S12E6: Dating Younger Men

00:00:01 - 00:05:00

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another episode of the dateable podcast. We are you a lot of it like with you for five years. Who were you get but we do have a lotta do listeners. So it probably is good to actually say who the hell we are. Ya random voices reporting to you. Live from la and julie's reporting to you. Live from san francisco. I just wanted somewhere official. If you are new to the dateable podcast. Our mission is to get to the bottom of people's behaviors. Why do people do the things they do. When it comes to dating and last week we had this very controversial or polarizing episode about jesse and cassie who started out as friends with benefits. And now they're married. But the storyline is jesse used to be this playboy and then it turned into a family man wanting to settle down with one woman. Julie were you privy to some of these comments that we got on instagram. All the dmz did job responding to that but definitely share with people. Some of them some interesting. It's to cram comments that came in for sure. I think what was up for. Discussion was was jesse a player or was he just a guy wanting to explore the world and i wanted to just address that there are certain things on a podcast. We can't talk about because they you know there's some things about our past that we just want to preserve and not for everyone to hear so in my eyes. I think jesse was absolutely a player and not a malicious player. Just someone who just couldn't see himself being with one woman to shifting to wanting only cassie. I think shift was very drastic. I also think this common was interesting. Someone said i always assume that once you are friends with benefits you get put into that it and it's hard to come out of it and i've seen this happen with friends as well. Once you're in the friends with benefits or in the friends bucket. Heart turn that into a romantic bucket. the buckets do not cross pollinate. But in this situation. I think what was unique about it with that. There was so much time in between the two buckets for both of them to evolve and develop. Yeah i mean. I think some of it for sure is just stage of life that you're in like he was in his twenties when he was more of this so quote unquote player and i mean thinking back to a lot of us in our twenties. We either didn't know what we wanted or we were exploring in experiencing life whether that was multiple partners are just whatever life throughout you. So i do think there's kind of a combination here of the time all of that so i actually find it fascinating that this week. We're talking about dating younger men. And we're hearing from lindsey who's in her forties about dating people that are like what like fifteen. I think she said seventeen years. H gap so. Yeah i mean. I think there is definitely a lot of really interesting things that we will go into in this episode about. Just you know judgements that she's received but also how these relationships have been freaking amazing including the one that she's in today in. I think it actually did teach me a lot personally. Because i think i have a little bit of each bias. Sometimes i assume that like younger men aren't going to be serious like jesse right like like more fuck boy out to party but i think that is an assumption. That's not every guy in their twenties or thirties. Like that's some guy. Yeah i me to me. It's it's contextual for me. When i was thirty five data that twenty five year old. Remember julie and we met. Sf which is not the place to meet like your life partner so can textually first of all it was budi sa shed light booty sf for people that don't live in san francisco because every city has one of these like goudie sf could literally be in every city julie. The places called booty sf do i to expand anymore budi sf is a place you go to admit night which is really late for san francisco standards nightlife in san francisco doesn't really go past to two. Am so starting your night at twelve is very ambitious because booty actually closes at four and it's one of those places a warehouse space. They do mashup music.

00:05:00 - 00:10:01

They have different rooms. Dj's but the crowd that attracts. Oh yes are either those ending their night there so you can imagine how trashed and and disoriented. They are or the older folks who want to who want to watch the safari of wasted trash people. And i fall into the latter bucket where i liked it just loved snap place so i swear to god like i feel like you and another friend of ours. They'd always be like gunning to go there. And i actually just got major flash facts as you were talking about it so that one night where the three of us ended up there at like four. We were like in the last call group. Do you remember that. Like and the oldest people there. I'm sure they also stop serving alcohol. So it's like basically people that are trashed are on drugs one or the the only way they're open they're able to open pass to is that they have to stop serving alcohol at two but because people are so fucking drunk and high on whatever else by two. Am they don't care that there's just two hours of sobriety. Just they've got enough to last. But i that night we were there. I met this guy. Tenure age difference and right off the bat. I was like this is not going to be a serious relationship but he ended up taking me out on a really nice day. I think he tried really hard. And i felt like i kept. I was the one that kept putting him in the other bucket. He was trying to push for something a little bit more. Maybe not serious but at least to prove that he was he was more than disa- twenty five year old looking to fuck which by the way we never fought finger bank for ten hours straight miami. We're talking about this. So if you guys are livestream. This face became our topic. And i swear where we're adults here. I feel like maybe that is what big is though is like sometimes it's like okay by huber could potentially go with someone that's like way younger than me right. You're like well. My maturity level of surely surely is on par with you but my life goals are a little different hungry reconcile that but he was a really nice guy and i think i had the same feeling as you julie as i felt a little bias i felt like you're not even thirty. What are you doing even if he was looking for a series relationship. I would've questioned it and asked. Why are you been looking for that when you're so young so anyway. That's my my one experience with younger men but this episode opened my eyes up to some of the things that we just don't think about which is just like in general we make these lee make generalizations and we just need to be more. It's not even being sensitive to it but just having a more open mind. So i think lindsay really great job of prefacing. Everything was. this is my experience. Yeah this is my partner. This is what i said versus in most couples were. There's an age gap. This is what happens is not the case. She cannot speak for every couple out there. Totally actually lindsay inspired me to change my h. o. rights. I did not intend to run a daily experiment with us but a little. What happened this week. So i changed my age bucket. I think before. I was like thirty. Four to forty four or something or forni to maybe. I don't really remember fully. But i basically went to like thirty to forty eight and like thirty is pretty. I mean i'm thirty seven so that's still a seven year age gap like whoa So i went both ways. Both directions and i started talking to people in their thirties. And i started talking to people in their upper forties closer to fifty and very fascinating. Like i mean again. This is isolated to people. It was not intended to be a dating experiment just kind of fell into my lap in it was ironic because this week is the episode and i had two people one was a forty eight year old guy and he like asked to a video date and the day came around and i asked him if he would mind if we did it as a phone date first and then go into video because i personally have liked that better i feel like i can just like to get like dressed up for this video nailing. I can just be a little more casual conversation. I can flow a little bit better. Yes i get like video. We do it all the time. But there's still a little bit of awkwardness on a date with video. So i like to like get a little comfort level. So anyways i asked him if he'd be down to do a phone call i and he basically replied back it was like it's twenty. Twenty one video is the norm. Like i don't want to waste any time. Yes and i was like okay. Like i mean i've got on countless virtual dates at this point in.

00:10:01 - 00:15:03

No one has ever put up a fight. I mean honestly. What are we talking about half an hour to do a phone call and i was like we can new video after. I'm not like most video but the judgment. I think that's what bothered me and i was just like okay so i replied back. And he's like oh wait. I forgot the best part. He's like well you don't have a preference will do video. And i'll send you a link at seven so basically it was like like this is how many yeah. So i'm like. I was already like turned off and i'm like exactly the feeling that you're having. I'm like well i don't even wanna talk to this guy right now. So i basically replied. I'm like well. I do have a preference. That's why i asked if you're not open to it that maybe we just shouldn't chat. And then he just immediately blocked me and unabashed be visited. Matched never even replied. Well it's anyways not all forty eight year olds dot gonna do a judgment but i think sometimes you fake that people were they get older and it's it is on a person by person basis right. I just don't understand that. That's like if you tell someone that you you wanna use a condom and they're like it's twenty twenty one okay. The not that he uses condoms. cove in dot. Ns fuck where are you judging me for my preferences right and he was like. Oh why because you don't have any preferences i'm like well. No i wouldn't have said anything to you in the first place like it has nothing to do with video or phone call. It's the fact that he was so judgy totally. He was still persistent in in the video day. Yeah he ended up saving me an hour. Plus you know getting ready and doing this whole thing. But i was just like okay. Well that is definitely like kind of you. Know a case in point that just because you're older doesn't mean that you're always more mature in then. I also taught to this like lovely thirty thirty year old. I think he was thirty. That was like seem like he's like yeah. I really want to settle down like this very like conversation. That was so not what you would think of is like fuck boy like parading around booty. Sf right so. I might prove it. Yes if the sample size of two. But i was proven that like a need to look at people as an individual and not make those in the lincoln judgments on both and i'm sure there's many forty eight year olds that would happily do a phone call so i don't wanna like place judgment. That's all forty eight year olds but it was. Yeah it was. It was definitely kind of good to see that in action this week. Well then in this episode to lindsay brings up the age. There's like biological age and there's all these other ages you how you wanted to be your life stage age and it just sounds like your other ages aren't really matching. Even if your numbers age could match totally. And i mean like i personally have pretty much needed within a couple years myself like any like relationship i have. It's been give or take like one or two years like i haven't had major age disparities either direction. I mean i did have a four year gap with like an old friends with benefits the toxic one that i often bring up and i think some of it was that he was it was yes. It was four years but it was at a time in our life. That like four years actually did make a difference. I was like twenty eight ish and he was like twenty four so like it did. Make a difference. I think in that situation. But i do think like also the older you get. Maybe it doesn't matter as much maybe not i. Don't yeah. I don't really know i don't have a. I don't really have a theory about age. But what i do think is important to bring up as a people tend to say the statement. A lot is I attract younger attractive older. I tend to date people in this age range. It's not actually. That's what your best suited for. Its that once you date one person in that. Age range new. Psychologically you open yourself up to the age range more so you end up looking for more people in that age range. Same thing with a red car concept. If you're if you are consciously looking for red car on the car in the on the street you'll absolutely fine red cars but if you don't you may say oh i haven't seen redcar years so it's the same. I think we can stop. Say like i attract the certain group. It's not really true. It's just that you've you're just opening yourself up to this group more and you're noticing them more. Yeah i mean. I think it really does have to do with what energy you're putting out too late night. A couple of friends that are with people younger like one of our our mutual friend that we brought up booty. Sf with us like. She's dating someone ten years younger. She's always dated younger because she is a very young energy. I think like she. Edm music like she's like definitely someone that might have trouble with someone that wants to sit at home in like watch that. Oh yeah we'll time stop different personality and for years though like i am guilty of being like hey i think you do a date. Older like maybe. That's why things aren't working out because you're dating these twenty five girls fuck boys.

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But then she loud year twenty-seven-year-old. That wasn't like that so like yes. I think there still is some of that out. There are people. There are no like kind of like people progress at certain ages. It's not like totally wrong to like substance but there's always exceptions the role. It's never going to be like everyone. Yeah of course that's just love. Love works in mysterious ways and we just have to be open to all the ways they can come to you so before we get to our interview with lindsay. Shall we make some announcements. We had such a great livestream the other day where we brought on our first community member with a month that we were featuring on the livestream. So he's actually officially our second community member of the month but the first one we revealed to entire group through livestream ryan. Jeffrey who then it was like a multilevel reveal that he revealed the guy. He's been seeing matt on the livestream so it was like a double doubles surprise for everyone. It was such a lovely conversation but during the thirty minutes we talked about. We talked about finger banging quite a bit. So you know we really. We really liked to balance out our conversations with deep insight bullshit and then finger bang. This is how we can go old and young right. We're applicable to all ages. we're talking over at all but it was great. We're going to keep doing this with community member of the month. We have already. Some people have brought forward to people that are nominated. So we'll see who else comes for. They were actually people that were already top of mind anyways. So definitely if you're in the facebook community if you have someone that you're like this person did like they just embody all dateable qualities like. They're you know listening to other perspectives. They're supportive. They're not making rash like mansa comments. You know like all of that. And that's really what we're looking for is like those people that take in the different perspectives. And they self reflect also innocuous blame others so yeah. We're gonna keep doing this. We also have an accelerated. Outspent related to ryan jeffrey to he was also the witter of our merch contest. Just kidding i feel like he's been winning a lot lately but he is just freaking amazing he The saying was own your baggage. Don't just carry it around so merchants live. We have it now on sweatshirts on bags on a backpack like we gotta get the baggage in there. So we have a fanny. Pack is available sensor pouch ship. You got it all so if you've been waiting for this to happen you can now get it at dateable podcast dot com slash shop. We should put it on underwear baggage package. I like it at the same deal own. It bring it around or carried it around. We'll see if that's available. Maybe next week we update as if you're waiting for your own your baggage and then i'll keep you posted. We'll see possible full of good ideas. Eight the other big announcement that we wanna make. Is that this week. We have our dateable after show. That's part of the sounding. Board with the fabulous can paid. We'd love for anyone that doesn't know him. I won't go back and listen to his episode like it was phenomenal. It's called deeper dating. His podcast is deeper dating. His book is deeper dinning but he is like a psychotherapist and he has been like in psychology today like author like he's a new york times accused like legit and he is going to take us through like a workshop of basically Date deeper whether you're dating new people or dating your partner of ten years you know there's always ways to date deeper and then also how do we resolve the stating trauma like then comes up in like use it not to hinder us to d- but use it in a way to actually deeper informed connections with new people campaign just phenomenal on so many levels but it's real for me it's really because he talks the talk and he walks the walk. The man went through lots of challenges during his dating life to now being in a loving committed strong relationship with his husband but he seen it all. He's seen the good bad and ugly. He made the mistakes. He survived them to tell us all about them in the learnings from them. That's why i really respect this man because he's not just like ooh. I'm in academia about these theories. No he lived these things yes he did. So yeah if you're interested in joining go to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. If you can't make the event you still probably should be in the saudi board so check it out. We keep hearing from people just like how incredible this community is. We see at firsthand ourselves.

00:20:01 - 00:25:01

Like i talked to. We'll give a shoutout to michael one of our members. I talked to him the other day and he was saying like it's like he didn't even realize all the treasures of the chest of this every day like find something new in this community. He's i didn't even realize like the happy hours like these insightful conversations and like i don't know i think sometimes people think like zoom happy hours like frigging kill me now but this is yacht how they are and i think sometimes it's just experience again and you know like if it's not for you you can always leave. It's not like you have to do like ten year commitment. It's on a month-to-month basis. So it's it's in a way. It's pretty risk free and for all of you new to new dateable. Thank you so much for tuning in if you wanna find out more about something board and what it is. It's a curated community. That's an extension of our podcast. Something i really miss during the pandemic as a sense of community and just are livestream. Last night you could really feel the community of what is presented in this group. The fact that win ryan brought up. Matt people knew who he was. That's the guy you've been talking about. It was so fuel all new man so excited to meet matt. Who ryan's been talking about. But when you step back you're like oh my gosh. Nobody's really met in person yet yet. We're so invested in each other's personal lives. So that's what i really think is like the biggest value from the community essence of community. I think it's funny too. Is that lake. Ryan was in the general public facebook group for a bit. And i think he actually talked to janice our moderator. And he's like. I'm interested the sounding board but i don't really have time on thursdays like a lot going on. Been on a lot of these meetings already. I don't know if i want to do like video. So he joined the lowest level to just give it a shot and actually he said even just to support the podcast. Like i'll go. i'll go when i can. I won't when i wrote you know. And now he's literally their every week and he's been created to like the events tier and he's like they're like constantly you make time for what you wanna make time for me so i think when people say that like it might be that you just don't know the value yet that's totally valid but i think ultimately like if something is good for us it feeds our soul. It nourishes us. We're gonna make time for it sounding board. Should we go into sponsors this week. Yes here's a special message from our sponsor. Gobble do you remember at the beginning of the pandemic when everyone was like super pumped about cooking and sharing their food photos right over that and like a million months later. No one's posing their food photos anymore. Because we're all so frigging sick of cooking. I know at least for me. I just need variety and my meals. 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00:25:01 - 00:30:04

e. to get your dermatology visit for fifteen dollars off. So shall we get to lindsay. Let's hear lindsey story all about dating younger men. Ooh please age talking about age in this episode. Always a fun topic because you can always argue ages nothing but a but still plays into dating and that's why our guest is with us to talk about her experience with dating younger men. Her name is lindsey. She's in her forties. She's been in the bay area for at least twenty years originally from bay area and she's in a monogamous relationship. Hi lindsay how are you. I'm doing well thank you. Thanks for having me here. Things that are being on our show. We want to hear all about your stories and your experiences of dating younger men. And i'm guessing the person you're in a relationship with right now is a younger man. Like what is the age difference between you two. It is nine thousand nine years while vow this like the first relationship or is this like a continuing pattern not at all. This is my second relationship with a younger man I did have a relationship a few years back with a younger man who has maybe about seventeen years younger. Yeah and then my very. And then that i was married was he younger too or was no actually no. He was in my quote unquote age bracket so. Yeah yeah he was in my age bracket whatever that means to be honest with you post divorce even now dating younger men or have there been men that have been in your age bracket mixed in also now pretty much married my college sweetheart and then after we got divorced very amicable to force I started dating a younger co worker. And i was in my forties and i didn't know he was in his twenties. It was one of the relations. Because i just don't ask right and current relationship We met on an online dating app and he already knew what he was getting. That i was in my forties and i knew what i was getting that he was in his twenties to day in that i guess to date outside of your age bracket you also have to filter outside of your age bracket so. I'm curious to know what your filter your age filters were so. Initially i went in my age bracket age bracket is basically. It was thirty five to forty five. I didn't want to go higher than that. And the reason. Why is i think that men in my age bracket tend to be more settled in their ways and also. The relationship that i had before was on the online dating nap was a younger man. So by then my. I was attracted to younger bands so that became an away kind of comfort zone. But i wasn't. I wasn't blocked off to dating a man. You know that was in his forties or even his thirties. But so what. I noticed was. I wasn't getting many hips. And it wasn't until i expanded the age range to twenty one to fifty five that i just figured you know let's just do it. Ended up both ways. Yeah i said let's just see what apps for you on. I was on every single one of them. Okay huge bomb bowl. I was never on. What's the one that everyone was under. Tender young men are lindsay. Dumble is the one that i liked the best and the hits were i got so many hits it was yeah it was very interesting so it was easily from twenty one to maybe forty four and that was the top no one in their fifth. His responded really most of the men who did adam swipe right on me or men in their twenties. You know this is like a phenomenon though. i think it's like ashton kutcher. And demi moore kinda started it but it's like a known thing right that there are younger men that prefer older women. Actually think the whole ashton kutcher to me more thing that was because it was a hall. Hollywood couple rain but night. Believe strongly that this has been in existence for as long as humans been have been around. It's just that ashton kutcher. And demi moore it became a sensationalized relationship and it because they were by it may be kinda put it more mainstream or out in the open. Maybe there's a possibility of that. I think it put it out into the mainstream to be ridiculed to be riddick really.

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I thought it was sort of put on a pedestal. I feel like once. They came out as a couple of came out and said this is. This is my situation too and i'm proud of it and i also think it was made fun of a lot to Anymore being the cougar cub. You here so. I think it depends on what you know who you talk to or what media listened to but that's always been the relationship that's talked about and i personally don't like to be compared to their relationship in a way I just. I don't know why i think it's probably because they broke up with younger mila kunis. The word cougar. Can't remember when demi moore and ashton kutcher were together. I can't remember. I her cougar. Before them or they were the cause of it but they're always like. Was this like running joke of like. Oh the cougars. When we i really honestly think it started with american pie and stiff mom. Yes yes you're right. That's where it started. But i guess like that term. Like what do you think about that term. I hate it absolutely hate it. It's very it's a predatory term. You certainly don't use that when it comes to older man younger woman or at any age difference of you. Don't use those kind of terms right but when it comes to an older woman at a younger man specifically it is a given the just really for me honestly. It's it's ridiculous. Said a terms doesn't take into account that the stays actually real relationships. That don't have this cougar cub kind of dynamic to it. Well it also shows a certain level of judgment because you in a relationship. You never call yourself the cougar. But it's people looking at your relationship labeling as so so there's this level of judgment that you had no control over and there's a certain amount of a framing it in a box. You're in cougar. Come and because of that. You'll always be senior relationship as a cougar cub relationship. Now you expand that box and not even have the kuker cab you know being put in that box. Suddenly you see something as something different as not a cougar. Cup relationship but as a relationship a meaningful relief just today dot com piece. They like featured all these younger men that were dating older women in it actually was very positive what they put out there like the reasons why younger men preferred to defeat older women like some of the ones that they said were that they were great partners. 'cause herself assured confidant sharp conversationalist not just focused on starting a family. There is others said that like boosted their own confidence and self esteem and then others said like older women have more life. Experience emotional stability grounding in are more like honest with differing opinions. Well thank you very much seriously. I agree also if the factual private that was left out absolutely and i guess with my particular experience is you know having been in a relationship with a younger man it did not go well and then also with my current relationship which is a you know. It's it's a thing that's happening right now. And i'm hoping that you know we continue to be together. You know anyone would hope that. They would continue being with their relationship no matter if it's an age gap relationship or whoever right anybody but i'm really really of course i'm really really happy to see and hear that younger men. Are you know having such a positive. You know having positive feedback about their preferences for dating older women. So let's get into that here about your previous experience so not this current relationship. Because you said it didn't end well right but the you learned a lot from it but it it ended in a way where you were not like opposed to dating another younger man so it must have gone well enough for you so tell us about your experience with him. My experience was it was pretty positive at first in the sense that of course you have. This amazing physical chemistry. You can't deny that that becomes the hook is having great sex and also he wasn't old soul. And i am a young soul and we just really got along and became friends and then he introduced me to his family because his family wanted to know who was he going out with.

00:35:02 - 00:40:32

And when he had said that. I'm in my forties that she's in her forties. The family was okay except for mom. Mom with his mom was not okay with that. Not all moms are going to be like this. Why but she was the kind of mom that had her. She had opinions about every aspect of his life. She had control really his life and wanted to know where he was. All the time you know helps pick out his clothes. Help tim bakar all those kind of things. Even later on helped him pick out the home that he would end up buying n even determine how far he should be living from her so that was kind of the the situation in terms of his relationship with his mom and it really became a real obstacle for my relationship. So do you think the stuff you described about his mother like how did that relate you being in your forties like that just sounds like general. Sounds like any any ma. Highly mother-in-law mother like it doesn't sound that crazy to me. Well i think it had a lot to do with kids show grandchildren. And she couldn't fathom that someone in her forties Would be able to have children with her son in his twenties. And i think that was a real roadblock. She made a comment once. When i had just jokingly said that oh i was going to teach her son How to be more of a gentleman something. It was something that i had said. We're playing around me and my boyfriend. We're playing around. And that's just what i said. In all of a sudden she got very upset instead. No i'm his mom. I'm the teacher so it was almost like she was in competition. Like maybe someone younger she would have seen as like not at her level in a way right. There's there's threat. I felt like there was a weird power dynamics. Suddenly i was introduced into our relationship was more to do with his mom and me. Yeah it was it was. It was interesting and did he see this. He saw it. I saw it and he was torn was torn by it. Has this come up again with your new boyfriend. That's the thing about our relationship right now. Both of us are taking very slow. And i know it's because both of us aren't ready to face the potential of having that kind of negative feedback from the having that negative the opinions. It's very it can be very impressive to me. i wish i didn't have that stigma. I wish that i wasn't afraid to say to my friends and family Even though i know that they accept it. But i don't know if they'll if his family or his friends accepted and we're not even ready to fully be out about our relationship because of the stigma and right now in a way. I wish that we could introduce each other to each other's families to each other's friends but at the same time the positive not opening upper relationship to you know meeting each other's families in france is that we can continue strengthening our relationship between each other without having that noise right so i'm really curious about this children piece because like this definitely i mean i have friends that are have similar age gaps. That they're dating people too so it's not just you but i'm just curious like has the children conversation. Come up with any of your partners that were younger. And like is that something you're looking for in life and then where are they at this stage of their lives. Show my former boyfriend in my current boyfriend. First thing that we ever talked about was. Do you want kids. I don't want kids and that's a choice. I made a long time ago. Even in the marriage that i was in. We didn't want kids. It's it wasn't anything that i think is a bad thing. There are pluses and minuses to having children. So and it's something that. I decided on a long time ago so nothing to do with age at all. It was just pure vision absolutely absolutely when you tell them this. Like what are their reactions. Because i could see someone younger not being there yet right and then like maybe when they get to a certain age they start to think about that like have you had those conversations we have had those conversations so for my current boyfriend yes we have had those conversations and i think it really does depend on what the upbringing was to whether or not the guy has had or the partner has had come from a family with divorces has come from any kind of family where there weren't really positive role models for long term relationships and in his case that was not the case he didn't have this positive role models for long term relationships and for the outcome of the children so for example in his case he came from.

00:40:32 - 00:45:02

You know he's the product of divorce and then when his parents both remarried they also ended up divorcing their partners But they also ended up having children so his siblings. Now have to go through the aftermath. You know contentious divorces contentious relationships but basically. He's okay with not having children. He's okay with not having children. He is absolutely okay with not having children definitely has not been an issue for us. You know if that's like part of the reason why he has h hire because like back till like what that today Feature was saying is that a lot of people. Don't want the pressure of like being with someone that's pressuring them for children. Have you guys talked about that at all. I don't know but i do know. He's dated in his in his twenties and he did data woman in her forties. But it was. It was more like a sexual relationship. It wasn't actually like a a full blown. Relationship with the whole dynamic is so interesting because men in their twenties will say. I don't want to date someone in their twenties. Who all they want us marriage and kids. I want to have fun. And then if they're dating an older woman than that question pops up a lot sooner because then it becomes like. Is this going to be my future. Are we going to have kids etc. So the dynamic changes they're still the same person same age range but they're dynamic changes based on age they're dating in and i really want to point out that it's difficult to talk about generalities to do say young man think this so i think the the complexity of my situation is. I don't wanna talk in generalities like that. Because i really truly cannot say that. That's how young men think that that's how the guy that i'm with. No i appreciate that. I think that's a good call out to we. Can't generalize the pattern that we see is that these conversations are presented in a different way based on which age range you are in so obviously you to had this conversation earlier on to basically like. There's no fear around it and i think a lot of times with dating. There's a lot of fear around these conversations at the beginning. You don't wanna scare someone off With you to a seems like was brought up pretty early and you know something that you had to bring up. And i will say this for me. Personally i've always been a direct communicator. I do find that the younger man that i have dated in the past straight up. They've always said that the first thing that they really were attracted to not only do. I look younger than my age. Which is nice. But i am very direct and that is a breath of fresh air for a lot of younger men Don't play games. That i hear from the man i've dated has also been a big plus being able to lay things out on the On the table like right off the bat and And me just putting it out there. Hey just so you know. I don't want kids. I don't even know if i want to be married again. I'm one of those people. Let's let's see where this goes in. Did you do that with the other guy to with a overbearing mother and was a similar conversation or was it very different. He was very adamant that he didn't want kids. Okay well that's a conversation to have with his mom absolutely. I mean i'm like. I'm in my mid thirties and almost late thirties. And i think about that too. Because i feel like sometimes i'll match with men that don't want children because we have heard from a lot of men that in their thirties. They wanna date people that are under thirty five so they can have children. So i wonder if i'm -tracting men that are either more impartial to having kids. Don't want to have kids because of my age. And i'm just wondering if there is some correlation that caused people like younger men that no. They don't want kids to be open on their age brackets to begin with. Why would say all of the above honestly say all of the above. I do think that is a factor. I never actually really about that. Because i also think that there's the risk the risk but there's also a lot of older women in their forties or even you know upper thirties.

00:45:02 - 00:50:11

Who are having kids later on in life. So that's not necessarily. The kids is not necessarily related to the age thing. I think there is a higher chance that a woman who is older may not want kids or may already have kids too. So i totally agree that i don't want to do this to hear. I think that like you can't have kids. Pass thirty five hundred percent. Thank you can. I've seen that happen many times. But what i have observed from a lot of men that they have the old stereotypes in their minds not necessarily like new ways of medicine and just like everything. That's possible stays day in age. So i do wonder if there's like some subliminal like thing like based on if i want kids i'll adjust my age range accordingly could be. I mean it's got to be. Yeah i agree. I think it may not be purposeful but i think it's something that people probably take into account. When they're doing their their age filtering for shore age ages. Just such a weird thing right now. I mean i also wanna kinda like touch. Upon with any relationships. there are challenges but particularly for yours. What are some of the challenges you faced that you think are attributed to age so. I'll give some examples. I've dated younger men before. And i think a one big problem that always came up was they felt like they hadn't seen the world yet and i felt like i had lived a life to settle down so there was always this like waiting for the other shoe to drop where one day. They will pack up their bags. And take a tour around europe. Or whatever go backpacking for months. And i felt like i had already done that but when i dated older men i felt kind like what you're saying earlier lindsay so they were so set in their ways that i could not see myself molding a life with them because they were so stubborn about the way they do life. So those that like the to age-specific personally for me so i wanna just. I was thinking a lot about age in for me. There's three different types of ages. There's your chronological age. How many years. How much time have you spent living Physically of course biological age. How are you aging. There are people in their twenties people in their teens. That have abused their body. And there are people in their nineties in their sixties who've really taking care of their bodies and so you could say that biologically they are younger. Their heart is stronger than maybe a teenager etc etc and. Then you have your experiential age. What is the quality and the quantity of experiences that you have had in your life. Regardless of the years. I will say that as someone in my forties. I very much sheltered myself. During my twenties to my thirties my world was very small. It wasn't until my forties that really broke out and just really established my own independence especially after my divorce and With my current relationship. He has had a wealth of experiences. That i've not had. He has traveled. He did have that college experience he so he hasn't been married yet. That is something that i have had whether or not that is a minus for him. I know but so. I do look at age in that regard so to answer. Your question in terms of the issues for me has a lot to do with. To what extent will your family and friends except that you are in a relationship together that this is not just a cougar. Cub sexual scenario. That is actually two people who do love and care for each other and they have feelings. And they're developing something together so the acceptance of that and then also my own fears my own personal fears of what any person thinks of the idea of getting older and and especially for me as an older woman being with a younger man. I thought a lot about well. What if health problems come into play right. And i think we'll what if health problems for him. Come into play Anybody of any age could have health problems. Yeah that's not age specific instantly. Think about well. What when she gets older. What is she gonna look like. Where is she going to be the same thing that you could save him. You know the idea of well you know what if she dies before you instantly think well. You're going to outlive her right. You're going to outlive her because she's going to die. I there's always that assumption. And so i think to myself in. This is a kind of a joke. That i that i think about that. I talked to him about. I said okay. Let's let's just hypothetically hope this doesn't happen. Hypothetically i die at age fifty and he continues. But when he's aged fifty one he will have the memory of me being fifty and if he continues to be safe five i will always be fifty and has mine there.

00:50:11 - 00:55:02

You go there. You go than the others. That i hope this never happens either but say he dies at age thirty and i hope that never happens then. I will have outlived him in an interesting way of thinking about it. I'm not saying. I want any of this to happen. Of course but i do think about age you know it is. It's interestingly arbitrary. In a way. I think what you said is so interesting about like life stages. That's how i view it more as like are we in the same life stage. And i'm curious. That point is interesting that you made that you kind of felt like you didn't necessarily experience life in your twenty s and now your experience get similar to what you a. You're say that you had the disconnect. So i think probably a lot of it depends on the individual people right and whether looking for sure. Yeah like i guess like outside of that. What else has drawn you. d Is because you feel like you're more in tune in life stages are other reasons as a really great question. I'm going to have to think about that for just a second. Well i will say this younger men to look better. I superficially when it gets down to it. Younger men do look better. But that's from my point of view there are of course younger women or women my age you think older men look better But in from right now younger men to look better to me and beyond younger men looking great i would assume and i'm just making an assumption here lindsay. Is that that last relationship with the. The mom who was not approving must have been a little bit traumatizing right because it seemed like you had a pretty solid relationship and she came in and kind of fiddle around there so but still it didn't deter you from dating another younger man so beyond the superficial they do look better. What are the other qualities that you made. You made you keep going right. And i'm really glad that i forgot to say that. There is a dot dot with one person right. I mean yeah right right but the dot dot dot here is. I have found that the younger man that i've chosen Happen very respectful of my opinions of they. Listen which is you know. I'm having a bad day are listening. They actually give me advice when i ask for it. It's almost like they step up to me. And they're they stepping up and whether or not it is that it's because i'm older that they do that but i appreciate that and i found that the younger men that i have dated especially the one that i'm dating right now. They show up for me. And that's very interesting because i know that there's always that sort of the complaint amongst women really are not even just women but anybody of whether or not someone shows up for you in your life emotionally intellectually just really being there for you and so i just found that Younger men that. I've dated that. I've chosen to date have done that for me. Were as mandated in my age bracket haven't necessarily been there for me and it could just be because they are who they are. Maybe it could be that. There's a reason why they were divorced. There's a reason why they were still single in there. Four days he stay didn't develop those patterns of showing up for women short showing up for you know their partners. That's super interesting. Is i feel like there's always. There's this generalization which obviously is not true given this to that like younger men aren't serious like they just wanna play the wheel. They just wanna hug up. You're not gonna have a serious relationship with a younger man so date older. That's like the messaging. That's out there so yeah like it. Sounds like that's basically anything by your experience. Yes definitely definitely the way you speak about. Your relationships is different than the way most people speak about the relationships. You say you use the word. I chose the men i chose. It puts the power in your hands and a shows a you are in control of your love life and i think a lot of times when we experienced these casual non serious relationships because we're also putting out that vibe.

00:55:02 - 01:00:00

Yeah it's that. I it might control. I'm just seeing if you wanna hang out. I'm just seeing if if this could go somewhere. But i think the way you you present yourself lindsay is that it almost. It sounds like you were just having this conversation. Getting to know each other now. You have high standards. I feel like. I want to live up to your high standards. Just by the way you speak about yourself. And i think that's the ultimate difference or i guess the the one thing that really stands out and has nothing to do with age but the age part probably got you here to get this confidence and the sort this feeling of empowerment and you and taking control of your life very much so and also having a very strong feelings role models in my life. I mean my mom and my grandmother. You can go back many generations. I've just always had very vocal Strong women and very much adopted that. But then also you're right. I remember being a person that was super shy. Who wouldn't talk much in having The consequences of being not vocal enough not stating what my needs. Are you know. I was in a marriage for close to ten years and i wasn't as vocal as i should have been and so now i've learned you know what you need to put your cards on the table. Lay it out. There sayer truth and raven in there. So you're not wasting each other's time at all. Do you think there's anything to do with age just because again. These are two isolated things. But i'm thinking of one of our friend that you and i have in. Historically she cut a never stood her ground but with this younger man. I feel like she's been kind of able to do the same so i don't know if there is some sort of dynamic that's playing in that you know like i i don't know a curious to hear your take on that like if you think there isn't each dynamic or you think it's just this would have also been the way you would act if you met someone that was older. Yeah i think julia. I think i know exactly. You're talking about out. Her previous relationships wanted to be chosen. She was like hello. choose me. Yeah but now in this relationship where the man is much younger. She feels like she can. She chose him to be in her life. That's a very good observation. And i would say yeah. Yeah i think. I think in terms of that would be a positive a positive aspect of of the age gap especially for a woman who da- absolutely i think that is very empowering i think the other observation we can really bring up now is that there really is a lot of stigma around these big age gap relationships that i never really realized because nobody really talks about them but you know like with people who are dating in the same age their main issue in the beginning of a relationship is to make sure that their relationship is a thing they they wanna make sure that that's going in the right direction but was sounds like with your previous experiences. Some of my friends experiences dating someone of a large age gap is that you spend a lot of your time. Validating your relationship externally slotted all these like noises and all the the societal factors so you you may have a solid relationship but you're almost like it's youtube against the world in some ways very much. So that's how i feel about it and i have to say that it definitely in a way strengthens your relationship because you lean on each other you communicate about these things turn to each other when you remove those moments of doubt win my self esteem just because of you know my worries and fears and everything just make me feel horrible and so it's strengthened my relationship to turn to each other another area. I'm curious about because this is the one other thing. That you like the generalization that younger men are more immature. You might not be like on the same wave. Lii in the immaturity comes out. Have you ever felt that way. You felt like this is my peer. This is my equal in my current relationship. I don't feel that that he's immature. I feel sometimes that. I'm can be immature. We can habit this. We can have immature. Behaviors can venture behaviors so yes. He's had immature behaviors in the sense that you know he. doesn't always clean up after himself. Granted you can have that course and somebody who is of the same age. I mean. that's my dad. Exactly it just in my current relationship. I've not it. That's not really been a big issue. I have dated men's where that has been a huge issue where it's like grow the f. up you know but or younger younger men. Young older o'malley both.

01:00:00 - 01:05:03

Yeah basically what. I'm gathering that this is not an issue. It's very set to the individual. And it's a generalization again. That may or may not be accurate based on who the person is. Yes and i guess in a way our our conversation. It's really more about relationships. But i understand that. Yes it's it's almost like we're talking about relationships and one of the qualities of the relationship is an age gap. That's one of the characteristics. South at that of the relationship is is. It's an age gap relationship. I mean i think that's like a great psych way to some takeaways. Because what i'm gathering from all this is there are a lot of stick out there. Stigmas that you have to fight on a daily basis these even these like generalizations. We've brought up. There's a reason why they're out there. And that's a stigma right. That like people are kind of stereotyping. Generalizing based on behavior and i think ultimately what i'm gathering from all of this is that like just like any other relationship things are going to just be individual. Everything is based on the individuals in the relationship. And like you just said this is just one factor of the relationship and it's not necessarily going to define the relationship exactly exactly you know. I thought a lot about wasn't even too long ago. That interrelation interracial relationships were huge stigma and in some parts of you know the country. Even it's still monetize still. And i do like in h gap relationships up there in terms of the stigma. You know people kind of recoiling going. Ooh there's something wrong with that. I don't know what it is. That i don't like it. That's the feeling that. I get in terms of the stigma and honestly. I can't say that you know. That is an element also to our relationship that we aren't of the same race as either. But you know so. The stigma is very. I just wish that. That wasn't a factor that i even had to worry about. Like you said. Julie there's enough to worry about in general relationships general stuff that we all worry about to to actually think if maybe my age is a factor i think that brings me to my second takeaway is like i think there's always been this thought and i've been guilty of this too late or more fair irrational fairly. If i date someone younger in today we don't want the same thing. Will they wake up one day and realized they want like a family. They want all of this and i think really what. I'm taking away from this conversation and other friends experiences to is that every relationship is subject to that happening. People can wake up any day in say that they want different things. And if it's a strong relationship you'll find ways to you know like make it work together like my friends that i mentioned off this to like the woman at. I had no desire to have children. Now that they're together they do want to have kids and it's something that they're like working through and i think it's like ultimately sometimes we don't know what we want until we're with a certain person to and i think like just because there's an age stigma with children at all that like that can happen in any relationship even if there is no age gap truly and anna does get down to communication and just being really really honest with each other and if you start to feel something different you know like a. We'll maybe i do want kids. I don't think it really does suddenly happen. I think it's something where maybe you notice something one day like. Oh i did see this child the other day i realize like oh really you know that's really cool at that. You know that kid was trick or treating with their parents. And i wish i kinda something like that. We'll talk to your partner. Bout it right. You know because if you don't talk to your partner about it. And i talked to these i talk with him about these things that all of a sudden it will be out of the blue something like. Oh my gosh. I didn't know that she really wanted to have kids. Maybe maybe she doesn't really wanna have kids. Maybe she just wants to have that kind of nurturing type of relationship. I think it's like we can't be afraid to get into relationships based on these generalizations stereotypes. I think if we're always looking for reasons to say no to someone you're never gonna get into relationships and then have the opportunity to work through things together exactly and i was thinking to myself today breaking up over age difference it should. You should never break up over age. Difference break up because there was a lack of trust that you were betrayed in some way. But don't break up because of the age difference. And i also think i also truly believe don't break-up because your family your friends say that you should break up the cousins your age difference right right.

01:05:03 - 01:10:01

It's not a. It's not a reason to end a relationship. I think my major takeaway from this conversation and it's an observation is that what is so great about dating someone who is not in your age bracket or who's not from the same cultural breakout background. I like that you equated the to. They're not the same race. Is that you come in with perked years. You're like. I'm here to learn because i'm guessing that we have a lot of differences that i wanna learn more about but when we are dating people who are similar to us same age same race etc. We come in complacent as we assume. There's a lot of common ground to start with so you don't come in with perked ears. You don't come in with this mindset of learning and curiosity because you just assume that you have all this stuff in common so will we can learn from all of these sort of relationships where people come in with perceived differences. Is that just come in with the with mindset of i want to learn and i'm so curious about this person and whatever differences that we may have. I just need to learn more about that. I've had friends tell me. I can't date someone really young. Because what have they don't know who new kids on the block is at. I used to think the same thing i'm like. I know that sounds so dumb. But it's like oh what did we don't have the same experiences growing up but that is a great opportunity to tell someone about your experience growing up. Who new kids on the block was why you love them. Say it becomes interested. I it becomes love that you said that to me. I feel that my relationship with my that. My younger honey is exciting. I mean it's not. It's it's beyond the holes next thing i mean. It's just exciting because we are so excited about will. Hey what is your generation do nowadays or what is what was it like in my generation but the funny thing is we were just. We like watching movies together. He watched so many movies from like the eighties. And even the seventies that. I've never even think he just introduced me to bill. And ted's excellent adventure and now we're going to go onto wayne's world and all the animal house i had never been watched these newbies so funny how he's brought broadening my world you know and yeah i mean well i could tell him. Oh yeah i remember what like a rotary phone. Right and cassettes tape. You know little things like that but we find them hilarious. Yeah yeah gal. Larry is so. I'm so happy that that Absolutely the the age gap relationships add another layer of excitements of nature. Sting things to learn about each other. So i absolutely loved that said that is i also think this is a generalization of sure. There's men of all different ages. But i do think because of the feminist movement because of the new ways of thinking some younger men are more opt to treat women as equals. And you know like have certain different different dynamics than older men and again. Don't want to generalize. That's not all people but some of it's just a byproduct our culture right like back in the day. When howard stern was like the go-to that's gonna like imprint. Men's minds where today the stuff that was set on. That would be like totally besotted mistake. And like you know no one would ever say that. So it's going to shape how they show up absolutely and you know i will say this. I appreciate the women. The mothers who raised their sons right and and those happened to be in the men that i choose. Their mothers raised him right And the sense that you know. They're empowered women they are women who were part of the feminist movement who i mean i do appreciate it. I appreciate that you know these women these women. The mothers taught their sons how they should treat women How they should talk with them in all of that so absolutely. I think that the the feminist movement did definitely to a favor a favor to men younger man and also you know for older women older wiser women. You hear that. Like bad wada. Or you date people that resemble your parents select maybe there's something some sort of draw of like the empowered woman if they were being raised by empowered women. Right there you go younger. Women aren't empowered. Yes they are to absolutely yeah. Here's the confidence that comes with age. There is yeah. I think there is.

01:10:01 - 01:15:01

I definitely think there's more open to with age for but but also it's it's i don't want to say that either because i also think there's a closed minded as it goes both ways it really does. That's true fair enough it just so it goes back to your experience age that you are talking about someone like you you've been married and you know what that's like and so you've decided that maybe you don't wanna get married again. You've decided you don't wanna have kids liberating to make these very concrete decisions and not have that beat dependent on a man that you're dating. That's where the confidence really comes from. You've made these life decisions for some other people who may not have made these decisions yet. They're waiting for their partner to help them. Make these decisions or searching for someone who who would be on board to make these decisions with them. So i think it's very liberating to be at a place where you are. You're like i've been there been there done that. Don't need it again. I'm just looking to have fun and have a have a solid relationship. You know thinking to myself in my lifetime. I want to be i want to have love. I wanna be loved. And i want to the one and i was very fortunate that in my marriage that i had it there was love. It's just physical attraction actually wasn't really ever really bear and that does count for something. He really loved me. And i really loved him and now i'm in a relationship with a younger man and we do love each other and that's all i think anybody really wants is to be up yet. I've just always thought to myself that you never know when you're gonna go right. Nobody does no one knows when there were in the green ago. So i'm am going to do anything. I can to make sure that the relationships. I have in my life and get. I'm i'm gonna fight for them and i am very confident and i think that does come with the role is added my life and the wisdom. I've accumulated yes over the years to realize that i don't have time. Nobody has time to cave in to oppressive opinions and the stigma Of what other people think about my relationship. I wonder if that is part of why. This dynamic works though because there is something i think. The demise of relationships is when there's so much pressure for the future and when you can just be in the present and i do think realistically like men in their twenties are probably a little more president or they're not feeling like that pressure from the partner and it sounds like like i mean speaking my own experience. I know i'm much more confident than like just down to like really like you were just saying like fine that love in not have this other stuff like when when kids in marriage isn't the be all and end all it does. Remove some of that pressure dan. How's you to just connect with someone definitely absolutely. I agree with that. This is also why we encourage people to up their filters with apps it. Sometimes i think like just because you're in the same age bracket it's a very arbitrary way of saying your match in this age bracket but doesn't really make sense to me so if you open it up even if you don't want to go like the full eighteen hundred ninety or whatever at least open it up like with lindsay dead just ten ten down ten up or whatever and see who else is out there. I think opening up your filters is really step number. One to opening up your mind absolutely. Open up your shelters and really layer cards on table. Be really honest. About what both if you want and then develop the relationship develop it between you two without the influence of others. Unless they're supportive of your relationship right love it okay. Well that's a great note to wrap this up on. Thank you so much lindsay for sharing your story and your wisdom and if you love this episode. You've you loved our topic here. Give us a five star review in apple. Podcasts we love that regardless of your age race gender etc. All of the reviews means so much to us. Just a simple five stars. Were a little quick comment. Go along way for us Right if we're going to wrap this up. Stay along the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic. Podcast network more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle asked dateable podcasts.

01:15:01 - 01:16:43

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