S12E17: What's your Communication Style? w/ Sandy Weiner

00:00:01 - 00:05:02

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating our primary goal on the show is to get to the bottom of why people do the things they do and why people say the things that they say including your self. I've got my lovely co host with me julie. Hey this episode all about communication which is the core of it right. The crux of everything with why people do in say the things that they do often times. You don't know until you ask. That has been a a hard lesson to learn. I cannot count. How many people. I know as adults who are actually good at communicating. I really can't on the. I'm still getting there but my parents definitely knock communicators. I think okay. I think the two of us have made huge strides. Because i do think communication is you have to really put a lot of work into it in attractive just happened overnight. I think i was really bad. Communication for a long time. And i think a lotta people like me. Think because we're extroverted. We talk all the time. We're good at communication but that is not always the case. Just because you're good at talking. Does that mean that you're good at communicating and always at all like. Why don't we learn this growing up as a skill like we learn about communication like in terms of like advertising and persuasion but not communicating with the each other like. Why yeah i kinda think back to. When i was in third grade and i had a fight with my best friend soo-kyung that was her name and nobody could help me figure it like how to get in her good graces. How to how to become friends with her again my teachers couldn't figure it out. I just cried every day. She would ignore me. And i don't even remember why we were fighting in the first place but i wish instead of learning all the other shit that we learned the third grade which i i. Don't remember what we were learning. I wish sat me down. It was like this is how you talk to your best friend. When you have a conflict. I think i was just so conflict avoided for so many years because i quoted conflict to ending something. You've had conflict. Everything was going to end. It actually took me the alexandra soliva dr alexandra salva. We had our had her. What was it seasoned. Seven like marriage one a one we had her on and i remember her saying something that stuck with me is like conflict is inevitable in a relationship because you are. You're thinking one way in someone else's thinking a different way your docking to think the exact same way therefore conflict is going to happen and it doesn't need to be a fight. It doesn't need to be drama. It could be a conversation. And i think for me. That was like something that was just like. It was a definite aha moment because i think growing up. I didn't see that type of communication and conflict is just a terrible word. A does sounds a little bit aggressive. If we said challenge it might be a different way of looking at it evolving. Your relationship may be a way to look at it. I have the same thought as you. Julie i feel like conflict means fight and fight me and of something and i don't want to rock the boat. I wish just things would just stay the way they are. And i don't need to address my needs and i to address my partner's needs but everything eventually explodes. That's a universe if you don't communicate your needs if you don't communicate in general someone explodes in a never ends well. I think the best compliment. I've ever got it to date though is that With my ex like that. I've mentioned on this podcast like what we first stated. I was definitely conflict. Avoid it like. I didn't wanna say anything to rock the boat. I made his knees. Were more important than my needs. And then when we revisited the relationship over the pandemic. I mean this is like what five years of dateable later. he's like. Oh my god. You're like a totally different person. But at in a good way like he like was like i like that. You're just being so much more direct and the hiding it. And i think that has given me permission now in my new relationship to to just be very proactive with communication. And not be afraid that it's gonna like things you know is at the end of the day you d to like. I think communication to be is like one of the top thing needs.

00:05:02 - 00:10:06

I have in a relationship. And if i can't communicate with someone i need to know that and i gotta give major props to julie because julie has been the one who has helped me become more directed. My communication to in recent years has before we recording. She's multiple times. She's been like ua. Something i just want to get off my chest. Let's just talk about it address it now and in the beginning admittedly it was scary. Because i'm like. Oh this is a confrontation when i do wrong at. Are we having a fight. But the way julie communicates is very direct. Here's what i saw. This is what happened. This is how it made me feel. Can we talk about why. This is making me. Feel this way. And i've really appreciated that contract a communication because i'm glad it takes me out of my comfort zone that it makes me. It makes me uncomfortable. I should make me uncomfortable. Because it's forcing me to change and forcing me to address the situation. I i have to give. Major props julia. That's how she speaks to her partners. I can see that. There's just really no. There's no guessing what julie like it. You know she'll tell you how she truly feels so that you ever feel like you're in the dark and i think that's what makes a really valuable partner of i really appreciate. That's like the dow. The do best thing i've ever heard but i think like if i think our relationship earlier even our relationship in the first couple of years both of us like skirted around things that i think for sure you have definitely become more direct as well. I see it with you and your partner. But also you and i as partners too. I love that our partners will always know that they have a second partner to deal with are. Let's see this partnership is different because we runs first and foremost and then we became business partners and confronting. Your friends is not a thing that i'm accustomed to. I've never wanted a friend or sat down to talk about something certainly. I've had those feelings but never got the mountain. So i really appreciate that. I've progressed to this point. I think there is something with friends though that you like. There's something that feels different than significant others about bringing stuff up and actually read that book big friendship by the co host. The do call your girlfriend. Oh and they. I mean they're they're definitely in a more of a similar boat than you and i is there like business partners and friends. They went to therapy together like they talk about the two of them in therapy together rate idea and society tells you wouldn't do that with friends. I have ended friendships with people. Before i had a friend i was in her wedding. And we don't talk anymore. And that's kinda sad actually and like is you know it's like it's on one side. It's like sometimes it's inevitable. Kinda like a break-up sometimes people will just grow apart. It is what it is but we didn't try. We didn't try to make it work in my. I'm the one that shut down like. I'll admit it like i. Totally shut down with it in. That sucks like looking back on it. That really sucks. And i don't ever want to do that with you or romantic partners or any of my friends again. I a thousand percent agree with us. So other than our podcast. you know. My other favorite podcast is called on your brain. Yes comoro get her. Our and i can't say her last name but she had a whole episode about toxic people in your life and the the way she phrase it was this she said there are no toxic people in your life you make them toxic in your mind in you find that you like someone makes you feel a certain way that's negative. Or get you riled up. Spend more time with them to work through that as opposed to just labeling them as toxic. It's the easiest thing to do is know we hear it. All those like instagram influencers. Always like get rid of toxic people in your life. Just cancel them. It's not like that. People can't be cancelled and i totally agree with our people aren't toxic. You make them toxic in your mind or at least prove out your point at least try to have the conversations but then if they don't wanna do it that's another story but if you're not trying like how i know i was like talking to a friend the other night about this about like Someone that they care deeply on. And they're like he'd never seems to be in a relationship because as soon as it gets difficult he bolts and. I think a lot of us do that especially at culture. It's like others someone else around the corner. But the alexandra solomon said this you're gonna have conflicts with everyone. It might be the same type of conflict. Something you nevertheless gonna come up and evidently so i feel like our listeners are getting it energized by and be like okay. Bring the conflict. What do i do now. We need the the tools and the skill set to have these conversations and is what this episode is all about. We've got sandy weiner who is a communication specialist. She also has a podcast. You'll hear all about her miss episode but she will give you the tools of addressing conflict and working through that just a phenomenal.

00:10:06 - 00:15:01

And she's trained non violent communication and she actually talks about her own personal life too. I love what experts will go into their own because she admits she wasn't great communication in her marriage and that was a big part of why it ended. And i think sometimes you of have to hit rock bottom with certain things to like. Make that conscious change of being. Like i need to actually really focus on communication like this is the problem. This is something. I didn't learn in school. This is something. I didn't have good role models for like. I need to be proactive in figuring out right and we should forgive ourselves. Nobody is born a good communicator. The default is were all bad. Communicators is up to us to work our way up to good communicators. So you're at the default if you don't think communicator. It's okay your way up. You got this. You got all six number. One ed's there yeah step one and then this is like the week of communication for us. I didn't realize this kind of like a by accident thing that happened but for anyone. That's been with us for bay. You've heard us mention the sounding board our community our premium community where we have events but we also give a bonus audio every month and it's really like the audio and you. I feel so bullish about this. These are the types of things that really make dateable like you can fix up your profile all the want. Not saying you shouldn't do it. But at the core of it it's like the communication piece like that is so important so we actually have a bonus episode this month. That's all about communicating. Your needs kind of taking this a step further in that. And there's going to be a discussion group next thursday so thursday june temps. Whoa already. oh. My god i june. It's like that. That isn't you're right when i was saying it out loud and i'm like no and yes. We we release it episode. The first week of the month holy the third it will be out and then we do the follow up a week later while it's fresh and people have just love these discussions because they're like where else can i freaking talk about in everyone's like i get it and i'm supporting you and i'm here with you like there aren't really that many places you can do stuff like this. No no other than therapy. This therapy cheaper than therapy. But she i speaking of therapy. I feel like there was such an overwhelming response to last week's episode with most dateable brian clark so giving you a shoutout there also also what address a really unfortunate thing. That apple is changing some ways that they bring out towards so. I'm really hoping this doesn't continue. But apparently we heard this actually from frolic on our podcast network. Some other podcasters reported this also. Is that usually apple. Podcast like immediately shoes. Just the episode yet. For whatever reason this week it's been like a twenty four hour delay so some of you were like. Hey where's the episode to be assured that it went out. It should be there now so if you missed it hopefully this one will not have that same lag time but definitely make sure to subscribe. Because we've heard that. Or at least i saw even on my feed that like in the subscribed one it was there but in the general search on the app it wasn't so make sure you subscribe in then if it's not for whatever reason you can always turn to spotify personally spotify. I i personally use. Because i listened to everything else there but it went out right away there. So hopefully this will get resolved. Yes so this is a psa to which out of apple podcast episode is brought to you by spotify but it show. He's got that would be the best transition it's true. Sometimes you don't see that episodes right away but we are very on time with our episodes and when we push them out so you don't see that night disco on spotify. try just google or whatever. Go on our website go to iheart any other platform and you should be able to this. I think this is gonna get resolved. Apple did like a major overhaul of its podcast app. Which is super exciting. We're definitely still pro apple so don't undertake dot. We know a lot of you. Listen that way and keep keep those reviews cover. That's the second psa. but we. if it's not there. I think definitely make sure you're subscribed i think that's step number one. Yes yes and let's get those episodes out there julie. Do you remember this mug. You've seen this mug queen of freaking Fucking everything freaking. Did you just self-censor. She's like queen of done. Everything queen of fucking everything. I feel like i could get interpreted to.

00:15:01 - 00:20:01

Yeah and i remember this because the first time you saw this mug. You're like i wanted to take a picture of four dateable for some of our for summer. Promos stuff and i was like julie. This has another meaning. I feel like you could be the queen of fucking everything or you could be the queen fucking crazy. I do not remember this mug at all but if you lose again. I like blake. This whole interaction. Pull it out for me again. Whenever i drink out of. I think of you like is there anything or queen king. Everything emerge slogan also. Yeah well talk about communication mishap really me and by that but it is back toward the sounding. Board is not too late. If you want to get access to our latest audio series all about communicating your needs just go to able podcasts dot com slash sounding board yup. That's all levels of access. Equal opportunity equal opportunity so time to go to our dating advice segment where we try to dole out the best dating advice. We can possibly give from our five years of doing this. Podcast and talking to thousands of daters we've collected all day and here's a question for all of us so listeners. Try to wait in on this to the question is how do i communicate to someone that i'm really interested in them without sounding. Desperate the d. Word i know got the v. Were that got d. Were got word got so many alphabet they all have different beating. Also we're gonna lose track and we're like what was that word again. What word is injured. Yup without sounding desperate. So i think the word desperate from one's own insecurity I think what you may think sounds desperate. Probably doesn't sound desperate to the other person. It may sound like flattery or compliment. But i think communicating your interest is all about it coming from your authentic self so not communicating and way like i've seen this wrong calms or reality. Tv shows a grand gesture. It's like. I've really enjoyed spending time with you. And every time that we say goodbye. I can't wait to see you the next time so i just want to let you know that i'm really enjoying our time together. I think that's a very a very authentic way to communicate your leg and for whatever reason so difficult life. Lord i mean that one i think is like the safest one because you're not even really saying that you like the person that much you're saying you joy the time together yes super-safe but for whatever reason it's still all i personally think put it out there like what he wants to lose. I think sometimes people to feel more compelled to give you those comments back in return when they feel like the feeling the same way. They're open to receiving yet but they need that person to kind of show the path and you know what we've learned is not everyone sustainable as you all are because every week there's a large population that is not in shame on them. They should be. But they're not and i think sometimes it might be on you. That's been more evolved to just put it out there. I mean what's the worst that can happen. I think this whole desperate thing like who cares if they think you're desperate like really when you think this. I don't actually think anyone who think you're desperate. I think they might just be like. Oh shoot we're in a different place. Like i'm not feeling what they're feeling but is that really a bad thing. Wouldn't you rather know that than think that like you're in this other. I'm not saying like confess your love for this person on like eight number one but saying you had a good time with them like is not that much the end of the day when you not know i feel like the word desperate comes around win given the situation like this for example if you are constantly rejected by your person that you wanna go on dates with in he or she is like no. I don't wanna see you and then you keep telling them that you want to see them and that you honestly that's desperation because there's no reciprocity there there bright stay. Don't want you back. So that's where desperation comes in but if you're just wanting to tell someone you wanna see them more and you like spending time with them. It can't be that hard and nobody hates hearing that no and i think that will propel it forward. I think the problem with modern dating is everyone is so afraid to say anything that it just becomes the standstill. That everyone's like oh. Is this person interested. They're not interested. I'm not going to be interested. And then what does that get you know. Yeah when both people don't want to say anything nothing is said and that's why y'all complain about messages like hey you up. How's the weather over the weekend. Because nobody's trying to say thank. They're just saying things to say something.

00:20:01 - 00:25:07

And that's where you get to stalemate so if you wanna move your relationship along be that person be courageous step forward and happier person meet you there and if they don't step four with you than they're not the right person for you right. I mean i think it's all about baby steps in reading the room like you a said. Don't keep doing something of summits dock giving you that response but starting with something small. You had a good time okay. Now they're excited to in. You can feel you know when someone's like into it excited. You're making that next play at your like excited to see each other at that point. Then you could say like. I really like you. I really enjoy spending time with you. Like there's so many ways you could just like continuously build on it s so let's make it a challenge for all of y'all who are listening who may be in a situation where you're like. I really want to tell this person. I'm into them. Get your phone out right now. Find their phone number. Texts them this exactly. I've had a really good time getting to know you. I really like spending time with you. And i can't wait for the next time we hang out yet. That's done you're welcome easy. And i still to the wrong person. You're like david set into the dog hammer. You never know. Maybe their doubt within all like low we love mojo to kill him to come back for his next grooming added to your whole contact lists all. Oh shit yeah relax. Yeah text back. Your grandma's like i miss you too. This is a little bit of a tangent. I know you're talking about the what's happening. I tell people tell people that story. I was just thinking that story. Let me drink so it was. I feel like i don't really use what's up all that much but it was when i was doing long distance with my boyfriend in the case. I wasn't whatsapp all the time. And he was literally the only person. I was messaging on their so one day. I get another message from this number. I didn't know and i'm like okay. That's weird but i saw that there were like thirty other people on this group taxed in money enough. What of the people. There was one of our guests so i saw one name come up if i tax but everyone else was just a random number. The guy had leap builds the group. Because you know you can like label groups put it as prospects all the girls were like. Who the fuck is this. That we're like wait. Are we all people that he like. Thinks he's like going out with or something but the irony was because people started saying. Because i'm like i have no idea who this person was. I wasn't dating. Because i had a boyfriend and it turned out like a few people. Were like oh. This is a guy like met up with like four years ago. And i looked like i looked and i saw his photo and it kinda came back to me. I don't think we actually ever even went on a date but we talked on a dating app like four years ago. He like left the chat. Which was the best. He left the chat that apparently a bunch of the girls went out for brunch. That's what the mutual connection. Toby which i think is actually kinda funny because this could be the most ridiculous thing i'm person could do or the most genius thing. One person could do imagine if there was a social experiment where you brought all these people in all these strangers to a room and they had to figure out why they were brought there. Oh that show like are you the one you've ever that we were in somewhere. Yeah i still. I still watch that show when i bring up a reality. Tv show to you a doshi see clown like yob still live in that world. Thank you very much anti-god watching a marathon this week. I'm watching it right now as we're talking to you know okay but i think there should be more than enough to answer this question on you show interest without coming off desperate some well. We're going to get into it but quick announcements. I mean definitely actually we were also on sandy's park right. yes yes. I want to shout that we were on sandy's podcasts. The last i state radio and we were on episode. Four hundred and fifty four sandy as a lot of episodes and it was an insider's look into modern dating with you issue and julie craft check so i'd say a very exciting. You're on youtube right now. You're seeing it if dot go to. You know apple podcasts spotify. it's all there. It's been up for a week now. So it's probably an apple podcasts. There's a there's a sixty two hour delay definitely check that out. And then just other quick announcements love in the time of corona That's our facebook group. That's where you know we've had just really great discussions like every day. I'm just dislike amazed by the different diverse perspectives and opinions in the sounding. Board is always are. That's where the real magic happens. I feel like that's what. I always say to describe it but it really is true because people are like becoming legit friends and we actually practice a lot of the stuff.

00:25:07 - 00:30:01

I think with each other. Like good communication vulnerability like whatever word the v. Were not the d. Were where it is. Another one that could be misconstrued as the communication. I feel like they're all like the clean version at the dirty version of your bug is the same thing. Yeah but they all. I think it's a great place that you can essentially practice these skills so in pm so ingrained in you that when you're out on dates it's just natural. I think that's the place we want to get to. And i think like i really think you a for the two of us part of the reason why we've grown because we talk about this stuff so much it just is become second nature more yes. We're still on that jay. That jurists always a work in progress. Ace journey that matters. That's it exactly. Okay so shall we get into a couple of sponsors. Summer is finally here. And we've been cooped up for so long. I feel like i'm taking every chance i can to be outside and exploring so. Luckily we found clamber shorts from title nine. They're made out of super stretchy abrasion resistant fabric they're basically indestructible and thanks to a wide compu- span and tons of pockets. We'll have pockets. I can wear them all day. Long matter what i get into so i wore mine the other day going from hiking a to a park nick to the beach and then to lake an afternoon of does lounging around on my balcony there so comfy versatile that i didn't have to change i mean they're basically bad ass shorts. We love that title nine was born in the bay area. Just like our show and get this. They've been around for over thirty years so they definitely know what they're doing with everything from innovative. Swim pieces to bottoms. That actually fit every product designed for women seeking out their next adventure right now title. Nines offering our listeners. Ten dollars off and free shipping on orders over one hundred dollars. When you visit title nine dot com slash dateable to title nine dot com slash dateable for ten dollars off and free shipping on your order over a hundred dollars that ti t. l. e. n. i n. e. dot com slash dat ep l. e. This episode is sponsored by pros. I used to think that having soft and healthy hair took way too much maintenance. So i gave up especially when my hair became super frizzy and wavy in my late twenties. Then pros came to the rescue with personalized hair care products. I you take an in-depth hair quiz with interesting questions. Around where you live your diet. And your lifestyle. And i was surprised that they even factored in the l. a. pollution to my personalized formula with over fifty billion formula. Combinations pros can give you a unique blend of ingredients that caters to your every strand and follicle sends you using my personalized pre shampoo. Mask shampoo and conditioner. I've noticed such a freaking difference. My hair feel softer and healthier. Pros is a healthy hair regiment. With your name all over it. Take your free in-depth hair quiz and get fifteen percent off your first order today. Go to pros dot com slash dateable. That's p. r. o. s. e. dot com slash dat ab l. e. for your free in-depth hair quiz and fifteen percent off case. So shall we hear it from sandy. Weiner communication is a part of everyday life when we're born. We communicate verbally and non verbally. And when it comes to human relationships it's arguably the most important thing to keep a relationship alive. I would say yet. We don't learn communication skills in school. You'll get degrees in communication. And there were thrown out in the world and people are like here go communicate. You'll be fine. Where if we do get degrees. It's definitely not like interpersonal communication. Just like you know when teaches you how to communicate a relationships ever in ever sanity think but sanding wieners going to enlighten us with some communication skills and just break down. What communication really is. She is the founder of the last first date and the woman value website says she is an internationally known. Ted ex speaker dating a relationship coach. Women's empowerment coach author and podcast relationship coach. Women's empowerment coach author and podcast host. She's been featured in mind body green psychology today. The good men project. The chicago tribune your tango and the daily buzz. She's the host of to podcasts. The last i eight radio. And the woman value podcast. She's sixty four years old curly lives in stamford connecticut. She's been there for twenty five years originally from atlanta and she's single and actively going on dates high sant deep enough. I'm actually sixty five. Who birthday medicare birthday medicare birthday.

00:30:03 - 00:35:05

When is your birthday. Was that recently april fourteenth. God we've been trying to schedule this for so long. Bet your sixty four when we first grown a whole year a whole year. Well we're so glad that we finally got time with you because this is a long overdue subject that we've been wanting to talk about so for so long so let's just get into. Why do you think relationships can really benefit from communication. Why is communication just such an important part of it. Well like you said it's everything we do not learn how to communicate while at home. Most of us. It's pretty rare to have a family. That's a direct communicators and hind communicators in really tune into our feelings. And we don't even know what feelings are. We don't know what our needs. We don't know anything and i i know that for me. It influenced the choices. I made in dating and the way that i dated the way that i chose a husband. My marriage was filled with a lot of really bad communication and so when i became a coach and got divorced. It was one of the first areas that i focused on. My ex husband had a wake up call at the end of our marriage and went to get help in his communication and yet he studied non violent communication which helped the end of our marriage. The last three years during the separation it helped us to really be peaceful and amicable and talk. It was amazing. So if you don't mind us going into it like how to communication like kind of show up in that relationship ultimately ending it well. Stonewalling was a big one for everybody. Who doesn't know what that is. That's basically when somebody walks away from. Monica conversation shuts the door on you so there was a lot of that i remember trying to have difficult conversations in. He was so conflict averse that we'd be like on walk together. And i'd say i just wanted to talk about what happened in he turn around and walk away from me and just leave me standing. There is one of the one of the hardest times in our marriage we went on a cruise so he was a comedian by the and he was performing on the qe to we. Were taking a five day cruise across the atlantic from new york to england and his parents were on the boat that was a whole other layer of our marriage where his parents were very involved and he would go to them to talk about staff rather than work things out with me so relieving the city and looking at the beautiful sunset over new york city and i say this is so beautiful and he says yes. I wanna share it with my parents and said we're here together. And he left me on the deck as the boat was leaving and that was the beginning of this trip and i actually had a panic attack that night when i went to sleep it was way i panic attack ever and i think we just it. Just everything culminated. I was feeling traps on the boat feeling trapped in my marriage and he chose his parents over meals dislike so i think that happens a lot and people. Just don't have the skills to be able to be in conflict. Will i think the most the times. I felt most anxious in relationships is when the parties weren't communicate like usually when you can just break it down and have a conversation a lot of the stuff that's floating in our head goes away but for whatever reason can be very difficult to have that conversation. I think a lot of it. I know it's something like a skill that i've had actively work on throughout like the last ten years like because it's something that i think a lot of us are afraid to speak up because we don't want to rock the boat or we don't want to like make things bad but in theory like having those conversations could make it a lot better. Yeah and so much is left to assumption this stories. We make up in our heads man. Yeah i see this. All the time. A lot of the coaching. I do is to take apart those stories with women who are making up while he didn't do this so that means that and it's like well. How do you know that. So separating fact from fiction is a big part of of our own process. Communication is on many levels. It's it's how we experience somebody else and the triggers that we have and the and the stories. We make the assumptions. So with there's yours mine and ours in any relationship. There's my stuff like okay. I'm always triggered when something happens. So i need to work that out. Then there's your partners stuff end. There's stuff that gets created between the two of you that needs to be worked out. I had a situation once when i was dating a guy where we were dating for a couple of months and it was a saturday night right before i was launching a new program.

00:35:05 - 00:40:01

And you probably know that when you're in the middle of a launch you're not exactly relaxed and there's so much to do and so i wanted to see him. Saturday told him. I couldn't stay over because i just i knew i needed a full night's sleep and he did not take that well. He took it personally but he didn't talk about it. So this was the first argument. We had where he receded. He he used to send me these cute little text every morning with these league funny little poems and the next day i got nothing and so i waited a little bit and then i wrote him by amiss poem and he wrote back. He started getting into why he was upset. And i said hey listen. Let's talk about this. Tonight will be can talk on the phone. We lived about an hour from each other. So that's another step. It's like don't have tough conversations on text and bring stuff up early on. What do you think is the main cause of a lot of issues in relationships is it. Because i'm hearing two main ones one. Is this idea that we should avoid conflict. I hear couples being proud of the fact that they never fight. And i'm like what is wrong with you. Why do you never mind. Cause people want to avoid conflict and they think that's something to be proud of or is it the issue that we think we are mind readers and were constantly trying to fill in the blank for our partner. Which one do you think is a bigger issue. God's really go hand in hand because when you conflict then you still and then you start making up stories about your partner. Yeah i mean you can't stuff your motions for a long time. People do it for. I mean i would say months years. They implode who get sick but Whenever somebody says to me. I never fight. I always ask. Are they having on communication so back to use sandy. Were you obviously dow. You're you know you talk about communication for all this podcast. But you're talking about your marriage where communication was a big problem like. Did you always view yourself as a good communicator. Were there steps that you took to like practice and fine tune the skill. I thought i was a communicator. I thought i had all these great skills. And i certainly had insight and i was pretty centered i could like look inward when i when there was conflict i could sort of parse out what the issues were but i really didn't know how to name my feelings or my needs. I did not know how to set. I didn't even know really what what all my needs and values were like that. A lot of that came from coaching school. In when i really got clarity around had a had understand my values but the feelings and needs part came during the end of my marriage when the process of non violent communication is the first step is to take out all the judgment in all the stuff that we make up around the person so that they call that the jackal. And when you first triggered by somebody or you feel hurt. You're gonna probably be named jour- you always do this. He'd never do that. Those are always that we sabotage the conversation so we have to look at all that what we would be bringing to the conversation and clear it all away and then we get to clean observation. This happened so let's take the the thing where i didn't sleep over the boyfriend's house and he got upset so he could have said when you didn't sleep at my house i was upset or you didn't sleep. You didn't sleep over saturday night. That's that's the fact right. There's no feelings niece attached to that yet. And then you go through. What was i feeling and you go through a lot of feelings to see. What exactly were you feeling. Because most of us have very small vocabulary around demotions and then we were feeling because a need of ours wasn't men and once we can identify what those two things are we can express ourselves much more clearly and then you can make a request of the person the next time this happens. Would you be willing to do this. Then you have a conversation but you're not accusing you're not name calling it doing all the bad stuff that happens in fighting so from a learning standpoint are there different communication styles that we can break down now so we can attach ourselves to one or the other. I want to say. They're not static. You can be one and you can become another and really what you wanna do is be. The most high functioning communicator. So i created for archetypes. And they're all animals. The first one is the lion or the lioness and that's the assertive communicator and the assertive communicator. Can speak with confidence and clarity She knows her core values.

00:40:01 - 00:45:04

She doesn't play game. She doesn't manipulate and she wants to connect in our she knows how to set clear boundaries with others. And it's a skill set that can be learned than there is these scorpion. Which is the aggressive style and the aggressor is really right or wrong. Thinking always wants to win. She doesn't really feel the effect of her actions and words on other people and she thinks that her opinions needs rights are more important than other people's and She wants to be seen heard and appreciated. But she doesn't know hata she doesn't get valued without putting other people down or being the loudest person in the room. And let's see. The koala is the passive aggressive. This was an interesting is trying to find an animal for the passive aggressive. I never never knew that. Koalas are really passive aggressive. Really yet they look really cuddly and sweet but they can suddenly lash out. Violent movies That archetype it's that kind hunt just too nice and really what they're doing is they're suppressing. What's really true for them. Because they're massive people pleasers and they may use sarcasm there indirectly aggressive which. I really hate either very often there to face. Are they gossip a lot. They can be deceived. Fall and the puppy is submissive style. She's the real people pleaser. She just suppresses her needs and wants to make everybody happy and not not upset anybody. I was the puppy at one point. What are you now julie Wait what was the first one. The lion some the lion now. I feel like. I've done a lot of work communication but it was something i struggle with for a very long time What about you. I feel like it depends on the context within a relationship. I say i'm the lioness but at work. I'm definitely the koala sooner has an aggressive. I could see that super nice. That is interesting. Because i do think that it depends on the context depends on who you're talking to an depends on your partner in a relationship. I think i was definitely the puppy at one point with some of my leave. Yes relationships but for my current lineup. Definitely bill lioness yes. That's a good point. It could be the person. But i think also it can be the self work. 'cause i actually remember like when i revisited at a past relationship like he was like wow. You've really changed like how you communicate. I'm like the stated podcasts. For like five years. Now you know so. It's like some of it does come out with just experience and working that muscle and being aware of it like i think for me. A lot of it was stemmed from childhood to that. Like i didn't want to like you know like rock the boat. I wanted to just like you know. Make everything be okay and good. And i didn't like because i think i didn't wanna i grew up with fighting and i did not want that in a relationship so i did like the reverse one eighty where i wouldn't have any conflict but then i would just suppress it and then i would get resentful because i wasn't actually like 'cause you can't have any conflicts right Yeah i think. I grew up in your house related. Animal or you Indefinitely the lioness now. And i probably was more a combination of puppy koala. Never it was never the scorpion. Because that was my family was a bunch of four and yeah and it's and there was also a lot of the passive aggressive in my family too so there was yelling but there was such unclear communication and so be screamed at for not doing something but we had no idea what we're supposed to do not mind readers. I said that it. Yeah and i think just what i didn't weren't was a lot of the motivation for for who became but i but it's hard without the skills i mean. Every time i worked with somebody new. Today i just started working with a new client. Who grew up in a home with very very cold parents which is also very common and so she didn't get the love she needed and she struggled to keep the peace as well so you can be from either cold or hot parents and we just. We don't know how to get our needs met. And i think a lot of people feel it's mean to set boundaries. You know and so when you don't know how to do it my teach a whole course on boundaries because of this work it's just so important to learn how to say what you need to say and to say it nicely in say. Kindly not not be a pushover. I think that's why it's good that like we're starting to address socks. I think our parents generation to you know just like you like if we're we think we're on educated with communication like the older older.

00:45:04 - 00:50:05

You get like just more with stuff to get like under the rug. Kinda thing and looking. In retrospect i certainly don't blame them like they were just doing their best with it. But i think the whole piece about like stating your needs in a way. That isn't nin or selfish. I think for a long time i liked. Felt like it was selfish statement. Needs and i think that was the area that might act saw the biggest change in me. It wasn't necessarily a conflict. Is that i was just more like this is what i want in. This is what i expect opposed to expect him to be a mind reader. And i think some of it too. I think stems from like romantic comedies. Like bad like dating books that it's like if they really loved you they would know what to do not always realistic when you're so telepathically guard. Here's some truth to that. And i think also we tend to see the world only our way. We don't really see the world in the way the other person doesn't that's another big piece of growth. When i was having conflict with my daughter after the divorce. I hired a coach relationship coach to help me with her and i worked with her alone but she had me draw triangle on the ground. Which i i love this exercise see draw like a you know just imaginary triangle and one point of the triangle is you the other point is the other person and then. The top of the triangle is the relationship. And so you. I stand in your position. You're doing this alone and you're saying what the issue is. Then you go the other person's position he tried to see it from their point of view and that was like. Wow i never saw that way and then you look at it from the relationship perspective who you are together and so it's it's fascinating to do this. Because i was able to see that. I was expecting her to be me now the way i saw them in to put things away the way i would put things in. Its we get so angry. We take it personally. When somebody doesn't do we want and so he just say kindly and then it's like if you're dating somebody and you say kindly ask for what you wanted to keep ignoring you or they say. Oh you're too sensitive for your anything right you know and i always say somebody says your to something. It means. you're too much for them. It's not that you have the problem. They have a problem with you. But i think that's important though because if you expect people to be mind readers you're not even giving them an opportunity to like reacted anyways so yes like what you just said. If someone's like putting you down like says they're gonna do something then they just continued not to at least that's a data point but if you never ask them in the first place like they can't kind of expect that they would just know that now. Yeah we expect that in relationships a little too much. And i think crux of all the dating problems in issues is that even the beginning of like when you're just texting or messaging back and forth there is a lot of mis read messages and misunderstandings. Because you're just putting yourself putting them in your shoes like all the say why. I would say a little bit like that. When really don't know they're they're mere strangers and we think we forget that when it comes to dating. You're meeting a stranger. Let's take a quick break from this incredible conversation all about communication learning so much as we speak for a few messages. This episode is brought to you. By z man games and array of fun games for adults a one of which is called love letter now in this card game. Your goal is to win the heart of the noble princess. Who is looking for an ideal partner and confidant to help with her royal duties when she one day assumes the throne. Your goal is to enlist the characters in the castle to deliver your love letter while keeping other players letters away. It's trickier than a sounds. Powerful cards lee too early gains but make you a target and rely on weaker. Cards for too long and your letter may be tossed in the fire. I find it to be a fun and nice. Twenty minute mental break during the day. This two to six player card game fits in your pocket so you can take it with you anywhere. Love letters appropriate for ages. Ten and up and available for eleven ninety nine through z man games. You can find it at target your local game store or directly through z. Man's web store. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you wanna make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reopened. The dating seed may be gone on one too many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show audio content and much more allow julian.

00:50:05 - 00:55:02

I become your dating. Sherpa us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way in navigating dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcasts. Dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo. So i feel like the lovely which is was kind of like a good way. How different people like you know showed love and took in love. But i feel like there needs to be something for communication styles even more it away but i guess okay so the three of us were able to identify ours pretty easily. Probably 'cause we've been thinking about this a lot. What about the average person might not know which they fall into like what are ways that they can like identify their patterns in their communication styles and then also their partners if they have a partner so i have a quiz that be up on my website. By the time this goes live. Then i'll give you a link to that and so people can really go through and see where they come out and not only. Does the quiz help you. Identify your identity. Your communication style. But it tells you why you became that way and what you can do like what are the what a character traits who become so who becomes a puppy. The puppy developed this style because he or she grew up in a family. That probably didn't honor her for who she was but what she did like she had approved who she was and she learned that through pleasing others. She be appreciated and when she spoke up in the past. It was put down until you to sensitive or too louder too something so often and it can be a loving home so i had a client who was brought up in a home. Where apparent was ill and she had to suppress in order not to upset her mom and you know so so. She became the straight a student who had to be perfect and ended up marrying narcissistic man and didn't know why. And so you know it's it's it's clear but throughout therapy. She never they never connected the dots as to has. She became a codependent. She's my parents. Loved me so much the did but you had to not be new will be don't aren't allowed to fully be us and be honored for her. We are we end up with some of these dysfunctional communication styles and we protect ourselves by hiding parts of who we are. I mean that's i. I definitely was quiet because they didn't wanna be judged and so. I think we do these things to protect ourselves. Put up the shields and once we know how we came about this. Communication style is communication style to scheme us. Where it's just the way you are and you just have to learn to cope with it. Or is there a north star animal. Is there like like the dolphin. We should all be working towards becoming the dolphin or something like i think. It's like attachments styles a little bit more than the scheme as because attachment like let's say you have avoided attachment style and you tend to shut down when you're in relationships and avoid intimacy you can learn how to be a more secure attachment style in many different ways and it's the same thing with communication you can learn to get clear on your values and your core needs. You can stop saying yes when you mean now like the boundaries. Really help a lot with any of the codependent kinds of communication styles. You stop doing favors for people like that. That's the yeses all the time. yes yes. I'm just jam so nice. You're not so nice. You're depleting yourself on auto won't be around you. You learn to accept feedback and get feedback. I joined toastmasters and part of toastmasters is speaking up. It's also learning how to given receive feedback and in the evaluation process. I mean that's a big part of asserting yourself becoming a lioness so a lot of people. When i hear people give evaluations they only say nice things. And then they'll be kind of relay the entire speech and that's really not very effective Malleable but when you tell someone just like you would say in a relationship and this is the part that worked. And here's where. I think you could really grow even more. Here's some areas of improvement. And you hone in on those things. That's going to be a lot more valuable than hearing your speech you know. Give it back to you in the same thing with when you're in conflict you know i really care about you. And here's what's not working for me or this is making me uncomfortable. So learning scripts learning how to say things even at the beginning of the The dating process like he said being able to let a person know that. If you don't like texting. Say i i don't like texting. I find it really hard to get to know.

00:55:02 - 01:00:01

People had left to get on the phone. Does that were trio. And it's there's a way to say these things where it's not like you know what the hell you doing texting me so much right right. It's all how you say it. S what i learned over this. I think before i thought conflict equalled yelling in getting upset and i think it was actually alexandra solomon that we had on our podcast. That really like cemented for me. That like every relationship has conflicts. Because you're two people coming together with different world views and ways of processing things in. It's how you say it like if you could say it in a calm way versus like a heated way Again every scenario is different. There may be a scenario. That's not possible. But i think the more we can bring conflict with love. That's like because some vicious just like how you say you're going to get a response to certain way to feel defensive or like whatever it may be like. I think it's how you say. It is so important and the intention like what you're saying right now. It's it's if your intention is to connect more deeply or g get to know somebody better. Let them know upfront. I'm having a conversation with you. Because i care about you and i get closer to you. That takes away. So much of the the the scariness send the defensiveness which is another one of those terrible ways of arguing. The criticism defensiveness stonewalling and contempt. Are the floor ways for worst ways. We can argue because they shut the door in your face. It's all right or wrong thinking instead of. I actually wanna get closer to you right right. I think the fight. It's like me versus you. There's going to be a winner and a loser and that mentality is just setting you up for failure by getting into that exactly. How do we restructure our thinking around confrontations. Because i think in all the examples you've given some people would classify those as confrontation when you're stating your needs how can we get people around the mindset. It's not a confrontation and if it is a confrontation doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing i would use the word conflict resolution Because you really trying to resolve the issue not have conflict. I think that people really afraid of the big fight. Mike you said. Julie it's because we the way that we've experienced conflict has been all the worst ways you know just the yelling and we feel attacked. It feels violent ryan. That's why non violent communication is a is is a way to get closer to connect it was actually created it to have a peace among gang members and warren counties. I mean this is where this whole process started and if you can take gang members who hate each other and find common values because that's really where we can you look at most couples. They really do have the same goals the same values and it's how we express it. That's different so we can find a way to bridge that gap and say okay. We both have the same needs to find a way to make it work for both of us. You both have to be willing to do it. I think that's a way to to make peace and bridge those gaps so outside of light taking your quiz which i fully plan onto a also like how do you start to understand where they're coming from a bit because here's an example that someone in our community gave that she's dating someone and he's a little luster acts like he's more abstracts. Like you'd say like. I wanna talk more. But to her she's like. Does that mean talk on the phone tax each other like what is casually. Yeah like exactly like what does that actually mean. She's like it would have been better if he just came out and said i would like it if you called me at the end of the day every day. Like how do you like kind of manage. These twos at are different like. That's not even a conflict per se that's like in every if it's a mini conflict but it's not like what you think of is like a blow out fight or anything but it's like these little stressors of just two people coming at this in opposite viewpoints. How do you reconcile those. I would say curiosity is the cake. Always ask questions so if somebody says talk more what do you mean by that. It's the simple question. 'cause he's third guessing. You're gonna make yourself crazy when i talked to my mom. I'm i'm constantly trying to figure out which is trying to say is. She leaves out a lot of words. So i'm like kay. I think that means that to me. That i'm not sure i'm you just lift a whole piece there. So it's hard to make that leap but i speak up and ask for what i want. So you know i. I live with one of my children. Who communicates in a completely different way and pretty much. Everything i say is taken out of context.

01:00:02 - 01:05:03

So it's like. I have to not get triggered by that. It's been really very challenging. But what i'll do is i'll take a breath and center myself and then ask her. What were you making up there. Because that's that's another thing. We make up stories. So br neighbor as the story i'm making up is and that's a great way to start a conversation to you know. Just ask questions. tell me more. What do you mean. I love the britney brown like this is the story in my head. Because i feel like it's such a great way to freeze it to you because it's not putting it on your partner. It's putting it on yourself. And i think ultimately like yes. I mean like someone can say something that offends you but at the end of the day. It's how you are processing it in. All we can do is share that and then have them learn from that like again back to people not a mind reader but i think if you went into that and be like you know you never text me or you never call me like that's like a very different via that's going to elicit a response. That's not a conversation right so the you never text me as more of a scorpio. Kind of approach. It's an accusation. It's not a request right so it's in it's not direct its indirect announced feeling shamed and so break it down like what do you want and i think for anybody who has any communication style to just take a moment and ask yourself what we want. How can i express that in. It's a me thing. I can say what i need. How do we get people to truly state. There needs because in the scenario that we just gave the need is not they wanna communicate more. What i'm hearing is there's an underlying need of. I need to feel more secure in this in this relationship. But i don't think people come out and say that instead of they say something very trivial. I wish we talked more. So how do we get people. There communicate their needs. Well so i give my clients from a non violent. Communication has a list of feelings in needs on their website. And a good place to look because the charts. You look through the chart saying you start to really feel into it and the truth. Is that our thoughts and our feelings are very different but we often confuse them. A body really knows the feelings and that's why nonverbal communication is important because often will say something but our bodies something else like. It's tightening up in our in our brow changes so don't get the first place to check your body like when this is happening. What's happening in your body because a lot of people really don't know how to name anything so i'll always have clients just goes tightening in my chest when i feel anxious shortness of breath. I'm clenching my fists. My jaw tightens like they can start to stand the the trigger points in their body to help them now articulate a feeling and then you can. I mean there many different sources for feelings. But it's good to to get charts and that list feelings in need. Says you can have a bigger vocabulary and a feeling is always connected to a need. So you're right like somebody's not getting tested enough. They're they're feeling insecure. They're feeling a need for connection film a need for to be closer to that person. And it's voluble because maybe that person doesn't want the same level of connection that you do. But i couldn't name any of this years ago but with the boyfriend who wanted me to sleep over is said you know in this relationship. We both have to honor each other's needs. And i can't stay in this relationship before not gonna do that. I just had a need for sleep. Wasn't wasn't really wasn't about you and i just need to know that you're okay with that you know and that you're not going to judge me or take it personally when i need to take care of myself and that was a conversation i could never had earlier because i didn't know i didn't even know that they need is sleep. I probably wouldn't buy would have given up my sleeping than been a bitch the next day. So it's it's knowing Takes takes in inventory of your own needs. And i think that's one of the most important places to start during the day. I have people go through the day saying with this feat mirror during me. You know that includes what you're putting in your mouth what you're the phone calls. You're taking the meetings. You're saying yes to anything that you do. You really have to start understanding. If you're overdoing over giving over standing which is a big reason. Why people communicate poorly. I love this digging into the deeper need. that's happening. Is there ever a situation where to people's communication style just clashes like that. They can't work through it a yeah i mean. I think if if so all the relationships that don't work are usually with often with. I would say like a scorpion puppy or scorpion.

01:05:03 - 01:10:00

And kalala or scorpion. And anybody anybody fucking nightmare. It's your so it. Let's say there's a situation where one of my clients. The guy was moody. He was moody when he didn't get his way which means he was controlling and he always had to have his way but because she couldn't articulate it she was trying to take care of his moods and they can feel better and so we. That's the caretaker. The you know so. That's the childhood crack that we have to work through all that trauma and so you recognize cam trying to fix somebody who's not fixable right and so yeah in those situations. It's is to really hard to be with somebody who's scorpion. Unless they become aware and they go for therapy themselves. Just get the hell out of that relationship right. The other ones like you can kinda like i'm thinking back to this example about like the calling and texting like that could have been like like if you're kind of a skilled communicator. Maybe that's something you could even take on if your partner's not there to be like. What is the deeper thing that's going on for you and try to like re frame it like other any other techniques like if your partner isn't there let's say you know all of our listeners are super dateable. They're getting they're they're listening to this right now. Like what do they do if they're partners just not in the same place in the same place as they are in translating communications honing in on their communication skills without totally calling. It like i mean. Obviously that's like worse case scenario but like what can they do to try to make it work if they're just like not they're having more conflicting styles. I were just get really vulnerable. You know in just say. I'm really sad when we can't talk. I wanna get close to you. And i feel that there's a wall up and is there a way that you know maybe. Are you not feeling safe opening up to the election. Really just get into the you know the granular part of it. Because i think that when we get really vulnerable we just take that guard down. It's it's a place where somebody can open to and usually what we do. Is we keep our guard up because we don't wanna get hurt and so it's a hard thing to do but i think we have to take those risks because otherwise to people just keep colliding. It can be a year down the road. And you're just missing each other and you know going back to attachments. Now's like if you're dating and avoidance and that person doesn't feel comfortable opening up ever it's just never going to change is neck to grow unless unless you're really opened with that person and say that i can't continue miss you open up more and maybe maybe we need to go to therapy together. I had a client who asked her boyfriend go to therapy. And or even just do a couple's weekend or do something and he's just said no not doing any variety. She walked away right. But at least you like try than that because search How you phrased to about like i like it. Came from like yourself not like you were doing something wrong. Like you brought the un later to have it as a collaborative conversation. But it didn't start with you. And i think i've read a lot of communication books in like how to phrase it. I think this starting with your own feelings is a really good way that makes people not react on the defensive. Absolutely and here's a little tip about talking about your feelings. If you say. I feel that or feel like you're not stating a feeling stating an opinion so i feel like he. You didn't come to dinner on time. Basically you just turned into an icy and people do it all the time. I can't you feel about that. Well i felt that he really didn't treat me. Well that's why most people talk like that. They're using the feel word and so they think it's feelings so we get stay right so catching yourself. I love that though. Because i mean i never stopped to think about it and like i said. I've read a lot of books about the stuff that i think you're right. Let people could fall into the trap of like that. I am saying feel really doing that instead of getting to the deeper root of like what is it that i'm feeling feeling insecure. Feeling like i dunno. Whatever you're feeling that it's so good rule of thumb is. If you start a sentence with i feel it needs to end with a feeling yes. I've definitely been guilty of. This is stuff. Like i feel like you suck at this feeling. It's back so if you leave people with like one tip of like how to be effective communicator. Does is a broad question. Cirkovic at all different levels like what would be like one could a universal truth. You would give a curiosity where it just keeps coming up for me. I really ask questions. We make so many assumptions about people. I think if we just surrey.

01:10:00 - 01:15:04

What do you mean by that. Tell me right right. I even somebody says i need space. What if you found out what space meant what it meant a week off. 'cause my mother's sick and i need to go to the hospital versus this is kind of a break up in number trade to break up with you. What if people could just be honest in just like i really wanna know because i'm going to move on if it's scenario number two it's scenario number one. I'll be here waiting ryan l. and right so nice. Hate that phrase allen. Nobody should ever use that. That was almost the demise of my relationship and skin cova while boyfriend said i need space. I packed up all my shit. We'll give you all the space forever. And ever he's like no. I met for like an hour. That what okay. So you in a very strong reaction. What would that be in this. That would be the scorpio with coming out. Oh really with the score. Will you being defensive. You were you. Were shielding a hooker. I'll give you all the news. A little passive aggressive. I yeah sarcastic. Some yeah. I wasn't trying to be right. I was just like that's fine. I'll give you space in the world. Jewish i feel that you're a douche patents so that just turned around you you how did you get over that then like how did you move it from i. I know you did but like how did you get over. Like not being the koala this circuit stats. Well i think it goes back to a sandy. Saying is leading with curiosity and asking more questions when he said he needed more space. I do not clarify. I was just latin. I wasn't like hold on. Let me check. What does this mean. I was more like fuck you. You don't love me anymore. You don't want to be in this relationship. i'm outta here. And i packed up my stuff and i went back to my own apartment for the weekend and during that weekend i was like hey i never stopped asked what is more space mean and so i did call him. Not very like me because i'm so prideful. But that sunday. I called him and i was like. Hey i just really want to talk about this. I never clarified with space. Meant and he was like. I used the wrong word because what i really want to say as we should really share responsibilities household and i feel like i'm i'm putting in a lot to like taking care of you but i just want to be an equal partnership different than wanting space. That's how it manifested for him. But this is so typical typically me until this relationship and sandy. What you said about just like making up stories and stonewalling. That was me for the last like three nine years. You know all my relationships and like all fine. You know if you didn't do that then fine out of here and this is the first relationship with someone. Called me out was like that's not how it works. That's not how communication helps a. He went to therapy. I so yes. But i love that. And and that's what he means. I keep you have a good partner. Who's going to call you up in a kind way lake. Call you up to your higher self not call you up like tier lowest south which is a lot of people too but and that was one of the reasons i married my husband. Actually that was one good thing that he did was. He called me up in in many ways he he wanted to really deal with stuff and but then it'll change. We got married. But i was attracted to that and i realize that all my life has attracted people really clear like we had a therapist for my children. Once a play therapist. She was so clear. Better standards like you came in. You had to take your shoes off. You're not allowed in the therapy ru you have to pay in advance like everything was laid out. It was very clear. So i adapted all of those things as i got better at communication in my business as well like my contract is clear. I have a very clear first session with the client about what to expect. And here's how we're going to design our relationship together. I think every couple should do that. Here's what you can expect from me. I'm probably going to screw up here. You can't can. I curse yes you too. I mean really just saying stuff and putting out there and we don't we don't talk about stuff enough you know. Even i s to boyfriend ones. How might you sabotage its relationship. We had been on three dates. Like what are you talking about. I said well we ought to stuff to sabotage. So i'll tell you mine if you tell me you're so we can know what to look for. Okay this is why communication such an important topic. And i'm so glad we were able to like devote an entire episode. Because i feel like over the last five years we i think one of our takeaways at pretty much every episode like open communication like communicate warlike. That comes up like the example that you both gave basically like with this. Like it or not good communicators. That's when things just dissolve. Because i can totally see the example like you a you said like if you stormed out somewhere. Why would someone like if they are not trained to question it.

01:15:04 - 01:20:02

They're just be like oh she's done so i'm yeah it's always like an ego thing so i think we should transition to takeaways conversation but i think the one that keeps standing out for me. We always say this is the y. Y y the three levels of why digging deeper. And i think whatever someone says as the The problem it's going on. How can you take it to levels past that to like. What is the core thing that's happening for you in that for them and i love the other kind of big takeaway have is. There's always three people in this relationship you them and the relationship and i think that's really important to like think about it as a team. Like we're not going head-to-head we're not trying to win this fight. You know we have the common goal of making this relationship work and loving each other and being there for each other. And how can you use conflict in communication to relate that instead of you suck. You're not meeting my whatever. It may be right. So i love this visual the triangle. Because you've got you on one side your partner on the other side and the goal which is a common goal at the top which is an uphill so it means that is still going to be a challenge. But you're both trying to walk up. Nobody's trying to go downhill from here. And i think we forget that in relationships you enter into relationships and dating because both people want it to work even if it's a first second date before a day everybody goes into communication connecting with someone else wanting it to work. So it's it's good to constantly ping pong back and forth between what what it is. My partner wants stepped into their shoes. And then how can i get my needs. Met as well am the other takeaway i have is. I feel like we jump to conclusions so much but then the way we communicate with kids is so different because we just assume they don't know everything so we over communicate were extremely empathetic and sympathetic to kids. We're caring kind. Why don't we talk to adults in the same way i feel like i'm way more patients talking to kids because i'm like obviously they don't know what this means or what. I'm going through but we should approach relationships in the same way. Obviously they do not know what's going on your head because they are not you and they're not psychic and they cannot read your mind. Yeah i think mind. Reading ego and pride are the demise of relationships. That's another device triangle. You've got the three pillars of pride and mine reading at the top a another another great analogy you too. I love the child analogy and coming in actually as your as a child into a relationship bringing that sense of play and openness is so important but also looking at other people are in a in a dating situation as if they're from another planet and just like i know nothing about this planet. I'm coming in. And i'm so curious to know everything but i'm not gonna assume anything because i know nothing and i think coming into that beginner's mind like here. I am on a planet. I know nothing about yeah. I think that's so important. Because i think a lot of times too with communication. We take the past whether that's our upbringing whether that's a past relationship like oh it's happening again but you don't know if it really is happening again because it's a new person so i think the ultimate takeaway of this whole estate curious. That is definitely the biggest thing bring curiosity to every conflict to communication and just everything in life. It'll help us with everything in life. Just staying curious. Thank you sandy for being such a wonderful guest and thanks for having us on your podcast. We had such a lovely discussion We can't. I can't wait for people to take your quiz because ultimately what i love to do either for follow up episode. Were bring you for in for one of our events is talk about if you are one of the animals. What do you do. What are the things things that you need to be working on as a puppy versus as a lion us because everyone's is going to be different. Everybody's strategy to be become better communicators. But thank you for. I feel like i m one hour better communicator. As a result of this yeah for sure for sure that i'm refrained from using. I feel that. That is a sure i have to give credit to what my guests jocelyn johnson for helping me with that guy always that it was a judgment but i didn't pinpoint pointed to the light. Combat height is such. It's like whoa. That's so easy to catch. But i think we have to make some new merch that says curious. State data adalah.

01:20:03 - 01:23:31

I i love that. We'll send you one of those. Thank you so much san diego earlier but like if people wanna like find you. What's kind of like a few ways. They can search you on the internet. The interwebs a lot of places on the internet said probably the best places my website last first date dot com and you can join our facebook group. Your last burr state. Those are probably the two best in a member of our facebook of to and is a moderator matter. You moderators another request for our listeners. Is while you're on the interwebs. Go to apple podcasts. And give both of our podcasts. A five star rating and really helps us one bring you better content to bring you better gas and three stay sane through all of this and no. We're working towards something that people are listening to when we're not just to ourselves so apple podcasts. Give both are both of our podcast. Five star rating may be just a quick comment about why you love us. It is so helpful. I feel that it is very helpful. Like getting those reviews though reading those really does work our hearts so thank you for everyone that has an for. If you haven't takes two seconds drop us. One very much appreciated perfect. We're going to wrap this up day Communicative dateable podcast. Is part of the frolic. Podcast network five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcasts. Tag any post with a hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. Were also downloadable for free on spotify apple podcasts. Google play stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable finally abed that sends a snoring and automatically responds meet the ergo smart base from tempurpedic our first system that detects snoring than automatically adjusts by raising the bed and now during the tempurpedic summer of sleep all tempurpedic mattresses are on sale with savings up to five hundred dollars on adjustable sets get your best sleep all night every night more at tempurpedic dot com for the ones who know that a little late is always too late that the clock doesn't stop just because you're missing apart grainger office supplies and solutions for every industry and our keep stock inventory management solutions help ensure you have the right stuff in the right place at exactly. The right time visit grainger dot com slash kief stock to learn more grainger for the ones who get it done.