S13E2: How to Fail at Being a F*ckboy w/ Kane Holloway

00:00:01 - 00:05:02

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

What's up everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable. A show all about modern dating where julie craft chick and i you issue here investigative reporters on why people do the things they do why they say the things that they say. And how do we deal with it. All lovett. yeah because we're in season thirteen. I cannot believe it still sees a thirteen itself. Maybe we have some newbies. Maybe we have people that have been with us since season one. It's still shocks me every day that we have been doing this for over five years. I wonder if that's how married people feel. They're like five fucking you you might be by law guess relationship i've ever met this year. You surpassed my longest relationship. Relationship was five years this year. We're going on six. We're going out six. Yeah you by longest relationship. Your life partners forever. Well it's a success story. I found you mathurin apt through mutual friends. We bonded over wind. We created something very beautiful. Well technically we've met through it up kaieda not an app service so social matchmaking service that i've read so it wasn't like you ate. I signed up for this but it was a success story. And if that's service were still in service today. We could have given them a testimony all jewelry. Bring it back five hundred brunches. Let's go our first sponsor you reach five hundred brunches. No i did it. I go to shit out of russia's. I think this is the way to be getting out to the world. We had the best story today on our facebook. I just want to give a shout julia. Y'all speaking of being out in the wild just speaking shit happened. She was talking about how she was mastered egg with blueberry pancakes and shouldn't take again i mean that's sounds a pretty frigging great bastard date and then you're like how could this day get better. How could this take better. And then some guys like sees what's going on. It was like. Hey that's how the state gets better than got her number and tense right away. I feel like our entire. Facebook community is going to be out on masters this weekend. Yes with all the pancakes bacon. Even the vegetarians are like whatever whatever. I don't eat this so i find by person. I'm in for it. Smells like bacon. That's cool. I don't eat. It's all good. This episode though is pretty damn funny. Little clue flock boys. Fuck boys which gonna do you up. What's the best about this. So we hate kane holloway. Who's a comedian. So it's going to be funny regardless and we initially came out with a slightly different topic because we were on his podcast. Don't take bullshit from fuckers. Both of us were guests on that. Podcast you may have heard us re air some of those in the bonus season and one thing he started talking about with you as at the sub didn't go too deep was about how his current girlfriend made the first move through. That would be a good topic and it was and there's definitely tidbits in here for people when we started talking. We're like nope. This is shaping up to be about. Why kate is it is not possible for him to be a fuck boy like how he can not actually fuck boy which ended up being a way better topic even though he tried tried tried his just not in his blood which is also a great way to dispel the myth that men are born. Fuck boys or they descend these fuck boy tendencies. No not every guy has fucked boy tendencies kind of have to really try and kane tried and he couldn't get there so i had some deep thought the other day. Oh just the other day deep thoughts every day but specifically around the topic of i was like okay. Why you know things that people say about fuck boys right like they lead you on. They say certain things to kind of fall into the trap been and maybe they don't have attentions of really being in a relationship and or maybe like you know jerk you around a little seafood. There is something there that it's not really as much as you think. So as wondering. Could there be fucked girls like i feel like all the supplies women to be never hear anyone talking about fuck girls.

00:05:02 - 00:10:09

Fuck boys is like probably one of the most commentators terms the stage being never hear fuck girls so i did a little digging. And i'd like to see julie's search history. I don't want anyone to ever see my email equivalent of yet so there are okay so there were quite a lot of articles in twenty seventeenth specifically about flunk. Girls clearly did not take off clearly right now. So there's one that i found that was twelve signs. You're actually a fuck girl to hear some of the please k. the first one. Is you post more selfish than any other. Pick okay weird. You text your ex every now and then. I could see this 'cause like if a guy was doing this. That didn't have intentions of getting back with the girl. We call them. Boy like that's what people say You have your read. Receipt switched on. I don't know i don't get that. What and who uses read receipts by mom tried to get me to do that. I'm like hell they never do. I feel like if you were a fuck boy or girl. You would want anything but read receipts or i guess it's more like you turn it on so you so the other person knows you read it and you still haven't responded by intentional asshole. That's what it's saying actually breeding at deeper the power gets you off that you they they know you saw an eugene respond. Okay okay you don't refer to men by their names. I see this like we always talked about like our book. Speak the tinder family. Yeah it doesn't make you a fuck girl though. It just means you're not it doesn't mean you're normal well defined normal but yes it probably means that you're a serial dater baby a fuck girl or like you're you're trying to not get your hopes up right. Yes you string guys along you you've kept men on retainer get attention. I think that one's probably applicable. Because we would say fuck boy will keep the kinda bread crumbs. You right-thinking you around only date men with money. I think that's just a goal ticker fuck girl. You've broken the code being with a friend significant. Actually that's just bad too and then you've left your gal pals or cancelled on them just for the d. That's just call. They'll be horny gal pals totally understand. I wonder if we were to like dis sacked. All the stuff that makes sure there's that article like the twelfth exit makes you boy. Would we find reasons to say like that doesn't exist or did fuck really. Just take off. Because it's not a thing. I feel like the article is flawed by design. Because what makes someone a faulk boys not what they do but what their intentions are in so by saying like these. Are things that you do. You're fucked girl doesn't really make sense because what's the intention behind right right. I do think what comes with. Fuck boys their intention is to play games. String along as many women as possible and women be okay with the fact that they're dating a bunch of other women and they never commit so if a woman's intentions were that as well. Yes i think that would make her a fuck girl. Yeah i know. It's so fast. I was thinking about like have i dated a fuck boy before on and i don't know it's so hard to tell because it's like if you release something it's all how you interpret things i think some. I think i've definitely been in situations where maybe like i thought it was more than it actually was but was that because they had ill intentions or was it that they just were confused or testing the waters in like seeing how things were going. I don't know if it made them. Fuck boyer just tired of natural. Dedi someway okay. Well i think that's very much related to our question right a question that we've been getting since fuck boy island is so popular right now. Some people may not have had experience with boys so the question. We've been getting recently as how do you know when you're dating a fuck boy and so maybe this is a great time for us to answer this question but i also wanna pull up this this tax. My friend just just sent to me. And she said My therapist told me you're used to picking up crumbs and making a beautiful cake but you deserve more than crumbs. You deserve the the whole cake and still intact cake. And i think that's what it is a fuck way gives you crumbs. And maybe they're delicious crumbs but they don't give you the entire cake and so you're constantly looking to bake a cake out of crumbs that they give you but a true gentleman are chew. G- nice kind person will give you their whole cake and it'd be delicious from the gecko so i think what makes someone a boy is that they never give you their whole self because there are spreading their crumbs everywhere. Yeah i think what also makes someone a fuck boy. We said it before. But intention of. I think this is a big one because someone might give crumbs because they're in a place that they're unable to be in a relationship and you could argue are they fuck boyer not affect boyer fuck girl or not a fuck girl.

00:10:09 - 00:15:02

Because at the end of the day the result is the same. But i do think there is not a malicious attempt like attack. If someone is being upfront and honest and they're like i do care for you but this is happening or whatever is going on in their lives. I think that's a lot different than someone just falling off the face of the universe in hitting you up at two. Am when they're free. Yes right and along the same lines. I think boys are very honest too because they to they want the power dynamic of telling you the truth and still having you stick around because of it so we even if you watch fuck boy island. I know julie does not like that. Show that much. I'm okay. I'm okay on that show. I was really into the first two episodes and then i'm like all right. They're all fucked boys. The men on there are self proclaimed faulk boys so viewed us ask someone straight up. Would you consider yourself a fucked boy. A fuck boy would say yes. I am yet. You still want to date me or are there. They tell you. I don't wanna be in a relationship. There super honest but then they keep pursuing you. Anyways i've definitely been in situations like that at the end of the day comes down to yourself and if you're going to stand for that if you really truly are at a like a good head space yourself you're probably going to be like a. I don't want that. But i think the honesty in a way i think it gives the power dynamic like you were just saying but it also kind of clear. Someone's conscious of it. Because i told you what i was looking for a. You're still going along with it exactly exactly so they can't blame you know. There's there's no blame on anybody. Because i told you the truth. I let you know. I think another sign is how they respect you in pup la out with them in their hitting on other people in front of you blatantly or there i mean. I hate admitting this. But i had someone make out with someone else in front of me. And they said it was. Because i wasn't giving them enough attention. Gosh yeah i mean. This was years ago many years ago but this did happen. And i think in a way i think as a fuck boy because if someone that isn't a fuck boy would have that conversation in a way. That wasn't trying to like mess with you at that. Yup yup and there comes this feeling of winning with a fuck boy as well. I definitely dated one in new york because he was all about winning winning girls over and when he met me he was very straight up. I have a girlfriend. But i'm very attracted to you. I really want to spend some time with you. Of course stroke my ego. I'm like oh my gosh. Maybe he'll evokes girlfriend for me. That never happens and then what ended up happening was he would only see me at like three. Am or you know two pm on a on a weekday and be like. Oh do you want to get t no. We're just fucking whatever. But i thought that was his way of building a relationship and this went on for over a year and he had different girlfriends the entire time he would bring them out in front of me he would run them out. Here's my girlfriend. i'm like well. Whatever i'm trying to be the cool girl in all of this and then at the end i was like. Oh my god this is what my self worth is now for this guy who has quote unquote tea with me on a two pm on a monday. Like fuck this shit. But i let it happen because he never lied to me. It was like i go rhino. I love how we start off like. Have we been an advertising. All these memories are coming back. And i think both of us current day would not is some of that is growth right but he had a big piece of it is in your earlier years sometimes. You're you know you think that's is how people are especially as women we think like. That's how men are trained. I remember i have. God bless i have this group of fred that deference that never does the of these like data terms and they were like what does a fuck for. It's basically a player of our generation but like cozma politics magazine and like all the bad books we read. I feel like that's what you expected. Men to be like a lot of us just accepted those crumbs because we thought that was the dynamics that you are expected to accept yup bemba's sky was we were you know. Hit it off. And he's like. I'd really like to take you on a date. There was a great. I can't wait and he's like. I don't think my girlfriend would like why are you bringing it up like one so sleazy but it does take like your friends. Therapists said getting to that point. That you're like idol. I want someone that's like all it and communicate like an adult doesn't do weird power dynamics who wants to the end of the day. That's the fuck boy right. There he is not on this mainstream path. He's sort of like only sees you off hours. He makes these varies like from left field comments.

00:15:02 - 00:20:08

So that it it catches you by surprise. And you're like ooh he's giving you giving me special attention. Maybe he sees something different than me. Maybe i can change him. And then you gotta think damn that poor girlfriend who deal with this guy but they can change. Every we had an episode of last season Is it the timing or the person with your friend jess and he was definitely a reformed. Fuck boy that changed his ways. I think though the key was he did it. You know it's not your job to change this person. They need to want to do it themselves as she had to move on with her life. Yes yes before. He realized that he wanted to change. You're never going to be able to change someone. They just have now with themselves and boys very well. No there fuck boys and the only one change when they want to change their identity. And you can't push that along so just leave them the faulk alone. I'll fuck boy. Yes but you know you found a keeper like this episode of cade when someone actually and they can't do it. That's best sign that that's a keeper. There should be like fuck boy training camp and then all the dropouts we match up match them up with nice girls. It's like send this text at u. a. m. one guys like. I just can't do busy like you get out of here. You're not cut out to be a fuck fuck for islet. Are you a fuck boy that that would be the ultimate competition. It's like american gladiator. This is like american flag boy. If anybody wants to buy that show. Please give us credits. We aren't commissioning. We're ready to go but you ain't. I've been harder work this week. I feel like. I think we're a little delirious right now because this is fit i just the two of us but we've something so excited store. We're not going to say too much because we were. We'll reveal it when her ready but i think it's going to really i think people are gonna love it. It's a greatly impact a lot of people that are listening to this podcast on a weekly basis. And it's always been like. We needed these five years to get to this morning And we've been working on this for five years and recently we felt like this was the right time to do it. So we've heads down really focused on on working on this thing that we're about to launch unless you say we crack the code on something code fantast. listen to. This is a bee's knees if kids still say that these days like this is it. If there's one thing to look for this year this is it and we can't wait to launch it. But we can't launch. I just yet. I just wanted to bring back the bees. What does that mean what. We're launching of the bees. Those are the two things you just stay. Where for twenty twenty. What he's news. You just whatever whatever that means these. We'll figure it out. Let's get into some announcements shall we. Yeah we had a great kickoff to. Sally bore two point. Oh the other night. We did our first office hours coffee. Chat of sort of the day. I think you get the point. You basically get to pop in and ask you a it. I any question that you have. That's burning or listen to other people's in a group format. The whole piece of the sounding board is to have the support of community. And i was blown away by the types of questions. They weren't like basic annoying questions about dating. There were some really meaty ones but also things everyone can relate to like. There was one that was said that. I think everyone in the room was like yep yen there before it's like group therapy in a way and it's okay if you don't wanna share it's okay if you don't wanna talk because you just learn so much by listening to other people share their own experiences and i'm also impressed by how open and warm and kind to everybody was who went to our office hours so it creates such a safe space for anybody to share or just to listen yup and we are going to be starting up in september more of focused conversations around some just really hot topics that a lot of people are discussing wondering ally since we've been doing this now for a while we're starting to see the trends of the types of things that people want to dive into a little deeper will be doing that with our fabulous team of hosts that are a little dateable trading and we can't wait to kick off so if you want to get into the sounding board we will have one more month at the additional rates in. They will be going up in september on september first so definitely get in on it now. If this is something you've been thinking about it's a great opportunity great community what also wore my heart. Louis did the office hours The folks were like i've been here since day one. Yeah this has made such a path for me so it was really nice to hear we mix the new people in some of the people that have been here from the day we launched so i thought that was really great to hear.

00:20:08 - 00:25:00

Yes so get all the information. At data podcasts dot com slash sounding board. A lot of you have been joining our facebook group saying that you keep hearing about the sounding. Board on our podcast. While you're you're not going to stop hearing about it because we're we're really gonna talk. We truly believe in this idea of community and a curated smaller intimate community. So check it out. I mean if you're just curious check it out for one event or one. Happy hour and Let us know your feedback to and feedback. You can always give us feedback through instagram. Follow us at dateable. Podcasts were also on twitter. We're not as active there but same handle and we're also on youtube videos that julian i do that. We put on makeup four. I just pop into youtube. Watch two seconds and be like okay. That's what they look like exactly and see so much different dynamics that just our voices. I know life would be easier if we didn't even have to. But we wanna do it because it's nice to be in front of you all and it gives us an opportunity to get ready and not wear pajamas and you get to see our recording environment. Yeah life could be cut a weird if we were just never seen at one and we were just constantly just our voices were out there and we could be wearing anything at anytime. People can imagine anything they want. Maybe keep it better that way. Whatever you want. We're wearing onesies. Yes or bunny. Suits has recorded every week once. It's not hot enough. Go to youtube and find out how about every week. We change the ones that you have to. You have to go to to us. How is that for a teaser. And just a last reminder is really helps us when you give us reviews an apple podcasts. We had a guest recently. Tell us that is exactly how her manager booked on earn on our show because her manager looks at how many reviews podcast gets and the more reviews. You get the more legit you appear to be so if you can give five stars right a little nice blurb. We really highly appreciate that. Because that's what helps us propel and grow in a direction that we wanted to go and this guest was killer this Would you and. I both wanted other podcasts. For i would say at least a year now. She is phenomenal going to have that episode coming soon. And yeah this is what makes it happen. apple podcasts five-star. Give it a little blurb and we will send you all the kasese karma for your love life right. Yes you feel that through your headphones right now. All the karma ca okay. Let's dive into our sponsors this week. This episode is brought to you by hellofresh. Fall is busy but hellofresh recipes. Save time you otherwise spend meal planning shopping and chopping so you can get back to what matters also get better value. Hellofresh is over thirty percent cheaper than shopping. Grocery stores with preportion ingredients that ensure you won't spend money on excess food. The ends up going in the trash. I look forward to getting my delivery every week. Because i know i get to spend quality time whipping up delicious meals with my partner without the hassle of pre-planning and grocery shopping. We also feel extra legit like we're on a cooking show so you can get it on this to for dave listeners. Only go to hellofresh dot com slash dateable fourteen and use the code dateable fourteen for up to fourteen free meals including free shipping again. That's hellofresh dot com slash dat ab l. e. number fourteen and use the code dat abby l. e. followed by the number fourteen for fourteen. Free meals hellofresh. America's number one meal kit. This episode is made possible by lugs. Miss the golden age of the nineties lugs found its footing as a leader within the footwear and fashion space priding himself on quality materials supreme comfort. The brand never wavered with the passing of trends whether you remember the brand's early appeal within the hip hop culture where the countless celebrity endorsements one thing remains the same lugs distinctive style. Julian i both have a few different styles of shoes ranging from their iconic boots to their canvas sneakers even though they're so different in style one thing remains the same. They're also comfortable and light. I love my. Flirt hides boots that i can wear with q. Summer dresses and my canvas sneakers. Go so perfectly with my jeans and t-shirts fun comfortable everyday. Where realistically price and affordable so treat yourself you can never have too many pairs of lugs exclusively for our beautiful listeners. Get thirty percent off full price items now by going to lug dot com and entering the cote. Dateable again that's l. e. dot com and entering the code. At ab l. e. for thirty percent off full price items.

00:25:00 - 00:30:08

Okay let's hear it. From cain about how to fail at being fuck boy. It's so great to have you on our show. Because both julian i were on your show. Don't take bullshit from fuckers otherwise known as you and your co hosts were so nice to us that we thought we. Would you know. Show the same kind of hospitality. So cain if you don't know about cane he is thirty four years old he's a comedian co host of don't take bullshit from fuckers past and well actually pod is the acronym web for that one. We changed it just changed it to walk. We were so excited. When that's out what frankly frankly i don't care for it you'll like have you seen by chance. Yes oh my gosh aggressive so well actually pod is not really but it has the same actor no yeah. You're not gonna get wet listening to that shows very nerdy and if you do then even better i well. Yeah no if you do then where your podcast but you might get da- p- dry. What's or joe. pass say john. We're introducing kane right episode about kings originally from seattle. He lives in l. a. but he's currently in seattle for a few months. He's recently in a monogamous relationship. And what is interesting as you were were divorced during the pandemic and dating for the first time in eight years figuring out a new relationship. That's crazy crazy turn of events. That was a weird time for me. A weird i've had we. Will we definitely want to get into your car relationship. But i guess before we do you kind of. Take us back before you bet your car girlfriend to. What kind of data was life coming out of that divorce in cova times. Well it was a day getting back into dating after an eight year long relationship. When you're doing you don't have to worry about. You don't have to worry about meeting people you never downloaded the apps and then to thrust into it and on top of that cova and others all these new rules that that the dating community is already. They're already aware of how dating is like. I'm out of the club. So i'm coming in learning all the dating rules on top of which they're making up new rules because a covert so i gotta i gotta know how dating is and now what dating is like. During kobe. it was. It was weird because like a few girls. I'd go flying. See my family. And then i i met someone on hinge and then when i came back to la i was living in la. I gotta cova test and then we were supposed to meet up and then later on. She was like oh. Do you want me to get a kobe. Test like yeah. It's cova time you're talking. You're getting cova tests. Why am i doing this so it was. It made me think too. Like you got a really really like someone to get back in your car and then go to a deserted parking lot and sit in line in your car and then get a swab up your vintage. Just go have socially distance coffee with a person. That is a lot to ask somebody and i just. I don't know if i like anybody. I don't know if anybody right now enough to want to do that. All the time and then take cove it out of it. I don't know if i'm if i want to put pants on in general to go meet. Who said you had to put on pants to go on day. Yeah exactly i don't want to. I can imagine the culture shock though if you've never dated before it's been a while like when did you get married. How old were you when you were actually dating before getting married. I don't know. I was like in my early twenties whenever we met. and we. Yeah we just sorta. We went really fast too fast. And and then because of that like the we hit it off and the spark was so like it ignited so fast that we're like oh let's keep going. Let's let's do all the things. It's kind of like a great lesson. I had to learn. I'm still applying to my life but like at a certain point with a relationship that starts off really really like on fire like that where you're just like going going going relationship can kind of turn into a a gold checklist where the relationship by itself isn't enough. It's what are we reaching towards next as a couple like. What are we succeeding at as a couple together and then you get to the wedding. We cancelled the wedding couple times like we got engaged much earlier we had engaged like three or four months into dating each other and then we couldn't stop fighting so i cut it off and i said no no.

00:30:08 - 00:35:00

We shouldn't get married. I think that's a terrible idea. So we took it off the table for a while and we kept like we kept coming back to it so eventually we got to it. We you know like we just. We didn't have the that conversation again when we really should have. It was like. I think we as a couple just have grown apart and the and the wedding is in the saving grace and that sort of what the wedding kinda was like. You don't really think of it in that term. At least you try not to you just you just kinda hope like this is okay. Yeah we're making the right decision but we just didn't have that conversation of like. Hey i think we have. I think we've just grown apart kind of where you married for six months of really so you are in relationship for almost eight years before young married while i feel like so. Many people can relate to that because in relationships a lot of times we worked towards these milestones at the expense of the relationship thinking that we have to accomplish these milestones to get that seal of success on our relationships but then when people get married when they have kids when they get into the house that they built together they realize oh shit we never worked on our relationship the foundation of our relationship and then starts falling apart. Pretty fast ryan. We were both comics and and the thing is like so. We're like gone a lot and you know there's somebody seinfeld. There's a seinfeld episode. Where jerry describes a relationship and he's he's actually talking about a lane. Has this relationship going with a neighbor of hers where they're on a waving basis like they don't actually know each other's names they just like wave at each other and then all of a sudden like the waiting went away and it was a polite nod and then the nods went away. And now. there's like there's this animosity between us it's based out of nothing and seinfeld's like a relationship is like an organism you starved and then it turned against you and that's a pretty good representation of what we were doing. We don't hate each other and we. We ended very amicably. But at a certain point we were just like there was an animosity that we couldn't we couldn't really figure out what like there was no substance to it. It was like holding a balloon. You don't wanna hold and you're just like there's like nothing there's really you know there's nothing there's nothing exciting about this balloon. It's not floating. it's. I can give me a high or anything right now. It's just like so. what are we doing. And that's when we had a pop the balloon. I was hope. I hope that that made sense. See you walk out of this relationship and you basically have no dating experience. I think twenties to thirties is a different ballgame. So you're you're back in it in kovin. Were you before you met your current girlfriend. Were you dating anyone else or she. Kinda a first person that's kick starting. This is dated a couple people and it was just something a lot of my girlfriends. Were trying to turn me into a fuck boy. They're like yo it's tie it's fuck boy summer for kane. You've you've been the nice guy and it's time to just like get your dick wet dog and i was like all right. I mean i guess so. I don't know what i have to do to accomplish that as a goal they're like don't get attached and i'm like all right but then i go on these dates and i started asking them all these personal questions and they're like very open to tell me everything about their life and i'm like fuck you know like i was like not. They're not the piece of meat supposed to be there. A person and i can't just fucking dump a person you know. And i just realized i just don't have that in me. I slept with a woman and then after she left. I was like i. Can't i have no emotional have no emotional attachment to to her and and then i was like i think i gotta end it and i'd never felt that before like i'd never ever fell or is that that i haven't felt that before i just haven't felt it in a such a long time to just be like. Oh i don't want to see you again. And now i feel awful and i gotta go return. She gave me harry potter. I've never read any of the books as like. Give her book back like we were like. We were in middle school. And i was like as i'm breaking up with her. She's like we're not together. And i'm like i know that but i don't know what to say to say i don't want to continue this and so i'm just i basically say we should just not see each other and she's like yeah. That's fine the girl the situation. What's you know. It's just like kind of those books you can keep.

00:35:00 - 00:40:09

That gives us every consolation prize. You're welcome. where's the bathroom. She's like it's on the left. And i go right and there's just like a i open a closet. All the harry potter's could you only have sorcerer's stone in here. She's got pictures of all your head shots. You're a check mark next to it out one. She's like she's like dexter. But for fuck girling league just like a little while my seem inside the book. A bookmark is love it. You're like this is going to break harsh. She's like. I don't care i really don't care i think it's first of all i think is interesting that it was your girlfriend that wanna turn you into a flock way it just shows how toxic masculinity bleeds into so many other areas of society. 'cause i've done the same for my guy friends. Oh you're going through divorce. You're going through a break-up go and you'll feel better. Yeah it doesn't make you feel any better in. It's i think it's good to know that you're not innately. Fuck boy you actually have to try to fuck you would not survive on fuck island. Big no right away. I wasn't a fuck boy. No immediately i just like i engage and then i feel really terrible because i'm like these feelings aren't recip- like you know when someone likes you more than you like them like you can just feel it inherently and i just kept feeling that feeling of like this is not going to be reciprocated at all and like i was fooling around with a girl trying to like. Okay all right. Let's let's see if we can just like have meaningless sex. And i even told her i was like i'm getting out of a thing and i'm not really looking for anything like to crazier series or whatever and she was like. Yeah then we started fooling around. And i was like i can't i can't like i. I don't wanna do that again. I've already done this twice. Where i i sleep with someone and then i'm like i don't feel nothing and i want them to leave. I feel like shit for like two weeks. And maybe it's just like a ego thing. I'm not realizing just like. Did i break our hardware. Just like didn't wanna keep having the break-up conversation. So i was like. I don't think we should sleep together. It's not gonna happen. i'm not really. I'm not really into it. And she and has just like. I'm not there and she's like okay. That's great because i don't sleep with you right now. Anyway like i want to. I would want to build up to that. I would want you to be my boyfriend. I and i was like health and we definitely should not be sleeping end of the road for human. So you knows how much i love timelines to pull the story together. Like copy buds after the divorce dislike. Fake fuck boy stage of yours. It was three months afterwards. I was like on a walk with one of my friends and She was like in a new relationship and you know they had. They were cova for us to be inside together and she was just like like. Yeah like we're we got our own leg struggles in. I think i think right. Now you just need like you just need to go out there and just have a ton of meaningless sex and stuff like. I think that'll be good for you and It'll help like boost up your ego broken heart. That kind of thing. And i was like all right i guess so. And then and then she like she's like send me pick send me like let me look at your bio. Let me look at pictures of you. I'll i'll sign off on the pictures that you saw senator pictures of me like with my knees drawing and shit and she goes. Now dum dum. You're trying to get your trying to attract a sluts. You're not trying to try get trying to wipe up. Yes oh no no kid pix. And i'm like okay i. I don't know you know. And so dick pics. Only anna was just your dick or just you clean-shaven and then people were like. Is that a dick a couple of my girlfriends and they all like know each other. So they're all talking about me and then they're re together refining my tender and bumble and hinge profiles and then they send it back all these pictures. This is your profile picture. These are your next few pictures. This is the fucking tagline. You should say. Here's what should be in your bio. Are i go out and get laid and then i was like okay and just like everyone says it was awful to sit and try and talk with anybody matched with and if you had a connection with somebody. It truly didn't matter. If i was like look i'm not looking for anything serious. It felt like hey. I'll change his mind and i was like i'm kinda not budging on this. I can't be in another relationship this soon and then it will explode. We're not explode. It would just end is so profound to me just because it says a lot about modern dating because you spent eight years of your life trying to attach yourself to someone in a relationship when most daters who are single spend most of their single life trying to detach themselves from people they date.

00:40:09 - 00:45:02

They don't wanna be invested with their feelings. They won't be the first one to say. I want to be in a relationship with you. So there's that it makes sense why you were feeling this way and why you felt like you couldn't be participating in this sort of detachment because it's not. It's not who you are. Yeah i kept running into really cool. Girls like like one girl. We liked and disliked every movie. We had the same ideas across the board about movies. And like i love watching them and talking about them and we'd spend hours talking about movies and shit i'm like she's really cool and really pretty and i she'd be a dope girlfriend but i cannot do us. Adjust timing can't do it. i can't be. I can't be this girl's boyfriend it's it's not i can't do it and then that just kind of kept happening. Where like. I went on a date with a girl who i got ghosted That was funny. You have to do it. At least once adviser take pride was so funny to get ghosted. i was also also. Because i'm i'm always aware of if i'm in someone's space and if someone's touching me i'm just very used to be like. Oh i'm sorry so on my day with this girl and under the table she keeps she keeps putting her foot on my shin and rub. Oh giving you the foot ceiling like footsie under the table. And i kept being like okay. Excuse and moving away. She went to the bathroom. And then i kept. Replaying all those moments and i'm like you are so dumb you're like i have mystic. All the sides Let's take a quick break from this hilarious conversation to hear a few messages. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you want to make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently re-entered aiding see maybe you've gone on one too many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one on one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allowed julian. I become your dating. Sherpa us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo. Okay see a digital taste of water dating look. How long was this period that you were kinda cycling through people dating but not really like looking for anything. That was a couple that was maybe two months two or three months. Also were just like let me see off and on. I look at one of the apps and then see if i had a message if it was worth getting into and and and my thing is like i'm not i don't wanna sit for too long talking or waiting for your response and i know that that's a tactic. People use will respond to you and it'll be days later and i'm just like i don't know you or care if you spend three days not talking to me. I the thing pops. There's nobody beautiful enough to deal with that shit. I realize like you are not hot enough to keep me fucking on the line you like. Then i get to know women and then i i. I'm like oh. They would be cool. And i don't feel it in my heart so you could keep me on the line and try and push me off to the side. It's some guy that's going to be like. Oh i have the. I have the type of charm where i don't need to talk to him for a few days. No you don't know you do not. Although i your bubble it may be a tactic but it also could just be a byproduct of data gaps. 'cause i definitely have just dot checked by app for like three days. Sure absolutely. Yeah and what. But one of the girls i was you to. It's like we were getting closer and closer to making plan i would. I would put out like oh you wanna go grab dinner or something and we go here. I'd give her options and then nothing and we were just. We were just texting each other and then a couple days ago. Go by then it's like. Oh hey i had this thing anyway. Dinner sounds great now mike. Dinner came and went. Yeah she she was playing back to that game. Yeah dinner plans are over. I'll need this.

00:45:02 - 00:50:02

i don't need. I don't need this shit. I know it's also sorta surprised at the the bare minimum. I found i found out the bare minimum is an impressive feat in dating. I was i was supposed to supposed to have a facetime with a girl. And then i and then plans changed and i was like oh i have like a different thing going on. But i would love to talk to you. After the fact if he can't do later tonight tomorrow and she'd text me and she's like washes like wow yes full webb. She's like wow. You're not like la guys at all this whole diatribe. About how how. She's impressed by my. Or i don't like that's basic human rescheduled a time for you. Yeah i i was like what was happening in the world we. I wasn't like her date to a wedding. I was a fucking was. Just a facetime. Though i feel like women are like kinda told to say stuff like that but i hear how it's coming off just kind of like. Wow you must be treated pretty fucking bad. If that's what you are road jaded. I think our listeners must be laughing because they've heard us talk about this film idea we've had were an alien comes down to earth to date into arriver all the ridiculous things that happens in modern dating. You are literally are alien right now. Because you're wrong with people. This comrade was such a weird experience to be like this is. This is what you do to be a polite person. It's what you learn very early in your life. How to treat. Treat people for whatever reason. I don't know why dating feels like people just can do garbage. Behaviorally accepted away with it. Yes yeah and where other worlds would that be acceptable if you just you know bailed on plans with like an employer or something. Yeah just didn't contact them to reschedule. Oh my god. Yeah and it's such an easy and what's funny too is on. Don't bullshit from fuckers. We'll get emails in and we were getting these emails in before the divorce. And so you know. I was looking at. I was looking at these emails about guys. Ghosting our female listeners. And how like. They'll drop off a few days. Both greg and i are alike. Welcome and block his number and move on. Then i then i rethought about it when i was getting into dating and i was like all right if that happens to me. Now i'm in. I'm in their seat. So what does that to feel like and then it happened. And i was like yeah fuck them. I didn't know them. The thing about all relationships any relationship is they previously weren't in your life and you were doing just fine excessive rolling around the streets living your life. You're going to work. You made money you fucking. You have friends and family. You had traditions. You have all this shit without them and then they go into your life and all of a sudden the rest your world shuts down. Because you're like they're not talking to me fucking kick him to the curb and go back to what your life was like before they rolled in to try and fuck it up. Fuck them especially these people that you met for like an hour. I know sometimes easier said than done. I think it's always easier giving this advice. What your dot in it than what you are in it but i feel like sometimes we'd let people have just too much power over us twenty. It's like you met for an hour. Who the fuck cares about them like for someone. That's gonna really hurt you. You know and what we hear from our listeners. Is that most of the time. They don't even like that person. All they want us to win the popularity contest. Yeah yeah validation. India at ego ego driven. Yeah and there's nothing cooler than someone just been like. Oh i don't care. Yeah like oh. Hey hey i'm back. Oh you were i don. I haven't thought about you for a week. Oh we'll do you wanna get together now. The way i look at it is. They're making room for the right person. They're stepping out of the way making root for the right person at that leads us to you. Made it on the other side. Dow if you cut a share. 'cause you guys did not meet on an app. Can you of share the story of how you met. Yes so greg went on a girls gotta eat and Which is a show out in new york. And i'm sure your listeners have heard of an absolutely yes and greg for anyone. That is not familiar. Hopefully they listened to you. And i argue podcast but he canes co host. We're going to have him out the podcast late. Yeah gregory baron. Wonderful person wonderful very funny very helpful. Dude me get sober one of my best friends. Alumna debt and grey goes on. Girls got to talk about the you know the days of. He's just not that into you when he wrote the book.

00:50:02 - 00:55:01

Sort of how it came about. I won't spoil that here. I'm sure he'll retell it here. And there's also the girl's gotta eat episode but he'll road on sex in the city and so he's talking about sex in the city and the hand there that episode aired our numbers exploded out of nowhere and so i was like all right. Let me listen to this show. So i listen to greg's episode like that was funny. Let me listen to another one without greg. So then i started listening as show is going. I'm like who's the a short one who's like very narrow sexual assault very sexual. Very bubbly very funny. And then she said her name. And i was like okay. Which ones raina so. I went on instagram and i looked up on instagram. Yeah stock to yeah. I was like oh okay. She's hot and she's forty and she she's got a great laugh and she's got a great voice cool. I think i have a crush on this girl. And that'll be something. I put on the shelf and that just sits on the shelf and that never materializes ever and then it was like a couple of months later. Greg is like i hit up rain. She's coming on the show. And then we'll get ashley afterwards has like oh no. I don't want this to happen of. I didn't want rain to come on. Because i knew i'd get. I knew i'd get nervous. I knew i'd be like i. I wouldn't be funny or charming or it's my show and like i'm going to bomb on this episode. I fucking i feel it low pressure. Yeah and if you listen to that episode. That rain comes on pat. Told me what he told me. After the fact like a couple of weeks later he's like dude. I had to cut so much shit. Cavas producer producers had cut viewed babbling. Nervous talk chatter. He's like what was wrong with you. And i'm like i don't know i don't know off day. Don't talk to me so on that episode. I started asking her questions. Because because Once i announced that i was single and we are female listener base grew i started to get. Dm's on my instagram. And i didn't know how to deal with that. And i just like one girl was like one girl sent me a of her as i was like right on right on ours. Yeah i see. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know. I have no idea what it was like fuck for. We've already established getting these messages. And i'm like. I don't girls i. We do an episode on dick pic. And i'm like i've never sent one before my whole life so i don't know what to i don't know like what angles to do and then i kept getting messages. Like send one in gray sweatpants and like so. I'm asking. i started asking these questions. So that's how you got your end with her. If i were to be with someone or talking to someone and they ask for a dick pic a do i send it and be. What do i send an. Should i send it gray sweatpants. And she was like okay and started breaking it down what i should do and how she likes. And then she'll like a bunch of funny stories of different times she got dick pic sent to her and then we got done recording and she was like. Hey if you get if you start to actually take some in gray sweatpants send them to me. All like verify verify that these are good. Yeah you know. They're good yeah she is like her wall she also has a harry potter causes. Move right there right there. Fix all let you know how they are seven strain. But i'm still kind of picking up like are at this point. Are you like this. Is someone i wanna pursue his. I don't know how. I'd feel if someone was you know. It sounds like we guys are having like friendly banter. I know some of it was on a podcast. So there's some of that going on like you know the exchange of men and women cut of like asking each other for advice doesn't necessarily scream like i'm into you. Sometimes people temperament the opposite. Yeah and we got done recording. And then it was like a few hours later no i would've. I had posted a picture of me with my other. Podcast co hosts saying like the face to face. You make win. You're the third wheel because they're a couple my other two podcast co hosts our are couple and she sent me that picture on my dm's and was like you know if you were sending more gray sweatpants dick pics. Then you wouldn't have to worry. Good line yeah. I remember being like. This isn't happening. Because i had crushed honor from from from afar and sort of like in my own mind. Thought that that's not real.

00:55:02 - 01:00:02

It'll never be a reality. So when she started talking to me on this she doesn't like me she's just being nice then. I call my girlfriends. And they're like she's shoots not into mirai she's just being nice and essence screen shots of our conversations. And my girlfriend goes known are new yorkers like just known for being nice people. Do you know them as that area. Type great question. Yeah i was like. I guess not. She's like you're so dumb. Why you so thick. This girl likes you. Stop it like flirt back. Just flirt back virtual footsie with you and you keep. Excuse me yeah yeah trying to get away. So i i i send my number. And then we start talking about the food network. Because she's a big food blogger and then we And then it. Just sorta progressed from there where i just periodically would send some something some dumb sentence that she didn't know how to respond to because i'm just nervously trying to figure out how you flirt overtaxed. And then she said at one point she was like she was in miami and she was with a friend and she took a like a picture of a basket of puppies. She sent that to me like. Hey look basket of puppies. I said something stupid about cova. Did that was like this. That's proof covet is like almost over something and she was like what the fuck does that mean then. She looks at her friendship she goes. What does that mean. And in the franco's i have no idea who says that after a picture of puppies and so they're like oh he obviously isn't into me but then i just kept i could. I could sort of feel it going away. So i started to be the dictator aggressive. The i my i. I wouldn't know what those texts met either like. I think you're always like is this person into me. And you know someone. You're obviously into. But i think when things aren't clear in it's kind of like ambiguous tax back and forth. That's when things either fade out. If people don't step it up and arch more both people are just kind of like what is going on. Yeah and i finally is like. Hey let's let's you want to have a phone call okay. And she was like yes. Sure scheduled the time to talk on the phone and then we talked for about five hours on the phone. Wow yeah and the time difference between la and new york. It was like by the time we started to the time we ended. It was two thirty. Am her time shit. And i had like the rest of the night to myself afterwards so then she woke up the next morning and she was i was like how are you texter like are you feeling today. And she was like. I think we should break up. This is i can't do this anymore. She gave you like bates. I would say she didn't make the full. I move like that permission to come in. Make it happen. Yeah i mean she was very very you know we talk about sex. We talk about whatever she kept the conversation rolling. And i just sort of felt a kind of kinda unsure of myself and that's how i knew i liked her because before i was very very sure of myself because i just didn't care and like i didn't care that this would that any conversation with these women would progress into anything so i was very much myself and said whatever i would ever popped into my head no matter how weird it would be seem or whatever this time around. I'm now. I genuinely hope that i'm not fucking it up. And i'm and i'm fucking it up. I like stumbling over things and sending texts that don't make any sense and and then i'm all like in my head about it. Eventually when like we jumped on the phone. I could tell like. Oh i can be. She's just going to. She made me feel very comfortable right away on the phone and i was like okay. I don't have to worry about being cool. Because i was just trying to be cool. That's really all it was. I was trying to be intriguing. Stereotypes yeah but she's already talking to me so it didn't like it didn't make any sense. I feel like she dropped more than hints. Though 'cause think about it this is a girl who co host a really fucking popular podcast. She's so well known on instagram. She lives in fucking new york. What is she doing wasting her time talking to you on the phone for five hours when they're at right. Yeah i see the writing on the wall. It's like obviously she's into it right. I thought maybe not now just like i thought maybe she just wasn't i didn't have someone like a virtual friend. She's like yeah. I think i might be fun to talk to. I guess i don't know so. So how did it progress into more that you both were kind of like. This isn't just as shooting the shit. I'm the phone her rain and ashley.

01:00:02 - 01:05:01

We're going to miami to do the improv. My mom lives out in florida. So i hit them up and i'm like and she was also drunk texting me one nine and she was like. I'm going to be in miami if you wanna come out to Show and i was like all right and so talked to greg and then i talked to My girlfriend and they were both like hey man if covert has taught us anything you know. Basically the life is too short conversation. And i was like all right. Fuck it so i bought a plane ticket to miami and then i told her i bought it and then she was like she had like a little bit of a panic outlet and she was like. Oh i was just being cheeky. She was like drunk texting visa. She was like oh. It'd be kinda fun if you were in miami. And then i bought tickets and she was like okay. Just kidding yeah. That was a lot so instead she was like how about how about i come out to la first and then if we hit it off. Miami is a good idea. Oh you realize you're incapable of being a faulk boy. I'll throw that out there. He won't do it. Yeah exactly and so then. She came out to she. Came out to la. We talk a lot of we. Were talking a lot about Snacks when we weren't talking like having sex in innuendo conversations we talk a lot about best type of snacks and her favorites are cheese. It's and she had a. She had a pretty shitty and i told her about. Tim's cascade jalapeno chips which is a west coast mostly seattle chip company. That's it's the greatest chip on the on the planet earth. She's never heard of him because they're not how these coast so she gets. She has a bad. She has a really bad flight experience getting out to la so when she finally land. She's like hey i'm going to take a nap and like recalibrate that we can meet up and Her hotel was right next to my apartment. So i'm like all right now. That i have all this time more time than i thought i was going to have today. Here's what i'll do. I'll go out and get her. She's it s- and jalapeno chips and then i'll ask her if she likes flowers and rather than give her flowers. I'll give. I'll give her these snacks like cute. Cute funny thing and then she. She opens the door on my flustered nervous. I was nervous before. I went out there and i see her and i'm like fuck. It's even worse but i have this bag and i go haiti like flowers and she goes. You didn't buy me flowers. And i was like no i. Didn't i bought you cheese. It's an jalapeno chips. And she was like thank. God oh my god. I was actually very worried that you being a good person. We're probably going to get me flowers. And i was like. How do i pretend that. I like that. He got me flowers. Because i feel like she's a guy who's gonna get me flowers and actually been dreading the idea of you coming and getting me flowers and i was like i would get you. Flowers was like how is this romantic gesture becoming adver vetik. She's like. I can't get flowers from you on the first date or whatever so i was so we kept joking about. How like okay great. I'll just never get you flowers. Then and not to brag or nothing. But i'm a really good flower picker like good bouquet goldwyn. But you'll never know 'cause i'm just never going to get you flowers. It just be a cavalcade of cheeses and jalapeno chips always and so when i go to new york she goes. Do you like flowers. And i'm in her apartment. I go no. I don't like flowers and she bought me flowers all cute. Who is good to have these like running jokes so okay so this might be a hard question to answer but do you think it was the person or the time or combo. Both i think it was. I think it was a combo. Both i think her her schedule. Her show schedule like going on the road and theaters all the comedy clubs that she would have been doing. Had there not been coverted she probably would have been more unreachable so it had been a lot harder but now that we had nothing but time to talk and get to know each other. I think the timing was sort of fortuitous. Its and then it lend itself to sort of build on a relationship from afar. What about your time though because you were in a place of like i don't wanna relationship and trying to be a fuck boy. Yeah cut what do you think about your timing with the salty. Why i ended after the after one of the last girls. I just like. I'm i'm not gonna date anymore like i know interest. I deleted all the apps immediately. I don't if i'm gonna meet somebody. It's just gonna be organically. I don't care that much to manufacturer a meet cute on on these apps so fuck it.

01:05:01 - 01:10:02

I can wait and then we did the podcast like a month later. Something like that. Yeah or they spent a year like a full year. Maybe some change. After the break-up. So then i was like i had can't i'd like stopped. It was like now and then of course they always say once you stop looking it finds you or whatever but that's kind of what happened where i was like i'll just meet somebody organically puckett and then that's what happened and also you didn't meet under the context updating crasher. Yes yeah exactly. And that was my whole idea for meeting somebody new. It's like if if we hit it off through happenstance cool but trying to build myself up on this on the ship for it only to fall apart. Because i can't i can't get my head around it because i also it doesn't feel meeting them after meeting them in person after meeting them on the apps didn't feel real like when we connected. I didn't feel anything. And then when and then we'd be in person. I'm like the same kind of feeling whereas just like yeah. I'm talking to you. But i have no real like none of that. Great dating energy. Need when you're excited about somebody you did kind of realize from apps that you at the core. Our relationship type of guy sounds like when this came in you. Obviously were super into her clearly had a crush on her before. You've in matt. Yeah it was kind of like okay at this point. Like i'm going all in with a relationship or were you kind of wavering. With that still. I wanted to make sure that i was not moving super fast again So whole thought processes is still because it's still a new relationship because you know a lot of people and i think a lot of couples especially young couples have a tendency to meet someone they feel get knows them like no one else. 'cause you know of course you're Attracted so you're fucking all the time and you guys are like eating food. I think christopher titus has a funny he's all you're doing is fucking in fucking and eating i think and and then so you're you're having these deep long conversations and so you're like they don't no one gets me like them and then you you know like we should move in together. We've known each other for two weeks. We move we should move in together. 'cause you're my soul mate then you move in and then you're like why do you fucking. Why do you put garlic salt on everything. Look it's not a big deal but if you do it again i might cut your fingers off and then you have these big blow up fights at nothing and then you make up because you're young and you're just moving too fast and then you have another blow up fight over nothing and i don't want to repeat that and And so my entire like hey. We met Long distance getting to know each other and as the space between a skit smaller. Want that to go away so we get to a point where we move in together. I don't wanna. I don't wanna fight about garlic salt. I you know. I wanted to be if we're going to argue. It's going to be about whatever real issues going on. Yeah and count on. What brings us back to this idea of making the first move 'cause even on when i was on your show that listener had a question about as a woman should i make him. I move and i think the so many women think about that because we think that if we do make the first move it's a power dynamic that now the man has all the power or that sets it up where the woman has to make all the moves now in the relationship. What would you say to all the women out there who are debating whether they should make the first move or not You really have nothing to lose. As i said before there your your life your life is what your life is without them in it and then they they're new and exciting and they pop in and you want to progress and if that's what you want and no matter what kind of hints that come around no matter. How many hard hints you drop if the guy seems like. He's not getting it or he's sort of or you. You're in what feels like a friend zone. I would just say like just the blunt because and once you do that and they say no then you go. They weren't into me and if they say yes then great because not every guy. Yeah not every guy is going to make the first move. They might be like me really really into you but also like a little unsure of themselves right like are they into me and i. I got clueless. I'm a little. I am a little clueless. Think that is a good point though. It's like you don't ever know what the other person's experiences this is your first cut of like back into dating as an adult in.

01:10:02 - 01:15:01

You know you didn't have all that experience to read every last signal and to make all that. So i think someone that's not making the moves could potentially miss out on someone really great. That might just be a little not as polished. I guess as other people which usually ends up being the boyfriend's not the fuck boys right. Yeah i don't know aleta. Fuck boys i know. Most of my friends are who are dating. They just like they wanna relationship and they don't seem to. It doesn't seem to work out or they're looking for something so i'm not i don't run with. I don't run with a lot of fuck boys or at least i'm not aware of them as such But a lot of my guy friends kind of go through a similar thing. Where they'll they'll put in like my buddy. My buddy jay is a funny thing where it's like i don't know why like. Why do i have to always have a good line. You know. I always have to have some some some sort of fucking fancy lion that i got to throw out there. That's why like bumble. Because if they if they hit me with high then i can just be high. That's all you got the amount of times i've heard women be like that's all you got is high as you know. So there's like having a fancy line or something it's like when people say like what are you say. This is how i feel about talking to people when dating same way i feel like talking to hecklers like being heckled people. Ask me like. Do you have a stock line. It's like no. I don't actively right hackel comebacks so i can be funny is just like i. Hey whatever comes in the moment. i hope. I'm fucking funny when it happens. And i hope i can destroy at that moment and make it funny and that's how i feel about talking to somebody on the apps or talking to somebody in person it's why make up a line that they either they can. Judge is good or bad. Like if it's if it's shit then they're going to be like yeah dog but if it's good there's still going to be like. Wow that was a good one. And now you're being judged on your ability to write material so you can get in their pants at all feels materialistic in a way. Like dating. Be very materialistic. Well what did he say. Well he had this lion reacts about if my ass her. Because i came from heaven and it's like booed. Did you fuck in have a conversation about something or did you guys just wanna fuck. Did you even get to that point. It's it's a maddening process. That i didn't spend a lot of time in but enough time to get annoyed at it. Very quickly I think to you a the your question of like. Does it have to be like this forever. I think in today's world where a lot of women myself included want equal relationship. I personally would not want a guy that i couldn't text i because what type of relationship does that lead to ultimately so i think having you know making that i move or putting the ball in that guys core just letting them know that you're interested. I don't think it needs to mean that forever. You're always going to be the one doing it. You're really just getting something off the ground. Yeah i think we need to stop muddying. The waters with all of these should we. Shouldn't we do. Why do i talk to the guy do i. what do you want. I think you need to always ask yourself in this moment at any moment. what do i want. Do i wanna talk to them. And tell them that i like them. Because that's so fucking exciting when you're just like shit. I wanna tell them that. I have a crush on him and the moment you. Do you feel very liberated whatever the reciprocate is later on as you're gonna you're going to be alive after the fact. Yeah it's about taking control instead of waiting for someone to express our interest which we still don't really know what that could look like 'cause some of us don't understand certain signs so why not take control and move things forward. I used to be that girl who was like. I can't be the one making the first move. 'cause i've had guy friends. Tell me that that. I lose my value if i do. Not and then i turn around and go. I want those guy friends like. She's i wanna date. So why asking them for advice. Who cares what they think right. And that's why the single. So i i think we i think that piece of vices show great for all of us to hear is what do i want right now in. Wouldn't they do in this moment to get what i want. That's a really good psych way into our takeaways. Because i feel like. I mean there's so much that i've gathered from this whole conversation and we always say a lot of its evolution. I think it's actually good that you use the dating apps and i'm very pro dating app. I met my boyfriend out day. The app it can definitely happen but i do think especially for someone. That's cutting getting new into leading. It's a really good way to be exposed to a lot of people in learn what you do like in what you don't like kinda get you over that harm so like you said the right person comes around and you know you know like you're like i am ready for this person.

01:15:01 - 01:20:03

I'm ready to kind of make something more. I've gotten that fuck voip girl energy out and ready to move on so it's all a process and in general we're saying with the making the moves and stuff so many times no one's making any moves just it's action keno. North action goes further than echo. And i think that's so important because so many times we've let ego get in the way just nothing happens right. you know. it's so funny to about any of those. Those guy friends that have that advice. That's really kinda shit later on. You see this happen all the time where those type of fuck boy guys and those sort of alpha male dudes will end up in a relationship with a woman who doesn't take their shit like that never listened to that advice if their husband or boyfriend gave that to them. You see that all the time where they just like. They're like yeah used to be like this. And then i met her and you know. The dynamics sort of changed. It's like i. I didn't lose myself as a person this is just we get each other and i don't i don't feel like i need to play some mind game on her and i know she's not going to do it back to me. Nobody wants to feel like they're being manipulated. And once you find that person that doesn't that makes you feel like you can be yourself then you will look back at the person you were like. I can't believe i'm with this person. But it makes so much sense. It would make so much sense at the time. You don't even think about it when you find a person that just makes you go. I can be me. I think also people always ask. I don't have that much d. Experience in my add a disservice. I almost think you're at like an advantage because you don't have this jaded behavior we're talking about just the bare minimum and i think people shouldn't succumb to doing that. And playing these games. And i think we always say it's like fuck all these rules that were told to us. They're not going to help you. And i think sometimes people feel like they need to game dating and figure it all out in like you just saying at the end of the day. It's all about being yourself and staying true to your values in being a good person. There's no reason why we should just turn to shit humans because we're on data gaps. Yeah yeah 'cause yeah that's what we do. We have something that seems kinda cool at first and then we try to fuck it up so court yes rise above that my biggest takeaway from this conversation is thanks for reminding me bat. Modern dating has become where being in the negative is the norm. And then somehow when you're a status quo that's like the most amazing thing in the world. So i would take away from. This conversation is challenge everyone out there to added an extra ten percent in addition to meeting the minimum requirements of being good person. What's that extra ten percent of bringing cheeses and chips on a first day instead of flowers. That's i feel like that's the extra ten percent that even if the relationship doesn't work out the date doesn't turn romantic. You have just made someone's day by just adding an extra ten percent and it's the least we can really do so. Let's stop living in the negative. Let's go on the positive. Even the bare minimum is just not being so much negativity of people complaining about day. Day at all the stuff. It's like just bring a positive attitude. At the end of the day people are looking for someone fun to be around breath of fresh air. And we always say. If you're planning to your friends likely that seeping into your daily life to right and it's always sort of for like you. Can you can find positive out of a negative so like you try and shoot your shot or you do something kinda goofy sillier or you try to be yourself at dinner. And it doesn't get reciprocated at the table. The positive is you get to go back and tell your friends. What shit date you had and then you you know how funny bad dating stories are the amount of times on our podcast. Someone sends us a story. About how like it just fucking went awry and on of joy. Get hearing that. Especially if it's like a close friend or they're telling you a story and you're like yo. I cannot believe that happened. That's hilarious and you get to like live that experience and then go on to the next one. I just remember. It's update that you said your podcast. Because greg had a bit of a part of the story to write your co host greg ult- like he thought that you had raider. We're gonna hit it off in. Had her covers guest almost to set you up right. At the time i feel like a takeaway chu is you. Don't have your friends accent. Sounds like you've had a group of friends throughout this whole process sunday. Be giving better advice than others. Maybe some questionable boy advice in there. But i think at the end of the day that is how people can get through this period to is having friends that are looking out with that whether that someone event with so negative energy doesn't come out on dates or having someone that's like that person's going to be amazing for you. I'm gonna kinda slyly make it happen. Yeah and all those girls to try to turn me into a fuck boy. We're the same girls that were like this girl's into you talk to her and they gave you the confidence they so they.

01:20:03 - 01:25:01

They're just they're just trying to help. Good good or bad advice and they and they your friends no you in a way. You don't know yourself you you know you can never fully really know you and you can and they can never really fully know you but they know you in in their in their outside view of you and your actions. You're not aware of. They see that shit. So then in their mind they go. Ooh kane's like this rain is like this. That kind of seems like that fits perfectly. And i'll just be in your head running around and all of the i don't know trust me. Shoot your shot and see what happens. Yeah they probably knew when they were suggesting. You fucked void. You just weren't ready then tourists. They probably were looking out for you then even though it might sound funny when we talk about funding coming from a good place to the essay to those friends. Because i've definitely been one of those friends is at any given time when you are giving your friends advice. We have the opportunity to give them advice to turn them into people or to steer them in a direction of good instead of bad. So if you truly believe that your friend is going through heartbreak or going through something and you want them to get out of this place maybe encourage them to go to a retreat or go. Read this book or listening to this podcast. I says go fuck as many women as you want right. I i think we can all take that responsibility right road. Kill as you a calls it. We don't want women that gave you that advice day. Sure as hell don't wanna be the road. Kill the fuck boys who combative ice right. The shoe yeah. Like if i walked up to them and try to just hump and dump. They'd be fucking so mad at me so mad at me but they gave me that advice anyway right because like we're conditioned to think that way we were conditions. Tell men that you heard this from kids. Men who reminisce about the times when their kids and their ants will come over and be like. How many girlfriends do you have. And that's like a thing it's like oh q. You have like five girlfriends. 'cause we condition that in a society and i think we can take responsibility to end that cycle. Yeah fuck the fun boys. That's created from little ants from ants. No from their ants when they're little that's what i meant to say not little an. Oh from their hands yes there. Antonio ants ants are very very. They push that they do definitely pushed that narrative like oh my god. He's going to have so many girlfriends. Your kids he's a little heartbreaker he's gonna ruin her life and her life and her life in other girls let it ride is like fuck. He did what did you. What do you know. Aunt becky you fucking asshole lost half my shit. I married your stupid ass nephew who broke my goddamn heart. I told you a little heartbreaker isn't he. He's thirty five. He took all my shit and my dog. please do a bit on. This is my aunt fucked me up for life. Toxic aunt or giving given cherry also can't let our audience know where they can find you in your podcast. You can find on itunes or anywhere you look up just dtp f f which stands for. Don't take bullshit from fuckers or dt bff podcast which you can follow on instagram. And you could follow me at. Cain holloway on instagram and To kane holloway dot com have show dates up there for upcoming shows and And that's that's pretty much. Oh i have. I have a special in an album out ones on spotify and one's on my youtube channel and you can check out check out those think. Yeah they're both for free on on those platforms. Thank you so much for being on our show. Thanks for having us on your show. Thank you for showing us. Not all men are capable being fuck boys and have to really try to be one refreshing to hear that for all of our listeners. What really helps us is when you give us a five star review rating in apple podcasts. Because it helps get guests like cain who is in effect boy so the more stars us we get the clothes for more fuck boys die okay for each five star review not is not an incentive to rate us. Right this minute. I don't know what is sign the fuck boy. The sole in a foot boy dies and then a suit and a little bowtie gets clipped onto their onto their throat and then they go and try to live a respectful life every apple podcasts rating at a time.

01:25:01 - 01:27:16

A lot of a lot of gym memberships just died right now. All the dick pics disappeared from the universe. Cloud right down Yes flying away. Every time you get a five star rating a dick pic gets clarence. We're around shop. Thanks again as always. We will definitely have you back because we can keep this conversation going in. Of course we want to check in how things are going with this raina over there. It's a wrap it up a dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcasts. Tag as an any post with hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website. Dateable podcasts dot com. You'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium wiser you square we dissect analyze offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free on spotify apple. Podcast google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave a review and most importantly remember to stay. Dateable savings starts with internet and wireless from xfinity because when you get expended internet and mobile you can save up to four hundred dollars a year on wireless enjoy fast reliable internet at home and nationwide five on the go included at no extra cost get xfinity internet and mobile together and ask how to get an eligible five g. phone on us and for a limited time three hundred dollars back. Don't miss out go to xfinity dot com slash. Start saving. call one eight hundred xfinity or visit us today. Restrictions apply saving space on optimize pricing. Actual savings may vary.