S13E3: Confessions of a Reformed Ghoster

00:00:01 - 00:05:13

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello beautiful people. Oh welcome to another episode of the dateable podcast. We beautiful people. Even though we can't see you it's a podcast but we hear you. We see the messages for anyone new joining us. What is digital podcast. We are we talk about everything that encompasses modern dating and we dive deep into the wise of people's behavior. But we have something very exciting for you. All that we're gonna share a little bit later is with the why comes to how well it will just a little bit later. Tuned to the end of this intro will will tell you exactly what that is but so many of you have reached out and said love your weatherwise now. How do we get to the house. yeah the how. How but i think our listeners are beautiful. People we see all at our facebook ray of even though maybe not physically. I love our listeners. Just how genuine everyone is. I think that's the word that always comes to mind. Genuine introspective empathetic socially available. Little all of it all of the say yes and the way people come upon our podcast is just so interesting to. Maybe you've found out about a through a friend. Maybe you hurt us on a podcast. Cardi listen to or a lot of you just did a random search on the internet's and you found us that way and so many of you come to us because you're experiencing crossroads in your life when it comes to data Whether that comes getting in or getting out of something whether that becomes just wanting a change or something you just want answers direction or clarity. We welcome everybody from all walks of life from all situations. all crossroads. This is why we do this. Podcast is just so we can all explored this crazy journey together. I definitely think that a lot of folks come after a break up or after a move to a new city like some monumental shift. But i think we're going into ghosting today. We're going to actually have one of the members of our community. We'd love sourcing from the community. Kendra who has posted a lot about admitting to be a ghost ghostbuster so a lot of times. We hear of the people that are upset that they're getting ghosted. But very rarely. Do we have the opportunity to talk to someone that fully admits and owns it has overcome it. So we're super excited to do this episode. Because i think this is something that most of you have probably experienced in modern dating. What is it like. Eighty percent of people have been ghosted in moderating reported. Go stay yes and then the other twenty percent just didn't want omit that they've experienced. It's one of those bullshit things we all experience and then they had to put a term to it. You know it's like a thing you're like. Oh yeah i've been ghosted. It's the normalized because irs the word for it. Well fuck that. We're here to show you that. There is a very ugly side of ghosting. Especially of your perpetual go sir and having kendra on this episode while shed some light on the personal journey. She's gone through to help us through kind of the ramifications of ghosting people. And i think she's the first to admit that it's never great to ghost much. I think this did shed some light on an alternative perspective of what internal struggle. Someone may be ghosting. And i think a lot has. We're always thinking that someone's out to get us in dating and often times. That really has nothing to do with us. I stumbled across a new dating term this weekend. No idea to share with you. it is kind of. I don't know if it is kind of repulsive dating term. iv gets really bad. I saw this on the new york post so clearly. A rep reputable source but it came up like off by google homepage and it was row. Ching is the new gross trend to invest the dating world. That was the headline. Oh can you guess what it means to take a stab before reveal. Is that when you is that when you date multiple people and then leave them in the dusts basically like so close our it is with that you're dating multiple people in it's basically when you realize that in fact there are many other lovers you where there's like one roach then there becomes more and more so when the lights come on and you basically know that there's all these roaches here so it's inspired by the itchiness of seeing one of those nasty little bugs but knowing when you turn the lights on there are lots of them.

00:05:13 - 00:10:03

So maybe you'd think that like your person is like one other person. I think it says that you could feel like you're being broached if the person is not available present to you Maybe t find out. There's one person and there's two people and so on. So i feel like dating has the worst name storm it that is just such a gross term to it just makes me feel things in my body that i don't want to feel disgusted by it. Maybe it will discourage people from bad behavior. 'cause it's so freaking gross and no one wants to be like i am roe ching or being rigged. Oh so some copy like are you fucking wrote me right now and yeah and the other person would be like. Oh sure wow. This term does reminds me so much of new york. I just came back from yesterday. It's not even just the roach is self. I saw so many fucking cockroaches and brought me to time. When i lived in new york and there'd be roaches in my apartment on a regular basis but it also brought me back to a time where i experienced all the terrible dating behavior because new york is a breeding ground for that. Kinda shit p mon roach. All the time. And i met up with a friend of mine who is experiencing this exact thing. She's gone on four dates with a guy at their things were great etc but he was never available available. He would be like okay. Let's go thursday and you don't hear from him but then on saturday he's like. Hey are you free now. So she threw no he wouldn't even. There's no explanation is just oh you want. Do you wanna hang out saturday. And said and they. She said on their last date together. Their fourth date was on a friday night. He sent her home like eight. Pm or nine pm after dinner was a you know what i think. We're done got her car and sent her home and she's like what's this. Yes in new york a friday night. He probably went to roach other women. That's the second shift but it was it. Was you you that was saying that like when you were new york you had a friend either. Was this person data. This person that basically had someone like every barberie borough. Yes yes because people like tend to stay in their neighborhoods. So i had. I had a dating client who thought he could get away with it because he can't be in different burroughs with different women and it be a different vibe and the chances of running into the other women will be very slim at which is true unfortunately in new york it is very true but that is like the most quintessentially disgusting thing about new york dating and i hope our listeners who are dating in new york Shed some light on this. Because when i went back this last week not much has changed because the city itself just lends itself to the bad dating behavior. Well it's so big. And i feel like you may think that people you'll never see someone again. Although i have heard from people that live in new york. I've never lived there myself. That people do Tend to run in similar circles and can see each other yet. I would assume on the apps might be people that you're never crossing pass with so you would probably continue to never cross paths therefore cut of excuses that behavior. So it's like. Oh well. I'm never going to see them anyways. Right exactly and new york hostas weird reputation right. It's got this reputation that men have so many options because was yeah women and men so they can roach. They can do all the stupid things that people do. When it comes to dating but then on the other hand. I was speaking to all my single nail friends in new york. They say the women are brutal. Their room they would go to experienced so much rejection that they become numb to rejection at this point a guy friend of mine told me this he said at bars. This literally happened to him. He goes up to a woman before he could say anything. She sticks our hand goes our that is ruthless. Nope don't you think about iraq. To the point misinterpretation there and he says happened to him more than once that he's just numb to it he's like all right onto the next. So did you feel like you got ghosted. More when you lived in new york versus when you lived in were single. I think so. Also because i also ghosted people it just sounds everything felt leading. That was on magical date with someone the next morning you wake up and you kind of are on the next train you know. Yeah don't yet. There's no sense of like repetition because there's just so many people in new york that if you goes one person onto the next it's like easy to bounce back so that's why feel like it.

00:10:03 - 00:15:06

Breeds that kind of behavior totally. I could see the paradox of choice being real hard there. It is such like talk about temptation. Island men have my hesitation island. But damn i'm just thinking if i were single and just landed in manhattan. Oh my gosh just the just the damage i wanna do by favorite ghost story happened to be and us was also involved in the story and this one could talk. Because like if we're going to go from opposites to what we were just talking about in new york. I feel like in san francisco. I'm people go all the time. Not saying that. San francisco's immune to it. But it's a much smaller city. It's seven miles by seven miles and the bulk of people live in certain neighborhoods. So i feel like the odds of running into someone is high. Yes which should discourage ghosting. It doesn't always but you would think it would. I remember i went on this magical date taught connected to this guy on linked in we were in the same industry that we're still connected of lake. Did which is ridiculous. But we had so many connections that you would think like you wouldn't get ghosted by this person and we had what i thought was like that date that you like. Share everything about you. We have a case at the end we had planned saddam. You were so i didn't even cross my mind. I were ghosted. Yes at all right so the next day. He texted me like he was the one initiating chatting either. I had to be like. Hey i can't talk anymore. i'm at work i remember. I opened my app on like that saturday. This was like thursday friday and saturday. Open my app. He's no longer there. And i'm like okay. Know it's a little weird. But i know people have different behaviors of unmatching people if they met up. Or whatever and sunday rolls around and i text him and i was just like something simple like. How's your we again but are already suspecting something at that point too because i thought it was weird that i wasn't in the app i mean i. It crossed my mind that maybe he just felt very so hard that he deleted that. That did not cross my mind. But i was like. This is a little weird. That i've god from the app like i did think that was weird but i texted him not thinking that it was him ghosting. I think i was just like. Oh everything okay. Yeah or not even that. I think i was just like. How's your weekend. Like i wasn't even because he attacks to be all day friday so it wasn't that weird and then just nothing. Okay so mike okay. you know. Sometimes that happens. Monday rolls around nothing. We had planned. Set you up so it was. We had made the plan on friday. Or maybe it was even in person. I can't remember we have the actual plan set up for that coming thursday. We add date number two in the books and monday rolls around. Nothing tuesday rolls out. Nothing and i'm like. Should i reach out to this guy like this is super weird so i like head him up again. Nothing nothing and i was like baby like something happened to him. You know who provides there and of course you. Aba but good friend she is. She's like. I'm going to get on this and help you out to catch a ghost. I was just so pissed. I was just so pissed. Because why would you set up plans with someone and then not follow through. That is so you just don't do that with france. You don't do that with strangers. You just don't do that as a respectable human beings so i didn't like that on human being level and i do love that you guys ended the day with so much excitement that there was just no. I don't understand what could possibly happen to change his mind. So i was like. I gotta get to the bottom of this and for those who've heard this story before it never gets old right. It never gets old. I'm very good at fake profiles. Joe's the queen of it. I did it. I create a fake profiles. A new york to catch ex-boyfriends or catch just to catch a. But i was able to create one with a photoshop of a very ethnically ambiguous woman. I love it. None of the photos were the same person either. I basically combined photos of two of my friends who are mixed race and then i created this profile. That's very neutral right. she's not. She made her a graphic designer. Like all the like neutral. Not not polarizing at all and so. I created this account and i was like okay. I'm gonna find this guy and julie's like millionaire you're gonna find. I know zillions of people bubble. And so i saw swiping at first when i saw swiping it was purely for this guy but then i kind of immerse myself girl and i thought who else can i swipe on.

00:15:07 - 00:20:02

I suppose. Start a swiping on people. I knew she did finally find him somehow. I don't know how did have four an hour of that long. It was surprising. How fast you do it was. I was very diligent. I found him. And i send it to julia. It's the fucker and jewelers like yes. It is and of course we match we match right. That is the beauty of this story. Is that we match almost right away. He's still on. Bumble is what. I found out match almost right away and we sir messaging so i thought well if they were supposed to have a date on thursday what i was hoping to do is trying to get him to ask me out and i would suggest thursday so we start texting but he was very slow responses but it didn't matter because bumble has location tracking so creepy. What we are able to see where he was first of all. We establish that he's still alive. He was alive he was again he was responding and then second we were able to establish whether he was at work which was in the city or a home because that was outside the city so we see throughout the day that he was traveling so he's traveling from work and home being normal do so we are talking and we were. I was trying to flirt with him but also not trying to be too aggressive. He never asked me out though he never had the ask. Ask out very slow to respond. I was not able to trap him trapped. A few of my guy friends that's and while he was really slow to respond. I'm also talking to this couple right now out of your like. They're a little more interesting that he is. Actually i bite shift over there but you also failed to venture that your fake person had like one hundred percent success rate so you were just baffled. Why this guy was not taking the bait. The profile i created against not polarizing. She's very attractive. Also all different types of people would like her including couples. I'm i just wanted to see. It was actually a really interesting experiment. Because of the week that i did this. Nobody asked me out. Everyone was down this texting black hole of like what he do. What do you like to do for fun. There was in fact one guy. I was speaking to that. I liked so much about my upbringing. And coincidentally was also his uttering named the small highschool randomly fresno who who's from fresno first of all that is down the street for me. I grew up. I grew up next to the high school. Do you know blah blah blah. I couldn't believe that so if you aren't getting response you want. It's probably being a trial on bubble. I i was the best rule ever very. You're trying to take it off on it. You're it. But i did eventually text him again and was like hey like if things changed for you all you needed to say was that i still hold that true. It's like yes. I thought it was a great connection. The reality was we met each other for two hours but then he never resided back to that now and i think that's the part i'm saying it's like i just feel like it's such a simple thing that you could just be like. Hey things change for me. And i did find him on instagram. Because we knew who he was and it was clear that he entered a new relationship or my theory went back to an old again has never really completely out of it regardless it looks like this person was like further along because it happened very fast so i think a lot of times. There is a lot of that going on with dating. just people are just like testing out the waters. But i think you just. I don't know it's just like weird to me still that you just wouldn't be up front with someone and say that and i think people like to keep the option open by not saying anything but i'm sorry you're losing the option if you're playing those carts like what is he gonna do message a month. It'd be like no you fell off the face of the universe people fucking forget. Even if you're in a big city word to travel and girlfriends talk and of you do something shitty. They will tell their friends and you will get that reputation even in a city like new york. This happens to so. Don't think you can get away with shitty behavior. No matter who you are so you ask for higher. She will two thousand dollars an hour. No big deal. But she's ready. She has the profile. You know what. I was thinking about it because i definitely got ghosted other times than just this. This wasn't the boat this one hit me the hardest for whatever reason because it was so unexpected.

00:20:02 - 00:25:02

But i've definitely been ghosted before in the realities. I can't remember any of those people's names. And i think at the end of the day i'm with someone i'm crazy about now. It doesn't matter like in. You just celebrated your three year anniversary. Which is what brought you to new york. So all the people that ghosted you like they were just kind of they. You know they were on your fast to get to where you d to be there. Little roaches Just yeah i roach is that i don't recall. I remember. they did not need to be in my life. That's all get them out of here. That's so how was the university richer while we're on the topic. That trip was fantastic. You can't go wrong in new york. And i feel like every time i go to new york. I don't sleep because you just have so much energy. All the time without drugs is like why is it so much energy. I will say this though as an anniversary trip. I wish we had done something different. Because we both have so many friends in new york Ended up being. Like a catch up with fran. And i didn't feel like romantic or we were connecting with each other. It was more like. Hey i want you to meet these friends and you an i meet your friends which is nice but not for an anniversary trip. I also. This was also an interesting observation. Is that you know we've been together for three years but to my new york friends. He's like a new guy in my life because a whole year and a half of cova. Obviously we didn't come to new york and before that we were together for you know less than a year so i wasn't gonna bring him to new york to meet friends then so three years later. They're just now meeting him. They still consider him brand spanking new to me. We've been together for a long time so that was interesting because of time right just observation. I totally see that because he would like feel like obligated almost to like be with people whether you like went somewhere secluded. It's like jesse you rise. Yeah yeah. I just want to explore somewhere somewhere new with my partner. We can catch those memories together And i gave them feedback on our last day. I was just like you know. Didn't didn't feel like an anniversary trip. So we're going to do a do over. We're going to go somewhere we have. This is my many. I love it there you go. That's the beauty is. It never needs to be fatal. I still can't believe it's been three years. I've i've met him from the very start. I just baffled. But it's been that long. Like i know it has been went by in a blip thing kovin. I think cova just slow time down. Save yeah it feels like it took some years away But i will. I do wanna give shout out to his friend steve who i met. Who's been listening to dateable on his box in new york steve. Hi julie julie. Something just steve. I'd like to hear if everything checks out. But i'm assuming you might be her source so probably sivas fantastic. Thanks so much for listening to the show and it's always fun to get feedback from people who listen. I feel like a lot of my friends who listen to dateable really love that diverse stories. The diverse perspectives. Just hearing how other people date is not only just helpful but makes them feel like they're not alone in this whole thing so back. Well that's i think maybe feedback we do not like and we hate this part. They really don't like well. I mean i definitely have friends who don't listen to any of the episodes that don't apply to them. Specifically which is we've heard that feedback as well but we will also encourage you to listen to all the episodes go back. Listen to all the episodes. You skipped. Because i bet you you'll learn more from those episodes not yet. Yes and we'll keep doing episodes on ghosting and similar behaviors. Because these never get old these stories never get old and kendra stories are so unique from her perspective as the goester that we thought that this was actually a little different than the other ghosting stories and this is related to our question for this episode. Which is how do you respond to people who've ghosted you. Is there a text that you should be sending to them after the ghost. I personally think a great way is to exactly what julie did in the story. She just told is. I had a really great time. I was looking forward to our next time together. If things have changed just please let me know. And i will totally understand but would love a response of some sort you know i mean. I think that is a good way to approach. People always say like. Should i even reach out. I not i think first of all you need to make sure you are being ghosted. I think sometimes like there is changing gender norms. All the time. Sometimes people are waiting for things to happen.

00:25:02 - 00:30:01

Maybe the other person is waiting to so first step is make sure. You're actually being ghosted. If you send a your weekend going or some sort of question text in do not reply in enough time goes by maybe not like twenty minutes but a day goes by you can maybe assume. You're being ghosted. So first step is make sure you are also having confidence to be like if someone's going to go s- me and they don't want to be with me like that. I want someone that can communicate. Well that's more to be in a relationship in this person's basically showing me. They cannot his. They cannot have that conversation that things have changed for them. For whatever reason so. I've definitely sent a text to someone that was like i had a really great time with you. Keeping it upbeat. I'm looking for someone that is the communicative and responsive and don't know if there was a miscommunication somewhere but if not best of luck like basically closing the loop until giving them an opportunity because there's always there has been text glitches or whatever might be. I've definitely had that happened before. So it's not like that couldn't happen but you're kinda giving an opportunity for someone to be like away. This did get messed up. But you're not going into the text like trying to change their mind or do anything. It's kind of just to be like. I like to send it. Because i'm like trying to help humanity every coaster in that like this is an okay and some people might say like you don't need a send any tax i think ultimately it's up to you. I don't think you're gonna get like a different response when you send something like this bore of saying i recognize what you're doing in this is not okay and like you should think about how you're affecting other people and that's important to know. Is that send us tax without expecting a response back that most important part of this piece because do not sit by your phone waiting for any sort of response more times than not. They're probably not going to respond. But what you are doing is letting them know what they've done that you acknowledge what they've done and how it's affected you and even though you don't know how it's affecting them. They saw that message and they will have to think about it. And hopefully they'll do less of it because they nobody wants to get get a message like that right calling them out like that so just so you know you might not get a response. You are planting the seed in their head hopefully minimizing their bad dating behavior in the future. Absolutely and i think ultimately you don't wanna be dating this person that can allocate anyway so definitely. Don't go in thinking that you're gonna change them. People say like. I don't need to send that message in. I think that's valid if you don't if you really can move for without sending the message the action in the outcome isn't gonna change at all. It's just getting it off your chest. I'm personally the type of person that likes to get it off by chess. So i can move forward so it hasn't. I'm not doing it for them. I'm doing it for myself but again. That's a personal. Take of what works for you. Yes yes and don't go into it too aggressively in. Don't try to lame them or attack them. You're just shedding some light on how you feel and acknowledging what they've done and we talked about it in the episode of what. The definition of ghosting in is an intimate relationship but at least it our opinion. Just interactions on a app. The you haven't met the person doesn't qualify as that so i personally don't wouldn't send the hat unless it was someone i met in person. Yeah cool all right. Shall we move onto. Announcements are big announcement. So we talked about the y. Y y this is how we intro every episode because we want to get to the bottom people's behavior but then once you figure out the why how. How do you implement the learnings. How do you get people to change their behavior. How do you change your own behavior. And we've been working on something for the last few years believe it or not covert really lit a fire under our asses to get this in an order. We truly feel like we crack the code on love. Believe it or not and we've tested this out on ourselves. Obviously the two of us are in loving relationships. And it's because we've implemented some the learnings we've been for the last five years and cracking. The code doesn't exactly mean hacking the system or shortcuts to love. It just means we figured out step by step approach to building up your confidence building up this feeling and atmosphere and this life where you can create and find the love of your life and we truly truly believe in this because we have seen it for ourselves.

00:30:01 - 00:35:03

We've also seen it for some of our members and listeners so couple of ways to get all the announcements sign up for email. List go table. Podcasts dot com Follow us on instagram at dateable podcasts. Join our facebook group love and the time corona by dateable podcast though started the places we will be making the announcement first before we announce it in other channels awesome. So the how how here we come in keeping it a secret for so long so glad that we can finally out into the universe alad. The world's yes okay. Let's get into some of our sponsors this week. This episode is sponsored by better help. It is no surprise julian. I are huge fans of therapy especially online therapy and better help can do exactly just that they match you with your own licensed therapist and connect you in a safe and private online environment. I was able to start communicating with my therapist in less than forty eight hours. Superfast better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches and it's more affordable than traditional offline. Counseling they're licensed professionals specialize in everything from stress management anxiety trauma dating and grief. We adaptable wish for all of you to live a happier more wholesome life and we think therapy and prioritizing. Your mental health will accomplish that so as our listener. You'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash. Dateable join over. One million people have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help. H. e. l. p. dot com slash dat ab l. e. This episode is made possible by lugs. Miss the golden age of the nineties lugs found its footing as a leader within the footwear and fashion space priding itself on quality materials and supreme comfort. The brand never wavered with the passing of trends whether you remember the brand's early appeal within the hip hop culture where the countless celebrity endorsements one thing remains the same lugs distinctive style. Julian both have a few different styles of shoes ranging from their ecomog boots to their canvas sneakers even though they're so different in style one thing remains the same there also comfortable and light. I love my flirt. Hides it boots that i can wear with cute summer. Dresses and my canvas sneakers go so perfectly with my jeans and t-shirts fun comfortable everyday where realistically price and affordable so go treat yourself. You can never have too many pairs of lugs exclusively for our beautiful listeners. Get thirty percent off full price items now by going to lugs dot com and entering the code. Dateable again that's l. Dot com and entering the code d. a. t. e. e. for thirty percents off full price items. Okay let's hear it from kendra a reformed booster julie. Don't you just love sourcing. Guests from our community absolute. It isn't ethanol or guests and this is a topic that we've been wanting to cover for a long time because we often hear about the ghost. St the person who gets ghosted right and of course. Nobody likes that. But we never hear from the ghosts. Her were turning the tables today. Because we have someone here who is a self proclaimed reformed go sir. So we'll see how reformed she is but she is our community. Her name is kendra. She's in her early thirties. She's currently in chandler. Arizona moved there six months ago. She's a new homeowner. Has fives all around and technically from illinois by you moved to arizona. When you a small so you probably don't remember much illinois but she's single and actively going on dates what's up kendra. Hey well you know. Everybody has their stereotypes of what a goester looks like and acts like and you would never guess we should just means that everyone is guilty does so tell us about cadre. You've admitted to via serial ghost her many posts in the facebook group around this. Qe here maybe like one or two of your go stir stories. Would you were the perpetrator. Yeah i actually. I have to kind of stick out in my head And both of them they called me out on it. Which i feel is probably stuck out but so one of them. I had gone on a couple of dates. I wanna say two or three With him and he was really nice. It just wasn't you know there wasn't that deeper connection that i was looking for in I feel like those. Were the times where i was most likely to ghost when i come out and be like oh. This guy was kind of a right. Our which which. I know sounds worst because those are the ones who deserve explanation but Yeah so he would you know.

00:35:03 - 00:40:01

Try to text me after a while. I just kind of stopped responding to him and he actually ended up after a couple of days. Messaging me and he just goes. Hey so. I'm really not into ghosting. And i feel like this isn't going anywhere like very blunt about it. Yeah i know i. It's it's one thing that i look back like. Yeah great good for you for you. Know calling me out so he he just texted me any said. Hey i'm really not into ghosting and it doesn't seem like this is going anywhere so i just wanted to make sure that we both have closure. I wish you the best you know. Good law and like a and i did respond. I responded to that one. Of course i was like okay. Thanks you too when you know that. That was it. How many dates had you been on with him. two or three. I can't remember so it was definitely more than one but not a ton of dates so why why not just even reach out and tell him that that emotional collection wasn't there like what was it. That made you feel that you didn't want to do that. I think i you know. I've been through a lot of therapy since then. I've done a lot of work on myself and it had nothing to do with him. You know it was more so just a matter of I in my head. I didn't want to hurt his feelings. I didn't want to say something. I didn't want to be the bad guy it was. I guess. Just in avoidance of conflict. Would you have wanted to say to him and you know now. I've gotten into the habit when i really know that. It isn't somebody that i wanted eight. I even have a couple versions of the same text saved in my phone. It helps alan template. Yeah i tweak it you know a little bit but if that had happened today you know and i actually been going on dates actively in things really haven't been handing out and so i do especially when they're a decent person. I will just say something. Like i had a really great time with you. And you're really great guy but this just you know. I'm not feeling the connection that i'm looking for. I wish you the best though. Take care but what do you think you would have wanted to say to that guy in particular. If you were being perfectly honest about why things didn't work out your why. Our conversations were just surfaced in. I felt like after you know after two to three dates. You should dig deeper. And he talked about work ally and they're just it was. Hey how're you doing. Whether it's been crazy you know just nothing deeper than that. And i hit even tried to dig deeper with him a little bit and he would just brush it off and so it just seemed like he wasn't too deep person. I crave that deeper connection and then with the other notable one that calls you out was a similar situation or was it a different scenario that actually we That's my ex-boyfriend yeah. I had ghosted him several times and it was. I mean that was the peak of bad behavior and it was interesting. Because he and i had kind of connected you know. We started dating at the very beginning of my therapy journey. And so he kind of went on this journey with me and there would be times where it just. It felt too intense. That was almost the exact opposite where you know we had this really strong connection at the very beginning in it freaked me out and i was running from it and so i would just start responding to him. We went on a date. Had a really great date and then he wanted to go on a second date. And i like freaked. I just didn't respond. And then yeah that was and then i got drunk one night and i like you know called him and it was so bad the resurrection. That's how to make amends and it's funny though because after kind of me doing this a couple times he was like i would like to ask you out on another date but every time i do that you just ghost manzi he really liked called me out on it and i was in the aviation industry at the time so i kind of jokingly was like oh yeah you know like dating people in the nation industry have to be careful because we're a flight risk. He was able. I think he and i have talked about it. You know since then when we were in a relationship we talked about kind of that beginning and for him he felt that connection to and he was like usually. I just would've left it alone because we did both feel that connection. It was something that he did continue to pursue. And i think that because he kind of took that community like he opened the door to the communication and even when when i told them like kind of tend to be a flight risk and it was like after he called me out on it in after he opened up that communication. It really allowed four meters Him know when. I'm feeling kinda flighty you know. And so he you know we would take a step back and he was very patient with me and he was just just really great about kind of reading in meeting me at my comfort level. Which isn't something i mean.

00:40:01 - 00:45:18

I feel like if you get ghosted like you have every right to just walk away and never talk to that person again but if you have do feel that stronger connection with somebody in it is something that you want to pursue it. He was really able to open up. That communication line in it was something that then became Something that we could work on you know. And he was very patient about it. So i take that you did not ultimately while that's been goes someone you've been together three years later i go to He asked me what. What's for dinner and i just never texted a no. And that's i've never been in like a real you know in a relationship where we were established. We've gotten past the dating. As i never ghosted somebody not there's any okay or appropriate time to goes to someone but god it so it's more like the early stages and it sounds like from what i'm gathering. It's when you're avoiding situation whether that's that you're not interested or that you're overwhelmed by how interested you may be again like that. Avoidance of its conflict its rejection. You know there's there's a lot going on there in all of it had to do with me and like my fears in my personal hangup and it didn't matter what type of person that other person was. It had nothing to do with who they were as a person and everything to do with kind of my shortcomings. Do you describe identify as having avoid attachment style. I actually have not avoided. What is it anxious. It's no like where you're kind of is it a fearful avoided Yeah so some. It can kind of go both ways And now i do lean a lot more secure again that lets you know. Years of their. I'm thirty one right now. I started therapy when i was twenty. Six or twenty seven in. That's regular therapy. Where there have been times where i've gone multiple times a week once a week. You know so if this has been years of therapy now to where i would describe myself as being much more on the secure attachment side he before there was kind of a fearful avoidance attachment style. Fearful vojnovic is like the six percent like the lowest of the group. I mean this six percent. How did if feel the time that you ghosted someone. Did you feel any remorse. Did you feel bad or did you get to a point where you did enough that you just were just numb to it yet There was definitely never a time where i like numb to it. Was you know. I always felt guilty. I always knew that like this wasn't the right thing to do. And it was really an inability to face conflict. I was so non-confrontational and there have been some things you know in. My childhood really made me very conflict. Avoidance that just you know seeped into every day things but yeah i. I always felt that. I always you know it was something that i i wish i could have had. Better communication skills You know in those moments. But i just. I didn't know how to communicate something that was contrary to what the people that i was interacting with wanted to hear. That was a very difficult thing for me. Did you find that you were like conflict avoiding and other parts of life to with family and friends do you ever like equivalent of ghosts like if there is a good issue you just kinda not confront it. Yeah it's funny too because even growing up Might i wasn't just known as like a dating ghost or even in my family dynamic like if there was a conflict in the house that didn't have anything to do with me. It was like my dad would sometimes make comments that like there would kind of just be that tension in the house and then all of a sudden i would disappear it just. I wasn't comfortable with it. End conflict in general was not my forte. I think in most every part of my life except you know business but when it came to you know personal friendships jeff. You just run away. yeah i was. I was a runner. He as risk and all those years of ghosting. Did you ever run into someone that you ghosted. No well lucky you. We're maybe they saw you and they're like. Oh that's girl that ghosted me run away. So have you ever been ghosted like Flip sides you know. It's really funny. As i just got ghosted this week. Oh karma is a bitch is it. How did how did you feel like were you like i get it or you like disappointed. Still i mean yes. Both we had been. I think i had found him on. Hinge hinder tinder. But we had had good conversation for about three weeks and he asked for my phone number and we took it off line to you know phone number and we were just texting and he asked me to go get drinks Need pushing it.

00:45:18 - 00:50:09

But he asked me to get drinks. And i told them. Hey y'all a guy. He actually to coffee end so i told them. I'm free on sunday morning. If you're available and i haven't heard from this coming sunday or the there. Oh sorry so you're like ample time has gone by. The conversation was thursday. I think for me when i get ghosted. I have a little bit more empathy than i think. A lot of people tend to get upset. But i mean i didn't do anything you know. It wasn't shoes. Conversation was going great. I look at that and see that it. You know i was literally. It was just a response to his question. And so i think it might be easier for me to kind of emphasize in also getting out a bid. I know that just in general right now. Meeting up is scary Donna or some people. So i think a little bit of grace goes a long way even if you're not a previous coaster. Okay let's take a quick break from all this great discussion for a few messages. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you wanna make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reentered the dating seed. Maybe you've gone on one too. Many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board. A true extension of our podcast delivers a personalized experience which includes one on one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating sherpas us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcasts. Dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo with any other reasons that you would ghost outside. I mean obviously conflict avoidance was the big one and just. It's overwhelmed feeling. Was there ever a time for instance that you got in a relationship with someone else or you started pursuing another person. Who didn't want to have that convoy someone or was it. Were there anything else you can think of no inc. i. I don't typically like date multiple people at the same time because i know that does come up some time where people don't want to have that conversation of. Hey i found somebody better. But i have thought about. I think for me the way that i kind of aunt myself up to have conflicts is nowadays. I do spend a lot of times saying okay. What if i have to have a plan before the conflict even happens in. So i have thought about that. Even what would i do if you know if i did have feelings for another person and i think in the end like it. I don't think it necessarily matters what your reason is further. Not wanting to talk to them you know but to just be able to give somebody closure in general you don't have to you know right A dear diary to them but it just even a generalized. Hey this is. This is how i'm feeling did do it respectfully in you. Don't have to give them the xyz of of why it's not working out Comfortable and then. I don't obviously years and years of therapy like what got you to that revelation though that like this actually isn't that big a deal to send this text. I think it was. It was small practices in having my own boundaries. You know small okay what. Why are you feeling this way. Because i feel like if i give somebody a boundary in general lake. I feel like they're just gonna explode in and it was like. Oh as spoke this out loud to my therapist about lake How do you feel. What do you feel like is going to happen. And then i only they're gonna hate me in visit the worst thing in the world because you don't you're wanting to end something with somebody anyway. Even if they do dislike you know it was just kind of coming to that realization that this worst case scenario you get. It'll be okay even not everyone has to like you and so it just got to the point where it was just taking those small steps even would start setting little boundaries in the beginning lake Actually there was one thing julie that you had said in a previous podcast about kind of setting boundaries early and just telling them even before it gets to the person about hey. I'm not always comfortable like with physical times in in the beginning Just for the first few days and so even to just little boundaries and see how they're responding to that And then it was like oh people don't react the way i thought in my head and you know they're not acting outlandish in there.

00:50:09 - 00:55:03

I mean the vast majority of the time now. When i say i'm not interested good luck. It's like oh thanks you too right. There's no conflict. It's not a big deal like they actually before that. If i just ghosted you know. Was there any one particular instance that made you want to become a reformer goester. Something big and we near like a big event or just a culmination of all these events. I think it was. It was a culmination of those events. i think it really started with just kind of being frustrated that i everything would get pent up for me like i'm not speaking any needs. I'm not speaking my boundaries. I'm not letting people know when i'm uncomfortable with them. When i don't wanna see them anymore and it was just that kind of me not really being able to. I guess exist in my own space or feeling comfortable existing and so i think it was just more a culmination of of everything in really just an even in my family dynamic. We're not a family of communicators you. If there is a conflict win my family you know with our parents or something. It's just okay. Everyone stays radio silence until we're up. I just didn't have a good toolbox. You know of of communication devices to begin with. And so i think as an adult heart of being an adult. Is you know kind of realizing what you do have to work with in finding the tools that you need to kind of standing in member of you know of society and just be debatable right. Exactly yeah to me. I think a lot of people's juggle with this. I think at the root of it is that we are not talk communication and we have built up era. Always think it's funny when people extend the text message though like when you don't actually like if you haven't initiated and someone sends the tax that's like hey i don't think this is gonna be a fad. Feels like preemptive like what is your thought about like double ghosting like if neither party. Do we think that's ghosting or do we think that's Proper etiquette to let it fade out. You know it's funny because that's happened to me a relatively recently to where we were texting after even after the date and then we just you know it was like okay. Good night the neither one of us texted in the next morning. I was kind of ready to send that text. But i got the You know the date was just kinda colden. So i was like well is interested than all all. Tell him by. I almost felt like it was mutual. In so i was ready to send the text template but he never ended up reaching out either. Honestly like i know for me. Who's very fearful of conflict. Even now it was just kind of like that polit- you know but it's a weird line to draw because at some point it is ghosting and at some point is just completely unnecessary communication. Oh ten where do you draw the line. I feel like regardless of where you are in dating with with this person. I feel like there always a good. The other person always deserves some sort of closure even if it is maybe a little earlier on but it doesn't have to be like. Hey i just don't see us. Having a connection it could just be. I've had a really great time with you Maybe maybe i'm just not in a. Maybe i just don't see us as a fit. But thank you for for the time that we spent together like. Everyone deserves a little bit of closure. Yeah addo my personal take is like if someone's not reaching out there's no need to like reach out and tell them it's not a fit. I think there is like a little bit. That's unspoken because i'm not also gets into the boundaries of like what about every message that sent on dating app if you don't replied. Is that ghosting. I think i don't know. I don't know where the line is in today's world. That could be a lot of messages. You have to like every last person. I think if you've gone on an actual date and someone is actively reaching out in you. Choose not to reply that to me is the definition a ghosting. But that's my opinion. Ghosting is the practice of ending a personal relationship with someone. So i would argue that the taxi you exchange back and forth on dating apps. It's not really a personal relationship yet. it's a virtual. it's a appellation ship. But it doesn't really count yet. I agree on that gas like for your experience. Kedra what piece of wisdom would you have for someone.

00:55:03 - 01:00:04

That's struggling with this. Also they tend to go because they don't wanna face conflicts like what would you tell them from your reform go to. I would say to definitely get a template You know prepare something in. I mean there are so many resources online that that will even show you. Which i i've looked up. I've talked to friends about this. You know a crowd source you know but do something because not only is it gonna give you in that other person closure but they'll respect you more and i think that you are being a more kind person if you let them know you know rather than making them wander giving them anxiety because i think at the end of the day. The vast majority of coasters. They're not doing it because they're jerks they're just doing it because running communicate while in that that can be a work in progress. So i i would definitely say to if you struggle with it. Have something prepared so you know. Have it in in your mind that you know this is the kind being kind is giving them that closure. It's not mean to tell them. Hey this isn't working out. it's it is meeting the ghost though. It's i think that there is a level of just having general respect for other humans and giving them that verbalised closure that they need. Yeah how is specific. Do you think the closure should be. Because i'm thinking about your first example. You felt like you weren't connecting on a deeper level and you felt like he was a little surface level. Is that something you had to go back in time and right this closure text is that something we should be pointing out or is it just. I just don't see as being good fit 'cause personally if i were him. That's great feedback. I wish i would get that feedback. So i know not to be like that on on future dates or i would think oh well kendra. I can go deeper. Gimme another chance right. So i i feel like an nasir fans that kind of feedback as sort of necessary and therefore. I even talked to my therapist about this too And i think it depends. Also what level of investment did they have in you. I think you went on one or two days. I don't think you necessarily oh them much if you want to. If you feel comfortable than I know i had this conversation with a guy to where we literally went on one date together and it was to the mall food court. There was no money spent on either end. And not that. Not that money dictates anything at all. But i mean it was a very low investment and so at the end of it. He had asked me to go on another date. I you know sent the the template tax. Hey i had a good time getting to know you. I don't think this is a great fit. Good luck though. And he was like okay but you know was it. My looks was in our xiali. Clarification he did. And what did you say so i. I did respond to him. And i was like. Hey you know you like. I said on our date. You're a very good looking guy. You're very funny. I just don't feel like we want the same things in life he He wanted a tiny home in he wanted to live off grid and i like wanna live in suburbia with white picket fence in. Have kids super fair. Yeah let's enjoy told him that he he was like okay in he kind of kept asking for more so at that point i felt like i had given him enough information and we actually didn't even exchange numbers which was nice so i just kind of removed him from hinge at that point so i don't know if anyone would consider that ghosting to me. I felt like i let him know. This is the reason you know. We don't have the same long-term goals and when he kept kind of pestering that. Got to the point where it's like now that's intense a little aggressive. Yeah that's a little aggressive. I definitely don't i. Would you tell him. But i i know. This is the The challenge because i've had that happen to me too is like you give a reason. Then they just keep going and trying to prove you wrong. And i feel like for the most part people kinda made up their mind by van unless there is like i don't i'm sure there's an exception to a rule somewhere but i feel like the most part people are like no. This isn't a fit. I don't know i am. I questioned it too. Because i think a lot of people struggle with this. There wasn't an emotional connection early. Any of the blinking. Once you like all these like wives and it's like what do these really need like. What can i actually learn from them. So i don't know. I do struggle with this of like it would be great. Utopian world to like provide that feedback but also like you don't wanna be attacked from it either and i mean it worked out with vaexjoe to that. That was definitely a situation where it was almost the opposite like i was kind of ghosting because i wasn't like i felt a strong connection with him in. That was scary to me His digging in that situation.

01:00:04 - 01:05:02

It actually helped us and we you know i in the end. Obviously he is my ex now so it didn't end up working out but i mean we had a really good fulfilling relationship for a little while and so. I think that's definitely yeah. That blanket statement can be hard to hear. And i think that if you're on the receiving end of you know the template text and you want more information i don't think it hurts to ask but i also think just be prepared for whatever the other person responds in. Also make sure that your being respectful to them about their feet by. If you're gonna ask definitely definitely find someone on it either. Because i think i've i've seen that happen to not like this and i'm not like that you're asking for feedback. Take the feedback. Yeah that's that's hard because we be careful what you wish for and you can take that feedback however you want. But i would say ninety percent of the time the feedback is. I just not attracted to you. I just don't see sust. No chemistry or i just don't see as being good fit. That is ninety percent of the time you experience. Something that was ten percent of the time which is our connection was to depict. But i feel like that's that's a very rare circumstance. Yeah yeah i mean. I think the whole Emotional connection is super interesting that that definitely seems to be a reason why people ended. I think almost sometimes. I think dating apps may be it depends on how many dates you've been on before you get gusted to give it to date one and then you get ghosted may be because you didn't match whatever vision someone had but if you've got a couple of times usually there is like enough physical attraction. It's probably isn't going deeper. I guess like from those people. What feedback would you offer. That's a little more constructive than just like we did have emotional connection. That's a really good question. And actually that has happened to me where i've been on the receiving end after going on dates for a month and which was wild to me because it was the first time that anyone had ever told me that they didn't have emotional connection with the. I mean i'm the type of person that may all be on the subway in. Somebody will tell me their whole life story. You know and i have really deep connections with everybody in my life and so it was very jarring to me to hear that from him and i even asked him. I was like what do you mean. Like what emotional connection are you looking for because you know i feel like we've only gone on three dates in. We've been seeing each other for a month so i don't know what you're expecting and he couldn't verbalize it to me and that was again one of those points where i ask for more feedback and i wasn't getting the feedback that i wanted but at that point you have to be able to respect. Okay you know. This person is made up their minds. And i you know i did. I wanted to dig deeper. Because i actually really did like the guy on on you israeli great but i am because i like him. I also respect him as a person. I respect that he is in thomas. Human being you know with his own decision making rosina's in if he didn't feel comfortable sharing that with me then it's obviously not a match right if they if they can't express something to you then that's probably not a good fit that end so we just kind of let it go when our own separate ways so i think if you're on the receiving end of that it just comes down to respecting other people's boundaries and kind of removing your pain you know from that situation in order to just just be kind to another person doing a difficult thing. Yeah exactly and what if. You're the getting ghosted. A guy who definitely bit situations that you wanna send another tax with another tax. That's you know the coast to her. What advice would you have for subway. That's getting ghost. I would honestly to just not say not take it personally. It has absolutely nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with that person. Especially i mean if you're reaching out to them if you are you know i would say. Think about your other relationships in your life. You know our our other people connecting with you because most likely they are most likely you do have really great connections with other people in. That's probably a good sign that it really just has absolutely nothing to do with you And and everything to do with whatever hang up. That person might have whether that's a longstanding. Hang up whether it's something they're going through in the moment it's usually them related. You know in in not not to do with you. Which stink it oxen. It still doesn't make the hurt you know any less. But i think it's best to just kind of step back from the situation at that time. Kendra we're going to give you a platform right now because we reach our reaches pretty wine gonna brag too much but a lot of people listen to this and a lot of were gonna listen this episode. Because it's about ghosting. Everybody has experience with ghosting. If you could use your platform right now to speak to one of the people.

01:05:02 - 01:10:00

You've ghosted in the past to reconcile or to explain why you go said do you have someone in mind. And what would you say to them right now. Oh no you know. It's been so long since i've ghosted. Somebody thing that's i think honestly for me it doesn't. There isn't one particular person that i've ghosted. That stands out. But i think that even more is a testament to the fact that it had nothing to do with them. So hey if i've ever go studio nothing to do with you know. I think it's if i if i did ever ghost you. It didn't have anything to do with you. And it didn't have anything to do with the shortcoming of you but it was one hundred percent my own personal shortcomings and my own discomforts and things that i was dealing with so it doesn't make make you any less of a person. If anything it made me less of a solid person not time and not in a healthy mindset. But that's all me and not you well. That is a great segue takeaways. Because i think we've said this before like we've hypothesized a lot of times. This is people ghost. And i think hearing it from you directly as someone that admits they've done this before. It really has nothing to do with. The other person is so powerful. So i think people like the next time that they're experiencing nece no action in. No words is communication or no communication is communication. And i think so many times we want closure from something of. Why did this person drop off the face the universe and why did they go in what went wrong all that and in a way. It almost doesn't matter law. That matters is that it's not happening. We can just remember this conversation that it probably something they're going through. The reality is after a couple dates. You don't know someone that you really don't know what's going on. You don't know what their childhood upbringing was. You don't know what else is happening. There live if there's someone else of the picture or they've been fearful avoid other life. There's so many things that you just don't know. And i think knowing that it doesn't have to do with you in ultimately if you feel that you are a strong communicator. Why would you want to be with someone in that position. And it's not saying they're bad. Look at you. You're clearly have done the work and you've got the growth and you won't do it now but you also don't want to take someone on when they need to do that work for themselves my takeaway is maybe a really good question on dates is how do you handle conflict. Yeah i like. How did you grow up handling conflict. If there was conflict in your household. How would everybody react to it. 'cause it's very telling the way you told that story kendra. I can think back to my childhood. My parents are fighting. Hell yeah. I run away. I don't be part of this. And if they were mad at me i would hide. I would find every dark corner or somewhere on the playground. I've run away so many times from. Oh my mom's spanked me so hard. This one time. I ran away while she was saying. I was like seven years old. I got on the bus and went all the way across town to my other. Grandma's house say oh. My mom freaked the fuck out. And i realize now now thinking back to that moment is because i was raised to run away from conflict. Yeah yup and so. That explains why. I've ghosted and i would argue that. Most people have ghosted so my second takeaway is the best thing you can do in situations of ghosting to not ghost yourself. Okay don't do it. You can only control your own actions. Other people can go you whatever. You can't control what they're doing but at least for you know that to be a decent human being. Don't ghost just don't do it. At least you can control yourself and your car can be a clean slate while other people experience. Whatever they want you to experience in this lifetime so i really appreciate those kendra because those are the two that really bubbled up for me. Any other takeaways about ghosting. No i think just. I would say the one thing. Is that if you are being ghosted. That i really want to drive home because i know it's it's hurtful is to really just remember. It doesn't have anything to do with you. The person being ghosted in it probably has with them in. They're probably doing you a favor. Because i know when i was ghosting i was not in in a place where i was. You know doing anybody any favors. And i probably wasn't a good partner at the time anyways so it went with that great partner because we know eventually will be. You won't even remember the names of all. These people know exactly well. For all of our listeners of you have been ghosted by kendra feel free to reach out to us. Confront her on our show open to it to to.

01:10:00 - 01:13:40

Let's do it so you know. We're not joking about this. If you want to confront your poster or if you want to bring your ghosts easy to reconcile a relationship. We are more than happy to give you a platform to do so. But first and foremost thank you kendra for using this platform to talk about your reformed goester status. It's so nice to see that growth and change. I think you are officially reform. We were going to assess it at the beginning. But i think you you've passed the fact that you said you haven't ghosted anyone in a long time and you can remember someone to even give them a shout out to. That's a good thing thing a step in the right direction and for all of our listeners. Again we are also very thankful for all of you who have given us a good review and apple podcasts. We won't go. That is the opposite of ghosting. It is reviewing so if you could give us five stars in apple podcasts. A really helps us not only get some awesome guests such as kendra and also helps us support the podcast because we do not We don't we. Do not make money from this podcast but there are. There are expenses to keep the show running and it really helps when we have these reviews because sponsors come in to go they're legit will support them for these episodes and that's how the podcasting industry works. You're welcome so five stars in apple. Podcast with a little blurb of why you love us we always love reading those okay. We'll we're going to wrap this up. Stay the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more. Podcast you'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag any post with a hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those post then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free on. Spotify apple podcast. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable gym sessions and sweaty summer activities are back which means more funky smells in your clothes. Because sweat leaves behind bacteria that causes those hard to remove clorox fabric sanitizer products are ready to zap the stink out of fabrics. Your home by getting rid of ninety nine point nine percent of odor causing bacteria eliminate odors in every load or sanitize fabrics between washes with one of our fabric sanitizer products search. Fabric sanitizer at clark's dot com to learn more when it counts trust clorox use as directed. Let's go shopsmall. let's go into town and lose track of time. Let's go grab a bite with double everything. Let's try getting dressed up again to see all the familiar faces going. Let's go pick up our chat where we left it because there's nothing like shopping small. Let's go now. let's go again. Let's go shopsmall with amex.