S11E9: Addicted to Love

00:00:00 - 00:05:16

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable show all about modern dating where we get intimate with each other and get to the bottom of get to the bottom. See that is pretty intimate. We get to the bottom of. The things they do I'm feeling extra sexy today because I'm in this new mic setup, and if you can watch this on our youtube is so Phallic Blue Yeti. Mike's are just normal penises and whenever someone else's sees it we make fun of them, but now I'm using my. Big. Weight Venus in front of my face only literally covers my whole now. Every time I look at it. I'm like, how do you fit that? Forbade Louis it was just like we are going to produce these watch all these podcasters with this Super Phallic. They can better about just laugh every time is just a joke says the actual Mike, is probably like one tenth the size and they just put it this big Phallic Penis. Well if you're is Phallic bides a micro. Pia this. This is like the extra push to come on Youtube because you'll see the differences, sizes of these two bikes you and I are actively you know Ribaud podcasting it works the there's always a hiccup. So for all the people out there that do podcasts on your own. You probably feel I guess if you don't WanNa work podcasting that people are unaware of this is just pure. Because I've got my both of my hands wrapped around mine and Julie, you can probably fit that little thing. Deep this. You. Heard it ladies and gentlemen. She says she totally deep Mike. Will, but yeah, yours I couldn't do that one. That's for sure. I had a friend in high school who gave a blow job for the first time ever but apparently, his penis is so big. She had a bunch of broken blood blisters in her mouth like whole mouth was just blistered and and bloody. What, but that was her first experience being a blowjob So that will make you never wanna do that again. That's for sure I'm pretty sure she's never give it another blow job. Did she have the Blue Yeti? She's like, Oh, it was like a metal tasting thing. That was a microphone honey with this thing is pure hilarity and I mean like for anybody who's ever done podcasting or sound anything I'm sure you've gone through all kinds of equipment just from five years of doing the show I. Think we've recycled through like six seven for Mike's Julie like different. Yeah, Mike Setups recording setups even know how many Mike we have at this point. We're still trying to find the one. You know she's Dating to find the one. It's either the micro is or the huge nothing in between. Yeah. This is no goldilocks here, bitches. Either big or small. But this week. Okay. So let's get to updates from this week and it's nothing crazy happened I guess we should make up our own. Julie's Mike just fell her. She was jess. What is that? Like? That's on motor-boating pity fucking crazy fucking. That's it own my Gosh, you know. I know we're digressing here. We're like we're going to keep this intro really slow. The knows it's GonNa go five hours. When you did that reminded me because again back in high school, all these thoughts my friend had really big tits and she was able to titty fuck away and I was really jealous because I am on a pencil between my. I. Like your micro penis in front of me, I can't titty fuck that but I was kind of jealous of what you just sit there I feel like it's not even a thing anymore I feel like that like the last time you heard anyone bench that turbines like never high school. Right. It went. Into the word box I also like to hear from the men does titty fucking actually feel good or is it just visually pleasing? Cheese aren't like wet or anything, and also lake realistically boobs aren't that close together that would be giving any circulation. Visual thing thing I think it's going to be a lot of chafing. City fucking question of twenty twenty. That's the question of twenty twenty. That's that's the question twenty twenty everything that's happened this year what we really like to know get to the bottom of is. Lacking big and that is please share your experience do you lube up your tits I you loop him up first you have to lick it I I don't know like scabby some lubrication well, now that we're we're talking about this thing maybe we should make our announcement upfront at least such a producer.

00:05:17 - 00:10:05

Listen. We still have an agenda. I don't know why it's because I'm holding this thing with both my hands I just want to talk about sex everything I'm thinking about right now it's. Like. Well. That's what got me thinking about our announcement. So we're doing. X.. We're doing a livestream we haven't wanted a while. We're GONNA do a private one in our facebook group. So we're going to have the ability to ask all sorts of questions. So if you wanted to know about titty Fuck Acre, any other questions we can answer it. That's what that's the tie back here. There you go. Goes back. To Sex. We are doing this livestream. There may be some live teddy fucking going on to. facebook. Whatever gets US views. These days were willing to do not with our own TV's but like you know someone else someone will volunteer. But we that is one of the topics we are addressing among many other things like newest dating terms that we've never heard of we're going to get to the bottom of those. We may be introducing some surprise guests from our facebook community who wanted to say a quick high. We are unveiling something being eggers and bigger than the blue. Yeti. You're going like four mouths for this. Consume what's about to happen, but we do have a big announcement something Julian I had been working on together with our friend. Louis's were really excited about this. We've looked for every excuse to create more content and to create more community and I think we unlocked the key to that idea. Or lock you know what I mean. I was talking to one of our members today and she was like sheely we'll give a shoutout. She'll be one of our. Our group and she was like I'm not my boyfriend because you guys. Yeah she did not even just. Say but also I think it was like the fact that you know to slake gave her confidence and you know just showed her like different perspective she kept saying like now I don't think about things linearly but also not only she a boyfriend but she met her people that she hangs out with that. She's like this is like a legit family that I look forward to seeing every single Thursday. So. Yeah. That's a firsthand testimonial here of how how we're changing lives every day and how we're going to continue to change lives a shield has changed my life I don't normally wear lipstick but I'm wearing lipstick today because I thought of shielding and every time I see her in happy hours Scott this beautiful bright red lipstick on. It's just so sexy noticeable that I decided to rock my own today so. You've changed my life. I may still be in pajamas, but I'm rocking the lips because of you well uses with zoom. No one knows if you're in pajamas, you can show to our livestream. You can be in your pyjamas but yeah, livestream is going to be this coming Thursday at five thirty PM Pacific Eight, thirty eastern time. So if you're not already in the facebook group says the final call on the final call. Your closing. Your Well after our titty five gay by close. US An. Educational it is never the final call, but you should get it here because people love it. We had a bunch of New People that join last week that like set how amazing the community is, and you know it can be all levels like some people are just workers and they say like having I haven't actually posted much but I love this I look forward to reading everything every day and some people are like. Actively and every happy hour. So you can do you and pick what works for you. There's something for everyone here and there's going to be something for everyone in what we will be unveiling on Thursday and huge selling point of our group Julia think it's that you don't have to be single and foul. We have a lot of people who aren't single their interrelationships. He will just WanNa talk about love they. WanNa talk. Right now to the rules of changed like we're already saying there's no rules before cova now like who the fuck knows, what's going on like if you're if you're into relationship everything's different like I shared this last week that I had my I want to know socialize. Date this week and it was it was a success. You know I don't know if this is like my person or we're going to continue but I had a good time and that's really all you can ask from date like we went to a bar. We sat outside I deduct GONNA walk for curious I going. On while already knew we weren't going to walk before. And he was really good at picking the location and what is actually ironic I didn't realize this. Until I was walking there is my last date before the pandemic shutdown was at the same bar.

00:10:06 - 00:15:00

So. It is like literally come full circle and I don't know if you all remember but I shared how that was. One of the worst eats in my life and I actually think I might have underplayed how bad it was like this guy got very grabby and like I don't WanNa use the word repeat but a little lake intense actually was scared after the state and this is not something that's happened to me. So I actually I think when I was talking about it the first time I don't think I fully processed what happened but it was just not. Okay. But this new day was very, very respectable. Very respectful. He was we had great respectable and respectable. All the ours. Rape. Good ours ours only. But yeah, we had a really good conversation. We talked a lot about politics so we'll get into that too about some of our upcoming experiment some thoughts people had, but we just had a good time. I think like what's interesting? Why brought this up to like navigating cart dating I think part I, like like one of my friends. Like, to be after was like how was it and I'm like I think it was good. But there is like no social cues for dating. You know how like your new still like someone either like touching your leg or like playfully touching armor even going in for the kiss at the end like when the date ended he's like I would hug you but. It's just like all of that is gone and it's not any reflection of the connection. It's just very interesting as someone like trying to read it look all accused that we used to read our no longer Hughes. That's fascinating. I didn't really think about that because there is no written code for dating or and you don't actually know what people are comfortable with the take several steps back. Also, the other thing is we only did two drinks, but it was also outdoors and it was getting it was pretty chilly that night in poor guy, I commend him for this he got his four wisdom teeth out the night before. And he still came to the date. He just let it go spine. No, he could. It's a good boy I know he's. A good boy. Resorting to puppy play on the book. But yes, he got four wisdom teeth. So he couldn't actually drink any alcoholic beverages. Anti could eat anything that was hard like any. He basically had like a Virgin Mo- HITO and he had The undeserved because I was like the up soup at the place. I mean that's the thing is like he did like kind of cut it at two drinks like I went to the bathroom came back and was like I, hope you don't mind like I got the check. So it's one of those things that are like I. Don't know how to read into that could literally be nothing work could have been like I. Want to wrap it up. You know has never hide your wisdom teeth pulled. Yeah it's paid remember. Shot, I told him I was like I am so surprised or here right now, it really is really nice that you're here right now you. He made it through to. That's what they to. Yeah. He is a hero I. Don't think I would have made it through wondering toes Louis. Exactly. So we've talked since you don't have like set up another date I would definitely go on another date with him I. I really enjoyed his company and personality. He was just seemed like a really good guy. So there's nothing that like there would I say it was like the most intense connection I've ever had. No but also I don't know if that's like just circumstantial too. So anyways, I'm open I the best place. Where things are it's like I'm open but I'm also like if things don't work out, I wouldn't be devastated but I really think that's how everything should be at this stage like not to say that you can't get excited about someone but the reality is I did meet this guy for what two hours like I don't know much about him. He doesn't know much about me and that's kind of the conundrum with casual dating to begin with is there's just no book our guide that was known for what this means and what to do. So, what do you think will happen next? So I actually kind of funny as I realized that, I most of our communication actually was through hinge like we never took it to taxed because hinge does video and phone calls and he had an android. So we couldn't do facetime and I really don't want to be setting up zoom meetings for dates. It just feels so formal. So basically, we are gonNA use what's APP but. then. We saw that you could do everything through hinch now, which actually great to not have greater in the video quality is pretty good and everything. So but I realized like after like all of our communication was through this. APP. So I was like I don't even know if I have the skies number advice verse which I've never gone into a date like that before. So I sent him a message like the next day.

00:15:00 - 00:20:04

It was just like I had a really fun time like I realize we never exchanged like contact info. So you watch like like if you WANNA chat or Hague out again, like here's my number and he liked replied like he had a great time to and like kiosk defied like what's up again so anyways, it's there's been a conversation. So I think where I'm at is I've kind of put it in the I've shared that. I had a good time I share them open again, and if he follows up great and if he does it then onto the next right and you're not against the connection was in deep enough for you to ask him out I. Mean I kinda like put it out there like I had a good time like I would like this is typical female spe-. Yeah. True. Men hate right you put it out there you didn't know. You. Said you had a good time but that's not you wanting hang out. Yeah. You know it's like this is like the existential debate I swear to God, and I'm like someone that is so like pro take charge of things. But at the same time like I do want someone that is going to make an effort you know you want someone to take charge and to also ask. You out but I would challenge that by asking you how much you want to see him again on a scale of one to ten ten like I can't wait to see him again once like really don't I would say probably between like a five to seven. That's a hard place to be in because you're of like could yes I wouldn't hate it but if it doesn't happen I'm not. Ever. Well, I feel like there was like more of a friend vibe that was given up, but we talk about politics for a really long time. Maybe it's really hard to talk about politics right now give where we are but I don't know if I would necessarily I think it's good for to hear people in what their values aren't all that, but I don't know if we. Got To like a deeper place like I could have had that conversation potentially with anyone, right? Yeah. So yeah, I mean again, like I'm totally open to doing another date, I enjoyed his company but would be devastated if we never saw each other again. No but it was a great first date back out there. That's good makes you want to go on more totally I date I. Forgot how to date actually one of our we did something in our facebook group this week of like what dating term describes how your wildlife is. And we actually need them into terms. So we have this new terms on the websites. You can check that out too and one of them that someone put. I put this nave to it. So I feel very proud of this, but it was like someone's like Oh everything is new for the first time again with dating. So I called it the born again data like instead of. Yeah. So. That's how I felt like the born again data just taking it all in i. also feel like at least hearing it from my single friends, you almost forgot all the problems with dating. Yeah, because it's been. So long that these problems are reappearing like the whole texting black hole or like not hearing from them, and then suddenly they become new problems because you're like I'm so out of practice on how to handle this out away. With this again. I mean. It's Kinda crazy that I haven't had like a I mean I did have like a mini relationship back in the picture. So it wasn't like it was a little circumstance outside of Kobe, but it is kinda crazy like I haven't really been super dating since like before March, which is before Kovic Really Tacoma and I think a lot of people are on that boat. Yeah and Some for longer because I know a lot of people are on a writing Sabbatical beginning of the year right like all all save march for really out there when it's ring, the march hits they're like, fuck right idea to you know it January it's always like your New Year's resolution, your Twenty Twenty Vision Board. How many of us had that Gig twenty twenty vision that went to chat right. Absolutely. Shows you you can't really plan for anything. I think. He did what talk about this too but we put it out to everyone that we're going to do. A political experiment that we've been wanting to do is have to people with differing political views, get together on a date and see how you. Can Fall in love or maybe not in love after date one but at least want to pursue this person as a romantic prospect. Even when you know that you are have totally different views than and this doesn't mean that we're looking for a hard core trump supporter you can both be supporting the same candidates but have very different political views on policy on just overall beliefs. So I think for anyone who thinks we're trying to get a trump supporter and a non trump supporter together that's we all know that's a little difficult.

00:20:04 - 00:25:02

That is just two people who may see some things a little bit differently even though okay. So I am not a trump supporter I've made that very clear on. This that being said I have talked to trump supporters during this time and I think one of the things I've learned in why I think we really should be doing this is that just because you're a trump supporter doesn't mean that you're racist and all the things that we like right of course, there are trump supporters that are racist not saying that there aren't, but it's not like it doesn't automatically make you all of the things that trump is just 'cause you support him. There are people that do support him for other reasons whether you agree with it or not like that's up to you but I think the danger is when we make these super blanket statement and it's not yet. Democrats doing that to Republicans. It is certainly the other side to like there's some crazy shit on the Internet and I just saw this first hand because I went to some Republican facebook groups. This weekend as you try to recruit that's dedicated I have to finding the best gas that we can. I. Joined Rational Republicans which by the way was not so rational because. They. Posted and I said on I was like moderator this is not cool. It feel free to take it down or not post it. It not only didn't it went through Admin approval and they approved it. Oh so someone like physically looked at it and approved it, and then someone got all on my high and mighty saying how inappropriate it was and all this stuff and I'm like with all due respect. They did approve it and they said that it was okay to post it and it's just like the comments on that the comments even on instagram on our posts of just how extreme people are like. This is why our country is divided and that's exactly what we don't want to have in this experiment is extremist views even though I know that extremist people would not want to be part of this experiment. We're not looking for two people to fight were just looking for a intelligent conversation and that's why another requirement is. It's not just opposing political political beliefs but we also want people who are very well versed in politics more knowledgeable about politics. So it's not just like I hate you because you're trump's why or you're racist excetera. Also, it's GonNa be like that like you said, like you're there's natural selection of who even ops into this in the first place Sutton. Yeah. We're trying to bring people together not make it lake forgiving every other news outlet or read aboard that you can find. So that's one thing and the goal is still dating right? This is not a presidential debate. Right. We actually probably won't even be Eric like everyone's like last view on everything. It's more just you know how we've done the. Perspective of the date that's where we're going with it. So anyways, I have got a with a ridiculous. A lot of people though that did reach out said I'm really glad that you guys are doing this. They're such a bad divide right now it will bring too late more true truce in it. How not everyone is like extreme left or extreme right and I think that is what we're. Going with, and again, if you did get offended by this, that was not the intention. So of course, you're always welcome to skip episodes but we do hope that you listen because I think the intention is to make things more connection not further that divide. Yeah. Thank you all for the dams and the feedback. We always read those. We really appreciate them. We also read all of our reviews. Guess what it's true. Especially, if you give us a five star rating in Apple podcasts. All of those, and then we find you on facebook and stock you. Kidding No. Scares people. From His hair. Scare them dating fucking I hear them. Shift or talk here. Sign me up for. Virtual Stock Ache. Like you're still listening either because you're still interested in you, you like us. Thank you where you're like my friends who fell asleep to an episode he was slushing not ours. In his rotation, he fell asleep to something and. To us talking about something very inappropriate. We want I doing this that sounds like a story all of itself maybe that needs to come at the livestream I think he might need to. Stories I can. Happen hilarious. Yes. But reviews we really appreciate them because it helps us get really good gas helps US support the podcast you're supporting into independent artists and content makers. So it's I think it's a way to pay it forward as well, and it doesn't cost you anything.

00:25:02 - 00:30:05

It's just five stars takes five seconds and if you WanNa leave us a nice little note we love that too and thank you. Thank you for all of you who've already done that. We really appreciate it. It really makes when we're fiddling with our microphones more pleasant that we were number that one we are helping people every day and to. Make it to leave that every for every one hundred reviews we get, we update upgrade our microphone. I mean that's all we upgrade today that covert had. So that was the thing is we need virtual setup for, but we'll. Everyone's years here. Different things every player is different. Every player is different I'm noticing this with even just this microphone right now is is sound very different to myself and I'm acting a little strange because of. Every years different and you hear yourself differently and you're close your loved ones here you differently it's really weird. How are years work but a good microphone does help facilitate the story so we will keep upgrading as long as we get those reviews in. Yeah. It's a promise from us. Yeah. Help US get a five hundred that's the goal we're at three hundred. So we're almost yeah, we're almost there. There's more of you out there. We know that or maybe after this episode is good well, be more because episode. Plus Sherry. Gabe. Who is a celebrity therapist I? Guess you could call her and she has worked with a ton of celebrities as well as non celebrities about. Love addiction really well, she was on Celebrity Rehab which with Dr I don't know if anyone remembers that vh one show, but I definitely remember that show. Shit show I mean a good show but showing a lot of shit show. She is so interesting for this topic in particular because she's been married. Many times she is a self professed love addict. In after speaking with her I think Julian both found cut of games ourselves on how we could also be love attics and there's nothing wrong with it but it's also about how it helps you their like coping mechanisms to help to help you navigate like the challenges heartbreak that disappointment that comes with being addicted to falling in love nest feeling of being in love. I. Think it's also just like everything is OK in moderation but. It's the excessiveness that becomes problematic in. That's like other addictions you think of with like gambling or sex or drinking or even like food addiction, right? Like you have to eat to physically be healthy, but it becomes problematic when that's consuming every last thought you have. So I think what she was saying here and her book love smacked, which was super good. We read that before doing the interview. So definitely recommend it. It's out now. And I was really good. I'm like, okay. Definitely have some of these symptoms shirt and I don't think I'm like full blown relationship or love addict I think maybe she kinda diagnose me more as a romance addict than their relationship ads but I do think regardless of where you fall on this spectrum, there's always opportunities to like you know get more confident in yourself because I think this all does come down to self confidence and. I mean, honestly what I was saying about the date like that I, kind of go either way and I'm really not stressing about it like there was a point in my life that I definitely stressed about like if someone would call text me back if I was a five to seven, like I would Louis. I would freak out like if I didn't get that second day and I would measure it against myself worth and I think. Having that. That like gay you obviously opening want good things to happen and it doesn't mean that like love is an essential part of life. It doesn't mean that you're not going to have love in your life, but it also is structured yourself and not letting it like shake you in. You know just completely dismiss everything else goes auditing life it's related to our would you rather from a few weeks ago of fast forward to love five years from now or would you stay put and live those five years and our takeaway was? Finding love is in the only thing in life. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful part of life, but you can't sacrifice some of the other experiences you have just to find love right and I think also it's you attract like attracts like. So if you're feeling insecure, you're going to attract insecure parters and. Set up relationships that aren't set up for success. So I think just all of this like I. I firmly believe it is the internal work that really does make people truly dateable not to say the external hacks kid how but the internal work is essential and it's about falling in love with yourself to.

00:30:06 - 00:35:04

Let me sound really Corny for some. Anybody who's been through that journey. You know that falling in love encompasses more than just your partner Oh totally fall in love with yourself first before you you love someone else. Yeah. Feeling so warm. Feeling like there's better flies in my stomach feeling lovey Dovey lovey dubbing away that I want to show our love for our sponsor. Yes, I do thank you so much for our sponsor that are help. So in these unprecedented times, some of US may be experiencing on president had feelings. For me. I've talked about just feeling anxiety and I had bouts of depression and just morning for a lot of things that have lost this year. So it's time to think about how are you feeling today and know that you're not alone in this mental health journey that's where better help comes in. They offer online counseling with professional credible and compassionate therapists in a safe and private environment. Their counselors specialize in depression relationships, trauma pandemics unit with three thousand US licensed professionals across all fifty states they make it easier than ever to find help in fact so many people have been using better help that they are recruiting additional counselors in all of. Those fifty states now for dateable is there's only you get ten percent off your first month with a code dateable guest started today by going to better help dot com slash dateable join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better help dot com slash dateable and USA CO D. A. T. E. A. B. l. e.. For ten percent off your first month. Shall we get to Sherry? Let's do it. I think before we get to Sherry though like what other combat is I feel like everyone we know that has fallen in love with themselves and formed healthy relationships has had therapy mix. So yes, therapy all the way. Therapy for the win-. Be sponsored by just therapy like the industry we would. Because that is what's helping us is just daffy Ling of you're not alone in this and some people have said that our podcast is therapeutic which I take as such a compliment because that is a goal is we want you to feel like you're not the only one navigating through all these crazy moments in life and didn't even say that we should be there at the end. Yeah, she's. A She's but when you hear profit therapist, that's always that means it's legit like we have straight cried. All right we may not be licensed, but we've been told that we should be. Just saying anyway, here's a real therapist. Sherry. Being now they're different kinds of things you can be addicted to be addicted to drugs. You can be affected a sack. You can also be addicted to relationships. That's all new for me and our expert today. Sherry Gabai. She is the expert on relationship addiction. She's in her fifties she currently lives in Calabasas? She's there for twenty one years and she's currently dating someone but haven't defined the relationship but get this she's a psychotherapist life coach and author. She specializes in addiction recovery with our own private practice but you may recognize her from being be go-to expert on Dr. drew's celebrity rehab shown each one, and later the spinoff show VH1 sober house as well as celebrity rehabs sex addiction those celebrities. If it's not drugs sex, it's gotta be addicted to something. She's also an award winning author of multiple books with her most recent loved smacked. That is all about relationship addiction. So as I mentioned intro, there's. An addiction. But what is relationship addiction and how does it? How does a show up for people? It's really interesting and by the way, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here and yeah, you know substances is a little different than what we'd call a relationship addiction. A relationship addiction is a process addiction. So think of like food addictions or gambling addictions or codependency or shopping getting those are all process addictions and it's the same sort of feelings that drive addiction, which is usually some kind of curly trauma, some kind of abandonment issues and kind of attachment issue, dysfunctional parenting abuse, some kind of neglect very interesting because really you're always chasing. That I high of love you really need to be with somebody to be feeling whole. It's the person's only identity. So when a break occurs this addictive lover longs for the attachment and the pleasurable feelings of the lost relationship as much as the drug user is longing for their fix.

00:35:04 - 00:40:05

So you think of a heroin addict needing effects while and always chasing that I high at first crack high that I hope high verse Heroin Heroin High The love addict relationship addict is always looking for the first high of there. I love relationship is being addicted to relationships different than being addicted to love you know it's interesting I'm I kinda put them in the same. Category I think they're very similar media. Relation means you have to be in a relationship maybe love is I have to be in lab, which to me is really the same thing. There are some professionals differentiate. I would say romance addiction might be a little different like you're always addicted to the high of the beginnings you know that romance you know just like an addict or an alcoholic sort of romances over the opening up the wind and the court and serving them and beautiful wine glasses. So the romance addict is all about the verse date and where are they going to take me and you know the the roses, all of that but they all. Sort of overlap. So I don't really worry about the word too much. I'm really here to talk about you know obsess obsession. It's basically an addiction to to someone having to be coupled up feeling lost without a relationship you know normal dating as you go on a date and maybe turns into a relationship and then sorta of that bubble fades a little bit which fades anyway. But the love adage it never fades they're always been that high zone. You know now love highs zone I always go through some of the signs and symptoms because there may be some going is still don't get it is isn't many. So a lot of times love addiction relationship addiction. With codependency. So it's an over adapting to what others want. So you'll do anything for that relationship, which is also dependent characteristic. You have no boundaries you are. Petrified of letting go, you are really scared about living the unknown you have to know. So for daters out there, you know that our love addicts, it's really painful. They're always trying to change fix manipulate others to be what they want them to be there sort of in love with the illusion instead of the person themselves, they need someone else to make them feel whole. They need that that outside affirmation that for their self worth. Again, like I said earlier, they have the withdrawal symptoms interesting. So in your book, you go deep into your own personal story about. Relationship Addiction. Can you of take us through your own store, your own pass relationships and marriages? Sure. Thanks for asking you that while the May reason I wrote this book is I really WanNa eradicate the shame around while regular addiction, of course but really the shame around having multiple relationships or in my case multiple marriages, I was a love attic from the get-go. When I share my trauma store, you'll understand don't just wake up and say, Oh, I, WanNa have a bunch of relationships Oh i WanNa have a really bad picture I want to be abused I. Wanna Be With narcissist or an addict or reasons that we pick these people and even in my fifties I finally believe I got I left the alcoholic fourth husband when I was in my early fifties and I really went on a journey of you know uncovering and discovering I worked with my trauma early trauma stuff that I really never worked on and the way I worked on it was more of a body type therapy where you really get the energy of your tron out instead of just talking about it, you actually release that energy and I can talk. About Apple I was a Preemie I always tell people this story I was in an incubator for two and a half months I'm a little older than you lovely ladies, and in those days Premgi's they did know that they had special needs. They didn't understand bonding attachment, and so I literally did not meet my mother for two and a half months I basically was not touched nurtured bonded attuned, and so I really always was looking on the outside looking for that approval I was being fed through my feet they probably I wasn't fed a bottle those first few months. And I'm pretty sure they didn't pick me up all that much because they could feed me through feet. So I always felt different. You know when I was growing up if my parents were going out on a Saturday night, my little brother would be like bowel have fun go and I would be like To leave don't leave. So I always knew that I was different and then I got that I. Hit at fourteen with Miami first boyfriend and that was like oh my. God. So this is what I've been missing just like the alcoholic says about their first glass of wine or the heroine numbers hit I'm like, oh this is so good at now I feel hole in feel loved and I feel like a belong and. And really that that was it and so I was in complete terror when I wasn't in a relationship and problem is it sets you up for being abused sets you up for you know having creditors bind you because you'll settle for anything you'll settle for less and that's a lot of what I did. So what happened in your first marriage? Can you kind of take us through a couple of like the? All your marriages.

00:40:07 - 00:45:02

Again, I want to thank you for asking and again I want to really emphasize those listening. You know there's nothing to be embarrassed if this is you and that's why I'm talking about it because I was really embarrassed like I wouldn't tell people I've been married four times. Do It, and now I'm like whatever this is my story. But yes, the I had been I met at a disco and I really married them on the rebound from that first boyfriend I was talking about I was probably not in love but I am grateful because I had my daughter but I became a single mother. He actually left me and moved back east. You know as I look back it's fine because I. It's just fine like it wasn't really like this. Oh. My God let you know in love relationship it was just like he's The dad and I'm the mom and it was hard being a single mother but I wouldn't change anything. So he he laughed after four years and then a couple years later I met this and this again is like the romance that. Being in love with the illusion I met this really gorgeous guy from New York really edgy. You know however you at that point I was thirty one. Okay. I got married the first time at twenty two, which is way. Too, and I had a baby twenty, five sign met this guy from New York? Can he was just hot and I just was like smitten it was total like to me it for site which really doesn't exist but in my levick to brain did exist. Literally maneuver engaged after six weeks six weeks. Six. Weeks very unanswered. used. My brain guys I'm just using other parts. You smell good and you look good. I'm yours. So that didn't work out we were we got married in together literally ten months. The third one was really painful. I was abused. He was a horrible person now thirty six, another child feeling the pressure I was kind of left with his package so to speak not that package but. Yes. Whole like. From a really good family you know but really he was completely associated path and I would call him a narcissist and I would say that he was extremely verbally abusive and. I wouldn't say physically definitely just a very painful relationship I literally was married to him performance Oh. We've got a wedding plan of three hundred people that his parents were making 'cause my parents were Kinda done making me weddings this point. Ready to go down the aisle and there's this big beautiful I. Guess You'd say a drape rate opens up and there I am this beautiful bride with a pedestal flowers drops on the back of my drafts and I'm like a badges definitely aside. Right Get Out. Now, and especially like sitting there on the altar looking at the canter going got to see hot. Hearing this. Truly. Just on my brain was not working just not working. I just was all about hooking not hooking up at being partnered up. That was what it was about and it was a terrible choice and again I I I, take responsibility, I own all my choices, their reasons I didn't have certain early needs met and and this is just how it landed. So he was my third and the fourth one another gorgeous guy from New York, was an alcoholic really good choice but he was in recovery so I thought oh well, he'll never drink again he's recovering I'd no idea that alcoholism is one day time program that leads I did know that then we had a good. Seven years and I say it was a great relationship for seven years. Tony. started relapsing and then just went downhill and but that's really one I kind of woke up. You know that's why created this program I have call wakeup recovery for codependence and you will probably put it in your show notes or somewhere. But yeah, it's it's a tribe of people that are just waking up to the truth of who they are and you know it's hard to do that. When you're obsessed with other people when you're you just need to be with someone no matter what when you feel lost an empty and you feel like you're in the ethers without a relationship and so. It really is a waking up process Sherry if I'm doing my math, right, you said you divorce the fourth man in your fifties. Then you're married for seven years. So there was kind of a gap between your third and fourth husband few years thirty, six to forty two. Yeah. Okay. So those years I mean that's that's a six years, right? Yeah. Were there any signs of thinking about the last three marriages or were you just kind of looking for the next thing? You know it's a great question I think heart of the issue I'm not gonNA blame it completely but I went back to graduate school at thirty five and I was a single mom and I was. Driving two hours so USC and back, and I was trying to work an intern and I, think those five years that I was in graduate school.

00:45:02 - 00:50:01

I was hardly present. Carter. President Anyway. But I was so much trying to achieve this goal and it just took over my life and then when I met Scott, you know I was sort of ready to be with someone but again, it was just for all you know he looked good smell good and that was that was bad and I just hadn't I didn't do the work the real word let's I. Was GonNa ask that doesn't sound like during that break you're just focused on other things it wasn't like a conscious thing so. Like I was reading the book I was like there's some signs that I'm like empire relationship added. What, what is the line between like being obsessively compulsive about an obsession with relationships versus like you know just the standard. That kinda come with dating and relationships. So unhealthy relationships with couples I meet the idealize each other and they're forming a really healthy attachment but his loved matures becomes less intense. A little more secure trust develops locked side the love but people with relationship you know addiction ever get past the initial stage of falling in love they idealize the person they're in love with, but never feel secure enough to trust them, and then they become dependent on the person they love in an unrealistic way hoping some with this person will create a kind of help happily ever after for them so. It's unrealistic to expect anyone else to create a satisfying life for you. So inevitably, you're going to be disappointed because you're kind of in love with the idea of lab. You're sort of in love with the illusion, instead the real person and ultimately never satisfying and can't seem to live without them, which is the other problem, but they're not based on healthy bonds there on a psychological bondage, which is the relationship addiction codependency. So I WANNA go back to Julie's question because I think in my experience with addicts they never recognize themselves in these symptoms. That's not me I drive I. Just like being in relationships, I'm a serial monogamous like what are some common phrases that someone would say to themselves if if they are somewhat addicted relationships, I don't know about phrases I mean it would just be they're always on the search they're always on the next dating app you know one is over or not even over in their onto the next one you know they're just it's more of a behavior, a just search and the panic sets in that they have to have somebody the panic. Curator hair is on you know when you first meet someone you fall in love instantly you think of them constantly, you're immediately fantasizing about future together these signs at you're getting a little obsessive. You overwhelmed partners with attention and you feel it's your responsibility of fixture partner. Make them perfect because again you're falling in love with an illusion and if you had to let go that illusion, then you'd have to let go the goody. put a square peg a round hole because you wanted to work. You're not you're authentic south and you're always trying to change yourself to suit them to fit in. It's really hard for the digital dating landscape because it's it kind of sets you up for addiction it's already addictive APP. You know people that make those APPS are already game applying it something is addictive, and then all of a sudden, it becomes even a greater addiction like. Are they do they like me? Are they going to swipe on me or are they gonNa pick pick me your then go do and if you have a really weak weak self esteem issue and you don't have a lot of confidence someone's ghosting you which you know I think is awful but it's just the way it is today or there's somebody better bigger prettier lot longer legs would ever bigger boobs whatever it is. Then you know you're going. And you know it doesn't feel very good. So if you're someone has to you know really needs to work on yourself really needs to feel all within yourself. Kind of like what I did. Finally in my early fifties, I kinda stopped dating I took up outrigger canoeing I joined a twelve step program for families of alcoholics and made some wonderful girlfriends. Morph into becoming a grandmother in that becoming my real love like I'm in love with my grandma and granddaughter. Of course, you know and I know an older probably than your audience. But again, it's to take the shame away that you know it's never too late 'cause I hear women in their forties and thirties just think they're so old and wrong with me I can't get this right? Well, Hey, you know I'm Pretty Happy Joyce free and I'm a lot older. So never too late. So first of all, our audiences very varied like we have the younger daters. This might be like their first relationships they're entering, but we also have a lot of people that have had relationships and have been divorced and kind of could identify with some of this of being like defined by a relationship. Quite the part, and at least this is what I'm gathering. Let me know if this is correct like there's probably like a spectrum of addiction like there's some parts that I definitely identified the I tend to fantasize a lot at the beginning and like.

00:50:02 - 00:55:00

Definitely. Don't fall in love with every last person. But when I do like I fall hard even before I fully know them. But I'm also on the flip side fully okay. Being by myself like I don't need to be in a relationship blue it's more like when the right person comes around I, get a glimpse of it and then I start to like imagine a life. So I guess like from your perspective, I would romance maybe. I'm liking to see that because you're. Hooked into the actually like having to have a relationship, you're perfectly happy alone with them. Once you have someone in your life that you're really excited about. Then it becomes a whole story. Then you've got the prince charming thing going on or whatever your charming is and you know steadily you. Got, your wedding dress planned out and how many kids are going to have and where you're gonna live and you know you're already moved in. So I think that's more of a romance addiction. That's a distinct distinguishment because I think that people fall into that camp lot like we hear people imagining their whole life before they've got on there for state with. Some people. So thank you for maybe maybe, and maybe it's a crossover to love addiction to like you just love being in love I mean it sounds like you're okay. Not being loved. So maybe you know I think yeah, I'd say that's a romance addiction. I. Mean I remember when I was young I would like makeup soap opera stories in my head. Soap operas and I would just like make these stories up. You know there was a little drama going on in my house I had great parents but they did fight a lot and we had a lot of money problems and so to escape for me, I would go into fantasy and I would make up these stories and I think that's really word surfaced as an escape awaited distract and that's okay if I wanted to distract from noise. It's not okay when you start living your life like that, and then you know then that's why we talk about alcoholics who distract with alcohol and sometimes that's the only thing that can save them in the beginning an you know because it's just so awful they're they're the chaos around them. You know we all know some people become book worms again you know they get addicted to reading. You know we find are distractions people get addicted to porn. You know they get exposed to porn too early in life for apparent is into porn and all of a sudden now they're addicted to porn. Diction can often go with sex addiction for sure but it really is on its own, its own addiction like it doesn't have to have both the dangers of a relationship addiction. To me is that you're constantly jumping into other meows lives that the moment you're alone you panic because you don't have a well thought out I'd entity and you don't have your own life. So therefore, maybe the loneliness is more amplified. Yeah, that's a it's such a great way a really looking at it because you are you're lost I mean when I divorced the alcoholic absolutely lost yet we were very co dependent on each other we reached others whole life, which was really unhealthy and on your right that is your whole identity. It's kind of like the person who's a workaholic I was sending their job is taken away their identity and then. It's like, now, who am I? Who am I in the world without you and it's flirting to embrace the WHO am I without the relationship you know I was in a relationship about a year and a half and early Kovin where together year and a half, and it was really a great relationship until it wasn't it was the first time in my life. I could walk away and I'm I'm old and I could walk away and be alone because new red flags were showing up it wasn't a bad relationship. It just something showed up covid sorta brought him out and I was able to walk away and it's You know is it really felt good that there was no fear there was like. You know alive I don't even have to be with somebody and I I didn't jump on any APPS. Try To. Replace him right away now dating a little bit, but it's very slow and steady. There's no urgency to it and there's no tear to it I just have a very different attitude out. It's not like avoid the of to fill like. Boy I mean, literally there's absolutely no void I feel like I have the most wonderful whole life anybody could ask for I have my daughter, my granddaughter, my career, my work, my friends, my eight canoeing is. Because of the pandemic I haven't been doing that which is really sucks to tell you. Not Having twelve step meetings in person released socks. Another reason why this tribe is so great because people are you know what it really is guys it's winding connection. We all want connection can they connection and that's why I created that wake up recovering and program because I want people to feel like they're not alone you have a tribe of people that have your back. You know we've got you and I'm offering a dollar for people to check it out. That's a great deal. I think another really important distinction is also to look at yourselves when you're not in relationships because I think sometimes.

00:55:00 - 01:00:01

We're we're in relationships we have blinders on, and then we don't see some of the behaviors that we do all the time, but it's inbetween relationships. Are you feeling panic? Are you feeling need to fill the void? Are you feeling lost like those are all really important symptoms I guess you could call them or your little delete different person like I think if you're like I know some people that are just totally different when they're in relationships versus single and I. think that is a big piece I love that you both said that because that's so true I mean my daughter literally I would after. The relapses with my ex husband we hadn't quite divorced and separated, but he would leave, and then we'd go back and leave there was little drama going on for a minute during those relapses and people that have loved alcoholic what I'm talking about but my daughter would get on the phone with me and she say, Oh, you're talking Scott aren't you would just hear it in my voice just like. If you were talking to an Alcoholic Drug Oh, you're drinking again I mean it was just awful it. There's so much freedom when you finally do the work and Traumas what I say people need to work on whether it's with an em Dr specialist I do somatic work, which is releasing the energy in your body working through the fight flight response many modalities out there do the work go to sex. And love addicts, anonymous meetings. But if you have some early trauma it, you really need to work on it and it's not a quick fix. There's no, there's no quick fix around it. But when you learn to get comfortable in your skin and are grounded in reality and your body, just nothing like it, you just don't need to run anymore just for clarification does relationship addiction stem from trauma always I believe. So I believe it absolutely because any addiction you're looking to fail something that doesn't feel concludes it's like complete. It's like a mother wound. It's like a early fracture. It say you know you didn't get some kind of a tune in maybe your parents were abusive maybe they neglected you maybe you came from a divorce and you became an adult parental child. So what happens is you're invisible. Release you validate you acknowledge you. Then you don't know who you really are, and then you become sort of invisible and that's really who you are in the dating and love addiction world a relationship because you're like invisible and the only way you don't feel invisible is if you are connecting to someone partnering up to someone healthy connections one thing but you know being in the ethers and the only way you feel like you you belong to the universe is when you're with someone that's that's a big problem. So how did you overcome at now that we're talking about like managing that? Trauma like what was your steps to being happy on your own? I have found this wonderful therapist and really changed my life. I think that's the main thing what else did I do I took up the outrigger canoeing made a decision to change finally just pain was too great I learned to stop looking for external solutions to my problems and I really looked at that terror those fears I had. About being alone I really broken down and really like what am I afraid of I really worked on trauma issue I started loving my inner child doing my own self parenting. I often say to my clients, your adult south can start loving that inner child you're no longer inner child was abused or invisible. You can now in your adult south let that little child. So what does that look like? It's literally you could start by taking a picture of yourself as a child and putting it in your phone or sticking it by your bed and just like loving that little girl that maybe didn't get what she needed, and now you know addressing it as an adult self. That's really literally what it is. You know knowing that you're safe now and nothing's going to happen to you and you can take care of yourself and you're gonNA, make decisions that are conscious and. Not unconscious and you're gonNA love yourself and you're gonNA forgive yourself for the things that you've done. I had to do a lot of forgiveness work and just learn to Kinda let go I. Think also just being able to identify that there is something that's a relationship addiction like before this call I didn't really even think about it that way like I thought about like sex addiction but I didn't think about like relationship addiction out. No you a if you've ever heard that. About it. I've only heard people say their self-proclaimed serial monogamous and but that's almost NA satirical way that it's like a serial monogamist I go from relationship to relationship. But if that behavior is what's hindering you from finding real love or that's hurting you in some way, that's when it becomes kind of a dangerous addiction in my eyes I. Think you're right I think that's the more modern way of saying relationship addiction. You know everybody's afraid the word. Addiction people. I was there slain by Ciro monogamous that sounds like upbeat Whimsical it doesn't but I think like what you've said this episode that we've been talking about, it's when it gets to your self worth that's when you don't know who you are anymore.

01:00:01 - 01:05:08

You don't have a relationship in a relationship is a crutch I. think those are very different than wanting. It's like needing needing relationship versus wanting relationship. Let let me tell you I take this really seriously I got very sick from being obsessed with my axe. I mean I got shingles got a staph infection I started losing hair I got kidney stones I. Mean People People Really get sick when they are just it can be fatal like really seriously fatal attraction is real and I take it. Very seriously I also take it seriously I don't know if any of you've seen the a new showtime is called love fraud and it's this guy he's a con man. It's kind of like the dear John There was another show called dear, dear, John I suggest everybody watch it, Google it that the one that's going on right now is called love fraud and what this is about is that love addicts tend to be you know attract predators you attract the con man you attract and it could be your for men out there listening you track the con woman or for a gay relationships you track the woman or whatever you're going to attract what you know and if you're. Not, feeling good about yourself and your really vulnerable and you really lost in your in the authors of the unknown in your fear based you are going to be set up for a con man I'm not going to go too much into it but my mother after my dad died shed a beautiful sixty, your marriage my dad died she was grieving. Yes. But. Because she had never done her dad pretty much rescued her so to speak he died and she was lost and she met a con man and long story short I had to go to court for almost two years dealing with this horrible person that came into our family and it's real and that's part of the reason why I'm really going out. Loud about this, he was a narcissist she was being abused. This was elder abuse, but you can be any age and have somebody come into your life and just completely take all your money and take advantage of you because you're so vulnerable. That's like the dark side. Let's focus on this for a second because I think you bring up a really good point said when you have this addiction you, you seem to attract a certain type of person who in your eyes may be really good while you're in a relationship with them because again you have. Your blinders on. So let's take a step back from this the con artists and maybe not so much to the con artist level. But what are some other characteristics of this person that that addict could attract? You're talking about the love avoid you're gonNA pick someone that's probably unavailable but probably starts out really charming really addictive really wants to be with you and so you the love addict love that attention you love that high that feeling Oh he wants he wants me so they're gonna come off really strong going to Oh my God this is one. And then you know they're gonNA slowly. But surely back off because all of a sudden now they've sort of conquered you and you know narcissists I mean, what can I say? They have no empathy there. Always right they don't look at your point of view they don't care what you have to say they usually have to fill their narcissistic supply. So what can you do for them in my mother's case it was like you can support me take care of me 'cause I'm a loser guy and I don't have anything. So it's they wanna feel that narcissists supply what maybe they need a lot of attention maybe they need it's usually they picked people that are going to make. Them look good. So why did addicts narcissists? I think a lot of addicts have narcissistic traits I think for my addict alcoholic ex husband I think he was had the traits I. Don't think he was full blown but he loved that I was an author and I'd been on TV and he'd go round telling everybody and it was all about like don't you see me like who cares about my books who cares about all of this stuff? What about me and that's a really sure sign you're with someone that might have the traits and I I don't like to overuse the word but there are narcissus out there there's love avoiders and they're the ones too that can be going from. Relationship to relationship, they can be a, they can be an avoid or analog. There's a off on that dance that that goes on. You know I feel like that avoid the love avoid her that chapter definitely resonated with me because I think that I've definitely had some of those past and I think sometimes it's not coming from a narcissistic sense. It's more coming from they're not physically able to be in a relationship like maybe they don't have their career in order enough like they can't support someone like something isn't there for them, but they still want it to some degree. But then when it becomes real, they start to like run away from it well, then I'd have to ask. The person who meets avoided that wants them. Why would you want that doesn't have a complete life like why would you wanna be with someone who has a Shitty job or because I've been there done that it's it's fine. I'm not saying you know they're losers I'm just saying get your life together dude, and then give me a call like I'm not trying to be cold but you know I don't usually think it's because of the job or that I think often it's an intimacy issue I, think in their own trauma that hip they just they get scared to death of connection like as soon as they start to have feelings soon as it gets to to close or like.

01:05:09 - 01:10:05

And then they run their coach. Basically love avoiders love addicts come from the same the same coin, just two different sides both usually have abandonment issues. They're just they manifested differently the landlord runs away the lab attic runs forward. I think to answer your question of why in this goes to what you were saying earlier about the fantasies like you think you can change them early you fall in love with the potential like that. Gave that up every. Not. Change anyone you can't fix anybody you can't and you know you start doing that you become very codependent and you'll always be unhappy and resentful because you know expectations are there's a saying I'm probably not saying it right but expectations like resentments on their way so true I can name I can name one I. Think I can name two of my friends who are relationship addicts and this is what they would always say to me if he could see that I'm so good for him. Then he's going to have the best life ever if he could. He could listen to me because I'm giving him the best advice then he will. Be. Very. Successful at his job and I'm like, no no no, he does not need you to be successful but you for some reason, they've created this need for themselves in in that. Yeah. There's two things going on. I have a whole chapter in love smack about that, which is called settling for less. That's what they're doing. They're settling for less and they think they can control and manipulate somebody. You know often that do that don't WanNa look at themselves combine busy trying to change you and I look at your staff and then I don't have to like that's a great distraction co Dependency Love Addiction a great distraction from yourself I mean. But I think this is why people don't see this as a serious issue because seems like the media really plays it up to it's like you know they celebrate the person who's a relationship addict or society tells you you need to be in a relationship. So you feel you need to be onto the next one one, and so one day I've got to make a list of songs that I don't know why I haven't done that. But any love song, they're all codependent lab addicts and solemnly every single. Maybe. I'll google of addiction songs but. added. You think of that old movie fatal attraction with Douglas and Glenn Close that was total addiction and then you know I think you're right about the media I. Think I mean I was looking at my granddaughter's frozen now I don't know if there's a princeton ball, but they're all princesses everything's princess, and then she has the Barbie. Dream House. Nothing is fantasy and I mean I love fantasy but not to the extent that it takes over at what you think that's what life is about like prince charming is GonNa Sweep me off my feet. Yeah. I. Can't wait for the day when Disney comes out with a movie where people have to pay rent like I'm just waiting for Princess BARBIES are coming in different sizes and. Yes I'm really happy. I love that I love the and also like to see more. Not just heterosexual stuff I think kids can start understanding who they are at a younger age and you know all of it's important because otherwise you're kinda trying like you said Julia, you're trying to meet a cultural norm. This is the way it's supposed to look. So what does that line then because you know no, one's going to deny that connection and relationships are big piece of human life. Right in the like finding. Love is one of the greatest things, but we also don't want to be so reliant on love and relationships that you lose yourself completely like what is the line of having a healthy relationship versus being a relationship addict? Relationship Addiction, I think healthy relationships have ups and downs I mean if they just do I think though if you keep going from one relationship to another or or let's say look at five relationships and only and one of them was an unhappy one you're not like the a relationship or marriage attic but if all five relationships worked so great and you were going from one to the next and you might WanNa, look at that seriously I mean if you're happy and every relationship and you feel even worse on your own, you're you're definitely a relationship addict and I'm just curious because I love celebrity gossip and Julie won't care. She doesn't care about celebrities Sherry you've worked with plenty of. On addictions and I always want to think like celebrities they're just like us. But are there actual differences between their addictions and US? The difference. I would say another no different and I worked with a lot of love addicts. Worked with Rachel you could tell at work with Amber Smith she was like the first supermodel I worked with Janice Dickinson she was the supermodel.

01:10:06 - 01:15:02

They are no different. The only difference when it comes to addiction like drugs in my opinion, there's a lot of yes people. So they bring their drugs, they bring their alcoholism do whatever. So they'll keep their job. So I don't see that really being a problem in love addiction unless you just keep. Well, that's not true. Look at I'm thinking of WHO's the famous Golfer Tiger Woods. Yeah Tiger. Woods had all those relationships. So I would call him a sex addict and I think his yes people brought women to him most likely I. Think I heard that so or lookit Harvey Weinstein you know people hid women for him. So that's more maybe sex addiction I think but even like for us I guess quote. Unquote. Normal. People are relationship addiction stems. This. Idea of not abundance. Big I think we think Oh what when I'm when I'm single am I going to find the next person like there's just not enough it's to. The numbers are in my favor, but I think for celebrities, they're always in this area of abundance plenty of people would wanna get into relationships with them. So it's interesting that they always also have an addiction, but the trauma is probably I think I think you have a fantasy of what how you think they live because they all get up and go the bathroom the same day same way we do honest honestly, and they are no different and in. Fact they have more to worry about because they have more money more goodies more fame and they're going to try they have to really think about who they're attracting. Gosh. Who Wasn't Martha Stewart I remember she was on TV talking about joining match dot Com and I think she was serious. So here's a woman who's Zillionaire and she's on there too looking for love. So I don't think it's that easy just because you're a celebrity I think that's a fantasy. Julie's like rolling her eyes out. Celebrities. Thought it was an interesting question 'cause. Engine, the day the end of the day if you have unresolved trauma, it doesn't matter. Celebrity does your millionaire like you still have the same shit to work through unfortunately can't pay for that just magically like poof and go away. I hope I didn't make you feel bad by saying Oh there you know I'm not trying I think it's fine. Your love celebrities I think it's part of the youth culture. I. Don't know how old you are, but I think it's part of the celebrity narcissism like. Famous and so we Danish people just have it so good in. So Wonderful I. Mean my daughter is a very, very, very big publicist in Hollywood I'm not going to mention her client list, but she's got very famous people and they're you know they get sick they get. Oh Yeah. You Know I. Think we're just enamored with again. It's the outside stuff and I think reality TV kind of influence that a little bit like. or Oh, how about the become like an influence her watch me on. The Lancer. So we're just addicted to all of that stuff because it's an outside thing and it really comes from within I mean did celebrity Rehab and I was like a little celebrity for about a minute and I did a lot of TV interviews that was going to CNN and Bio Channel E. News these during the days when everything wasn't politics and then it ended wasn't doing so much of that. You know and then it's like, who am I now? Am I god be likes me nobody's calling me interviews and had nothing to do with me. You know we've got to be really careful. Will you're dateable now? So there you go i. Get on very high ranking is I'm very very impressive. You have this this obviously are really good at what you do and you know your staff and help you know hopefully mostly healthy so that you can you know talk about health issues in a healthy. Know. That's that's our goal with this podcast and I think this is a great way to talk about takeaways. Our trademark is on dateable. We want to take away from all this great information that you just gave us. So I can kick that off I. think the number one takeaway is addiction is unhealthy. No matter what you're addicted to I. Think I say I'm addicted to happiness, and that's also an unhealthy addiction and being addicted to relationships has so many dangerous to your own self worth and your identity, but I think first and. Foremost is just unresolved upbringing trauma and issues from the past that we tend to cover up with relationships, and so I, think again, my biggest takeaway is one acknowledging that you have an addiction and to sitting with that pain I have a few friends who are addicted to quite a diverse range of things but they always say that there's that pain that they want to go away and don't sit with it they wanted to go.

01:15:02 - 01:20:03

Right thing. Right. It's really important to to sit with it and I think the other takeaway I have is a lot of times we think about relationships as this cardboard paper cut out. So it could anybody could sit in there and fulfil this role of a boyfriend or girlfriend or partner but we don't when we actually enter into relationships we are having them conform into what our idea of that partner should be. Oh absolutely. And I. AM guilty of doing that too because we fantasize in my during my single days I fantasize about my future boyfriend will be like, but nobody's GonNa be that a cardboard clout I mean it's just nobody's going to be that exact person. So nobody is perfect but you just WanNa be clear you know your that's why when you do the work, the trauma work, your body will tell you something's not right. You know when? I when I broke up with this, this last person I started getting anxiety because I knew something wasn't right and and you just gotta listen what you know what your brain forgets. Your body doesn't that is exactly what my third takeaway is is feeling your body. I. Think Sometimes, we forget that I don't know if you have a Migraine for days, it's not just unique dehydrated it could come from other trauma and yoga teachers. Always, say you hold a lot of emotional stress in your hips severe hips are tight. There's something going on in your body. So we need to listen to our bodies in addition to our heart and mind right some of my takeaways definitely just becoming aware that this is another form of an addiction like I think like I mentioned before when I read this book, little things did pop up from me while I might not be. A. Full blown relationship addict while there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe there's areas that I can take now and look like how this is showing up and am I putting too much of a fantasy onto someone or am I getting ahead of myself in different areas and I think like the ultimate piece to is like not being not being afraid to be alone like I think we have to drown out society like we have to. Like take a step back and just make sure that we're at the end of the daily wear. Happy. Whatever that means I think. So much of US believe that a relationship will make us suddenly happy and that's why we're relationship addicts were trying to fill a void. We're trying to jump to next and I know personally like all the times where attracted like actual healthy happy partnerships was when I was in a good place myself. And I think if you are feeling like. You said Sherry like there's a pattern here like all the partners I'm I'm dealing with like I'm miserable in these relationships. Yet I still WANNA stay being in a relationship is better than not being in relationship I think it's time to take that pause in feel like it's okay to be alone for a little lake, your I think a lot of people are afraid to stop dating and being in relationships because there's like a time crunch that's happening in this. Yeah we can't we gotta keep moving we can't stop but often. Like taking that pause actually is moving you way ahead because you're not just on a hamster wheel doing the same thing over and over again. A perfect takeaways. Any better than a two if you maybe both become therapists. You're very intuitive. I, mean really. Being endorsement. There's just a lot of intuition here you know and a lot of stuff that seems very healthy and I think you also both learned a lot to absorb with your audience. And one last question for you. Since you are on the database podcast, what is being dateable mean to you being in a healthy place and ready to allow healthy lab in your life boom, and then forever for anyone that wants to read your book and also join the community that you mentioned. Can you give us a little? You know where to find it how to get involved all the details. Yeah. So the book is Love Smack how to stop the cycle of relationship addiction codependency to find everlasting love and that's on Amazon and it comes out September twenty second and the community. I think you're GONNA put in your shown out yes. The link it's backup recovery for codependence and it's a constantly growing breathing membership. So there's GonNa be a lot more in there about love addiction. There's a lot in there right now about codependency there's a lot about the law. Of attraction because part of attracting is using the lava attraction what you put out there into the universe and if you are feeling healthy and you feel good about yourself, you can have a better chance of attracting that back in. So it's kind of a a little bit of everything and it's just a great group of people. So thank you for sharing that link with your audience. Of course, it's a dollar to try it out for a week. Got Nothing to lose. -actly right Sherry. Gabe everyone. Thank you so much for being on our show and we will continue to work on on ourselves as we as we navigate this crazy world of modern dating.

01:20:04 - 01:21:31

If you loved. Sherry like as much as we did, please leave us a review and apple podcasts because that helps us to get wonderful guest like sheree simple five stars worth say something Nice we love it all and if you like to be a guest on our show, we are still looking for guests for the season to go to our website dateable podcast dot com and we're always looking for interesting stories tidbits and experts were just people who wanNA share. All right. We're going to wrap this up. Stay. Little. dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Five more podcast. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tag as an any post with a hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com there you'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast. Google. Play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.