S11E8: Puppy Play

00:00:00 - 00:05:01

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of datable a show all about modern dating were we dig dig dig into the whys of people's behavior why people behave and say and do the things that they do when it comes to Modern dating. This was another eventful crazy week here like 20 20, what else you got? Its only October to us, but Trump with the covid-19 S. I didn't believe it at first I admit I was wrong. Is skeptical of it, but now I'm starting to come around. I mean the fact that it's like spread to a bunch of different people in the white house. I don't know. I mean obviously wish him Health, you know, like you never want to wish someone not help if she gets so crazy to me that like him and all the people in the White House just have not been wearing masks that and it proved to me that nobody safe and I think we kind of forgot about covid-19. This big I love that you're like, I have something special to share with you and wouldn't say what if this is it? This is my Supreme to you this water bottle. Okay, so she sent me the link, Francis love you for it. But on the link this water bottle looks super cute. I was like, oh I could take that around. I did not think about how big one gallon was you get a gallon of milk, right which language you like a week or two. This is a gallon water. You're supposed to drink on a daily basis. And when I got it in the mail, I was like fuck I gotta drink this whole thing in a day. I'm just peeing every hour wage like every 30 minutes hoping that I can flush out any chances of covet that's that's my goal. Is this the new Hydro chlorine dioxide trick. Thanks. Thanks for that. I've definitely going to do it. I am not going to get one that big I'll be on the hydration Challenge from not getting that water bottle that you just shared. So that's out. I think a gang Is a little bit overboard overboard definitely a reminder that cope it's not gone. I think that was loud and clear in the fact that like people that were thinking this was a hoax is now like oh wait something's happening. I don't know. I feel I don't want to spread conspiracy theories. So I will go too deep but I won't be the only one. I don't know if I fully believe it which is sad because it's like that is saying so much already. I was talking to a friend about it and she was like the fact that you are even questioning it and I'm just me there's like a ton of Western. It just says so much about our country and the divide and all of that choice. So one thing we've been talking about forever that we really want to do now that it's you know election time is we would love to do a dating experiment about having two people with opposing political views. Like we've done some polls on Facebook and everyone gets very heated around this topic. So like could people with opposing views really dig each other like is it possible and there's a couple of theories birth It's a it's about do Opposites Attract. But then if you don't have similar values and beliefs, could you overcome that if everything else falls into place? So we are looking for six people who are first and foremost single that the criteria that is a must also very passionate about politics and willing to be set up on a date with someone who may have opposite political views. I'm like tempted to do it. It sounds really interesting cuz I feel like there's so many stereotypes that go with the opposing view like it would be really interesting to see like if that breaks down. I know it's a sample size of one. It's not a scientific study, but it would still be super interesting to get you know, like a real life example who doesn't want to be set up and then be interviewed on the table podcast. It's like off exactly. It's like a bucket list item. Everyone should have I feel like all of the people that we've done this with have like now, you know just means so much strives and they're dating life whether to find that person or dead. Get more confident on their own.

00:05:01 - 00:10:02

So it is a win-win for everyone. I want to say this to I want to emphasize the goal of this experiment is not to make fun of people with political beliefs that we personally Julie and I personally may not believe in it's just purely to see it's a social experiment and we're not here to reprimand make fun or offend anybody. It's just to see if two people with opposing political beliefs can get along and maybe develop something romantically. That's it. Exactly. No judgment Zone here. Everyone has a right to their beliefs, which is a reminder. You know, this is our home I say that we have to do as podcasters is to go vote no matter what your political lines are. Like again. We're not going to spew political advice. We might have opinions, but we're never going to like tell they're right or wrong, but definitely exercise your vote because I think especially like with all of this happening with Trump getting covid-19. That doesn't sideswipe this election off. How important it is and if you were in the camp of saying, well, I live in a state where my vote wouldn't really matter because everybody would vote the same way. I do imagine if everybody in a state where it like even fifty percent of the people in the state felt the same way you did and they didn't go vote. That's a problem. And that's why your vote does count even though if you think that your one little vote can't really sway anything. That's not how it works. I will say I know people are like, oh, I don't want to vote for either candidate. So either won't Vote or I'll vote for someone else on the ticket. That's clearly not going downward at the end of the day. If you do that, you're just not voting. Yo, like exercise your vote. Who is the better of both, you know, just it's it's our right. It's us making a voice. It's the best thing you can do a job in November. It's coming up. It's coming up going to be a crazy Buzz. That's for sure. It's already crazy October 1st to go crazy. I know I saw that some people Had already started their 20 21 calendars like they're not even looking at the rest of 2020 but there's still so much more that could be happening. It's like a really good I guess a really interesting T show that still has four more episodes left or something. You know, you're like what there was so many memes about that. That was like, here's the plot twist for October. Sure. That's covid-19. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's also a conspiracy theories about the whole election getting postponed. Oh, yeah get too deep into them. But yeah, it's it's going to be a wild ride. I've seen some people were doing like sober October. I think like Joe Rogan's like podcast group does that and they were like, I don't know if we can do a sober October because it's about to get real and I thought yeah as I take a sip from my gallon water bottle that building that frog of the end you always like on the call just like okay. Yep. Hydrated, that's all listen. Let's get to our would you rather because I there was so much discussion around this. I want to make sure we get you all the points the Whizz you rather for last week was if you found out the next time you'll fall in love is five years from now and you had the ability to time travel Julie's favorite thing. Would you rather a head to five years from now or be Thursday put and wait it out. So like some clarifying questions. Of course, do you lose the five years like you lose them from your life? Yes is covet disco is like able to be fast forward and then those five years cuz that knows the difference who knows there are a lot of unknowns invite in the five-year a lot of unknowns. So my friend Emily wrong, she's like, what do you mean? This is such an easy one fast forward to love, you know, yeah. People writing that and then there were other people who said I would not lose a day in my life. My children, I don't want to lose five years with them. And then there was a lot of flip-floppers saying well, I've been single and lonely for so long. I would pretty much give anything to find love right now. But in those five years you never know what could happen and then you also this is a good point. You don't know what your fast-forwarding to like. What if there's a covid-19 .0 like your fast-forwarding to and Julie I thought about like the last time I said, I love you to someone was in 2009. Okay, and then my boyfriend I said, I love you in March of this year. So if if this question were posed to me in 2009 and it's like fast forward to the next time I fall in love, which is twenty-twenty. I would have fast forward it to covet that's a good point. Well, I think another thing that did come up that I agree with is, you know, there's more to life than finding relationships. Like that's not the whole part of life like being single like is not the end of the world. You have the most self growth in like different things that you can experience during that time. So for that reason alone, I would not fast forward.

00:10:02 - 00:15:05

I would stick it out because I just don't think that's all that's out there. Like I think it'd be great to be with your person. But if you're going to be with them anyways in five years, like what's the rush you might as well enjoy all this other stuff. I'm going to give a little teaser of a guest that we have booked that's coming up case Kenny that we're super excited about and I've been listening to something. And he has this journal that's called single is your superpower and I think what he was saying was so much of it. I totally resonate with the fact that like, this is your time to like build yourself in like understand yourself. So then when you are in a partnership, you don't lose yourself, like everyone has different timelines and maybe you're saying oh I've already built myself more than enough and I'm ready to fast forward but I think every day I learned something new so I would forward. Yeah. I'm in the same boat and in the words of Monica our friend and also part of our Facebook group. She said why is everybody so responsible? Their answers. It's like a responsible answer. Right? No life is too short. I'm going to you know, stay in the five years and not skip over but it is true. I think about even just this may seem so crazy to some people but I don't want to lose five years of my dog's life because those are dog years. Okay, he's all right, huh nine. Yeah in five years. I don't know what's going to happen to him. I don't watch those five years that's like five years with your parents like five years five years old five years with so many things and that comes with personal development a lot could happen in five years. I agree. And also I'm falling in love is a little different than staying in love and maintaining a relationship. So what have you fast-forward to five years you do fall in love, but thank you fall out right away. Yeah too many. I I agree. I think yeah, just you know, like you gotta take life for what it is and everything is a building block. But what did the people say? What did our listeners vote in? I always love to know the final numbers 7 a.m. Four percent said they would stay put and not fast forward. So that leaves 26% saying fast forward to love interesting. So it's pretty much the Monopoly or the majority was just saying stay where you are. Yeah being responsible quote unquote responsible. Yeah. Well I have news I have my first socially distance date coming up this week. This is the first one you'll be going on is the first one I've done some video dates and some phone dates. This is my first date since March is that crazy? Like first date with someone new I should pop off. Is she in between March and may that I was revisiting an old relationships, right? That wasn't really dating though. I don't view it as you know, so and also that's when like covid-19 at its peak. So when we were together we weren't like going on dates. Anyways, we're driving my house. Yeah, you know exactly this is my first date which is so crazy, you know like masks on dead. But I needed that time to myself after and honestly, I've been kind of like screening a bit. Like I haven't been brushing to meet every last person and while I don't know if this person is my like soul mate, I can say that we had to really good conversations and it makes me comfortable to meet him. I understand his levels of, you know feeling towards covid-19 match mine. So I feel like I was able to assess all that out and it may not be a romantic connection. It's hard to really know till you're in person but I don't think I will go and have a bad time. Like I think we'll be able to have a conversation which is really all you could ask for a month at the end of the day and what is this date? What does it entail? So we haven't fully figured it out. It's not till Thursday. We actually we talked about drinks and going to Fillmore Street, which is like an air bag of town near my house in Pacific Heights. So we haven't like nailed down the location exactly, but it will probably it will probably result in drinking and eating somewhere and we actually have this pretty e Debate on the Facebook group of is a walk a good first date. Some people were very much Pro walk. Like this is a great low investment way to just casually get to know someone and see if there's chemistry and then other people were absolutely no. No, it was like I don't want to carve out time in my schedule for something that doesn't feel like a date and I probably five or more on the second Camp of I've been on walk dates before and to be honest, like they've never really been anything like they were either fine or it wasn't a fit and I just feel like you're kind of setting yourself up for just a status quo date in my personal opinion is I would rather screen people on video or phone first. So when I'm actually going off and getting ready to meet someone I'm like going on like more of a date that being said like we've talked about before if someone wants to make it like a walk to the beach and have a picnic or off. Like a walking tour of the city not just like oh we're going to like go on a stroll down the block that I can do myself.

00:15:05 - 00:20:02

I have very strong feelings about this really I am so I am strongly opposed to walking dates because psychology shows that the only way you can establish a strong connection with someone is when you make eye contact and you're facing the problem I have with Walking Dead. It's the same I have with movie dates or concert dates is that you're both facing forward. You're not facing each other. How do you establish a connection that way so I I agree I think a walking date only works if you're walking to do something. Yeah. I think it's also really hard to have like an in-depth. I don't know maybe I'm just too like not coordinated, but for me to like walk off and also have like a serious convo is very difficult where I'm like trying to like, you know be witty and shoot the shit with someone and get to know them like I like to sit down and like do a more faced dog. It's deeper convo. Well, also there are just so many distractions. There's street lights as people crossing in front of you there's cars and so you can't have someone's full attention. I just think they're terrible for so there was one point that was made in this debate that did get me thinking though of maybe changing my opinion, but I'm still not a hundred percent wage, Vince cuz I think you can get this from like phone in that stuff. But the feeling was that it's almost like a very casual that you're just, you know, just getting to know someone a little more organically like if you looked at like work and meeting through friends, it wasn't like expected to be romantic immediately. So sometimes some of the trouble with online dates is till you get like all dolled up and you're going to like dinner or drinks or whatever and it's feels like more of an event. So then you're like expecting it to be romantic or not. So that was some of the logic I don't know if I agree with it because off Feel like people are still in a date mentality if you're meeting off a dating app, and I don't know if that just goes away cuz you took a walk. Yeah, I think it really depends on context if you met someone through church. Let's say or through an organization and you're like, let's hang out Saturday want to go on a walk that works cuz you're setting up the premise that you're getting to know each other casually, but also with the expectation that you're going to see each other again, cuz you both belong to this one organization. But if you're meeting off a dating app, I agree the expectation is that it's a date. So let's make it an event. Yeah. I feel like a hike even though it's the exact same thing. But you're in nature. I feel like that feels like even more of a destination. I think there needs to be a destiny destination. You gotta walk to something and with hikes you could get tired in the mid month on like maybe sit and eat a snack and talk to each other with walking. You could just be not facing each other the entire time. So I think if people want to do this cuz I totally get the concerns of like a dog Over times it's a really good alternative cuz you don't want necessarily go to restaurants. I think if people want to do it, they just need to give it a little more structure like we're going to walk to X and we're going to sit there or a little and then maybe we'll walk back or whatever. It can't just be like this ambiguous walk. I would love it if it was like I will come pick you up on foot. Yeah, and then we're going to walk to our first spot and then I have that second spot plan. That's about half a mile away. If you don't mind, we just Meander over there. That's great love that. I don't know if I'd want a first day picking me up at my house though, cuz I don't want them to know where I live. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Especially on foot. You're like, oh, yeah, I can't run away that fast. Yeah, that's true. But maybe like we'll meet at this corner. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. I swear to God though, if my date that I have lined up was like, let's go on a walk. I probably would cancel. So hopefully it doesn't pull that card. I don't think you will but so hopefully he listens to his episode. I know it's still like I know people have been like I've been really digging your date of birth. Dates, I think the one thing that I'm like a little like should I be doing these because I would hate for someone to like listen and think that this is the only way reason why I'm going on dates with them. So I will give as much as I can. But if I you know, like if there is something that actually blossoms you might hear a little delayed just out of privacy for someone else. Well, I I think you should also have this rule Julie is that you would only took about them in a way that you would also say the same things to their face right not about talking behind their back, but you're also more uncomfortable to say these things to them to yep. Although a lot of my exes were like, I would have liked to talk about me more. So who knows who really? Okay, you want to hear about themselves. My boyfriend's exact opposite like please don't. Please don't makes me really nervous. I don't know what you're going to say, but you know what today is a good episode off. Let's get let's dig ourselves out of this through a 180.

00:20:02 - 00:25:24

Yes. Let's do a complete 180 talk about putting yourself in sometimes uncomfortable situations. We've talked about fetishes and Kinks off other episodes and we're constantly looking for new ones cuz it's just so fascinating and it's someone else is this is something I had to realize recently is a fetish to you as someone else's Comforts them. Let's not was it don't yuck. They're young like that was the statement which I think is words to wisdom to live by for not just fetishes pretty much anything in life anything in life. So our guest today is here to talk about puppy play you a secret fetish my secret fetish not so secret anymore. Everybody loves knows I love dogs, but you'll hear on this episode that I also love being a dog no longer a secret. We've heard about puppy play years ago, Julie, I think through someone else but we didn't really know how long This group was and what it really entailed and where the different layers so I'm glad we got someone who was been very involved in the community to talk and there was on the episode as I said eating it. There was a request to show some of the video the footage of him in his puppy outfits on YouTube Yo off, you know reveal this a little further but this episode definitely opened my mind because I think also like in San Francisco, especially I mean there's a reason why like San Francisco is always been like a counterculture capital and like, you know, especially with like homosexual relationships really like taking off here and being like the place where everyone goes so there's always been ass like a norm here, but that being said, I've never like dug this deep into what this fetish is. Like we did with the diaper fetish episodes of you missed that definitely check that one out, but I think this one I've definitely thought People in public are walking around but I just never knew like the background of it fully and I'm guessing if you don't live in San Francisco, this could be like super foreign to you. You probably have never seen anyone in public life before so, you know mind blown opening up. This is educational for all I will always remember the statement monogamy is a fetish. Yes, I think about that if if monogamy is something you're used to if it is a fetish for other people, maybe it's just not something that other people are into or they think it's totally out of the ordinary wage selves and that's what it is finding your interests and finding finding like the thing that you're really excited about and our guess is really excited about populist. He was like, please put up all the photos all the videos of me and my pumpkin we will honor that request. He's very proud of the costumes. I love them too. That's enough of a tease for this episode cuz I think you know, People should really listen before we get to the episode. We do have some announcements some really fun announcements one being we haven't done live streams in a really long time. So we are not going to do one next week. This live stream will be the beginning to kick off something you would bigger. How ambiguous can you be in one sentence. So we are doing the LifeStream on the 15th on Thursday night at 5:30 p.m. Through our Facebook group. We are going to try to record it though so we can get it out. If you're not a Facebook user but this is an extra push to join a Facebook group, which you know, you've been wanting to do anyways, it's going to be great because we have so much planned like we're not going to reveal too much right now. Like there's like a little project that's been brewing and we're super excited about it and we can't wait to share it all with you and if you just follow us on Instagram or if you are in our Facebook group, that's when you get kind of like first look. Yep. Everything it's very exclusive behind-the-scenes. So if you're really curious about what we're up to just follow us on social and and another announcement is we say this every day, but we really mean it a reviews ratings. Please five stars on Apple podcast. It really helps our podcast grow like Julie and I created this from scratch almost five years ago almost five years ago almost five years as independent creators. There aren't that many independent creators that have been able to get up in the charts. So you guys is leaving us those ratings and reviews has really helped like there was a time that we were in the top 25 relationship podcasts. So we would love to get up there again. We love to be in the top five days after brene Brown obviously obviously watch out brene. We're coming for you. We're coming for you brene. We also love supporting other podcast. So we want to promote the this podcast we've talked about before they're called the magic Hour podcast spelled m a j for Mercedes and Jay the two female host of the show their show is all about self-healing introspection and becoming a light for others a show dedicated to uncovering Life's most coveted of truths where they interview world-renowned guests from all walks of life revealing the specific recipe for becoming a remarkable person.

00:25:24 - 00:30:05

I love love the sound of that. They also include a section in every episode where they relay what they call a magic trick. So it's kind of like our takeaways Julie they do this like magic trick. Would you like a little life hack of some sort that helps you to just do better in wasn't love a hack. Everyone loves a hack. Yeah gauging by song Popular. Our episode was last week. Yes hacks to looking your best. Oh my goodness people love hacks, and we also have a message from our wonderful partner birth. We always say that there is no one-size-fits-all solution to dating because everyone so different and funny enough the same applies to Hair Care to yeah. That's right. We've all been there where a friend recommends a good shampoo that they should love and then you try it and you're like, I don't love it. So function of beauty is about to change all of that by formulating Hair Care specifically for you how specific function of Beauty has over fifty four trillion possible ingredient combinations to make sure the formula is unique to you and Julie you recently had a chance to try it tell us about your experience. I did I loved it. You got to like, you know, a customized it on the site. I actually even was able to name it and pick the colors and I chose the colors and called it function of datable. So it was super fun. And yeah, I've just loved it. It's been like such a great shampoo and conditioner and yeah, it makes me smile every time I use it too and at the internet's top rated customized Hair Care brand function of Beauty has over 40000 real Five Star reviews khong Gus all of our five star reviews are real. So what are you waiting for go to function of beauty available to take your for part hair profile quiz and save 20% on your first or or go to function of Beauty dateable for 20% off and let them know you heard about it from our show again that's function of beauty secrets. Puppy play. Are we ready? We're ready. Let's hear from Chris. Let's just get right to it. Should we we should just get right to it do it. We've talked about fetishes before and she made this distinction fetishes are very different from Kinks and we thought well, we should really diversify what other fetishes are out there. And there's one we discover that is completely fascinating to me. I mean, I think all of them very fascinating but this one in particular puppy play. I feel like if you were to have a fetish this would be it. I think I I do have it. I just didn't have a name for it. I think after this episode you're going to be just you know, my home alone and exposed to all these sorts of things. I can't wait to open up my world to a puppy play but our guest today I want to introduce him. His name is Chris. He's thirty-two years old originally from Spokane Washington and he's been in San Francisco for two years his current status. I loved it. He's hooking up and having fun single and actively going on dates and divorced. Wow, that's basic phone. Check the three of the five. So what is puppy play? We had to look this up because I want to make sure we're using the right words here. And also we're being various scientific on how we Define it off. It's a constantly evolving fetish which already is like obviously, there's no one way to do this where people have an interest in the role play as canines and their Associated handlers historical records show at first appeared in Europe in the seventeenth Century while gaining popularity with the invention of the internet in the 1990s Chris. Would you add anything to this definition based on your experience? Yeah. So a lot of puppy play actually has origins in a broader fetish field called pet play in general and the first documented cases of some of these pathetic Community were actually out of the 1940s in the form of Pony play the earliest forms that were in that community and you can actually see some of the people that engage in Pony play at Folsom Street Fair. They'll be the ones that pull khong Behind them and it can be either men or women that engage in that where you're either a stallion or a mare. So there's there's that realm and the earliest forms of puppy play which is a dehumanizing a form of dominants and submissives started being documented as early as the sixties but really caught up in in popularity and the year two thousand or so and later. So it's actually a fairly new thing to become so popular within the leather slash fetish community. So we're going to go into puppy play and way more detail clearly. That's the episode but could you for anyone that doesn't know Folsom Street Fair because we have a lot of non sfm.

00:30:05 - 00:35:05

There's two could you kind of like paint the picture of what Pony play is a little more absolutely. So for a broader context the Folsom Street Fair is I either one of the world's or the world's largest fetish Fair wage. It occurs once a year here in San Francisco. So they block off I believe it's like thirteen thirteen blocks here in San Francisco where fetishes are on display and there's a lot of aspects of this that are pretty dead. Cursive by a normal cultural perspective there's free public nudity. There's flogging in the streets. There's a bunch of other things on display as well. So Pony play generally happens early on in the festival where there will be a group of people dressed up in various gear that's going to include proves that cover their hands bridles and bits tied to themselves. Some of them have fully articulated horse masks as well and they will often dragged carriages behind them with their Doms on the back there. So the people who are the drivers are the ones that are the the sort of active dominant in that relationship. It's important to clarify that there is no bestiality of any sort in pet Play It's humans dressed up as animals absolutely not doing anything to actual animals. Just want to make sure that yeah, one of the things about the fetish community in general is actually it's an extremely communication based space consent is is very very important because you have wage Find clearly what you're into and what other people are into because by its very definition you're often into something that is not common or not immediately understood by everyone so that communication and consent a Samsung is really really important which is why this is not bestiality where animals cannot consent. This is very explicitly something that's between two adults that have an understanding of what they're doing. I'm so glad that things like babe, the clear distinction that this is not like a fetish with animals. It's people like dressing up as animals. I think that's very important as we keep going. So, I guess what got you into this in the first place. How did you get here? Yeah. So when I was in graduate school a couple of years ago, I was involved with the gay community there. There was a leather scene which basically means that in the gay community. There are people that gave us up in leather as a part of nightlife events. It's partially a statement of fashion, but also there's a community in history there and it's something that as a graduate student. I didn't have any income so I couldn't actually act wage. Participate in that Community, but once you where was it vegan leather that you were fluttering know whether one hardest that I that I could like that I has the Splurge. That was the one thing that I could have leather is an extremely expensive hobby just because it's really Niche and the the goods that are made they're very high-end kind of thing. So how I eventually got in a puppy play in particular was when I came here to San Francisco. I got a job in Tech where I was making a lot more money and I went to store here in San Francisco called mr. S em either and they have a lot of different leather goods on display. I was originally they're just looking for a pair of suspenders that I saw online that I thought were really sexy but then I saw they have this entire first section. I believe it's called the kennel dedicated to a lot of this puppy play gear where they have masks and tales and leashes and collars and I spent my first job. Months here going into that store once every couple of weeks trying absolutely everything on cuz they're extremely friendly and welcoming to people that just want to try things on see what's there they're very informative. So I'm like hey, do you want to try this on once again turns out that once I put the hood on there was sort of a feeling of oh, this is kind of nice like oh oh and there was a feeling it's really difficult to put into words, but it felt kind of sexy and interesting about two months into going to the store bought my first Hood which I have since donated to another baby. I couldn't afford his own cuz I have several others. Who do you like for anyone that's of that Governor? Like I like I've seen some photos online so I know it looks like but can you describe it for anyone that just has no idea what this looks like? Yeah. What is a what is a hood look like? Yeah. So there are a lot of different forms in which these hoods take some of the ones that are are pretty more accessible and familiar to people or just masks song. Are often used sometimes they have leather clasps on the back, but it's really common that they're made with neoprene or leather. Some of them are also made with vegan materials because that's also something that people consider or place. They protect you from covid-19. So no, unfortunately, they actually even open area. So I consider modifying my pup Hood with a filter so that I could go out in public like that. Can you imagine occasionally I do go on walks by myself in my gear nice. The actual hoods take the form of a full coverage mask that you pull over your head IT classes around the neck the neoprene ones you just pull over cuz I'm flexible.

00:35:05 - 00:40:10

The the leather ones have leasing down the back and in the front they have a design that makes it look like you have a muzzle often times. They'll have I'm Rosen years on them. So there are specific form of a classic fetish mask where you probably seen like the classic gimp mask which has a full leather coverage. It's the same fundamental there, but with additional pieces on the outside wage Get like canine. Do you have any that you can show is right now? I do I have to I knew you'd be ready for this. This is my first one. It's it's leather. I have donated so it took us up the back here and this is actually a mr. S hood. That was my first leather hood that I got and the one that I've actually become more known for is this one? Oh my God, looks like a full-on dog for any thoughts on the Nazi it it has like the knows it's brown. It has full on ears post this video on YouTube because people need to see how beautiful these math song So for anybody just listening to them go on our YouTube channel right now cuz you'll see the video. This mask is so intricate. Yeah. So this is this is cowhide this so this is a a creator that I saw his work in Chicago at home or their he makes a variety of both animal themed masses and masks and leather superhero gear. So he's in that sort of Niche fetish space. So this mess because it has fur its birth. Leather Which is less common. It's it's the one that gets a little bit more notoriety. Oh, yeah, I was going to say but they look really hot. Maybe it's just it's so hot in San Francisco lately, but my face is sweating. Just looking at these mats am comfortable. The one of the fur on it is more comfortable cuz it's open in the back. It doesn't actually have anything on the back here. So it's like a saddle almost. Yeah, so it's a lot more comfortable to wear. This one. The other one is a a full lace up Hood where you have your your mouth exposed and your eyes, I won't say it's particularly comfortable. But when you're in the space, you kind of Disconnect from that. Anyway, it's not really about that so much so not something that I would advise for warm-weather at all. So well, but you made the point that this kind of spawned out of the leather culture. So I guess everyone's used to wearing leather all over their body. It's not like a huge surprise when they put it on. Yeah, and the comfort of these various materials is not key into the fetish at all. In fact adjacent to the leather Community is the rub. Community which is very much into like full body latex. Wow. Oh by its very definition is not breathable. It's not comfortable. You literally have to cover yourself in in some kind of lubricants just to get into the clothing. So it's it's definitely not about Comfort per say. Yes go say thinking about like all the different attire and Folsom Street Fair and none of them. Look overly comfortable. If it's true. It's true. Have you seen my dog Hood? This is a Mojo Hood. He's made out of real me out of a dog. I feel like you need like a white one. Is it like mimic mojo on YouTube for anyone who can't see I've just brought up my son Mojo. He's next to me. But oh my gosh, this is so I'm like learning so much already. So I know that in the definition of puppy play there's a Handler and there's a canine. Do you have a particular role that you prefer or do you like switch back and forth? What is the difference between the two also for all the noobs, you know absolutely dead. So puppy play traditionally was a modification of classic dominant-submissive master-slave relationship. Whereas instead of being what it was terminologically a daddy and a boy became more of a different kind of dynamic where there's a Handler who or a trainer and a pop. So the pup is the one that follows commands is obedient to see you the the Handler but it's a little bit more I would say affectionate than a master-slave relationship where it's it's much like an owner and their dog where there's an obvious power dynamics are but they're still affection involved, right? So if that's mimicked in these relationships, however, not all pups have handlers not all pups want handlers. Some pups will have relationships with other pups instead some of them believe in life Alpha Beta Omega Dynamics where they'll have sort of interpump thing. I am bisexual verse switch anything that has multiple fields of Interest. I like all of its job. So I like men and women I like being dominant and submissive. I like being a pup and a Handler are open. Love it. Yeah, like a lot of things way. But how do you switch roles? If you already half the dog hood on page and then you want to be the handler do you take just take it off and then you switch roles timeout generally when you're doing some sort of fetish scene and that's often what they're called is called a scene where you have sort of understanding about how you're going to be gathering together. What is the the dynamic and the agreement involved? So if it's explicitly a pup seen that can occur either in private or public where the understanding it's like there's a clear delineation of how rolls are going to be involved there at that time.

00:40:10 - 00:45:04

Now that doesn't always happen sometimes like the play can go for a certain amount of time and then you're like, okay, let's take off and just get the sex because that's kind of where we are. It is an impediment in a way so okay. So could you walk us through like is it like a party? Like do you just like are you on page? Websites to find other pups. Like how does everything go down? Yeah. So there are a lot of different ways that people get into this community and get involved in almost every city in the United States that are pup meetups wage. So pop meet up here in San Francisco was held at the ego which is the the main leather bar. It was called wolf where you had meet up on a Saturday afternoon. So it's just this is an afternoon. We're during the daytime they bust out some wrestling mats and a whole bunch of pops, but on their here and just do a place called it's called moshing where the fuck you literally play. They'll wrestle they'll play dog toys, they'll lay down and and get pets and Cuddles. So it's like it's like a dog boarding school. Have you ever got it? Like someone that didn't realize what it was they just thought it was like for dog lovers. Yeah lovers like it's a dog meet up a wolf like this is not what I patch. I think most people are are pretty aware that if you go to the Eagles suck. Particular sure. It's kind of the showcase for a lot of fetish events and plus that evening the wolf evening leads into the furry night where people are in full on plush costumes. Yeah off and some people stay for both cuz they're in both communities. So there it's definitely especially here in San Francisco. In other cities people might be a lot more uncertain or confused by somebody wearing a dog mask, but I kind of walked from my gym a couple of blocks away from the eagle in a dog Hood a leather harness like leather shorts and Boots a couple of blocks and people don't even look at celebrity seen it before the string cheese. It's let me too I don't think I knew the full extent of the fetish though. Like I thought it was just like part of the leather a little more. I don't think I like realize the sub community that was happening and it can be both also when I think that it's just they think about like wearing as at least as possible and this is like the ones that it's where you're trying to where as much as possible. Let's put on the leather and then the hood and then ended up first choice. Party for four people. That's what my skills are different communities for sure. I not they're not actually lying. There is a lot of overlap because there's that dehumanization aspect in both of them potentially wage just to make clarify that there is a significant portion of the community that I actually just use this as a form of expression that don't include this in a sexual context and that's actually predominantly what I use puppy play for it General me something that happens in public it has to do with a form of exhibitionism. It's also a form of immediate and accessible intimacy and affection. So I will go to see you bar events at the Eagles. So they have these Sunday bar events where I will wear my hood walk around and let people Petmate because it's fun Chris when you say cuz you keep using the word dehumanization when you use that word faith in what context are using is it like a a positive thing or is it I guess I'm not understanding it. Yeah, so that word has a very negative connotation to most people the same thing with objectification. Yep. Both think that that's a very negative thing. But in the fetish Community, this is the goal of what a lot of people are trying to achieve. This is something that turns people on the idea of being made into someone's object in a master-slave is something that actively attracts some people in the same vein that being dehumanized being treated like an animal rather than a person is actually something that's attractive two Puffs or or a lot of them anyway, so there's something very freeing about not having to engage in the same level as other people. You don't have to pay attention. You don't have to speak you don't have to there's this headspace called puppy dog or pup space where people will often times get into well there in that modified headspace. It's almost like you're a different person. I as somebody who spend most of my waking hours May Vary syrebral fast-moving Tech space completely disconnecting from that to just be like, well, I don't have to worry about any of that. I'm a dog for the next 2 hours and I'm just going to like lay here. And people want to come up and pet me that's fine. But in the same, I mean it's like there's a lot of like respect their that is not necessarily for like a master-slave thing if I'm a pop and I have a Handler for the day or if I'm walking around I expect to be treated much like you would treat any strangers dog, like ask ask my Handler to pack for you, But often times there's an agreement between pup and Handler that I trust my hands are to provide consent for me and I don't need to to make that so there's a lot of different ways that people approach that and there's a lot of degrees I consider myself more of a stray or a lone wolf where I don't really have that.

00:45:05 - 00:50:07

I don't really have time like the village dog. So it's like I I kind of go where I'm from house to house all the love. And do you pee on hydrant? No, I won't say so I will I don't personally some people take the the dog metaphor very thoroughly all the way to like physical things. There are certain aspects of Pop play that I don't really find all that fun job. We don't like moshing all that much. I don't like wrestling. I don't like squeaking with dog toys. I don't like howling but there are a lot of people that really do they like go like leaning into that. I generally prefer it as just a quiet almost meditative space where I can be observant without being a participant and just disconnect. So I have a question. Cuz I know you mentioned that it's not always a sexual thing for you. But you mentioned when you first figure it out you were into this when you were in the store you got turned on by it. Can you kind of give like wage what that distinction is? Like is there still a turn on even if it's not sexual? Yeah, so I would describe it almost like a garment that you would wear that you feel particularly attractive or or like sexy in life. So it's it's not like you want to wear that sexy leather jacket while you're having sex you're wearing it because it makes you feel sexy and Powerful when I'm actually off. Having sex I prefer not to have any of those things involved even some of the harnesses which are made to be held for more traction or like the ability to grab someone. I generally don't even like those involved because I like more freedom than that God. It's so like gets you in the mood it get like turns you on and there's like a sexual energy but doesn't need to be like during sex. Absolutely. I though I have done it during sex as well. It looks like what's the community like like is it mostly gay men? Is it a variety? Like, what does that look like? Yeah. I will say that the puppy community in particular is predominantly gay men though. There are female pups as well. And the community itself is actually really diverse. I will say that it leans a lot younger. There are especially a lot of pups in their late teens and Young Money. Wow, really young? Yeah. So it's it's a very accessible fetish because it doesn't have as much of the Old Guard sort of rigid leather expectations that there's a lot of tradition involved because, Georgia, Fairly new thing it's a lot more accessible. It's it's almost silly in a way where you're free to just let go and silliness is not historically a part of the leather Community which is pretty notoriously stoic but there are a lot of different people and there are pups that are older into their sixties and I haven't actually good friends with a couple of them. There are Pops that do it as a hobby. There are those that took it as a lifestyle. There are packs here in San Francisco where it's collectives of pups that live together. Oh wow better in either a polyamorous group relationship with each other or they are just in a collective group more broadly than that and there are people that consider themselves leather pups or just pops in general. There are people that don't incorporate it into them identity. There are people that do I know people that explicitly they wear a chain with a dog tag at all times. They might have tattoos that I identify them as a pup. They actually enter personally identify a song For me, it's a very fun and fulfilling Hobby and and fetish and do people identify with specific breeds of dogs. They can and who they definitely do, especially when you start getting things custom made some people lean into just the colors or something where they're like, I'm a green pup. So all of their gear will be green eggs and others will be like no. I'm a German Shepherd or I have a temperament that follows this this certain thing, but that's that's less common. And there there's a variety of these other communities that actually bleed over into other sorts of gender breakdowns like Pony play Which is less common is more inclined to heterosexual fetish Community as well. But there's also a sort of kitten play which is the parallel to this which is a lot often a lot more attractive to women. So that's oftentimes a submissive form that say female dog. Meza protect. Yeah, I can totally see why this fetish was skew younger cuz I will tell you last time I was on Molly my boyfriend I decided to see what be like to be a a puppy for an hour. I thought oh, yeah, we were into it. We put our treats in the actual dog food bowl. Okay, we sniffed them out. We like crawled around the apartment and my name he's hurt so bad after this. I was like, I'm too old for this shit people would like to be a few pets there because they get this is something that like if you are actually moving around like a dog there are lyrics explicitly gear for this.

00:50:07 - 00:55:28

There's kneepads you often times need some sort of knuckle protection. So people will use either like MMA gloves or full-on boxing gloves so that they can continuously walk around wage because naturally humans are not we're not built right walking around on two bolts. You just didn't have the right gear I either like so how do you go about getting into the community 5 a.m. The community like how do you even know where to start so I'm asking for you a so she asked me for a friend that happens to be on this call often times. It's as simple as finding a fetish goods store there often times the best resource for a lot of this. So especially those that are purveyors of some kind of leather good and and by law specifically mean fetish leather goods, so they'll be the ones that make restraints harnesses other sorts of fetish gear. They can often direct you to those various areas. Another one is conditioned leather bars in general. So there are Eagle bars across the country which are predominantly gay bars. But those are also available. Also there's a very thriving and active community on life. There are various meeting groups that are there. I'm not really involved with many of them, but it's really just a simple Google search away. So there is an app that some men will use that. I haven't personally use called wage. On which is like it's like a dating app explicitly for fetishes. There's also FetLife which is a more generic version of that which is it has both a gay and straight commission donut. So that's a great segue into your daily life. Like how does pop play show up in your dating life. Are you on like the dating sites? Like do you do put that in your profile page you go on the apps that are specifically for pops or fat life. Like what is that look like for you? Yeah, so currently my dating presents given that we're in a pandemic is really reduced. I'm not going on new dates with people that I don't already know that aren't a part of my bubble. So that's been massively reduced from where it was previously but I am on one app called Scruff it's across that's a great name. So that's that's actually not explicitly for pups. It's generally just for for like furry dudes. It's an alternative grinder because for those of you that can't seem to on video. I'm a very hairy guy off. I'm telling you the gay apps have much better name. So great feathers so much. This is these are so like really what the fuc. Yeah, what the fuc is Bumble? I don't care about bees I care about. Is awesome. And also one of the things about Scruff is when you like someone it's actually you wolf at them you put a sub route. I feel like I would use that did have so much more cuz it's actually fun job like a game in that profile. I mentioned that I'm a pup. I gave my pup named which is Puck. So it's after Midsummer Night's Dream. I have pictures of myself in my pup gear. And that's one aspect. I have had dating relationships where that are not fetish oriented where that made them uncomfortable and for me, it's as much as like somebody being very disapproving or uncomfortable with a hobby that you're passionate about. It's something that you really need to approach with somebody if it's important to you if it's not just, you know a minor interest and it likely isn't given the expense involved in getting full gear. That's home. You just have to communicate about but that's a pretty well understood facet of the fetish community. So it's not a deal-breaker for you. It's no it's not into it. No, and in fact most fetish play most people that are in that Community have an understanding that there's some degree of non-monogamy simply because you're often not going to find somebody that can completely satisfy everything that you're looking for because you have your own unique set of Kinks and fetishes that may not aligned with who you are necessarily partner too. So I actually have this come up in a past relationship of mine that I was a lot more vanilla than my partner wanted to be home. He actually had some concerns about it cuz it was definitely something he wanted to like pursue. It was the first time I think in my life that I thought about. Okay. Is there a solution that he could get this wage elsewhere, you know, like if it wasn't something that I would be down to do and I think especially because it's not always a sexual thing like you were saying earlier like I mean, there's a sexual connotation with birth It's not always sex. Like there's ground rules that you could make with a partner. If you were willing to work together, even if you're not typically someone that's non-monogamous, but I could see even in what you were saying is someone that is non-monogamous. It's just giving a lot more flexibility to different fetishes and openness. Yeah, really good parallel that I found this more accessible to sort of traditional heterosexual couples is the name Association that goes are on around anal sex. So like oftentimes there are partners that are only into vaginal sex or only that are really interested in anal sex and their partner might not be and that extension that's involved with somebody who's really into one sexual practice and the other one isn't often times leads to sexual incompatibility in the relationship and there are ways you can approach that and that's the exact same thing with fetishes if it's important to somebody and something that they really enjoy they will either put those things on a back burner which oftentimes is not particularly fulfilling and doesn't bode well for a fulfilling relationship or they have to find a job.

00:55:28 - 01:00:03

Sort of sources simulation elsewhere. Yeah, I think the way I was thinking of is I would never want to like hold someone back from that side of them. So I would always rather than find it elsewhere. Like I think being open to it is the first place but if you're just like really not comfortable with something then at least there's other options that you it doesn't need to be a deal-breaker necessarily and the The Fetish community in particular is there are a lot of benchmarks because there's a lot of degrees of what people are into there. There's a an expectation of respect their that there is an understanding you will not be into everything that everyone else is there are some fetishes that turn my stomach and if that is that is fine. I don't need to talk about it the the phrase that I I have heard that I I don't like it but it's accurate is don't yuck. Someone's yum where it's like somebody off. That's true. That's great. That's a great phrase. There are lots of degrees there of how you might approach this kind of of play in the negotiations that are involved in a relationship there and juice. Levels to write like there's different levels and like I think pop play could be a fun entry level too cuz it's actually sounds like it could be just fun and silly. Yeah. So often often times Pub play can be as simply as simple as almost a form of like costume play where you like. I'm going to dress up like a dog. I'm going to act like a dog. It's silly. It's very light. It's jubilant its non-sexual in any way that can then move on to either more sexual oriented play or it can move on to more discipline oriented play where there's like active training involved. It can be run into very strict discipline oriented play which can often times have like a sort of training or torture element oftentimes training in the fetish Community often means pushing the boundaries of a submissive within their consent boundaries. There's a safeword often involved where like the submissive is in control. They are the one that can stop that at any given time, but this can go all the way. To like you are just there's to use where like they will use you as they want to for some people that's a huge turn on for me. It is for sure under certain context but by taste go all the way from a very vanilla silly puppy play all the way to consensual non-consent or rape play. So there's like a lot of there's a lot of districts. They're dead. You mentioned something earlier. I found super fascinating is you talked about identity with this fetish. I get I think there's two different ways you either dabble with a fetish or it becomes a part of you and Julie you and I saw this when we went to that sex party in Oakland where for the sex positive Community some people really identify with it. There was a woman that was very open with how she took her co-workers about this lifestyle and there are other people who did not want their co-workers to know. So where is where are you on the spectrum of identity with this with this fetish I identify with the dog? Sort of metaphor involved. They're they're so like you probably can't see it. I have a giant like we're wolf tattoo that I personally like The Duality of like man and animal. I like took you to disconnect but for me, it's what I would call a really fulfilling hobby. It's not it's not my full identity. Even if I have like a pup named or any of those things. It's really only used in certain contact that I find approved. It's not something that I live day in day out some people do have they are a pup. They are someone's pup at all times their relationship Dynamic with somebody would be very dominant and submissive that is like built-in to be there every interaction for me. I would definitely great against that in the context of dating it would be like sure I'll be your dog. And then when we're done with the scene where equals and that is really important to me, so I change the dynamic of being a pup all the time or being someone's pup or being someone's boy. It's not for me. It's not the the kind of way that I approach it when it comes to being open about this month. In say the workplace or with my friends. I hear that towards people's curiosity simply because I won I'm I'm very passionate about having a productive and thriving career. I recognize that fetishes are not something that is workplace appropriate even if it is a large part of my life. So that's something that I fully respect and I don't share in the context of the work-life when it comes down to like my friends even for them unless they ask questions. Something. They really need to know about much like there are some people that will overshare about any hobby that they have that's generally not interesting.

01:00:03 - 01:05:16

Yeah. So how long to leave it to people to ask questions if they're if they're curious and also there are some people that they view it with almost apprehension or even discussed where they don't understand it. It's a form of just lack of familiarity often times. It's the same thing the same kind of impulses that lead to like homophobia from lack of familiarity where it's something that you don't understand it's off. And Hugh personally relate to and for some people that are exposed to it. It's like oh, yeah, he's in the puppy play sure fine. And for other people, it's like that is freaking weird. What's what happened to that guy off make him like this. So it's it's just a difference in perception. So have you had anyone that has been like I will not do this or I will like judges you for it in a relationship or thoughts that you've like come in contact with on dating apps that you've really liked that. This was kind of a deal breaker or did that has that not happened? Oh, it totally has happened. It's absolutely happened. Somebody met me at a party that it was very much. So like I was just in my my every day close we we hung out we hooked up it was great. We ended up going on a couple of dates one of the dates. He met me at a bar that I hadn't planned life in their hands in full head-to-toe pup. He didn't say anything about it at the time but at that point was non-existent and I learned through friends that like that was a hard know for him. Which for me I don't want to I think entering into a relationship with the expectation that people are going to change from the get-go is a really especially if they're apprehensive to something. It's not not a successful strategy. Right? Well, I think it comes down to the level. Like you said that guy was clearly very anti Ed if he was, you know, stopped talking to you and all of that versus that you know might not be down with it, but they're open to it or they're interested in learning more. I think there's like all ranges on the Spectrum there. Yep. And another question about the community do most people have actual dogs that varies a lot. So unfortunately, I love animals. I'm actually like a train. I'm I have a PhD in biology. So I I love animals. Unfortunately, I'm allergic to most at home as well. So I don't have a dog. I love animals. I love dogs. Some people do have dogs as well some I would say that of the people that I know are pups. I think most of them do have dogs like a game. Separate thing obviously their relationships with their dogs have nothing to do with their their puppy play simply because they're they're very distinct. I wonder if it does gravitate thousand people though that like our dog lovers, you know, like there's something about it. That's yeah. I don't know. I think so like an Envy there like I like dogs don't get me wrong. I'm not same level as like you a is I feel like the fact that you were like crawling around with your boyfriend for telling potentially I would never do that. Like that's just would never cross my mind because of just I don't know me. I don know I made a correlation to love for like dogs. Maybe there isn't one. It's totally coincidental. But but I also study my dog every day. I mean I study his behavior. I mimicked him. I actually think I would have a leg up in pop play. I would just be like a really natural. But I also am very jealous of his life and sometimes I look at him like dammit. I wish I were a real dog. That's a month. One of the one of the main draws to this specific sort of fetish and exploration is for people that have seen dogs and the kinds of relationships that they build in the kind of actions that they do. It's like dogs have that kind of Charmed lives where they they are loved and they get to be silly and they don't have like their context lists. Whereas humans are very context-specific. There's this especially when a lot of dogs will approach someone they don't know and they're like hi. I love you and that from a human human interaction is extremely jarring and off-putting. And so there's a jealousy of that ability to make that kind of immediate affectionate connection and as a pup in a community that's accepting to that you have that that's yours to do. So not only is it like expected that's something you're completely free and willing to do so approach somebody that you're interested in and just park next to them and they can like pet you or not. So that aspect of being familiar with dogs and the life that they live often leads to what yep On that and that's non-sexual component. So the the other angle is the enjoying somebody being commanding of you. And so you see how there's like a speck of these things here where some of it is just appreciating the freedom of that dehumanization that I was talking about earlier. We're just let the human things the human limitations go that's really fascinating that goes like more into affection and just play in general too. Shall we kick off takeaways? Yeah. I'm lifting them out in my head. Now. I have I have takeaways about this fetish and just take ways in general of how we can apply some of the things that Chris said I think for this fetish in general, you know, I looked up the definition of fetishes again, cuz I'm always have to refresh my mind and on one song.

01:05:16 - 01:10:04

It is sexual and the other side it's not sexual. You have to remember that and I think the non-sexual side is you have a strong like for something. So we all have fetishes of some sort. We need to destigmatize a.m. This word fetish because if you look at how anybody describes it's like abnormal or its extreme, it's not that it's just a it's just a strong like for something and I really like that context of looking at that. I also love this idea of identity. This is why I asked that question as we come out of quarantine, we've had a lot of alone time. There are some opportunities to tap into this newer identity. Maybe you dabbled into a new hobby or learned a new skill that becomes a part of your new identity and we can keep evolving with that could be a fetish if that could just be a new skill. It doesn't really matter but welcoming that in makes you a much more open-minded person too. Yeah. I think my biggest takeaway is something crazy about this being like an escape and I think that sometimes we think of fetishes as being purely identity and it definitely can be in that could be part of it. But you hear all the time of people that are dead. Missive are usually high-powered at work. It just want a freaking break in the bedroom. So it's like it doesn't necessarily mean that whatever you're doing sexually is who you are outside of that. It's not a component of who you are because it's not just you know, you're one person somewhere and another the other place. It's you as a person in general, but I think that it's the Judgment in all of that. Like you just don't know like fully kind of someone's story and what is turning them on and all of that. So I feel like yeah like this Escape mentality is so interesting because it allows you to you know, like get to know yourself in a different way that you might not see on a day-to-day basis like what you said with the first time you put on the mask with the years and how that made you feel I had goosebumps listening to that because I cannot remember the last time I put on something that made me feel so sexy and powerful and like a brand new person wage. I think we should all find that somewhere. Maybe it's like a outfit you haven't found or you know, it's like almost gives you superpowers. Yeah, and I would I would actually want to comment briefly on something you mentioned about these things being normal or like not being abnormal and I think that they actually are abnormal and the thing about fetishes is it's appreciating the beauty in abnormality know it's like understanding that just because something isn't a common or normal or well understood doesn't mean that it can't be fulfilling or beautiful or something that you identify with very very strongly. So the entirety of the fetish Community is about discovering those things that you like because you like them not because they're they're popular or well understood and the great thing about the fetish Community is we are not collectively all in the the same things, but we're supportive of each other for what we like. I love that. I stand corrected. Everybody be abnormal. It's a great thing. I think I do want to like reiterate that one freij. That you said Chris yuck. Somebody else's yum. I think that is so important and we actually had an episode about diaper fetishes and it started because the woman that we talked to had been long opposition for a diaper fetish in her immediate reaction was to shut it down and we did talk about it on that episode how it's all about hearing someone out and maybe you're not going to be comfortable with it not it's not for everyone every single fetish but I think immediately shutting down someone makes them feel like very unheard and very unseen. So at least ask questions at least try to like understand it and I think also like depending on the relationship maybe you would enjoy some of it a little more like maybe you just don't know like I know I've been there before things that I thought I wouldn't like I actually ended up enjoying so it's staying open-minded and not just being like I'm not going to do this or this is weird or all of that. It's really trying to like, yeah, take it all in and don't yuck some of these young I love it down. Honesty honesty communication and trust you need all of those things when you're breaking into these kind of communities. It's really important to you should not feel pressured into any sort of fetish activity for sure. It's okay to feel uncomfortable to give something to try but a healthy dominant submissive or a healthy fetish connection is with somebody that respects your boundaries as well. So that's that's really important, There's a a common depiction of this sort of play as by definition abusive and it can be as much as any other relationship can so again, every relationship can be frame something.

01:10:04 - 01:13:43

That's healthy. Even if it's not normal. Yeah, and I think also we talked about to if it really is outside of your boundaries and what you want to be doing. There's always other options if it doesn't have to be so like black and white like I'm doing like we're together. We're not together because of a fetish like maybe you can let someone find that elsewhere and it won't be a problem for the relationship. I guess keep an open mind is the big big picture take off. It's always a big picture take away and Chris since you are on the dateable podcast. What does it mean to you to be dateable? I think that being dateable is somebody that is open to enter personal connection for whatever that means and frankly. It's just about openness. Somebody who's not dateable for me would be somebody that is is not open to another connection either. They are overly focused on on themselves and not interested in in branching out. Yeah. I think that datability is is also extremely subjective for like what I would consider a dateable connection love it off pastic and do you if people want to get in touch with you want to ask you more about puppy play could they? Yeah, that's actually really interesting so you can you can get in contact with the vehicle. I believe Instagram has has private messaging that you can reach out to me. My my profile is fuzzy underscore loan underscore wolf great their best handle ever Bear Song Pictures of me just as me that are also like I believe one picture of me and Pub stuff. It's pretty new. I'm pretty new to Instagram in general. But also I'm happy to to answer questions. They're cool and I can always reach out to us to what we can move forward them along. So absolutely yeah fully reaching out and then having connected to me via email there would also be fine cool and for anybody who wants even more information or you can write this down, we'll have it all off show notes as well as on Instagram at dateable podcast also in our Facebook group. If you haven't joined yet Love in the Time of Corona by the dateable podcast, and if you love us cuz we love you five star reviews, please and apple podcast. We love it. Love it love it will give you lots of lakes and hugs and what what else do dogs get treats snuggles package will give you some nuzzles. We'll we'll menu Tommy Ross all the time you wrote so you want we really appreciate it because we love being on great guess like Chris and just open up our mind that's dead. That's what makes dating. So exciting. It's like to see this big world that's out there and we're just exploring just a little bit a little sliver of it. Super great. Thank you so much Chris for your time and telling us you're experiencing life so much for having me. This was so fun. We're going to wrap this up stay home. But dateable podcast is part of the Frolic podcast Network find more podcasts. You'll love at Frolic. Media want to continue the conversation first follow us on Instagram Facebook and Twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tagged as in any post with a hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcast, there. You'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y Series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common birthday. Income and rooms were also downloadable for free on Spotify Apple podcast Google Play overcast Stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.