S12E2: How to Not Die Alone w/Logan Ury

00:00:01 - 00:05:01

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. We've just entered into our twelfth season digging into the y. Y. wise of people's behavior when it comes to modern dating modern romance modern s ex. Modern everything as well as your own frigging behavior. Why do you do the things that you do. Why do you. That's a million dollar question. We have a behavioral scientists here with us. Today logan jury. Who's going to explain exactly why we do the things we do. Why we're looking for things that are not what you actually need in a long term partner. I think that's the theme of the episode. In addition to that we learned a little bit about logan's own life and some of the recent events have completely shifted her relationship and her New marriage i guess. Maybe she's she hasn't been married that long but it's a again. It's another great interview with her. We've had her on the show before she is a fan favorite and her book adjust released. And it's already topping the charts on amazon and a bunch of other leading. so congratulations. logan you gotta listen to this episode because she just adds even more knowledge than the last time she was on. Yeah we're so excited. That i while someone in the dateable fan published. An amazing book is a huge accomplishment. And i fake. Logan like we've known her now. For how long like two years. Yeah years you actually call it out of this episode that she is now initiative as dateable regular because between a couple episodes now and we did a live show in san francisco and out. Four shit. Hit the fan with coach. She was kind of like our opener that and she also interviewed us which was super fund and then she was on our recent sounding board events. So she's been with us a beds and we're super excited to people love love. Love this stuff. So we're excited to bring new knowledge In this episode. It's a great follow up to connor beaten. You know you like it. Open with connor and logan. I don't know what what's a better way to kick off the season. Actually i do know a better way to kick off season. Oh yes our feature in the new york times what the fuck is google. Alerts that up for us. And that morning i woke up on sunday. It was actually on valentine's day. I woke up. And i got this google alert and usually it's about like data science 'cause dateable glue alert usually like published paper in. I don't know in some magazine that i've never heard of. But this was in the new york times and i screamed. I woke up so early that take. I don't know why was just like i feel like i need to wake up early. You did because. I woke up to like a Tallow text messages advantages. And i was like oh i. Can you post the serbia. Like i've already posted in the group. The instagram like anywhere that you basically pick But it was. It was amazing. I'm so glad that you saw that. Have the alert like just like the new york times. There's first of all like even thinks that they're still an actual newspaper out. I thought that was amazing. We had one of our past guests. Amanda she texted us. It was like here's like the actual photo of the newspaper. I'm gonna put all of this because people need to see the visual representation of where we're talking about but if you happen to get a copy of the new york times we were in the at home. Section article called dating podcast. Who make you feel better about your love life and it has our picture seeing our photo under new york times like even the digital but just even a paper so about the analogue of a newspaper. It's funny i was actually walking to safeway. I was talking to my brother on the phone about it and he is a new york times subscribers so he was cutting it out he was putting it in a file suddenly preserve that he was gonna mail it out to us that he's like you know you could just buy a copy available all day and i'm like oh that's a good idea so i was like walking to safe way to pick up a cake for chinese. New year's went to a friend's like outdoor. And i'm like. Oh actually going. But i popped into this quarter store other way and there was actually this really hot guy. That was there too. And i'm like hey do you guys sell newspapers. Guys like literally both laughed at me. I'm like i guess. They stopped at corner shops and bodega few years ago.

00:05:01 - 00:10:00

I went into my corner. Bodega and the guy was like i haven't had a newspaper in here in two years. Do just stop giving us newspapers. And he he told me to try seven eleven so venue bodies looking for actual newspapers how timely go to seven eleven or safeway. I guess that's where you found your safeway. Safeway did not have chinese new year's cakes this year. I got this like beautiful won their last year. That's why i was thinking about it. I totally like fogged on. The sense of there was valentine's day on sunday. So i showed up at safeway literally like every single cake was valentine's day so i ended up getting with like red roses. It just like the guy right like happy. The chinese year but he was id's so he wrote it and actually look that that was a makeshift chinese. That sounds like one of those things. Like you get drunk and get a tattoo of chinese characters on your arm and the next morning you wake up and you're like what this is saying in your friends like his burchett or some them. That's what my friends were joking like. He could've literally wrote anything like yes looks fantastic. He also had no idea what i was asking for it. I like. I think he thought i was like trying to say like happy birthday or something to someone he's like. What is this dumb white girl. Like asking me right this but that he was like they ended up pulling over stuff. That was more like english speaking that she was like. Oh do you actually want it. Written in chinese and i'm like yeah so socially pulled the guy back over it was like a production but got the new york times. Got the cake so as a win shack. Check a shot. Ninety take a picture of that cake. I would love to see what his chinese letter. It's gone actually. I think i might. I might have taken a photo also. I hope you have a photo of it are chinese. New year's was a little bit different. We did not have cake but my mom went to the local fish market and got fresh muni. No we watch a bunch of youtube videos to see how he can crack it. I had no idea those things like there. Look there seems to be like a whole middle that looks like an eyeball and you put two spoons through the whole and then you crack it open. It is disgusting and inside. there's maybe like five or six pieces. that's it everything else is. Just gosh. it's disgusting. I'm like rather out good. I'll know you'll never going to eat my own crack my own uni. I'm gonna get at a restaurant when it's up. Beautifully played it. There's some things that have like. I've tried to recreate cupcake. And i'm like this needs to be safe for a restaurant. Daddy experience nope not doing that again. But it was fun to crack through an eyeball with all the spikes. I was out for dinner with some friends of a couple pass. Dateable to were there in libya the group but one of our. What of by bail fred's he's like the best. pr rapid. I told him we should hire him any time. Like someone new is in the crowd is like this is my celebrity friend more. The new york times article came out so only this was a day after ten times. I'm like kind of just have like follow. your route. San francisco introduced me to everyone this way because it's like the best way for d listeners to be able to check it out so we're just so not good as south pro-moscow episodes we've talked about this too. We always have other people promoting us for us which is great but we to learn how to do that ourselves to like this. new york. Times feature is a huge accomplishment. I'm yeah take a moment to say. I don't think that. I don't like to say we're deserving cause i don't think anybody's deserving of anything but we worked damn hard and i'm like super proud of us because this was not something we expected. We do not ask for go out and reach to the reach out to the writer for it. Came out of the blue and of such a nice surprise. And i'm so fucking proud of us. It's our community like phoebe. Who is the writer. It was actually in our facebook group. And while we're calling you out we just wanted to say thank you. Phoebe phoebe latte. Who is the writer. I was actually just so grateful for the way that phoebe wrote about us too. Because a lot of times people will just copy and paste are. You don't like our description which is fine. You know we're not going to complain. Ever but i love. How like thoughtful. This one was and she said something at the end that i think needs to actually be in our description and like the way we describe this podcast that were essentially on a mission that makes everyone feel deserving and dateable. We really truly believe that all of you that listen are dateable in being dateable again does not relate your relationship status so even if you are feeling alone in single late does not mean that you're not dateable. There's nothing wrong with you per se. Yeah that lime made me cry because it resonated with our values that we haven't really into words and that's why we do what we do.

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This community really drives that purpose for us and it just gives us ammunition to keep going with this with these values that we're living by so thank you again to the community for helping manifest this. This is just a huge accomplishment for us. And i think it's just gonna kick off even more grand things coming for all of us in this new year including that most dateable competition. And oh my god. I cannot wait first of all. Like i. Just sorta okay so you add. I split out a lot of the efforts that go into dateable. Because there's a lotta stuff. That goes up behind the scenes. But i just want to commend you because i feel like you have done an amazing job just being like the front runner organizer of this event it also i love just like how alive you get when it comes to play. These events like can truly love head like cheese dislike loving every minute of it like the setup in the rehearsals at all that so. I think it's like you definitely very much shine with these types of events. Oh thank you so much. Julie you know what i love about these things like we get to know a little bit of someone a little bit of something new about someone in our community and we get to see these different sides of them including the talent competition the qna. It's just fun getting to know people on a different level and everyone has expressed that. They're feeling uncomfortable. Which i love. I get the has upper bird. That's when we grow. That's when we change in all six contestants are like. I'm just a little bit uncomfortable with what i'm doing and putting myself out there but fucking good for you right all of them. I'm so proud of all six of them. Yeah i am too. I cannot wait to see this. I think it's going to be self on like these types of competitions are really fun. there's been one in san francisco for years that's happened. I mean not the share. Obviously with kobe they toys should amita virtual by the way but whatever thunder yet stealing the thunder this year. But i think these events like they're meant to be silly goofy like obviously it's not like everyone dateable even if you did not get selected to be in this but it's just really fun and it's really meant to be light hearted and come out in support your fellow community members. Hopefully all of you can join. This isn't event that's open to the public like it is one of our sounding board events but usually it's required to be a member but this one were letting anyone join so get your tickets at dateable podcast dot com slash events and. I love the judges that were secured to we talk about them for a second because this is going to make this event even more fun. Well you know that my girl crashed may leave. My girl is on the panel. She is a renowned journalist. And also someone. I want to be when i grow up. Hopefully even half as awesome as she as she was on our season finale for season. Eleven on can you have it all and she will be one of the judges. Yep and then we also have measham by ryke who is a whatever crowd favorites if anyone. That remembers the art of virtual sex. This was in season ten and he had a very seductive voice it. We're super excited to hear that as he critiques. The different contestants and our third and final judge is all about schema. Guys remember scheme as i need to stop singing. If you guys tell me as i thought singing in the reviews i will know. Keep singing singing. Get ready for the most of all. I want to hear you introduced the the judges in the sake voice. Come of me. I normally don't do that. The doctor abigail love. She going to be the therapy at representative for the judges panel asking questions. Secolo bit deeper to to help you. Self reflect and for us to uncover true colors. I really feel like this is the boasts like perfect panel ever on the them have such different perspectives. What's going to be really interesting to see what happens for anyone who's coming new to our podcast. You're like what the hell is the most notable competition think of it as a coed pageant. But that's more exciting than your traditional pageant. It's all virtual. We have three different competitions within that night. The first one is going to be most stable notable showcase you'll learn more about that epa show second stage is going to be talent and third. Qna with the judges where the contestants have not seen or heard the questions of the judges an ask and then at the end we crown one person as most dateable twenty twenty. One lovett's lose so yeah quick. Maybe a couple of quick and outfits before we get to have because there's been so much interesting we obviously want to get to the good stuff with logan. Just a couple quick announcements. Were doing something new that every month. We're going to kind of do a community member of the month someone that exhibits the true qualities of what it means to be debatable.

00:15:01 - 00:20:00

Whether that's you committing to your own self growth and seeing that through like the types of posts. He put up in the community or the questions. You're asking at happy hours or sounding board events all of that and then also supporting others like in the community and like not to saying like. Oh he sucks or she sat but like really like digging in and like helping people get to what's going on for them and offering a diverse perspective that kind of left people be like What about this way so our first person that we decided to choose a little drum roll. I feel like you're going to bed. So the drum roll winner was sonja penetre sonia and yes so honestly i. She was like a clear winner by bide. I just feel like. I saw her like convent about things that you learn in the scheme as workshop from the sounding i'm like wow she's really moving stuff and it was changing how she like evaluated things so yeah just overall she also posted about masturbating our favorite turbine basically doing solo dates and she did like a wine tasting trip to cinema in really inspired a ton of people and was like you know what it's not weird like people think it's gonna be weird but no one looked at me weird and then when they did. I started conversation with them. And like all was forgotten that i was on my own. And you know. I obviously wanna partner. But i'm not gonna just sit around and not have fun while i don't have the best attitude. I love their sonia. An all of all of our members that were going to profile our pioneers. I'm gonna call them dating pioneers because we're throwing the rules out the window. Were saying no to the old traditions and creating your new traditions in new norms. Like he cares in the past. This was not okay or people will look at you funny or judge you for this. It doesn't matter anymore. it's your life. And these are the members who are pioneering their own dating ways and their own life and good for them and we can't wait to a feature even more of our members are in who are paving their own path. It's so funny because the last episode with loaded we had this whole phrase like date like assigned. Who's trying to figure stuff out. And you and i were actually talking to a member of the sounding board the other day this concept came up date like a podcast and i think there's right. They both work in different ways but date like a podcast or is ask a lot of questions. Don't make assumptions curious. Like all of that so could bring your scientists. Had and your podcast. Her hat in. That's a great way to become the community member of the month. It's like whoa wait julian. Usa will would say to you at this situation. That was a good segue to our birch contest. Because we courage are that said We'll give a shutout sakib. We courage to keep to submit that to the merge contest. We did a tastic crowd sourced merch contest in the facebook group the love and the time of corona the public. And this is taking from jasmine's. I wanna give jazz with a shoutout to for coming up with the idea. But as you all know launched our merch shopped eatable podcast dot com slash shop back in november. Yeah it was like right before Black friday cyber monday there is this idea of like. Hey can the community come up with like sayings to put on march. We can all vote in then. Yeah we decided to actually do the contest and basically people submitted all their ideas and people could up. Vote on the ones they like. The best actually ended up being a tiebreaker. Between i'm dateable. Are you in the winner that we ended up choosing and the winner actually will get a piece of merch with. They're saying so they'll get to pick what they want in will print them for other people too so anyone that entered the contest will get a promo code but anyone that didn't enter. That just wants to buy the march like it will be public for everyone. Should we announce the winner. I know we announced in the facebook group. But it was. It went to ryan jeffrey Ryan's saying was own your baggage. Don't just carry it around. Yeah yeah i love it. I love it. People are just really liked that one so we will be putting on. I could see that as a luggage sticker like. Oh yeah i get good idea where should go on top of a suitcase. Yeah exactly there's needs to be some suitcase tie with it. But i could see. It'll make a hat or something to there's many ways back could work back pat. i'll be calling. Yeah duffel bag or backpack. Yeah yes we will be creating the merch in the upcoming weeks. And we'll let you all know when it's available on the store but you can get everything else. I know the social. I just didn't get a -cially available. One has been flying off the shelves. Especially after last week's so ryan actually the same person that won the contest. He sent us a photo of him in the airport wearing the sweatshirt with like ten mass at a face shield so goggle. Goggles really made that outfit. It was hot.

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it was hot as like. Did anyone ask you about the majority's dope. But i got up and then he goes viral. The next day thought it at the airport. Well congratulations to you ryan. If anybody else has other ideas for merch just hit us up in the community where you can see. 'em us on instagram. We love any sings that come from listeners. So keep an eye out for even more new merge coming up again that's dateable podcast dot com slash shop. And for anybody in the sounding board you can get discounts in armored store. So what is the sound for anybody new or for if you need a refresher. The sounding board is our premium community. So we have our facebook group and then we have the smaller group and its members only and there's three tiers in the sounding board and find out all about it. I won't go into all the tears here. But you know to data podcasts dot com slash sounding board and this has been a very unique community for us a form out of covid. believe it or not We have these very intimate discussions every month. We have an audio series which is almost like an audio book of going addressing like one issue that we deal with especially when it comes to monitor dating. it's applicable act applicable to everything in life. There's discount in the merch store. We have monthly events as well and our monthly event. This month is the most dateable competition so anybody in the sounding board. That is your event this month. And if you choose depending on which tier you choose you could also do one win. Coffee dates with julian. I and we can ship. It's all about you so shooting the ship. I think i just says. Shoot the ship dossier the ship with julian i and again. It's just up to you. How however you want to customize your subscription it's It's a has been a very like i used to were intimate quite a bit for that group because it is very intimate we have these very like discussions believe it or not with strength mere strangers that i feel like have become so close During this time. So if you're looking for extra support or extra voices extra opinions or just a this idea of a community of feel a feeling of a like a virtual family. That's where you need to be the sounding board. Yeah people have really said that has been a game changer. Like i know janice our moderator. Said like she's like made a just like how much forget love. Everyone it here like this feels like actual friends. I know shield. He's actually trying to organize. Get together where people actually meet in real life pending covert of course but there is like so much going on with that. And of course if you do join. Now you've got to go to the event for free which you mentioned. So if you've been kind of on the edge about joining and you're also like most debatable. Sounds really freaking awesome. Maybe this is the time to give it a shot. Yup and if you are like. I'm so confused by everything that just you guys just sad. Because i was a lot of information just dateable pa slash sounding board all that information laid out for you. In of course this episode is made possible by our sponsors are are. I sponsor as a book called driven by rebecca and nettie. This is the fourth book in zanetti's heart pumping romantic suspense series featuring operatives in a secret of homeland defense department all the previous releases in the series where usa today bestseller. So you know. This is going to be good known for her high octane action. Scorching sensuality and strong yet. Emotionally complex characters award-winning author. Rebecca zanetti has had nearly a dozen books selected as amazon best romances of the month including lethal lies mercury striking and fallen in this fourth installment new york times bestselling authors in eddie mixes high octane with even more intense romantic tension as to misfit a secret homeland defense department chase down at diabolical serial killer to learn more about driven by rebecca zanetti. Just head on over to kensington books dot com or wherever books are sold. And here's another book. We love to highlight. This episode is also brought to you by the duke heist by erica. Ridley a secret identities. Forbidden love opposites attract romance from a new york times bestselling author. Why soup the normal way when you can accidentally kidnap one in an elaborately planned heist. You're the deeds years ago. Khloe chester in five other uniquely talented or adopted by a wealthy baron with a secret mission. The motley winchester family fights for justice from the margins of high society so some reviewers the series two one of my favorite series on tv. right now. the umbrella kademi. Now it's not paranormal. But there's a strong family dynamic. An each sibling has a very unique skill.

00:25:02 - 00:30:01

that helps them save the day. Grab your copy of the duke heist at your favorite store or visit. Erica relief dot com for more information. There's a special bonus for a limited time. If you buy the duke heist and register your purchase on erica's web site. She'll send you a free bonus. Winchester novella visit eric relief. That spelled e. r. I c. a. r. l. e. dot com and stay tuned after this episode for a free sample of the audiobook of the duke heist. Cool so shall we get into. Logan logan syria. Let's hear from her. We've got a fan favourite back. And i also think that i'm just going to make this rule now. Have you've been a guest on either on our show or event for three or more times your regular. We're going to call you dr fame. Vip not only she a fan favorite. She's also vip hall of freight hall of fame regular. He was logan yuri. She was on season nine episode fourteen on a very popular episode called the science of dating high. Logan how're you. I am so glad to be back and thank you for the title. Regular i'm very plaque is in the mail. We just got. It may so logan spin. A guess on our podcast. She was also a guest at our live show which was irl with earning years ago. Forgot about that. Yes that's right four timer. Sti- are l. events yup absolutely a showroom to tell people that you seize the day but day. Hey it was a very expensive. We realized that you could get a day for ten grand so it was no cheap okay. Toilet that we're talking about as she was also most recently one of our sounding board events talking about the signs of dating but also her latest book how to not die alone. She's a behavioral scientist turned dating coach. An internationally recognized expert on modern love acid director of relationship science at the dating app hinge. Logan this is actually julies favour app. Just for the record. They'll get a research team dedicated to helping people find love after studying psychology at harvard. Never heard of it. She ran google's behavioral science team. The irrational lab. She was at twenty eighteen. Ted resident and again or julie from south florida. She now lives in bay area with her husband. Scott than they been living there for the last ten years. Welcome back glad to hear yay wish. We are on person but happy to be doing this. I feel like. I've seen you lot. But then i realized that you're right. Last time we saw you in real life was over a year ago. Yeah here twenty nineteen event. Yeah and i think what always always fascinates be about your stuff. Is you like. I feel like you call it like you. See it in the sense that we are rational people we we know what we want but we never actually know what we want. And i feel like so. We hear that we're supposed to fall in love like why. Do you think that we need to like more in terms of love. yeah. I love that question. There's so many directions. I can take it so one thing is that people sometimes say to me off. Your china turned love into this rational thing. Love is this explosive chemical thing. Why are you applying rationality to it and while love is a very natural reaction. Dating is dating is something that we have created dating something that didn't exist More than one hundred fifty years ago and dating is really a skill so what. I'm trying to help people with is understand that it's natural to love button dating needs to be taught and what i want people to understand. Is that if you're dating and things aren't working out for you. It may not be a result of effort. You might be putting in the right amount of effort getting the right number of people all of that. You might be stuck in a pattern of bad behavior and you need to actually reflect on that pattern. Learn your blind spots and then overcome them. Because that's how you change. It's not just effort. It's also breaking bad habits so when you say okay so love is natural but dating is not natural and you would also call it irrational. Humans are irrational when it comes to finding a life partner. Why is that why. Why is we take something. That's so natural to us but then we rationalize it. Yeah so. My background is in behavioral science. That's the study of how people make decisions and one of the key. Tenets of behavioral science is that were irrational predictable ways and so what that means is that we all have these cognitive biases.

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The brain clouds that consistently trip us up. So one of them is that we tend to act not in our own best interest. So we'll say. I want to save for retirement. But then there's a sale at west elm and we buy tons of new rugs for an apartment or we say we wanna eat healthy and then there's a bagel place and we eat a big bagel. So it's like we have these goals but we tend to prioritize the president and not the future and we get in our own way and that happens with love in particular right so we're irrational and areas especially matters of the heart and so what that looks like is you might consistently be tripped up by the kind of person who makes you feel one way and you kind of get addicted to that feeling of like chase rejection. But actually what's best for you is to be with someone who responds to your tax. Who shows that they're interested in you. Who would be a kind long-term partner. So what i'm trying to really do in the book and in general in life is help people understand. Your irrational brand is getting in the way of you making better decisions in dating and when you can learned that better decision in dating that's how you break the bad habit and find love and so in your own personal story and i want to get into this a little bit sooner than later because i think a lot of times with experts such suit yourself us as podcast hosts. We are commonly extracting information from you yet. We don't know much about you. And i think what i really want to do with this episode is turn it around to learn more about logan because obviously you got into this for reasons outside of academia and you have said that you swipe left on your husband scott more about that because you're now happily married but you could have been this little sliding doors chance that you didn't meet. Yeah absolutely. I actually have the chills when you said that because even though i wrote it i haven't really had someone to reflect it back to me like just hearing it. I kind of had the feeling of like what if i hadn't met him again. This is the person that i chose. I love this person. And so i'm really happy to share my story and i think in general the best way to learn is through stories and obviously that's what you do with the podcast and so if i can share my journey of being unhappy in dating to happily married to empower people so yeah so scott and i met in college and we know this because he wrote on my facebook wall in two thousand and facebook. Yup a really random story. The guy was dating at the time was in a math class with him. They lived in the same dorm and we ended up probably sitting near each other in the cafeteria. Meeting that day didn't see each other. Facebook friends seven years later he comes up to me at google near the google shuttle and says hey. Didn't you date so and so in college. I'm on this person and and i said yes and a few weeks or months later i invited him to a college alumni at lunch we had launch is said oh. I'm trying to learn this. Coding language called are and he said. I just dropped out of a phd in that coding language and what was so interesting is that we became friends. He started tutoring me a really good tutor and the whole time. I didn't think of him as anything more than a friend. I was dating tons of people. I was on the app so it was really like my big year of being single and that fall i went to burning man. Met this guy totally obsessed with him chasing him around like really trying to make it happen really hurting myself with like the pursued in somebody just not being interested and then i myself out of kind of desperation went to a dating coach and through that work i realized that not only was his person from burning man. Just not the right fit. Didn't make me feel great. Wasn't interested in me but this person who has already in my life this guy scott did make me feel the way that i wanted to all. Why were we having lunch at work all the time. Why did it go from once a month to once a week to every day and finally we just crossed that threshold from friends to more than france and so it was really a long time. We didn't start dating until twenty fifteen but we net in two thousand seven and later. I realized that. I had actually seen him on. A dating app knew that because we had multiple friends in common and that i had seen him and been like he's wearing a tank top. He's not smiling backwards. Hat abro might type. And that i had actually swiped laughed honest person on tinder and here i was you know a while later. Absolutely smitten with rich person in our married. So you know what's so fascinating is at this woman in our community made. The statement that i felt was so profound that she's like the one thing that we judge partners on his dating at profiles. But the one thing you never do. Interrelationship is created heating at profile. So it's basically like we're judging was something that really doesn't matter in a relationship like why do you think that we we have certain presets with dating apps or like. How do you think they might be leading us astray.

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Like you're saying you might have passed over your husband completely. Yeah so i absolutely love that statement. And i think there's probably a variety of things in life where you're like the test to get in has nothing to do with what it is like right l. Sat really determine how good of a trial lawyer that has to do with like. How good are you with this type of Logic problem and so yeah. I really like that perspective that the dating app is just the introduction. What matters is how you feel with the person so you should really think about. The dating app is that first step and then the date is when you really begin to day. How do i feel on this person. And mike curious about them. Jillian terms of your question. There's a few different ways that i found that dating apps can lead us astray and i should mention that. I work hinge. I'm very excited about hinge passionate about it and there's a reason why after writing this book i chose to work there and that's because i think they're holds designed to be deleted things real and i interviewed the ceo during the process of writing the book. And i was like. There's no way that that's true because wouldn't you just lose all your users. And he was like no like when we started with designed to be deleted. We actually became so much more popular than ever anyway. That's my coffee. I love hedge as you pointed out. There's always going to be people looking for love. Oh so. I'm not anti dating app but i do think that there's some flaws with some of the designs of some of the dating apps especially the ones that are gamified. So one of the big ones is that they've turned us into relations. Shoppers native relationship irs. And what that means is relationship. Ing is the process of finding a partner falling in love creating a relationship relations. Shopping is this new term. That means shopping for a partner as if it was a consumer object. So you know you're looking for your new bluetooth headphones and you go to wire cutter. And you say what are the best wireless headphones and then you had to amazon and you check out the specs in your evaluating this product but human beings are not two-dimensional products their three dimensional real life people all experienced. And so you can't look for a person the way you would look for headphones you have to actually experience and so human beings dates are much more like movies are wine where you have to experience them to see if you like them not a flat. Object that you can just evaluate based on its specs. Let's just backup for a sec. Because i want us to get in the head of logan yuri at the time when you realize oh my gosh this guy who has been in my life is the person for me yet. I spent all this time and energy chasing people who were not right for me. I think a lot of people are in this place but you are the perfect example of someone who is in a relationship where you realize. It's really what matters in the long run and recently you encountered experience that put everything in perspective. So you wrote this. Very touching Inspirational article in modern love in the new york times. I really want you to share this with our audience because it moved me in so many different ways it just gave me tears but also gave me just hope and optimism that i think a lot of daters could here right now. Sure yeah. I'm happy to share that story and it's interesting because it's ongoing so it's happening right now but basically in the book i talk about the story aside where you know. I was friends with god that i had this revelation with the dating coach and then throughout the book. You learn about deciding. Should we get married. And then towards the end of the bookie. He proposes right so the book sort of ends with like were engaged. But then it's a book. I finished in a while ago. Like what happens after that. So what i can share with your listeners. Is that scott. And i were supposed to get married last august. We postponed because of covid. We've found out last spring that he was actually diagnosed with a rare form of bone cancer. And we decided to get last-minute married our friends through us a socially distanced masked wedding in golden gate park. We have this really wild just very intense series of days where on saturday our friends gathered on a rooftop and did a foot roast which was a comedy roast in which people made fun of scott made fun of cancer. Made fun of Amputations sorry i should mention. His bone cancer diagnosis required him to get a below the knee amputation on his right leg and the next day we had the wedding which was of course. Oh intense because people are gathering to celebrate us but also they know that the scary thing is happening and just it was that much more poignant for many people is the first gathering that they'd been to during cove it and you know that moment in the vows of saying in sickness and in health. I think everyone the golden gate park was there was like took a breath and it was really intense and then the next day he had his amputation. He had his surgery and so our lives just got really challenging. He was in the hospital. A lot of time.

00:40:00 - 00:45:02

Going through chemo. Because of covid we were super isolated and at a certain point. I was just like this isn't working like i'm by myself. Nobody can come help us really really a solo experience and so some of our friends had started this communal living place called radish and we went to visit and we just had this like really beautiful time and we laughed for the first time in so long and we got really lucky and they had a first floor apartment which was super important for accessibility reasons and we moved in a few weeks later and since then it has been such amazing experience. We have twelve housemates basically besides us. We live in a one bedroom apartment. But we have all this communal space outdoor space and a communal kitchen. And everyone's just been so fantastic like incredibly supportive visiting dot in the hospital supporting me when i come home. And we call these people other significant others and the title at alive finkel of northwestern came up with and it's based on research from a woman named elaine john that found that we tend to expect to get all of our needs met by one person but if you can go to discreet people for discreet needs so you go to your exercise loving friend to exercise with you go to your moving loving friend to go to the movies with you. Talk to your music loving friend about music and you don't say to your partner. Why aren't you exercising going to the movies and talking about music with me. Those partnerships are happier. Those people are happier and those people are your does your other significant others and so moving into radish being surrounded by os has just been such a profoundly helpful and beautiful experience and really i think is a testament to these people and to the power of community especially during such an isolating time like the pandemic. i think. also it's shows to that like the stuff that we look for on dating apps like they must have similar interests. They must be over. I don't know five eight or whatever it is that is like some arbitrary number like at the end of the day they don't matter like that's what is difficult about an i'm pro data gaps to. I don't want to say i'm not in any way. I think they're a great way to meet people. But it's hard because you've brought this up in our past episodes that you just don't know the so we're forced to look at that stuff but your story totally puts in perspective like how in the long haul. That stuff is just so unnecessary. Yeah and i can share one more thing that i've been reflecting on as i said the song going. That's still going through chemo. Like they're not that happy ending yet. Like this is very much my life in the president but and this is a very rare cancer right. I think yeah only eight hundred people have it in the us. Yeah eight hundred americans year diagnosed with this. It's super rare. And one. I mean just to add some texture. The story like not just even random. He's a the end. He is extremely healthy. He read a book called. How did not die as opposed to my book. How to and his that. This book is about us less olive lil roaster vegetables steam at like. He's really that guy. He's super healthy. Works out every day with jack and everything puts tumor and everything and he's an a. I. cancer researcher. He's literally works in cancer research. He works in this field. Basically he create he worked on a team that created a model that identifies breast cancer more accurately and mammograms. And it's just like the guy with the cancer. Screenings were sitting together looking at his cancer. Screens is just really surreal. And there's a part in the book. I say i quote an article called. Will he hold your purse. What the article will he hold your purse about. Is this woman who is an oncologist. She's talking about her friends. Who are looking for love and say oh he must love fishing he must love dancing and she's like no that doesn't matter like icy couples going through the hardest thing of their lives and some couples guy holds the woman's purse and it's this representation of taking on your burdens and being there for you anticipating your needs and like that doesn't happen every couple and she's her definition of what's look for is will he hold your purse and what i about the last nine months of my life. I'm like oh. I'm literally holding the purse. I'm holding the backpack. I'm holding the crutches. Like the person that i tell you to find in the book like i'm being that person. Okay so for the people that are actively dating right now like how do you cut through the prom. Unlike the bullshit essentially to set yourself up to find that person. Yeah so. I know that the data you know. Let's just talk about the foundations. Dating apps are the most common way that people meet these days. We know the research from michael rosenfeld of stanford we are in a pandemic that means really probably the only way of meeting. Someone is online so you are using these apps to meet someone. How do you make the apps work for you. So step one. And i'm sure you've talked about this so many times on the podcast is just having a strong profile and i know that that sounds simple. I just want to go through a couple of the main things.

00:45:02 - 00:50:01

Of course your first photo has to be great. Of course you need photos that are recent and flattering. Of course you need photos that show you doing different activities and you really wanna think of your profiles your opening line. Because that's what people are responding to. So i had a client who did circus and she had a trapeze photo and it was a cool photo. She looked great but everyone would talk to her about is now saying yes. Because that's your opening line and they're engaging with you if you don't wanna talk about trapeze don't have a trapeze photos. And of course your profile props need to have 'vulnerability in humor in show you are an f. Everyone did that then. We would have better interactions on the app but the much more important thing is to realize you just don't really know what side of you somebody brings out until you have that date. I'm all about the virtual days i really have. I've had some very meaningful conversations over video chat this year not video dating. But i'm certainly right. You know doing therapy over video and talking to my family over video and like i've had you know when scott in the hospital were face timing like there is an intimacy when you can see the person and the richness of the voice so just profile is just like the introduction like get to the day. Get to the face to face if you spend less time saying like. Oh he's a consultant. All consultants are boring. I'm gonna say no to him. It's like what if you actually think. I don't know what i want. My type could be wrong. I could be completely misguided about what i think. I need a partner and instead i'm going to be more open minded. Go out with a variety of people and pay attention to how i feel around them. And there's exercises that you can do that. Help train you at getting better at that. So that you don't have a date and say yup. He checked all the boxes graduate school. Six feet tall six figure income. And instead you leave the and say he made me feel embarrassed. He wasn't affirming and he didn't ask any questions. I'm not saying that person again and like people really need to hone the skill of tuning into how someone makes you feel. And that's advice that works in a job interview Whether you're looking for roommates when you're dating like get into your body get into your emotions like what is this person bringing out of you and go for the people that bring out the best side of you and you get disheartened because we see these comments in our facebook group that are like oh she in texts me back with. Should i say next or a. We went on a few different dates. This guy and i. I really like him but now he's not he's he's being not responsive to my text messages or whatever it may be. I really hope if you're going through that our listeners a you can listen to logan story and think beyond the getting together and kind of almost foreshadow into what your life is like in the future like when you're old and when you're sitting on the couch during quarantine 'cause that's doing life together if that's how we should be filtering for people because at that point who cares. How many texts they sent you. It doesn't even matter anymore right. I think the part that we we. We hear this on our facebook group to is that like people don't wanna make people a priority if they don't know them yet so that's where the stuff gets a little tricky of like. How much can you read into their behavior when you really. They're kind of a stranger will save had a couple dates with them. Like let's be honest. This person might not slight pause their entire life for you. But i guess what would you say like. How can you still evaluate them or would you say that you should expect them to kinda show up all in one. Yeah there's a couple layers to that. So one thing is I was talking to a dating coaching client recently. And she was describing this guy and she was saying we met up. We had so much fine. He was great. We hooked up. We had a really good time and since then like he hasn't really been clear about how he feels about me and then sometimes he'll text back and sometimes he won't like she went on and on about all the ways that he's really been ambiguous and it just felt like she. Oh then she said but he talks about celebrating our birthday together and route the future. And this and that you totally faker maker. and it's part of like love bombing narcissists. I wanna make you fall in love with me versus. I actually am interested in you and care about you and for that i was just like pay attention to his actions. Not his words. And i felt like his actions were that he wasn't showing up whereas his words were like he was saying he's gonna show him and so. I think that. I'm sure you've covered the topic before but it's like the person you want to be with long-term what i call in the book. The life partner Is the person that shows up is the person that's reliable is the person that says. Oh it's important to you that i joined your sisters zoom. I'll be there the prom. Nate is the person that you crush on your younger. they're cute. they're fun to dance with at the prom. They look good in the pictures. You want to have sex with them. Go for the life partner. Not the prom date. His the life partner is the person that is going to follow through and so reading between the lines and some of these stories.

00:50:01 - 00:55:00

I'm not assuming that anyone who doesn't tax back is a quote unquote prom date. Not a life partner but if people actually say like i want to be treated in a certain way i wanna be with a secure partner who tax when they say they will and makes me feel good about myself and good about the relationship. That's so key and if you're interested in the scott story what i can share is that i was absolutely anxiously attached. That means that. I was kind of addicted to the chase. I expected them. When i dated somebody they would pull away and i would have to convince them to like me. And that was the pattern that was coming out with the burning man guy. When i started dating scott it was totally different. I remember this one time i was. I was walking home as onto visit arrow and he was supposed to meet up with my friends and something happened and i texted him just like this slew of really angry text messages and i thought that we would get into a fight because that was my behavior right had ignored his calls and i was doing what's called a protest behavior and instead he just wrote. Hey it sounds like we should talk about this in person. And it was so refreshing. Refreshing was mind blowing. I was like oh. That's an option and it really stopped me i. He did a number of things like that where it was like. Oh with the other person with all the other people. It would have been a fight. And i have this pattern. But because he was securely attached he broke that pattern and he taught me so much about how to show up in a relationship and we did talk about in person. Anatoly blew over and like the anger that felt in the texting. Wasn't there when we met up. Because i wasn't even important. So when people have a pattern and they keep reinforcing it. They don't get a chance to learn but by opening we are interested in which for me happened through the stadium coach. I had a chance to date this different type of person. Who taught me a different way to date. And i felt so good and sometimes i say this to scott. I'm like we just started dating and dating. And he's like that sounds so bad. That sounds like we weren't like into choosing. I was like no i was like it. Just never we just never broke up because it just was working and cap working in a kept working and eventually we're like let's do life together. So why do you think you passed him over in the first place on the app on the app just silly things like i mentioned. He was just things that make no sense like he was wearing a baseball cap backwards. Hang up on and he seemed like this like i called it in the book. Like an unsmiling bro. Which like not that. I couldn't have wound up with the bro. I was just some hesitance dating apps. You've got really superficial in. You're looking at a bunch of people in your like would prefer the guy without the tank. Top and the hat but julia. I know you're really interested in this topic of we think we know we want. But we're wrong right. That's a great example. Where scott's two-dimensional persona when i was relation shopping made me think he was one person but scott's three-dimensional real life personality is the person that makes me happy in the world and so the takeaway isn't dany ops. Mislead you because you can't find anyone it's realized that there limited in what they can show you get to the date as soon as possible. So but then. Here's a question then you can't. It's impossible to go on dates with everybody. The come across on dating. Now you can. If it's video date you can't and of pressure needs to be even if there's no rhyme or reason we all need some what of filters to decide who we want to swipe on so. How do we reconcile that. Because now you're saying we should be more open on who were swiping on at the same time. We can't swipe on everyone can actually how. What's your what's your record for. Most video dates in a week. A week know we. I want to hear this say may be like. Maybe it's like three. I don't know. I haven't been tracking. I'll start tracking for. That's great. I mean good for you happy and i hope someone. Listening is wow. I've really gone on any so anyway. I applaud joy. You know you can have your own zoom room and keep it open and just gave everybody hours with julie. people does pop in my overlap. Whatever i'm going to start doing that so i'll just be like everyone on the data. Gap here is by zublena. Here's my chatelet. Whatever you want behavioral scientists tactic good or bad what he thinks bird honestly. This is a hard year. I am applauding anyone. That is putting themselves out there figuring out the virtual date thing learning how to be vulnerable. You know you still need to find live even if the world feels like. It's ending so. I just congratulate you for being on dates in any capacity okay. So that's a us question though about like let's say hypothetically you don't have the time to go on like hundreds of dates week. Yeah no. i think it's a great question and it is something that i thought about in the book was like does this.

00:55:00 - 01:00:01

Feel like an inconsistency due. I explain this so i can walk through my logic. Which is of course you need to filter. You can't go on dates with everyone but filter based on the right things and so let's first talk about what filtering based on the wrong things is so i have a chapter about what matters more than you think in long term relationships and what matters last uc right some of the things that matter less than you think our physical attractiveness money similar personalities and shared hobbies the things that matter more than people think they do our kindness and emotional stability loyalty the ability to make hard decisions together. The side of you that they bring out and having a growth mindset. What's very challenging. Is that things like looks and money. Which is some you know your job can some has via proxy for those are really easy to tell on dating app right right right right other things like loyalty kindness ability make our decisions together hadid easy to filter on not so that that is a genuine challenge but the point. Is that if you can give credence to the dating app profile and actually to start getting out there and going on dates and you can start to develop these skills and you can look for these things so a good proxy for loyalty. As does this person have a lot of friends from different stages of their lives or they that more fair weather friends where they go through different phases of having this party group and this group and things like that or when it comes to kindness. Are they the kind of person that helps somebody move. Are they respectful to the server when it comes to making hard decisions together. Cove is actually a great time to evaluate that. Are you talking about how you're going to navigate the first kiss and what if your precautions ben. And how should we manage the fact that we're both in pods with people so it's really important to realize that while you do need to filter you need to filter on the right things and so maybe remove your height preference so maybe you need to remove some filters like height you know if this person went to college maybe even like living in a neighborhood really close to you but you need to add some builders like how does this person make me feel. What side of me does this person bring out. And i i totally understand that. Those are not things that you can evaluate on in the app. Right what k- changing the framework is saying. If i just understand that the app doesn't give me the information i need. Then i'll just look at people whose profiles interests me do the best to connect and get on a date quicker and so it's not like it's not like a game where there's a secret code and now you know how to evaluate profiles. It's more like the game and the secret code is that there is no secret code to evaluating profiles and instead you just have to go on the date so this is how i used it a gap. So that's very different than a lot of people in our facebook community. i've realized is that i just. I don't read people's profiles as i. Swipe i do like kind of a gut reaction. I probably swipe on more people than not sometimes in then from there i put more weight on the actual conversation and also look at who like reaches out to me. You're who i feel compelled to reach out after reading their profile. Because i just feel like there's so many factors of like someone might not even be active on this or they might be interested in me too. So i don't wanna spend thirty minutes dissecting their profile if they're not gonna even swipe back on me and i personally would rather have more conversations because i think yes. You're actually get the full picture through like a text message type conversation but i do think you can start to like get a vibe in energy can see if they're asking you questions back you can see. Just how a conversation is flowing. And that's kind of how i wiggle it down even further people that want to take to a video call and then from there are people that i want to actually meet in real life. Yeah i absolutely love that. And i think that what we've seen in the research hint that video chats our this great low pressure vibe check its way less intense setup that a real day you know. You're not spending money on drinks. You're not necessarily using a lot of allen or you're just saying you can have chemistry. You make me laugh. Do i like the sound of your voice right. It's just like this gut check and so that's been really helpful. And i totally agree with what you're saying about a conversation images. Is this person putting in effort right or is this person what we call z q zero questions. Oh my god those people kill me. Yes that's And so really emojis or like. Yeah yeah like the one word response back in like one carrying the condo. It's like the worst so if we have to summarize it's realized that the profiles are pretty superficial. Get to the chat in the chat. Say is this person putting an effort. Do we seem to be getting along. Do the video chat. Do the vibe jack and then from there you really start to get to know the person and if you move away from dating obser- game to dating apps are basically the modern matchmaker. Just how to find the person that that i that i go out with. I think that you put less pressure on. Interactions of the app gaming. The app and much more. Like how do i show up for a day in the right mindset.

01:00:01 - 01:05:09

How do i ask questions that get to know the right person like there's just so much talk about the apps like The dates are what lead to a relationship. Not looking for her. I mean i would. Totally spiked over my ex. Wife met on hinch like if i was really dissecting profile but i think one of the things i really liked about have is. He wasn't someone that was like obsessed with data gap so he just put up a profile. That looked like normal like there was an attraction enough in them where we actually met in person and started talking. That's when it really grew a lot more totally. Think the intro looking at it. That way is such a better perspective check than like you were saying like water all the levers you can pull it all that i feel like we look at dating profiles like a pageant coming on stage for you to judge them and then we make a judgment on them but i think the other way of looking at profiles is i like playing the game. Why did they choose this picture. So if you go through some profile they obviously intentionally pick these photos because they want to convey some sort of image about them if they do have a picture of them in at a party with right cops. That person who chose that picture did not want to use that picture to play that. They're kind or family oriented. They want to show that they are fun and they like party so instead of us being like. Oh this person's this that. I think another is to thing. Why why this person choose this photo. What are they trying to convey. I think that's really clever in it does follow piece of that. I often give poaching clients who are either dating relationships which is get curious so for example i had a client who was moving in with his girlfriend now fiancee and she was holding onto a lot of her physical and he's a minimalist and he was like what am i doing with this maximalist this order and i said get curious ask her what those objects to her ask her. What her history as maybe this has to do with her family's financial Her parents financial situation growing up. Just get curious. And so. I love that frame of why this person make this decision. I was gonna take at the same time. I've seen this inconsistency and dating apps where when you're evaluating profiles you think what did they this photo. It must have meaning but when people set up balance that's actually not their mindset. I walked a lot of people through profile creations. And this is what they do. They say finally owning the app. I'm fighting this motivation. Wave and i want to get to my matches as soon as possible. And they go to the photo gallery on their phone and they pick. They don't think about how they look in them. They're not there yet. They're not texting their friends for photos of me. This is actually true. I have found men with men. Okay yeah i say no i think for women to like i think like i was gonna say the same thing like unless you're someone that avidly takes photos sometimes. There's just a certain amount that you have and if you're out with friends you might have more photos that look party ish per se because that's when you're taking photos when i'm if i'm reading a book on my couch. I'm taking a selfie of myself. Yeah absolutely so. I think it depends on the person. Some people are really interested me. Sometimes people keep an album on their phone of good pictures of themselves but like most people don't and so it's a couple of things the effort you put in. It's the fact that. I wanna get to my matches as soon as possible. It's also so that. I don't think that we are the best of the pictures. We look good in right. One thing that i have done with my clients that recommend doing the book is a bunch of pictures. Put them in an album. Send them to friends or even people who don't know them in an album and have people tell you. Oh this is these are photos would keep these photos. I'd cut and this is your best photo and it's the one that should go first and so maybe you don't do that the first time you sign up for the app but like you should be updating your profile and you should be scientists when you date you should say. This picture gets a ton of likes and people comment on it. I'll make it. I this one. No one's ever commented on. Maybe i'll remove it and replace it with something better. I think that if you put too much faith in people's profiles when we say they were very intentional about this and this red caught means that they're not ready. Have kids than we actually might miss out on some great. This is why my recommendation is actually be humble realized that none of us are that good at evaluating people in this capacity. And if you actually just put less faith in your ability to evaluate people this way and more time and attention into tuning into how you feel when you're with someone that is the skill this worth developing. That's gonna help you in every phase of your life learning how to evaluate people in dating an assuming you can read between the lines. That's actually not true. And that's not even the skill that's worth developing so here people asking like. Hey that's great. If you have a shit ton a mess like matches. What if i don't have many matches like how do i actually apply what you all are talking about. When i don't have that many people to even apply it to julie that's a important question and our mutual friend k. Thon he came to one of my book accountability dinner. So that's when. I would write two chapters and have a friend hosted inter and they would read the chapters and give feedback and there is a chapter about dating apps and how there's too many choices and we're overwhelmed by the paradox of choice.

01:05:09 - 01:10:03

And how do we choose among these all these people. And he's like. I'm a brown man in my forties. This is not my problem. My problem is not choosing amongst the people. My problem is getting matches in the first place and it was just so fascinating and at that point i appointed him as my diversity and inclusion considering for the buck which actually is the perfectly suited person was really helpful. And what i would say to people. Is that although you can feel like. It's a numbers game. It's actually really just making sorry taking advantage of the matches that you do gatt and so some of this is basic but it's is your profile. The best it could be is your first picture. Which is the one that people are seeing that the one that you look most attractive in. Can you take new photos. Can you add humor with hinge. We now have roses. Can you send a rose to someone to stand out and it's actually just understanding that like yes. there are racial and age and geographic discrepancies differences. That make it more challenging for some people to find matches but that if you actually really invest in your profile right those comments that are super thoughtful and put effort in lots of different people find love on the apps all the time and that in some ways you're at an advantage because you're not getting distracted by the masses and you actually have the attention and ability to invest in the matches that you do have you could also put in your profile stuff like you were saying and i think i'm going to do this. Moving forward is lean into like growth mindset. Or you know loyalty or some of the things that you were saying. Actually do matter a lot more than we think. Oh yeah i think people should be bold in their profiles. I was talking to someone today. Who was telling me about how she had been proud to cova using the app just to hook up and she was like it was really fun and it was what i needed after the break-up and i put what i'm looking for our casual interactions and she was like so many people are afraid to put what they want whether it's casual interactions or a serious relationship and it's like why don't you just think about that is a filter. And why don't you just be more real earlier. On and people are attracted to vulnerability drawn to the magnetism of people being real. And if you just put yourself out there and you're like been on here for a while like would love to find someone to build something serious with like sure you'll turn some people off but aren't those the people that you didn't want to be with a and like in general if there's something like big takeaways that i can give people one of them is just be real because eventually you're going to have to be yourself anyway. Why spend those first six months wearing a mask and the other one is. Throw out your checklist. You're probably wrong. About what you want. And you're so much better off being minded and then spending time with someone and seeing how they make you feel well is going to say that. I'm not saying kay towns like this but there are men that i've talked to that say like i don't get any matches. But then they're passing people left. And right so i think you also need to look at your own behavior. Also like i think. There is a vicious cycle on dating apps. That people don't like they always think they can do better. And i think you actually talked about this on our last episode that just because you see all these smiling faces feels like all these people are like hitting on you at a bar when they really arch like you think like there's all these people out there than you start to get pickier and pickier so there. I'm sure there are some people that truly aren't getting matches. But i think you should also look inwards to and say like m my putting out as much. Am i being too picky either. you know. that's a great point. Like i'm imagining a person in my mind. Not a real person. But like i can really imagine that archetype. And they say oh. I don't get any matches. The apps don't work for me. People are doing this against me but if they sat down with their friend and maybe even show them how they swipe or how they decide their friend might say like that person looks fantastic. Like why are you interested in that person and so this is where we get to this main theme which is like what are your patterns that are holding you back if you blame the environment. If you blame oh the matches don't like me or this doesn't work for me. That's but if you actually look within yourself and say like well. What are the things that within my control. And how can i actually be more open minded or develop the skill or break things off sooner when the person clearly isn't interested. That's how you break out of the pattern. And so for that person. I would encourage them to look at their own swiping behavior and see if they could actually be more open minded and be interested in different types of people. Here's the strategy. I wanna run by you if we don't really know what we're looking for and we're just blindly swiping through. Do you think our offense can find better matches for us. And how do you feel about having your friends. Swipe for you. Yes so so. One thing that i talk about a lot in the book. Is this idea of dating blind spots. So these are patterns of thinking patterns of behavior that prevent you from finding love. But that you don't have access to so there what's holding you back but you couldn't necessarily identify them and i have the biz.

01:10:03 - 01:15:01

That's on my website. That's called the three dating tendencies. And it's a way to figure out what you're dating. Blind spots are but another way to figure out what dating blindspot soccer is to ask your friends and your friends look. I'm really incident changing. Why do you think i'm still single. Why do you think struggled. And that's their opportunity to say you're too picky or you're not picking off or you consistently day guys that are interested in you and then when they tell you that you try to convince them to be in jinyu war you date women for three months and then you dumped them because you're always looking for the next best thing and so if we actually just take time to look at our dating blind spots it really helps us identify those patterns that need to change that being said matchmaking is hard and i think knowing your friends bad habits is maybe easier knowing the type of person that your friend would be great with so i see in this. You know. i've seen the apps where you swipe for someone. I think from time to time that can be useful. But the thing i would more focus on is have your friends. Illuminate for you. You're dating blind spots and have them be your accountability buddies in getting over those blind spots in having to so. I feel like we've talked about how to get smarter at dating. We've talked about the apps at length we've talked about like looking for the life partner over the prom date. Is there anything else that can help people. I gotta get out of their own in start to date smarter. Yes well joy. There is a story that i tell them the book about this guy named jonathan where he told me. I'm looking for a six foot. Four business executive and i want him to be really masculine and have these traits and all this stuff and he would go on dates and he would like the guys but then he would say. We just didn't have the spark. And i kept hearing that. I'm sure you hear it all the time. I didn't feel the spy right so there were two issues with what jonathan is doing. One issue is that he was going on these really boring dates. Who was doing seven. Am coffee dates. Didn't have that. Yeah no who feel sexy at seven. Am a starbucks. No one then if you do. That's something else and so. The dates themselves the environment of the date. They felt like job interviews. They're really quick. There is no time for the person to warm up to really show who they were. That was one problem is that the date felt like job interview. The other issue is what i say. Fuck the spark Let's all say it together tackling logan. It's obviously you know it has occurred in trying to be provocative. But that's the want you to remember it and throughout the book. I just want people to consistently see that what you think you're looking for. Which is this like. Immediate spark this moment of intoxication. The world stops around. You like that can happen. It's real there is a thing called. The spark. People definitely feel it all the time. But that's not the only way to date and there's a few myths that i would love to bust around. The spark is if you don't feel spark in the beginning you'll never feel it. No that's not true. Lots of people who are in great relationships did not feel the spark when they met and they worked together for a while. There's something called the mirror exposure of fact the lawyer you like why. We're the perfect example. I mean i did feel an attraction to scott when we met at that at that lunch but yeah i mean think about the dating app and we had known each other for so many years so really grew over time it grew from friendship and from just enjoying spending time with him so yes great sacks and connection can grow over time and that's why lots of people mary one of their friends or someone they work with the next one is if you have a spark then it's a great relationship. No that's not true. Lots of these people they start with everyone right this bernie man guy that i really liked while turns out. Lots of people liked him too for the same reasons. he was very sparky. he was charismatic. He knew how to make people fall for him. Doesn't mean that your connection is there. It means sparky and sometimes it's associated with some negative things with narcissism with love bombing with. What did you them future. Fakers future fakers are also seeing falling as and what you're feeling is is maybe anxiety. I don't know if this person likes me. I don't know if they're gonna show up. It's actually means. Id that we mistake for chemistry and the other myth. Is that your how we met story matters. It's not true. Think about the length of a long relationship. It's this tiny portion. It's like point zero one percent of how long you're together and oh we had this great love story and we're meant to be. That's why i'm staying in this relationship. That doesn't work. no it's like. Who cares what you're how we met story is. It doesn't matter right like it's just the intro. Powders is the relationship itself. So what i say fuck the spark and beaufort the slow burn and the slow burn is the person who the more time you spend with them. The more you like them they are this gem that you have to discover their the person that be other people don't see their qualities in them and the slow burn is who you wanna marry because that is the person that gets better over time and the spark like a person's fizzling out like be with the person who's consistent who's reliable who brings out the best side of you not that person who when you met your heart was fluttering because like that is a great feeling but you shouldn't make a long term life decision based on that feeling.

01:15:01 - 01:20:03

Yeah also we need to take inventory of all the times. We felt the spark. Because when you sit that to us last time i went back to my history and thought Who did i feel a lot of spark with and those were the people who were not communicative. They were in my is very mysterious. Because they weren't communicating. And i created the spark. Own fucked up mind in wizard between between two human beings. That was just what was made up in my mind. I love that. That's that's exactly the situation. I think though okay so online dating. I do think makes that a little harder though. Because i could see like your story with your husband that you guys knew each other over time and i've definitely had situations like that before too. That friends have grown over time. That i feel like in today's world with dating house when people don't have a great first state they're quick to move on. And so what advice would you give for people to like kind of let it ride out a little longer so i have two things from the book that makes his share with you. So one of them is what i say is a default. Make the second date default and what that means is located gone for states. They have in their mind. Could i marry this person or not. Are they good enough for me or not. They're just evaluating them the whole time and they are really missing out on what it feels like to be on a date and the point of a first date is do. I wanna go on the second date. It's just paying attention to how that person makes you feel. The second thing is that lots of people are missing a slow burn so if you make the default the second date then you don't spend the first date saying am i going to go out with them again. Assume that you will and then you actually are relaxing. And you're giving them a moment to to really warm up. And this is based on some really cool behavioral science research that shows the power of defaults. And if you think about it imagine you go to a restaurant and you get a hamburger and they say It comes with fries. Do switch to a salad or it says the hamburger comes with a salad to switch to fries. What's most likely going to happen. Is that you stick with whatever they they did. So in one the defaults a solid one defaults fries so we just tend to stick with what our rule is tend to the diva. And so if you create a role for yourself st paul of the second date than you are more relaxed on the first eight and you're more likely to find that slow burn because they are getting a chance to really show you who they are as opposed to people looking for the spark who misset the second thing i want to share with. You is this thing i have in. The book called the events decision matrix and what it is is. It's a way to decide what events to go to and obviously this is a little more complicated during cova because these events don't happen all the time but there are online virtual events that are happening and so what it is. Is you basically. Think of a two by two matrix and what the two lines are are. What is the likelihood that all enjoy this event and the other line is. What is the likelihood that i'll interact with someone at this event right and so you plot different events on it and you say okay going to the gym in a weightlifting class. That's something that i enjoy. So high likelihood of enjoyment low likelihood of interaction okay. I'm going to a movie screening of my favorite movie. High likelihood enjoyment a low likelihood of interaction. And then you keep plotting them and you find one. That's high likelihood of enjoyment and high likelihood of interaction. You go to those events like dateable event because it's like what matters so much higher. Likelihood of enjoyment means that even. If you don't meet anyone it was still not a waste of time. You liked it if you like. That kind of event is going to bring out the best side of you and then highlight. We have interaction. Invest your time in places where people are actually speaking to each other. And maybe that's a book club. Maybe that's a sounding board event. Maybe that's been queuing to your friend right. No like inter. I love the sounding board of that. 'cause the videos were on right and it was like one of the more funds zoom events i've been to because people are actually interacting and i know that it's challenging in this time to meet people in those those. Ira interactions are much harder. But you can still figure out ways to expose yourself to people who are interesting and who you can interact with and you can just. You can just see how it feels so. I just wanna clarify right now. The second qualifier is your likelihood of interacting with anybody right. We're not talking about romantic interaction. Ra- meeting someone of romantic interest is just interaction with anybody totally. Yes and it's a little easier if you see but kind of the ideas like if you go to a four person dinner party you're going to speak to every person that dinner party if you go to a movie know movies star silent if you go to a Writing workshop you're probably gonna do some solo writing but you're probably also going to share with the group and so you can really think about like okay when i've been to something like this before. How much are you by yourself. How much you speaking with people. And you want to nail that upper right hand corner which is high likelihood of interaction high likelihood that you'll enjoy the event and i have had clients who were single for years. Dating apps did not work for them and they plotted events. In this upper right hand corner they showed to those events and they felt like a different person.

01:20:03 - 01:25:19

They went from having no dates to having six states. I think like. I love your take on this. But i think sometimes people go to these events like looking for someone right and i think a lot of times the best situations are when they're more organic and also like i mean i'm partial to this because i used to run a platform that like connected people for years like this but like i think like for example you and i met through there and that's like launched this whole thing and you know and it's like i did meet a boyfriend through there but i've also met more friends and they could introduce me to someone. There's so many different paths. But i guess from your perspective like what's another benefit of going to this event even if like you don't meet someone romantic. Yeah so the benefit is that you write your your plotting likelihood of of enjoying the event. It's still something that you're doing for yourself. And so i wouldn't say like oh i'm a guy and women love these running club so i'm going to join the running club even though i hate running bright like you should have the expectation that you may not meet anyone and that. That's okay and it's still a worthwhile thing to do. And that helps prevent burnout. If you're just going to advance to meet people and you consistently aren't then you're gonna feel burnt out and if you go to new vent you don't enjoy it. It's not going to bring out the best side of you. And so i think that's why that upper right hand corner so magical because it combines Bring out the best side of you will be fine. Even if i don't meet anyone and increases likelihood of meeting someone in terms of mindset. I do think that you should go. And say i'm open to meeting someone and the reason why that matters. Is you need to look approachable. Like for an in person event like don't be on your phone. The whole time don't have headphones in your ears the whole time. Don't stand in the corner with the friend. Not looking approachable. Go with a wing person. Who knows that. You're trying to connect and i know what you were getting out which is like if you're too forced in like i need to meet someone and if i don't it's a failure that's true i also want people to be approaching these things intentionally and saying like it's more comfortable to hang out with my friend but that's not the point i'm going to take the time to shelley invested in meeting other people. Yeah i think. Julia was also speaking from ptsd. Because we've been to too many events with some girlfriends who are like. I'm here to meet a man and they get so pissed when they don't meet someone by the end of the night and they're like at. My neck is ruined. So it's just you know. Let the mindset like you're there to meet just other people with the with a likelihood of meeting someone that you may be romantically interested. I totally hear you on that. I think the key is to have the mindset of openness and the mindset of optimism but not necessarily the mindset of desperation. And i've heard from guys they say i went on a date with this woman. I felt like she was auditioning for the role of husband. She was being curious too quickly. And this and that. And i get it like if you've been dating for a while you wanna find someone like you don't wanna waste your time but your mindset going into the date how you're showing up higher showing up in these events people are reading into that and that's why you know if you're not feeling aiding right now take some time off and feel better and get back in the game and like i was saying this before it's not about it's not about going on more dates. It's about going on more intentional dates and that might look like fewer better dates. But i feel like there's so many things that i took away from this. So thank you again for being with us. But i think mean let's go into maybe takeaways but i love this part about like what really matters. I love your analogy of the prom date versus the life partner. Because i do think oftentimes we are looking for someone that checks boxes or is down to how fun or whatever it is and it's not that that is an important but there needs to be more. They're also and not overlook the stuff that really matters so. I know like as a take personally like i will start to like ass more of the questions that leads to like some of the things that you said actually do matter more in terms of growth mindset and loyalty and all that stuff that you just can't get from a dating app so i think just knowledge is power essentially with what really matters. Yeah i think just putting it all in perspective as someone who is in a relationship. This is all very applicable to me as well. 'cause sometimes i guess so bogged down with the immediate results meyer. We going in this direction. Why are we making this happen. And then i have to step back and think in thirty forty years would any of this matter no raleigh with night and i really liked how you said you and scott just kept dating and i feel like that's how dating should be you just right choosing to be with each other so when we encounter these situations where you're like i just feel like this person's making it hard for us to keep going. There is an issue with that. I think we can dig a little deeper instead of making excuses for nam relationship with the other person and i think like in a in a true healthy relationship. It's two people choosing each other. Saw one trying to convince the other person to get back on this train so we really just have to be more intuitive with that kind of situation so i appreciate that reminder because you know sometimes we get off the train where like the like what what is it that i really want and then you start making up stories in your head for me for me back in the dating scene to.

01:25:19 - 01:30:11

It's like when things are hard at the beginning like that is like you know that's what it's supposed to be easy. Essentially like if things are so difficult at the beginning what's it gonna look like when someone's like l. or like when they're serious stuff going on so i think this like big picture thinking of like do i really wanna be with someone that makes it so difficult like you were saying you remember like i always think of your bob. I don't know. I always think of covid like your was like. Is this really what you want to be doing. A relationship like convincing someone the whole time that like they must do all the all the things you want them to do. And i think like from what you said logan. It's like stuff it just it. It's an indicator of difficulties in the future. Which you know is really not. It's not the life partner. Yeah i love so much of what you said and i just want to talk about the nuance of oil. You were saying about you know scott and i just kept eating and i love the way you said it would just be kept choosing today and there's a chapter in the book called aside don't slide and so often people they just ship escalator. And they just say oh. I guess we've been dating for awhile. Let's move in. I guess we've been moving in to get. Is we live together. Let's get married and they're not really stopping saying like. Are you the right person for me. Is this the life that i wanna build do. We have the same vision of the future. And so taking a step back and saying let's decide to the next stage instead of just sliding into it. That's so powerful and if people do that more at every stage of the relationship whether it's the dt are or the move in or deciding to get engaged people are gonna wind up in relationships that actually suit them just sliding into the relationship that they happen to be in. I'm just can we just for anybody. Listening to this. Just rewind that whole thing what logan just said because it's a good reminder for life in general we're constantly making decisions for our lives on a minute by minute basis so let's make those conscious decisions instead of just letting life pass by and sliding into what could possibly happen next. You have control of your life. This is way beyond just your love life to absolutely well thank you for summarizing that it's great you know i wrote this book. I put it onto the universe. Some people have read it. You guys have had a chance to look at it and it's wonderful. Well i you yeah. I'm so excited. Tell us more about where people can get it. Because i loved loved loved the book. And i think all the dateable assists will definitely love it as well. Yeah thank you sir. So it's available on amazon. You can get it in kindle format you can get the audio book which i read and if he liked the sound of my voice you can get it if you didn't like the sound of my voice. Don't get the audio book. And it's also at most indie bookstores. There's something called india-bound bound if you search how to not die alone it'll tell you the local bookstore near you. That has it and people can connect with me on my website. It's logan yuri dot com. There's a really cool quiz there. The three tendencies quiz which helps identify getting blind spots and they can follow me on instagram. At logan eerie. All right. we'll link all of this in our show notes and definitely get a copy of logan's book and by a few to give gift your friends. I think it's sort of like dating bible. I feel like. I sends the dateable book club coming on. So your copy while the dream. Thank you so much for having me and as a regular. I can't wait for our next event or podcast according together regular vip hall of fame you and for listeners. You like more awesome guest. yes like logan. Please give us a good rating in apple podcasts. A really helps us again. Legitimize what we do but also proved that we are here to serve. You were trying to deliver information. That will really help you in your search for love and logan is one of the key players in that so apple podcasts readings. Really help you think of it. This way you're indirectly helping your love life by giving us a good rating outcasts. Good karma area and the more people listen to dateable better the dating ecosystem in the best rate in review five stars. Please share it. With a friend or your. I love this. Get more people dateable in the ecosystem. Thank you so much again logan. All right we're going to wrap up this episode. Stay days all the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcast love at frolic dot media slash podcast to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at a podcast tag. An any post with the hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us at all those then head over to our website dateable podcasts. Dot com. there. You'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted experts he you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums r- also downloadable for free.

01:30:11 - 01:33:01

On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable. And thanks for staying all the way to the end for the audio sample of the dukes heist by eric. got ridley. miss khloe. Winchester burst through the door of her. Family's sprawling residents in semi fashionable zlatan followed closely behind by her sister toamasina. Crowley's pulse raced with excitement his arrogance. The duke of frosty disapproval. Didn't have a chance. Unable to keep her exuberance to herself. She yelled out. I have news about the painting in a more respectable household. A young lady might expect sincere for being so vulgar as to shout. even within the confines of one's own home such young lady might also be rebuked for dawning trouser suit sterling about westminster under an assumed identity. Khloe was grateful every single day not to have such limitations roguish brother graham appeared at the top of the marble stairs delight and disbelief route across his handsome face. He was used to being the one with shocking news. To share does stunned about come up to the planning parlor at once are ring fatih exchanging grins khloe and tommy dash. Stop the mobile stairs. They grey cotton trousers allowing them to take the steps to. It's a time in seconds. They joined graham in the planning paula. The communal private sitting room the six siblings used for plotting their strategems and tommy tossed their matching beaver hats onto the long walnut and berl table in the center of the sound dampened room. Tommy rubbed a hand over her short brown hair causing it to spring up a tool angles. Graham moved a pile of scandal sheets from the table to the map case to make room for refreshments tommy. Ingraham launched themselves into their favorite needlepoint armchairs between two large windows outfitted with heavy calico curtains of ruby gold. Khloe was far too excited to sit instead. She paced the black slate floor which still contained traces of chalk from the last planning session. She paused before the unlit fireplace and lifted her chin for as long as she could remember to. Paintings had always hung above the white marble mantle. One of them had been missing for the last eight months but it wouldn't remain missing for much longer.