S2E15 Love Sex and Burning Man with Matteson Perry

00:00:00 - 00:05:11

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

And i move so i loves. We are excited. You've join us for an older episode. While our earlier seasons were all about dating in san francisco we quickly realize all the themes. Learnings are universal for all daters so we shifted to covering dating from all around the world as the seasons. Progress to the fun part. Is things happen. I san francisco the tech epicenter and counterculture capital of the world. We love for you to keep tuning in to our older episodes. But there's no set order to listen in so feel free to jump to more. Recent seasons are relevant episodes for you. Enjoy the show. This episode of dateable is brought to you by five hundred brunches. Five hundred branches connects like minded people with similar interests to meet in real life over brunch. You answer a questionnaire about your interest and how you spend your time. And they'll match you. In small groups of six to eight at a brunch spot. In san francisco get a free entry into a brench now. By signing up at five hundred branches dot com and using the code date able. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show that opens up a candid conversation about dating in san francisco so just so happens that a very popular book about dating called available a memoir of heartbreak hookups. Love and brunch was written by my high school friend. Madison perry and it just so happens that he is san francisco for the weekend to promote his book. I invited him to be a guest on the show. Lucky us here's a quick summary of the book is about what happens when the serial monogamist self-proclaimed nice guy gets dumped by the girl he thought was one. He comes up with the plan. One be single for a year to date a lot of women three hurt. No one's feelings in available award-winning storyteller. Madison perry brings us into the inner sanctum of failed. Pickup lines uncomfortable. Courtships awkward tax and has unexpected journey to self discovery charting the highs and lows of single life in the lessons he learned along the way this episode is hosted by me. I'm you a co-host dateable podcast. Former dating coach new york turned active data in san francisco and addition to our guest madison. You'll hear commentary from my producer julie and grant. Who has madison's friend. And i guess you could call him. His dating sherpa. Grants real name is actually brad. But to be consistent with the book bull refer to him as grant so madison. I feel like your book really documents. Your year of being quite the manslaughter. I mean it was a year of spiritual awakening. Yes slutty is another way to put that. Give us kind of a summary of your book and also why burning man is such a big part of it so the book starts. I was living with a woman. I'd been dating for three years. And she broke up with me and broke my heart. And i'd always been a serial monogamous very quick from serious relationship too serious relationship with little gaps in between and so i kind of felt like i needed to change my dating pattern And right after. I got dumped grant head gone to burning men for the first time and he told me about it In the mini pretty women. There are the fun he'd had there and so it was like. I want to go to burning man but i wanna be single when i go so i can have a lot of weird desert sex and So burning man was like eleven months away at that point. Which would be a long time for me to stay single. I'd never stayed single since. I started dating at eighteen that long and so i just decided. I'm gonna be single there but i don't wanna be celibate for the eleven months so i will date a lot and so i don't dating and casual dating and tried to be up front with people about what i was looking for which was not a serious relationship and so i made it. I made it to burning men. Basically your whole plan started with because you had this really devastating break-up right. You wanted to rescue her. You had the hero complex with her. So that's when you came to the realization that there's a difference between being a nice guy versus a kind guy. I think that there's two sort of aspects that define nice guy for me one. Is you do things out of how it will make people feel about you as opposed to the truth. So that mean you'll stay in a relationship you don't wanna be because they want hurt the other person's feelings you're always putting off the difficult painful thing which only makes it more painful and awkward in the long run and they're also works in the reverse.

00:05:11 - 00:10:06

I feel something was wrong. But i was so worried about what it meant if i got dumped that i like would do instead of actually saying like am i doing this. Relationship is this relationship working is just like how do i make it work. I just need to work harder. Be kinder and it ends up making someone resent you because when they're treating poorly because they don't really wanna be with you and you respond by just being nicer to them. It starts this cycle of like they start to resent you like they've because they feel horrible because they know they're not being a great partner and then but their partner is like being even nicer and like in crisis resentment cycle and in the second part is you know why don't nice guys get girls is times nice is also synonym for shy lake for not being forward for not being honest about your intentions so if you are friends with someone you really want to date them you need to tell them that And not just sit there. And like trying and radiate niceness until they like come over and and have sexually. Yeah and it doesn't mean you know like i'm not a believer in like nagging. We're being you know like the whole or the bad guy or cheating on a girl to to get her to stick around is just. You should ask someone you know. It's that simple of like i. I like you take you on a date. That's something a nice guys afraid to do a because they're afraid she'll say no and then what does that mean about me in be there just like it's it's more of a cowardly. We're sort raised very polite. To women and sometimes insinuating you have sexual attraction to women feels impolite A young guy in high school. It's like i don't wanna. I don't insinuate i wanna do something sexual to you. Because that's insulting to you as a woman And obviously there's crude ways to go about that but it's okay to be attracted to you. I want to go out with you in most people like. Oh great thank you because we learn this podcast. Two guys are always like. How do i get out of the friend zone. I think that's the difference between being a nice guy and being a nice guy who wants to date you. Is that you you make that move. That's beyond friendship. Giving zone is really easy. You just stop being friends with that person. Yeah like either. Want to be friends with them genuinely so you stay friends with them. And then you're just being friends. That's not the friend zone or you stop paying like it's pretty simple thing to get out of the way that you defined nice guy as having a difference to the other person in this situation a nice guy or nice girl when you're trying to do the best to be liked and therefore i think you might sacrifice being genuine and just being yourself and i think niceness in that sense can be unattractive because you're not really presenting anything you'd actually textures who you are presenting this one side. Which is the nice guy and you talk about three cups as someone has to win the breakout in definitely. It's not a good attitude to have. But i think for a lot of people from you the natural attitude of when i got dumped i was really hurt My attitude was like. Don't let her know you hurt. Just move on. Cut out of your life and the problem with winning trying to win the relationship by getting into another relationship very quickly as you're still pivoting off of someone else instead of what you actually want in life. And you're not you know. I think that one thing. I realized this break-up is you can to sort of phases to getting over someone very quickly. After i got dumped. Didn't want to get back together. Like i'd been hurt. I could see now from the outside that it wasn't healthy relationship. But i wasn't over being in a relationship and having that connection and i think that takes time to work through into like sort out what happened in that relationship. What should be different. So when you're trying to win and you just try and get into another relationship improve your okay like you really do have to give yourself time to mourn the relationship. It's okay to be sad. Something's ended even if it was the right thing for it. and so. Let's keep on going down this timeline. The break-up the break-up is what catapults you into this plant. So then you go on and say okay. I'm going to date for a year. This is the plan and you made a list of what kind of girlfriend your ideal girlfriend. With the the sort of conclusion i came to. It's got a little too brainy about it As i talked about in the book but you know that there's these feelings of love that are very easy to easy to know when your love. You just feel your love you. You've fallen hard for someone. In order for a long term relationship to work they also need to be sort of an objectively good partner. And so i think a lot of times in our culture. We're tied like if you feel that. Love everything else's surmountable and so it becomes this weird thing. Where like the less compatible. You are as life partners. The more you're like it feels powerful because you've overcome it like and i i came asian. It's okay to not be with someone you love because they're really unreliable or because they behave in a way you don't like it doesn't mean you like gave up on the relationship it means you made a choice.

00:10:07 - 00:15:02

Because ultimately the passion of the beginning of relationship will fade. And you now. You're going to be if you were there. Your roommate your business partner. They're your co parent. There are there. They're all these things and early in my life. I think i felt good to be the more together person in a relationship. Because you're like the hero. I'm taking care. I'm the fixer. Upper the the wise one. And so i wanted to make this list of traits to try and remind myself when it next time i fell in love with the person going to be a good partner five years from now when you know you're not having sex every day and you're not passionately love and life is hard and i think you need to make this list and it's not like stuff like needs to be over five foot six. Her needs to be a bro. It's like has a steady job You know has a good friend network. You know things that are objective partners you want in someone and if you make the list before you're in love it's can actually be objective but this is a difference between finding someone to date versus finding someone to be a partner and that's something you've come to realize in your thirties i would say thirty is the magical age very different date way differently in your thirties. I wanna go through your list because this is a great list. One has shit together. What does that so basically just has a job. Ideally a career. You know lives in a relatively normal. Living space doesn't have six roommates and just feels like the kind of person that win is not. There's people that are just agents of chaos in this world. There's always something going on and a lot of you can call bad luck but it's like well if you keep having bad luck like something is involved where there's there's people you meet this person just competent. And they're good at their job and someone like that number to low maintenance so this is one thing i realized is a lot of the people i dated. It felt like an part of this is just. We were both young at the time but they made my life harder not easier so if i had an issue i didn't want to go to them because they'll just freak out Or they're having their own freak out. That i need to take care of again. It feels great. Because you're the fixer. They freak out like oh. Let me help you fix that. So maintenance is someone that i know. If i'm going through a tough time. they will. They will they not only take care of themselves. They will step up and take care of me while. I'm mike at low capacity for whatever reason number. Three has long-term important friendships slashed relationships. Yeah i feel like there's i dated a few women who are like they had no friends you know and i feel like i have friends from high school still i have. I've been friends since college. I've friends. I picked up when i lived in new york. Now friends in la. And i think it's important to it's it can be a really good marker of someone that they're still in touch with at least a few people if someone has million ex best friends. It's like why do you keep up like we fall out of touch with people that happens in life but when it around. Some of that seems to have always been having falling outs like i don't have ever fallen out with anyone. You know you lose touch with someone but why reforms are there in the first place in one of my favorite questions on a first date is. Tell me about your best friend. I like to hear about that and guys always get a little taken aback by. You're like whoa. That's a little weird. But okay i'll tell you about my best friend and says a lot of says a lot of your values are also absolutely next one like and love when you fall in love with someone. It's really like it's infatuation the beginning its attraction. And that's just like a compatibility issue that can get masked by sexual attraction infatuation and so. I think it's important to think about like a beer on sunday afternoon. Tests like people. You'd love to just sit on a porch and drink a beer with for several hours and it'd be low key and really nice in your significant other. Should be someone like that. That even if there was no prospect of sexual com- guide. They're going to be there. That's going to be more fun because this person is coming as supposed to. Sometimes people have to goof It's of good. They didn't come to the party with me. Got to handle them and worry about them getting into fight with so and so we'll finish the last one truly respect my partner. Yeah so this. They all kind of like we've together but again. This is for a lot of relationships. I just found like they wouldn't be the first person. I went to with an issue. Because i would. Were there like reaction would make it worse. I didn't want to trouble them. I didn't really think they would have much valuable input which maybe even wasn't true. It's just my perspective. But you should. Ideally be with someone like this out is with my wife now like i have an issue. I'll go tell her about it. Because i know she will. She might not have an actual like solution. And sometimes you don't need a solution but she won't make it worse. Chilly their have a nice solution or help me find a solution inside. Don't i'm not afraid to tell her. This is part of the problem with dating today. Because we in that me versus you mentality. And i think a lot of people try and get validation from the other person but they forget that there is a partnership their partnership relationship or two different things. The list is as building. I tried to say this is a list for anybody. Not these are what i want. These are things that a healthy relationship and person should have.

00:15:02 - 00:20:03

These are objectively positive relationship traits and in addition to this list. I always like making a list of how someone makes me feel the ideal feelings that i want from a partner. I want to feel loved. I want to feel safe. I want to feel respected. I wanna feel. I'm being appreciated. That's always a good list to because then you can go off of your feelings so then you get into this one year of online dating. Yeah i mean. I was totally open to ask him people out in other situations but we when he hit those quotas that i was going for her. Gotta get online dating in the way that you did. It is perfect for that stage in your life. Or you're just trying to figure out what you like and what you don't like yeah. I think that i had really good experiences. But i also because. I wasn't looking for a girlfriend. I felt frustration. That it mostly didn't work out. Whereas i talk about when you go on a first date for online dating. I like to think of it as it's like a predate. You're meeting up to decide if you should go on a date because you can't really know from online. I think we might want to go on a date. Let's meet and then if you're going into that mentality there's no real disappointment go. No i found out that we're not going to go on a date and you have this other strategy called plotting points. Yes how to plot points in a relationship one no more than one day a week at this pace the relationship can remain casual for a long time. Yup that san francisco dating for you number two. You don't make specific plans for the next day while on the current date. Okay number three maintain continuity between days by keeping in touch via tax. Maybe emojis and sure eggplants here and there member for when you do set the date make it. A few days were weakened future further time while confirming interests. Yes the idea is basically that three dates is very different. They happen in five days versus three weeks and exactly so the strange thing about being honest about not wanting to use relationship is if you on a first date or like by the way. I'm not going to marry you. The other person's gonna be like yeah f off. I don't even know if i want a second date. And so there's this grey zone where you're like wind. Do i be fully honest. That isn't presumptuous. That isn't weird because we're still feeling out if we even want to go on a couple dates and so by plotting point sometimes you can communicate without actually having to have the talk like what type of a relationship it is. I i wouldn't ever ghost anyone. I if if someone communicated me. I would always respond but sometimes you just you know. Hey what are you doing this week and you even if it wasn't back i'm busy this week. But how about next thursday. And then now. I've communicated into a certain it's like oh we're not you're not a priority to me and they say why don't want to date someone. I'm not a partner. They mike okay. That's the kind of this relationship this is. This isn't the head over heels. We see each other as much as we can say. We're attracted to each other. Let's hang out sometimes kind of thing and sometimes it's you know it's giving the other person credit of not knowing for sure what they want and saying they're an intelligent human being that can then take stock of what type of relationship this is in responding kind now at a certain point if this goes on a long time you can start to sense if the person's just going along because they really like you and you might need to say you know. Be a bit more vocal and say hey. I just wanted to check in. What are you looking for. Here's what i'm looking for And it's really important to just had a friend you should always instead of saying. Hey what are you looking for. You should say this is what i'm looking for. Is that okay with you because when you ask what are you looking for. The person is like they asking because they want more than what they want less. And how do. I want to respond in kind. It's much better to say. I'm looking for something casual. Does that work for you or i really like this. I wanted to more than casual. Does that work for you. I hope when particularly women read my book it will give them an insight into men's mind that i think when someone isn't interested in our first thing is like what's wrong with me. I'm deficient. he's too good for me. And the honest truth was like when i was in this phase of the book. I don't know if i'd met my wife at the wrong time if we would have ended up together And so sometimes it's nice to just know. Were very easy to be cystic with online. Dating and like for better or worse. It's my fault it's about me when it doesn't work out when really that's a lot of times not the case someone's just sometimes people are too busy to date seriously or they're not interested in or they don't want it and it's much nicer just think like not a match whether it's because of compatibility or timing were not a match. It's not about me when people break up whether it's a short or long-term relationship we all want to know why but the why basically never matters and really when people fall out of love and trying to say why they. It's not like they made a list of wise and then decided. I don't wanna love this person anymore. Because of these they had this feeling in and they intellectualize it with these wise and the kind of don't matter ultimately it's like this person doesn't want to be with you. It doesn't really matter whether they're wrong right or why it's just it's done the connections finished. And so you just need to accept that you're nearing the end of your experiment.

00:20:03 - 00:25:05

You go to burning man. The best part of this is while. I'm reading your book. I'm going through your facebook photos. I'm going through the bernie man photos. This is the gold for all right now. I'm putting all the pieces together. It's face because i can stop you while reading your influx of facebook frederick class. Yeah i know. I know you're have had accepted facebook friends from people. We went to high school. That i have probably not talked to since high school. And in general. I just accept all regressed but now that you've said this boy deep dives going. Let's talk about the million dollar question or could win. At what point did you feel like. I need to change and i'm ready for girlfriend. Yeah i think for me so my original plan was a year. I made it to burning man. I didn't have a lot of sex man. But i'm i'm a very nice beautiful woman who came back with me to la for a few days and that was really fun fling and So at that point. I was like my years up my like self promises up but like why quit now like i'm actually really good at dating now and this is really fun and i think i made about another six months. And there's a couple of chapters in the book where like they weren't bad experiences but it just felt really sleazy and i realized i was not being honest with myself with the women anymore. I was just. I like had what felt like a superpower at this point of being able to have sex with people i just met a day or two ago and so i was like okay. This isn't as enjoyable anymore. And you know sometimes something difficult happens in your life and you can't call the woman you've been out with three times from okay. Cupid and be like. I wanna talk about dad's going through a tough time and it's hard i'm like and so like okay. I finished my plan. I'm going to go find my perfect girl using my list and When i met the go through cubit and we were really compatible and she was a great great woman. And i didn't really feel strong spark but i was like well. That's exactly what i wanted. I wanted an intellectual connection and we'll grow to love each other and That was i went from being all heart to being. Well basically i went from heart all dick to all head brain and not that gonna so this relationship. That i knew wasn't quite right. She ended up feeling the same way and dumped me after three months is supposed to be you know. Had this figured out now. So that point. I really wanted to address okay. I chose someone just because we were connection mentally and she you know so. That list is really important. But you still need to have the love. I think there needs to be that initial spark of attraction of love. That's very strong That binds you together. Go back to talk about your sleazy sleaziness. Yes i feel like every guy gets to a point where they go. Oh my god. I'm that guy the guy in the yeah that i was that i was at a club and a very drunk. Because i'd been beer fest all day and it went to a club and i was just. I was texting with two girls at once. Setting updates sort of being very flirty like borderline like sex texting. While i was like wandering around the club trying to find someone to dance with and also a girl who i had a very casual. We saw each other every couple of months. Was i knew it was coming later in the evening but couldn't wait an hour to like and so at the time is all seemed fine but i was dancing with this girl and it got very physical and initiate it. She was all strung. Can like very handy. And so we were like that drunk gross coupled just making out on the dance floor and yeah and she got pulled away from me by some friends who are kind of like leave her alone and The next day when i was sober and thinking about. I'd like had so many experiences in college where i would like pull female friends away from some like squeezy guy. And it wasn't like they are. I was doing anything wrong. It's just like the friends you're gonna regret lake making out with this trump dude like come on. Let's go and so that was sort of real awakening of like. Oh i was like the next morning. I back sleazy guy was all over you and like god making out with you in the club and she'd back all my god. I can't believe i did that and says oh my this has gone too far. Like how can i be the sleazy guy in the book. And i love this part at the club. I should change men. After this. Fleming's really i wanted change. There's so much self work that people need to do. Because i you know in in your book. Madison you talk about. Saint single has started as a choice. Bay began to wonder if i lost the ability to form a meaningful relationship. I feel like so many people are in that boat. Because at some point you dating and you have sort of feelings for people and then you go and live robot. Because why can't i find great action. I think one time inc. It's not there yet and to is you just haven't found the right person so i think it's it's that working on yourself working your own emotions and not like you said explaining away your emotions on your loved that phrase.

00:25:05 - 00:30:02

Don't explain away your emotions confront them and be real with them and really deal with that. How you're feeling and that's how you can open yourself up to other people till once you're at a place where you're open to it becomes easy. You meet the right person. And there's no there's no plotting points. You're just like excited to see that person a lot and it's not. I think a lot of people are like well. We should probably move in together because we've been dating for two years and that's what you do when whereas i think when it's really like right and you're in the right place you're like. Oh i'm excited that i get to wake up this person every day and we're combining our lives. This isn't a fearful thing or thing. I'm like compromising to do. And i don't want to give too much away. But you and your wife were engaged. What within four months four months each other. That's all we're going to think a lot of times. We've we only caller relationship is success if it like ins and lifelong marriage but like relationships can be successful in a variety of definitions in so instead of saying like. What's wrong with me. I can't find someone like maybe you don't really want that right now and that's okay like some. Some people want that at age twenty two. Some people don't ever want it some people. You know sometime in your thirties you really are ready for it. And you meet the right person. And it's okay in the meantime to just be like you know i kind of like my life and my friends my life and i like being bit independent and i also like having sex and meeting new people and so that can be okay. I know it gets frustrating. Sometimes you really want to close connection to and you're struggling to find it but it's not about failure. One thing i realized with marriage is you can't have there's positives to being single and there's positives to being married and you can't have them both at the same time i mean there's open relationships or maybe you can try and find some facsimile of that but and you sort of have to be at a place where the positives of the marriage become or a serious relationship become more attractive to you than positives of being single and sort of acknowledged so you can be single and want the positives of relationship but not yet. We really truly willing to give up the positives of being single. I think people forget dating trial and error and nobody really knows what they're doing right like nobody has our ship. Figure it out. So you kimberly book on it. Because you realize it's about finding like i think it's easy to think i'm trying to find the best person like we'll have some inherent ranking attractiveness and coolness and you're trying to find the person at the highest ranking possible that you can achieve. I'm really you're just trying to find a match so whether it's you or the other person that is determined is not a good match like okay. Now we know and we move on like sucks when they figured out. I but it's still just one of you figuring out like not a match the other takeaway i have is that we're multifaceted. People were constantly changing. So what you want today could change tomorrow as foul yup right and will and i think it's important to communicate that to the people you're dating and to the people that you have relationships with recovered allies want. I learned a lot book because it's so rare to see to hear a male perspective. This male carrie bradshaw kind of perspective. On i do every guy needs to go through the slutty things. The big thing for me now being married man is. If i hadn't gone through this study phase. I always would have had like high school madison. My head of can get girls. And like i think sometimes guys cheap. Because it's just like this girl likes me like this is a miracle. I have to take advantage of this miracle. And now i've dated enough. I know it's not a miracle. If a girl likes me. I'm not tempted to go prove my worth as a man and i think it's for a lot of guys just getting that out of your system is good where you're like okay. I could go get laid all the time. I've done that in. That led to me wanting relationship. And so there's no you know what the grass is like on the other side guys at home when you if you're questioning. Am i ready. I there my friend from new york. Put it best he goes. I knew i was ready for a relationship was when i stepped into a bar saw the most attractive woman there and thought yeah i could probably take her home in wake up next morning next to her but i rather wake up and dog and my legs morning. He's like. I knew then. I was ready because just the thought just knowing i can get her as fine. It's good enough. And i think a lot of significance of having feeling that confidence. Yeah you've addressed that insecurity away that you kind of transcend soda axing to and you're not worried about. We read a bar a couple of months ago and it was like five of us. Old friends only one of us single and like some pretty girls came up to play shuffleboard with us and like all the guys relationships. Like i don't want to deal with these young and like the one single guy kind of had to go play and trying to figure out like which all to be on that side of the table with beer break. Let's go like so relaxing. You give because when you're single you always failed because i'm worthless and now i'm like oh i would have had sex with ever go here but i'm married.

00:30:02 - 00:35:03

I'm not trying to do that apple away. When did you know you're going to write a book so it was. It was a few months into the call. The the experiment So in the beginning it wasn't it really was mostly about like. I wanna be single when i get to burning man so i'm not going to because i just knew myself. I knew i dated anyone seriously like i have a girlfriend. It'd be a different experience and bring them maybe. I wouldn't go and then sort of backed into this realization of like. Oh this actually is a healthy way today like you should take some time between serious relationships to kind of reset and figure yourself out and what you want And you know. I was thirty and so there's a chance over you. The older you get the the higher the chance to the next serious relationship could be a very long-term one in so i wanted to choose wisely. And so i and then i started dating a lot and i had always been a performer and storytelling at the moth and places like that so it was all kind of anything that happened was potential material and maybe like four or five months and i started to really think maybe i could collect something and you know a year could be a nice capsule for book and interesting thing was once i sort of made the decision. I started dating more aggressively and and like Granted i went to thailand together. And i started doing things and that i'm like well even if i don't enjoy it it'll be a good story And so it actually became like a very nice way to live. Life is where you're like trying to collect stories and not trying to artificially create anything but just being going outside your comfort zone as much as possible and trying new things dating people. You wouldn't normally date trying drugs for the first time doing all these things i wouldn't normally do because i'm like well even if it doesn't go well maybe it'd be a funny story. I had mostly. There's there's a couple like crazy date stories in the book. But it's mostly like i met nice people and it went. You know. i tried to make it interesting humorous. But it's more about like my experience. Then this bitch was crazy and so when you go into this mindset of. I'm not looking for my wife for even a serious girlfriend. There's really like the worst case. Scenario is not attracted one escrow again like in that became the worst case scenario. and you. i wouldn't push too hard to try and make it anything especially just go out and try and see what kind of connection there was and if that was a one day connection or a sixty connection either way it was fine so even if you do ultimately want serious significant other. I think can help when people are dating a lot to just be like. I'm going to have a relationship with this person may be a thirty minute relationship. It might be a three week race ship and maybe a lifelong relationship. But all of those are okay and not try and push it in either direction. I also feel like for you and for me as well when you put structure to something like dating and trying to break a habit it forces to the circus communication in a really meaningful way because in my experience i'd been in a few relationships where you date for a few months. It seems to be going while all said by fall. You're calling each other boyfriend girlfriend and you bring to that all these assumptions and this idea of how a relationship is and should be and that can have the adverse effect of inhibiting just honest communication about. This is what i want. you know. i don't feel like i'm getting it. But i want to be about boyfriends so i think people in relationships can sometimes over prioritize the other person or the relationship and there's a lot of breakdown in communication like one of the realizations. I had to this time. Is that emotional. Honesty is never unkind. Even if it will hurt someone's feelings in the moment make the not like you that it's actually the kind thing to do in the long run is to be honest about your intentions and feelings comes up all the time on this broadcast and i think a lot of people will go to beaten. Nice person has road us. Short article for dot com about this that instead of ghosting. Lie winning eleven. A provocative headline this is this is more like a short term. This isn't like you've been dating for a year and a half kind of thing but if you've been gone a few days and you know you don't want to go someone. The problem is they don't know what happened. And so here's what you say to someone that you don't wanna see anymore after a third date you just say someone from my past has come back into my life and i wanna give it another chance and some sorry but i don't think we should go out against people ghost because they want to keep the door open. They don't go because they're trying to hurt. They're trying to spare people's feelings. I think it's both it's well most people ghost because they wanna come goes come back and haunt you or kind is not So when you say somebody like some for my passes come back you kind of close it. Well this is for closing the door. Yeah yes this for getting you out without because the problem is if you start to give reasons for that reason is sort of irrefutable. Like most people will just back. Okay thanks for being on even though you lying. They don't know that that's how is work. And so they'll be like thanks for being honest and letting me go whereas if you say. I don't not feeling connection. The person might be like well. Let's give it another day. let's give it another chance. I can get into hiking life that that's the other thing is i realized during this year is when you talk about being good at dating.

00:35:03 - 00:40:01

Most people assume that means like yeah. I can get any tricky winds or that girl can get laid anytime she wants. But there's also this form of being good at dating which is like being a professional about it and managing it well and you lower the ceiling of how bad it can be and i think that's a really good point because we talked about this to this getting good at dating. What is it because at some point you get so good at dating in this book that you say you have an easy time thinking connection closed and it's like running a program right they say something a you know the right thing to say back to them. It's that program and at some point all of us get so good at dating that you're like i could go on a date with a with a wall and have a great time because i know how to talk to anybody. But then. where's that connection. Where's that emotional connection. So i like what you're saying with getting good at dating in a professional way knowing knowing what you're looking for and then getting to know yourself in the dating process and also sparing people from wasting time. Yeah i think the you know you get good at dating and then you have to use your powers for good instead of evil at a certain point where being good at dating also has to be like. It's not here could it and get laid. But i'm not trying for that anymore and so you move on. You have to be able to be honest with yourself as well about what do you really want but you you make this point that i often run into with people. Is that when you start dating and you start getting good at dating. You crave that validation from people and people focus so much on getting the other person to like them back and not analyzing if you're liking that person right so it becomes as a white. Hasn't it's an ego trip. Why hasn't he called me back. He should want to be with me. Asia wants to spend time with me for some reason when you talk about dating. it's me versus you. It's very strange but when you talk about friendship it's us and we and i like that you bring up how you and your wife wife had a friendship. I turn into a relationship because it takes away that verse. You can be tough. You don't want to force something where you're not really attracted to a friend but you get along well as friends but i can be a really good foundation if you really know the person outside the context of trying to have sex with them and have a relationship my main takeaway from that is and julie knows and listeners. Know that i'm very black and way about friendship versus relationship. I don't i don't take friendships in the next level and after a relationship i don't stay friends. It's very black and white for me. But what i did learn from this from your experience is to treat dating as you're getting a new friend and anything that takes the me versus you out of it. It's would you ever flake on a friend. No because that's disrespectful you and do that you would you ever go on a front no. That's dumb why would you do that. And if they did that to you you stop being friends with them. You gotta try harder to keep the friendship going alad. Need be like that person sucks. Also the last time you're like. Should i text my no. I should wait. three days. Attack never happened so madison. Your book available. Where can we find it. it is online. It's in bookstores. You should be able to find it in most bookstores. You can get it at. My website has links to wherever you want to buy it which is Www told you that www redoubled my name. Madison perry but it's spelled m. a. t. t. s. o. n. p. e. r. r. y. dot com You can buy the book online anywhere. You should be able to go into a bookstore by your house and buy it. I also narrated the audio version of this books so you can get audible or buyer and yeah it was really good It's fun to to hear me read. i have to. I have to admit and i'm not. I'm just saying this because each other this book really come love affected about dating and grant who also is brad doubt great now because you host pike as well tell us thank you. It's called jin be subject matter of that. Show and theo gen. When you break the word down means generating divine within so a lot of the subject. Matter of our podcast is around psychedelics. Research houston treatment recreational use but not exclusively psyche dogs. We've done shows on breath work on yoga basically all capacities for when you can have a either spiritual or psychedelic experience however that comes about wonderful. I can't wait to check it out now. And i love who madison talks about if you read his book. He talks about some of his first encounters with psychedelics. Really coincide with mine variances lozo. If you read it you'll probably find something very similar to your members friend medicine and face.

00:40:02 - 00:41:31

Yeah photos is. There's a home if you have questions for madison or for grant. Brad email us. We would love to get them to answer your questions for you and if you have any cool dating stories let us know we love featuring any sort of stories you may have we can protect your identity and change your name to grant or brad two names us on that. Let's wrap this up. thank madison. We had a lot of margaritas today. Yeah so one. Two three. Stay dateable in the book. Madison talks about his time branching with his bro while dissecting each other's love lives. Hey that's why we love brench to now you can meet new people who share similar interests over brunch checkout five hundred wrenches and be sent on. You guessed it brunches all over the city with new people each time come alone or bring a friend. There's always a table full of friendly phases. Mo- says and eggs benedict sign up at five hundred branches dot com and use the code date able for free injury to connect with us visit dateable. Podcast dot com. You can also find us on facebook twitter and instagram. All under dateable podcasts.