S13E9: The Future is Pansexual

00:00:01 - 00:05:03

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone welcome to another episode of the dateable. Podcast a show where it is our mission to if you can recite it with us you've heard this too. You want people's behavior so we can figure out how and how and how to cope and deal and thrive through it. All how about that. I just envision our audience be like why why why it's It's been a fun adventure to to do this show and we always like to talk about the topic of sexuality because it is. I think the topic is fluid in itself and it changes from year to year. And i feel like this term pan sexual has been thrown around in the last few years and julian. I have really want to dig into what it means to be pan sexual and why the future may be panic span sexual up for yes age because we're not psychic but from what we've seen evidence points that way and our guest today definitely proves that as well. Yeah well i think if you look at the younger generations it's definitely starting to trend that way. Which is why. I think the future may be hand sexual because you know it just really like for anyone that is unfamiliar with the term. We're gonna dive into it in much more depth but the idea is that you don't view sex like you don't fuse sex gender like you view people as people in you fall in love with the person or you're attracted to the person not because they're mad because of their a woman so it's a little different than bisexuality because in that case you actually are thinking that there are two defined genders right in bisexuality Drafted to both were in pants sexuality. You're not thinking that way and it's all about the person you lead with your humanity you need with heart and having something we've seen in the past is identity is so core to who we are at the same time. It is so restricting at the scene time so when we think about our identity sometimes we feel like we have to act a certain way or do things a certain way just to fulfil what our identity is but the beauty of pan sexuality is a. You're not boxed in one identity so you can have the freedom to lead with your heart. I feel like there's a lot of celebrities that are coming out as pan. That's the thank like vilely. Cyrus debbie levada. Those are a few that. Come to mind that. I think of what are like more fertile this pad movement. It's a it's a thing it's a trend and it's cool and hip and it's more mainstream but we know it's been around forever is just now. Celebrities are getting a hold of it. And they're like. Ooh i wanna i. That's what i've been experiencing this whole time when you can put a label on it and validated in society. That's when we can. I feel like that's when we when people can openly talk about it but you know it's been around for so long. Yeah i think the real were like when it really becomes the future as when it's not a trendy war yeah when this is just every day like heterosexuality or i feel like even homosexuality the way it's perceived now versus probably you know twenty thirty years ago was maybe as a quote unquote trend. And now it's very proven. This is here to stay. This is a way that people love. And i think pan sexuality is in the same boat. How exciting how. Exciting to have the freedom to love people for who they are not because of their identity not because you have to identify with a certain label. It is so liberating to know that that is a future. I'm excited for our future. Nonexistent kids they give you whoever they want to be. Good love whoever they want to love. That's the that's the beauty of it. Yeah not be boxed in. it's so wonderful. I remember the problems. I faced in high school and i think a lot of people can resonate with this is battling with your identity wanting to be a homecoming queen. I don't know why. Why is i even a thing to have a of. Why is that such a thing. Why show cool and now with kids. That i talked to who are in high school. Those are the least of their worries their worries about connection there.

00:05:03 - 00:10:05

They're all about in real life Get togethers they're they're worried about covert you know. There's just bigger things than whose homecoming queen like. Fuck that it's nothing anymore. It's kinda liberate liberating okay. While we're on the topic of bad teen years the updated version of. She's all that it's he's all that i have watched it but i saw a preview for it and i thought wow it's launched. It launched with addison ray tick-tock star which says so much. She actually did a better job. That i was expecting and i texted my boyfriend. Like a really embarrassing awash. This right now and then he proceeded to watch it was good it was it was sentimental because i love that movie growing up like it reminds me of teenage years which the way that movies to pick teenage years at. Maybe if you went to school in california. I went to school the east coast. I feel like. I never saw outdoor school yet. Lobbied depicts high school like this outdoor campus at about But yeah i thought. I think she's all that brought that like with freddie prince junior. The original was definitely one of those movies. I can think they're sentimental value. And i think that's what drew me to it and actually the the lead in it. It took me a little while to realize the girl that they transformed. She's the mother and this one. She's in matthew lillard like the principal. The school my gosh. Because they're all older fuck now junior. Wish he made a cameo. He's like no no forty five of based on he's done. Is he still married to sarah. Michelle gellar now. I'm thinking about it. Who knows they fallen off the universe their sexual down. I just made that up. Let's start the wikipedia list of for anyone. Curious is a wikipedia list sexual Celebrities that's how you know it's up mccovey tried to a pretty sure. There's no like list of maybe there's a list of gay celebrities. I shouldn't say that. I've never google debt by somewhere sarah. Michelle geller's her. Kitchen looking at the list of sexual celebrities are husband and stopped in her tracks. The rivers offer data of all. This is where it happened. What the fuck babe actual intel. This is clearly. What's happening at the prince. geller home. That movie i loved that movie as well julie in the now when i re watched that movie it is the most ridiculous thing. Yeah well this. What is so ridiculous because it's all about influence or culture that's how you gotta watch it. Watch each at back in we could regroup on it but is there a home makeover scene. Because that's the guy they've reversed genders which is cut a of a man he take off his glasses and he's super hot. You know he. He should have been pan sexual. That's they. They kind of dropped the ball about one was a little too hetero. Normative there were. There was a lesbian couple. Those they brought some in. It'll be they are all that that'd be the next. They should do your five four years. That will come out well. I'm excited to watch that movie. That's gonna be on my list. I have a whole list of movies. Embarrassed to watch around other people. So i'm gonna watch them on my own. I think that to my list. Love it love and it was so nice to you this week. You and i got to celebrate which was super fun and yeah i think we deserved it kind of reminds me of because i was looking through some of our older dateable photos and we used to be together all the time for kind of forgot about those days. I forgot what it's like to have people around you know in my apartment and we're sitting around on my floor because i didn't have enough furniture for everyone and it was just so fun. It felt like a slumber party or something and it was so great to be julie's apartment because she's got a new apartment is gorgeous so beautiful to be in there and we also took our call in there. With our new finding your person program cohort so that was our first live call. We met some of the people who are in the program and it was just a really great time to connect to get up. Probably about like half of them were on the call which was pretty cool to see people. It's always really fun to like. Meet people i know. It's virtual but i just feel like you're actually meeting people something about the virtual. I think that day that night when we did our call julie really set the tone for the rest of the night because we just felt so warm. And i don't know ready to be to be social so we went to dinner and this old couple was was very friendly and they were giving us recommendations on which many to choose but turns out their stories so gracious.

00:10:06 - 00:15:03

They've definitely looked like they were madly in love right. Uh-huh and they were probably in their seventies seventies. Yeah i wanna say seventies. Yeah they've been married for a long time so we we were kind ask you. What's you know what's the secret to such a long marriage will. They asked us what we were. Celebrate a and. We told that we had to take podcasts. So that's how kinda got kicked off to and people always take that as a as a jumping off point for their love stories right. They're like oh you. Do dating podcast. Let me tell you about my love story. And we always ask a little too. Because we're just inherently dorsey. Very very and her answer was the best. She said the secret. Is you gotta get through to other marriages. i well. What was so great about their stories. They do each other in middle school. They sadly narrowing. Yeah in then. They went their separate passively. She said that she was studied abroad or she lived abroad for. I'll just stay. He was in santa barbara so that they live there now and they were just up for the week visiting san francisco and he had lived in santa barbara basically his whole adult life. It's had traveled. All around them was brought back there in their pass cross later in life when they were both in different life stages they'd come out of divorces with other people which is kind of amazing. When you think about it that you know. I feel like i strongly believe that things work out for the right reason. People are brought together for a reason so the fact that like their past crossed all these years later. Maybe they weren't ready to be together when they like. They had these lives. They had to live before they could be together. Kind of reminds me of like even you and your partner you a than you knew each other years and years before you met you kind of needed to grow as individuals and go through your own respective life experiences before you found each other. That's why we should stop putting so much pressure on the forever. You don't know what's going to happen in the future. You don't know how your life phases while pan out but you do know this question of how do you know you found your person. You found your person when you feel like you've found your prison for right now for who you are today where your life is at and it's a fit for you. Stop putting pressure on with the future is because there is a chance that in our lifetime we find many of our persons and that's okay too and we shouldn't put We shouldn't feel guilty about that. Were feel fear around that the fact that they've re-met later in life in their kids kinda grew up together such a beautiful love story. But it's not a love story you hear on these tv shows or in these rom com movies. These movies don't sell but we know that this is reality. This is life There is a really good question on our first call that we had that was all about with finding person program. It's how do you stay like appreciate the process. Not stay too fixated on the goal. Every person immediately is spy person is young person is a spy person and i think we you know the way that we brought this up was i definitely went through this when i kind of was looking and i was i think inherently even if you're like Looking all the time you're always wondering a little is the someone that can develop into a worse. And i think the reality is is that maybe it does push you actually that like give a little more and take chances and like you said we know what the future hasn't store foley. There's some things especially as you get to know someone you may uncover new things in some of that may dry closer to them in some of them might be things that are dealbreakers and some of those are really apparent right away and some of them take time to unfold and i think that's okay like i think that it's you know maybe it's not realistic to say like i found right person right away like i think you can have an inkling that you found your person but i do think a lot of times it does take time to develop in see you know if this is a fit for the long haul and that stuff you just can't get from like date one or two all the time yeah and then ultimately may be in fifty years. You look at the person who's been there all along since twelve years old and you have this wakeup call and thank This is my person. Come full circle. I do have a theory. Julie that people do come full circle in life. I've seen this happen quite a bit. Where you basically end up with the person either you. I had a connection with or someone who resembles the person you. I had a connection with interesting. You definitely feel that way right about your partner absolutely and i. We were at a birthday party a few weeks ago and we were sitting at a table with a bunch of couples who experienced the same thing.

00:15:03 - 00:20:04

They all went to the same college. Did not date in college knew about each other and then had a connection college but didn't pursue it and then like twenty years later got together is i. There's something about this full circle because when you meet someone earlier in life you don't know what you're missing out on yet. You almost have to explore all of your options to know what you have is the right thing for you. Yeah i think some people that can be the case for sure I don't know if it's everyone though. Like i don't know if that actually is how i operate as much i think for me. What i've experienced is every person builds on the decks person. Because i've got it like more confident and i've gotten more clear about what i need in a partner so i don't know if i would necessarily wanna go full circle to who i i had that connection web 'cause i don't know if that's who i would be attracted to today. I think i've just had so much growth over the years that what i'm looking for in a person completely changed. No i think. I think it can be either or We talk about this law. Sometimes people's problem is they're not living the life that you know they're kind of holding back waiting for a partner in other people are just way too independent. So i think some of it is knowing yourself too because i think a lot of times. We can be on two ends of the spectrum. Usually it's like somewhere in the middle is the sweet spot. Finding that sweet spot that will be our next program now. You've found your person we're going to help you find your sweet spot. Should we get to a good. Let's at to penn sexuality One of our listeners. Wrote in and said i am in my thirties and 'em now starting to explore my sexuality in high school i had always been been interested in men and then in college i started being a little bit interested in and now i kind of feel like i could be interested in anybody who makes my heart saying. Do you think it's too late to explore your sexuality in your thirties and if it's not too late how and where do you even start. I don't think it's virtually no. No we know. People who explore their sexuality in their sixties mattis. Okay that just means you are finally ready to do so. So i agree. It's never too late. So but where do you start. You know that is. That is a tough question. I do think there are a lot of communities that exist out there. So i think that could be a place to start like a little bit different question but like the polly community for example exists. So i know people that were interested in poly-amorous were able to find communities and talk to people and hear their stories so i think hearings other people's stories and hearing people's stories as really good way to just feel like you're not alone in this into understand that other people have gone through something very similar. That could be you know. Finding podcast supported could be finding ira people that you actually talk to meet up with. I shouldn't even say. Ira could be online too but communities of people. I think that's super important. Just any education and then really probably like you have to try things to go on those states and to see how it's feeling and be up front with it. We we talk about this on the episode. We've talked about other ones sometimes. It's okay to even say like this is my first date coming out of this and then you might weed out people that maybe don't wanna be like as experiential but then there'll be some that are open to that Yes i think one good idea maybe is to put it in your dating profile. That you're laurie. You're in a stage of being open minded and finding anybody who like you said makes your heart sing and i think that in turn will draw in the people who are also in that exploratory stage Second piece of vice. Listen to this episode because exactly what our guest went through. She had one identity in mind and she ended up breaking free of all identities and just went with her heart so keeping that open mind listening to all all of everyone else's journey stories will really help you through this too but know that it is totally fine. Start in your thirties or forties or fifties. It does not matter your age as long as you feel like. You're open and ready to do so. I think it's okay also to come back to where you started. We guess margot from season seven. It was a while ago and we had her on for part one. She's talking about frustrations with dating as heterosexual female in then. One of our mutual friends asked if we had talked to her. Recently this was months that went by. She is now in a relationship with a woman so he had her back in. Even in this exploration phase. She had gone on a date with a couple. She had done a bunch of different things that were outside of her comfort zone just to get to know herself better to know or sexuality better in now she's gone back to dating men and i think that's okay like that's totally okay.

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Because i would personally. Rather if i had the questioning at rather figure out what's right for me even if it means that the stuff in the short term ended up not being right then you can say. I'm good with my situation. I've explored others than i know. Now this is what suits me yes. Just don't get stuck in identity. That's it okay. Cool okay so some announcements this week. The typical joined love and the time of corona facebook group. By the dateable podcasts. That's the public group. That's where people you know. Post questions and community members will chime in and really support each other along. This dating journey always amazed by the questions and there and then the sounding board is our premium community where we have these virtual events. Were calling them the weekly sound off. We have office hours with you. A and i With the weekly sound off we have. Our host team lead discussion topic based discussions. We've had ones about like the decision to have children or not. We had fear of dating again how to overcome it. We've had all sorts of different topics that really resonated with folks in. It's a really great way for people to kinda you know. Get things out you ate. I were talking about this. I think part of our journey. That's been helped us so much is that we've been able to talk it out along the last five years in it away. The sounding board provides you that experience to talk it out with your fellow sounding board members that also ask us questions to in the monthly group chat that we have the coffee chat That's alive call with the two of us so if you're interested in that good a dateable. Podcast dot com slash sounding board. And if you are really enjoying our conversations in this podcast Do your friend a favor and send them a link because that is the some of the best ways for friendships to blossom. We've seen so many people say oh. I got closer to my friend. Because i sent her this episode about relationships. Do you really want one. And now all the time. Because i think listening to these episodes even for us julian. I we have these topics that every time we come together. We're like we'll let let's talk about that last episode. That was what did you think about it and it it just hearing all the different perspectives brings you closer together as friends to yes and the malinche. It's the modern day book club. I like book clubs. Never work out at least book clubs. I were in because reading. A book is a lot of effort and no one ever was on the same schedule with each other. It'd would end up just being. Let's get together and drink wine night instead. Listening to a podcast is so low advancement. You could do it on a walk. It's usually an hour hour and a half max. There's so many ways that this could be the new book club. Yes yes for sharks and wanna give a quick shout to alice who. I met randomly this week. Who happens to be a listener and also part of our finding your person program. So i thought serendipity brought us together. And i just wanna say hello alice. Thanks for listening. I love it. I always love when we randomly meet listeners. It's always super funds. Keep coming you know it really. It does always prove that we're always a couple layers separated for people to even you know in our facebook groups were able to see mutual friends and there was some people that i saw in our facebook group in the finding your person group that i had mutual friends within their people haven't talked to in years live across the country so it's not that they heard about the podcast through this person probably right. It's just it just shows that everyone has some connection. There's always the six degrees of separation right. Six degrees of kevin bacon but six degrees of dateable podcast. I don't think we can. Mention met kevin bacon steam anymore. I think he's banned so six degrees of dateable. We can call series. That's the day think. Okay let's go into a few quick messages from our sponsors support. For dateable is brought to you by in scipio in scipio offers legendary protection. For all of your devices from phones to airports a tablets they obsess over there tech to protect yours. It's like in scipio. Line of products was made for me because with their phone cases. My phone is protected from drops as high as fourteen feet. The cases are also wireless charging compatible. And there's a lifetime warranty so they've got you covered. I have the organic court clear case which is made up of one hundred percent impossible materials that reduces landfill waste. I naturally re entering the environment from where it started. All the packaging is made out of one hundred percent. Recyclable materials with eco friendly water based ink now for dateable listeners. Only we have a special offer. These incredible cases are now available for purchase at in scipio dot com. And you can use the code dateable for twenty percent off. That's i and see i.

00:25:01 - 00:30:00

I o dot com and use the code dat ab l. e. for twenty percents off. This episode is sponsored by better help. It is no surprise julian. I are huge fans of therapy especially online therapy and better help can do exactly just that they match you with your own licensed therapist and connect you in a safe and private online environment. I was able to start communicating with my therapist and less than forty eight hours. Superfast better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches and it's more affordable than traditional offline. Counseling they're licensed professionals specialize in everything from stress management Anxiety trauma dating and grief. We adaptable wish for all of you to live a happier more wholesome life and we think therapy and prioritizing. Your mental will accomplish that so as our listeners. You'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash. Dateable join over. One million people have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help. H. e. l. p. dot com slash dat ab l. a. Okay let's take it away with genesis. All about the future is pan. Sexual sexuality you. Wow we love this topic because we meet people from all walks of life who have their own experiences with sexuality sexual preferences and identity is a very fascinating aspect of all that so our guest today. Genesis identifies while she identified as by in high school then she identified as a lesbian and now she's married to a straight male. It's quite journey. We wanna get into yes and you identified out. His pants sexual. I think the future is pan. Sexual also can't dive in there with you. Wore genesis huish genesis. She is thirty two years old. She lives in walnut creek. She's been there for three years but she's originally from mexico city. She's in a monogamous relationship. Obviously jeez i. I shouldn't say. Obviously she is in a monogamous. Reg- holly barriages your pants actual people can assume. I can't say obviously more. And you know this is going to be really about your journey and we can't wait to learn more about you. But i wanna start in high school because you say you came out as bi in high school. How did you come upon that. And then how were you able to come out. Yeah you know it started with just seeing other women that didn't look very feminine. Like i was used to. You know woman with short hair walking on the street or you know being at the mall and a woman who had spiky hair kind of wearing what. I thought to be men's clothing in so i kind of just started noticing that and was like intrigued. Oh i like that. That's i like that. And then it kinda grew to like being attracted to women that i assumed were lesbians who i assumed were also into other women based off of their looks fifteen. Sixteen at the time. So i didn't really have any other base of what sexuality looked like other than straight girls so then you you identified as bisexual at this point like what brought you Defined as being a full-on lesbian. Yeah what started as by just. Because i feel like at least for me and i know some other lesbians probably experienced this but for me. It was just like an easy avenue to start with like okay. I have dated men. So i know i like men but now i'm obviously also interested in this other factor women so the only clear suction by so. That's kind of like the first baby step of like sexuality at least it was for me. And when did you start identifying as a lesbian. probably not until Middle of college. When i had a serious relationship with a woman. So you're exclusively dating women at this point. Yes yes in my early gush. Not even twenty. I was turning twenty entered into a serious relationship with a woman. We ended up dating for five years but it was how we live together. We did the whole shebang. We were very committed in in love. And so that's what i was like. Okay i can have this serious relationship with a woman maybe not by. It's just yeah. I'm a lesbian now. This is my life. I'm gonna marry a woman. So was she your first like serious relationship or had you had them with men before or other women. I had a boyfriend in high school which was very tumultuous. Just like the very typical. Romeo and juliet Screaming at each other. Then we're in love so it was like all feel like he's good data before like your twenties doesn't doesn't matter.

00:30:02 - 00:35:01

I like adult relationship with this man and then what about post her. Was it your husband or were there. Other people in the mags immediately after it was strictly women. Because again i was like i'm a lesbian. I'm dating women. So is on the apps looking for only women and women who identified as lesbians specifically and and so i was just dating very casually nothing very serious and then slowly i don't i don't actually even know if i can pinpoint a moment but it was just a very slowly started to also opened my mind. Backup to men again. Ha and and i don't know why that is. I think may be. But i never went back to being by. I was just like. I'm a lesbian. But i'm also kind of intrigued with men. We'll see had you slat like you. Slept with men like your high school boyfriend. Ju- sleep with him. I did yes okay. So you had slept with men and women at this. Yes yes both. You are a curious lesbian curious about me. That is so interesting. And yeah okay so you were. You assert opening yourself up to men and then something happened yet but you know i was actually a little bit upset with myself about it because it was almost like a real confusion because when i cannot in high school it was very sad about it like i was crying. I was journaling. what's happening. What's going on and what i presented to. The world was very confident. I never was somebody that was like lying about it or shying away from it i kind of faced it head on but it was still very confusing so that when it happened again it was also like oh my gosh. What's going on now like. Why can't i identified myself. Why can't i pinpoint who i am. And so yes so that was kind of like another hurdle to kind of like i dunno know overcome that sexuality that does begs the question. Why why do we have to identify. That seems to be the stress that we often face. I have to be this one identity. And i gotta live up to this i identity. That's what my external facing identity is. But why do we need to be boxed in like that. That's just a a very great way of talking about sexuality because it doesn't it doesn't need to be so black and white in this scenario and then how did you meet your husband yet. So i actually met him through a mutual friend at a house party it we met. It was a hi. How are you nice to meet you lino. And we went on with our lives and then we met again six months later through the same friend at a film screening and actually And then we started at the bar. And i am a lucid dream burn. He was asking me about my dreams. So we kinda started talking about lisa dreaming and then through those conversations. I kinda just was like. He's kind of cute. He's very nice. I don't know. I dated a lot of crappy men as well. So he wasn't that he was very kind was a good listener here. He actually reminded me of a lot of women. I dated which is kind of well. I cut it to what you be though. There's started bed that have more. I don't wanna say famine qualities because not even that but they just have like more of that in touch with their emotional side maybe they have to soft skills soft skills. I think it's sexy so it's dieting. It's interesting say the emotional side because that's exactly. He attributes his emotional side to certain acting pros programs that he did in la so he was really able to get in touch with his emotions and kind of get to the root of who he was and i feel like helped our relationship flourish. Yeah and we'll we'll see the first man that you had had interested in a seriously. Yes sexually but it was more like the first man that it was more emotionally attracted to got it. Okay so you said that you dated shitty man. So i know you answered the tumultuous high school guy but with other guys in the mix yes so after my serious girlfriend there was a couple not so directly after it was only women in as later into my twenties i kinda opened backup to men And it was very casual they. It wasn't anybody that i've ever met on dating apps because dating onsite was strictly less. Vs only looking for women but in person you know if i happen to work with somebody serving at a restaurant. We kinda just things would happen. So how old were you. Then when you met your husband twenty seven. I think i turned twenty seven. Did he know that you identified as a lesbian dating apps. He knew identified as a lesbian just everyday life. I told him very clearly one night after drinking and having some fun i said listen. I'm very much a lesbian. I don't know what's going on here. I'm open to exploring this with you. And i'm just having some fun. Know he's like okay. Great so very much like was like this isn't going anywhere buddy like i'm a lesbian.

00:35:01 - 00:40:01

You're just an experiment are embalm. His reaction was like cool or was he. A little like is this. What is the and. maybe. That's why i continue to to date him was because he wasn't a lot of men when i tell them or molest ban it was like well when are we gonna have a threesome hot typical difficult shit. Yup and he was the first one that was like okay. Well when can i see you again. You know very like eating care. He didn't care. he was very respectful about. Didn't ask any questions that were rude or cliche or like stereotypical. So how did you get to the point them that he wasn't an experiment that you were actually pursuing to eventually become your husband. Yeah i think it just happened really naturally in it came through me talking with actually one of my best friends who like what am i doing like i. I'm a lesbian. I don't know why. I'm you know. I'm dating these other girls kind of casually but what's going on with the sky and she was just really motivating and inspiring and she's like you know nothing about you set in stone like why don't you just explore and see where it goes and give him a chance. He's a kind person and very wise words. yes she's a very wise friend And an inside just kind of jumped in and then it just from their happened very casually like i imagine. Most you know relationships happening like that turn to syria just dated and we dated got more serious more serious but it did take some soul-searching conversations with friends and even with him of like i'm gonna go with this. You know my pass nell like. Hopefully you can trust that. I'm falling and we'll see where that goes. Did he have any doubts at all. Or what was he like. Not that he not that he ever spike spoke to with me Maybe he did. I'm not really sure. But you know i would always casually asked him like. Would you be more upset. If i cheated on you with a guy or with a girl would cheat on you but like if i were to who she rather meet cheat on and sometimes his answers were like i'd be more upset. You cheated on me with the woman interesting. And maybe it's 'cause there's like an emotional side there I'm not really sure. I guess we'd have to ask him. Yeah that question's always interesting. Because i feel like people just asked that were hypothetically yours was a little closer to home but it's kind of like oh this person that's obviously very different than me that i can't you know quote unquote like compete with anyway. It's like apples to oranges. Were in your case. Like does this mean they're not attracted to me you know that's like question with that question. Well aside from the anatomy a between men and women the differences way new started dating your now husband seriously. Did if feel much different than dating women seriously. I mean aside aside from anatomy. Aside from. I mean i don't think so i think when you're of in a serious relationship with somebody to kind of same things come up like you're with each other about the same things or you let you kind of find your own inside jokes and i think that like if i were to compare mike serious relationship with a woman in a serious relationship with a man at other core. They're usually rooted in love and respect. And then you can kind of build off of that but there wasn't much different otherwise i mean there are differences like day to day like women are in general. I i think somebody might argue. Otherwise i think women tend to be more intuitive and so they would like dating women. They were very much more like quick to know when i was in about a mood or something then a guy could see that and things like that so things like they're kind of those everyday differences but at the core. They're very similar. I would say what about the stereotypes like the u. haul relationship with lesbians basically on the second date. They're ready to move in together. The just like over-communicated. Everything we did you see either of those old shrew in any way. Oh yeah the over communicating. Oh yes i mean. Everything is like a three hour conversation. There's nothing wrong with that. Will read like i enjoyed that but you know if you start fighting at midnight with a guy may stop it by twelve thirty girl woman who all night so rehashing your attachment style. What about the moving fast did you see. I mean i know. You're only a sample size of two serious relationships are we're making generalizations here. This is really about yourself. Did you see any difference. Or did they move at the same pace or maybe even the guy even faster that the woman with the woman it was very fast like within a few weeks We were like it was very quick actually also with my current husband. It was four months in so baby. He has some lesbian attribute.

00:40:02 - 00:45:19

Months in what that we moved in with like four bucks to like you establish that seems pretty slow actually but yes did got is pretty fast with your girlfriend was like within a month that you moved in or like within a month. Oh yeah if walks a u. haul to the so. You just moved fast general. But she was a little faster yes. She was a little faster and he was pretty fast too. Yeah was your family aware of kind of your journey experiences. They were in one of my biggest fears with my family. Was you know. I i did come out to my family in high school and then again when i was seriously dating a woman I'm in a serious relationship. Now identifies lesbian. This is me and my mom took it okay. She was a little bit like needing to process it more so than my stepdad. The time he was like that's great jen. Great like whoever you're with is fine as long as you're happy which i appreciated So they so they definitely knew. I think when it came to like family friends in like family. That was not immediate. I got you know some odd questions or some things like People would say. Oh well you know i knew it was just a phase think and i and i still actually fear that like could they see you know. See me settle down with a man. They still like. Think genesis had that lesbian phase. When nothing right like you have like the husband and baby. Now you're living like the puerto quote traditional lifestyle definitely struggle with two as feminist like. Oh great. I'm living out the very traditional life kind of combat that a little bit. I totally of that fair bit too. It's like sometimes you're like. I want to be progressive but then sometimes you also want the traditional things that it's like caving in or something. Well you're kind of anything but traditional. I feel like for your transformations. I think the stories we've been hearing on. Our show are the exact opposite straight identifying women who fell in love with him in and then leaving their husbands or boyfriends for women. You've gone. I wouldn't even say you went full circle. You landed where you are today. It's not even where you started. So i think it's anything but traditional but i get it because if anybody saw you in this moment in time the pitcher. You're painting is very traditional but they have no idea what you went through to get to where you are today. So that's really really really interesting. I love that. So let's let's talk about. What is it about your current husband that you felt like this is it. I want to spend my life with this person and also have a kid with this person. Yeah you know. I think again. He's so kind like he so kind to everybody. He meets He's so respectful. I mean even little things like being kind to your server or two strangers on history like into genuinely want to help people that was such a big one for me because the world is crazy and people are mean to each other and so if you can find somebody that's genuinely kind to themselves in the people around them. I feel like that's for me so important. Something kindness and then also respect of relationships. I wear like casual relationships. Also series wins. They kind of had a core of being disrespectful like reading. Somebody's journals or just like wiling them when you know they're working and picking a fight like genuine things that are just not respectful to the other person was something that i was just not gonna settle for. Yeah and some yeah. My current husband would never. He's so respectful. Will i think that's the whole bit about pants sexual right. It's all about the person that you're falling for dot the sexuality can you kind of Go in a little deeper like y. You identified as pan sexual Bisexual in what this whole like all your experiences did for you in terms of identity and that's a loaded question. No i can answer it the best that i can. So i'm also. I'm in grad school for philosophy and there's a lot of philosophies around gender and sexuality and kind of going back to what you said about you know the kind of blackened whiteness of of sexuality but what we're learning that sexuality is not a a spectrum. It's not like one end you're straight went under gay. It's it's actually much more complicated than that. It's like a whole universe of identities of sexualities genders olivennes. So there's not kind of like either or and so for me as i was kind of like learning this through my life of of sexuality and gender because to me like i could follow fall in love with somebody who identifies as anything so i wouldn't want to hinder myself from dating somebody that might be trans or gender fluid more non binary like i wouldn't shut myself off from any of the of those identities and then also with with sexuality so somebody was by date them if they were straight gay.

00:45:19 - 00:50:12

You know Date anybody that also wanted to date me. That i was attracted to of course course right. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break to hear some of our messages. This episode is field by drizzly. How many of you have a full blown bar in your house. I mean i wish but with the drizzly app you basically have that of the palm of your hands. Drizzly a number one app for alcohol delivery. Because sometimes you need a now like right now. Some cool features of the drizzly app include getting drank delivered to your door in under sixty minutes. I found the super helpful in this virtual world that we live in where it's harder to meet up with friends or coworkers for drink so now just send them drinks. Their selection is also huge. I'm always happy when i can find some. Brunello wine or that. George clooney tequila. You know what. I'm talking about and finally drizzly connects you to local liquor stores where you can compare prices across all of them so go check out drizzly now by downloading the drizzly app or going to drizzly dot com. That's dr is e. l. y. dot com and use the promo code spice. Five cra five dollars off your first order. That's drizzly dot com and use the code spice five for five dollars off. Have you ever thought about how much better dating would be if you had a whole army of people supporting you. Along the way we know that eating can be frustrating and lowly but it can also feel fulfilling and fun. Have you recently decided you wanna make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reenter the dating scene. Maybe you've gone on many dates. That went nowhere. Or maybe you're just ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes monthly office. Hours where you can drop in and chat with us about anything weekly sound offs with guided discussions and regular virtual happy hours. Allow julian i to become your dating sherpas to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can all navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board and is your husband. Has he always been st identifying yes and then in this current in your marriage he also identifies as a straight male right. Okay yeah Yeah this identity of discussion is just facet. Also because you had a child so then your identity shift shifted after had child to. It's like we're never married to our identity. 'cause it's constantly changing. So why do we have to pigeonhole ourselves into one. Now that you identifies pan sexual even when you're identifying as bisexual. What were some of the misconceptions that you were hearing or feedback. You're getting from people. I think the biggest one was always people want to put you into a box. Based off of the way that you look very manly and i actually think that that's okay sometimes As human beings we kinda have this constant fight or flight like. Are you safe for me to be around. Can i can. I kind of like trust trust you and but as we learn these things about each other we should be able to be more open minded about that but i did experience. You know people being like a will you don't look by you. Don't look like you don't have short hair or you. Don't walk what i perceived to be masculine. You're not attracted to me are you. Are you hitting on me. I'm i'm a guy. So why are you. You know whatever it may be so there was definitely a lot of very Physical stereotypes that can with all different identities. That i've experienced. We have pride livestream that we did. We also turn into an episode in. We had a woman that identified as by and she said that she was very much monogamous. But everyone would always be like. Oh can we do have a threesome. Or i'm afraid that you're gonna leave me for this person or you're gonna cheat on me or you're going to do this at the same time and she was like no. I'm still monogamous. Like have you encountered. I know you mentioned like some guys would throw that line. Like what was your response when you got stuff like that yet. Pretty similar unlike. Well my relationship. There's types of relationships in. that's not what i'm talking about rights. I i'm talking about my sexuality which is not what i believe. I could be lesbian. An paulie like be totally opened so think that there's a difference between your monogamy and non monogamy so if you're just because i might be sexually attracted to all sorts of people doesn't mean i want to date them at the same and even if i did that's also nobody's business like that something like right right and then also it's not i would assume ivy the was she brought up to on the livestream.

00:50:12 - 00:55:03

It's like you're not necessarily attracted to every out there if you're straight you're not attracted to everyone of the opposite gender. You have certain people Jude's people you're not exactly exactly and i'm gonna ask you. This question may be controversial. But i've been asked this question or had this discussion with friends. And they're like i would never dare to ask this question. So i'm just gonna ask again. Excuse my ignorance if this comes off wrong. But in some my observations of people who are pan sexual aunt or a homosexual. The roles between two people still fall into heterosexual roles. So you have more of the butch woman win the feminine woman and even when you said in the beginning in in high school you were tracked into the women who has short hair dressed kind of masculine. What would you say to that observation. Because my question is is that something that is just we naturally fall into or is that just something we see more of and we're not seeing more of the other like same gender role couples. Yeah you know. I think a big part of it could be like it's socially constructed so we are. We are used to seeing certain things and so we act those out. I personally tried to kind of explore. masculine side even in my straight relationship with a man so like we would go out for drinks or movie i would put my arm around him and he really liked that so i kind of kept doing it so i kind of like personally tried to explore those within myself and not being afraid like to be more masculine acting presenting even if i was wearing a dress like i'm gonna hold you. I'm going to be the big spoon. I'm going to open the door for you and i. That was personally. I don't know if other people do that. But i i like to try and combat those gender those norms than we're used to but i think it's because we are resisting because we've always known that we've been taught that so the more that we can kind of challenge that than the more. We might see things that aren't aren't the norm Bullets forcing people in a box. Even talking just about straight folks for a second. Because i know you were saying that like people. That aren't straighter could forming happen. Even the people that they're trying to conform to. I feel like that's already putting people box 'cause even if you're a woman you have a blend of feminine and masculine trains and also if you're a man i think that's where so much toxic masculinity comes in that you feel like less than if you don't exhibit we've been telling you at earlier like about your husband and i hated using the word like damn intellect describe emotionally available like that's kind of stop when you think about it but why can't a man have those qualities and i personally super attracted to those qualities. I feel like this is something that like. Everyone is dealing with like. How do we get out of these. And we're clearly making progress in european. Like what else can we doing to fight out of this. I think i mean the biggest thing for me is just having conversations like talk about it talk about even with your partner like i've even talked about it with my husband like hey do but what if we just do like a fun photo. Shoot tonight and like all. Wear your clothes in your mind. That would be fun right. He's like great. Let's do it. You know just have conversations in not being afraid to sound silly here stupid like because if somebody is going to make you feel insecure for asking a question and challenging some norms than maybe you shouldn't be with them Yeah that's a really good point because we don't the more we identify with one identity the more we crawl into that box and the less we explorer everything else. That's available to us in this world. And i i would also argue that by exploring the feminine masculine. All of it the decides of you will also benefit other parts of your life. I think we can bring that into her. Professional life can bring that into our personal life. We can bring more creativity because our brain isn't wired to distinct one way but for some reason society tends to want us to walk down one aisle and stay there. That's such an interesting point you a two. I think that does fall into taking sexuality but even going from a single person to being in a relationship that is an identity shift. Were going from being childless to being a mother or father like that's a huge identity shifts. And i think that in other parts of life those shifts happen all the time in there. Maybe a little less you. Don't come out and be like. I'm in a relationship. Now you know and do the whole song and dance to tell your parents and away that you're you know changing gears. Why do we think that that is so accepted that we go through different stages of life in its fluid yet in sexuality.

00:55:03 - 01:00:03

It's so binary were obviously coming out of that binary. But it's still not the mainstream. What are your both of your takes on that. Yeah it is really interesting like i said. I think that we want to put some identities on each other for like actually even for survival reasons of like if i if i'm a lesbian i feel like maybe i have short hair so that i can attract other lesbians so like night. I put myself into these boxes so that other people might identify me and say hey. I think i know what's going on here. You're safe for me to kind of hit on or talk to and so there's kind of that side of it. I'm but also. I think that people just fear things that they don't know. Oh yes and. I think. Maybe i mean i don't know like religion has maybe played a role people being fearful that they've been taught is wrong that if they explore that they're gonna go to hell. I mean it can get really extreme. I think that we have to kind of be willing to identify that. Shift away from it because it is killing people. it's not. it's not great for our society. To thrive in. yeah absolutely. i'm so with you on that genesis. And i do have this hunch. That religion is the basis of all of this because i think at the core of it is still about reproduction and i think society benefits from reproduction because it adds more people into society to help build society into contribute. So we still have this. We as in society still has this old fashioned notion that you have to be heterosexual In order to reproduce which is no longer the case right. So i think is just so deeply ingrained. I hate to say we just need to wait for the older generation to die off the younger generations on borders. They're all pan. Everyone's they are all was at a art sale with a bunch of high school kids. They created art and they want to sell it and everybody was in high school. And i had no idea who was a man or woman didn't matter they were all dressed in very very let's just say like close that i you know not identifying as either gender and they spoke in a way that was very neutral and open. I was just floored by how woke these kids. Were and i will be like okay. So where do you have a like worse a women's section because they had some clothes and they're like what do you mean women's action is all of it. Yeah it just go through all the clothes you wear all of it. it was. It was wonderful eye opening and it gives me so much hope. So do you think. The future is pan sexual. Then do you think there's still a place for being by for instance or do you think that's going to replace being by. I think so. I mean being by for me implies that there's only two genders to be attracted to and i believe there's many more genders and maybe even more that we don't know about and so i think being buys is so limiting at least for me and so i would hope that the future does move towards more of a pen sexual future because it's just more fun. It's more it's more open for everybody. Is there a difference between pan sexual and sexually fluid You know i actually don't know they. I know pan sexual means that you're attracted to all sexualities all all genders specifically zone and you could be a emotionally attracted to them not just a easily so you could be like i'm emotionally attracted to but would you still want to date that person if you were just emotionally and not sexually. I mean maybe. I think there's some people that date and are just are a sexual don't have each other so they might wanna be a emotionally romantic with somebody but they don't have sex so i could see that being an option for some people gather is actually a rise in the younger generation to with asexuality and being a siphoned gives more socially accepted again like just the opening up too many options Just falling into the norms of what it is. Okay so i think so. There's arguments online. They could be the same thing but the it's very nuance. The difference is sexually. Fluid means you're attracted to people of multiple genders but one at a time and pan pan sexuality means you're attracted to all genders all the time. Yeah oh solich. If you're sexually fluidly you go through a period where you're attracted to men a period that you're attracted to women so you're is that so it's less it's still more about the like putting people into boxes Well it's more like i am Yes i think. That's what that's what the internet says it could be. I'm i'm into. I mean to women right now and then who knows tomorrow could be in two men. But it's not you only have is for women today we're pan sexual. It's like it's all about the person in that could change by the second by the hour.

01:00:03 - 01:05:08

You might not even think that. They're like identify as a man or woman. Gender is all fluid. Yes yeah interesting. I could be totally wrong. I would love for someone to give me formation on this because there's a lot of conflicting information yet and i know we don't have Someone that identifies a man on this episode right now. I also would love to have someone. Eventually that identifies as pan sexual in as a man. But i would. I would like both of your thoughts on this. Because i have some as well. Maybe younger generations are not thinking this way but i know like any time i've had a friend like oh i talking to the sky and oh he's by or he's pants sexual and it's seen very differently than women saying that in society as well. There's a lot of like studies and articles of just the response to it. And i think some of that is the sexualization of lesbians verses men that are supposed to be masculine and straight in all that stuff supposed to be is not my words. It's society so at love your thoughts on like. Why do we think that is the case. If you've heard similar that it's been more difficult for men to be pen sexual via. I think it could totally come from just history and you know all of those stereotypes that are put on women and men. I think the sexualization of women is definitely an of b-actor Because it's almost easier to accept like okay. A woman is more frivolous with her sexuality. Ha ha just she's just an overly sexual woman somebody needs to tame her whereas like man it can be very scary for other men for a man to be in touch with sites of himself. That other men aren't they can feel maybe But i do think that we've just been taught over time like that. Men are unemotional and their sexual and they take hold of their women and women are supposed to be kind of more submissive. Just all around more sexual. Obviously these aren't true but we kinda this is in grain and you can see it in old disney movies and so i think that just plays a big part in our kind of ideas about men and women and so i think that's just made it so hard for men to kind of come out and yeah you know again. There's likes a lot of violence towards you know gay and trans communities in. I think that it would be scary for men to come out because people don't like it and you know adding onto that. Why is it that we feel we normalize women who tend to be who have masculine qualities because tomboys are cool. Tomboys play sports like them. They're they're athletes are jocks and even in heterosexual relationships when you talk about threesome. You always just assume it's two women. Yeah man and that yeah. Two women to women. It's highly sexualize so hot. Let's do it but it's never you never go your partners say let's have a threesome and your mans like yeah. Let me bring the other guy like. That's just a very rare though idea to people that have that happened. Good for them. Because i love that these moments can happen. But we normalize masculine women. But we don't normalize feminine straight men and even in hetero relationships. I've had girlfriends who say. I'm really trying to encourage my husband to tap into his feminine side like where address. Everyone's while paint your nails. Get your nails done. Let's get your hair blown outlets you need to feel what if feels like so that you get more in touch with that side. But that's only recently. I've never heard that before. So i'm i'm definitely on board with that. I would love to encourage my cartner to explore more of the feminine side. There's still a lot of shame. Associes i think that is where it comes down to and i think it is the stigmas of of the masculinity that we were talking about. But i think that's really difficult for a lot of people like that. Do actually want that. You know it's come to terms with that something that's quote unquote normal. And i think that is. I wonder if some of it is like the genitalia. Right like men's like a lot more. I don't know there's a soft you don't view when you're thinking of two people have exacts you don't like view women's genitalia as much at least at. This is just a hypothesis. Feel like you like. there's a stigma. i think of two bends penises versus to women's china's eg that's the right way to say it but it's more sexually out because maybe it's external versus internal. Yeah yeah like it's more in your face. Yeah exactly. Yeah i definitely worn industry has had some of like to you. Know of like really putting stereotype onto young boys who watch porn or you end women But i feel like there's a lot there too that i don't think i'm qualified to speak to but i know that there's something there i can definitely see that we didn't get into before.

01:05:08 - 01:10:01

But how would you describe like sex being different like while we're on that topic like this guy's yuliya legacybox being different. I guess just your sample of the oven. Genitalia like how detail as you'd like to get. I will get to to deal but i think it totally depends on. I think how close you are to the person like it can feel really emotional with women. It can feel just like. There's the sense of closeness that is just really intimate. It's very specific to two women. There's there's a softness. There's just like some intuition happening. It's very sensual in very sensitive not to say that you can't have that with a man too and i think that you can if you're very much on the same page maybe our love or just really really communicative with each other. But in general. I think at least in my experience. Some of the men that sucked with were not wanting to be intuitive. Didn't really want to pleasure. Means were. They were just very much focused on themselves whereas women in my experience were very much wanting to pleasure you wanting to like wanting you to feel all of the sensations that was a big difference for me whereas men were very focused on like what they were experiencing. How how can i. What can i get from this experience. It was usually cited but again. Not all men i mean. I've definitely not man. I feel like a lot of that. i've been with. That are not like that whatsoever. So this is like a generalization too. But i could see like the softer side. I think that makes a lotta sense. Yeah but you know women can also have like two women. Having sex with each other can very much have a similar sexual experience you know with toys with with added things in the bedroom. You can get very similar. Almost exact sensations as you would if it was just a man and a woman. So i think like the physical side you can. You can recreate non. That was never like a big a big thing for me because like the actual physical feelings of things. Were kind of the same interesting now. Like when you're with even the same sex but like when you're with two partners there's a slight difference but you know the basic mechanics. Were the same. Did you feel a huge shift when you went from women to man or was it kind of just opus. Two different person yet. They give at least for me. It was just a different person. I think i actually do know the first time. I slept with the women though i was very like i actually like watched like some porn. I do like what is it gonna like. They're like me. I did some research. Because i think the gay man or two men being together is much more visual and probably goes back to this like external versus internal like i feel like in the mia perception. You don't even necessarily like if you're not in the lgbtq plus community. I feel like sometimes you don't even know what sex would look like with two women exactly because we're not we're not shown would it looks like you know we're not ever shown in what you do see. Maybe in pornography in porn is like geared toward straight men for the most for the most. Brian lesbian porn may may maybe by women or other lesbians but in general. Like what you'll see on foreign hub or whatever. The sites are like it'll be just very male geared lesbian porn and that in my experience was very rarely. What actually happened in the bedroom. So what does happen. Can you give us any loved to okay. My play but high level. There's a there's a lot of tongue action and there's a lot of finger action loci yup. The cost you more detail. I can imagine. I mean it's basically like any anything that would stimulate you. Just get on all of us at sizzling was a thing like you like you know. Rub up on each other Like i said fingers are big one. That's like your dick is your is your hand your fingers in lots of tongue. Yeah yup and then toys and then and then depending on the couple They bring in a lot of choice. Yeah toys are good idea back no matter what julie. Do you have any more questions. What happens after. I think my imagination could go from there. What is some. i'm going to bring this back to just. Let's just wrap up before we get into some takeaways.

01:10:02 - 01:15:00

What some advice you would give to people who may be going through this identity shift and they're going through what you identified when you came out in high school and then when you dated a straight man. It's kind of like What is happening. Why is there so much confusion. What what would you say to someone who's going through that. Yeah i would say just be kind to yourself and be open like Just if you're having certain thoughts about your identity whether it's your sexuality or gender gender like just explore that and my biggest piece of advice is that there are resources out there. Like google is your friend. There are so many places to learn about these identities. And they're not you know there are communities author. That will help help you through it whether it's read it in tech talk like user community of friends like tv. Hbo has some great shows. There's definitely some. There's definitely resources out there for people. And i think that was what i used a lot of was like tv. Shows is the internet a lot to help me. And then also just talking about it. And i think i understand. That would be hard for a lot of people because maybe they live in areas that they can't talk about What's going on because it's definitely not something that you wanna talk about So to that. I say just like i don't know i mean explorer. You will move somewhere. That's a little bit more liberal and open minded. That might help us. Move out of there i did. I mean i grew up in san diego and does a wonderful place. But it's definitely a little bit more close minded in my experience So i moved san francisco when i was seventeen right away. Yeah that was a you have you. I'm sure you've thought about this. How you're gonna raise your daughter so that she stays open to all of this. Yes i mean. That's actually something i think about. Almost every day is like. How can i tell her like these. I don't wanna be give her too much information. But i do want to say like. I don't wanna say look at this pretty girl on this pages. Look at this pretty person you know. Nick could be Whatever they look. Like and i think that i'll just try and use more open language and then also just help guide her however things are kind of turning out and i think the big thing struggling with this even just like i'd like to put pink dresses on her. I liked to those on her. But that's a hard went as i'm studying. Philosophy is like. Where's that line of like auto. I continue to be really progressive in an open minded and like teach her that things aren't black and white but also like i are still live. I received presence day. There's things on tv that she's gonna see so yeah. I don't think. I have a clear answer. But i'll just kind of navigate it day by day and hope i do the right thing. That's my hey gender. Reveal party is so by. The way i know i called ours. Genital reveal party. Nearly what better though. Yeah that's what you're looking for right is when my baby's genitals are so we called it a genital review this. That's so great. But i think it's a language is. I'm watching the way i speak. And i've seen my friends raise her kids and they do the whole like i've dolls and trucks for you to play with you. Whatever and some days they choose one over the other it doesn't matter My other friends son. Who's like six years old to wear an also dressed school. He's like great go for and now. He wears address once a week as he loves it so much and none of the kids make fun of him. Because it's sort of normalizing. Yeah i love that. I think we're making so much progress. Yes it's going to create confusion with grandparents but after they die off. I think we're yes. Take away the future is sexual generation is only until that the future will be up. Yeah well that is a good segue to real. Take away the biggest. What that i had from. All of this is that nothing is forever. I think this is with identity whether it's your sexuality whether this is you know where you are in life. I think we need to stay open to the change in not feel like it's a phase or were stuck in something forever because that's how we've identified and i think it could be really hard and i think it's easier said than done sometimes moving to that next phase whether that's you know opening up your sexuality or just moving into a different life stage can feel really daunting because you're used to something but it's embracing the change and all the good that can come with it and not a guest brings me to the second takeaway have is not boxing us into one thing. I think that's the biggest thing and again. Does it eat. It could be sexuality but it could even be gender identity like.

01:15:00 - 01:20:08

I feel like we need to stop with this girls where paying two boys wear. Blue girls play with dolls. Boys play with trucks. I think that's really good that we're exposing people to all elements of their personality not putting people in a box just because of historic times that are quite frankly outdated and it's also it's like how do we. How do we cut heard this from your like. The gender reveal stopped. You're going through with your daughter. How do we balance the traditions that we want to keep in preserve but also stay open minded that the world is changing and be progressive in how we view people and how we view identity. We don't cling necessarily too old things just because we should but rather traditions because we want to I love that and At a very similar takeaways as you julie. which is. I think that we are. We negatively talk about phases. Oh it's just a phase just a phase win life is a series of fucking phases. Always go into a phase. I think it's a good thing. I think we can normalize phases right now. I'm a. I'm a straight woman in a hetero relationship but that could be a phase like that could all change. I'm not going to be tied to that. And i don't think we need to be tied to any of it. Because that's what is instigating oppression when we get tied to to the way things should be to the way people should be. That's when we get oppressive right. So i think phases is a good thing. Let's normalize it. You're going through a phase and good for you good for you My second take away from all of this is that i think we just need to pause before we make these generalizations or statements or conclusions more more often than not. You actually don't know why you're saying the things that you do. They you know they did this. Whole gender study back in the day of the baby. I think i've talked about on this. Podcast it's a baby. Next jack in the box and the jackson box come out in the baby was start crying and they told some participants at the baby was a boy some participant. The baby was a girl and they asked why the baby cry and the ones that thought it was a boy said oh he was angry and the ones that thought it was a girl said she was scared. So these are things like. We have no basis of all this. It's just what we've been fed in society so the best we can do right now is just take a pause before we speak were form thought and then we can go from there. I think just taking pause will go a long way for all of us. I think rethinking the feminine and masculine too. I mean that's like another whole conversation another day. But i feel like that whole piece like it just puts us in that box so much in what we've said today is people are people. That's the beauty of pan sexual. It's falling for the person as a person and maybe hey it opens up your pool of prospects significantly south. The futures fads actual. I really do i agree. I love eddie Closing remarks anything that you took away. this is like your day to day but like anything that you've gathered from this convoy genesis. Yeah what did you learn from us. Other than julie. Love sex questions you know. I think it's always just reaffirming kind of like. We're all always learning about ourselves day to day. I'm continuously learning about myself. And i think just having patients and like kindness for people that might be going through something or our entering a new phase or entering new version of themselves that they previously didn't know was possible. Just like really having empathy for each other. We'll go a long way and push us towards our future of fans actuality very well yes said. Thank you so much for sharing your story and your journey. I had known to a tiny moment of it. I didn't get the full picture so now. I'm so happy that i've heard the full story and your husband is fantastic. I can attest to badge person a for all of our listeners. If you like to share your story about a journey you're going through especially when it comes to gender and sexuality we love to have you as a guest on our show because we can only highlight one person's story at a time so the more we highlight the more diversity of stories we can get and we recognize not anybody can can represent the entire gender or these entire sexuality but at least you can represent your story and that is your story to tell you want commit to be a guest on our show disco. Dateable podcast dot com. While you're on the internet just head to apple podcast give us five star reviews right along nice blurb or so you know it's it's not hard at all and and it takes five seconds but it really helps us because it builds trust between us and our guests so someone like genesis can come on our show and say i trust these girls. I'm going to tell the my story and we reveal everything except for or was stops at what point.

01:20:08 - 01:22:09

There's a line. I will dry like but we do really appreciate those reviews. They do do us a lot of good for our show so with that. Shall we wrap the saw. Data all the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Five more podcast. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag us in any post with the hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those post then. Head over to our website dateable podcasts dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums for also downloadable. For free on spotify apple podcast. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable. Foll- means a tunnel breezes and vibrant earthy colours. it also means fall. Allergens bacteria n particles coming into your home so swap out your old age back air filter with a phil. Treat air filter from a retailer near you. Let's clear the air now streaming on disney plus space travel is something few people experience but to get there. It takes a massive effort from teams around the globe. Joint astronaut captain chris cassidy and his team of astronauts as they put their lives on the line in journey to the international space station for christmas final mission. It's a once in a lifetime. Look into the vast world of nessa in the team behind the mission among the stars original documentary series now streaming only on disney plus.