S2E9 How far would you go for love

00:00:00 - 00:05:00

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. This episode of dateable is brought to you by one z date and event planning company dedicated to bringing cool people together. And you're just unlock. Their next event will be june. Eighteenth with dateable podcast as a special guest. We will be recreating the dating game. Live on stage. Get your tickets today. By searching the words onesie party on event bright or by going to our website at dateable. Podcast dot com. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. A show that opens up a candid conversation about dating in san francisco and that very beautiful lovely always have a beautiful lovely voice. Just tell me ugly voice for once. Let's that voice. you just heard. That was really hard on the ears. Unfortunately i'm sorry to say everyone. That was my partner. You way and that very creative introduction of my terrible voice is michael vargas. Did you notice my voices back though. I'm no longer marge. Simpson so for those of you. Who are listening. You can't see this but we have a full house in the studio right now. We have a lot of people watching and listening. You may be hearing like just a little bit of commentary from people left and right so on each episode we dissect dating story. And that little giggle. You just heard comes from our friend. Xavier eggs abeer everyone. What is your dating story. It starts when i was hanging out with my ex-girlfriend actually to she. She made me promise to do something without talking to me about it and she just said. Give me your word. You're gonna do whatever i tell you after this and so i said real quick. What she you're at the time she was my ex at the time you trust her. I said okay. Strap on come in. And she says. I did this life coaching program. I want you to do it. And i said okay. This sounds really weird. And then i went and did it. And i went from kind of cocky asshole to alaska castle. After i went through this program the landmark it was a landmark program so i went through an experiential training learned about myself and my emotions and then i went back for three months and learn how to coach it and so i became a life coach and one of the trainings that i went back to coach girl came in and she comes in. Her name is jen. And i immediately was connected to her. For some reason and She coincidentally was brought into that environment by another life coach and so she chose to be in my group and it was like an instant attraction it was something about it was energy right and she would for. It was weird like we would. I'd be watching her and she would tell me later that she could feel watching her. It was one of those things. It was very weird canoe. Her for a week in person that was it and i felt really connected to her so we stayed in touch a week later. She moved to china and her boyfriend. Who was the other life. Coach was going to move with her boyfriend. Yeah they were together and this is another guy that was my peer and i kept in touch with her and we started skyping and i fell in love with her like before. I even dated her. You fell in love over skype. Yeah i did without ever having touched her. Yeah without ever having dated her or been in a private environment with her and for me it was that after my last relationship and after having learned the tools and skills that i did i decided that i was going to go all in when i found the right thing i was going to go all in and i wasn't going to hold anything back. I was going to put my heart on the line and see what happened. I tell her this over skype and listen. I'm falling in love with you and this can't keep going. I can't be your friend. It's one of the other and you're with this guy so you gotta decide. And the next day she called me and said she broke up with him and so the day after that i decided to move to china. I'd quit my job here.

00:05:00 - 00:10:03

I was working for a big consulting company. And i put a notice. I said i'm just going to do this. See what happens. Wow we try to way. Is uncharacteristic of you always the that's savior sister talking right there. He always had a direction in his life is over him to take such divergent. Attorney was was crazy. The family thought. I was crazy. I right the life coach going off course basically all right interesting the same tone. I was following my heart for the first time in my life and aside. Just go for it. So i decided to move to china where antenna we were going to move to beijing but we ended up to shanghai. We ended up moving to beijing. The first day i get there two months later after not having dated her. We move into her uncle's house with her family there together on day one. I know this is gets better so we move in on day one together and we realized that the same thing you'd expect to realize we're very far apart from where we thought we were obviously right but we were already all in both of us were all in and the my thought was if two people can go all in and get committed to each other from the start then it can work regardless of who they are where they come from like. You can make that work if you're committed completely completely agree. That's what a commitment is. That's what i thought shattered so we live together for six months in china and realized we're very far apart. I didn't want to be in china anymore because of other factors right like it was the air quality in beijing. Like i couldn't breathe. I couldn't go anywhere in the language so it was great while i was there but i decided to come back and she came back with me and so we ended up living in the bay area. for a year together but when we came back right when we came back six months and she told me that she's not a monogamous person and that she wants to be. She knows that at some point she's going to be with other men. And at that point i was in love with this girl and so i had a decision to make was do i get recommitted and try and see what happens in my open enough and confident enough to do this for a person that i am in love with or not and i decided to do it so we decided to be an open relationship. Six months in it came from her wanting to be but ultimately we both did it. I mean if if i was going to be in that situation i was gonna do it too. It's like it wasn't because i really wanted it but it was. I felt like it was the best way to protect my heart in a situation where i could get really hurt if i felt like it was equal. At least i had that right. That was the logic so for those other months of knowing her. She never told you she didn't tell me that and she didn't tell me up front which is fine. I mean she told me when she told me and it was part of her process. And i get it. It was my choice to stay with her right so i did. And then we went through the motions right. We started going through this thing. And i was the one that actually step outside of the relationship i and it was fine and then as soon as she did it. This well of jealousy came up from inside of me like really vicious jealousy. Ugly stuff and. I didn't realize that i had that. It me right in the process of dealing with that and understanding that women are not my possession to have in a relationship that a relationship is not possession and that partnership is not possession actually helped me to become a much better man and partner myself so going through those emotions actually put me in a position. Where unless my partner dies at some point in the future. There's nothing i can go through that. I couldn't handle like actually prepared me to to be ready for anything and everything that happened. Infidelity wasn't a problem anymore as long as weren't lying to each other right as long as we're honest and open could be together with whatever happened right. It was us against everything else so the first time she i liked your words stepped out of the relationship. How did find out. Does she come to you and she told me i knew i knew i questioned her. Because i knew what i could see it. We were so close. You tell you or did you question her. I questioned her about it. Because i could see it. I could see something happened. Something was different and asked her like. Did you hook up with somebody this weekend. She's she told me. Yeah and she told me what happened. I instantly went to. I'm not good enough as a man because she wanted somebody else. And it was a sense of self worth. It was a self worth thing like i. I can't be who i need to be for you to be happy right. That was the first reaction. And when i learned over time is happening more and more is that. That's not it at all. It's like one what i think now. Is that one person. Can't be everything to anybody like. You actually need to have those experiences with other people. In order to be healthy as human. I think right biologically psychologically physiologically all the ways right. You need to have those experiences with other people and so going through. That actually helped me to learn that. Even though i had all the tools skills and i knew how to interact with people and coach people that forcing myself to go through.

00:10:03 - 00:15:02

That was actually the best thing that could have ever done so fast. Forward a little bit. So we're in. We're in oakland. Were experiencing this stuff. I'm going through the most powerful emotions i've ever experienced in my life like the strongest love and the strongest jealousy at the same time. We decide that we want to go to new york together so we go to. New york moved to new york out of san francisco. Yeah and we get a spot like this is not worth. It said the see that hangs in my brother said none of my whole life were also very close and i knew on some level that it wasn't working but i thought that i could. I can make it work. I i had a hero complex. I thought that i could do whatever i needed to do to be with whoever i needed to be with. Because that's how great i. That's what i thought about myself honestly. Yes it's like pumping they're a little bit. Okay so we're in new york. And i decided that i wanna come back for startup stuff and fast forward another year. We're three and a half years in and she starts developing a relationship with somebody in new york like a real one a meaningful one. An emotional one even when i go back there. It's meaning it's like something that she wants to be a part of. And i realized at that point that. I'm not first of all. I'm not poly-amorous. I'm capable of adapting but the emotional bond is so important to me that that was like the ultimate violation of partnership and i've realized boundaries. I finally learned what my boundary was like. This is it like. I can't do this anymore right so i rip myself out of the situation. One day i just picked up on the flight left. That was it all. My stuff was there. We had an apartment together. We had a live together. I left and i went into the deepest heartbreak that i've ever experienced really strong depressing heartbreak and my sister actually picked me up out of it and it was a year ago and i still feel talking about it and i still feel it angst inside you know but i broke my own heart which is the best thing that i could have done for myself looking back on. It like understanding what. It's like to go through heartbreak and having done it to myself. I was fully accountable for what i did to me. And what i could potentially do to somebody else so now. I'm aware when. I'm dating somebody like all of the triggers that i experienced that i could affect somebody else and so now i feel like i know exactly what i want. Which is the best thing that could have happened on this situation but it took it took stretching myself in every which way to figure that out and so now i'm a year out of that relationship still in with her still love her but capable of living somebody else. Do you guys still talk. Yeah because i want to be friends with her lie. Because i still care about her as a person lie because she was an important part of who i've become she. She helped mold me. Who i am and she knows me as well or than anybody else in this world and so if i can have another ally female that would be honest with me and check me on my future. Relationships should not yet. But i think she can. I have faith in her. And maybe she won't. Maybe she won't. But i still think that like so my ex girlfriend before this we're at that level now it's six years removed. She is like a sister to me. So you convert ex-girlfriends into sisters. Are you know you're stubborn man. What's your sign libra. Did you guys set boundaries in the beginning when she said you know. I'm not a monogamous person. Be honest that's it. It was be honest and be careful like protect yourself. Okay don't bring up. std's or nothing in the house. No diseases and be honest but did she ever warn you that she could possibly enter into an emotional relationship with someone else did. And i didn't know what that meant. And i didn't know if i could handle it at that point i was just processing like okay. Well you're going to fuck other guys and maybe you'll like them okay. Well we'll see what happens right. And in no what i could handle because i'd never tried it before. What do you really see yourself doing about this relationship like three five years from now like in the end. Do you think that this is really going to benefit your future relationships. This is this is not an ex girlfriend. This is a a huge influence on my life. It's like i'm not letting go for a new person that i don't know and it's not that i can't love somebody else. I'm ready to be in love with somebody else but argue that the bigger question. Are you really ready to be in love with someone else. I'm trying to be centered on what happened so you're still processing. I feel like yeah definitely. You're in this relationship for years. And i know for me i let someone for two and a half years and it took me about two and a half years for me to actually move on from it really. She's still in my heart. And i get so i know. He brought up a comment and i grew and not one person can be everything to you.

00:15:02 - 00:20:00

Oh yeah yeah. I like that one. Yeah but a lot of times people in friendships and other people. That aren't necessarily sexual. I am a very sexual person we both are. We're born from heathens. Our parents have just complete yet. They're the worst they do. They really do another adults. Tell us about go out. That's even worse than it's a lot. It's a lot. Apparently your sexual behavior is passed down through genetics. Clearly so for for me personally and is. I think it's the same for her. I want to have sex with more than one person. For the rest of my life. I can be emotionally committed physically committed but at some point i know that i'll i'll be attracted to somebody else. I think that's just being a man. Maybe it is. Maybe it's the of being attracted versus the idea of actually doing something about it. I'm curious is. What are your thoughts on that for me personally. I'm okay what. I figured out about myself from last relationship is i'm okay with somebody having sex with another person. I'm okay with my partner having sex with other men it like it triggers. Something in me. But it's not violating. What i see is partnership so. I actually think it's healthy for me to have my partner doing that me to do it as well but the emotional relationship like having multiple emotional relationship is out of bounds from me. So i don't know if it's possible to have one without the other. But i know that those are my boundaries so i tend to be monogamous guy anyway and i'm completely happy with that and i think at some point maybe twenty five thirty years down the line. Maybe we'll get to a point with my partner that we decide that we want to be with somebody else and like the idea that somebody is open to that is important to me but not necessarily that. They're looking for it one of the things that you really confirmed for me. Which is when a guy loves a girl when a guy loves a woman he will do anything for her he will move mountains for her art wars for her. The second not issue but like the second thought that i'm still processing is one thing is like we can judge other couples because you have no idea what happens behind behind closed doors. You are in a very complicated relationship still even if you're not physically with her you're still somewhat with her intertwined with her my friend. Michelle has something to say. I'm just curious you were talking about if you love. You know a guy girl do anything for her now. You're looking to fall in love with somebody else. What if that somebody else says she you. If you love me will stop talking to her. Nice good question. I think so. There's two things one by fallen in love with somebody else. this is gonna fade from. You know that because it's happened before in previous relationships. That's one thing second is. I'd questioned the premise. Like what what about. This is bothering my partner. Like where's it coming from the jealousy thing you trust me like if those are issues aren't a problem. Then yeah. I love you if it's not if it's not about jealousy and trust anything between us. I'll do whatever i gotta do. Because i'm in love with you right and this is in my past and i love her but i don't need to talk to her anymore because you're my partner but i'd wanna make sure that it was coming from the right place. Is it that you would fall in love with someone and then this relationship with fayed or do you have to let this relationship fade before you can actually fall in love with someone else. Had this conversation with a couple of life coaches friends of mine close friends. And i don't know i mean i think this is gonna fade. Naturally i think until i meet somebody that really excited about. I'm going to hold on to love their. Have the the the last love that i have because i'm a lover. I'm a person that loves deeply. And so i want to be in love with someone and that's the closest thing that i have. You rather love someone who's no longer physically with you not love anybody at all and even with my ex's previously i still love them. I'm not in love with them but they still come to my house and hang out with my family on christmas like we bring them into the family. You prefaces beginning with saying that you did kind of this life life coaching. This really sounds like emotional work. And so i'm curious. How much did that influence this. Do you think that was something that really logically be more open to a situation like this or were you already that type of person like what was the influencing factor for. You was definitely not that person before. I did live coaching. Not at all. It would have been completely off as soon as she told me that. That's exactly what. I was hearing. I was hearing before you are bro. Rose to the degree. And then you have this work and then it kind of opened up something for you. It sounds like you're someone who's very much a lover and then you swing the pendulum all the way to the other side and move all the way to another country for this girl. What are some of your goals. Were your relationship goals. Now what are you hoping to do this year. Some dating a lot. Because i want to meet new people and see what works for me. I'm looking for somebody. That brings out the best in me. And i know what that is because i have my sister and i have my best friend.

00:20:00 - 00:25:06

Those are my boundaries. They bring out the goofy little kid. That's fantastic right and so the these guys are confident. Empathetic funny there am basis. What they're doing critical smart okay. I'm gonna say this to you. I've dated men like you have we dated. I don't know maybe we dated and there's a certain element that i think is really unfair. I know that the guys dated who are like you. We have amazing dates. We bring out the best in each other. But there's always a level disconnect because their heart is somewhere else all right. Let me i now. I gotta defend him. Because i if if you're really willing to give your all then that means you except for the person for where they're at. I mean nobody's going to be perfect the minute you meet them but am i supposed to just wait on your what you're supposed to do is if you really care about this person. Accept it and if you can't accept it then that's on you and then you can't be in that relationship so i'd make this argument. I think guy that's been through some of the things that i've been through and done. The emotional development is more ready even though. My heart is in multiple places than somebody who hasn't really. Yeah because i have the capacity. Now i'd the capacity to love very very deeply and i know what it feels like an. I know how to get committed. When i want to meet the person i'm into everything else stops like i'm in and i'm there and i do whatever it takes because that's what i want to be with you know didn't you also just say that you couldn't be monogamous anymore. So i'm a monogamous person. I think biologically we are supposed to be with other people. So i don't know this is kind of a theoretical thing for me. I think that with the right person. I could wanna be with them for the rest of my life. But i've been opened up the possibility that i want that and potentially down the line twenty years. Be open to the idea that we could be flexible. Is that's when you draft though or got. It became aware she because of her she drove it. She made me aware to it. And having gone through it and i realized why it works for some people and i don't know i mean i don't have the answer to what i'm going to be like in twenty years or five years. Obviously we're not supposed to be monogamous. We should be flicking around and be falling in love with other people. I mean you just should not be with one person for the rest of your life but it comes down to what do you want. Unhappiest in a monogamous relationship. And i actually believe in this notion of being with one person until we're ugly nasty. I believe in that notion. Maybe some people forever be beautiful. Well yeah you're right. I'm asian avi nasty. When i'm eighty but i guess it really depends on individually. What do you want life partner. That brings out the best in me. That i can grow with somebody that is willing to grow with me and on their own together. That's what i'm looking for. I don't need. I don't need to be fucking other women like it doesn't matter that much like i'll probably want to but okay i can pass that on a big deal like somebody that makes me a better. Human is what i'm looking for. I do want to say this to our listeners at home i know nothing about poly-amorous again. I want to learn more. So if you're in a very healthy poly-amorous relationship or your healthy poly-amorous lifestyle love to hear from you Question of the day. I have a question of the day from justin. he says. I'm a serial monogamist to a point where i don't even feel comfortable when i'm single. Is this a problem. And what should i do about it if you're not comfortable when you're single. How can it be comfortable in a partnership. You gotta be whole. I think that yes. You need to be comfortable with yourself and you can really discover yourself with other people through so i think that i mean. That's that's like a big reason. Why we as a society come together is because we grow and we're able to do much more because of the relationships in our lives and i think that's a big part of discovering who you are 'cause it's influence and inspiration and just new ways of being if you have an issue with like you feel like you are co dependent on someone. First thing to do is go get friends. Go get a bunch of if you're a guy go get guy friends. If you're a girl get your girlfriends and spend time with them. Dilute the relationships that you feel like you need in your life. You know one of the things kind of talking about earlier is no one person can be everything so start with getting friends and i think that would help you feel more confident who you are help you feel connected and then look for a relationship. I think friends are necessary. Don't get me wrong. But he's a take a vacation or dislike completely by himself in really with inside he's gonna be on someone right would give its relationship office in san francisco.

00:25:06 - 00:27:02

It's common for people to go. I'm gonna go find myself. I'm going to go to bali every weekend. Someone's in bali fighting themselves. I just read this book called the untethered soul and it's about the five physical senses that we have and then thinking about thought and emotion as senses outside of self so like the concept. What self is and how meditation can help you access in inner self. That's behind everything else. That you experience so i would recommend reading that as a starting point and then seeing how you feel yeah. I think it's just a lot of self awareness to develop more self awareness. I would tall justin to do something really uncomfortable. Like push himself outside of his comfort zone. Go take improv. Classes for one to do really uncomfortable by himself for a bit. Go do peyote. In the desert. I would say go to a sex dungeon and get whipped. The untethered soul journey beyond yourself is by michael. As if anybody's interested all right guys are homed over. Get to submit your stories and remember we can always keep you anonymous because this is not really exhibitor and last but not least stay dateable. Hey whether you're a onesie tuesday Risi or four z. You should be coming out to the ones date party on saturday. June eighteenth at the make out room. Bring your friends or come. Make some new friends and expect a riot of party. And did we mention dateable. Podcast won't be putting on a funny live performance of the dating game. Tickets are twenty dollars for one or two and they're running out fast so get yours today. By searching the words onesie party on that bright whereby by going to our website at dateable podcast dot com.