S12E19: Hacking Human Connection w/ Vanessa Van Edwards

00:00:01 - 00:05:01

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another episode of dateable all about modern dating where we eagerly dig into the whys of people's behavior and this episode in particular is really digging into the wise people's behavior and how you can make that connection through hacking people's behavior and understanding. Why people do the things they do and people say what they say. I love ed are guest today. Is vanessa van edwards with someone that you eight. I've wanted for a very long time. And she's like the ultimate like her whole her whole existence and company and books and everything she's put out is all about. The science of people in her book is actually called captain. We have it right. Hopefully i'm hoping that this is how long we've been tried to get her on the podcast. I have the paper. I'm not even the kindle so it's the science of succeeding with people and all the stuff that we're going to talk about on this whole episode ensure the episode all of it. I love this stuff because it gives you kind of like those inner workings psyche. That like people are studying that the average person may be totally oblivious. To in knowledge is power and this type of stuff like helps in all facets of life. It's not just dating. And i have a confession. I'm so glad we had her on the show. Before i went to this wedding over the weekend. It is my first many more scale social event the last over year and a half i guess and it was with a bunch of people. I didn't know. I close friend from whom i met in beijing invited me but her friends are all friends that i've never met because her on her new friend since moving back to the states so i really had to come out of my introverted shell for this event and i didn't realize how much energy at took to just strike up a conversation in line. Introduce myself to the people on my table. I underestimated how much effort i needed to make. And i'm so glad that. I had her voice in my head for a lot of those conversations because i was like okay for this one. I don't to say anything. I just need to show interest. Just not show good posture. Show that i'm interested in this conversation. That's all i need to do. But it takes a lot out of you after a year of cocooning yourself and non meeting new people god. I'm really glad you brought that up. Because i think even the people that are like the most extroverted. We've been in like a weird social environment this last year. We're out of practice. I think if you've been in the saudi word you've at least got. It's a virtual practice but i think there is a definite real transition happening and i feel like this weekend. Okay so we are releasing this episode. We're doing the charlotte couple days earlier. June fifteen is like the big california reno day at. I saw the best tiktok that was like. Should we take the stain like. Is this going to just like this is going to be what's happening. Yeah but i feel like this weekend. I know it was like a little before the actual official opening but i think everyone has in their head like okay. It's company. I feel like this weekend. Went from like zero eighty four. I was diag on sunday. I was so freaking tired like exhausted. I think just everyone wanted to do stuff. I would say maybe it wasn't zero two one eighty but it was like thirty two one eighty because i feel like even social activities. I've been at have been like. Let's go to outdoor dining. Lets you know very chill and this weekend like i went to a house party with about fifty people ed's it was super fun but it was it was primarily outside still which i am still loving like. I'm just glad that like san francisco. I mean i think all of california's keeping this billick all the unborn dining and all the stuff is staying. But i will give a out to zach whose party. It was a long friend of ours and his girlfriend who i bat. Who is like. I recognized your voice. Listen to the no no his his girlfriend zak yes he does yes. I'll giving him a her because she's like. I recognized your voice because we listened to the podcast together. I was like. I loved that like the two of them have listened to episodes before the girlfriend. I thought you meant the actual birthday boy's girlfriend you.

00:05:03 - 00:10:02

Yes so we have actually. There's a lot of connections to this group of the podcast. We had the birthday boy. He was our when we did a live show way back to the day. He was dateable. Dj j. riles detail rows. So one day when you make it big were brigadier log of the roach. Fifty people is very daunting. My flight was completely full. I could only sit in the middle seat. The airport was completely full. That was a lot for me. But i think maybe if you saw fifty people that you kinda knew or were familiar. I think that would make me feel better but then new people. I don't the thought of that. Just really people at it. No i don't know. I don't feel like by social exists like my social skills. I don't feel that rusty who may have felt like this is always something that's been more natural to be the things that aren't natural to me. I'm not like saying above other stuff but like socializing is always like platonic. Socializing is always comfort actually to me for me not for awkward. It was super fun. Glad that like. I was able to socialize. It didn't feel like i mean. San francisco is actually. One of san francisco and seattle are the first two cities to reach like herd immunity in terms of like number of seattle to san francisco. I knew several. Oh san francisco's at like eighty percent or something. So yeah i mean i feel like it was kind of like one of those things that i'm like i'm just gonna rod with it. I was Honestly as outside like ninety percent of the night anyways so i really didn't feel like that bad and he had like a big place. It's very spread out. It was funny though. Because i feel like people. They're like no like no that. I do the podcast and people be like. Oh julie she has this sex podcast or another recipe. Like come meet julie. She has this romance podcasts. So all is like how you interpret it which was like this is actually kind of funny hearing like how people explain it. A sex podcast. We've heard that a few different times. I kind of wish we had a sex pineau. Really describe it but it was just funny like the extremes like mean it was all in the same of course but it like right basically like what is it. That's interesting to that specific person exactly exactly. And that's how they package in their head. That's good to know though that. Because i was in seattle. So it's good to know that we were both very safe city. I do love hearing couples. Listen together though. That made me so happy like i obviously like meeting people that like me because of the podcast already. That's always a nice thing. Like i really like your girlfriend. Obviously you're like. I listened to the podcast but i always like when couples listen together. Because i think it's like a really good way to bring up topics that you may not ever torture So true i. I absolutely realized that and i think a lot of couples. Think that this this podcast because it says dateable. That's not for them. But don't forget you never stop dating. You're in a relationship and this weekend. I had the pleasure of meeting my boyfriend's cousin who also listened to the podcasts. Nice and it's a different perspective when he's related to the boyfriend of the hosts boyfriend of the host who talks about the boyfriend every once in a while so he has like more relative perspective on it like kind of like when your relatives linden so we kind of forget that there are all kinds of people listening all the time and we It's okay it's not going to censor us any any way but it. It is always a little bit surprising when you don't expect. Oh listening so literally like last week. What am i just talked about pegging for like an hour. We like who knows who's listening right now. I think you just have to get over it. Like i've learned that i'm just like i need to just get over. It ought even think about it. Yeah i mean end of the day is like we're creating this for ourselves and we love this content and we love the people who listen to this content so we just assume anybody who's listening is supporting whatever topics we're talking to everything. Everything is on the table and nothing is off limits. There was something that was interesting at this wedding. That i wanted to text you about julie but i was middle wedding so it would have been really rude this speeches and the sister of the bride who is also the matron of gave the speech as she says something that is still making me think and i love to get your thoughts on it and a love to get all of you listening right now your thoughts on this show so dms. Tell us your thoughts. She says something along the lines of that. She's been married twice and she said one thing i've learned from my marriages is that you always put your partner. I love everybody else. Above your friends above your coworkers.

00:10:02 - 00:15:08

Above your work above your parents above your family above everyone else and it kind of the groom got quiet and her words simmered a little bit and i couldn't gauge the reaction from the other people in the room but for me i had to think about that a little bit. I understand prioritizing your partner but do you believe that for a relationship to be healthy. You prioritize your partner above family and friends who was that aesthetic this deep philosophical question. You a but this is so fascinating. It's funny that like the reu went silent on it. Because i see what she's saying on some capacity like i feel like if something made my partner uncomfortable. I'd wanna prioritize that above everything else. But where i'm torn is that i think you do need balanced to in to be a good partner and to like not get resentful of each other and i don't know if it's maybe it's still putting them above that to some degree but i don't think you can like like one hundred percent of your time because like i just don't think people will grow as individuals either league you would just like morph into the same person. I don't know it's like how do you define priority. That's what i think maybe is the question. And you like deflecting. The question with another question. The answer to but i think like priority to me maybe I don't know it's like i. On one side. I agree with her and then another side. I wanna say like there. Was this graphic once. It circulated in our facebook group. That was like my is a priority but also by friends and family our priority and career. All the stop in. It's not like they're not a priority cause something else is a priority. So i didn't answer. I didn't answer. Because i honestly don't know i'm still wrapping my head around it. Yeah wasn't expecting a definitive answer from you. Because i also had these internal conflicts of thinking. If i'm ever put in a position where i had to prioritize my family or my partner than i'm in the wrong relationship. I should have felt that way. I never i hope. I'm never put into that position. But i can also see a scenario something as rudimentary as birthdays. Let's say my father's birthday fell on the same day as my partner's birthday Yeah what do you do what do you do. We who do you celebrate with. And i hope in an ideal world we can celebrate together but when both people wanted you to prioritize or birthdays would he do and i i think about that again. I hope nobody ever puts me into in that position. But if you are put into that position does that mean. The relationship is not headed in the right direction. Or is it true. I love to hear my from my friends who've been married for a long time is a true. You just constantly prioritize your partner. And that's what makes a long lasting relationship i will. You're more thoughts on it. I've also thought about this with like location. Had to move because the partners like they've had no choice. Break up or be with this person at booth like that was the choice and they chose to be with this person and move to somewhere that was less desirable for them and they had openly was like i would never move here. At a zillion years of it wasn't for my partner. Yeah and i've been torn with that too. Because i'm like on one side. I want to believe that like my partner would make me happy. No matter where i was. Then i think about like i get just simple pleasure of just being able to like walk to a coffee shop if i was in some random suburban town where i couldn't do that like i don. I feel like on a day to day. I wouldn't be happy. And i would like build resentment up so i don't know it's like such a hard one but i would also never wanna say i wouldn't do it because i think like the right person comes along like you don't want to just throw that away either. Side be open to it but it is one of those things like i think until you're in these situations it's almost hard to light. Say how you'd react to it and there's a lot of factors right. Yeah and even though you know. I've been with my partner for three years. Now it's been a while we're not married so i feel like i don't in some fucked up way. I don't really feel like. I need to prioritize more relationship before my family. Let's say because. I feel like i don't know maybe a once. You establish yourself as a family once you have kids then you become a family cohort yourself bound till then i don't. It's not really family to me yet. Maybe that's really fucked up to think about no is your more traditional and placing that value on marriage or starting a family like to me. That's just that's what a family is. So maybe i need to rethink this and just think about like what does the prioritization mean. Because i think it does happen in relationships and it is a point of contention for a lot of marriages because people don't know how they're prioritizing their partners so we love to hear from our listeners.

00:15:08 - 00:20:00

What do you all think. Have you had this experience. And what is your vice to laissez newlyweds. Do you constantly prioritize your partner above everybody else. Some dying today okay. How did the speech like end for people. Like yes i get it or was it still that like kind of dead air. It was a little bit awkward. Najran alive it was a beautiful speech as she has some really funny moments about her sister but in the end she lets raise a glass for the couple and we raise him. We cheered like silence. You know so. I do wonder because we were also sitting at a table with across from this couple. Who had been married before and were dating each other. I saw one of them kind of nodding and the other one. I don't know so i think everyone was reflecting. Bashes rain relationships to it kind of ended. Not that i. I would say it was a bad speech. It was a it was a thought provoking speech. And i think a lot of people went home probably had conversations. Yeah i mean kind of spoiler alert but our season finale which is next week. Yeah i cannot believe that were already done with season twelve. How possibly. I don't know but we have john kim a the angry therapist and he his whole booklet. We talk about is called on purpose. And it's basically even if you're a interrelationship his whole thing is like you need to prioritize yourself like your chance of self. That's where i struggle with this because it's like on some side. I see prioritize your relationship. But i think if that's all you prioritize that becomes unhealthy to like. There's there's a balance with all of it and there's so many cultural nuances to this. I know my asian brothers and sisters would totally. You know what i'm talking about. When i say there's so much guilt that comes with prioritizing myself above my family there's so much guilt saying i'm prioritizing above my family so i don't know maybe it's just so deeply ingrained in me to think i would never deprioritize my family under anybody else. I just can not imagine that. But i've also seen a lot of my family friends and my relatives. Their marriages fail because they prioritize family and totally their their partner fell by the wayside and came became something of a consequence versus someone that you really cut it. And i and i've seen this and julie you and i have talked about this. There are so many chinese couples. I know who who are married but lived long distance so they don't live in the same city together and they do this for years sometimes cades because they're prioritizing the family they're prioritizing making money they're prioritizing taking care of their their parents what happens to that relationship right so i think it's just very nuanced. I don't think it's like a one size. Fits all and i agree that the risk of letting someone go to the wayside is very real. Because you're so only self-focused we are only like hanging out with your friends or family and like excluding your partner that's gonna be a recipe for failure to yes. That's not a good thing because people when they think they're prioritizing they have to deprioritize say else. It's like a sacrifice but it's not that way. So maybe that's maybe that's the answer that goes to that like graphic we are talking about. It's like my partner is a priority. But i have other priorities to. You're still like a priority. But this saying it should be the number one priority number one priority. I don't weird right so hard. It's so hard because mountings. I love that we're just giving all this food for thought. All these people that are like you know. I feel like this term has been throwing around lately that maybe think fota of data again i dislike. We're adding like another massive turmoil in people's mind right this probably that are like i'm barely surviving the pandemic or getting out of it myself. Now i need to like make sure that this person is like my whole world priority. Fode out what a funny a funny word beer of dating again. How many of you have photo just raise your imaginary hand for us. Because we wanted it can feel like yeah. I feel like this is becoming a thing. Like i've heard this on multiple in multiple calls like it came up on idea like a like while i was on another podcast. I'm going to be on this week have did. It's kind of like clubhouse but it's called fishbowl. They call it. When read in clubhouse had a baby it becomes. We did one. With courtney k who is a long-term how you and i met. We got introduced. By courtney cheese are batch maker.

00:20:00 - 00:25:01

Data coach francis. She wanted us to be part of this. And i ended up. Just doing it because you a have. The conflict in fota came up a lot like this came up is like and apparently this was like their most trafficked room that they've ever had in history. There is like thousands of people there which i wasn't even aware of so. If you're coming in for fishbowl. Welcome were happy to have you. But i think photo was like a very real thing. And that's why we get got a lot of tune in because it was like all about dating post pandemic and answering questions yet because there's so many layers to it. There's the social layer do not. There is the covid layer and then on top of that there is the romance layer and to navigate all of those three layers together. I can totally understand why someone would just want to crawl back into a home like lemme corn team court. It's funny because i wasn't expecting this like i was expecting like. Oh everyone would be like dying today. The gaia right because they've been more conscious about it maybe not dating as much as they want state or you know be if they were super Conservative with cova maybe not really going out and seeing anyone so you think that people would like jump at the chance. But i think it's going to the zero to one eighty like you kinda need to take those baby steps and i think that's okay like if you're feeling photo yourself like maybe it's just easing back in platonic lee with people or doing things. That aren't as much pressure right away. If you're feeling that way yeah baby steps. I think the part with ota i can totally see at fota comes from. Just it's really fun at the concept is really fun. So you're like gearing up yes date again but when push comes to shove you're thinking about logistically how to do all of this and then the energy have to spend the effort. I totally understand where the r. can come from the reluctancy so listen to yourself. Listen to your intuition. If you are fearing it and your body is kind of you know trying to like push against it. Maybe you're just not ready yet. Baby steps yes. So i was actually on another podcast. The california ground breaking news. That was all about again. David post pandemic and there was also a professor at uc davis. That had an attraction lab who i think we should try to get on the podcast because he had very interesting insights in like one of the things he said that stuck out to me. Was the reason like dating. Apps obviously have been rising through the pandemic because it's been the one way to like meet people in dane like no one's going out and meeting people organically and he said that a lot of people have felt frustrated by the day the gaps. Maybe more than even before because that's been like the whole basis of every romantic interaction and they've been like putting more weight potentially on like if someone flakes from conversation or doesn't match back where in the past you kind of balance that with like going to parties are going out and about having more of these meet cute experiences in addition to just stating apps so it was seen as like one vehicle not the only vehicle so i feel like i'm hoping that people can like if they're feeling overwhelmed. Maybe it's getting yourself back out there and more social settings and kinda ease again that way in an hopefully Like eventually getting back today. The apps too. Because i still believe firmly that there could way to meet people. It just might not have to be like the only way if that's causing you a lot of like stress and anguish. Yeah and photos can leave lead to fota actual photo. Julius canter bring up got weedy to a text from a dez. Gotta pull it up. It was so great and nez is one of our favourite pass. Gas probably remember her from across ages. It was data ghosting and all the lakes. We had a nezar banda and as is in her seventies center thirties. And she is a firecracker. I just i was like getting out by boyfriend and i was getting these tax that i was just showing you buy videos of dancing. And they're like she is just a firecracker. I'm like if i could be like this. Like if i could be like this in my seventies. I'd be in great shape right if i could be like that in my fifties i. She is energy that i do in my thirties. Just put that out there. But she was say she group texted you a and i. She's like girls laughing so hard you can't imagine because in the newsletter we put something about fota and she's brazilian. She basically said fota in. Brazilian portuguese is slaying to screw or to fuck up every time. And i'm like. Oh my god i love this. This whole shade is just killing me. I love it. She's the best. I love this so opposite of layer. So now my photo. What's this has sexy ring to do. You have photo or do you want to photo.

00:25:02 - 00:30:01

You're like what type of are you talking about. You are idle. Thank you for being part of our lives. She's she's truly the best but what really is what a funny tax fota like photo to screw really bad. That's great too funny lovett of ending. You're like on an airplane during this whole thing too. Yeah i got off the plane later about fota conversation. You mean okay. Right up my alley since we're sex podcast. Yeah exactly how how you interpret it so speak. Fota introverts all the likes. I think we should do our question of the day exist something that comes up a lot and i think it's a really good transition of you know like we're getting. We're all getting back out there. June fifteenth. If you're listening now it is like in the future as recording. This podcast intro. But shoot fifteen leases the california date other states probably of either already reopened or have been reopened. If you're in florida for like the whole pandemic yeah no judgment but info dying. This whole time in florida florida for florida. That's the verge teacher in all seriousness. Here's our question because things open up. We get this question quite a bit especially from people who are naturally introverted or or who become increasingly more interested in like myself so at this person summed it up the best as things open up. How can i as an introvert meet people out in the wild. I think by the nature of this question. You can feel the type of the fear of conversation the fear of approaching strangers. That comes up. And i get that gives me a lot of anxiety to think about. That's what i experience this past weekend at the wedding. I think the I will we need to do as introverts or s self labeled introverts is to stop calling yourself an introvert the more you call yourself an introvert. That more introverted. You become so just say. I have introverted tendencies but i like people. That's that's who you are. That's why you wanna meet people. Meeting people out in the wild is exactly that you're not meeting people on a pedestal. You're not meeting goddesses. you're not meeting. You're not meeting warriors. You're meeting other people so there at the same level. They're all humans and you're approaching them as humans so just think about the wild are meeting people who are exactly the same issue. They're humans my biggest learning from some of my earlier days of hanging out with my friends were extroverted is when you go into a room or a bar worrying event and you want to meet new people always latch yourself to the most extroverted person in the finance person. Because that person's gonna love you. They want to take you on under their wings and they want to introduce you to other people. Let them be that vehicle for conversation. Oh my god. I found this quote. It came up on instagram. The other day that was like basically like as an issue vert. I either have no friends. Or i got adopted by an extrovert. That liked it. Isn't that the truth. it's so true though. It's so funny. I would never think of you as an introvert and a zillion years. Because you're so outgoing and i think a lot of times people misconstrue what it means to be an introvert because some of it is just how you recharge so i love this tip of like. Are you still a people person even if you recharged by being alone. That doesn't mean that you can't socialize with people. But i do know people that are that. Just maybe actually get more energized when they're with people but they are not people that have wide social circles because they don't value that is much like they value like deep small connections. But i think depending on who you are plus the best way to get back out there to meet. People is through friends of friends. You think that. Like i mean i. I don't know if i'm an introvert extrovert. I waver back and forth like every day more than i think an ambivert. That's like the middle. Right of like getting energy skew still more extrovert. Probably yeah probably. I don't know you and i. I need more and more downtime. As i get older for sure that fell aging you less of an. I guess like i think some of it is that like even meeting. People totally random. I fear that. Like i never just walk up to some random person in start talking to them like. That's very daunting to even someone that considers them an extrovert. So i think first of all know that your kite avant level playing fields everyone there. It's something that especially as dating apps of gotten more and more popular. It's something we do less and less than society. So i would say. Start with friends of friends.

00:30:01 - 00:35:00

And maybe that's going to a party again. I was so happy to go to party this weekend of it like done this two years on year. Okay give her your. It was almost two years. But i think some of it is like maybe you don't need to dive into the party of fifty to one hundred and that's cool with you then by all means do it but i think that's obviously the best odds right is to like meet people. Zeal have some connection. It won't be totally random. It's so much easier to strike up random conversations with people at a party than at a random place where you've no connection to them but even if you're not the type of person that either has friends the throw parties or you don't have a wide network even like saying like to your friend be like hey. Do you have like another person that you can bring in start to like have the ripple effects because then they'll have people and that's how you grow your social network and that's how you can start meeting more and more people and i think people off also sometimes go with this intention of meeting someone of whatever like sex or gender. They're attracted to doesn't need to be that it can just be like baby steps again like just need another human being because you never know who they know. Yes exactly so. If you're an introvert totally get it. I get it. I feel like people suck the energy out of me so instead of you putting yourself out there to get your energy sucked out of you. Just find that person one of their extroverted friends who who thrives on people's energy and they can in give you the people and the energy that you need and if you're out in the wild just find the loudest person the room or the person who loves attention. That person would just love to take you around the room and help you meet people that how our friendship started where you my sherpa introduce me to people people but yeah i think in friendships to you. You see that dynamic you see the one. That's more outgoing and you see the other one. That's a little bit more like gotta peel back. The onion layers a little bit more. And that's the best part of humans as a were also different but we complement each other so mine. The person the room compliments you so much romantic interest to someone who complements your energy and then have them be or sherpa love it while for the record. Everyone was asking where you were. Better talk see. I'm the type of extra in that way in a hypothetical way in my mind i was hypothetically conversing with everyone having a great time at this fifty person party but in reality at home much pajamas ski. Yes love it. Let's do a couple of announcements and our sponsors. And then we're going to get into some of the stuff that vanessa teachers which is going to be really fun. We're going to give it to some of the actual human connection hacks so quick messages that we have we are going to. I mean this thursday. We have corey. Rosen from your your story. Well told we are going to be doing our dateable after show. That's part of the sounding board. He's going to be helping us all. Come out of our shells thing to do. If you a photo right now is to come to this event. It's key as i've done many of his classes in let me tell you. This is a steel the price that we charge. The saudi board is an absolute steel. We are lucky to have friends at high places with this which isn't very nice with our network all of our guests. This is a steel. Like they are so good to us in that regard and i think one of the things that is going to be super fun. It's gonna be very interactive to be flexing those social muscles that a lot of us have been you know haven't been actively using as much and i think it's going to really help whether that story is just conversation on a date or maybe it's your with a partner you've run out of things to say because it's kovin and there has a ton of things happening like that will help get that amunition going or even the difficult stuff like why. Are you still single. Wyandotte morris why have you never had a relationship like those questions you fear someone asking you. He's going to help you come with frequent awesome story to tell your story I can't wait for this one. It's going to be really interactive. Julie said and also helps you reshape your thinking because you might think your life is mundane or you might think your life is not that interesting. But he's to help you realize everybody's life can be really exciting unique as long as you storyteller and the way that he's going to teach you so join that joined the sounding board dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board for all the information Definitely get on it because we keep these small so we can have that personal attention and then the other announcement is that we will be having up fried livestream really to be having ryen who's one of our moderators in hosts and his boyfriend. Who he met during the pandemic matt they are going to lead. I love that. He brought matt into the group again. We are all couples.

00:35:00 - 00:40:10

Once you beat your person keep them dateable. The data together frigging to the facebook group. All the could stop that. Were my heart hearing this all the time but they are going to lead a livestream and we are also inviting other members of the community that are in lgbtq plus community to also speak we. Brian clark are most dateable winners that he's down and we have. We've put up a post today for anyone to join because we'd love diversity within the community as well to be represented so i'm excited. We're gonna talk about. Just you know the history of bit of pride like why are we celebrating pride for the tire about. Why should straight people get behind this. And when it says china twenty. Yes we're gonna do this. June twenty third five thirty m. p. s. eight thirty pm. Ese our standard times that we typically do these livestreams. That's going to be so much fun. I can't wait to just see see ryan and that be just cute together. Love it so yeah. If you're not in the facebook group this is your out to join love at the time of corona by the dateable. Podcasts can search on facebook. We just have you give a little blurb so we know you're a real person and then of course if you want to take things up a notch the sounding board. That's where the corey event is going to be. That's where the happy hours happen. That's where all these people are starting to become super close friends and we had a dc and sf. Beat up and new york. I think there is like multiple meet ups this week. Yelm seattle this week. Seattle's favor audio washington. Dc yup. it's starting it's starting people. It is starting call. Let's take another quick second to talk about. Our sponsors are historical romances. Your thing yeah. Then you will love the undercover duke by sabrina jeffries. 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Now in this card game your goals to win the heart of the noble princess who is looking for an ideal partner and confidant to help with her royal duties when she one day assumes the throne. Your goal is to enlist the characters in the castle to deliver your love letter while keeping other players letters away. It's trickier than a sounds. Powerful cards lead to early gains. But make you a target and rely on weaker. Cards for too long in your letter may be tossed in the fire. I find it to be a fun and nice. Twenty minute mental break during the day. This two to six player card game fits in your pocket so you can take it with you anywhere. Love letters appropriate for ages ten and up and is available for eleven ninety nine through zemun games. You can find it at target your local game store or directly through zeman's web store cool so before we get into vanessa. We had a little shorter. Time with vanessa than we typically like. Because she's now very in demand has a lot of engagement so we would take any time. We could get but a little shorter than are typical interviews. so we wanted to do a little trivia. I so you actually have these questions. This is very ryan real. But i'm actually getting this out of captivate. Which is vanessa's book. So anyone on youtube conceive. 'send rumor has it been working on a new book. Write this mix site very exciting. So this whole episode. We're really talking about p q which is interpersonal intelligence. And it's really again like like. How do you use all the tools at your disposal to understand human. So you can relate in the best way possible. So we'll be going into what he q means a lot more in the actual episode too. But it's really about your people skills. Essential is what it's boiled down to. Okay so the first question. I have for you. A how much of our personality comes from our genes so option a very little are personality is mostly formed by how we're raised. Be thirty five percent to fifty percent see fifty five percent to seventy five percent. D a allot are. Personality is mostly formed by our genetics in dna timely question. I watched this movie called soul on the plane. It's pixar animated film in its about how the soul and the how we get our personalities in what what happens obviously the animated film but in the movie they talk about how your personalities basically something like assigned to you.

00:40:10 - 00:45:02

It's not really in your genes. So i'm going to say it's a not zero from your genes. Okay well pick service wrong it. I learned pixar but it was be thirty. Five hundred fifty percents wasn't totally wrong. You just went like zero zero. There's gonna be some parts that are genetically passed out but what that means is that basically fifty percent is up to you and that could be your environment that could be your own self work all of that type of stuff. How interesting okay. No personality we pass down through the genes guy so some of it. There's a little bit a little bit so some nature some as an archer basically right. Yeah okay good question. So the next trivia question is the best way to show someone you care about them is to a tell them all the reasons they are awesome. Be get them a gift. See do their to do list for them. Z all of the above e. It's different for each person. How easy it is. Love languages so easy. It's different for each for each person it is. I thought that was a that was an easy question for you us. I think it's an important one in like you know not all our listeners might know about lovely guages and even if you do that you know a i think it's a fascinating topic because everyone is different. In what makes you feel loved in cherish. All that might not be. What is someone else. So i think i know really especially as you're dating someone. Understanding that is super important and even like for friendship or other relationships too. It's very important. Yes yes okay. Our brains are most active when we are chatting about a crush. Be the latest juicy gossip. See ourselves d the latest thriller. Ooh that's a good one. Okay if for all of our listeners. Right now i want you to screen shot this right now and d antagonise on instagram with your answer. So can you give us a give us the choices again. Julie yep are crush the latest juicy gossip ourselves the latest thriller. Okay everybody got your answer. Here's my answer. I think gossip juicy gossip you're correct. it's ourselves. Everyone likes rains active. When we talk about ourselves yes. I was like maybe i should check the at certain. Make sure that's correct. Yeah no know. It is okay this correct. I think that is like honestly. I think that if you are ever unsure of how to win i don't win people over but like you know like connect with someone. It's asking them questions about themselves. The people's like pet peeves is when you just talk at them like those people are the most infuriating to me or someone that never asks you anything like a quick and easy way to make yourself. Likable is to just ask how someone is doing or them selling. That's interesting to them. That's fascinating but also shows that when we talk about ourselves our brains are working overtime to construct story which is why corey rosen's valuable for his workshop about creating your story. That was great great. Okay this is a good that leads into them. The best way to get someone on the same page is you is to a tell them a story be pay them a compliment. C make them laugh or d. Say something surprising to get on the same page as you. I say to make them laugh. Nope the thought the answer is tell them a story which is like i love that and i can totally see why because it's like you're inexperienced together essentially and then you can also see how they react like see what's interest. I think you could quickly see someone sense of humor. Some of their values like depending on how they react to the story. So julie you're telling me the next time. I go in for salary negotiation. I should be like listened. Boss hold on. Let me tell you this story. I so this weekend. I did this. Actually you know what that my work. That's how you small talk and then you're like can i have a million dollars. Okay try that out and get back a good answer okay. And then the very last one that i'll do is i'm ready. Making someone feel blank. Is the best way to improve their mood. A flattered be attractive see valued deep powerful see valued. Everybody wants to be seen. You came out ahead. You a goodness i think.

00:45:02 - 00:50:04

All of this is so fascinating. It's a great lead into our discussion with vanessa. Because it's really just understanding. Some of the seven what i like about her and other body language experts that are out. There is that if someone's doing something that's not necessarily in line with what you think. It doesn't mean that like they hate you or they don't like you or whatever it's an opportunity to reset either zone in on that a little more attend to that need or ask questions i think. That's what she really stresses in this. It's a q. It's not the whole answer and i think that is kind of like the the line that i want to also put out there is. I think it's good to know this stuff because knowledge is power but we also don't wanna get in our heads and be like over like every last move that someone's doing all that like that could go very stray. So it's it's using these cues in as permission to ask more israeli i think the the big takeaway i really love that. And it's also a great way to be present in the moment and all. Be meditating on your the person's body movements and the signals they're sending out so that eventually just becomes part of your learning young deposits. Be like what we're her legs at. How many times she blink at me just becomes part of your cognitive workflow and ill just benefit all of us to better understand each other so we cannot wait to get into this episode. I think it's time it is time. Let's hear it from fidanza. Let's get into this discussion with the expert herself. Vanessa van edwards. She's thirty six years old currently lives in austin. She's been there for two years originally from la she's married. She's the founder and lead investigator people. She is the best selling author of captivate. The science of succeeding with people. Vanessa is renowned for teaching science backed people skills to audiences around the world including south by southwest. Mit and see. Yes just to name a few nessa. How are you. We've been trying to get you since twenty seventeen. We were looking back the rock messages. That's how long has been my goodness. I'm honored i'm honored thank. You said it'd be here. Yeah i have your paperback copy and there's a note from twenty seventeen captivate which is too funny. But we're super excited to have you. So many of the things from the book have stayed with us all these years later so thank goodness i wrote it. I wrote it for you. Then you wrote it for us first and then it got super popular and then we didn't feel special office. Obviously you know it's so funny writing. I'm an awkward person. I'm a recovering awkward person. And it's so funny like writing. A book is such a solo endeavour right like i'm alone time. I'm researching and the book became so successful and then people wanted to talk to me and i was like. Oh no what have i done. We were actually going to kick off. We love the fact that you call yourself a recovering. Awkward person So i think that's such a funny thing to start with as someone on ice will get right into it like as someone that doesn't have natural people skills like how did you learn to hack human behavior as you call it. Yeah well you know. It's funny. I read all every book that was ever written about communication. I feel like i had read it. I mean everything from how to win friends and influence people to. I don't know if you remember the ridiculous book tung fu oh yeah i went like old school like every communication was in library. I read it. And i noticed that there was a pattern that most of the books felt like they were written by extroverts and and i love extroverts i find them so magnetic and inspiring and i watched them across the room and i hide from them. And they're just they're amazing but if you are not an extrovert. It's very hard to learn people skills from an extrovert. And i wanted to find a people skills book by an ambivert by someone who likes people. I like people. But i need lots of recharge time. I need you know hacks and skills. I need to be able to find my spots and my people in my triggers and so that was really. The whole goal was to try to write something that wasn't from a natural extrovert. But it's still worth learning. But it just took a little bit extra energy so like when you say hack human behavior. What does that entail. So i i love when well-meaning authors give advice like be yourself be more authentic and i'm like that sounds great but i have no idea how to do that and so one thing i wished for was i wanted to try to teach or learn soft skills using hard skills methods.

00:50:04 - 00:55:00

I wondered okay with computer programming. You know they hack programming. They have formula codes and blueprints and frameworks. I was like. I want those things for people and so when i say hack behavior i mean can we try and i know humans are not computers but can we try to look humans as if we could make rules for ourselves that help us not contain us formulas that we can work on the give confidence you know. I'm not a very confident person. So i have to work on my confidence all the time and one secret way to get confidence i found was having a formula. Because it's sort of made me not doubt myself as much and so as i began to research these formulas and i realized they are working for me. They work for a couple of friends. Then i started publishing them. And i realized oh there are other awkward people. And that's when. I thought you know what maybe there's something to this and that's sort of the start of hacking human behavior. I feel like we always talk about. I q in q being you. Talk about p q. What is this exactly and like. Why is it so important with data. Now there is actually a difference so iq is your technical smarts. You're you're on the waiting process academic information and like learning information e. q. Is how you process emotional for information including your own emotional information. So it's reading the emotions of others in being able to process your own emotions. P q is a little bit of a newer term did not create it. But it's where. I live which is understanding people information social information being able to process body language cues social cues and then being able to both decoded end code them so not just i can. I can see that face. i saw. They processed fear. And i know how to address it. So it's recognizing this the social information and then being able to deliver the correct social response so it's a little bit it's a know is very internal whereas p q is actually both internal and external interesting. So now we get why you're so into body languish exa- so much said style. I say the trifecta right. If you want to be really successful you master. All three god. Yeah cool. We'll we'll definitely have to add that one to our lingo. I know you know. I feel like that stood out all this time later is body language like could you talk a lot of body language and how you can decode people better through body language. We'd love to get into it with you. Maybe starting with like facial expressions are can you kind of tell us what cues you look for like how do you use body language and facial expressions to kind of hack that behavior well facial expressions are like a superpower and i apologize ahead of time because once you learn facial expressions you can never unlearn them so for anyone who's listening. What did you learn these. You'll start seeing them everywhere. And i apologize. I also think you should listen to this with your best friend and your partner and your parents because you're going to be calling out all their facial expressions from here on out or just look in the mirror exactly so the the most important one. I think to recognize right off. The bat is fear micro expression so it used to be believed that facial expressions were learned that we observe them from our parents but actually a lot of our facial expressions are coded within our dna again code right one of my favorite words and so something is coded. It means that we can study it the universality to it and so fear across cultures across genders across. We all make this expression to stay safe if you wanna try this with me. It's when our eyelids widens. The whites of our is show above our pupils. So the whites rise show and then raise. Your eyebrows are of your forehead. They'll go and then we usually open our mouth and take an air. Yeah and if you keep that expression you'll begin to feel a little unnerved a little bit anxious especially you. Try to widen your lids that whites of your eyes. So yeah yeah yeah exactly exactly so the funny thing about this is this keeps us safe right if we are in a dangerous environment or were threatened by someone our brain our body wants to take an as much as we can so we widener is to see our environment to see what are threats are to see an escape route and our mouth opens to take an oxygen in case we have to yell for help or run away so that face for all humans is the safest face we can make now. I know this sounds crazy for like dating or business. Actually you see this expression all the time and social and businesses. We all the time if you ask someone a question. They don't know the answer to they will often flash in facts in a business setting if you say to someone. Hey like do you know anything about this new client and someone flashes the whites of their eyes. That's the easiest way is you just talk. And they don't know or if you ask an introvert and personal question whites. There is a really funny pop culture example. Did you see that viral video of the texas lawyer.

00:55:00 - 01:00:02

Who had the cat filter. Yeah ok okay. Everyone go really watch the video you will see as he's looking for what to do about this filter even in the cat image. His is in the fear maker expression. Yeah and that is because the technology is making him nervous so if you ask an introvert overly personal question if you ask someone a question that they have a lie about they will often flash fear so if you say you know tell me about your ex and they flash very you know even if verbal is like oh yeah yeah. We're on good terms when they flash fear it you you know the tap something nerve wracking so for me. Facial expressions are like reading beyond the words in powerful fears behavior. Would you say people with too much. Bo- talks are making people really confused when reading facial so bo talks. There's actually research on. Potok so botox inhibits the facial feedback loop now. This isn't always a bad thing. So when when we're angry let's talk about the anger micro expression. Anger is when you pull your eyebrows down into vertical lines. Now if you've had botox you can't do that where you can't you literally cannot throw your house. Now that they've found actually reduces the amount of anger a person feels oh Which is kind of amazing. So they're even. I've heard through the grapevine that anger management classes are now recommending it to people who know me some so glad i got talks. I'm like i've been the happiest there you go up. So what other facial expressions like. I'm thinking like what are their negative ones. Could you watch out for like if you're on a d. in you're trying to read if someone's into because we hear all the time of people that go on a date they think it went wonderfully and then they never hear from this person again totally. Okay so this is the same. It's funny because getting thinking drake went well and getting not getting a callback are being ghosted is the same as doing a sales call or a pitch or presentation thinking it well on having a nocco well seem skills that if you can read visual expressions. It's almost like it's tipping you off to what potentially went wrong. The biggest negative one is actually content. And it's not affected by botox which is very helpful. So contempt is a one-sided mouth raise to just try raising up one side of your mouth a little smirk yup yet so that one sided mouth raise. If you hold it you'll begin to feel better than scornful negative. I wouldn't hold it for too long to hold the for long. And that's because it's a dangerous expression because it's often mistaken for like half happiness or you know. Maybe irony or sarcasm but actually so negative. That researcher dr john goodman He's a marriage and family counseling seattle. He researched thousands of married couples and he found that. The greatest predictor of divorce was that in the early interviews of couple. One member of the couple showed contempt towards the other hand. If that was the case with ninety three point six percent accuracy that couple would get divorced. Wow that is insane insane. Oh from movement here yet. And so what i would say is to negative ones. You really wanna look out on a date specifically our fear. Did you just tap into something that makes them anxious or nervous confused but second is contempt because contempt is the only emotion that doesn't go away. Severe comes in a burst and people call themselves down. Happiness comes in a burst. Then people get back to normal anger people get frustrated and they get calm not content. Contempt is if someone feels contemptuous of something and that isn't addressed it sits in it festers so if you were to say something like a passion statement our personal statement i love to travel or i'm vegan or i'm really passionate about dogs and you see content on the person's face because they're trying to show half happiness. You are in trouble. You want to make sure that that is not important to you. Because they feel contemptuous of something in net. You just said something you just said. Is it that they secretly don't like it and that they're trying to pretend that they do that. Why that facial expression has made it could be that or could be could be that. They're secretly sort of like a hate dogs who talks. I know who that is but someone says hey dogs or it could be. They've had a bad experience with dogs and they feel contemptuous of themselves. We don't know always what's happening inside but we do know that something. Negative came up and not warrants further investigation. So if i was on a date and someone said and i said I love to travel and they showed contents. I would immediately talked to them and say. Do you love to travel. Have you traveled much. When was less traveled. Maybe they made content because they haven't been able to travel on the pandemic you. It could be that. It's not actually the thing that they haven't been able to do it. So that's when you wanna go into investigation mode and and that's what microbes are there. Red flags their flags that say. Look at me asking me a question about this. Got it so it doesn't necessarily mean that they like don't like you like the relationship is doomed.

01:00:02 - 01:05:07

It's just whatever was said in that moment if it continues to fester i'm trying to like related back to the statement you made earlier about john cottman like how does that connect to like relationships falling apart. It's because it's a seed of dislike or a seed of difference and if that difference worked out gust compromise and respected like we can have different. You might hate travel. I might like travel and but if we have an understanding about that if we've said you'll travel with your girlfriends and i'm going to be the home body in dr goldman found these couples. Someone would say i statement like. I'm not very organized. And the other person would sort of flash contempt and that wasn't addressed and so over time it would sit and it would stir and it would create disrespect hatred and disdain. so that's why facial expressions are like a superpower in early relationship during dating because it can help you a give a peek into where your future communication issues might be. That's really helpful to learn. Because i had to look up. Contempt really means. I've never really thought about the definition. And the definition is the feeling that a person or thing is beneath consideration. Worthless desert worn. And it's you think about someone being condescending and dismissive and i really think that plants a seed for disrespect and as we all know in relationships when you disrespect your partner. You're doomed so over. Yes yes that's why. I am so happy about it because i think that. That's why don't we want to. We're all going to have communication issues. That's okay we're all we're going to have differences that's good differences in a relationship or good as long as you're really crystal clear on what they are. I think that's the setting of a really beautiful relationship. So let's take a really quick break from us. Riveting discussion with vanessa to hear a few quick messages. This episode is sponsored by. 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Check out all the amazing shoes bags and masks available right now at rotties dot com slash dateable. That's our own t. h. y. s. dot com slash dat b. l. e. style and sustainability meet decreed your new favorites head to rotties dot com slash dateable. Today let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships have recently decided that you want to make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently dating scene. Maybe you've gone on one too. Many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one on one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating. Scher us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcasts dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo. What about like body language. Like how how you stand relative to someone else. I've heard like if you point your feet towards that means that you like are into that. What is your take any truth to that. There is some truth to that. So think about this so when you like something or when you're interested in something you want to move towards it you wanna get closer to it you want to listen to it. You wanna hear you wanna see it right like if you see a delicious piece of cake across the room body you want to smell you wanna taste it you wanna lick it. You want to be first in line to get it and so the same kind of thing happens with people that we like with topics that we liked and so we've noticed that and research. There's some research of this as well that when there's a person in the room that we're most interested now this could be a crush but this could be the boss. This could be someone who holds the keys to your tower. Could be someone. You're intrigued by your body will sort of give you away and your toes will begin to orient towards them. Because that's where you wanna move. I have noticed and researching this for my next book. Which i'm very excited about that. Like when people are getting ready to leave a party their body will start to angle towards the door like literacy getting ready to go towards.

01:05:07 - 01:10:03

When someone's really hungry their body will slowly orient towards the buffet and so this is a great thing because one it can help you see intention. If someone's all the sudden breaks away from you with their their body begins to angle towards something it's something no other disengaged slightly and you have a choice. You can say hey. Do you want to grab some food together. Grab a plate or you can say on the ramp it up. I'm going to be more engaging right. Like i'm going to get them back. So you have a choice with that. Cue all body. Language think is the same way as it gives you choices gives you more information and more information is empowering for someone like music awkward person who doubts myself constantly to have some extra communication tools in my tool belt makes me feel like okay. I think they is disengaged. Great the perfect opportunity to like go to the bathroom and reconnect later. Or whatever right. Vanessa do you prioritize which part of the body is more important. Because i always hear like oh if there if heard knees are pointed towards you she must be interested but what if her torsos turned away from you is just mixed signals so some some experts say that the feet are the windows to the soul like the lower part of the body. We don't think about it as much rate so they sort of our intuition our instinct. I like i like that. I think that's a that's a cool idea. But i like to pay attention to the purposeful. One's a little bit more. So if someone's angled their torso towards me and their head towards me in their tune in their shoulders. They are trying to connect with me. No if they're fear puna the other way maybe they kind of have to go to the bathroom but are so engaged. That trying. So i would rather i like to look at the facial expressions i movement mouth behavior hand gestures and torso more the feet and legs if i if i see great other thing is like like just from a purely logistical standpoint. Looking at someone's feed is kind of hard like pure logistics. You're in a great date with someone you're getting or you're you're speeding and you're looking at someone's feet. The whole weird like head is under the table at a restaurant. Your there's this person likes fear. Yeah and you take your back right now. Not so. I feel like another one that i think is really important. Is eye contact. Like i noticed if someone is giving me eye contact. I noticed when they're really dialed in. But i've also had a friend that i've called out on this little not even a romantic partner in. It's just the way she is like. How do you like no weather like mine. Or it's just you know they're not even they're oblivious to what they're doing kind of thing so it's funny i whenever i teach presentations i have usually i teach a slide that talks about the science behind eye contact and i always start with a little multiple choice question. So we'll we'll do it together. Everyone listening okay in western cultures so this is a little different little different cultures. But let's let's take western cultures. What amount of the conversation should you be making so in a one to one conversation. What percent of the time should you be. Engaging in i contact is it a thirty percent be fifty percent of the time see sixty five percent of the time or d. Ninety percent of the time. See i would say ninety is. Let's see that that's a d. So i would say d okay. Thanks to the correct. The answer is c seat. So here's what's funny about that. Every single answer gets hands raised So some people raise their head a thirty percent. So you are sir. It's fifty percent so you will sir. It's hot me something very interesting that yes i get. The research shows sixty five percent. But when you actually ask thousands and thousands of people everyone has different ideas of appropriate tact This in a way. I think gives you permission that if you're in between thirty and ninety percent great if you could narrow it a little bit more to like fifty to seventy perfect right so i would say you don't have to drive yourself crazy with this but you do want to try to make eye contact for enough time where you're at least looking at their facial expressions. You're noticing their color. You're noticing their movement. You don't have to be locked eyes with them. In fact ninety percent you begin to get a little invasive look at walls much whoa so that should give people permission. They don't have to make eye contact a lot of the time but you want to know this their expressions. That's kind of the rule of them so that hope that makes you feel better. That's also interesting too. Because like i think i make eye contact a lot which is why i value it a lot. But you're basically saying that it can vary so it may not really be an indicator of interest. Like if you think that the person isn't doing this much. I think that under thirty percent is an indicator of interest. Does that make sense like if it goes under thirty percent you're actually missing the chemical of oxytocin so when we make eye contact we produce oxytocin. We'll if you're not making enough you're not producing oxytocin. Which means that. If someone's not wanting the oxytocin there is a lack of interest there.

01:10:03 - 01:15:00

So does that mean if you're making like ninety percent you're just like so obsessed with each other it's invasive you know it's like it's wasn't let let's put it this way. What we do right we kiss. We make ninety percent eye contact. Yeah right so it's just sliding scale of intimacy. That isn't bad if you're vibing right if you're vibing and like yeah i want you to kiss me. Greets light up that scale right like all the way up. But if you're in the in a loud bar you're not sure sometimes percent can be like whoa. This is coming on too strong It's all contextual. That makes sense to but in always in between thirty ninety right like we never want to go below or above. That's kind of my range so someone's like consistently removing there is from you. That's a bad sign szekely. If their own looking at your feet than they've either heard something weird about body language. Are there waiting. You say that the first five minutes is really important. We meeting someone new making that first impression. So what are some quick tips you can give to our listeners for making a very good first impression in those first five minutes so i really like studying first impressions. I think that I put a lot of pressure on myself to make every answer. Amazing you know. When i was dating when i was doing pitches interviews i was like a have to have every answer be perfect by by language has to be perfect for the entire time but then actually realize looking the research. That's actually not true. There's actually good news. It's really just the first few seconds like if you can make the i see seconds great non verbally. It sets you up for a really good interaction. No matter what you say or do which is kind of nice so i would say in the first seconds and when we break this down. There's a couple of key elements took it first impression but the number one is openness in the sense of. We don't like when things blocked our bodies. We don't like when someone is crossing their arms or holding sitting in front of their chest. We don't like when someone doesn't reach their hands out towards us. Because i feel like feels like they're being closed off so you want to be as open as possible. Mutual contact smiling at the same time showing hand gestures and making visible hands reaching out for very purposeful nonverbal initiation of touch. That could be a handshake. That could be a hug that could be cheek kissed. That could be a hi fi. That could be a fist-bump. I like all those things. Just be very clear like the most awkward thing that you can do and interaction is be unsure of what kind of touch you wanna give. Well that makes it more awkwardly fidel cove. It i'm like. I don't know if someone gave me like a fist high-grade alley exactly even especially now. I'm super clear. What the kind of touch. I would like so if i feel comfortable. Someone i'm like i'm coming in for a hug and i will literally opened my eyes wide as i'm coming in for a hug if i want if i wanna fist-bump i hold up my fists like five feet away to show like niamh coming in for a fist bump cheek kiss which i don't usually do but if it's my european friends. Eileen with my face they literally show them. I'm coming that clarity is it makes someone feel like. Oh wow. this person knows what they want. I know what they want. And we're warm we're competent. We're on the same page. Well that's probably why historically it will be interesting to see what happens with dating but people would always greet with a hug like on a first date a lot of times because it's like setting up for openness. I could see why that became a thing. I'm still kinda into that. And i actually think that it went in the predating phase. It's actually a great question to be like. Hey are you comfortable hugging when we watch either. I actually think that's like a very respectful thing to ask. And that way like when you go in for the hug it can be even warmer. Because you've already commissioned it right so five minutes like i know that's like the first like thirty seconds or whatever like. Is there anything you can do to really make fat master impression. I've i've changed my opinion on this over the years. So you'll have to forgive me if i've given different vice indifferent youtube videos but as i've tried this way different people on watch my students try it. I've noticed that if you start with something to sparking like two different and unique it throws people You know so if you're like. Hey angel texas baby. People are like like it's weird. It's like two different. So i actually think that your i like five. Words out of your mouth should be pretty casual. Hey how's it going. Hey new positive neutral. The second ten words is where you can get a little more creative so like. I think that the best thing you can do whether it's video call or in-person meeting is like hey it's good to see you. Oh my gosh. This is amazing. You look great. What a beautiful restaurant would amazing whether that's when you can go until the next bit more positive a little bit more different. I wonder if that plies to dating apps to when it comes to messaging that. I i get thrown off when the first message is a little too in your face. Maybe just a simple. Hey i notice your profile. How are you and then go into the more unique opener i agree.

01:15:01 - 01:20:01

I think that it works dating apps just like in person. It's like it's like we have to know. Someone's not a weirdo. But we still want to be interesting right. I always say positive like if you can use words like good great amazing wonderful. In those first ten words i do think it changes the nature of the interaction. But it doesn't have to be. What a wonderful earing you're wearing. It doesn't have to be that it can be like this is such a great day. It's so great to see you know there's like research that people love talking about themselves so like a way to kind of get to their heart to ask about them. Like is there any emotion you should pull on in those initial questions. Positive positive positive like the wet everyone is looking for is a breath of fresh air. They might not say that but like what we really want. Is we catch positively. So their research shows that are motions are very contagious. So if you start with like what's good what's good in the world right now and that is how i approach all my meetings with my video calls. I'm thinking with good was what's been good. I can bring up wizard weather. Is there something genuinely good. That puts me in different kind of space. And when you come with that energy it's very contagious. And we remember people who are positive we do not like it when someone's like oh the weather so terrible as my. Gosh i've been so busy. Oh my god. It was such a horrible traffic tonight. We don't like that because we don't want to catch it right right. Oh that's interesting. Gotta be realistic but positive exactly cold. This has been such a busy conversation. We're lucky to have vanessa for the short time that we did. I know that you're very busy. So we're very happy to get at least a short time with you. But i'd love to kind of transition as into some takeaways. Think one thing for me that came to mind is not i think. The part around the eye contact really resonated with me that everyone has different thresholds so while there are certain indicators of interest it's not always like reflective necessarily of the true interest based on your perception like it's all relative to how you view it and i think while it's really important to look at body language. What i really took away from this is like it's another reason to ask why the whole part around contempt. It's not necessarily if you see that facial expression that your whole relationship is going down the drain. But it's a reason to ask why and what's happening. So i think like even in the eye contact example. If you see someone like not making that the same level that you would necessarily. It's an opportunity to ask if something's distracting them or whatever it may be. It just opened up that dialog by paying attention to these nonverbal cues yeah. The nonverbal cues are so important. That was my takeaways. You're nonverbal communication is just as important as your verbal communication so when we're on these dates and so many of us feel stressed and pressure to fill the space with words. Sometimes we can just do it with our bodies. We learned our feet towards the person on a date with. Maybe we can turn our square shoulders off to them and just take a beat to show them that. You are showing interest with your body exactly. It's also a good reminder that we need to be just more present with our partners and on these states so we can even be aware of the body language. Just even you know. Vanessa said hold your gaze for long enough that you can. You can identify their. I colored that was like. I can't tell you how many days i've been on where i can't recall there. I color 'cause i probably was thinking too much about. What should i say nags. And my coming off okay. I didn't even take the chance the time to look at the person date with so i think it's just. It reminds us that we need to be more present when we're in the presence of other people absolutely. I think that. I've i try to think back to like wet. I've noticed people's body language that i really don't notice it but i think what you made that comment around people by default aren't going to feel close to like what they want to feel like they're pointing directions and all that i think that is kind of a reminder. Would you see those signs too. That maybe they're onto something good. Yeah oh this is so interesting. Is there like any final takeaway would leave like our audience of like was kind of like the tips to like ensure that you are understanding behavior like what would be kind of a broad level takeaway you would have. I think the biggest thing that i think it's my life's work to share this message so hopefully i won't get too mushy on you for the moment but really if i can spread one idea onto the world's and it's very important for people who want to meet their people is there are multiple definitions of charisma. I think a lot of us think we have to be the bubbly happy extrovert all the time. And that's not true.

01:20:01 - 01:25:06

There are many different kinds of charisma. You can be quiet contemplative introvert. You can be compassionate empathetic nurturer. You can be a warm friendly likeable breath of fresh air. You can be the impressive funny magnetic person. Those are all different kinds of charismatic. And they're all correct there all right we all those people and so don't feel like you have to show up or pretend to fake it till you make it. I do not believe in vacantly make it. I think you have a natural version of your own charisma. That is wonderful. And and powerful. And that will attract your person. So i would say. Don't try to take it to you. Don't try to pretend to be an extrovert instead. Find your natural strength. Find your natural social strengths figure out where your most charismatic on your own and try to find people who like you for that. That's great advice that be yourself but to your fullest potential exactly. And that's for the hacks cuphead as if you need some hacks along the way amazing i could not find my natural charisma without those hacks which is why. I made a career out of sharing them. Can you share with people how they can find you if they want to look into these hacks a little more of course so. I put out a youtube video every week. And we go deep. We go in depth. And he's made videos in there all all up for free. So i'm vanessa van edwards on youtube. And then if you want to kind of. Have the plan like if you're more of a a systematic learner than i would be honored if you would check out captivate read audible book and try to be a little funny sometimes so hopefully. That's another if your listener. It's available wherever books are sold as walls on audible and then of course my website. People dot com. We have all of our courses online content and our Email pedia our like downloadable. Pdf awesome rate will include all of that in our show notes. And one last question for you is. Do you think all awkward people know that they're awkward. Definitely not no not in fact. It's funny. I think that the sometimes the most awkward people can be the most brilliant people. I my the people that i loved to help. The most are my brilliant talented above average people there. So they're cheever's they're smart. They've had degrees. They've killed it in their career and finally there's something that happens with their social skills catch up with them where they realized that they achieved something. Amazing but no-one invites him to lunch right here that they have a brilliant idea or piece of technology or invention but they can't raise funding more. They are super career successful. But can't find their soulmate. And so that. I think actually the most awkward people tend to be the most brilliant which means they don't always see that all you need is a little bit of help on the social side and that would unlock all their brilliance But they don't realize it. Just need those hacks. That's the nasa van edwards. Everyone thank you so much three years in the making so glad. We made this happen way for years in the making yes twenty twenty one twenty this count you thank you so much for having me and thanks everyone for giving us your time in letting me share this mission. Appreciate it awesome. Thanks vanessa and for everyone listening right now. A really benefits us. Angie you to leave us a review apple podcasts. Because the more reviews we get the more five stars we get. The even better of our content is and we can get awesome guests such as vanessa. We are very appreciative. When you leave a review and five stars it only takes you a second and it leaves us a lifetime of hard zine butterflies in our stomach. So thank you so much for anyone who's already done that And intrude dateable fashion. We're going to wrap this up day. She goes the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag as an any post with hashtag. Stay dateable and trust. We look at all those post then head over to our website. Dateable podcasts dot com. There you'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium wiser use dissect analyze offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums for also downloadable for free on spotify apple. Podcasts google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable discovery.

01:25:06 - 01:25:52

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