S12E13: Is it Love or Love Bombing? w/ Dr. Diane

00:00:01 - 00:05:07

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hello everyone welcome to another upset. Dateable a show all about modern dating where we dig dig dig into the whys of people's behavior and why they say the shit that they do even if it's good shift is always no matter right. Good shit there can be good shit shit just like a new term for stuff condos lives all the word that comes up all encompassing a. Yeah we had a really great couple last episodes really showcasing our hosts that we have in our sounding board group that lead the podcast discussion groups in the weekly happy hours. And now we've kind of announced that we're we've upgraded them to also be moderators in the public love in the time of krona group. So it's really nice. Hearing all their stories to getting to know them at like an even deeper level. And what. I really loved about these interviews is that we learn about their plan postcode What are they playing to do with their love. Lives post covid. What did they learn during covid that they're taking into this new reality and it just reminds me of the transition time that we're in right now julian i both have had Our second shots. So were i guess at this point fully vaccinated and i feel like half new superpowers in someone says so last night. Until you this julie. i was out My boyfriend and i were out in culver city. This is where we live now and ran into someone that has seen in over ten years. Someone i knew a new york. Oh wow we were standing in line together. He had his mask on. And i was like. Maybe that's so this is what happened. We were both in line together. I was pulling up his facebook as he's deeming me on instagram. Like 'cause i just want to confirm where he was a he. Dm you said. Are you in line with me right so we were like what the fuck like what world and so our first conversation was are vaccinated or you good. We established that and then he and his wife asked us to join them for dinner so it was like. Oh my gosh first. Time meeting up with basically new people in over a year. It was so weird. It was so crazy to sit down with people who weren't in my quarantine pod. That energy is definitely shifting for sure and i think a lot of people like i've definitely heard people like really going on a lot more dates to recently because i think there is. You know it's the feeling of more security with at all. Yeah like there's it's definitely feels like we're moving forward. So hopefully i keep hating to say even like with our dating post pandemic. i always feel like we're like a little. And i don't want to like say we're not out of the woods completely but there's definitely been a shift. I mean now like you'd basically don't even need to wear a mask like that's the latest which is kind of interesting. I wasn't really expecting that. I thought we'd be wearing masks for a lot longer. But let people start kissing again. Bring the pda back. Yeah they were like std's or all cured in euro vaccinate from std's. If i stop wearing condoms be i think i mean there's stuff you know i love to like brass take taco by free type but like all this stuff about like hot girl sever see all these like weaves basically like people going buck wild the suburb because they've been cooped up for a year like it's gotta be crazy. It's going to be interested to see how people react. I do feel like a new person though after being vaccinated. And i think you and i should both talk about our second shot experiences because it seems to vary so much in. Everyone's very curious. So if you haven't had your second shot. I'll tell you my experience i have madonna. I got it at three pm. And that night. I felt fine. Didn't feel much of a side effect. I woke up the next day with a massive heading like my head was about to explode as really crab in a terrible mood. I wish i had just taken the day off. But i'm land meetings back to back to back and i was not myself. I really felt close to death. I was like i hate life. You had that back. Because i told you i was like i have a heady. Yeah a which. I guess relatively to other people symptoms that. I've heard it's not that bad but to me. A headache is just debilitating to me. I can't think straight. I can't i just can't be my normal self and that night. I took a really strong edible really strong edible in knocked me out in the next day.

00:05:07 - 00:10:03

I woke up like a brand new person. I felt so happy. I drank some coffee and i just felt like i could take on the day so i do feel like i have transformed into a new person. Well i loved what you were like. I'm just going to drink a lot of water. Like i don't know if that's gonna really preventive you're gonna get. You felt this way julie. I was so thirsty all day. Su extremely thirsty and just hungry. I couldn't stop drinking or eating. I honestly i had very little effects at all i- adviser and i didn't have many effects from it. I had like a small headache but it wasn't like i get headaches from looking at the computer. It was no worse than that. Yeah i think relatively. We both netted out pretty well. I know people who've been in bed for four days. How get out of bed and who feel like who truly feel like shit so just so you know. Be prepared with tylenol or a painkiller. After you get your shot does help and if you do edibles. I highly recommend them. Just basically anything that does knocks you out. So you don't have to feel the pain. I was like i feel like that's dot. Cdc guided at all. i think they're purposely. Don't drink don't have like any like you know anything that's going into your body in some sort of way that's gonna sit up so i guess do that at your own risk. I'm not a doctor. I'm only speaking from experience. Edibles i would take nyquil but basically or just get punched in the face like just knock me out. Put me out of my misery. So i can wake up the next morning feeling brand new and fresh well speaking of big punch to the face. What's what kind of transition is bad. I'm nervous violence so much worse than it really is. I was just gonna say we have eight the episode in store. That's with love. fav egg bunch. I feel like. I built that way too much. What happened to you this week. Quite then thinking of getting into the vast figuratively literally for place to explain. I don't know. I just think like okay well. I super excited to do this topic. Actually we have dr diane who we've been following for quite some time on instagram sliding into each other's dm's quite a batch learning time. But i feel like this topic of love bombing. I'm so glad we're doing it. Because i've heard so many people use this in the last year that this person's love bombing me and i feel like i've even been guilty of thinking that too. I like that. We actually like set it straight of what it really is. And what is the difference of he. Does someone getting ahead of their feelings versus actually like manipulative love bombing. So i think it's a really good way to differentiate that i think we actually got like a few questions in the facebook group like about like you know like things are moving really fast. They're doing well. But like should i be scared of love bombing so i think this will be really good for a lotta people but the reason i think of like i don't know i just get any face you're like i don't know i think like you know like some dating like it's not an actual getting punched in the face but like you know like when you think of certain data behavior that you're just like what is the association with that like i think of love. Bob is probably one of the worst. Because it's like someone is like controlling and manipulating you drew actual of bombing and i feel like it kind of is this like in the face feeling of like i feel dumb because i fell for it type. That's of like what went through my mind. Yeah love bombing is tricky. We talked about in this episode. Because you feel good but then at the same time you're like should i feel good about this and there is a thin line between love bombing and someone who genuinely genuinely cares about. You wants to do nice things for you. So this is why. It's such a great episode. Because we make those differences very clear so you recognize the signs and symptoms. If you're getting punched in the face or a nice stroke in the face of positive love. It was a couple episodes ago. We talked about how you got the card. Oh my right. Waiter the red card so sh of our members shelby. She was saying that she actually does this. She goes around and leaves. People like these nice cards to brighten their day. And i feel like hers isn't even like a hitting on you way has a significant other and i think even before she had the significant other was never like that way. So maybe that who knows what that guy's attention with you but anyways i've put it up on youtube for everyone to see so he sent she basically was like who wants a card and she was like damning and she's like would you want what like.

00:10:03 - 00:15:00

Yeah absolutely this is so sweet. So she sent. This card is a nice rainbow on it for some sunshine today. Okay on its handmade right. No the card. The cardis papyrus like the ham. Those those i've about to reveal that he had made part okay inside. Oh hello beautiful hello beautiful. I'll read it so everyone could see you trying to read it. Anyone like you a like screen like your grandma store artist. Orange so okay. So shelby's card. Hello beautiful eighty is an active vulnerability exposing your flaws. Straits wants and desires to a stranger. Dating with kindness is a wonderful way to let another soul know that their heart is in good hands during your time together in that there is still acceptance since generosity and love in the world live in kindness. Be kind and stay. Dateable like goodness. I got it today like this is the most amazing thing it also came with like this beautiful envelope. And i'm like i actually kind of like forgot. The association that she sent it was sending this. Yeah so i'm like what. Am i getting the mail that i did. So much joy i of lee and it really was and personalized shelby. M waiting for mine and she used dateable colors to. She asked me what my favorite colors were. And i was like oh eight. Those are as they should be. There are deeply ingrained in. I had a heart. It's funny we had a conversation. This is this is at hand. But it's all related. We had a conversation with louise the other day and she's like at what point should you know someone's favorite color. I won't give away the details. But she's like someone don't freaking. I don't even know his favorite color. Like what and then we shall. We asked me about my car. She's like what's your favorite color. I didn't even know either. I know like which i like. Just subconsciously set purple teal. Because it's something. I see a lot the god like. I don't really though by favorite color is i know so funny sonar the deep he rooted once but i am happy to report back though swimming. Louise is that. I did actually go on my boone rise. We talked about this. We re recorded on saturday and it actually turned out. It was like the pink. Super moon was on monday. I gotta seize the opportunity and it was. It was such a beautiful and like robotic dice. State so i could see someone day which has been really great. He's pretty private. I'm not gonna go into too much details but it's just it's he has been wonderful so i'll leave it at that while that's all we need to hear julie but you gotta give us the behind the scenes of how you got to move refugees. So there's a bit of a leader not know about louise's failed to mention this in the activity. This is the problem when you take advice from fred's of like eggs you should do. You do your own research. Sometimes things get left out. Apparently there isn't easy like it was in this park corona heights. And there's like an easy steps up that's like very easy to navigate. There was still Was super easy to navigate. It was still pretty frigging high up like this is actually a super cool park like you could see. The whole view of san francisco from there wasn't even a part. It was like rocks and stuff like it was not what i was expecting in the slightest grass. It was not it in anyways. First world problems as expecting grass for we were walkie. Yup and it was quite the hike like quite the hike op. Ed i was like. I don't think i would be able to do this in the evening when it's pitch black so we did the stairs down but the problem was it did not go to where we were parked at all so it was quite a godly got lost. It's got a little lawsuit. Is it a venture. It was an adventure. The whole was adventure is no super dice. Definitely an adventure. Were you dressed for it. Yes okay. That's i wasn't like not dressed for but i wasn't expecting a hike in this like it was a little bit of a surprise. Maybe that was louise's plan all along. It's not so much about getting to the top to see the moon rises. Like really how you get there and get back down the ultimate exactly. That sounds like fun. I went to see the moon rise to. Oh yeah my parents door. Just open the door like oh. Hey look. we're in the suburbs. Then you can see the moon really well. That's great and it was a. It was a romantic. Yes with my parents. But i was inspired by that too. I thought that was like perfect. Timing and it is just like romantic to stare at the moon.

00:15:00 - 00:20:09

Something we don't do all the totally. Was you know what i loved about this. It was a date. I would never think to do this. So i think that's what i mean. That's what dateable does it opens your mind to do ideas for anyone. That's you know hasn't heard that last episode where we mentioned this. It was actually just the episode. One ago right. I got on this quick. Yeah he was like like somewhat of the group is like the celtics cool idea. And i think i actually did. It were so it was i asked. It was but we had an event part of the sounding board to go through like really like interesting data ideas with our past. Jeff harry and honestly i love it because like i definitely am someone that's may be more guilty to like basic ideas and i thought this was really interesting and different. You know something else. I thought about what would be a great fun. Date idea that we don't discuss often are lake. Double dates dates with your friends are so much fun a my partner and i are going on a double date tonight with two friends and then we have no plan than just dinner and then just let you see what happens when you have more people involved. It could be a totally group. Danes day bring group or back. Just kidding i know what else do we have going on this week. Other than love bombing. We've talked about our hose. How we talked to our vaccine shots. I mean it's a lot actually yes. Let's get to our question you know are do. Our nude segment are nudist segment youtube growth. We've already decided that but no for real are do segment is going to be answering some of the questions that you all send us so again. You can always send us hello debatable. Podcasts dot com. Hit us up on Dm's on instagram. We love hearing from you all and also of course the facebook group love in the time of corona is a great place to surface these questions. But let's get to our one today that you know we get all the time. This is a big one. The question is how do you know when you're moving too fast by comes the dating so it's very much related to love bombing very much related to turbo dating another topic that we've covered and it's a tricky one because you want things to move along because a lot of our complaints are about stalled dating knocking the text back not seeing each other. I r l. But when all these things to do happen sequentially and frequently. You're like ooh. It's just moving too fast. So i my answer to this is it's a gut check. Do i feel like. I am on this boat. That's being road by someone else. Or do i feel like i'm rolling this boat with someone. So part of what feels like it's moving too fast. Is that. I just got on this boat and it's moving you know like wh. Where's it going where we headed. Is this a safe boat. Do i feel stable in this boat. Who's driving this boat no matter there's like no rules around all if you do this within the first three days you're moving too fast. It's all based on a gut check. And if you feel like you're taking control of that boat it's probably moving too fast. Yeah are both people on the same page to. I think like you know if the one driving it in the other person's going along with it that's when it can start to like backfire. Also i think a good rule of thumb to. It's like i'm totally the same way. It's like there's no hard fast rules of how often you should see someone and how often you should talk. Like everyone is different and also depends like what else they have going on in their lives. I'm personally like a believer though is like i mean. I've always been this way even in relationships like i don't i like to preserve my life the way it was before. I obviously want to make room for the new person in my life and they're going to be a priority but i don't wanna just like stop seeing my friends stop like doing my passions like stop working out like basically like Change my lifestyle to accommodate a new person. So i think the moment that i feel like something is moving too fast is when i feel like losing myself so as long as i can balance doing my stuff the way i had been in seeing someone new and maybe that is like cutting back in certain areas a little to accommodate someone new coming into your life but i think completely like getting rid of everything. That's when i feel like it's moving too fast. Yes and that's a really good point because if you feel like you're sacrificing something like are you sacrificing your identity your life your freedom. Then maybe you're not exactly on the same page with the person you're in this boat with right. But if you feel like you're sacrificing or you're holding back on something like you're holding affection or holding conversations because you don't want it to move too fast then i would do another check in like maybe you're not aligned with what the pace should be.

00:20:09 - 00:25:04

You'd like have these ideas of how how fast a relationship should move the obviously. There's a disconnect somewhere so you feel like you're sacrificing in any area. There is a problem there. Hopefully that answers your question on whether you're moving too fast or not a case so quick stu a really quick run through of announcements that. We'll have a quick message from our partner but high level announcements. We've been keep saying this but definitely check out of the tie kuroda. One day we're going to have to change the name for now we'll keep it going and then you know the sounding board is where it's at get to know our hosts that you got to know through the episode even better there. Was this great happy hour thursday. We do them every thursday. There's podcast discussion groups every sunday. The one for love bombings going to be super juicy so definitely want to get in on that and we had a great one. Last night there was janice shield e and he sela were the hosts so we kind of alternate our hosts up and people were saying like new people that joint how fun it was and how great it was to like shoot the shit and talk about dating and relationships and just life with new people. I think at the end of the day. It's all about forming connections. We've said this zillion times but like it's not all. It's not always a romantic connection. It's just human connection overall will get the chance. Also subscribe to our youtube channel. That's where you'll get to see you. Shelby's car that she made for us and the random faces that we make when we've film whom he record these intros because a lot of it is in our nonverbal communication and you get to see my new hair. I'm like so excited. Highlights all right. Let's move on to a quick message from our sponsor. This episode is made possible by pros. There's no one size fits all when it comes to shampoo and conditioner. We need products that are suited for our unique needs. And don't leave us disappointed. Case in point my hair turned super frizzy and wavy in my twenties. And none of my old hair care products were effective anymore. So now thanks to my personalized pros shampoo and conditioner even pre shampoo mask. I've fallen in love with my harrigan. Pros creates customize haircare products for people. Not hair types. You'll never have to compromise on healthy hair goals because every products formula is made with you in mind they're online quiz dives into every conceivable factor. That affects your hair held such as your family. History diet even zipcode. Yes since moving to l. a. The pollution has totally affected the quality of my hair. So with over fifty billion formula combinations. Pros can give you a unique blend of ingredients that caters to your every strand and follicle pros is a healthy hair regimen with your name all over it. Take your free in-depth hair quiz and get fifteen percent off your first order today. Go to pros dot com slash dateable. That's p. r. o. s. e. dot com slash dat ab b. l. e. for your free in-depth hair quiz and fifteen percent off a so. Let's hear it from dr diet. So what is love bombing. That's what this episode is all about. And we're so excited to have dr diane with us who we've been in correspondence with over instagram for a long time. We feel like you know. It's a weird relationship right because it's all virtual. It's all through instagram. Dm's and now we're actually talking face to face so let's see if this relationship translates in real life when you say in real life you still be virtual exactly virtual and we'll be interesting. You talk about love bombing over virtual dating to so we'll get into this topic. But who is dr diane. She currently lives in northern california. She's been there for over thirty years originally from chicago. She's married and she's in her fifties a psychologist writer and attachment expert. She can be found on instagram where we found her at back to love. Doc you can go to back to love doc. Back to love. Doc dot com. That's really hard to say. Doc dot com. It is and take her love style quiz. I'm actually in the middle of it. It's ten questions and you'll get a better understanding of your love style. But today we're talking beloved bombing. What is love bombing. Do you love using this term. I on it now. I feel like this is why. I think it's really the right time. And you you kind of alluded to it with virtual. I feel like before virtual times with dating. I thought like oh. You have to be naive to be loved bombs like i kind of felt like i was above it a little like i'll admit but what i've realized it is. It is very possible to be susceptible to love bombing. And i've heard this term thrown around a lot in the last year.

00:25:04 - 00:30:08

I feel like it definitely was here before twenty twenty. But i'm hearing more and more people saying that they're feeling love bomb by virtual connections and i have experienced this myself so definitely excited to get into it with you but i think the official definition that at least we found online about love bombing is the practice of shower a person with excessive affection and attention in order to gain control or significantly influence their behavior what separates love bombing from just regular honeymoon feelings. An abrupt switch one moment. They may be idealising their partner in the next they'll cut them down in size. Effort control them. So do you have. How shall thoughts all that definition before we get really get into it. Okay let's talk love bombing. Because i think people think love bombing is oftentimes gifts. I have a perfect example. And we didn't have the term love bombing back. When i was dating but i had met the sky matt's on a sunday afternoon brunch liked. Tim thought oh yeah. I would go out with again. We he was going out of town so he said i'll be in touch and i'm like okay so i go to my office the next day mind you. I didn't give him my address or anything right and they're two dozen roses and i'm like wow okay so i'm like that's nice right and then the next day i go to my office. Two more dozen roses. Okay day. three two more dozen roses will of course have to then like text him back in like thank him. But i didn't know i was being loved them. And you think your girlfriends are like. Oh my god. It's so romantic. He must really like you. But i watch it. Because those roses come with thorns. You don't realize that. And this was a guy who i call more like. A covert narcissist. There's a difference between the overt guy who's like really showy versus like. This was a dad. Nice dad but like a dad right. He had two kids. Because i was older dating and now all of a sudden were in a relationship and i didn't realize that i been loved bombed and i felt like i was just being person right responding to this gracious gift not realizing what was underneath it and who he was as the person who was loved bombing me and love bombing can either come at the beginning with lots of gifts. A lot of anxious attachment approve of me or it can come later. I mean i lots of clients who especially if there's a rift in the relationship than suddenly the love bombing comes as a way to re-engage to get this person Reconnected with you. But you have to be careful because the gift is not about you okay. Those roses had nothing to do with me. I could have been allergic to roses. I mean he didn't know you are. Yeah who i was. Did i like roses did i. Not but the point of the behavior is what's underneath which is usually in insecure person does not wanna feel anxious while they're waiting for you to approve them so they have to up an amplified the volume to get you to agree to them so they don't have to look at their own. I wanna i wanna be careful here because just because someone gets you. Two dozen roses does not mean that their love bombing you. So where do we draw the line and say this is an act of love bombing versus someone who truly cares about me and wants to make me happy well so much of that you a is timing right so in a normal relationship if the guy knew me and was sending me two dozen roses. Because i was going through some that would be different. It's not the gift itself it's like. What is the hook. Why lead with that. A secure functioning man would not have to do that right. You have to look at what is behind this behavior. So it's not like the two dozen roses. Is the definitive love bomb. It's what is the intention behind behavior and so that's why it's very nuanced. You have to look carefully. At what is what is the meaning of this and then what is it bringing about me right. What is my emotional response to these roses. And then before you knew it okay. Now i'm with this guy because i'm a nice person. I have my own anxious attachment style. And i get kinda hooked by this and then he's giving the other things and lavishing me with like trips and then all of a sudden he's out of town and i'm watching and driving them to school and now i'm like bananas exactly shit.

00:30:08 - 00:35:03

I'm like what the like. Did i sign up for this but suddenly it's it's because this man was a covert narcissist in. I didn't know any of this and by the way. I'm a psychologist like i should have known right like i'm embarrassed. This is the man. I dated before my husband and then i finally figured out like no more. I kind of had a sense. Of what the hell happened. But i had no idea. This was happening to me so i have to tell people about it because it can happen to anyone so that is exactly what i was trying to say earlier yet. Much of elegantly. Not that i thought i was above it. I just thought. Because i do a podcast like i would be able to catch the signs and i also for whatever reason interpreted as like highly manipulative. Someone like making you do things more them where i think the expansion of this is that like sometimes it's to gain control in. That could just be to like get validation. They that you like them like it doesn't need to be a crazy control ever. I mean yours with the kids is seems like a little more controlling an experience over A virtue. I was away so i couldn't make this person in real life and it was just like lay it on so thick and i texted you a being like. I think i met like by person. I never bet the sky. And i'm like saying that out loud now is so fucking crazy like i can't believe that thought even in my mind but it was like nothing i had experienced before but as soon as he was like as soon as he knew like saw that like i had interest. He seemed to back away. And i feel like there was some love bombing. I don't want to toss. I don't know i'll get your opinion. I don't wanna toss the word around loosely. If you don't feel like that is but i did feel like there was some like not overt manipulation like some validation may is a better way to say it so it wasn't just that he came on with too much affection or or. What was the behavior. Yeah it was just like like life. Plant life planning lake. We're getting married but just like all these future bland's that like didn't pan out basically like a future acres what we've called it before Yes i i. I have to tell you i have stories about this. I have clients where a woman was. Just one of my clients recently dating this guy and literally. I hadn't talked with her for a while. So i didn't know it got to this point and they were going to lope get married and then talk about a faker again. Insecure people will fake good or start talking about a future that they can't deliver on and then when it got to that point. He completely ghosted her. I mean she was devastated. She was gonna run away with this guy. So is that love bombing like is that part of the definition or is that like another offshoot of left. Yeah so technically. The word love bombing is is again an exaggerated sense but if we look at where who is the person who's doing the love bombing like what's underneath the behavior. I'm an insecure person who worries that. I'm not enough right. That i have to give you more. I have to give you more of a story. I have to paint a rosy picture. I'm aware that maybe other people in the world have more to offer like this other man who did this to my client didn't have a lot of money. She did so. He felt intimidated by that so he paints this picture that he can't follow up on or my guy didn't want to come out and say han really need help sort of raising my kids but you gave me all these other things that you go along with the package now. You're in a relationship with them and you just think it's like an exchange for what you're getting but you didn't realize that at at the beginning it was manipulative. That's the part it's the manipulation. Why the lie because a secure functioning person wouldn't lead with something that they couldn't deliver on so does that mean. We have to be skeptical of everyone site. I now now like. Why is why guy being so nice to me. Are you in love bobby future. Faking me or you just being normal. I don't even know anymore. You don't want to be at a skeptical state all you know again. It's back to how this person is making you feel. So here's the thing when we're in love right. Falling in love is like a drug right and it takes over. And you feel like you're in obsessive compulsive situation. Where all you can do is like fantasize about this person. That's the normal love drug but the person should be able to contain it enough. Why are they going so overboard. So just think about what is normal normal would be. It's your birthday. I do something for you. We have an anniversary. We celebrate together. I know you love chocolate. I buy chocolate. I've heard extreme examples of love bombing and let's put it in that category. Where people are you know. I knew a man who bought a woman like thirteen purses like designer purses and then oftentimes remembered.

00:35:03 - 00:40:00

The hook is something like oh were. You don't like my purses what what is too good for you. There is the hint the manipulation so again. It's not just the gift it's what is the gift hooked to. That's what you have to ask yourself. You have to say. What is this. why so much. And what is it that they want as a result of that because oftentimes there's two types of people who them the narcissist who oftentimes are the Attachment style person. Who doesn't know how to really be vulnerable and be close and so they have to again underneath. Don't feel good enough right. Didn't get that from their parents feeling like a secure enough person so they're gonna overdo it with something Again gifts attention. Then there's the only person and it depends on also why. It's so hard to define love bombing. It's also who you are okay. Because if you're in avoidance person yourself. I would call you like independent isabel and a guy comes on even like normal. You might feel like it's too much too intense and you could define it as love bombing when someone else just thinks. It's sweet behavior so you see this is why in the nuanced. Because it's who i am but then also who the other person is and how am i defining that so i have some again. I just call them. Independent isabel types. More the avoidance person who didn't grow up with a lot of love and affection and attention and a guy who comes on more emotional more needy. She's like oh my god. This is too much. She might define that as love bombing when it's just really the person wanting to connect right. Well that yeah. I think that's like the two examples that we gave like the one i gave. It wasn't like manipulation. Exactly it almost felt like it was just too fast too soon. It caused by gut was that there was like an avoid attachment but maybe it was an anxious attachment now on under my initial thought was it was avoid it because it was like once it became real or wants it became whatever that's when they like bailed But yeah i mean. I guess like a question for you. I feel like narcissist. That word gets a lot feeling psychologist. Loved that word. I feel really long dating. I feel like what's to call. Whoever their data guitars assist the the top word. That's always tossed around. Can you break down what that actually means. Okay so one of my most fun g posts was is he a narcissist or. Maybe he's just an asshole. Okay and i got a ladder of information on this one. Because here's the thing to be a narcissist true narcissist ahead narcissistic personality disorder from a psychological perspective. It's one percent of the population. It's very really ninety. Small and everyone is not in our system. That's right but but if we just look you capture the range of narcissism we we have healthy narcissism like. I'm self promoting. i'm confident. I'm good on interviews. I'm going to promote myself. That's good healthy narcissism but then when it borders on unhealthy narcissism. That's a whole different thing. And when we think about back to the manipulation so i have lots of clients to were though. Say like you know. My husband was a narcissist. I ended up in a psychiatric institution my therapist and labeled as a narcissist and i said it. It doesn't even matter if somebody labeled them. Technically it is again how they make you feel so i have these I'm just looking real quick. I have this post on like warning. Signs of narcissists spelled danger so it's an acronym which is super simple d. Their defensive narcissists are always defensive. Line anytime i have a problem with you bring it up. They're going to be defensive. A they are attention seeking so back to like the love bomber. They want something for the gift. They want you to call them for them to say. Oh my god you're so wonderful right. They want something for it. That's the that's the thorns. They neglect you though. That's the n. multi they're not. They have no empathy so they will come on strong but then neglect your emotional needs. The can't sustain it. Okay then they gaslight you what is gas lighting. That's a really popular word to what do narcissists do when you say. Hey i'm really upset or something they say. What are you talking about you that you're the one who's sabotaging they flip everything around and make it your problem. That's when gas lighting is e apathy failure. Again so who was. He was the greek god who fell in love with his own image. No yup right in the in the pond and turned to stone to be a narcissist classically. You have a parent who was not there for you so you had no mere okay.

00:40:00 - 00:45:02

So a lot of narcissist. Then have no one to tell them that. They're lovable or that. They're good so they go. They seek this out in the world. So who are classically narcissist usually actually educated people why i dated ton of them People in silicon valley setup. Paycheck right check check. Check san francisco who get a lot of their needs matt from external rewards because they weren't feeling loved at home and oftentimes have narcissistic parents themselves. Who don't have the capacity for emotional warmth so they have to get that from other people and then that becomes their self esteem and then they want it associate with other people that they highly value right and then they surround themselves by people like that and then the last are danger. They rebound quickly No yep they're going to tell you you know same thing with my axe the narcissist with the thorns and the love bombing. Then you know. We're breaking up. And i'm telling him you know it's you're not who i thought you were from the beginning You painting yourself as dad. And now i just don't think we're matched and he's i'm never going to find anyone and then sure enough. I find out of my house my housekeeper who is also his housekeeper. Many getting married. Oh my and she's pregnant. So this is. I love this because i just went check. Check check on this guy. I dated absolutely narcissist. Maybe not in the one percent but maybe in like thirty percent of people were semi snark narcissistic and his version of lov loved bombing was not easy to spot in the beginning so i think it is important to note that love bombing sometimes is not clear until later and you compare their actions to their earlier action. So example is when we first dating julie you know the story. I was living elsewhere. Came to san francisco to visit him so he had a whole week in planned in an excel spreadsheet of all his favorite places so on paper. This looked amazing. The sky was so thoughtful and he asked me to give him any requests. Is there anything you want to see. You wanna do you wanna to eat etc. So i gave him a list of requests and he did not implement any of it so that was red flag number one because he wanted control over the situation to me. I was like oh. He just didn't have time to plan this. I was making excuses now. The danger that you just you just spelled out the end for neglect. He forgot my birthday so after he planned this amazing weekend. That took so much thought and time. All my birthday was the only day. He did not call me not knowledge so when i called him out. The lack of empathy came through. He was like. Oh i'm sorry. I had been busy. I don you're busy at least and then his excuse was come on. It's just i missed it. I missed it on your day. I can say happy birthday to you the day after so he turned it around on me. So that's when. I realized it was love in the beginning. But i didn't see that 'til much later on when i compare the actions so i think that's important to note that earlier in the relationship it's harder to of spot this until later but you also said this can appear even later in a relationship like maybe a few years in what causes bad to happen so back to attachment styles. It's when people feel threatened. Then you're going to see their attachment style so what. I say that people are like teabags. You don't know who someone is until you put them in hot water. We also say you don't know somebody strength until you put them in hot water but it's so relevant because that person it depends what the stresser is. So you're right. It's very hard to define. This is love bombing. this isn't it's. It's a context of behaviors stemming from person's insecurities for which they feel like if they can move through this stage of dating faster. Like if i can get you hook you faster or wow you from the beginning. You're actually going to be in love with me. And then i'm gonna get to slip in these other things that's the manipulation so it's like you think of like a bomb that goes off and it's like it's a smokescreen for other things so you can't see my insecurity. I love the name of this book. The wizard of oz and other nurses says 'cause you okay who is the wizard of oz. He's the little man behind the curtain controlling the controls right but he is. I am is right. I am all. And i love that name of the book because it talks about who these narcissists right there. The little insecure man who really can't sustain it the can't sustain the intimacy. They don't know how so. They're kind of like faking. It like the doing these behaviors.

00:45:02 - 00:50:15

They might watch the romantic movies and pick up that women like that but again it's coming from them. It's not about you then trip lacked you in it yet right. He just wanted to get you to notice. What a good guy he was right. And when it really mattered on your birthday and my guy the exact same thing my birthright by christmas and so as a trigger for me sure enough. He's like what can we just change your birthday. Mike okay right and these things are subtle. You don't really me realize until you're kind of in it it's like quicksand then to your your question. It can happen later too so when the threat comes up now. The threat is thread of losing you. The threat of their own life may be their job is going really poorly or something For my guy. What happened was i then. This was the craziest thing i met him on. Match dot com. And i was showing my girlfriend like my profile on match and somehow reactive my account without me knowing it and then he confronts me come back from a trip and he confronts me like how dare you've been unmatchable. How the heck did he know that. I was on right away. He was right back to the gas lighting. So now he's like how dare you can't believe you were unmatched. I'm like i wasn't but he he didn't want to listen to that. And i at that point already figured out that he had already had this other person probably on the hook and and all of that. But like it's a it's a picture. It's a bigger picture an envelope. A set of behaviors that are the smokescreen for an insecure person. And it can come at points in your relationship usually some kind of inflection point some kind of stress point that is going to activate the insecure attachment style. And they're going to go back to what they know because that love bombing worked right like it hoped you at the beginning got you got me so the people we were talking about earlier. That like didn't do any overtly like narcissistic thing. But just you know like maybe used it as a way for their own ego or something or freaked out genuinely because it was too much too soon like is the line manipulation or is that still technically manipulation. I guess i'm trying to understand if that does fall in love bombing or it's just that they too fast too soon. I think there are people who are just over shares. And i think they get threatened at the beginning where they might really like you and they get overexcited. I would not call that love bombing. Because i don't think that does justice to what true manipulation la bombing is. It's like that's why. I want to differentiate between a narcissist versus an asshole like the end. If it didn't work out you don't have to call them and narcissists like people want to label it right. I understand it didn't work out. Because he was a narcissist. And i'm like no he was just an asshole. He wasn't a fit for you but to to them and as as a therapist. I'm very careful about labelling somebody as a narcissist or calling it love bombing because it could just be that. This person doesn't have a good filter. They're super anxious super excited. They over share. What i hear and i talk. I was just talking to a client today. Where what happens. As she's an anxious person and someone else will share something and she feels the vulnerability and she doesn't know how to echo or mere the moammar ability so she ends up over sharing and then i don't know if you've heard the term like having vulnerability hangover alawradio explain okay vulnerability hangover is when you shared and you didn't plan to. It's like uganda drunk. And then you're like what what the hell happened. I kind of blacked out. And it's it's coming from a place of your anxiety and then you feel like so for her. I would say. Did you feel like you couldn't just so this guy. For instance said that he was a recovering alcoholic and so she felt like she needed to near his story with her own drama story. She wasn't ready to share her trauma story. And we were working on her narrative like this is your narrative you own your narrative you decide who is trustworthy enough to get this narrative for you to be safe with but because he shared. She felt she needed to share. And instead i said you can give other empathy statements. You say thank you so much for sharing. I feel really vulnerable with you. That's an amazing story Wow you're so courageous you know good for you. What is that like. Keep the focus on them because also you run the risk that went. I share because you share. I'm actually taking away from your story to god. So it's not necessarily love bombing. It could be that like if like the pace isn't feeling right to you on. You'd be control. Yeah he's a little and not necessarily and here's another scenario that i've heard labeled love bombing that had left for you to cut sure let us know is similar like someone comes on strong. There's a lot of conversation. Maybe it's virtual maybe it's in real life and then they start to pull away and then when you confront them they do kind of gaslight you a bit like you're overreacting or something like that is that love foaming or is that like purely just a miscommunication of people.

00:50:16 - 00:55:03

You're shaking your head now. I think here's the problem with all of that. Let's go back to the love drug where excited at the beginning. You haven't met the person yet because this this goes into ghosting. This happens all the time right. You haven't met the person yet. You're really excited. You're sharing lots of information. You really connecting and then you finally do meet right and now you don't feel the urge as much because you've already met them but in your mind. You had the expectation that that would continue now. You're watching carefully and you're observing that as a pullback when really it's just normal because men oftentimes we're talking about heterosexual relationships men oftentimes communicate because they need to but like. It's only that the woman imagined that that pace that rate was going to continue. And now you're disappointed if you labeled that as normal behavior which was excitement from the beginning and now it's just a normal pullback because when you confront the person about the behavior they're not even aware of got it so it's not that they're not really manipulated you. It's just might. Their reaction might be to that. That like oh. I didn't see that coming and even see that happening. Obviously situations where you meet up for the first time but even if you've been like dating for a little yeah and then like you have an expectation like i think women often do this to that. We're like ten steps a lot. that's right with. I guess that's a question for you like ken. Women love bomb like is that possible to or is it or like be narcissists or is it mostly found in men. I think women are more guarded and more cautious. So for instance like women don't wouldn't say something like oh you ought to meet my sister my best friend unless they really meant it and i think men don't practice as much with other men and they get excited and sometimes they throw down these provocative statements without really thinking through what that means so women are less likely to love mom because she's always filtering and watching what she's doing. What about like to manipulate like do you see that in both sexes. Like let's say the the tables were turned and it was a woman a single mother that needed how their children have you seek. Is that possible or is it more show up in men. Women wouldn't i don't. I don't see that happening as much. She would just kind of come out and be more direct. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. But but i i see that. Here's the thing. I don't think the men this isn't conscious. I don't think the thing is that. I say because i'm a couple therapists to so much of this is unconscious behavior that came from childhood. And if you look at that person like a baby you wouldn't see that they were like pre planning and manipulating. And that's why. I said you know it's not like the man has master plan out there and he. Oh i'm gonna get her. And then i'm gonna hook her for so many months and then i'm going to tell her and then i'm gonna. Its little happens really fast and it happens really unconsciously so when you do confront the man on it like you've pulled back and he's just thinking shit. I was just busy at work. I plan some big thing to hook you and then abandoned yael. I just got busy. And i thought we were at that point where i didn't have to manage the relationship so much maybe from a good perspective. He's feeling so safe and secure that he doesn't have to be texting you. Every day. he thought and from the man's perspective the man just wants support a woman who's going to be there but maybe he has more the of we didn't style and he didn't ask for that so we have to be curious about the the the behavior we have to ask. Hey john i haven't heard from you what's up instead of like leading with. Oh you abandoned me rejected me. what's wrong. Let's talk because that's priming. And when you prime someone they feel triggered okay. They feel threatened it the worst thing that you can says we need to talk because you're like oh crap i'm in trouble. That's my mother telling me we need to. I love that too because then you can see what the reaction is as if it's gas or nurses like like it's all on you. Then you know that may be. This could be love bombing more and why call it. Six steps of danger like for me. I know when i'm involved with nurses. They usually again talk more about themselves. They don't ask you a lot of questions right. You might be on a date. Barely ask you anything. God knows i was with when. I don't think he asked me a single question and i'm like check. Please see later right. You know those people who can't you can see it and for me.

00:55:03 - 01:00:03

It's like now the herron the back my neck stands up so i know but in dating especially if you're coming at it from a place where you yourself might have been deprived or you haven't had a lot of attention and then all of a sudden somebody comes along and they give you this kind of attention and remember. We are all infiltrated by moody's rom coms and thin notebook. I mean i did a post about this like five steps why. The notebook is not a good model. The total right. He's dropping in on her kind of stalking writers write building. It's like and yet we put this model out. This is what love is good guys right. The normal guys who don't do all of that. We think they're boring. He's not chasing me. He's not doing so. We have to be careful about the narrative we're giving ourselves about what love and romance is. I want to go deeper into that. Because i can hear some people listening to this right now. Saying love poem. Isn't that bad. It's better than being abused. It's better than being neglected. It's better than being rejected. It just sounds like. I think i could handle that. So what are the dangers of someone. Staying in a relationship where they're constantly being loved bombed. So if i go back to my own situation with the roses in i had seen immediately that it was manipulation. Instead of something nice. I would have saved myself like a year of heartache. If i go back to what is the danger if the roses come with thorns if the gifts come with an expectation if you turn it down and if i said to this guy like hey now i don't really like these roses and turning back or something what a narcissist would do is say again. What might my gift isn't good enough. Who do you think you are like. There would be the manipulative hawk. And yet the best advice. That i give people. If you are with the narcissist there's not gonna be a good ending. It's not going to end. Well they're not gonna say oh. You're right like this guy saying to me. I'll never find anyone and yet here ready had somebody else on the hook. I mean like what you know. I felt horrible eight. Unlike what did i do. I'm not good enough. I mean activated all my abandonment wounds. But they're not thinking of you and the loved bombing is a problem again if it's a series of behaviors that come with the hook and suddenly. Now you're into a relationship that you didn't really even shoes right. I didn't like choose that if it had been slower paced. And i had felt like i'd been invited into this relationship but i felt like there's a way where you just become like disoriented like. There's a way that these behaviors like. It's really a bomb right if home. It just kind of catches you off guard and so y. I think it's important for women to know about. This is because you do have to pay attention. What is the feeling. I'm getting around this person. Is there an ulterior motive. If why aren't they going slower. Why aren't they respecting my boundaries. Why aren't they dating me more in a normal way. What's the rush. That's the question. What's the rush. I think kovic is tough right now because people are really lonely they're grabbing onto. He's saying things are moving faster. We hear of turbo relationships right. So like i think sometimes it can be hard to differentiate. Is this just the new pace of relationships and cova or is this love bombing. You're saying snark assists are mostly avoided. Attachments is that what you're saying mostly but you can have an anxiously an anxious ambivalent. I call him nervous neck. You can have a nervous nick type because it's your nervous system right who is very insecure and can live bomb you too so there's stats that like most of the dating pool the older and older you get becomes more avoid in't or anxious and less secure like how can you spot these people or is there a way the spot these people early on so you don't get into this situation like you just described so many so many clues right and i think there's more like yellow flags that can turn into red flags but the point if you're with a narcissist and you bring up their behavior that is concerning to you they're not really gonna be empathic they're not gonna listen or say oh thank you for telling me how can i adjust how can i change. They're not able to take it in and pivot right. That's the defensiveness. They're gonna see it as something wrong with you because you're throwing up a mirror. That isn't the mirror that. I like to see myself as smart and accomplished and i have so much to offer. You're giving me different reflection. And i don't like it so it's your fault it's your problem it's about you. That's what i'm pushing back. Let's take a quick break from all this talk about love bombing for a quick message.

01:00:03 - 01:05:04

Let's face it. It's weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you want to make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reentered the dating seed. Maybe you've gone on one too. Many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating. Sherpa us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo but so it do you think love bombers know that they're doing it. I mean call them relationship terrorists with this whole theme. Do you think that they are guilty for these terrorist actions again. I think it's unconscious on their part. I really yeah. I think having said that i think there are some players out there who are very good they know exactly what to say and what to do to get a woman to fall for them and then i think like this guy that i'm talking about the covert narcissists. I don't think he was consciously aware of that. I really don't. I don't think that he like knew that i think he had. He was running so fast and so many other issues that he just wanted to get me because he saw me as valuable. Here's this attractive woman. I wanna get her and so he wanted to hook me fast. That was where the behavior came from. I think men are aware right. They know what went in like they know that flowers are good like at some point. You you figure out what are the or she likes. Nice things get her a purse. I mean i've heard from so many of my clients that they you know again. Men them credit cards they give them exorbitant things but again no normal nice guy. No secure steve. My character would do that. He wouldn't have to write. I think if the generic stuff to like. I think you all like because they don't they're not tailored to you and like you mentioned earlier doesn't have to be just gifts though right it can be other stuff like how does this like. How could you see this in other ways. Well if their love style is more acts of service now all of a sudden and you know. They're coming to my house and doing repairs. I know a lot of guys will do that. They'll try to make themselves invaluable in other ways. So you mentioned you have a problem and all of a sudden but it's poor boundaries to it's the it's the lack of kind of like asking. Is this okay there. They're just making an assumption. It's the manipulation is like it feels kind of forced and it doesn't. It's not about you. it's not personal. It's coming it's stemming from their insecurity and that's why it's so tricky because they look like why would they need to do that. It looks like it's genuine but it's coming from this place of not feeling good enough. The little man behind the curtain could it be words of affirmation also like excessively or is that not as much of a sign. I think so again. If if they're love languages verbal than they're gonna lay it on thick with all of that and different than like the anxious person who's over sharing their own stories. They might be sharing a lot about you. You're so beautiful. You're so wonderful. I never met anybody like you. And all of these things just feel like too much like tell me you like my eyes or something but don't go on and exaggerate and then when i say like oh please stop or that's too much then then it becomes again like. Oh what's wrong with that. You're just not used to a man treating you this way. And it's got like a jealousy tone and it's got it's just rift with all other kinds of things not all love bombers are narcissist so we can clarify that and i do have a friend that that comes to mind. He loved bombs out of insecurity. We've talked about that. And he does that with all of his girlfriends. 'cause he's so afraid of losing them so i kind of want to take a moment to just help save these sort of love bombers want doing it but to how can we help them recognize. They're doing this out of insecurity. And what is the next step to get them out of this kind of behavior. Perfect so when. I work with that kind of guy. There's a part of them. They don't know how to connect they don't know that real connection is about paced vulnerability. They don't know that. What women really want is consistency. I'll take a consistent. Good guy was like my husband any day over someone who a relationship where keep trying to race to get back to the beginning amen.

01:05:04 - 01:10:01

Right the beginning was so exciting. And thank god. I want to get back to that. But but consistency is gonna win hands down anytime and when i coached. These men on is listen. You're a good guy that's enough you being consistently there is going to go so much further than giving her something that you can't deliver over time and listen to her. If you love her really like her she says chocolates her favourite go-getter the best dr chocolates that she wants. But that's special now. That's a gift. That's not a love bomb because it hadn't positive intention behind it and he was mirroring something and he did it for your pleasure. Not for him. that's a great distinction. So i tell these men right. Learn that you are enough. You don't have to do all of this extra stuff you just got to be like ten percent better than the other guys out there. Who are flakes. Who aren't being consistent here. A good guy and you show up consistently that's your money. That's your ticket so for all of us dating right now. Yes like there's going to be bad actors. There's got to be people that are insecure that we can't save right. They need to do that. Work with someone like you. I think it'd be edited. I always say this. The only person you can control is yourself. Yes and i'm not putting blame on people that have been love bombed especially it's been highly been give but what are there. Are there ways that you can look in words and like does it have to do with your own attachment styles that you might be more susceptible than others to love bombing. So we're back to. I'm the person who's doing the love bombing or i'm the person getting love bombed. Okay okay so yes. I go back to that and i think if i had to do all over again i probably would have found a gracious way to reject the gift if i if i had to do all over again and i wouldn't have felt like i owed him anything because that's the hook for women that women who are insecure themselves feel like this behavior is special if i had labeled it as more about him and less about me than i could have been on top of it but i got sucked into the vortex of this behavior by not seen yet for what it was and then feeling deprived myself and then feeling like i needed to deserve that after the fact and gave him more than i wanted to give him. got it. So it's your own security is really worth coming from my own security. And then i've worked on myself. And then i finally got to the point in therapy like okay. This is the last narcissist. And because i was anxious person myself i'm going to be attracted to home and unavailable person right because my parent was there for me sometimes but not others and that's my hook so i do a lot of posts and i have a lot of clients that i for warn them. If you are the anxiously attached person you are going to be hooked to these people who are unavailable and in the end. They're gonna break your heart. I think it's we're like your view as well like if you think of dating is scarce like at a scarcity has said that there's not that many good gavel out there in like. I know like we can debate if mind was love bombing. Assad it sounds like it might not have been the way that i least interpret. It was like. I hadn't been dating for so long. Because that i'm like oh this person's giving me a lot of attention and there was something in myself that maybe i was a little starved for attention. We're insecure. And if i was in a better like either had more people kind of in rotation or like was confident and back out there with him. Maybe it would. You wouldn't have felt like you could have. Maybe self pasted a little as well exactly and i think so. Many people are feeling loneliness and just want. It's normal to wanna connect especially during ed right now and i think what. We're talking about julius. This person just sounded eager. Demi they were too eager. they couldn't filter. They too probably felt the same way. And i think you then as the person who's receiving that you can say. Hey listen you know what. There's going to be time for all of them. You know i feel like this. Our conversations are a little bit intense. But why don't we just like make him a little bit better. And if you then felt in control of the behaviors were saying you can only control yourself then you could kind of like slowed down a little bit but with also some reassurance. Hey i really like you you know. These conversations are great. I just feel like. I've been on the phone all day. Just a little too much for me. I'd prefer if we talked for shorter. But you know keep up the pace because this is really good rights gun it instead of just like texting. Lasser doing something that make someone else. Feel like your ghost ear paula. Why exactly we have to just communicate more. What works for us.

01:10:02 - 01:15:01

Take care of yourself. Tell them because they don't want they don't want to have that disappear either. They're enjoying that but it just needs. It's the intensity that you wanted a little less of and then four. The actual love bomber is like people at one one bombing like we. How as a date or do you kind of navigate dating you a you were saying before. You don't wanna be skeptical of every last thing. What is that balance of looking at those with yet. Like red flags like people are always like red flag. This is a red flag. This is a red flag and it's almost like a timid eating at your also cut a setting yourself up for negatively but also we can't be dominant ignore things that could actually pan out later like what's the line. Yeah dr diane. You know it just sounds like it's a loose loose you can't win and more people are saying i just looking for someone to treat me. Well now it's like if they treat you too good in the beginning a little weary my whole thing with dating to is it only takes one and you have to see it. As abundance model there are a lot of good guys out there but there's also just a lot of people just like you insecure looking for love. None of us really know what the hell we're doing right. We're all just kind of fumbling through it. I personally think for me. When i got to the point where i said like no more narcissists. I also open myself up to a bigger dating pool. And then i myself wasn't so anxious because when you're anxious you're heavy okay. I kind of say it's like you're a muffin. You're like a dense zucchini muffin. Nobody monitor so good job. You've got to be a cupcake. Okay you gotta be a cupcake that is like light and fluffy and fun and has freckles than like people. Want to date a cupcake right. So late nup cupcake is what i say like. If you're so anxious and so worried. I'm going to be abandoned. I'm going to be rejected. This guy's gonna love me. I'm walking into it in a fear mode already mike. Guard's going to be up. Dating should be fun. You're ready to meet somebody. There has to be an element of curiosity and play. And when i said i've got gotta bring all of me too dating because i've been hurt so many times. I dated for so long. Then i started my tagline amash dot com was life is short. I hope you're not okay. I'm i'm tallest. I've just saying because i'm like five ten though and i wanted someone who is tall and i know it's superficial and short man would write me like how dare you and i'm like okay. Well but my husband's six six and it worked. But i got to that point where like i didn't care. I was just going to have to be myself like this is my personality. I can't worry about offending everyone just looking for one. I think we've said this on many episodes kind of a good segue to takeaways. But like we've talked about the feeling. And i think it really does come down to that feeling. I think you do know in your gut. Is this authentic or is this new to you. I think you do. And i think a lot of times. You still continue to do it. It comes from what you were saying of like the lack of confidence yourself. Or were you're at if you're in a world where the cupcake. I'm so going to be like swiping through dating apps being like i'm the cupcake and just keep thinking about that. But i feel like if you're in a place that you're the cupcake then you are kind of like okay. Is this authentic. I have a lot of options like you're kind of looking at that way opposed to like. I need a like grasp onto every last person that pays attention. I tell people. Because i watched the bachelor i follow up on me to you and i bonded over okay so now my new thing is this you are the bachelorette. You are not on the bachelor competing with thirty women. This is your show. This is your show and all we have to do is get like thirty men in the funnel. Okay so you'd have to have a dating strategy where you're going to have a lot of people to choose from because if i come into this from a place of empowerment like i have traced and there's good people out there. I can't wait to be chosen i. It's a mindset shift. I have to feel like i get to choose and if there's a narcissistic man who was forcing you to choose quicker than you. Are you know right new. But like i didn't because i was in a drought before i met him like i was. I was going with scraps right. This wasn't ideal for me. But i somehow felt like well. It's better than nothing right. So then i regrouped got myself together regroup and said no. This is my show. I get to choose. And i started dating with more intention and started asking the right questions and with intention -ality and i wasn't so hooked by those guys anymore. Then then i could see clearly like. Oh god yeah. He's so insecure.

01:15:01 - 01:20:06

And then i could move on and welcome other better men into my life. The good guys who are boring by the way but boring is good or it depends on how define nari analogy for them. Or are they like bob brad and super boring of wonder bread exactly absolutely your plane your plane breath but the thing is you have to see that again. Consistency over time. What are you getting the if you're chasing this excitement because there is something about the love bombing in the narcissism that's exciting because we're sick person is showering you with everything. It's like hard not to like like to slow downs. But but that's where you're setting the pace if you're with a therapist you have a coach. You're you're checking in with yourself. Not just listening to your girlfriend. Somebody who's more objective about what this behavior is. You're saying how do they make me feel right. You are the barometer on yourself to say. Is this person making me feel safe. Do i feel comfortable with them. are they. bringing out the best in the am. I myself yup because when i was with this narcissistic guy i felt like i needed to be perfect all the time. I felt like like his show. Pete your arm candy or something. It felt kind of achey right. Like i didn't feel like he really wanted to get to nine. That's a good segue to takeaways. Like i think one of the things that i've definitely learned from this is that there is a distinct definitely of love bombing. Love bombing gets tossed around a lot. The word narcissists there is a range but it is also worth gets tossed around a lot. And i think at the end of the day we have to communicate we. I mean this is like we had every episode but we have to communicate and not just make assumptions because then we learn. Is this actually just someone getting ahead of themselves or someone. Maybe they're actually feeling like this is going well and they can pull back because they feel good place or if we communicate in the person basically gas lights us back and tells us that we're wrong than we know at least what we're dealing with and i think instead of throwing around terms to describe certain situations you needed just start having conversations but also look at the answers objectively and like you're saying i love this owned bachelorette like if you see like replies that are not what you're looking for like if you feel like someone's putting you down. It's time to move onto the next person in a place of abundance scarcity. Yeah one other analogy. That i love is when we're insecure. We also get disappointed by a lot of people. I know i did somebody would. I was just always disappointed. Like i'd have some vision of them and they would never like measure up to my expectations and we tend to use what we call the golden rule. So i use myself as my reference point because this is all i know like i've only been my myself right so i use the golden rule which is in my head. I say do unto others. The way i would like to be done onto and then when the person doesn't do what i'd hoped because like i would be so empathetic if they said that i would be so loving and when they don't give that back to me that's when i'm disappointed like i wouldn't be texting all the time the fact that they're not texting me means they're hurting me. How dare they like all you have to do. Is text me back backgammon. But it doesn't work for couples what you wanna use. I don't know if you've ever heard the platinum role. The platinum platinum rule is do onto your partner. The way they want to be done onto Okay love so in couples. I'm using myself as my reference point. But you're different okay. I'm anxiously attached. But you're more avoided. You need space distance piece. I need connection validation closeness. So who who's needs are more important. There has to be enough space and time to meet both of our needs. Now you have to communicate to me. I need space. And i need peace because this is what i need for me and i need to communicate that. I need closeness but as a couple now we need to negotiate this. So i have to give you what you need. Not what. I think you need. Or not what i need. And that's when you get a real partnership a couple or you are both listening to each other and their space for two people of that's where love language came from. It's not so much like me. Tell me projecting my love language onto you is that we both have different languages. We just gotta learn to speak each other's like i think two of my major takeaways from this conversation are the consistency is huge. I do believe that that we get addicted to love bombing behavior because it's adrenaline. It gives you that pump of that. That pump of loving nece and then you get addicted to it but if you consistently see it over time it is disappointing.

01:20:06 - 01:25:01

You get depressed feel neglected so seeing that not just your partner's behavior as consistent but also checking yourself am i performing consistently as well am i showing up for my partner consistently as huge thing my second major takeaway is you said something about. Sometimes we get ourselves into relationships and we're like. How did i get here and knowing that you made that decision and choice to be in there. I think we forget that and dating to we often blame extra faster and then we say oh the result of where i am today is because of things that are out of my control. Guess what it's not. If you find yourself in a position where you listen to your gut and say. I don't want to be in this position. You chose to be there now. You can choose to not be there instead of blaming other people we can blame narcissist all we want. We heard this so many times right. Juliet people always like i'm dating narcissus. And this narcissist treating me this way. Well don't boy. Yeah you got to blame yourself for choosing to be in that situation so the power of choice is so important here because we gotta stop blaming these external outdoors. If you've been loved bombed the minute you realize that it is your choice to knowledge it and to do something about it own antone. Outside of narcissist to another one i think gets thrown around all the time. They're insecure attached in insecure. And and i think attachment is really important to understand yourself but we can't use that as the reason. Why every relationship does it work out like you know they just might not be the right fit for you might have zero to do with their attachment like there's so many things out there but i think like the other takeaway is that this could happen to anyone like you said dr diane like you're a psychologist that happened to you. I think the key is when you see the behavior. That's off or you start to feel the behavior that's off. That's what you act when you just keep rushing it under the rug that's when it becomes you in control versus not that's right and and don't expect that they're going to agree with you. This is the moment when i said. If you're with a narcissist you need to get out it. Oftentimes i've helped people you know untangle there and get divorced if you're waiting for the other person to give you permission. They're not going to remember their nurses. They lack empathy. They're not going to agree with you and say oh yeah you can do better. They're gonna tell you. Good luck to you. You'll never do better than me. They're gonna cut you down and then there's something called narcissistic rage that you do have to be careful of true. Narcissists will be so offended that you left them them that they could really make your life. House sounds like a movie narcissistic greater seriously. It's it's ugly. So i would say once again back to control. So what if you have to turn some guy down and they tell you like oh what you think. You're too good for my gifts. i'll just say you know. Thank you so much. But it's just we're just not a fit and know say whatever you need to literally say whatever you need to to take care of yourself to get out of that and then declare no more. Which is what. I did like no more. I'm not open for that. Inconsistency i'm gonna welcome only men who are at a different level into my life and when you get really clear on that You won't have all these red flag. People i think the other final would on like the labeling. I love your like. Are they just an asshole. Because i think sometimes you know it just is that simple like we don't need to find a label for everyone. We just need to know that the behavior or the feeling does not align with what we're looking for and move on. It's doesn't need to be like how they did this like they did that. It's better spent time to just move forward opposed to like Figuring out there like personality disorders and all the stuff out there like you're just not if that's it agitator diane but but i do have a label. I just took your love. Quiz love style quiz. And i am a secure sophy label. I am happy and flaunt and speaking of this quiz people can take if people want to find out more information about you. They want to connect with you. They go to back to love. Doc back to love no back to love. Doc dot com. That's right back to love. Dot dot com now. No one's gonna ever forget. I love dot com tongue. Chester love doc dot clan. Oh my god did it so okay. If i gave you my real name which is diane struck hausky. Now that's about both. I got all these long. So where can people find you. Where's a good place for them to find you again. They can find me on youtube. They can find me on instagram. They can find me on my website. I have online courses. I do couples therapy. I'm only located in california.

01:25:01 - 01:28:27

Meaning i can only do therapy with people in california. But i am licensed and i love coaching people. I love coaching man. I love coaching women. I love couples to. Because if i can help a couple like figure out the platinum rule and save marriage To me it's it's also worth it or sometimes dissolve a marriage that shouldn't be laughing equal success it couple. I've had to call many a marriage and it is oftentimes the best thing they've you know they've the i'm like the fourth couple's therapist and we need to have some peace yup. Well thank you so much. Dr dianna audience is gonna love all your terms if nothing else. There's somebody jabs at this episode. So i've definitely get a chill by inner buffet. Okay no copy cupcake. Nothing buffalo mafia. She'll lick my interview. You don't look at a muffin. Like i want to be a fun. Feddie uptake. a sprinkles cupcake with passion. Fruit filling be start something the facebook group of all the analogy of what comey i see. Let's see and then someone's going to be like you know what a don't get the tea bags and i got them all right. I know i know savings. We just took a dirty also. Dr diane took it got a hand. Yes we're so glad that we finally got you on our show. This is a long time coming but we finally did it. And this was just such a wonderful conversation for all of our listeners. If you would like more. Awesome guests. Like dr diane. We will love for you to give us a review in podcasts. Because believe it or not that really helps us get prominent awesome guests and because it makes us look credible it makes sense so just go to. You can go to apple podcasts. Or if you just want to connect with us you can go to dateable. Podcast dot com. You can find us on instagram as well. An any podcast platform. Thank you so much. Dr diane really appreciate this. And we're not just love bombing you we really do love you. And we will keep that consistent behavior throughout the rest of the year. So that's a promise from us. Thank you so much ladies so much fun all right. We're going to wrap this up. Stay did -able the dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tag in any post with a hashtag dateable and trust us. We look at all those post then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos in our coaching service. With vetted industry experts you can also find our premium why series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums also downloadable for free. On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast. Stitcher radio and other podcasts. Platforms your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.