you ring it then you can bring up anything. There are generally break the some ways that you would suggest like to someone if you're just starting to date someone some ways to like kind of scope it out without being overtly obvious so my recommendation for people are just starting today.

00:05:08 - 00:10:13

Someone is only to observe their habits. When you find out you actually want to be with somebody. It's starting to get serious saying. Wow i can actually have a future with merson. Cuss where things are starting to turn. Maybe open yourself up reveal something about yourself and tell them a little bit about you. Add given examples to clients maybe casually in conversation bring up something about. Oh i kinda update my budget today or nine enrolled in my 401k or a increase my contribution to my 401k. Bring up the topic casually in see kinda Aches if they're like what's a 401k or they're interviewed survived two couples bring up money at least when they're dating it's either in terms of they have an abundance of it where they have a lack of it. So it's kind of like. I got a promotion today or i'm so broke. But nobody talks about their money management with each other which is kind of important to talk about. I think it's super interesting. Is people especially women. Always judge men based on their light job in like how much they can all of that but they don't think about like their habits and it's not just how much you make but it's like you're earning potential and how you actually spend that money. Will you nailed it right there. It's it's all about the mindset and that's the key to the formula in my opinion when you're talking about goals as a couple goals that have or are product of any tarp type of money and mindset. You really need to know where the person stands in terms of income and savings in debt but most importantly what their mindset is because if they know how to budget for not running up thirty or forty thousand dollars on their credit card making the minimum eight or eighty thousand. Or whatever depends on where you're at my right if if they're not coming into relationship with those hurdles than maybe you can really build together and not to say that by the way someone can't overcome that to be able to be on active gotta be able to commit to a plan and align goals with you so before we go into money rehab. What are some red flags that people can pay attention to in terms of what. You're saying mindset behaviors in the beginning clearly don't want to be with someone who's balancing or Getting their credit card declined at. It's it's it's it's just a sign of were money-management okay and it happens to everybody. I get it at some point in their life and hopefully it's not the one time you're taking out this amazing person and you're so stressed out you forget to pay your credit card bill all my goodness and by the way you spent three hundred dollars instead of eighty dollars because is having such a great time and it just puts you over. I get that that happens. But if it's becomes like a consistent thing we're or if somebody's borrowing money from you or they just seem to be leaning on you quite a bit early on me really does that. Most people lights go into relationships standing on their own so those are some red flags early on. I think one other thing lake. You could also observe. Have their spending money on you a especially from a man to a woman usually it's not the reverse so it's harder not case but like the moment. It sounds like amazing ongoing on all these fancy trips. I'm doing all this stuff gas if someone can support that and that's great but there's also a chance that they're racking up debt doing that type of stuff. Have these two friends. They're married to each other but when they were dating. She was very much enamored by the way he was spending on her. He would take her out to elaborate. Dinners elaborate theater shows by her gifts and after they got married she ended up having to help him pay for his debt because not only was he wining and dining her but he also was wining and dining the women before he met her after that after they got married she ended up paying for debt. So i actually hear the story happening a lot where couples don't know each other debt situation and they get married and they're like wait. You're fifty thousand dollars in the hole and a have to help pay for that. How do you bring up. You talked about debt. Okay how do you bring that up. It's pretty much same way. you reveal. Just reveal yourself. I and depends really on where the relationship is. If you're early on you reveal yourself but before you get married if you're not willing to put everything out on the table there might be a problem so if you are so serious anything marriages in the future.

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Maybe you're engaged. Maybe you're not but you're serious at the end of the day. Why shouldn't you be able to say. Hey let's set a date. I need to know about a few things. Yeah yeah have a drink have a cocktail and just laid out. I've noticed that student debt is the least sensitive jet for about. That's actually a good way to bring up debt. I just played paid off the last of my student loan bills. It's like an accomplishment. I i have no more debt. What about you are. Do you have any student loans that you're paying off right. Yeah it's it's a good way because people aren't as sensitive about right sure absolutely because it's it's common to get have someone that as student debt means we all get through school right. Maybe it comes down to like conversations about being spenders or savers to like how you actually manage that money that's the mindset that's the mindset you're absolutely mindset. Yeah are you the type of person who has to put away a little bit each month from your from your paycheck or are you the type of person who likes to spend to the max right. It might be you. Just spend your whole paycheck nearly paycheck to paycheck. Or you're in debt. It doesn't it could be either of the either or and a good way to bring that up is that i've seen people bring their parents. All my parents are major savers which is true. My parents save. And i feel like you're not enjoying life as much because they are saving so much. How do you feel about that. What are your thoughts on that. So yeah i've i've heard that quite a bit. I feel like for some reason. Generations are a little bit different than their parents generations. Definitely many people out there will take their parents Strategy stride and kind of go with it but then a lot of a lot of them will say well. My life is different e asses. The way i'm gonna live it. I think i consider myself a saver. But i also don't like save to the max that i'm not enjoying life My parents allen's seed to the max so it could be like an opener that like. Yeah i inherited this trait from my parents. But i also saw how it like was a disservice to them just have more fluid conversation definitely something that has to do with weight where people are in the world. I mean everybody's got these fixed costs right. We roof over at will have to get off the e. We have to do certain things. We've got our variables especially with your parents. You got children arrays. Right children raise being single in a big city or a small city. You know we definitely have to have a roof over head to eat but we have some leeway here. i mean. I don't know if you guys know but to raise a child. These days is two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars. Raise a child Iro to eighteen years old fucker. Homey two hundred three thousand point though it's like in a big city though like someone might not have much savings but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're like not equipped long-term like. Unm could get together. And you guys can move somewhere. That's more financially affordable and like have a different lifestyle. So i don't know if you can like necessarily judge people solely unlike savings in like the hard stats anymore. I guess we can't really judge people at all when you're just dating them because you're not combining your lives yet. So what are some ways that we can make our own financial situations. More robust go. Here's a thing. Money and having a great job and being a hard worker are part of the formula but it's entirely superficial so the main key is that you have to have the mindset that's-that's what's not superficial right so you have to have the habits good habits the okay. Guess what. I pay all my bills and a have a little bit safer my emergency find and i could a little bit towards my retirement and guess what i can go to concerts and travel a little bit as well because i've got all of that balanced elderly. So what's most important is not really the job in the money but it's the minds we because you could lose it all tomorrow communal wiley judging someone by their occupation and all that doesn't mean anything it's all like how they manage it and i think your point which i agree with you want someone that's financially responsible. You gotta do it yourself.

00:15:01 - 00:20:05

Yeah can't expect someone to save you. So what are some of those. Good habits of. We should be practicing. The number one thing is everyone should have a budget. Everyone should know monthly annually at monthly. Okay abs- yeah you're gonna have unexpected expenses. No matter what everyone does in so you take out your budget. Monthly figure out what your costs are and in your budget. You should be trying to achieve a savings A savings account. I should say that is equivalent to six to nine months of all of your expenses so if you know what your budget is for your month right with your expenses. Multiply that between six months. That's your minimum that you should have. That's not going your seems. I've always heard earnings your six months of your earnings but you're saying six months of your expenses right invest. Imagine makes sense. If you lost your job yeah. Could you support yourself having that savings account empowering oh totally you have to take. The next job becomes your way. I wanna go back to time allocation. How do you feel about. 'cause people always complain dating so expensive going on dates. Expensive women are like. I have to get new dresses and make up and all that men are like i have to pay for the drinks and dinners. Should people be allocating money in their budget for dating absolutely and how much of annual income monday to that that should be a portion of their entertainment in california. I can't really give you a percentage because he have to know what they're fixed costs are going to be. How much what are the things that you have to meet. You have to pay rent you have to pay your mortgage right one of the other. You have to eat you. Have you have certain things you have to pay for figure out in your budget with those things that are must have right and then see what your variable costs are and then him to make some adult decisions you know. Do you want to go to the baseball game with your buddies or do you wanna allocate a little bit more entertainment money to a date with you know this amazing woman you bet. What do you want to do so those that's where the adult decisions but at the end of the day. No matter what you decide it should be that you've met your budget. You've cleared through month with hopefully a little bit of savings in your in your in your budget. This is one of the complaints that i just cannot stand hearing which is cheating so expensive i feel like i you know. I always like spent so much money on dating. I'm like then you should stop going on. All these dates go nowhere. I think people need to be smarter when it comes to dating and spending money on dates. Don't go out on a date with everyone that you match with online. You know people need to be more selective and winter. Entertainment budget runs out. Stop going hyundai's fairy do more like well. This could be a double edged sword. Because you don't want people think that you're have no money. They could do more cheaper like coffee dates or park dates as the initial date. And then once they're like someone you want to invest in step it up but then you run into issues people thinking your broker. You're suggesting that one. I'm just going to throw this out there because we're talking about money dating but at the end of the day we're not really dating someone for their money right because again hope not. That's that's more of a more of a superficial thing but you can get creative right and you can do whatever you have to do In terms of like having fun and getting to know somebody is. That's what really that's what seatings power right right is like gauge another personality. Games another mindset. And i i've gone on and so i'm engaged right. You forgot to mention that we have no problem going out to buy dinner but we choose sometimes like taken urban hike or go beyond you make the japanese tea garden ride or make dinner or all these other fun fun rives of dating experiences and and early on and by the way these these types of dates shouldn't be just early honor or in the first few dates forever. Because you know you have to have that sort of balance you have to be able to. You know do the creative stuff right and maybe we'll it hopefully be able to do like goodwill charity event. Friday maybe buy something off the off the silent auction block or or just go out and have a good dinner birthday arish wes.

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But isn't it interesting that dating and then relationships in the beginning with dating you want to shower each other with as many you know impressive things as possible in the once. You're in a couple hood you are trying to find ways to save money together right. It kind of goes like that in the beginning you wanna overspend and then once you're comfortable with each other okay. The people of any to impress. Yeah in the beginning but then when they're in a couple hood it's kinda like invest together so let's talk about that now. We're we're if someone in a relationship with two people in relationship and they're talking about and thinking about a future together. What are some ways that couples can handle their finances. I know there's join accounts separate accounts. What do you suggest right. Well you know just going back to when we first starting of course we want a court you know. of course. of course we do and have a good time in greenwich. Try not be for me personally. I'm going to try. Not at boring saver is. I'm a financial adviser notice. What going have a lot of fun. But i'm gonna try and mix it up but later on down the road you know. There's these common goals at have to be addressed. You know who wanna do for the rest of our life. We just gonna continue like it would've made us on a whim or or or what so probably knots. Probably not what about spending habits. You have the same. Should you and your partner have the same spending habits. The savers savers work while vendors expanders. Yeah so this kind of goes all together for one. Most most couples will compromise right. You can kind of bring it in a little bit but a saver is going to get super frustrated with someone who's a spender. Yes they're gonna feel like they're just being irresponsible and a spender is gone span and just feel like the savers boring and there's going to be a conflict you have if you can't come to a conclusion than than it might not work out but guess what hoeing things together doesn't have to be fifty fifty by the way. If you're aligned with your goals you can make it seventy thirty depending on. Maybe somebody makes more money. And they don't care they wanna go spend money but in terms of like a joint account and how finances are dealt with. I don't know if i mentioned this before. But forty two percent of people that have to an accounts also have individual accounts and the traditional way of having a joint account or when you get married right the traditional way is to just bring everything together. Yeah and that kind of gives people comfort and it's a symbol of unity with i understand but today's environment we have then mo pay pal. All sorts of different ways like cringe. When i see my friends demoing their husbands or their makes me crazy. I just don't get it but also from very traditional household where i think your income should just have a joint account but in today's environment like you're saying what's happening is like as we get married later in life we feel like we really earned that money. We made before meeting that person. So when you join accounts it's kinda like well you didn't make you didn't earn what you didn't really deserve what i made in the last thirty six years and that i've i've also had friends who have assets and they have real estate or they have inheritance and once they get married they have a hard time saying well. This is also my husband's this is also my wives. What do you have to say about that. Well i think you should do a whole segment on if i married. Should i then mo my spouse dinner. I wanna know no not not is having enough that works with a couple that works right. No but there's also the more modern way where if you find a goal you get a goal you determine what your goals are basically the beneath your living together right and you're renting you have rents a pay and you have groceries and pg knee in cable and all those little things. Maybe it's not such a bad idea to set up a joint account and put up a little bit of money every month. That accounts start for joining expensive version expenses. Exactly and once you've met all of those than you have your separate accounts which is seems to be the way things are going these days just out of curiosity. Here's a question. You have joint account with all your joint expenses. I wanna take you out to dinner for your birthday.

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Where does that money. Come out of joint account or my account. That's definitely a personal preference. My fiance and i pay for from her own accounts. If it's like treating the other person exactly. I'm sure it works. I mean every couples different. How they figure out things how they make it. Work is very different. But what are some common problems you see in couples who come to you at some the conflicts that they see that. They didn't really see early on in their relationship. Yes sometimes it's just really hard to align the goals in how to achieve them and so they come to me and they say you know this is what we wanna do. These are goals one of house. Who wanna have kids This is what we make. How do we go about it. And so they come to me to determine what their goals what. Their goals are financially. Because we'll set them up with what the averages are what they exactly what they specifically wanted to do. And then we'll determine what they want other things are like just keeping them on target budgeting and we've talked about this before a little bit but how to make important financial decisions and some of them swan a roadmap they lose. Wanna come in like get a financial plan and taking on their own. A lot of them want hand holding so in those times what we do. Is we set up everything for them and we just kind of dictate. Hey this we need to do. I know your situation. Let's get everything structured and it turns out to be where the same age everything's automatic. So bank accounts your paycheck going. Certain accounts and things are paid so it could be that easy but some people just want the roadmap. Has anybody ever come to you and said we're really facing this problem now but we didn't realize this was an issue. I it's more like one. One one partner definitely knows there's an issue and they want you give a picture to their other partner. Would it looks like people are on the same page. So they're they're they're coming one. One is a saver. One's a spender. Right they come in and they. We put all the information together for them. We present it in a financial plan. In then both sides can see exactly really stands. Yeah and also. I think it's important to to talk about how everything is relative so in spending habits. You may be a saver in your own mind right also be a spender relative to your partner. It's not one of the other like there's there's spectrums of the whole thing. I'm assuming absolutely so. How can we we have some tactics. Obviously your goals need to be aligned. I think the goals discussion is something that can happen earlier on in a in a relationship that doesn't have to be financial goals. But you know people talk about. I want to be married with kids in a house. Get fired seven years. You wanna be in five ten years and that could be part of that discussion of. How are we going to finance this right right. What are some really sensitive areas that people have a hard time talking about with you owe income in debt easily. Those the first two. Yeah okay yeah. And i know that. They're very sensitive subjects subjects because people don't necessarily want to talk about how much they racked up if they have what at the end of the day. You have to start from somewhere so nobody should be embarrassed by by the way. Yeah you're starting from today when you're creating your financial plan and creating your goals. What you do is find out. This is how much. I have the much income i have. This is my starting point. This is not my ending point. So this is what i'm working off of. Let me knock down my dad. Let me increase my income. There's multiple ways of doing all of that so i'm sure we're not going to go into here but you need to gain plan. You needed game planning. Get your mind around your your financial situation. In order to be maybe confident go out in unopposed question to you before we go into takeaways. So i find this very culturally different than what i grew up with. I'm born and raised in china in china. If you want to date you have to. I present your pay stubs of how much you may you have to own a house and you have to own a car for men for men. So this is why. There's an issue in china now because real estate so expensive cars are so expensive that there's a lot of single men because they don't have these basic requirements but know for they argue that rather find this out in the very beginning.

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Then start dating them having feelings for them and realizing that we can't really bill that live together when you think about that. Just get it all over with in the very beginning. I'm gonna refer back to what we said before. I think that's i think that's amazing number one but i also think that all that stuff can be superficial because you can lose your job you can lose your house view bankrupt. You can lose all of these things that you've done but do you have the mindset to continuously month after month after month structure your life structure your budget so that you can be successful and by the way if somebody uses all of that most people that know how to structure their lives in budget will bounce back they can make it again they can make it again get totally bites. If you're a super big risk taker and you're taken on so much debt and you're just like you know throwing spaghetti at the wall to see with sticks. Generally that doesn't work very well. So you gotta know who you're getting involved with our always the person responsible with their assets right. That's my honestly like we're gonna take ways. That is my biggest take. It's all about the mindset. It's all about like scoping out what's up gold to someone in a priority to them because someone might not be thinking about having children and a family and hang house and whatever may be. You're building a life with another person. They may be so in the now and like that might not work for you. So it's like making sure that you're on the scene age and it's not that one is right or wrong. It's just a personality in what they want out of life. Yeah and i think also when you have financial disagreements with your partner. It's more of a symptom of misaligned versus like people citing that as the number one reason for divorce. Actually it isn't. It's part of a deeper issue. Which is your goals aren't aligned right so we have to define goals relationships even early on when even we just start dating someone. It's good to know what their five year plan. Looks like or what. They wanted to light what they want out of light on. How more importantly how they plan on getting their anybody can say. I want a million dollars in a horse and a car level. But how how are you actually going to get there my second takeaway is mindset mindset you keep mentioning mindset. It's actually slowly making sense to me. Now it's a h-have for that you can train your mind to do and it's not that you have to already be born with us mindset but what is the mindset you ideally want to happen when it comes to your finances and it's also good to know what your partners mindset is and the third takeaway which is related. Is that where we are financially. We shouldn't be judging someone for their current status because we're all works progress just like we are mentally works in progress so where someone stands. Today financially is not as important as where they want to be in the future. So it's more pointed not so much a judge them for maybe not having a job or not having this hauser car but where do they wanna be how they play our debt. Like if they have it like. It's not that they're bad person. They're not someone you date. It's like how they plan to get out of it if they disclose it all the data. That's also applies to people who are very financially robust to know. You can't say well. This person seems very well off right. Now they're going to be this way in five years they also need a plan. Everybody needs a plant. The goes for anybody who's who's lacking or they haven't abundance all right while i'm going to start getting my finances in order it's all about mindset. You don't actually rather tactic that i have done recently. That has been helpful is to lake for a week. See where you're spending money like. I realized how much money spending like starbucks like cut down on area aren't as like important where i realized these reoccurring subscriptions i had and i literally cut like four of them. It's really helpful just to see what's going all being actor yes not even judging or making Like from is just seeing then. Yeah i i put myself on a one hundred dollar budget per week route three times a year just set just to just do a house.

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He can still do it just to get myself back into anymore frugal. Yeah and that doesn't include of course it doesn't include like f course gotta pay my mortgage and all that but at the end of the day like i don't need to spend we all go out to dinner and spend forty bucks on sushi. You're asking that at least miserably. Try and eats with one hundred dollars. Wow that's it for whole week Girth raise yeah now. Just have you heard of soil island. I literally do for myself just to just to ground myself. And it's a great. That's a great tactic. I feel like unsal like a recommendation. do now. Now that's a good exercise for sharing. And if you're like i agree. Defied what works for them but just like be more conscious. I think the other thing too. It's like thinking about the future the When you're in the now it's like but if you do want that stuff like think about say feel like i've always been financially responsible but after this conversation i just realized i never think about the future. I'm very reactive. So i just save or i spent a save where i spent vice mobile too much. I saved but i don't think about like what am i saving four. What is my five year plan. Where three year plan or one year plan Back to your tactic though my ex-boyfriend York used to do a hundred dollar weekends so the two of us with one hundred dollars for the entire weekend to live on and it ended up being a really fun exercise because then we got really creative with who do as a couple yeah. I've got some rain. Cisco urban hike urban hikes are the ass the best anti The city is seven miles across. Anybody can walk seven miles right and just do it. There's a crazy of things do seven miles and you know what else you should be doing when you do. Urban hike. Listening to our podcast. It's a great way to kill. That has good while you're at it's www dot go dot com thing. You could save your exercise on alert all about everything addtional adviser and say get started after that. You'll just be a better version of yourself. Why wouldn't you do it. I feel but on a serious note. If people do find you can go to. Gaza dot com correct a. v. a. z. z. I love that last time. And we'll link tear pages laos confined to our listeners mentally go feedback even and we also want to hear how people do their own finances with their partners. I'm so this is such an interesting top. Everyone has their own tactics. What works for you want to hear all about it. And of course we want to have you as a guest on her show. Our listeners can always anonymous you to protect your identity blah blah blah you per the whole spiel but again we will have to have you as a guest on our show. Thank you for coming on our show. We really appreciate it. I hope this gives people inspiration to take hold of their finances and take control of their future on that note. Stay vo your action. item for this week. Is the thing about all of the financial pain points. You faced either your previous relationships or in dating identify these areas and figure out a plan to address them earlier. Next time you are faced with these pain points you some of joseph vice which includes observing spending habits asking the right questions and communicating their financial goals. So for example. If the major pain point for you is your partners debt that you find out about way too late. Then it's important to bring up the issue of dead earlier in dating in a way that's kosher of course such as you bring up that maybe you just finish your student loans. For example i want to celebrate in the see. How the person you're dating the axe to that. If you didn't know already in our off season we launched a premium series called the y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We've had some great feedback on. How actionable these episodes are so. Check it out on our website under the tab why series or you can now buy directly from is music. The most efficient way to meet new people is a combination of online. And offline five hundred. Wrenches has your offline covered connect over brunch with new friends. Come alone or bring a buddy. There's always a table. Full of friendly faces mimosas and eggs benedict sign up at five hundred branches dot com and use the code date able for free entry to connect with us visit dateable.

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