S12E15: Slaying the Dating Apps w/ Dawoon Kang of Coffee Meets Bagel

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Welcome to another episode of dateable. Show all about modern dating where we get to the bottom of people's behaviors. Why they do the things they do why they say the things they say. And why do we need to do. Taxes is my question for this week. That has so much to do with dating me all weekend. Do my taxes. Why they changed the tax laws every year. And i'm just more confused every year. You always wait to the last minute. I'm always baffled by it. My mom's at accounted watts. It up like a sap. So i'm actually more proud that i get it the night before. It was due to me. That was early pap procrastination but for anyone do this. Is this a dating podcast. Not attacks clock as it could be a tax podcast. Hey dating taxes on goes hand. Hey we were having this whole conversation about like if you get married in the state of california you actually get less tax breaks which is so counter. Intuitive to what i would have thought i mean some of it depends on your income brackets of course but like there are a lot of my friends that are married by saying but not legally married. Yes i have a lot of friends like that too because he used to hear. And i'm sure you've heard this to julie like oh you get married and you get tax breaks but it's a myth. Apparently yeah and you don't get like tax breaks for homes anymore like there's so much bullshit out there not to get married and have a home to home. Listen single exactly exactly. You're coming out on taxes. Assume words but you miss julie quite eventful weekend. She didn't tell me anything before we recorded. She says she was willing to talk about her. We can get away so well tell us. I wanna start before that. We had a livestream last week for anyone. That's in our public love. In the time of corona group. We do a community livestream. Every month and we have special guests will give a shout out to don. She was our member of the month for may so go dawn and somehow that livestream turned to my personal life which was not ryan shannon credit arriving. I like alluded on surpassed episodes of the happen. Seek somewhat but ryan. Jeffrey specifically asked at. I dislike. I've ever said he called it out like you like there's a question directed to you and i was like i know exactly what this is going to be. Anyways you jaylo like everytime jaylo changes her relationship status. Everyone goes crazy and starts talking about it. Like oh my god. Did you hear jaylo. J.lo's dating ben affleck again. I didn't think about that until right now so no i do not feel like well you should. It's definitely the same exact situation. Obviously exact same situation. Yes i guess. I share that i happen seeks. I wanna have a new boyfriend which is very exciting. And like when things click they click. It was like one of those moments that we've only. It's only been a month so it hasn't a little over a month at this point so hasn't been super long but you know we saw each other a lot. He was very proactive. Like we go on a date. He asked for the next couple of days. Later we saw each other a lot in a short period of time. You know really enjoyed being together which it was a reminder to me that lake sometimes we make dating more complex than it needs to me like when someone's into you they're ready for relationship they just wanna see you and it doesn't need to be so many like games and we don't need to be chasing these people that just don't want the same as us right whether they are in the same place of their lives or they don't view us in that way like what is the point at the end of the day. I don't easier said than done. I've definitely been in things. That are much more difficult but it is a reminder to me like how easy it should feel especially at this stage of the game it is. It's an interesting dichotomy on one hand. It should be easy. It should feel easy on the other hand. It's the effort that people put into. The dates really showed their interest. So i remember when you to. I start dating. You were saying this. One just feels different because putting in auto effort. He's very intentional. After your first day he asked about second day after seconds. You want to see you again pretty soon after. It's the effort that someone puts in and we forget that sometimes it's not about winning.

00:05:02 - 00:10:14

Someone over is to see if they wanna put an effort if you wanna put in the upper. I'm glad you said that. Because i think easy doesn't me not effort right like it's been easy in the sense that like. I never questioned the intention. I never wondered like. Does he like the like. What are we gonna see. Each other asks like that was all laid out very transparently and like effort. Wise like i think like i told him what i was like. Oh into this was like he baby like a full on picnic like park like he like was like what sandwiches do you want. I was thinking about ordering from this place. Set the bed you the night before and you know he just came super paired with everything and i had been on so many dates park dates prior and i'm like putting it in quotations because the guy just like rolled up with like nothing you like. I was the one that had to be like. Should i bring a bottle of wine and it was like so nice and refreshing for someone just to own it. And i like almost want to be like. Oh should i do this this. I'm like i'm just gonna like let do it because he's like wants to do it right. Yeah that was really impressive so he completely checked off the double ease the effort in the easy less. Maybe that's like the new sign when you've like met someone. Oh yeah you got to the yes. We that the wbz's but yeah it. Just i think is easy like you think like. Oh it's it's too easy. It's not interesting. It doesn't need to be either. It's like sometimes you just don't want that pit in your stomach winter like if they're going to text you back like who wants that at the end of the day imagined that so then this was a big getaway. Oh yeah yeah so anyways. I had this trip planned to send noma with three other girlfriends of mine in their significant others and in some cases and there i was six-wheel yep i honestly at seven again. I was seventh wheel. Yeah you'd be the like am i. Six or the seventh wheel to some of them. You're the six wheel and their partners knows eddie boy. Yeah but they're all by fred site honestly. I didn't really care honestly when we book this trip. I wasn't expecting to have someone to invite to it because it wasn't like that was probably like a month and a half ago ish like maybe two months ago and yeah like i was like should i invite him because we've been spending all this time together and i'm like i want him to call it like i would like to introduce him to my friends but i was like. Is it too soon in the sense that like. Would it be better for us to do a trip. I you know. But i was like we were out one night and i just like it felt right and i asked him but he was super excited about it so he came on the trip with me and it was super fun. I'm really glad. I'm really glad that i invited him. Like i think that it was the right choice in like i've really happy with the way it turned out like this group of friends like they're pretty easy going and like their significant others are pretty welcoming and easy to hang out with. So i wasn't like super concerned but it also was like a lot of new people to meet at once and you know he definitely like got along great with everyone. It was really good to see and you know you even asked me if there were babies. They're i really the room and deep but It was so cute though. What am i friends daughter. She's like three and she was like going around picking everyone flowers and like bringing them over like what we were at dinner. Don't actually brought one to him and everyone's like you made it your in. Got that flower. You got that final road. You've been picked the thatcher the bachelorette you've made your like what. Why even wait. Right like your. He's going to meet your friends eventually. This is a great opportunity to do so in a shows that you don't take this lightly you're just gonna invite anybody on this trip so it meant a lot for you to even ask him to go totally totally. Yeah so. I'm glad you had a good time. No it was great. You know. I be like just get sedova right now with like he has a jeep so we wrote up the jeep and everyone of the house was super excited about the had. Like the roof. Dowd one of my friends was like this is lake by high school fan but yeah we hit up a lot of wineries breweries. I was telling you. Am like i just feel like so tired right now. We're like recording this a little leap. But like i think like the four days of drinking and eating just caught up today. It was super fun. It was super fun. What was the situation like up in cinema now with the new mask laws. I feel like some people are like okay. I'm good to take it off. Some people are like oh hell no. I'm keeping us on as long as i can It was like definitely like people like all the wineries they were totally wearing them and stuff. But i actually lost my basket one point and we went to like a brewery. We went to a cider place. I because there was like a line. And i went to go the brewery and i'm like shit i don't have my bask and i only had one on me and i'm like are they gonna let in because it was like indoors and stuff i just like walked through at like no it even like batted and i really.

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Yeah but then on the way out like Like the guys went into the gift shop and he brought me a basque from the place. We need a codename. We can't just call him. The guy name i know we're not revealed. His actual name alike. Well i just say my boyfriend. That's a good way to say. I'm not gonna give him a fake. I feel like you don't really reference to your boyfriend's debut either. Well his name is so unique official. That is very true. That is very easy to find. That is true. Actually his would not be very easy. No and he's like is not a social media person so it would be very difficult to find your code named would be more unique then his actual name. Probably but yeah. It was a great weekend. Nothing but good stuff from it so so. Happy is like joe laying. She's she's the grid this weekend. I was like hello are you there. I totally tax with you. Don't once you don't okay for anybody who's friends with. Julie loves the tax. This girl is a texting queen. When i didn't hear from her or at least twelve hours. Okay i'm sure she's having a good time. I can send help as she been heard from her over tags. She's in relationship now anyways. It's a big week for us so it is and we did. Meet on hinge. I'm gonna throw that. Oh actually has a lot to do with this coming episode this coming sounding board event weekly. We've lot tied with data apps. But you all know that i used to really be anti dating apps like i never thought i would meet people off dating apps. I had the experience that many of the people in our group had like a every time. I see one of those posts dislike. Stick with it. Like don't give out. Because like i definitely was in this time period that i definitely cereal dated a lot on dating apps and many of them didn't go anywhere at half like couple of dates the ghosts they fall off. They wouldn't wanna be a relationship. Whatever it was and same for me. Like i would lose interest or whatever i definitely remember like tendering wall in the bathroom you know i was all that i really lost hope and dating apps and then like i met my ex the one that my british that left and again the reason we broke up had nothing to do with it being a bad relationship like he had to leave. The country lost a visa. And now. I met this boyfriend from a pinch. I just think it's a great way to meet people that you would never come in contact with and i don't like it doesn't need to be your only way to meet people like why rule out this way. That's like so mainstream right now. yeah. I mean just. Every time we talk about technology we can either choose to complain about it or we can figure out ways for it to work to our benefit and dating apps were created to work to our benefit not to make our lives worse so with that intention behind it. I think this is why this is a great episode because we interview. The co founder of copy needs bagel dot wound. Because she will shed some light around how she's built an entire company about finding love for you. It's not they did not build with the intention of. Let's make people's lives insane. Let's make everyone mad. That's not what they're trying to do. All these dating apps are trying to make the app sticky so that you have a great experience and potentially meet someone special I've ever we put up a post a while back of like if you could ask data gap founder. Anything what would you want. We got a shit ton of respect so we did our very best to hit him the majority of them. And you know there's some topics that were like this probably warrants a whole discussion on its own weed left some off but i think this episode is pretty jam packed with a lot of the stuff that you all wanted to know in that kind of is the inner workings of the algorithms to like. How us like success stories that they've heard and like how to use these in your favor and the ultimate question is how do i best use the apps. People always ask about the algorithm. How does it give you the matches that gives you so you know the inner workings of an app you can have it work for you. Yep and this is definitely the leak of the data gaps have are sounding board event this thursday.

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So there's still some spaces laugh. We try to keep these relatively small so they can be very intimate environments. That are you know like sometimes it can get personal what you're talking about your day. They gap but we wanna make it a really comfortable in encouraging environment which we feel. They are so for the sounding board of this thursday. We have marie and nidia. Who are going to be telling us. Exactly how basseterre. You're dating profile. Marie is a dating coach. She's been active in our love in the time of corona group for awhile. Now we've had the pleasure of referring a bunch of people over to hurt so that's been great to see people actually working with her and getting a lot of great results and then she recommended nitya who she's worked with actually help as a photographer to like. Get them those photos because we all know how important photos are in your dating profile packaging. How do you package yourself in in a way. That's authentic but also attracts the audience. You're trying to get all it takes one. You just trying to get that one match. Or i don't know if you're a poly maybe multiple so i i should just scratch that you're just trying to attract the right people for you. You're looking for exactly and even for people that are in relationships. I've been getting some tips on. Photography will be great. I think i might have driven my new boyfriend a little crazy with all the fees that looks like utter shed so i had to retake them personally looking forward to having this help that i don't need to make someone take a bunch of photos. It could just get it right or train him. The best photographer. Bring to event on thursday but again that is happening this thursday at five thirty pacific standard time for all the information. And how you can Join the sounding board again. It's just dateable. Podcast dot com slash sounding board and this is all related to our question our from our new segment on dating advice from some of the questions from you all at who sent in questions that we've seen a lot of the same questions around dating apps and consolidated them into this one question which is what is the biggest mistake that people make when it comes to their dating apps here. I should a lot. And i bet we're going to get this question again on thursday I think there are a lot of mistakes that people can make. But but none of them are really detrimental. I do think there is one big mistake that people make just from picking their photos which is picking photos had don't show there is people momentum take photos or show photos of them in sunglasses of them looking down looking up looking away but to fully grasp. Someone's vibe through picture. We need to see your eyes and that should be your profile photo. Your other photos can have whatever you can look in. Whichever direction will wear whatever funky glasses you want to buy for that initial photo to grab someone's attention. It's really good to see your is. Yeah i know. This is the one. But i think smiling is up there also when it comes to photos like if someone doesn't look like a happy person that i'm going to enjoy being around like if they're kind of like too cool for school type of look like i'll passover that but i would say outside of photos if we're going to go a little boredom sear on like the one thing with these dating apps that have verification. I think it is a mistake not to do it. I've heard from men specifically that there's a lot of scammers on dating apps and they do look for this the blue checkmark. You do not have to be instagram. Cool to get the check. Barak like you don't have to be vip. All you do is like take a photo of yourself live so they can verify that you're the same person one of those things. That's a tool that's there and it's easy to skip over is you're like. Why do i need to do this. But i have heard from a lot of different people that they do look for it and they wanna make sure that whoever they're talking to is a legit human being not someone like scamming them for cash. Oh my god. I so glad you brought this up. What is this show called. There's a show called Something about hustling or how to be a. I don't forget. It's a documentary series on netflix and each episode features as scammer in. What they do and one of them was this rapper. Who built his entire career teaching people how to scam others and the biggest job role fire fire festival like everything. He's associated with as a scam. This is coming that you still love general. that's true. I was just listening to his old songs together. Day soga for this scam of so. This rapper does this all the time. He calls a free money.

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It's an instagram scam. Where he steals photos from hot girls. Profiles creates a new account buys followers builds up the followers and start following every guy pay of a bunch of guys who are going to follow you back in the he starts deeming them and starts flirting with them have conversations with them to the point where he offers to wanna fly out to meet them. Where want gifts and the guys would offer to pay for it. I mean quote her shit and then as soon save wire over the money or pay pal the money he blocks or account and they can never find again yes and no identities revealed. No we information's really exchanged. So i agree if you can verify your your profile on the dating apps. It is a huge help yet. I mean in our facebook group alone. I've seen a lot of people of like you know all sexualities all genders like posting about scammers on dating apps. We actually didn't go super deep on this topic in this episode. Because i actually think it warrants an entire episode on its own is the super interesting topic but i think like if you're a normal person out of the day the gap looking for love. Don't let someone think you're a scammer right like yes the tools that you have. I remember someone asked me once. Like if i was a bottle or a real person. And i was like well. I'll take it as a convoy of it that you think that i'm like a fake person but i'm also like do this person. Just get like really screwed over a lot. Oh poor guy poor guy. I've definitely talked to plenty of bots on dating apps. Believe it or not because you can. You can kinda tell though. Yeah there is. There's a few specifically that when you first sign on you've got a lot of really hot people. Yeah and you talk to them and their. Solis like there's absolutely no conversation where they never matched with you or they never fe. But yes yup click bait. That's without well all right. Hope that answers the question. The biggest mistake you can make on dating apps cool also quick out sements really fast. And then we'll get into our sponsors so joined love in the time corona as low as this is the public group just to kind of like i feel like there's a little housekeeping. There is the private group the sounding board. That's where the events happened. That's where the virtual happy hours happen with the podcast discussion groups. Basically anything that isn't just ridden text is in the sounding board but that is our premium groups so to sign up for that you can join any of the three levels dateable podcasts dot com slash sounding board. But if you just want to be in the public group that's love in the time krona. Yeah i've got to keep saying this because we get a lot of requests. That and i know it's super confusing that we have two groups but that's just the line in the sand of what the differences and we hope you'll join both groups obviously but at least one of them depending on what your needs are yes so let's get into our sponsors. This episode is made possible by pros. There's no one size fits all when it comes to shampoo and conditioner. We need products that are suited for our unique needs. And don't leave us disappointed. Case in point my hair turned super frizzy and wavy in my twenties. And none of my old hair care products were effective anymore. Now thanks to my personalized pros shampoo and conditioner and even pre shampoo mask. I've fallen in love with my harragan. Pros creates customized haircare products for people not hair types. You'll never have to compromise on healthy hair goals because every products formula is made with you in mind. Their online quiz dives into every conceivable factor. That affects your hair health. 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You can find it at target your local game store or directly through zeman's web store awesome. So shall we hear it from w that wound so we always want to know what are the inner workings of a dating app. We've read the articles. We've heard rumors but now we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happens behind the dating app by founder herself. Her name is w founder of coffee meets bagel. she currently lives in oahu. What a hard life. Right like yeah. It must be a really really hard right now. Originally from korea. She's seven years old and she is married. Hi john how are you. Hi julian doing really. Well thank you so much for having me super excited to be here. Thank you for taking a break from your beachie vibes in san get back. So let's get going. I'm like twenty minutes guys speedy. But yeah i mean i think you a set this up perfectly. We asked our audience about just like what they would ask a data founder if they had the opportunity given that we knew we'd be talking to you in the questions like piled in so. We're obviously going to do it. Abbreviate inswinging go deep. Nab people have a lot of questions about what goes down to the data this question. I'm sure you've got a million times but we're going to ask you again because we want to hear from you have it on record. Which is what inspired you to create. Coffee meets bagel in the first place. Yeah you know This was like now eight years ago when it feels like yesterday but You know at the time by two sisters there my cofounders and we were looking for ideas to work on so we've always wanted to be entrepreneur because our parents are entrepreneurs actually played with a bunch of different things like travel food and all that stuff and just kept coming back to dating because maybe he was a function of oz. Being our late twenties always came came up omar friends single friends as a problem that both men and women and when we started looking into it we thought it was really interesting. The notion of products out there that You know this has always been a competitive space but we actually released saw. That was lacking. Is that this focus on quality aspect vs quantity moose of the dating services at the time and still today is really focused on like okay. Let's just get as many people as possible in front of you for you either. Swipe or browser whatever you know that model. While i think can be entertaining. If you're somebody looking for a really equality connection looking for a long term relationship. I personally don't think that lends itself to a great come Impossible of course it is possible but you know being able to focus on fewer but more relevant matches for you so that you can actually go deeper each connection you formulate. I believe is faster rate to get to the type of genuine long-term connection that you're looking for if if that's what you're looking for and you're there has been a lot of studies that kind of back this up to right like there's a really famous study that was on by a professor at harvard. It's called the jam. Study where they actually had different booth with. You know one booth with like twenty five jams. That people could try muslims another booth with like six jams. People could dry and there are a lot more people gathered in the twenty five jammed. Bruce by when he came to purchase decisions people who actually tasted jams at the twenty five light. Jam booze were only ten percent likely to make a purchase versus the other one. Six six shampoos because it's just cognitively Too overwhelming to be able to make a decision as to what i want to commit of all. These oldies jams. That i tried. And it's the same concept with the different things including dating there so many choices it becomes really overwhelming and very easy to be like you know what i i just don't want to deal with. I can't deal with this right. And i think that's psychology is kind of the crux of why feels like dating joe's like exhausting and you spend a lot of time but like concrete things. Just don't nothing people say nothing ever come out of. It will because we're having a hard time making decisions as to who they want to spend time with and so You know given the observing dynamic you know. We decided to create its baker which is a like an wiping. that's really focused on quality. That's make sure that we actually focused and serving people not all singles but people who are focused long-term relationship because it's also frustrating to come to a dating app and then end up being matched with people who are now looking for the same thing rahm and so really specialize in that. That was kind of the birth of kaufman fatal. So could you take us back to where you were at.

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This play said that you were you at your sisters. Were all single looking for you know to have relationships. Were you using other data gaps before you created coffee meets bagel with you actually created copy beats bagel. Did you use your own app lake. Take us through your own abc experience that we were not all singles like a lot of your in our late twenties and a lot of our friends were singles. This topic came up. The three of us were not all singles. Only one of us was actually. One of us was almost like engaged. Oh and i was also in a relationship. And so when i started i was in a relationship but as a result of moving to new york city to start off me too. I was actually in hong kong at the time like when when i first started off meets bagel but because for me through was taking off i decided to move to new york to be physically Close to my founders. My sisters and be able to operate from there. And i told my ex boyfriend at the time like hey you know i think our relationship super strong so i don't think long term relationship as long distance relationship is going to be a problem for us. the was totally wrong about that and so but like six months. After we moved we ended up breaking up. And so then. I started using. Kaufman's bagel. i took a break for a little bit. Because i just couldn't it was. It was a very developed devastating. One sided break-up. Like i thought we were totally doing well. Very very good lesson on communication or rather lack of communication and so then i started using half michiel myself so take us through that. Tell us your experience using your own. Athey yeah i mean it was really really fun like sometimes like a like because now now i'm married partner to actually a work on coffee meets bagel. I think yes. And no like when i was using the at myself I was on the bunch of different apps. Also for laser. Of course i did beat up with a couple of people as well But like. I'm seriously not saying this. Because i'm calling two hundred but i did actually have have the best results with coffee. Meets bagel only. Probably because i didn't spend a ton of time when dating apps in general because i was working a lot. Just the wave. We are designed like the only give you a limited number of matches right and so that was very digestible for me and For the time that i was actually putting the roi was best with comments bagel. And so yeah. I was using ton of dating. I mean coughing typical on almost on a daily basis in meeting people and it was. It's really easy to empathize with users. When i'm actually user myself ray wears yeah whereas now. I'm married so i am not using the apple real And so i knew actually put an extra effort to be able to empathize. It doesn't come as naturally to me. I used a coffee meets bagel as my friend. And so i log in through one of my friend who's single and she has a hard time kind of waiting or self to use dating apps anyway and so i am bogged in as her in the i kind of see her matches and kind of see like what what. She's her experiences like as a way for me to replicate empathy. Are you writing messages for her as well. Sometimes i do that. I guess this isn't totally question. I do that especially like the very beginning part like high and then i pave it overnight. I think take over. Did you beat your husband. Auto data gabrielli. Could you walk us through that. You have relationships from daily apps so in the five years or so that i actually used cough amidst bagel until like i met my current husband. I met two of my ex boyfriends onto coffee meets bagel. Each religion blasted robot two years. It was a great lakes locked. Her relationship But my husband. I didn't meet on to move. Actually made it through like just friends dot it so i could hear people wondering like okay like had success needing relationships. But you didn't meet your husband on a day the app do you think like you david. Hell apps help chew indirectly with that relationship. Like is there anything that you would like credit data gaps for that. Yeah you know. I think it's not necessarily dating apps per se but well i guess maybe it is a dating app. I think the reason why my my relationship right now. I am really really happy with. And it's one of those things where i can confidently say like this is like the dream relationship that i could ever imagine and i don't think actually a lot of people could say that You know based on my experience you know. A lot of us are okay with mediocre relationship. And i think the reason why i was able to create this current relationship is because of all the dating experiences that i had including the people that i met a cough bagel and also like i would have never been able to go on lake I literally ran like hundreds of like first dates right through kaufman bagel and each connection.

00:35:03 - 00:40:02

I learned something. I learned something about how to build intimate connection. I learned something about meaning into hard conversation. I learned i learned so many things in. That definitely would not have been possible with the time that i was dating dating everything else going on. If it wasn't something as convenient as off dating app and so i guess indirectly it did actually contribute because it gave me so much experiences to learn from which ultimately contributed to my ability to create this current relationship that i have and you know like the the two relationships that i had was also really great but also there are a lot of painful moments as well like any other relationship that comes to an end eventually the last relationship before my current husband that led me to believe and led me to invest the time to learn the science of dating relationship before that relationship. I was all about even though you know as a as a dating founder i was all about. It's all about waiting and being meeting the right person. Like the right person will show up and then it's like bam that was kind of my mindset and then after that relationship was like well that's actually not true. Of course you have to meet somebody. Who's a good fit but you both actually have to work on so much in order for you. Actually get to the end goal. Which is the long term you know like a really happy fulfilling that that's not gonna just show up just because you met somebody and i spent ton of time. That was run. I know i became single again at thirty four and after going through like oh my god. I'm never going to find somebody like for comment. And that's what you'd be. Yeah but i thought i was like you know what. I don't think i'm doing this right. It's not just about a meeting a lot of people and meeting. You know like waiting for the right person to show up. Like i really have to get down understand the science of Relationship of what actually bakes love work because there has to be you know this has to be something that's been studied in. So i i started reading. So mitch matures. I started with sue. johnson Thought about theory attachment direct. For the first time. I thought it was really eye-opening and like just kind of went down the rabbit hole of lake. I was a psychology major. So i also reading like original research paper eventually. That impacted also how iran. kaufman's mega. Right it's not just about our algorithm encouraging like no surfacing the quality people but it's also like how do we actually make it easy for people to have the right conversation. How do we actually help them. Navigate dating better. Which is why. I launched a podcast so okay so long very very long winded. Answer to your original question which actually now. I'm kidding helped me tremendously. You know my dating app. Experience contributed a lot to my current grant relationship as well as like destiny of How we we started thinking about. If you're really serious about making long-term relationship work for people we need to do something more than just rely on our algorithm to surface the right people. And that's something i really appreciate about coffee meets bagel. It's that you all have presented your brand as a for people to connect better and to figure out what they want in a relationship and just a little back story. That was like what six seven years ago. When i used to do blog entries for you guys back in the day when i was still doing dating coaching and i remember being approached by your team and just saying we want to offer more tools for our users on how to date better and how to have the app work for them as opposed to like this end all be all destination. You're gonna find the love of your life. And i think you make a really great point is that it is one of the many ways you can meet people but it is a great resource for you to practice relating skills and set you up for success for relationship that maybe you don't meet on an app but you've gotten all the tools from the app. Yeah exactly and the. Now that we're seeing the end of covid hopefully end of everyone's coming out you know getting vaccinated and everything and for the last year. App activity has been really hot. Could you take us through. What are the trends that you're seeing during cova. And then maybe we can work on some like prediction or as people are coming out of covid. What are the neutrons will be saying right right. You know one of the biggest Changes that i've noticed about daters and how cool it is changing. Dating is the rise of video video. I mean this is very obvious. But like i don't know if you guys know this but we try. Cnbc be tried Introducing me right. Yes like years ago. We talked about it on our podcasts. Okay okay yeah because we're like you know what like again. Focusing on people were looking for a long term relationship like trying to genuine connection profile is really really difficult to convey who true self as so.

00:40:02 - 00:45:01

Why not just like have video feature that you use to provide snippet like three seconds of video is tells you hundred times more things about like your vibe and stuff like that then like reading the photos and profiles right. Didn't work and you know it could have been the way executed but like it was really difficult to get people. Try like video content. It was too scary to just you guys. There was other apps to not ready video right. And then when lee you know we started serving our users right when khalid started to take hold in the. Us which was march doesn't twenty. We immediately started serving our users. I hit water usually. What are you going through. And there were a bunch of different questions and one of the questions that included was. Have you tried using video as a video dating and only nine percent at the time in march league s i've ever tried by december. That number had gone up to forty four percents right yes. There was a five times increase in the number of people who have shaped try dating video dating and most people who have to try to think about eight percent or people said. I really enjoy it. Now what's interesting and this goes to prediction. We also asked. Hey are you enjoying it to the point where you think. You'll actually continue to video day before eliza meeting with the person even even after. Kobe is over like you feel complete safe meeting up whenever that is all. The summer in. The answer was very high. Like seventy eighty percent of people. Saying like i'm going to continue doing video dating because it's like so easy and whatever else but the most recent survey which is in march that number had fallen below fifty percent. And i think it's because people are just super zoom fatih alike. Who was really great. Like i highly recommended to everyone especially now. I think it's much better than like not engaging in any kind of meeting new people dating but like at some point you have to meet. And i think people are just. There's like a really just like big pent up energy and desire to be able to meet up like i you know we're all just tired. And so when the vaccination and we actually just added a feature called axion status that allows our data to indicate if you even vaccinated or not if you want you don't have to If you don't want to. Because we wanted to make it easy for people to have a conversation around vaccination in like colby like safety Sometimes it can be awkward to kind of bring you feel awkward to bring it up. I think with the vaccination being available like now. I think there is going to be a lot of people wanting to meet up. Do you have any numbers around how many people have opted to give their vaccination status so we started releasing only about two weeks ago and now about thirty percent of people have sold out so people that have got vaccinated not everyone. I know the choices are like. I haven't been a plan to show you. Answer the question. Even if you haven't been vaccinated but i can also see if you're not yet i don't wanna answer yet. A lot of data is kind of see this as like something that would be useful for. You know that you can make informed choices or this conversation around it. So when i get your take on this because like a lot of people at our facebook group are using online dating for the first time to us. That's crazy because we live in several of my god really but a lot of people have because of the pandemic. There's no meeting in real life anymore. Do you think these people are going to stay on dating apps because now they're like over the hump to there. See it as like another method or do you think they're like i want to beat everyone at anyone in real life. Now get off technology senses that like once you have tried dating apps and you've experienced how easy to be able to connect like even even when pre covid like everybody's busy like there's only so many parties in bars and whatever you can go out in you know in in a week right and so it does provide. The convenience is like the number one thing that like the dating apps offer is once you kind of get a taste of that. I think it's hard to go back. I can see people taking a break like. Oh you know what. Like now that i can go out. I'm just gonna like go out going out for a little bit and then go back to dating apps whenever i can see them taking a break. But i don't actually see people who have tried dating apps decided never to use it again because it's so convenient and easy so it now with vaccination status. That's one change that people can use are. Do you have any other predictions as we come out of covid any other activity. Changes behavior changes. How people are using the abs. And you trends that you can predict. Yeah one of the trends that we already started it.

00:45:01 - 00:50:01

I think it will continue because cuvette has been around for a pretty long time. It's not like it was like a one month two months now it's been over a year And so i think it will actually make a permanent mark on the psyche. All daters one of the things we're seeing is that in. I think it's like eighty percent plus or something like that have told us that they kuwait has made them think a lot more about reflect a lot more about life in general what they really really want what matters for you right and especially of course. It comes to dating in the type of people that i actually want to be with. I think people have become a lot more like longterm oriented versus before I think even even for those of us who want something more deeper and real like because everybody is on you know those wiping absolutely we. Just swipe and i think it's kind of easy to get into this routine without really thinking too much about like what is what what outcome does this actually generate and so a lot of people have started telling us. Hey i'm thinking a lot more about how i'm using dating apps. I'm thinking a lot more. But mcconnell partners i wanna have an taking a lot longer to actually choose. Wanna wanna meet up and so. I think it's actually making us Think more long term like be really more honest about what we want that trend. I don't think he's also gonna change or like go away. You know people just reflecting more and being more thoughtful about how they approach dating. I think is going to stay. I'll be. I think one of the things that i think i agree with you. That what people caught a get a taste of it. I mean we could see this culture like it'd be sure cities that have had day the apps forever. That what you get a taste of it you do see like how like you basically don't have to go out every night and you can meet people that you would've met otherwise. I think the bird question that a lot of people have maybe are newer dating apps her baby. Skeptical of data gaps. Is this is. How do you as a data gap founder at a ballots. The deeds of the user to get them off the data gap to beat up long term partner versus like the deeds of you as a business. I think that kept coming up for our audience. Yeah yeah yeah. This is interesting challenge because believe it or not. This is actually one of the most common questions i got from. Leicester's you're successful and you're so good at your job then you be going gonna get off so that's really bad for you so you you probably should not do too good job. Don't but the reality. Like i like reality is most people leave. Dating apps including coffee meets bagel. Not because they've found somebody but because they're so frigging frustrated. They're so frustrated by you. Know like the the results not happening outcome. And so they leave the people who actually find somebody and they they that And that's the reason why they leave when they leave before civil while they were on good platform. They're having such a good time telling or showing everyone right sure. They're spending money happy because they're like. Wow this actually works. And then when they get off they're telling literally everyone also they become like your biggest ambassador. Like i literally i just this past weekend. I met with a friend of a friend who happens to be a cnbc couple and she wrote me such a lake. Such a sweet letter about how this Be transformed her life But it was so heartwarming. I posted on my instagram. I know she's telling everyone over to you. And so the more cases like that we can create. It's going to be so much better for the business. And so i think people kind of forget that like as a business. Our old dating app owners like we need to wear so eager to find a way to get people to leave because they found somebody on our platform we see as objectively speaking. It is something that is very beneficial to the business for the reasons. I just shared versus when someone leave. Because they're tired they're just going to be talking bad about your your writing and word of mouth like customers. People only grows by word of mouth light now. We do very little marketing spending in so this is critical to our growth like just having more ambassadors. Who's going to advocate for us was because they're having a good time the other question i also get is like while you're helping people find love so why charge right men. You're kind of making it harder for people to find love which is true which is true. But also the our business we do have to generate revenue. We have to cover our 'cause we have to be profitable my kind of philosophy on that as like how do we. Actually we have a term like pays to subscribe like our revenue product manager. Came up with that like let's make subscription so worth while they feel like it pays it. It's the results are so much better than when i didn't subscribe that like i am very happy to pay.

00:50:02 - 00:55:05

Let's it to that state where people are just super happy to pay because the results speak for themselves. Yeah i remember these exact same conversations are shark tank and i was of the answers because i'm like yes that's exactly it. That's how a dating app should be thinking. Because one. I feel like as a consumer i feel like i get better product when i pay if i don't for some reason even if the product is the same i have this perception that it's not as good. So that's i totally understand the pay to play game plan and the other end of this too is a look at our facebook group. There's always questions about. Which app should i be using. And the people commenting are always the ones who either had a really good experience Really bad experience and the ones who had a really good experience. They are your hugest ambassador. Even though some of them have said all. I got off this app. Because i found someone or i've moved on. I had such a great experience on this app and boom thirty thousand people just saw. I know i just inflated that number just saw that comment and they're like ooh. I'm going to get on this app so i really. I really love that philosophy. Because it shows that it's not just the bottom line is actually aligned with looking for. I it totally totally forgot that you had were odd shark. Take that just like that. Was like such epic bovid. I burn you all. They're just to die. The buddy and i'm like wow these are bad ass with you. I think the other thing that seems to come up over and over again for people at our community at our listeners is what goes into this algorithm and he could share. I think people are just so yes. Yeah i know right. I get this. This is one of the more common questions. Also that i get and like area where i am the most actually because it is a proprietary information and they speaking like. It's so complicated. That i don't think i can't even articulate it myself lake. I have to rely on my my data scientists to actually be able to explain but several things that i can tell you is. We actually don't have only one algorithm. We have many and at any given point. All these algorithms are running simultaneously so that we can and it could also be like different like the racial different algorithms. that actually goes into building your q. Your inventory per se is different for different people. Because everyone has different preferences and some characteristics are way more for certain people right like you may care more about. I don't know somebody who's a one mile away versus. julie might care more about. I don't worry about distance. But i care more about like i don't know their interests like we have the same common hobby rates with. It's all very different. And so we have to be able to provide kind of like decipher that somehow be able to curate based on your wants and there's also the other side of okay you also have to be liked right so we can't just show you like all the people that you are going to like. We also have to have pretty good confidence level that you're going to liked back actually tries to relieve maximize for connection rate versus lie. Great and so the you know. Needless to say super complicated like a bunch of different algorithms running four different kinds of people like it's hard to kind of explain like oh yeah Algorithm works this way of the because dating so personal and our goal eventually is to be able to individualize right. We're not really there yet. But the more segmentation we can do the better. You know what. I find this fascinating. My friend and i were both on cnbc at the same time and she loved giving me her leftovers. I would call them because she didn't and i took offense to it but the people she sending me show. I had never seen them before on the to me. I mean we were of the same person were in the same age range. I thought we'd be served up the same people had never seen them. And now i realized why because they were not my time report. But i do want to ask this question. And this is something that my my asian friends and i have always had discussions around because for any of my asian friends who wanna find high quality asian singles to date and be relationships with c. n. b. is the go-to app and among this group of friends. They they kinda coinate as the asian dating app is do you think this is because of the algorithm it serving up what you're looking for or is it. Do the numbers actually show that there are more asian users so you fly look get like the makeup of our app. It's not that different from the general population. Maybe a little bit over representative in the asian category because is a function of meeting founder the asian founder and then like we started with are my friends which i had a lot of asian friends and then like because we grow through word of mouth.

00:55:05 - 01:00:03

You'll need that kind of kind of built that way but it's not like we've heard some people you know. This is not the first time. I actually heard this comment. I think like coffee is like ninety percent asian or something like that but it like or minority in the us. And i'm just talking about a the. Us right now into this just not possible maybe slightly over represented but not by not by much. It's probably a function of will carry the way the algorithms caridi by algorithm. It doesn't look any different than any other app of odd just like the ratios are pretty even today. But i've definitely heard that for girlfriends. Also so i guess the question i have. We got this from one of our listeners. They were wasn't about the abi specifically but they made a general combat like. Hey education's really important to me yet. I never see again at iwo. That's highly educated. Like is there a way that people could kind of trade. The algorithm like you were saying earlier. What supported by different. That you a like. Is there ways to put those like preferences in the algorithm pick set up by learning from your choices with the best way to train dogs them. Is you actually giving it as many data points as possible by making liking or passing decision. And even though it's not asking you why are you choosing this right. It is trying to decipher on the machine. Learning is trying to decipher so bore. Data points has the bore pattern. it's easier. it's going to be able to decipher the pattern. Like he only as tended appoints to work wrestling. It's not gonna be able to figure out why you're y you passed on these ten people raking needs to be able to figure out the pattern for that to happen in. You need good amount of data so the best thing that your friend can do is actually coming in like like or pass. Make the decision so the machine can register. Actually that's like a perfect follow up because there is like another question like we've all seen you joy to do. App your showed all the time. You seem to get the most batches at that stage. I was wondering like is there. Eddie fig it. I guess you kinda answered answer like the bore. You interact with an app. Does that go into like how more often you're shown so it's not yes and also like do consider one of the factors that algorithm does consider his activity level. And so if you're somebody who doesn't come in allot like i mean for example. We actually even automatically deactivate. Because you don't wanna show somebody who's like day stale right bagel wouldn't and then like we show you to somebody else and they like but then you're not gonna come in and you're still. This person is not going to respond. It's just not fair so we're gonna eventually deactivate use your activity. Level does matter if you're really just not convenient Even complete stop showing you. But i can't also say like if you answer every day you more. We're going to show you two more and more people to certain extent but it's not exactly works that way like street straightforward Reward level. So i think overall just for the algorithm to know you better and to certain extent tiffany level will influence. How often you get shown for the reason that i shared extent. What do you think is a better approach. Let's say you go for weeks without being too thrilled by who you're being served up. Do you think it's better to change your preferences. So that a chain Shakes up the algorithm or is it better to try to figure out why coffee meets bagel is giving you. These people may be diving deeper into into these people. That are your current choices. I would recommend the. I like deuce stuff. That's within your control like it's going to be really hard to guess what the machines doing right there. Couple of things. That are just true. Like if you don't know your your preferences so narrow that i mean even if cough awkward means like freaking amazing is there's only ten people we can curate from. You're just going to see those ten people right sir. The algorithm is only power. If there's enough people that we can actually curry like and filter to down to right if you're like have all this bunch of criteria like i don't wanna meet somebody who's like i on the block away or something like that that that is going to be not as powerful Like we talked about it. If it's the data episode like must have like really be clear on must haves and nice to have right. Like i think for that reason that's really important and then and then like i would do a lot of different other things to us. You can do it once a time to see what works. You can experiment the first photo to seize that actually kind of changes. Something can with what you write us to see. Like order of things and things like that. Let's take a short break from this. Riveting conversation olive audi heating absent profiles for quick message. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships.

01:00:03 - 01:05:01

Have you recently decided that you want to make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reentered the dating scene. Maybe you've gone on one too. Many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one on one. Coffee dates with a monthly dateable. Live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating. Sherpa us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcasts dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo. I just curious because you said that. Like how long do you have to be inactive to get booted. Erlich what his time frame. What did you become a stale big. All i wanted to. I think the actually i mean it's actually relieved done at pretty narrowly. So i think it's like fourteen days days. Yeah and we notify you. It's not like we don't tell you we also give you a communicate. We try to communicate through emails or or even push messages to like. Hey like we're not seeing that you're actually coming to check. We're going to deactivate you just because we want to make sure that our communities active like for showing active people. I mean that's great because people always could play that like half the problem like the swipe apps is that these people might not be effort active. So i think that's really green two year that you are proactively trying to get ahead of that and then what about this like flip flop behavior of people installing and installing. We hear this all the time taken. Dating sabbatical vince uninstalled. And two hours. Later they're back on data on these. I call them. Flip loppers but this kind of activity. I don't have a specific stats. I can share. I made a very common thing. And i think it's a healthy thing ray like if you are not feeling jazzed you know i. I know one of the dating tips that you give us like attitude matters a lot right like editor when you show up on the first date editors allow when you're actually approaching using dating apps to rate so a lot of matches that you would have said yes to if you are in a good positive mind said everyone looks bad right if very know not so great mindsets within you would just pass some people and like call from. It's like when once you say no it's not like they are going to go back and show this person again right then you. You may have wasted this person who could have been a really good fit because you were just kind of in that not in that mood. You're just kind of like. I'm just going to swipe left on everyone kind of mood and so taking a break is really good. If you're feeling tired and not really like hundred percent. I mean you were talking about earlier. That's actually detrimental for you as a business to have these kind of haters of the app out. This gruntal needs. I mean we we say this. All the time fully champion. That people tend to believe apps as the scapegoat. When a lot of it really has to do with your own self. I guess it from your perspective. What some advice that you give to people to kind of have a better user experience a change that mindset would use it get app yeah will first of all thank you for saying that we do get blamed on were our customer experiencing with two like interact with a lot of customers Angry there's a lot of people were grateful when we also get bottoming ensure angry email. And i always tell my team like. Let's think of it as a good thing because amines are really emotional. Invested into our product and into dating and so of course with a lot of expectation in a lot of optimism. When you have that doesn't materialize. You're really disappointed right. And so i actually heard somebody saying like cynical. The was optimistic because that means they just had a huge like high expectation. And they're just disappointed right. I guess often mystic way. I'm i mean. I think it's much better than like very you know. I don't really care about coughing. People like that that attitude right and this engaging with us with a lot of emotion so it's it's a good thing but some of the things that i think that i would share his one like do take a break like make. Sure that when you're using it you're using it for real Some of my friends icy the way they're using it like they're very tired. They but they still feel like they feel obligated to get on there.

01:05:01 - 01:10:06

They're using it because they're very tired like they don't when they connect they don't they. Don't send messages. They don't respond right away. They don't like they don't take action into the momentum dies and the again like this connection to could have gone. Some marriages goes nowhere and with dating apps. You have to remember that. Everybody even on coffee platform Greats things our curated curated like there's a lot of people to go through right in their new. Some people have a lot of connections to go through. And if you this signaling impact is really big like some people like my friends complained like how come people don't respond like they're not chatting and i see the way they engage with the app and it's like when they connect they don't say anything then three days like or when they receive The three days go by and when when you kind of use dating apps that way like the other person's gonna immediately just conclude that you're not interested like you're not you don't know this person you're kind of texting off your you know that you're like both of you're using dating apps and can connect with other people and so a lot of us are looking for signals from the other person that they're they're really serious about me. They're they're really interested in me if they don't actually sense that they're just going to move on and so you know if you're kind of doing it out of out of obligation not fleeing and engaging in such debt like forty eight hours go by are responding then. Nothing's ever gonna happen that i would emphasize what about the people that are putting the effort like we hear a lot of people that are frustrated by the hayes and no response after or flakes. Start off bassett just disappear like things that actually are hubert behavior but get the app gets blamed for. What's your take on that any ways to cut like minimize that bad experience. Yes so if you're engaging in you're still having bad experience and you know. I think that a lot of times you could be at right like maybe we're not surfacing the right person or that we. I think definitely we have to be do a better job. Connecting you with people who are many comes to chat like really really engaged we can only control like what we can control. So what i would kind of recommend is kinda. Take a look at how you're chatting like talking to me. Who is the flirting expert. That you go. Yeah yeah yeah yeah me. She was so awesome and we talked about how a lot of times like the How ship serves her clients. Engaged is like a ping-pong match right like you. You say hey. They say hey. How was your weekend. He was good like like he's just. There's no there's no fun or playfulness. In which which is the point of dating right. That's what everyone is like even though we may not be articulating it. That's that's that's the energy that we're looking for is playful like we're kind of like playing off of each other kind of energy but like you. I just kind of answering cuny kinda thing than we're not gonna get there. And so like i would take a look at like okay. So why isn't what i'm saying. Illicit a response right is it might kind of engaging in an interview style question. The by gov response am my actually like being playful enough flake meeting on dating apps. Which means you know. People are interacting with different folks. And so how. Can i actually send a message in a way that stands out and like make the other person to want to respond. Could listen to our whole episode that we did with you. Hey the wound. Do you have any tips for people who can do make changes now right now. That can improve their match rate or improve the algorithm for example. Are there certain photos that do well opening lines or something. They should include in their profile. Yes so photo matters a lot. These are like basic basic online. Dating tips auto matters a lot. Especially your first photos. Like i find that a lot of us spend a lot of time like carefully picking the photos but if the first photo is actually really good one then a lot of people don't even swipe like don't even like actually go through the second third photos. We doesn't even matter what your second third photo photos are so first photo. Make sure that your faces are visible. You're smiling in like the best thing is to actually ask the person wherever is like if you're looking for men than ask your guy france your men looking for woman as Female friends men can promote like whatever the type of the sexual preferences are like. You just asked that people because the photos of we think where we look good. Oftentimes isn't actually the best like muslim. Attractive looking photo for the other category So so i would actually get people's input icy like for example also especially my girlfriend's because like we we have a lot of photos and we look actually really good embarrassed if we put photo you know.

01:10:06 - 01:15:01

I highly advise against that because the like sometimes people are just so busy that they don't even want to bother like the. You're trying to figure out which one you are right so tickled at your first photo to make sure that you know it's really good. Your profile also like surprising. A matters a lot especially for woman like the dating experience for woman. is very different than guys right. A lot of women have this baggage experience of like guys not being serious and so the the things that people write a profile they take it as a signal of how serious you are in so Profile is very important. You don't have to write an essay right That it's filled out the few sentences and make sure it's a good conversation starter at you almost think like think of your a conversation starter like is there something that is like personal enough for the other person to be able to grab onto it start conversations around and so that's a good test for a how interesting your profile if something like your friend and sister and brother could've written than it's not personal enough preferences is a big one like make sure that you again like the wider the preference. Of course if it's something that's important to you have to put it in the better that algorithm can do a good job like creating. because there's there's a larger pool to work with. I've you either of you heard of the site called photo. Feeler dot com no. What's oh i actually used. I was trying fake. Remember what it was called while you were talk so it's basically a site that you could submit your photos. You could pick your demographic of like who you're interested in you get ratings odd your photos so it was all anonymous people but like it was i did it was like you have to pay for it but i could quickly see like which photos were resonated with people in which ones worse so. It's like a very good way to like be able to prioritize your photos or lose some completely rotation. Oh it's like oh more useful hot or not. Yeah it's like a basically getting like a panel that you're paying for you get credits based off your fan panel. I will note that it's a little addicting at first like ten dollars max. I've probably spent like thirty dollars. A similarly useful. I don't know yeah. Yeah you julie. That's so interesting. You mentioned that because we actually used to have. I've forgot what we called it a feature where you could. You could submit photo for the community. Vote on But yeah for that because we really wanted to help. People hit the right photo because photo so important. I think what we didn't do well these like actually limiting to the segment of people who are looking for that that's important. It was kind of like open for everyone to provide feedback yet. But that that's a really good tool every week atop to you like all day. But i like the last cut question before we go into some of our takeaways for anyone that either you or you've been in relationships from data gaps included coffee meets bagel But any of your like eddie of your clients already anywhere. That uses the apps or fred's like is there any advice that you give some. That's come out the other side. It had a serious successful relationship. Audit a gap. Yes and you know this is the thing that made the most difference for me. So that's why i'm sharing. It applies to dating apps per se. it's just applies to people. Were dating in general. I think investing in our communication skill being able to actually articulate whether you're a chatting on cnbc dating app or texting or meeting in person. What our view allies as again the connections that could have gone to maryland really beautiful connections. That could have happened. Don't happen because we don't articulate what we're feeling we don't ask the right question. We're not curious enough to engage and ask people the questions to ask in order to really understand other person. We just make conclusions about them like they're not interested or they're this they're that and then kind of move on if you learn to actually approach people with curiosity versus just making conclusion on your own In especially the early stage where we don't really know each other if you also learn to take the union to uncomfortable situation in also be able to share how you're feeling. I think that actually has made the most of difference in terms of my dating life and be being able to take the connections that i make on dating apps to the next level whether or not we end up in a long term relationship by like invest in that that communication skill. I think academically huge difference to your dating life whether you're using dating apps or not like that that's wonderful. I think we learned quite a bit from this. Conversation is so great to get an insider's view into looking dating apps because we here here's my takeaway. I think we take dating apps for granted.

01:15:01 - 01:20:02

Think about people. There's a whole business built around finding you love. This is all they care about. Their whole team is working night and day to find you good matches so why don't we take the same amount of energy into what we put into the apps how we look at people how we use the apps so my take away is i think we can all be a little bit more mindful when we interact with dating apps for example. I always like to say treat it like an event when cnbc serves you up the curated people for you. If you can cast onto your tv it said alarm at eight. Pm and be like my matches our curated for me. Now i'm going to projected onto my tv. A making event out of it because the people working behind the app want you to have that climatic moment being like this could be someone or this could be a really great match. So i think just being more mindful and putting in the effort of how you interact is so it will make a make it a much more positive experience personally for me. Something that's worked in. The past is putting my phone in gray scale and swiping or not swiping or looking at photos and profiles that way so it kind of puts everyone an even playing field and it gives you a different experience of how you absorb the The information and what you notice sometimes with colors you get distracted by the background or the color of their shirt. But if it's all in gray scale you notice these distractions and my very last takeaway. Is i think it's it. Goes back to this idea of using dating apps as a tool to not just to find love because that may not be our end goal it may not just be about being in a relationship but to find to use dating apps as a tool to relate better to other people and to hone in on our communication skills and to make the apps work for us instead of us blaming the apps that were not feeding the apps enough information. If we're talking about open communication you got to also openly communicate with the apps by constantly changing your filters right preferences etcetera because nobody can read your mind there. No predictions being made here and everyone again is working as hard as they can to find you the right matches. Yeah i i mean my biggest takeaways. I've always been very pro. David gap so. This is like a revelation from this but i think what is a revelation is how much you're actually putting so much effort. It defied a people. These batches like really trying to kind of be their ally. Add love it. I love this whole part about you know. It's actually a successful. we find success for people. I think nobody people think that like dating apps of the devil because it's a business trying to get all the stuff. And i think like this really shows that that is not the case in actually. Just think it's all in your mindset like our takeaway for everything but it really is with d. the gaps because like you said if you look at it as a tool that's like as another way to meet people like ido. I've had the best success with data. Guess what it's like. What of many ways of meeting that. I've also able to me. Like oh i would never bet you if it wasn't for the state a gap like what a gift it's like. How do you frame this opposed to like like. Oh another day. I have to go. Swipe through resilient batches like obviously. That's not going to be fun for you. So i think like i think a lot of people are trying to find that silver bullet of what photo do i put up. And obviously there's tips that you mentioned of how dot to like totally sat up but there is no like wide thing that you do. It's really how do you perceive this app. It helping you. That's ultimately the end of the day gonna be the experience you have is. How do you view it joy do get like. Are you like excited to be there. You excited to start. Conversations beat these people or is it a chore for you because it is a chore than no app is gonna ever make you happy and solve. The problems is it. Goes deeper the bad. It's therapy therapy. Is exactly exactly the last question i have for you that i wish we'd been asked at the beginning. Why the dave's coffee meets bagel. Yeah so i will meet. i started. We were targeting. Young professionals were busy at work and one of the most effective athlete curation based app. Though the way kaufman spit will work every day at noon beekeeper batch of people right which we call bagels so we wanted to cultivate this habit of like waiting for noon as something that you're really looking forward to that and then you kinda family open it. I guess kind of like an event like you just mentioned and so were like okay. What's one thing that everyone looks forward to like. If you're young professionals at work coffee break what goes well with coffee. We chose bagel as an austin york city. Because that's very very new york.

01:20:02 - 01:25:05

Yes i i thought. It was a jewish dating site. Because i was like we get that a lot to actually are early user base. We had a lot of jewish daters as well. I think because people thought he was a jewish dating off those trigger. This every i remember i was like this really bad too dirty and i was at the spar and i was trying to get out and i was like leaving for him in the bathroom. At sub rita girl was like you should try. Coffee beats fake on. What is this. She's like you should try this app. Local in the shed in san francisco. You happen to be there. Your here's a very serious question in the near future when people have sworn off caffeine and gluten. Have you thought about what an alternative names with us would be like an avocado. Every city had a different name based. We actually seriously thought about that. Like especially in cultures were bagels are not available coffees per universal Should be changed name or not but we decided to stick with because i think bagels are getting popular in coffee. You if you don't drink coffee like there's like yeah you know like it smells so nice. It's cozy up so we covered about a beagle that's for sure people last takeaway. We're really into copy. All right now is actually connie. Just say thank you so much for your time. This was a so informative and helpful. And i hope for a lot of listeners eye opening just to unveil what goes behind the scenes at cnbc at an dating apps. And you also have your own podcast. Call save the date. How can people access that podcast. Yeah so you can. You can listen to save the date by using any tools that you use for typical. Like on podcast. Spot is available in spotify apple. Podcast also be post clips on our like instagram channels. So that you can get kind of like a preview of it if you're interested in if you want to get like a little short version before you dive into the full Episodes rumor has it. That the dateable girls were also on on your packages reality into like how to brig those cod vos from the screwed. So if you're looking for that additional that's like the next thing to listen to after you finish this episode. yeah. I really excited for that. Episode was such an informative once and for all all of our listeners. You know for us to get these exclusive conversations like the one we're having right now. Those apple podcasts reviews. Really help us. So you can give us five stars and a nice little sentence or two again. A just really helps us curate of really wonderful guest list of people who we can interview. So thank you again for your time. I know that it's rough out there in hawaii so please stay same as you go to the beach and get your tan on. Thanks for having me super fine. And then we'll wrap this up the dateable. Podcasts is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcast. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag any post with a hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium. Why series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums for also downloadable. For free on spotify apple podcast. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable unless you've been living under a rock. You've probably been hearing a lot about the stock market lately. Millions of people are beginning to invest for the first time ever and we're realizing that the financial system should be built to work for us. And that's why robin hood is creating real. Human education resources truly digestible financial news and a platform. That leads you invest in your own way on your own terms. The next generation of investors is already here and include you robinhood investing is risky robinhood financial.

01:25:05 - 01:25:37

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