S12E8: The Etiquette of Modern Dating

00:00:01 - 00:05:02

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we really try to get to the bottom of. Why people do the things they do. And why do you do the things that you do. halo julie. Nobody thinks that we do so every time i say that. In our intro. Now it makes me question. Everything i do. Oh a hundred percent the odd dating. But it's actually a perfect episode that we have week about an etiquette of day. Is i think there's a lot of things that happened day to day. You do question why by doing this. What should i be doing handling this correctly. I think the questions go audit odd You know there is no emily post anymore. There's no like guide that we used to have back in the day and they're just all these like unwritten expectations and rules that keep changing with modern dating so we gotta keep up with them but also they're up for discussion to it's not like they're written in stone so i think in this episode we do question a few of them and i think it opens up a conversation for all of us to talk about like. Is this still an etiquette that we wanna follow. Warriors is something we want to evolve from. We're very lucky to have mike for this episode. Because she's quite well known in the space and she's also someone who is not a stickler for traditional dating etiquette and she's constantly evolving her business along with modern dating culture so We're very lucky to have her as a guest. Yeah it was great to talk to her. I think also like with so much changing right now with no the way we date like gender roles like there's a lot on the table etiquette so before we get to that episode. It's been a very eventful day. I went to the stop. Asian hate rally here in los angeles in korea town. I was pleasantly surprised because our very own. Mainly mike girl crush wish the mc you of this entire rally was extremely organized they had about ten speakers ranging from politicians to local leaders as well as a high school kid who made a very powerful speech. I got really emotional julie. I didn't think i. I was just like oh i wanna go and support my community but i didn't realize that it would bring up all these emotions of years and years of just suppressed and internalized anger. That really came through. I'm wearing my shirt. i love his dot. Asian hate shirt. I love it. I wanna get would get thinking we should make dateable ones to say like date without hey. Bq that's a good one. I definitely wish. I actually went to a rally like very under the weather the last week as you know but i do feel like rallies or a great way to support what other i'd be. I can only imagine that you feel it even more when it's your race like a question of the whole thing but i definitely felt emotional when i went to the black lives matter rallies so i could see a hundred percent how you could feel that way amplify you know when it's your own and then we talked about this last time to with win the blm Rallies were going on you do you you show support. However you think support should be shown i really was compelled. I'm not usually a rally person. I was very much compelled this time to show to show support in this way and what i realized once i got there was. It wasn't really about me showing support. A was actually very educational. I went to learn about what was happening. And what can be done. The point and it was really great. Everybody that came onstage. Just speak said this line. They said now. Time this timer change. And i really feel like change is in the air when it comes to the asian community. Which hasn't really banded together like this in the past so i'm really proud of what we've done as a community but there's just so much more learning for us to do but back to that high school kid that came on stage to give this really powerful speech and may loved him. He said this ever. Since i was little i was told to walk away. You see bullying you walk away. You see something wrong. You walk away. You see violence. You walk away. He said i'm done walking away now. It's my time to stand up and speak up. And i was like holy shit. I i was like going.

00:05:02 - 00:10:04

And there were a five or six high school kids up on stage with him with signs and it starts with them. And i kept thinking like this is what a why we need this. It's the future of our generations. Who are who are going to be victims of discrimination. We don't do something about it. I also saw a great shirt. That said it's a nation not discrimination. Ou oh seventy virtually no. I mean i so oppressed by gen z. Like they were the ones then. Good is i mean. There was like a rally in san francisco for lab that was what like twenty thousand people going across golden gate bridge. It was insane. It was organized by gen zero highschoolers. Your hats off to like jen's ears are undoing. All the bad things that we've done and our other generations before us because jen's ears are not they don't come into this world with hate let me see it. And they're the ones cleaning our mess right now. So thank you for taking on that responsibility. You're a very good generation. I think though some of it though is that a lot of the stuff has been ingrained in us so long to actually kinda ties back to last week's episode with toxic masculinity. And you know we talked about all the things that you know even as women would say the man because we like perpetuated these situations. We actually got a comment on youtube. That i thought was interesting. That was toxic. Femininity is a novel. To and i agree to be. At least feminism is equality at. I think like toxic femininity is where we start to bed hate so i do totally see that point but i don't think either it's like toxic masculinity or toxic femininity but the fact that we're like pointing fingers also shows that there's a larger problem too and that's the point here is we need to stop pointing fingers in the first place to go is to look inward and think about what are the beliefs that you have grown up with. That are so ingrained in you. And now's the time to challenge those beliefs and one very good. Example is very recently a listener of ours. Emailed in and Called me out for something. I said in a previous episode. It was ysx closeted and i made a comment about how asian women were the gateway for homosexuality. A lot of gay men do a layover with women before they become fully fully out. You know i. I very much respect that. This woman called me out and said why. Why are you so perpetuating these stereotypes of asian women and i had to stop and think. Why did i say that you know. That's something i've been saying for years. Something i've been telling people. I thought it was an interesting fact. I i read it in the book. Middlesex but i never stopped to think. Why am i still supporting this fact. Because it is based in a stereotype of asian women being one androgynous and too feminine. So these are two combination of characteristics that make it okay for a closeted man to be in a relationship with before they fully come out and even saying that even joking evens a statement. It doesn't matter. It perpetuates those stereotypes. So i fully own up to the comment and i fully own up to the fact that i didn't even stop and think about how that affected this entire movement as a whole and how undermining what we're going through so i appreciate all the call outs. Julian are putting ourselves in the public here and we're not always right so i really appreciate when people can come back with constructive criticism and to call us out for things that we say that. We probably should not be saying well as one of our pass. Chris said she was calling you in dot colleague. You out. I appreciate assets of it. Actually you know like i think. Sometimes i remember when you said that on the episode in because you're asian. I didn't think anything of it. I was like oh. She's saying yet. I i if i had said that it would have been like. Oh i that's clearly inappropriate but in a way like using your own race kind of gives you like a get out of jail free card ninety five definitely like said stuff about jewish people before about being cheap. And i'm like i don't like that stereotype. Why would i say something like in in a way you're like oh it's okay 'cause i am saying it about myself. It does just perpetuated. That's not like yeah. It's like helping anyone so we have to cut. This and i heard jokes about like comedians. Have done this for years so yes. It's it's hard though because it's like at some level this is the world that we're in that like every word is scrutinized but it is bringing awareness to things. That just aren't okay anymore. It's good scrutinized. I used to think we're hypersensitive but it is. Good to scrutinize because it makes you pause and think and after everything that's been happening recently.

00:10:04 - 00:15:03

I just. I'm going to take a pledge to pause and think about the things that i say i'm gonna look inward and question my beliefs because i really believe for change to happen as starts with us. We can't say all the world needs to do this. We need better leaders. We need better this. No we need better people from the inside out so if we can all just be that person and make a pledge to yourself. If i see something that's inappropriate. I'm gonna call it out if i hear something inappropriate coming out of myself. I'm gonna call myself make that promise to yourself. If we can all take responsibility for own words and actions this world will become a better place. I think positive thing is a key word here. Positive think is something that we can apply to our daily lives. One hundred percent it. Actually i had this revelation. This week. That i wanted to share with. Oh yes please. So it actually like cavs back to the fats like utah this way but i been actively looking for a house to owed as type home and we've talked about this. What you bought a house that there's a lot of parallels to dig many. You're like odd hitter but a zillow and you're like you know. Does this beat all by expectations lake. There's a lot of choices. it's a deception. it's kind of like up there at who you're gonna spend the rest of your life for sure so i've been going out with my realtor zar rowbotham who by the way. I'm just gonna give her a quick plug because she is freaky phenomenal shape and at the sf bay area. That's looking for a real attorney like Definitely checkout rowbotham real estate dot com. Or if you can't remember that you could just do zara real estate at gmail.com leagues zara. Like the clothing store. I'll give that plug. I and also a ton of our friends have bought zara ton of our friends this year. She does shed and she also joked to. This is where getting into it with her. She joked that she's also part time. Therapist colleges you know. It's like move over bartender. it's the realtors that really got. Get all your emotions on load. Like she's like you at dot believe selling sunset needs to like do a show that shows like the insider bill estate of like his. It's like you're about to drop like all the buddy you've earned for like frikkie your whole life on this purchase. Can you imagine the emotions going through. It's like your athey altered your like. Should i do this. Should i talk to him anyways. I've definitely had a bogut that i've seen a lot of places. But i'm kind of like i said to her like i like everything i've seen that i haven't been like this is the one in a lot of people say that they get that feeling when they see the property that they end up being with and it actually made me think about data at a like. I think this is how i have indeed to like. I think a lot of it probably stems from my perfectionist tendency right. I'm a perfectionist from our skuas episode at all that I was speaking about like logan to locate jury one of our past guests her like three. Basically what type of data are you. Are you the hesitate or are you the back spicer. Are you the robot to size her. It like a by the robot to size her. That i know exactly what i wanted but it is it realistic if i realistically going to five something that has all the qualities if the price point it the location like just having this massive list that never. Let's move forward. Because i have unrealistic expectations more by the hesitate her. Because you know there's a little bit of be that's like unsure of a few things in my life and i'm like is this the right time to commit. It's kind of like when you don't have like your career. One hundred percent in a relationship. Is it the right time to commit to a serious relationship or am i the maximize that i think that there's something better out there every turn to the way so it was like wow there's really so many parallels with the real estate that i think that you know real estate agents really should be the next data coaches interesting interesting correlation there. When i found my place. I definitely certainly did not think it was the one i looked at fifty places and i came to this conclusion that i probably will not find the one when it came to my dream house. But my boyfriend said this to me. As long foundations are good everything else can be changed. And i feel that apply sedating to as long as someone's foundationally a good person and you feel like you can be with them and you align everything else can change it super easy so i feel like in the last month that i've lived at my new place i've made it into the one for me and i'm completely utterly in love with it. Now wow that is the best parallel dating. I've ever heard it'd be. That's really where the perfectionist are getting held back like by salve.

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Is that i think for be. What's something has held me back is that i have this idea of the person that i want and because i've dated enough because i've had enough relationships that i'd like i know what qualities i really jive with that. It's good 'cause. I'll do it when i see it but that on the other side baby. It's not letting people that have enough of the foundation grow into that wad like you were just say And one of the hesitations about my place is that a family of four lived here before. And i kept thinking. Oh my gosh. This is seen so many hands. So many butts toilets you. It felt so used but at the same time. Now that i've lived in this place. And i've learned to love it. I realized this place has loved so many people and so many have loved it back that it made me feel really warm. It felt it felt like broken into like a nice pair of pj's if felt really like home. Here's another parallel to you to is that everyone is going to be that used to house. Reading someone's live in that house before but instead of looking at it as author hands has been on have been on this house or damage this house. This house has given love and has been loved back by others. i also just want to point out. What a way to change your mindset. It's been right. Hey you're welcome. You're welcome so julie's going to go out there and find her dream house today. What zara was saying. She's like i think that the mindset does shift because when you're ready that you walk in and you start to see these places as being in and that will you say that all the time with dated once you're ready when the back to like the episode do jesse cassie when your light is on not to throw sex in the city reference. But we'll do it. The light is on right. The light is the last tie into etiquette that i was actually thinking about with real estate. There was one that i totally did this thing. That like you know how you gotta date and you show up. You're like this was the best date ever. i would abreu ford with it. I had such a good time. And then you get home. But you're like did i. Did i have a great time. I totally did that. To a realtor not by realtor but the real underselling. I was like. I'm so into this place to go home at like. Look at all the paperwork and reach out with all the questions that i got that feeling of lying. Actually this isn't it. And then. I just ghosted up. Like is that bad etiquette like should i followed up. I don't know nobody parallels today. Big I feel like we could spend hours on the parallels dating right now because you can also rent or you can buy you can. Oh yeah and the list goes on. maybe we should. Actually we are going to try like a little bit of a new segment. Here get really questions from you all. We want to take a second to be able to answer saab so please continue to send your questions. And whether that's like through. The facebook community loved the china krona. If you're not already in it now will drop it here for if you just want to email us. Hello dateable podcasts. Dot com we get tons of eagles. But we're going to try to like pick words that are relevant to the topic to just to bring it home so we actually got one that i fitted it super well with devi etiquette. So you should. We do just like a quick cut acuity with it. Yeah we're kind of bringing back question of the day we figure this a good time to bring it up in our intros so the question we've gone and we've actually gotten the same question from a few different people. It's a been on a few bad video dates and pay and so bad. Sometimes that i just wanna get off the call pretty early. But i don't know what's proper etiquette. Is there something that i can say or do so. It doesn't hurt the other person's feelings for trying to get out of a video date or getting off a video call. I feel like this with Work meetings i get out of but zoom call like our how early it is a little harder on video dates because you see them face to face on the phone could be like. Oh i'm cooking dinner or you make up an excuse but on video. It's harder to lie. So i would say don't lie but also don't be that honest like this is a terrible videotape. I need to get out. I think something that i tend to do is just like okay at like. It's been really fun talking to you. I'm tired now. I've had back to back. Work video calls. So if you don't mind i would love to. Just you know get on with my night or go cook dinner or whatever your next activity would be because it's just showing that it's not about them. It's really about just your day. In general i love that. It's like zoom flavored on after cheek. Right the other trick i have. This is a great at capital. Throw it out. Now that i'll go to buy actual is that my phone is about to die which knowing me.

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It is a lot of times if i probably not the best etiquette but i think like etiquette wise. I think i see were. This question is coming in because it's really freaking awkward to tell someone like i don't want to keep talking to you on a video on my couch where i'm doing nothing rather like go back and watch. Tv by myself. They continue this conversation. That's a hard conversation to have. If you wanna get out of it so i think like having some sort of plan i get that nowadays that we don't have as many plans lined up. But you know things are reopening people are like we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic or you could even just be like. I have my virtual soundboard event or i have my virtual game night with friends whatever it may be. I think there's many ways that you can kind of spin that and having like some sort of exit plan it also makes you more well rounded. It shows that you're not someone that's just spending hours and hours and hours on video calls whether you like them or not but it also gives you that out yes and to prevent this conversation from happening just in general is just set some parameters. I think there's nothing wrong with going into video. Date saying i get video or zoom fatigued very easily so i would love to keep our video date to then you know at thirty minutes. Everyone gets to get out. You don't have to make excuses anymore. I think just setting the expectations from the very beginning. Now that you know yourself well is better then trying to make him excuse in the moment. That's a great idea. Because you could always have another video call or real life if you like the person and then if you don't you have it out now. Yup i think the other piece to is doses. Like a little off topic but the etiquette. Like if you really don't find them a match and they follow up after. I still think the etiquette follows through like if this was a real date like. Just tell them at that point like that. It wasn't the right fit. Like i think you can spin that in a nice way that they'll find their match positive that person out there just i don't feel like it's the right fit between us. I know people are hesitant to do that. Because it's virtual and all that but sometimes you really can't tell you just can't hold a conversation with someone. There's nothing wrong with cut out at that point. Just don't be like ghost and be an asshole essentially there you go hope that answered your question to a lot of you. That had the same question. Que sus shall we go into some sponsors. Here's a special message from our sponsor. Gobble do you remember at the beginning of the pandemic when everyone was like super pumped about cooking and sharing their food photos right. Remember that and like a million months later. No one's posing their food photos anymore. Because we're all so frigging sick of cooking. I know at least for me. I just need variety and my meals. And i can't -ccomplish that by just cooking on my own. That is why gobble is a perfect meal. Delivery solution because you can whip up delicious and healthy meals and fifteen minutes or less gobbling. Listen army of sous chefs that do the time consuming work for you. And we just tried them so glazed salmon and was divine. Everything comes with pre portioned fresh ingredients such as already chopped veggies spice blends perfectly summer sauces. Just pick meals from gobbles extensive menu each week including a variety of flavors classic dishes global recipes and delicious vegetarian options plus line of lean and clean recipes featuring low calorie and low carb options. And by the way they also have breakfast and desserts. Yeah that's right. See what a difference. Gobble will make for your household. They're offering our listeners. This fantastic limited time deal for six meals for just thirty. Six dollars plus free shipping. That's dinner for two people for three nights all for just thirty six bucks. An offer only available through gobble dot com slash. Dateable get a special offer now by going to gobble dot slash dat for six meals. Thirty six bucks. Okay so shall we. Should we hear all about modern dating etiquette. Take it away mica. What is etiquette luscious. I feel like it's an antiquated term. Now but it is the set of rules or customs that control except behavior in particular social groups or social situations. And you probably heard of emily posts in american author socialite who was famous for writing about etiquette. But now we have. Michael meyer talk about modern etiquette and tips to make you instantly more polished. Thirty seven years old currently lives in new york. She's been there for twelve years on and off or originally from sarasota florida and she is married high. Mica you. I am great. Thank you thank you for having me on. Thank you for being our first etiquette coach on dateable issues dubbed the queen of good manners who teaches kids teens and adults about topics including social behavior.

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Business dating dining weddings and more. She's also the author of modern etiquette. Made easy a five step method to mastering etiquette and we originally got in touch because of them reached out to us and was was had a really interesting pitch about just them. Oh etiquette in general but then we thought less opened the conversation and making more about modern etiquette like everything and they all it right. It is but it is kind of forgotten topic and we define what etiquette is. What do you think etiquette means when it when we're talking about like a dating sense to me everything and no matter what i'm teaching whether it stating or business a kit it all goes back to thinking about the other person i said thinking about you know an earlier when you mentioned that the antiquated as term. I get that all time before always do. We even need this anymore. It's actually. I always think it's it's more important. Justice department could argue now is ever before because everything is changing and really all it is kind of like a protocol by which to show respect other people so as we start dating you know in different types. Now there's video dating is like the new arm with going ed. So that didn't exist a year ago so now they're all these new rules. I think it's always like a set of guidelines more so than roles to help us be nice at the end of the day. It's kind of highs yet interesting. So what do you think's change the most modern times since like emily post put out all the traditional etiquette terms. I'm i own. I think i on every single. Emily book there ever was people nine. Select clean out their grandparents addicts in my donate them. My company amazing the oldest. And i would say the biggest thing would be gender and controls and see like for instance. I was reading an etiquette book that somebody sent me even from the nineties and as a social etiquette book and it was like women should stay seated at dinner say a man and a woman a man would be the only person to stand in the woman aceita who and that was the ninety s. And i kind of thought so. I think those are nowadays modern etiquette. I achieved someone. Walks up to your table. You both standard shaking. Never say who pays on a day in why who asks out as it used to be. If it was a man woman relationship the woman would have to wait to be approached. You could never mean things like that the one establishing these etiquette guidelines. I don't know who used to do it. But now i'm doing program guys guys we gotta get this so actually to be perfectly honest. I'm constantly making up neurons all the time all the time because these things never existed before if questions never existed we didn't have been mo- years ago we didn't have you know same. Sex relationships were event up into a certain point. You know you wouldn't talk about them in society. Even when you know my uncle growing up he is gay man in boston. He was like you could not like he lived during that time. And i hear historian michael. This is so cool. What you do because you're talking about. I was coaching a same sex marriage to gentlemen and was walking them through their grooms etiquette. And we were like cutting out all bride and groom sayings and who sits on the bride's siding. They're reading their etiquette book. And i was like let's rewrite these role. These are no longer modern. So yeah it's ass society about we need to evolve with so are there like any hard fast universal rules kind of apply to everyone when it comes to dating. I can think of a few offhand but love your thoughts. Yes you know. I think i mean for for me. It's almost like there's always a thank you if somebody agra picks up a tab or ever doesn't matter even if you don't like them and or you didn't feel like there was a big spark i still think if somebody took the time to ask you out and then treated you. It's a nice thing. Show gratitude i. I still think if someone asks you out or has the courage to do that or to approach you never to be rude. Because someone's feelings no matter how you feel or don't feel about them. I feel like like saying no most respectful way. You can because a lot of courage for people to do that. I still think my general guideline for who pays is liberal asks out is the person pays i ask. That doesn't matter gender. If i'm woman dating another woman mandating another man mandating woman women dating man does it matter. If i'm the person says listen. I want to take you to this concert on saturday night and at this time and then i'm the one who supplies the tickets.

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I don't get the ticket and say oh by the way it will be fifty dollars plan. I like so. I'm a big believer in. Yeah who asked who he is. I think one that stands out for me is like don't be on your own. I feel like that is like a universal. Someone is giving you their time like do not abuse that time that kind of also for light showing up super late get it like things happen but i think you should always like send text or something if you're going to be more than like a couple of minutes late. Yeah that's a big one for me. I agree completely. That is that is a perfect universal one. Because it's it's showing lack of respect for someone else's time and another universal one would be i think show up for that person. What i mean is like which yourself together you know a little bit. A little bit of someone took the time to come in. Meet you at a restaurant who are or even nowadays a video. You know you took the time to schedule you in in just like put your hair back or you know make yourself whatever it is that you need to make yourself look presentable. Look like you rolled out of bed is like openings for the effort friday member. A friend of mine did like. She's a dating coach. She did a mock date in myself and some other people were there like observing yet from afar in the guy showed up in gym shorts and we were like. I just like i get it like i guess i don't get it. I should've zagged ed butler. If you guy ever showed up in gym shorts it just the impression is adding. I don't give a fuck about state at all. Yeah yeah. I think such i feel like etiquette is a two step process. Step number one. Don't be an asshole so that's just baseline and then step two is how do you take it to the next level. Show up just a little extra for the person you're on a date with. What do you think about this scenario. Mica a friend of mine went on a day with sky. Now they met on they've met online and the messaging the messaging back and forth was very unclear. Who asked him out first. So here's like oh we should definitely need up. And she's like. Yeah maybe saturday. And he's like what do you think about this bar. And she's like that bar sounds good where we can go this one so it seemed like a joint effort and when they met up she felt like there was no chemistry. He ordered a his tab two drinks one for her one for him and the date ended after a drink and afterwards he asked her out again she was like. I'm sorry just not feeling it. I don't think there should be a second date. And he ended up vattimo requesting her for murdering. What do you think about this. This is not the first time. I actually you know i feel like you should never ask for money. Just because someone wasn't didn't react you the way that you wanted it's either. You are splitting the bill up front. And that's like like that if he wanted to ask for. He should've asked for front not just because she didn't want to see him again. I think that would be considered very rude. And i think she dodged a bullet. Yeah i think that just is you. Wouldn't you just don't treat people like that. It's not it's not like okay. I don't know it's almost like you were. You agreed to grow. Be willing to find. You actually put money toward her. And i just it rubs me the wrong way. I don't like it. The pain thing is really tricky. I always say pay with intentions. Not pay pay with expectations. And i think this case. He expected that if he paid for her she would accept a second date and when that wasn't mad he wanted his money back. Which is the worst way. Because you should go in with the intention that i want to pay for her regardless of what happens right rather someone just be like. Can we split it. I actually had this happen once. Like the guy was you can bend moments later. And i'm like we're just going to settle in it. Or like i'm not bed boeing you later like a probably never gonna see you again like come on. Yeah there double standard. Mike gotta love your opinion because you said it earlier like wherever ash pay. That's kind of like the new age rule that you're saying we have this situation though that it's like as women especially you and i both are kind of his elder millennial that and actually we're around the same age as you. It's like we have the old traditions within the new things that comment so even though like i fully understand in my mind that like it should be equal. There's something about like this tradition mad at gets in the way of that still and then there's other women for example other like no i wanna pay because i am an equal person all this so what do you do in this time. I so i think. I'm a little bit more like you both in that way You know although. I fully expect to pay and like if tomorrow tomorrow i were on a date and this happened. I would fully go in expecting to pay if i if i need to whatever but i think it's a really nice thing when someone treats you because sign of generosity and that they want to take care of you but not in the financial sense to me anymore.

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It's not like i don't have a job in there for us. It's like they want to treat me. Because they're jenner. Wanna take care of me and even if it's like a picnic day supply everything it's not necessarily about a financial things like they wanna take care of you and that's what i like about it. Is somebody now for me. It's i guess. I should be clear about whoever ass out and choose location. Whatever he's that is like the expectation for me. So for instance. If i go out and a guy asked me up. Picks everything and expectation is that he would pay. But i would never just sit there and wait for him to wallet like i would always like take out my wallet and show that i'm willing to be equal here But if he chose. The wine chose the restaurant like that was his budget. You that's what bothers about like that. It's not like hey mike where where should we go she go to the taco stand. Okay because i suggested it because it was within my budget but if someone literally kicks nicest restaurant in town hicks the wine they're playing host in. I don owen. Pf yourself the bill. That's where i that's where it doesn't work for me. That happened to me once. It was actually one of the most furious. Tonight's my life. Because like i remember this guy invited meets this really nice restaurant. I normally never except like restaurants as a first day in this. Actually let's steal that for future and we got there. There was just no connection stuck at this meal in that at the end the bill came and he wasn't looked even reaching forward at all so i don't know if he was assaulted a pick it up so eventually i was just like it. It sat for like ten minutes. It was so uncomfortable awkward. isn't that eventually just like okay. So we're splitting this up. And i'm like you don't know my financial situation like you don't want anything now. It was just so many reasons why there wasn't a second day but that was like the nail on the coffin or bay. You know that is awful that end. it's kind of like you know but don't you agree though it's not necessarily about like taking you to the nicest restaurant and not begin taking care of right because it has nothing to do with us not working and making her own way. It's like you want guess alexei. I plan this. I'm going to open the door. Not because you're a woman. But because i care about you because don't think you can do yourself because i want to care of you and it's like that sense of like you know mica you said it so clearly for me. Which is you're playing host. I don't want to be taken care of in the sense of. But i want to be taken care of in terms of guests is you're the one playing host than you take care of your gas and it doesn't matter the gender roles is like if you have friends in town you show them around your city because that's what they're doing your in house so i wanna make that distinction because it's not about. Who is the one financially providing it's more just the role of playing hosts. Yes exactly and i love what you said to. It's like you don't like you can go for a picnic. You could go for a coffee. You could go like drink. Like that's all a lot more affordable than going for that huge dinner where you just don't especially sticking someone with the bill on a huge dinner at their high nanteuil situation. So here's another situation. That happened another friend of mine. I think it's the same to know anything about it. She can happily married with a kid now. But this is all this all happen. Years ago she went on a date with a guy he planned out the entire date and he paid and all that took care of her and at at the end of the date. They went for a walk and she asked do you. Would you like some tea kind of a little thirsty. And he's like yeah. Let's do it so they went to tea shop in when it came time to pay so he's standing at the cash register he stepped back and said you are the one that requested the tea. So your turn to pay. I don't know. I'm a little conflicted about that. 'cause yes she is the one that requested it but he took that awkward. Get back and waited for her to step up to the register. I dunno i thought yeah. No i don't like that either. I think these unwritten etiquette to say this is all about social intelligence. All about the other people i although in that situation. He's technically right with the new guidelines of modern attica. He's technically right. she invited him. She suggested it she that was her thing but he then should never have said that he should have either. Just let her pay or you know in gone about it were however she never intended to that he should have stepped up to the play paid for paid for. And if that's what was happening and then that would have been his sign that he didn't wanna see her again. If he felt strongly about but to actually you would never tell someone you are paying. Now it's either like you do that or worst case. And i wouldn't even recommend this like it's like you pay for your own. You're right if the if you felt strongly about it but you wouldn't tell someone else now you're paying for me.

00:40:03 - 00:45:22

It's either splitting fifty-fifty or you're paying not now you're paying for. He's like doubly strange to me. Yeah dictating how. Someone else spends their money as good care. I also like under their rules of etiquette. Like if we like you know. Follow you and other people in the etiquette space. But i do think a lot of it is unwritten style right a lot of you descendants o.'neil intelligence and i think just because that's his set of rules does that mean it's her set of rules and you can't assume that like you either have to have a conversation or you need like just be normal about it correct. I agree and and it's also like i have the thing where i will say it's bad etiquette to cracked connecticut philly making uncomfortable right. This is such an amazing conversation head. But let's just take like a really quick break to talk about some messages that we have. This episode is brought to you by the book. Courage under fire known for her unique blend of action packed. Suspenseful stories set against the expanse and beauty of the american west new york times bestselling author lindsay mckenna brings us back to silver creek wyoming for a powerful story of one man's quest to protect the courageous woman. He loves from a dangerous threat to their future. So let's zoom in on the storyline seeking escape from her dark past. Chris taylor has silver creek to build a new life. Maybe she can finally be more than a hunted woman fleeing a vengeful killer. A man who's been after her nearly all her life but when the enraged stepbrother breaks out of prison and draws closer and closer to caress a rancher named chase a scene you can find more about this book courage under fire by lindsey mckenna at kensington books dot com or wherever books are sold. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you wanna make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reentered the dating scene. Maybe you've gone on one too. Many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one on one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating sherpas to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcasts dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcasts. Dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo. I don't want to harp on this payment paying too much. But i do still find it so fascinating so i got one more scenario k. Which is we've talked about this on previous episodes to it's the guilt guilt pay so when i mean by this is a few. My girlfriends will agree to this. Is we go on a date with someone and if we feel there's no chemistry we pick up a check out of guilt gaffe. Have you heard of this. What do you think about that. I've never heard that term guilt. Pay but i. Yeah so i think i actually think there's something to it because here's the thing because what i said in the beginning about if somebody pays for you you should still say. Thank you. This almost getting out of that. You're almost saying. I owe you nothing. Not even a thank you you know. You can thank someone at the end of the day for their time in meeting. It was really a you but then it takes away the awkward for me like that night or the next day thank you. That was really kind of union dinner because actually i for myself. I don't need to you. Know who i think. I don't know i just think yeah. I would do the same to be on our board. Okay yeah or i would at least on for maybe that person's insistent like no please. This is maya tree. And i also think if you offer and then the person released this you don't want the awkward back and forth like tug of tug of war i would offer And then i would kind of say. Okay we'll thank you so much really appreciate that. But i definitely agree and to this day. I go with my girlfriends. I'm an excellent one woman. Because i have no fear. Sit there and they'll send me sometimes talk to people to to bring you back to the table but sometimes we're at a bar and someone's possess even if that bottle of champagne that we know they were probably going to order for us. Looks good if we don't want to talk to that person we will say no. Thank you so kind. Like we're all set. We would never take free drinks. Anybody just for the free drinks ever great ruin kit for women. I think that's because i think that's where men get resentful and that's what actually like a lot of times men will say like will i don't wanna pay for this woman on the first day this day and age so many first dates never go anywhere in like that stereotype of like kind of women taking men for like free food and using writing way so i guess okay so i feel like we have so many things to talk about but this one is so interesting that i do on ask are also so it's like with payment so i st i love this idea of whose like hosting and i also think.

00:45:22 - 00:50:01

I don't know what your thoughts are on this. But i've been in situations where for example the guys like. Let's go for a picnic like i'll pick up wind. Do you wanna get cheese or something. Where the expectation is said ahead of time and for whatever reason that doesn't sit as bad with me than when i get the bill on the bill comes in. They're like argon pass. So i don't know if there's like what your thoughts are. Because i do here men loud and clear that like it's freaking expensive to date and you know like even if the woman asks like they're still mixed signals. I don't want to necessarily be the one that is like making her pay for the whole day in all of the alex. How can men navigate this if they are going on all these dates. That may never go anywhere. Yeah i know it's hard. Am you know. I think that is i would say know. Maybe it's a lesson being choosey and not just going out with one hundred people like i think you know. I'm a big believer. And look. I like the picnic idea. I liked that a lot. I think as long as that person if they are saying. Why don't you bring this as long as they're not signing you more expensive thing. You know what you favorite bottle of wine. I'm still a big believer in like. He should've taken the whole picnic if he was. I would rather than say. Let's just go for walk along the west side highway or along the bay like an rather than sign us. Yeah i guess seven of to get better. I mean i. I would say like when i got this. I wasn't like one hundred percent turned off. I wasn't like oh business either. Kind of like not. Middle neutral confusion. I mike at about it now and i'm like why didn't he just say i'll get the wine like if osama money to him right. Yeah i think where he's coming from though is probably place of a quality like operating Right i don't know i get it. I totally get it. I just think at the same time if we let's say if it's a male female relationship and in turn like maybe like however many dates then you decide that you want to. You want to maybe cook dinner you then. When like all make the steak please bring the potato salad and a tomato stakes. I just feel like In that respect it's kind of it's still we would be taking care of them you know. Yeah well i mean. I would say that the dinner parties i go to the host. Desa something you're in of the appetizers and then this group is in charge of the desert by in that kind of thing. I don't know it's a group thing in you kinda under stand how laborious it is to cook for all these people but when he one on one situation i would much rather just have him say these are things all be bring. If there's anything else you like feel free to bring that but on a day i feel fine and ninety guide dinner party or something like that but if it's a one to one i have a problem with it. Yeah yeah. I think it's a one to one. Yeah but i do think it's good at a kit if you're cooking dinner 'cause i love this. I've definitely cook dinner for boyfriends four. Like what type of wine should i. I think something like that is great. So what is your thoughts to as the relationship evolves like because. I think it's not sustainable. This day and age for men to be paying all the time. should it raise that like after that goes to one gender versus another like. Does it follow what you said. Like who just invites in kind of is even distribution that or is it like a split down the middle. I think you have to. I think it depends on the couple and on each. It's so situational like friends. Since my husband is very old fashioned you will about he pays like i'm paying for everything. That's like what i do and i take care of you and we were also in a very different financial plays. He knew i was. I had like an average okay job. He knew i didn't have an he wasn't a different position. So in that way you know. I think it can be so it can. It can be very. It's hard to put like a guideline on it. It circumstances but at the same time after our third day he let me then to bryce trims. My favorite ice cream shop. And i said i want to. You is from. Because i also feel guilty. I felt like the amount of money this man spends on me. And i guess i was like kuechley crushing on him but it also like something. I don't want it to be taking taking taking time. Why am i wasn't ready to invite him back from my house. Because i thought there are so many just different thoughts that go with that so the lodge my favorite ice cream store and mike treat and i was very specific like i know it's not an expensive treat but it's still my treat. This is my you know.

00:50:01 - 00:55:03

And i and he was like okay but just this once which made me love him more but you know but it was something like that and then and then what i started to do was then once. I felt safe around him. I started having my house all the time like i would cook for him was something where like i can go to a low cost. You know Grocer and buy something within my budget. You can make a knees in on very little. And that was what i did. I chose wine. That was in my budget and it was something that i think. Even though it wasn't i wasn't spending per se. What i would've i was going out. He still saw the effort. And how much are putting into it and like now a days. I even think how. I the question for you all because this topic. What do you think when if things are going really well. When do you think how many dates in would you okay as the first okay time just have somebody back to your house and and second part to that question. Not for here but i am. Generally interesting is what do think. How do you say things like this justin. Or if that's all he really wants to be a nice way to say it. I don't think there is a right time. I think every couple so different. Like i don't think i really firmly don't believe in like a three date rule or high five days or like the i mean the first night i think it all really depends on the chemistry that you're having what your expectations are and all of that so i don't like these hard fast roles i think though that being said sacks does bring other emotions into the equation so i think you need to be aware of yourself. What you're looking for in this partner like in also sex can be so much better with someone that you have a deep connection with. So if that's what you're looking for maybe it is good to hold out just seeking get a deeper connection. The etiquette here is interesting. How like what you just brought up of like how say it. And i've also been in the situation where a guy's been really cushy and i haven't been into it in that is also a tricky part too. I mean i think personally. I mean everyone should always respect everyone's boundaries and consent so it's to the etiquette beg it's more of just like this is a must have this is like this is beyond etiquette in terms of what you say. I think it's like i had a really great time with you. And i'm really enjoying getting to know you. I want us to be special or whatever it may be like. Give them encouragement but be firm in the sense. That like this is happening. So you say that you would say that upon inviting. That's what i'm saying is like how with it's like laying vita and tear. What if you're like because what if you you. What if you're a man and you want to invite someone over. Maybe you can't afford to be taking this person all the time i do want to come over. I'm good cook but like you don't want her to think or him. Think you're just inviting them over just to get them in bed. Oklahoma what is like you know. It's an interesting conversation. You'd i just like. I feel like it kind of would be like just something like you know. Just dinner no-strings-attached. At just want to invite you to release dinner. I love cooking young agonize. I yeah. I think like saying that. Because i i could see as a woman thinking that someone's being pushy if they're biting their house especially after. I don't know i'm still like. I just feel like there are other alternatives and like the etiquette side. Here like i think you could go to a park. I think you could do that picnic like if even if you're cook. Can you love to cook. Make some sandwiches and bring them to the picnic. Could do a drink or a coffee. That does not cost much. I think personally bringing some to your home is when you guys have established of this is gonna be something and you guys are both in the place like maybe you haven't had sex yet but there's been a lot of physical contact like you've made out heavily. Things have been progressing. I think it's a little presumptuous to invite someone to the home even if you caveat it. i don't know if i would fully believe it. 'cause there's always a hope that you do end up hooking both sides right right so i always going to be on the table for any takers but i do like it when the partner says something along the lines of. I really want to cook for you. That is really sweet. I wanna treat you to this recipe. That i think i'm really good at making so i personally think like the being really explicit about no expectations. No strings attached. I think that's optional. I don't i think. Just i don't know i don't. I don't think the man needs to say that. But just give your intention outright. Which is i really wanna treat you to some cooking. I could say like hey. You're not in place yet to come to my house. I totally understand. But i really am excited about you and i wanna cook for you.

00:55:03 - 01:00:03

I was yeah. It'd be like ninety so cutting giving someone in l. but also making it clear that what your intention is to provide for them in a way that might not be like a fancy dinner or something. That's monetary that way right and even like if he's not like for men. I'm not a good cook or something. I think there's so many options like Like with hellofresh. Right you go. It's like you the service you call and they send the meal. They send the wine like there for you. I'm so eventually especially now co bed right at once. People are able to your in york at least as soon as things start opening again when are seen each other ones one again so you are going to be having more people your house. Something that my boyfriend didn't beginning. That i really appreciate looking back on. What he did was he asked me to come over. I mean it was before we even had an official for a state. He asked me to come over for dinner to his place but he said so. I made reservations. I want our first date to be at this restaurant. It's next wednesday. That's when i was able to get reservation. But i still. I would love to see before. Then would you wanna come over to get like takeout so then for me. It felt like there was going to be another date after me coming over. Did you guys have sex. We did we did young. I'd like that. I like that. I'd like that. But he was like showing. It's not just going to be one often one night thing like that's not my intention here like one. Nice right yeah. I like that move sue. I remember at a friend once that had a guy do that and she was very taken back by because she was like. Oh i thought this was going somewhere now. He says he wants to like just needed. Just come to his house and be casual. Whatever and i think it really did take that conversation of no i actually just. I'm not like a guy that goes out a lot like to be around like a girlfriend in like be hanging out and all that stuff. So i think there was some conversation that happened but the initial i thought was. This is like more casual thing. Well then that's take the conversation there. Because the onus can't be all on the person who is being proactive and making them first move because etiquette also comes from the receiver to so you're on the receiving end. And you're not feeling yet what's proper etiquette of rejection. I'm straightforward there. I'm super like i will tell people. I think you should tell that person right away. I think if you're not feeling it or you're not comfortable at something than then it's okay verbalize. It's okay to be like ally. I take things really slow could go to saying You know i. I'm just i go extra slow and this is just my thing like oh that's good. I think the awkward parts when you make someone else feel awkward about the ad is you take back and put it on you like. I don't feel comfortable. it's it's me. Like i don this argo slough. This is my thing if someone leads in a kiss you. I cannot tell you the amount of kisses i had to dodge when i really wish i could have just like going back and telling yourself like. Just say thank you so much. I'm actually going to happen to cabraha. i don't you know. Thank you so much for offering. Walk me home. But i'm totally on. Thank you so much rather than just young onward think okay and then you end up in the dark underneath your stupid like manhattan cut and then you get a time on your cheek as just not nice. So like i back. Then i would have been much more vocal. I love the thank. you like. What you just said sounded so nice. Even though you're on away from you sh- etiquette right. That is that has proper etiquette. Yes you're right. It's new still have to think them for at least trying gesture. Got to rise. Oh yeah and then you just stay what you're uncomfortable with. What about after a i stay in. You're not feeling nets and no texts have been exchanged right after. Do you tell that person right away that you're not feeling it or do you. Just wait for them to text you. I would okay. So if that was the case i i would not reach out and be like dealing because then you also opened up. Yep me too. And then you're like you burn like sometimes things are better left unsaid. And i think instead of being like hey listen like starting an awkward conversation that i like. Why make it awkward. Rather than just saying sad. Just leave it. And only that region that teague like you are so interesting elegant loved hearing your stories about hiking up the volcano in hawaii. I didn't feel more than a connection. More than i love the alumni giving him some positive that i it a positive sandwich positive negative positive so you always deliver the bad news.

01:00:03 - 01:05:02

Finish out your something wonderful. That is my biggest pet peeve though in the world is when i get that tax and i'm like dude i don't like you either like this one guy that i bet him there was no connection at all without clear hijacks to star. It won't go into that but sent me an entire message like this paragraph of leg. This dad news. He had a break. I don't even remember your may like i'm sorry like people people who i like. People just feel like they have to like end things or whatever but you were reaching out to him. He should have allowed that well. The way i feel why. I think it's bad etiquette is the way it comes off me is that you're just trying to get the last word and and it's like an ego thing that's how all that is one hundred percent ego. I i bring back with her. I didn't like they need to say that women need to do that. But if you are on a date you don't feel anything and that person doesn't out you do not need to reach out to and things or say that you did not ill but also because it's all if both parties kind of just knew it and how the social intelligence to let it be dan it becomes hurtful than us that oh and by the way. Thank you again or meeting. I just feel like just unnecessary Gary i think though ghosting i mean i. I would assume you would agree ghosting. I think you should always if someone does reach out to you. I think what you said that congress the family which the positive sandwich. I think you need to do that like i think. Ghosting is just so like unacceptable. This point ghosting. To need is is just so unnecessary in wondering the worst. It just so unnecessary. Just be honest or just say you're you're not into that. I send their you know like to me. There's actually have really interesting on. There was just a study that was done about amount of people that have been ghosted hidden. It's really good so okay so here it is. I just brought it up on my accurate. So i i work with facebook. Different like etiquette things on mike Like different different different questions when the community asks than i kind of timing to give might use and so they did the survey and Sixty percent of americans say they have read see if someone has seen or read their message or senior message. So when you think about that think about how many people have. I write a message to somebody i lake. I will check. Sixty percent of people are checking to see. If you didn't oh like on facebook messenger or using a message. If i send a message to us in k. How's it going. Would you want like do you want to go out. I'm checking sixty. Four hundred people are like checking but then with the ghosting thing. it says. More americans have been ghosted by friend versus someone dated interestingly fifty four percent of americans that have been ghosts by fund. Forty six percent been goes by someone dating. I think that's probably bigger in bigger cities. i like. Stout here was unavailable may happen ghosted and had no idea that they were ousted. But i think stats. I've seen have been like a percent like it's the majority by far. Yes but i think there's something about like if someone sends you message and you're not interested. Just don't check it and not respond railing that to me bothers me even like at from a friend if if a friend like you know in a text message if you know especially if you're dating someone you can see someone's register whatsapp or you can see if somebody has renting her text messages. Just respond. say. Hey i'm things are crazy right now. Your i haven't forgotten about you or saw this it back to you when i might seem like it's almost like i don't know what that's called because there's not ghosting. But it's like just just communicate. Just tell me that you. Haven't you know dropped off as the plant when i see you. You've read my message. That that is huge. I have i get it. 'cause like we feel it. We need to respond immediately. Because we're all we all know. Everyone's like surgically attached to their phone but sometimes like you do genuinely are busy with something else. I feel feeling. I actually like it happens. But i feel like just that one message and i've definitely scientists with my mom all the time and i'm just like hey i'm just really unlike in the middle of something but let me call you later or let me call you tomorrow. So it's like you're not ignoring them but your knowledge ing that you can't actually get to this at this. Exact moment. Might not have a rule around that. Though i feel like casino i really hate small talk overtaxed. I think it goes nowhere when i was online dating. So many of these messages Just get into the texting. Black hole hated so my rule was only respond to messages that end in a question mark because they're asking me a question but if it's just something like super nice day out today what about.

01:05:02 - 01:10:01

Hey how are you that bothers no. It does bother me but at least i respond without a question. If they're right how are you. I'll be like. I'm doing great really busy today. But if this just a message like so beautiful out i don't have need to to that. That's a statement. And you're just putting like a yar really out there like it's a nice day i agree rates and we've heard people getting attended by that like out but i agree that i think if there's a way to write a role i think if someone asks you a question you need to acknowledge it and if they don't then they should have been asking you a question if they wanted the conversation to start. Yeah i like that angry. No that is a good one. What about topics that are. That are taboo because back in the day it's like don't talk about your ex or money or politics. I feel like anything goes. These days are are there any off limit topics etiquette wise I still think money as a weird one like even if that wasn't an old taboo topic. I still agree with that For modern at a still. Don't think anyone's i. It just like i feel anything around. Like for instance. You're on a date and someone's like how it's really expensive. That's even to me or because expensive. Ju but not me or vice versa or even like now somebody. Wow that is like wow like just anything about money. Were asking how much something costs or you know. I made this. Like i remember dating a man who on our second date on told me how much he he was a traitor and told me how much he had traded like how much he pulled in the day before he was taking me to this place because he made this much now is like. Hey that is so tacky. That by saying that i'm a trend. More attracted you like. Hey what is what do you think i am And you know. I just don't like any kind of money talk. I think it's it's it's not nice. It makes people feel insecure or it shows their insecurity by talking about money I don't like it. I think that's the key though. Because i think like satellite talking about politics or religion or x.'s. Even like relationship history. That's all stop. That could like help. See if someone is a good partner for you. But i think just like the rowing out like random things about money. catholic costs. Oh they think that's going to attract you in even if it secretly does even if that is impressive to you certainly not what you want to put out there that you're dating someone because their financial you know what they can do financially for you. Because i don't like. I don't know i love how everything goes back to money. Wouldn't you think about someone who comments about the price of drinks a bar. I've had someone went on a date with who like gosh. The prices of these drinks. It's through the roof. Don't you think like what do you think about. Seems like a very innocent comment. I that would drive me up the wall out the wall. I also think anything about money and dating kind of put people together where they should be. Because if then if i agree with you if you are sam day with a man and he says oh my gosh these cocktail that men hatton who price of manhattan sure is reflective or whatever little comment like an is in. I agree with him. And i say oh my gosh sane like we should definitely go somewhere else. Industrial people are probably ready for each other. Have i go out. And he says this manhattan is insane. And i'm thinking. I have four of those yesterday and this and that's probably not the right fit for this. You keep all kind of like it. Kind of you know needs weeds. People out in terms of their you know at the same time. I think it's fair. I have a lot of good friends. In being in a city like manhattan where the females are power house yet. They make more than five of my male friends. Combine these girls and they say they are always like listen. It has nothing to do with this in a man woman thing. If this person can't hang with me. And they i need to buy their own slate st bart's or their flights. I want them to buy their own. And i'm gonna buy my own and that's you know and i understand. I agree with that too. So i feel like you have to find somebody that can play on your field. So if this is a compatibility thing then why why is it bad etiquette because it still comes off weird i think talking about money can make people feel uncomfortable and that at the end of the day is what etiquette is a malays in place for it to make people feel comfortable etiquette. The truth of etiquette is to make people feel respected in that. You're putting their feelings. I am by putting something out there. That is they're bragging because you have so much money or say that's expensive making them feel awkward that maybe they were about to order that now they shouldn't.

01:10:01 - 01:15:00

It's all about making other people feel and money off knicks. People feel uncomfortable. I think that is a great way to cut a kickoff. Our takeaways in Star to end this conversation. But i think by biggest takeaway is like that. It's like think about this person. There's a human that you're on a date with an how would you want to feel respected in. Treat it like. I think of another example of just like kinda universal etiquette when. Someone just talks at you the whole time like that. Does it make you feel good. It doesn't make feel like someone wants to get to know you into be with you and that's what dating is all about so. I think the the rules of money. Whatever may be. It's like it's not that there's hard fast roles but it's taking into account. There's a human there you do not want to offend them. You want to make sure that you were giving them the best experience of a can't get because they are taking time out of their lives to and i think any way that you can do that and maybe you're unsure. You just need to have a conversation like there might be stuff that there's just no heart fast rules there some that. I think we can all agree that are just like they said common sense and decency. But just don't be afraid to have it in the think about to from your perspective. How would i wanna be treated on this date. If i was the other person in us that map to like outline your rules of etiquette. Yeah i feel like my takeaways very similar in that i feel like etiquette. The term gets a bad rap. It's it feels like it's imposed rules. Yes when it really should be a mindset and it's a really should be like your set of values. That's what i think okay. So what do i value the most when it comes to treating other people on how i want to be treated and i love what you said. Mica is thinking of the other person first so dating. This is what we fall guilty of all the time in modern dating is. It's all about me me me me. How does this person perceive me. When am i getting out of the state. What do they bring to the table for me. But if we switch it and say what can i provide for this person. I'm with who is giving up their time to be with me then. I think that etiquette part just comes naturally again not being an asshole part that you just said about values because it kind of goes back to the money one because i still think this is a tricky one in. I think that we've gotten some definitely good tips on. Has you know like is just so subjective based on your own values but maybe you are the type of guy or girl that really does believe in equality like that should be the partner. You're finding like if that is such a core belief of yours and you really truly hail it. You should be split everything down the middle or alternating. Who does what like. Maybe that is the partner you seek in. You're not looking for that person that wants to be paid for on the first date right. That's not man. He was looking for that equal partner. And yeah. Yep yeah mike at any closing remarks or anything that you just wanna kinda leave for our listeners. On i think just if it doesn't feel right don't do it. It doesn't sound right. Don't say it and just to remember that you never want to hurt someone because some of my most horrific dating like adventures. That i can remember. Stories is because i felt hurt and like even now i'm that's long about was a long time ago. I still remember it so that you know you can still. You can really affect somebody so just to be gentle and kind and hope that they can do for you. I love that. Because i do agree with you that like with us. I think like even if you're one tiny experience for someone if twenty people did that to them or you could five to them. It's going to really impact their psyche. When it comes to ending. And i loved what you said earlier gave so many good verbatim words that people could use a how you can say no inlet someone down but do it in a nice respectful way so i think a good rule of thumb to is if you ran into this person on the street. Would they be like. Oh that fucking asshole or would they be like okay. I'm cool saying you like. I think especially when you're in smaller cities like even san francisco. We run into people all the time and thinking about that. When you're leaving like lasting impressions on people. I mean there should be a sign that you're doing it for them but also just the fact that like this is a small city things get around and you wanna also preserve your own reputation at the same time to true. It's like being is respectful. Simple wouldn't harbor for people like people want to reach you. What's the best way for them to find you. Oh i'm so easy to reach. I am on instagram. Just my name is an why k. A. m. e. at mike meyer. I just launched a youtube channel.

01:15:00 - 01:17:29

I give lots of fun. Free lessons. That i have dating when coming up actually. Yeah and then. I have my two bucks now business etiquette meetings the and modern etiquette media. So i'm here and thank you so much for having me to brilliant et needed is this. I guess is so needed. Thank you all will link that. All in the show new to so people could easily find them absolutely. Thank you so much of We'll end this conversation. Say along the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolicked. Podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag us in any post with the hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcasts dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos in our coaching service. With vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. Also downloadable for free on spotify apple. Podcasts google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable look. Staying healthy isn't easy watching your diet hitting the gym avoiding stress. But a good night's rest helps boost your overall health and wellness and it couldn't be easier. The new sleep number three sixty smart bet is the only bad. That effortlessly adjusts in response to both of you. The result you wake up for anything. Proven quality sleep is life changing sleep and now the new queen sleep number three sixty c four smart bet is only fourteen thousand nine plus special financing only for a limited time special financing subject to credit approval minimum monthly payments required. See store for details. Look staying healthy isn't easy watching your diet hitting the gym avoiding stress but a good night's rest helps boost your overall health and wellness and it couldn't be easier. The new sleep number three sixty four is the only man. That effortlessly adjusts in response to both of you the result you wake up ready for anything. Proven quality sleep is life changing sleep. Don't miss our weekend special. Save a thousand dollars. Most popular smart bet and adjustable base plus special financing ends monday special financing subject to credit approval minimum monthly payments required. See store for details.

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