S11E6: Navigating an Interracial Relationship

00:00:00 - 00:05:05

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we try to dig into the wise of people's behavior. Now, this was pretty sad week as if twenty twenty couldn't get any worse but RPG is. Not with US anymore I know I feel like she was such a feminist icon like I think there is definitely a part of all women in men probably to that shed a little tear for this one. I also love the fact that she was still relevant in her eighties I think that we live in a world where there's so much ageism in our society and she's proven that all wrong she's maintained her relevance if now. She's become even more relevant as she aged I know it's really unfortunate that we no longer have her with us, but her effects will be a lifetime. So there is one quote I found that I mean there's so many that she has around like just you know equality especially in the workplace and just having a voice in the room, but there was one that related to relationships really well exceptionally loved it was women will have achieved. True. Equality when men share with them the responsibility of bringing up the next generation. Amen to that seriously and I think I might have jinxed myself last week talking about baby showers and all of this because I feel like this weekend for me was like full of baby stuff like I had a baby shower on Saturday night one hundred party on today that was virtual. So at least the Hundred Day party was half an hour it. Was Kinda like a quick get in get out and I feel the most uncomfortable I felt with covert at the baby shower yesterday. So if I want to Jake's myself but I feel like it is like payback for all this shit I said about baby showers the following week I'm just really surprised that there was an person baby shower during this time I mean it was outdoors but it was just like there are people that traveled New enough information going in, which is a reminder to like always asked more I made some assumptions and I probably shouldn't have done that I mean hopefully I'm like kidding that hopefully things will be okay like I don't want to jinx myself. But this one was like a very traditional baby shower too with a lot of those games and all that stuff. I failed miserably at most of the Games but I did kill it at the name, the song that has the word baby at in. They did again at one hundred party today at I killed it again because a lot of the same. So there you go over lining. The knowledge from the day before to apply this hundred day parties Athle- that I have a friend of the drive over that was talking about how she was do a gender reveal party I. Definitely was like a pleased Haute you. Choose like, Oh, it'll like I need to learn to hold my toggle little because people don't all this way. So yeah, I. Yeah. After I read listen to our episode last week. Yeah, I felt a little bit bad because I think people have the right to do whatever they want and they can celebrate whatever they want but it is my choice to not go. Yes and so it's not so much about the actions of people having these parties is just that. My Choice is to not to partake the problem is though people get offended by that because that's what drove me to go to this one is because I felt an obligation to go right but. The day. We always say this to never show up to date in a bad mood. So you shouldn't show up to your friends events with like negative feelings to begin with. It's probably more beneficial right to just stay home. No, you see you got to embrace it I mean you do you everyone should do it works for them. So I agree like maybe what negative but I get a lot of people DMBC so that they felt the same sentiment I think a lot of people secretly feel the Same sentiment. Throwing the parties or like why am I doing this? Why is this happening? But that's you know that's the that's what society's been telling us to do. So that's all we do because we celebrate gender reveal parties you something else that came out of last week's. Episode was you know this whole discussion above virginity and you brought up the episode of Sex and the city where they met a bunch of like twenty year old celebrating their virginity we just went on a hike today and there was a family hiking and one of the kids the boy round like eleven twelve was wearing a sweatshirt said virginity rock saw.

00:05:07 - 00:10:12

So many things went through my head. First of all I was like, can I get a picture with you? I really should've asked for a picture with him because like this kid is out with his parents good for family. Yeah. Rocking the Swisher. But also my second question was where you get that like do they sell that urban outfitters? Is it on Amazon. I. Kind of want one and I guess the last question I have is is that a cool thing now like for kids to celebrate your virginity I, have I have a coworker that's probably she actually doesn't work with me anymore but she used to and she was in her very early twenties. We were doing a video call was over covid and she pulled up like a pen or something. It said something about like Virgin- hawks or some it didn't save for Judy rocks the exact word but it was basically like affirming virginity and like someone was like wait what is your? Go poor girl. Is Bread I don't know maybe it's a trendy. We'll have to talk to Jen agencies or you know there's always gonna be people with different values. You know you may love a baby shower you may love gender reveal. You may save yourself for marriage like it's up to you. But none of that has ever been a t shirt saying like even during the hookup culture when hookup culture was at its peak nobody was like rocking shirt that said, I, suck lots of do. was just shocking to me that someone would put this on shirts celebrating their sexual choices. You're haunch our line of Merch, we are going to have. Masks so people have their opportunity. Yeah. It could mean many different things. Maybe. We should have some virginity. Sakes. Maybe that's the new line of March that we haven't thought of CAV. Virginity is the new black or something like that. Cool. Born again is though I feel like you're probably hyper because we just did the episode like I feel like that always tends to happen. It's like when you are looking for signs of something, you start to see it for sure but also I would say lots of people noticed especially. Watcher it's aggressive. That's like more like a pen for sure and it wasn't like a small embroidered to liner. It was front and center covering his entire chest. In Bright Yellow Virginity rocks I I don't know maybe as high school mascot. We're the San Mateo, virgins or something? I, don't know. Word the Virgin. Hey there's like the trojans. How is it that different? Yeah. Maybe it's the same thing. It was actually like USC colors you know like a school. Trojan. Changed. They're like, no, we got together for now. For. The trojans were the for the virgins where the TROJANS. born-again school now. Born, again, Virgin I will say though I got a lot of other people that did reach out about my date that I shared last week in your nice and everyone was like, nope, don't do it. Don't do. They were like I agree with you on that one. So I think there's something about this eighty twenty role with virtual I like it I'm gonNA keep it I like it too. But what's the latest with that has anything else happened you know nothing I haven't heard from him. I think though I also kind of just stopped replying to stop. So it Kinda faded I'm guilty of the slow fade but I get some other weird data behavior this week that I'll throw out to you. Yes, please. One of them with someone new bumble I just like because you know the woman messages I. So I hit him up and I was like, Oh, how's your day going or something and he writes back immediately you look tall I'm only five seven and I'm like Oh okay like. I, get like people have insecurities like I've insecurities about things to I'm not judging it but to put that out like immediately was crazy. We'll I'm only five? And then he's like, okay, we can talk that and I'm like, okay you've lost re at this point. Yeah. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to your insecurities, but you don't need a lead with your insecurities lead with something great about yourself. We're just answer the fucking question. How does your day like I? Didn't ask you about your height. Okay. So This is where we have to take a moment and talk to all the men out there who are insecure about their height and I get. You've all written to us. We heard it for years that statistically it's shown that men who are five ten get more matches on these dating. APPS etc. Women always have like a height preference in height minimum. Yes. These are true. But what people report and put as their preferences don't necessarily reflect reality I have lots of male friends who are under five six who have girlfriends who are taller than them or same height, and their height was never a hindrance for them when they were dating but it is a hindrance when you put it at the forefront of your messages when you lead with that.

00:10:12 - 00:15:04

It already shows that you have this insecurity that you're trying to focus on. It's not a sexy thing. No and I mean, okay I'll play devil's advocate and let's say this was really important to you that I wasn't taller that you. You can work it into the conversation leader. Don't put that as like the first message back when someone asks you how your day was. Just. So bad don't you don't you have that on your profile your height I do I do. But you know everyone lies about their. Guys always shave off like I had a friend that went on a date and was like, oh, he was shorter than he said I'm like are you surprised by this? This is Automatically, assume there's a chance that a guy is going to be at least one to two inches shorter than they say like I'm already during that in. Yes. I will say this again, men can bitch all they want about women wanting all men and women will never stop talking about wanting tall men. It's just a fact. Okay. Women are always going to be like, Oh, I like. them all tall like the multiple. Let's look in reality. It does not always reflect what people say, Oh, we see people at the same high all the time getting together. That's what's really happening. So stop focusing on what's happening on the APPS because that's not a reflection of what could happen for you in reality and also baby the deal breaker is at your hike because that wasn't. For me, I would have totally been okay with it was the fact that you lead with that immediately in like you weren't GonNa talk to me of I was taller like the absolutely. So that was weird dating behavior. That's weird that you don't want to lead with that. Then the second one I encountered was I brought this up, had a phone call the week before and then we were to. Like a foot fetish day I don't know I thought you were going to like what? What coming out. Like here. We like to. View of how this is going to be. But Yeah I? Had the guy did the phone call with last week we had a videotape plant and we talked about on Monday and I was like, Oh, I could do Monday or Wednesday and he's like, let's do tonight. Great. This was that like eleven ten eleven in the morning. Okay. So I'm getting ready for the date. We're talk we're supposed to talk at eight o'clock pm he messages me at seven, forty five and was like, Hey, you seem really great but I actually just decided to move four like. Seriously with someone else which you know baby he is maybe he's not that's good for you again, like we only taught one time on the phone I've never even seen what you look like. So not that attached, but don't tell me at seven, forty, five like thank God I actually like didn't get ready because you and I had recorded earlier that day already just like did my hair for that but what if I was like spending all this time getting ready then you just drop that it'd be so annoyed but listen. When you told me about this, when this happened to you, my first thought was what happened in the course of that day on this podcast, we always want to get to the bottom of like why people do the things they do I wonder if he was trying to line up, he had like one person that was the front runner waiting for her to text him back and the minute she did text him back he's like okay yes. This I'm going to go with her. Nobody else. There's something again, very insecure about that move to I don't know I mean I get in covert era people are like defining relationships and being exclusive a lot faster especially like let's say she's like maybe they have a datelined up and she's like I'm down to hook up rely kiss you but I need to know you're not dating anyone else. So maybe there was some conversation that pushed around. Or maybe he just decided for whatever reason that we weren't the right fit and he made the whole thing up because I've certainly said stuff like that before. So the truth is you'll never know and it's probably not worth even thinking about why? Like it just wasn't the right fit in to be honest I was skeptical for some location reasons before anyways. So Mon silently a probably just worked itself. Out The way, it was supposed to I'm just more adored at the the timing. Blake isn't going to me. Yes. Fifteen minutes before come on. Yes. Just not cool. That's kind of disrespect. So I admit myself I feel like virtual death have made me a little flakier because they're just so easy to cancel 'cause you're not going anywhere. You know the other person isn't going anywhere but I do. Think this is a reminder that people still have cleared their scheduled to some degree. They still have maybe taken some time to freshen up in, look their on the video date. So I will be more conscious for myself moving forward. So I guess that's what I learned from this situation. Lucky you Julie Craft Chick looking in were not blaming other people.

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You're like looking my own actions that will make. So delightful. So, dateable right now, speaking so damn dateable any other dating updates before we get to our would you rather now my only other day update is that I finally cut by freaky hair which feel like a new person. So anyway, that's our plug for youtube anyone that's checking us out on. Youtube seriously I always the first but says like dating really comes from within but there is a side that you duty to look like the best you. Can Be, right like never going to say to like look a certain way but I will admit after I got the haircut bike I, feel a lot more confident to go on videotapes right now only you want to feel good about yourself it could be as simple as a haircut where even like putting on Mascara for myself sometimes yup. So I did haircut eyebrow wax I was on a roll this week day we just went down inventing. Yeah. I know I just message my lash girl Mike are you open because I'm really missing my Life feel like all these people are getting these types of messages like this so much but it's almost like a drug deal because she's like I can only operate in hotel room. Can only pay me. On on. The. Street and she's going to be decided eyelash. Beeper. We're number I am desperate what I do to get to our would you rather from last? It's a funny funny question especially after dating someone pretty seriously for a few months who you like would you rather find out that they been fired five times from five different jobs or they've been married five times to. Different People Julie wooded you pick I, mean I have to go with the five firings just because I'm just thinking about it logically, the amount of jobs one has in their lifetime like you can have a lot of jobs we're getting married five times feels like that's like a lot of your life essentially, I would assume they were like quick turnarounds in while I don't ever want to judge anyone for their relationship pass because I do think there's always a bigger story. We never know the full picture it would just make me gun shy entering into A. Relationship I think if someone had done that, but maybe I would opt to be like just hear them out a little of y like what happened like maybe there was some valid reason or something that you just never know someone situation like maybe there was a situation that it wasn't their fault ended or ended because we did they have to get divorced or could they have been widowed? They don't know. So you don't know right you just don't know so but I don't know I'm still gonNA. Go at the jobs I would prefer that. What would you do? Yeah I think I would have to agree with you simply because after a few months of dating someone you would hope that they would have told you they'd been married five times troy true but but people don't necessarily have to divulge their employment history right right. So if they're they've been hiding the marriage thing from you all this time there is something a little shady they're if feels More relevant to relationships. However, at the same time, if you are building life with someone in, they're getting fired from jobs all the time that's actually pretty important information to know too. I just think the the reasons why they could get fired could vary a lot more dramatically right? It wouldn't come up in conversation as easily. So you're saying it's the misleading part that would bother you more. Apart. Yes. But the other part I mean I always tried to play devil's advocate. Yes. I don't WanNa hear that someone's married five times but you're right they could have been widowed they could have been. Fleeting marriages, it could have been an abusive marriage is just get out. Yeah. Could have been really quick turnarounds also shows that they are not afraid of commitment that's for sure. A positive. It's a positive. Yes. You just don't know. Heat to be judgmental but they're selling that triggers more judgment on that for whatever. Yes it's the five times like Oh man if you're like, let's say you're in your forties and you've been married five times already start when you're thirteen. It is to is likes the tradition is that you get married once and that's it. So even people that have been married twice there is there's a failure complex I'm not saying that they are failure but I know that there's a lot of studies that people feel like a failure because marriage didn't work out. So I think knowing that you're supposed to do this once versus like jobs like very rarely would anyone expect you to the same job for entire life in this day and totally, but I would also say in this day and age, it's really hard to get fired from jobs.

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COMPANIES DON'T WANNA loss out on. It takes a lot allow stairs. off or keep you in a different department. So to be fired five different times, there may be some characteristic problems about you that are also shady. I would be very worried that you can't keep job where there's something just innately wrong about you I didn't think about it that way because I think of like laying off in the same realm, but you're writing fired versus laid off is very different or quitting yourself even if it gets so bad quitting yourself getting fired is very different is they don't WanNa give you. either. As, we'll try everything not to fire exactly. They'll make you quit yourself I. So yeah. Yeah. So that's why it's a close tie but I was still much rather hear that they were fired then married five times. But unless unless I've been married like multiple times, I'd be like cool. What did the people say the listeners? This ad that people harm. People of. The results of this poll were exactly in line with US seventy percent of people said they would rather hear someone was fired five times and only thirty percent said the Mary thing that damned with big MMA? Yeah. Yeah but the same kind of discussion that we having it's like, what do you have to do to be married five different times or what do you have to do to be fired five different times? Super Fascinating discussion. But that's our would you rather yes. Well, speaking of marriages we have a really wonderful couple that we have today we have co fo in Theo is a couple that we talked to in. We've been wanting to talk to an interracial couple for some time and with specially like in light of everything that's happened with George Floyd and black lives matter like in this. Couple, we have a black woman in a white man and we just wanted to you know be have that open candid conversation about just like all the things that come up regarding race when it comes into a relationship and I think what was interesting about this couple specifically, that will get into the didn't have necessarily like that friction you think about like you think. About like the parents don't like them or they're getting like all this like hate speech or whatever, and like there was definitely times where things were said to them. But it was never like as blatant as the stories that tend to make the headlines. But I think why we wanted to talk to them is a couple reasons is in a way it actually makes. It like more real that even when that stuff isn't happening there still so much that goes into interracial relationships and thinking about just like what it really means to merge two cultures and a big part of it too is that they are at the life stage they're looking to bring a baby into this world. So it's no longer just a white man with a black. Wife is I'm going to be having a black baby now, and what is really unique about their story is that they had no problems getting together. No like what you're saying Julie, there was. Getting together there wasn't like a we should. Really. What are what does this mean for families or how Society Buick none of these conversations went into their mind they just simply liked each other and they got together. But the what we're seeing the evolution of their relationship in this marriage in this time in their own lifetime life stage of wanting to have kids and thinking about that next generation just thinking about having kids is bringing all kinds of conversations into their daily lives that they never really had before and we witnessed some of that in real time on this on this episode. So. It's almost like watching a reality TV show because just watch it all unfold there a lovely couple and I can't wait to get to their story before we do that, we also like to introduce other fabulous podcasts that we know of, and here's one this one's called the magic our podcast spelled N. J. for Mercedes and jade who are the two female host of the show. That's so clever. The podcast is all about self healing introspection and becoming a light for others a show dedicated to uncovering lives most coveted truths where they interview world renowned. Guests from all walks of life revealing the specific recipe for becoming a remarkable person. This is what I. Love about this podcast. They include a section every episode where they rela- what they call a magic trick, which is like a life hack of some sort it's simple and it's profound and it helps you basically live a better life. So again, that podcast called the magic, our podcast announcements. Awesome I think just quick ones you know for anyone new definitely check out our facebook group.

00:25:01 - 00:30:01

This is where the magic happens if we're going to tie. Back. So the magic hour, every Thursday night when we do a happy hour. So there's just so much great conversation there. So definitely joined the secret love in the time of Corona by the dateable podcast facebook group, and if you want to keep the conversation going, we're constantly on our instagram, you can diem us you can interact with our both were constantly putting up poles and stories, etc. just random stuff but also like our information, our guests in the episodes. So that's at dateable podcasts on Instagram I. Think the last announcement is definitely share this. With a friend I think if your friend is in an interracial relationship themselves, it's definitely ago to. But also even if you're not like, I, think there's just the more we can keep the conversation going about race in the fact that it does very much show up in dating and relationships, and all the things we were just talking about like pretty much anyone can benefit from this episode. Yes, and let's get to the benefits. Now here's our conversation with cocoa n Theo. Kofu theo sounds like a band get used to be being a fad. Bad, they are married. So I'm going to introduce them before we get into what their band is all about. Kofu is in her mid thirties. She's black first-generation Jiri American originally from the northeast been in northern California for the past eight years and she's married to the. Video, also in his mid thirty. S He's white. He's also originally from the northeast in in northern California for ten years. So this is the first time. We've really like given the introduction with people's ethnicities because this discussion is about interracial relationships and marriages. So how long have you been married for? We've been married for two years. Now we've been together for what is eighteen years did you really want to rush into things? Because it was my fault. When we were in college, he's all graduating now and you know my dad has asked me about marriage. I have to be meet for a week and then he took that to heart for how many? Ten more. Actually very patient. Let's go back to college. Then you met in college. How did this? Happen but we were friends like I was not interested him like. that. He lived did in my dorm room building dorm building now. He's like. I wasn't that much of a stalker. We. So what move? From friendship no romantic interest to clearly you're married now that what was it like Memorial Day weekend or Labor Day weekend or something and I went home with him because I didn't have anything to do everyone else was going somewhere and I was like come with you when we were just friends at that point and we went muddying with his friends or just like wow. This guy like these pretty cool guy. You know I got like scenes personality more seeing him in his element but then freshman year nothing I mean nothing happened we continue to be friends then I think the beginning of our sauce more year he was trying to date as girl from back home when I was trying to coach him on how he get with. and. She was not not grow wasn't having it but like in that process I'm like, wow, I really do like him. So back then it was A. Messenger. And I was like I got to tell high feel and I'm going to send it in an instant message and I did that and he never responded claims to if you want to claim differently today you can. But he claims that he never got it I just don't remember. So many instant messages that I had half of our audience having major flashbacks to the other half has no idea what we're talking. A little bubbles like I message though no little bubbles he could see if anybody talk it was just dead silence for a while it was heartbreaking and kofoed did you pour your heart out in? Is a long message was. Never know you really how you really feel about someone until you get to know them and I really figured out through this process that like I really like you and nothing. But as you learn I, could read it and thought it was going to reply and just completely forgot which he does do that a lot. He's like I recline what to a message where someone's pouring their heart out to you. You forget to reply yet him. Thank you. So what did that like? How did this actually progress? How did progress? Okay.

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So here here we go. I'm all sad and I'm like he doesn't like to all of our mutual friends like somebody must've liked talked to him at some point we were at a party and he came up to music co can I talk to you and I was like, what do you want because at? This point I'm over it. I don't want to hear anything like I've just kind of accepted that it's not going to happen and he's like will you be my girlfriend and I booked it straight out of the room went to a friend's dorm room that was like two floors up and I was like, don't tell him here. He just asked me to be his girlfriend. He calls her knowing full well, where I would 'cause we were like best friends of that time and she tells him I am he comes up, we have talk like that. It was it was it was over from there. Did I, hear this correctly, you are running away from the man. To be his girlfriend. Got It. Okay. I thought that was the. House terrified. Survival instincts. More. Probably, good. Theo you haven't said much about the suit. The pursuit of cocoa. How did you decide to ask her to be your girlfriend and he could Well I mean I. Guess it sort of a similar story it was through our friendship. She helped me talk me through all these things and I realize like she's clearly way better. But women than any of these other people I'm talking to other people one girl and it twisted. Fair do you remember like there was specific trip I went home and hung out with that same girl who thought liked basically, it was just like, what am I doing? This is stupid and then after that, that's sort of when I changed my mind. So did race play in at all were there any points that you were like this is either going to work or not work? And a week later Should ask that. Later, a week later, I was like I got thinking about it like I don't know how this is GonNa work because clearly if somebody asks you to be your girlfriend that means that you're going to get married. So I'm like, how does this work you know I'm like that's that was my next step and I was thinking forward you know and so. I called him over to the to my dorm room. I made him dinner and I told him that we weren't going to get married. So he didn't see how this was going to work because in my eyes like I didn't bring up race with him but that's what I was alluding to that. You know it was just going to be difficult like what? I just didn't see it working and he didn't leave like he just stayed there. Watch watch television and it just continued like I tried to end it. Because of that, and he just stayed there pretty much. House. Sort of dumb young kid I didn't think any different just like whatever reconfigure it out how hard could it be right? Yeah. Also to be fair what college student is thinking we date now we're going to get married. Me You know if you if you're doing something gotTa be worth that there's you know there's an endgame I would be a little bit close to that to suppose. We're we're both unique in that way we were like, okay. You know you're in the relationship. So had either of you dated interracially before I mean it's not really a boyfriend. I had a guy that I thought was cute like right before college but that wasn't really dating. He happened to be white but that was just all those available to me. That's romancing. Air. Yes suppose that's fairly accurate than I was I was pretty just like pretty using just whatever day whoever like We're at grew up yet no. That wasn't really. It wasn't really a lot of adversity. So so were there any challenges you face in the initial stages of your relationship other than the normal relationship challenges anybody would face I'd say, I mean we go to parties we'd go out in public and you get comments here and there, and obviously I'd be more inclined to notice them what Kinda comments. Just like you know nasty name calling. And were plenty of times mostly directed towards towards me. Anytime he noticed like really wanted him to notice specially if we were at a bar because that he to start a fight. Like no, what's not you know we're not doing that. Yeah I think you got yeah. You got kicked out of one bar because the bartender called me some he called me I can't even remember what it was but he called me some slur and yeah, your face Oh. Yes. To my face and this guy popped off we got kicked out 'cause he just kept going after Monaco course the bartender didn't admit to doing anything wrong. So but these are common Strelka towards you towards me not. Your relationship or your US couple. It'd be comments towards me or towards like or what are you doing with that one or like things like that and have you experienced any sort of push back from the black community you know for as many comments as I got about me being the N.

00:35:09 - 00:40:02

Word or me being this or why you with this I get comments. From black community saying Oh, you could find a black brother or you find a black man it's like I remember serious because that's more directed towards you too. That's true. How do you respond to those or do you even bother responding I mean it just be like dirty? Are you kidding me in just keep walking I walk like where were you when I was single? You didn't come from me then so I don't WanNa, hear anything about you and it's found a decent human being and that's when with it's really none of your business other than that. You know I shouldn't have to explain that to Rondos does on the street you know what? About your family cocoa, the thought of a of. A man in my life was I think for them like needed focus on school. So that was their first reaction. I, think my brother was the first to meet my brother. Loved him on my brother like they. You got kicked off right away. We found out later at our wedding. My Dad, you know had the speech. You know my parents are from Nigeria but they watched all these American movies and he'd watched Movie Blue Lagoon. Thought that Theo looked like the main character from the Blue Lagoon. So at the wedding, he admitted that when he when they would come to drop off groceries at school, Theo would be there to help and my dad guess would say to my mom who's disclu lagoon. Guy. Daughter with her groceries like that was. He's like, who is he like? What is he doing and apparently he waited till like you know the grades came out he's like, okay, can't be bad for grades are still doing pretty good. You know. So that was the extent his care in the world you just want to make sure that I was still doing good in school so. I was always around but I don't know when it was like accepted that we repeating aches after we were dating when I graduated college. Yes You got your degree. So Co fo I know you mentioned like you were a little hesitant at the beginning because you couldn't see this turning into marriage because he was it because you envision yourself being with a black manner like what was it? That was that reason? It's not denied vision myself necessarily with the black man I didn't really vision mice like I didn't see the man that I was going to marry like keep did not have a I did not have a picture a clear picture of who this man would look like for some reason. It felt like we were coming from two completely different worlds because this is quite design. Weird. But he just from a very different place than I than I am from it. Just I don't know I don't know how to explain it, but it just felt like we were from two different planets is all. But before we get to that, we WANNA to take a moment to think are wonderful sponsor better help in these unprecedented times. Some of US may be experiencing president of feelings for me. It's anxiety and working on our mental health with better help has ensured that we're not alone in. This. They offer online counseling with professional credible and compassionate therapists in a safe and private environment. Their counselors specialize in depression relationships, Zayed Trauma, many other areas, and with three thousand US licensed professionals across all fifty states they make it easier than ever to find help in fact so many people have been using better help their recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states in Alfred Only you get ten percent off your first month with a code dateable get started today by going to better help dot com slash dateable and join over one million people taking charge of their mental health Julian I included. Again that's better. Help Dot com slash dateable and USA CO DAT AB L. E. for ten percent off your first month. Now back to this episode, and then for you theo wing since you're also on the more serious side of the spectrum when it comes to data and then. Converting that marriage did you also think about the future with Co and were there any challenges that you saw like if you were to get married? I was I was ignorant about it. I didn't care was like whatever kind of forced it dragged her everywhere completely mindlessly wasn't super aware anything I. Think the very first time I met photo was in dorm room and she noticed I had a cousin who is black my cousin obviously white but she married a black guy and she pointed out and I said Yeah means we can get married and so that was like day one for whatever reason i. Said what does that mean? Exactly doesn't mean that someone pave the way in your family? Yeah. I guess, right just kind of like some random statements make that's just like, yes, it's okay I duNno I didn't put obviously not do nothing always do.

00:40:03 - 00:45:05

I don't know that you were saying for that. It was like connect with like Dorky Theo at that time would have put back together. So what got you over it. Then like what made you come around like I know Theo didn't leave your house like. Of that? Order. His persistent. He's stopped by. You know again, we were like best friends before we started dating. So he was still that constant always there if I needed anyone if I needed shoulder, he was just there you. So supportive like I was into all these you know extracurricular things as he was always there to support me. So it was it was his persistence on anything it was your persistence and it. was like, okay well, he's you know he's my friend in in I'm comfortable with him and a good human being so I'll stick with it until the wheels fall off. I. Guess for some reason I stopped and you want married at that point I. Think there was just okay. This is just what's happening in the moment I kind of just let it happen forever forever forever. Yes and that you know I think it's interesting. You bring up like during that time in college we can all reminisce about those years in college where China naive and. Idealistic and you just think the world will be exactly how the world is in Colorado win. Did a hate you The real world was so different than the college world i. don't know maybe seeing like a darker side of society you know is definitely those times when you leave campus and get different looks because on campus, it's like pretty diverse but you campus you got the different looks or when we go visit his hometown in his hometown, my hometown was not diverse at all but that's the hometown I'm used to. So I know that space but then to go to visit his hometown and there being no diversity being scared because it's a it's An environment I don't know know that for me was not a wake up call, but it was a bit. It was something that I had hold onto you know to be cautious just keep my guard up a bit just to protect myself. You know and for you theo, were there any surprises I mean bring bring home a black girlfriend to your hometown. was there any anything happen that surprised you? There were I mean everyone was quite polite. I guess like I mean there was never any controversy there was never any outward. Like. Girlfriend. Such a caring person people usually latch onto soon as they know it right like that's always been my my catch is like I also a situation. She'll. She'll talk both of us as like Brad I often corner usually find something weird to do and she's offs talking with everybody making sure my grandparents are okay. With taking care of open out. So yeah, I. Mean I think the Intros insurance were all pretty yeezy There was not a lot remarkable about him. We hung out with a wide array of my friends. You know I went to public school into private schools at like a pretty wide array of people from different backgrounds I'll be at not diverse but once you might anticipate having more problem than others and when I when I think back. Of. It back. Then I was like well I. I can handle anything that happens it's going to be. It'll be stressed on me like not her, which is probably completely opposite of what it actually was but me back then was like all I don't care. I'M GONNA FORCE IN PEOPLE'S FACES IN I'm going to be the one to stand up for this but I don't think I would would have been nearly as sensitive back then to picking up on. The looks are the side looks or different behaviors I mean I know I wasn't back then compared to now for sure as I feel like I mean as like a white woman also I feel like there is this naievty that has come out with all of black lives matter and everything that it's like you think that you're like an ally but you're not like anti-racist and you're not really hearing where like our black friends and significant others whoever really coming from and seeing and hearing their real struggles like. was there any turning points or anything that lay co Fo- you were like, why aren't you seeing what I'm seeing? Girl I'm. I'm extremely passionate person things I believe in whenever anything would happen and this is pre. You know George Floyd Pre Ahmad things would happen and I'd react you know I talked to Theo about it and I wouldn't get that same passionate response from him for me I'm like okay I guess I'm just being too passionate. You know at times I would just like I'm just doing too much. Cool calm down a little bit. But over time that's like wait a minute. You're not as angry as I am and I'm GonNa need you to be angry as I am because this is this is real stuff that's happening and it's not to me but you people that look like me the people that look like my brother it's the people that look like my father it's people that look like my mother and it could be me right you know. So that's definitely changed. He's. been such a champ like he's really putting in the worked understand and at first I think we'd have these conversations years back and he wasn't getting.

00:45:05 - 00:50:05

He didn't necessarily get where I was coming from entirely I. Mean it took a few years before I realized there's a difference between skin longhaired I had long curly hair growing up and everyone thought it was a stunner in ice to get over by cops all the time. So I thought I knew it was like to be microbial. Interest. A very different mindset when you do it to yourself. You chose chose long hair I chose my roof and I said screw them from being it. I'M GONNA keep doing it not is nothing that can change. It's just it's how regardless of what I do when I go out every day I quoted that a ton because I think it's pretty enlightening you a lot of people in my communities like I'm open and like I've been judged that you're. Not Non the sane again he's been doing a great job of stepping up and learning and trying to you know reach out to his network communities to help them along to you know there are moments where they're things like tone pleasing like again I'm passionate I'm a passionate black women like it's gonNA sound. Like I'm going off but no this like there is something to what I'm saying. So please don't please own like I'm not no I'm not yelling like I'm just passionate. Like in this is how it's going to come up. You know like so those conversations we've had to add where I'm like no no. I'm not going to back down on how I feel. I'm not going to you know whisper how I feel to you like I'm going to communicate the way communicated. I need you to accept it for what it is and try to understand it like it's not about the tone like the content is still there knows hands at works right? I was fully tune to all the things you can read about. Now, is we've gotten example again last week of like making the black person look bad. But make the white person look good. There must have been a justified reason. Your natural intuition as a white person has grown up here that must be the truth in that must be or that somebody's overreacting or like for example, we're talking I'm overreacting and I just need to calm now link that was more you know. I mean to be honest. It's probably been the last four years. The way I described his like when the current president was elected I remember having these conversations about I really don't care about the politics but scares me because this guy doesn't care about human rights and I don't know what that's gonna mean now sort of like the depth of my thinking and at that point felt radical to like follow Shaun King and it's just gotten worse since then it's gotten more and more real and more and more accurate to the point where like I mean my day to days affected at this point right like i. Want to stay white. As White Guilt, right? Like I don't know if that's the right term, but it's just like I feel it all the time. Now especially as a white male, it's it's a real problem like I'm surrounded by people wherever I go. Don't get it and a brings outrage in me. So I have that right now and I get it. Now, if you WANNA fight that this isn't about human rights them, we're GONNA site right? Because you're basically saying my family doesn't deserve safety. There's not much more that gets like home that like I'm sorry you want to choose politics over my family's safety. That's what forget it. You're done like black and white now. Literally. Literally you know the thing is a sense I've dated outside my race many a times also data just within my raise many a times to and what's really been clear to me is that the American dream is systemic racism and being an immigrant in this country being told constantly that if you work hard you can. Thing that is racism because I remember coming to this country of eight years old and remember my classmates we had. It was very diverse. I grew up in East Lansing Michigan very diverse, all different colors all from all walks of life. We all started at the same place third grade at this elementary school called Red Cedar and our parents were all in the same programs at Michigan State and you look at where we are now and absolutely were not at the same level we started at the. Same Level and this is something I've had to not so much explain I don't know if you feel this way co it was like I don't want to explain, but I want you to feel what I felt. It's like, yes. Yes I see the injustice and whenever I remember dating a guy who said Oh you know anybody can play football if you work hard enough, anybody can be really good at it and I'm like, do you not see that that is just not possible his country? So that's What I've learned from dating outside, my race is not the explaining East I just want people to feel it with me one thousand percent and I, think it's tougher when you're in the relationship and you're like, no, you're supposed to love me you know me you know me for meat like I need you like you love me. You Know Me why do I explain? Why why this is making me angry after explain why this is make me. You know so sad like why affects me so much I don't want to have to keep explaining their many explanations.

00:50:06 - 00:55:01

I mean at this point, you know like I'm explained out, you know I'm tired. So I feel like George Floyd the turn of events have definitely been like that like curtain that's been limited for America or some of America say all of America but I guess. The one thing that I'd be curious is about like in a relationship where this doesn't like I think you kind of alluded to it the Oh that this is personal. Now like this is involving me because we're a unit and we're a family like, how have you kind of taken? What's happening in like? How do you guys discuss it like how do you move forward especially like as you're planning your future, we just we just go for its open. Conversations it, and and again I'm passionate human being. So if he says something I'm like you did not mean to say that that way Muir's why here's what you're really saying like you don't understand where you're wrong. Here's where you're wrong. You need to understand that and I need you to understand that the tone of my conversation with him change. Because as I thought about our future children I'm GonNa need you understand for them because I need you to See Danger coming before. It's there. You know when you're watching our children, I'm not gonNA always be there you're going to be ninety to see it in our relationship. There are some there are some cases where you didn't see it. You didn't see the stairs. You didn't see the nasty things that people would do, but you're going to see it when it's innocent children that can't defend themselves. So like my taint, my tone is Kinda like change tour Directed more towards that preparing him for black children. That's been to the general shift for US things you say or if things you dismiss you can't easily dismiss some things. No, it's. It's not that simple. We had open conversation with his parents just to say you're going to have a little bite grandchildren. We're going to need you to put some work into understanding the inequalities injustice. That's like that's happening like we his parents are absolutely awesome and amazing and. Not taking away from that, but it's just to say you need to open your eyes a little more to what's going on just because it's going to affect you specifically it's a little different when it becomes your family. Say One, hundred percent and I think the thing too is like even if it comes your family like. You know you know some families have that one person who's different might be blacker or whatever raised their you know and they think of that person differently like separate from race or from whatever it is. That's our daughter-in-law. They don't think of me as their black daughter-in-law who's part of the black of all black people, right? Like you separate it in. That's where it becomes dangerous because you're not thinking Oh, this could actually be affecting her as well. Like. So I, think it was more opening their eyes to that like no no these issues really affect me I smile and I'm pleasant with you and I don't pour my heart out about all the injustices that have happened to me but they've happened trust call them. Yeah. things mean it's it's classically trained in day at least my family and many other white families I know just avoid conflict but you're you don't look to resolve the conversation looked to end it and move on. Shift on come in my family does that like very frequently and I do it I use humor I do all that too, and so it's like. Pushing everybody including like my parents and siblings to have the conversations like actually keep talking about it. Keep understanding. Don't like ooh. y'All let's Kinda hurts like. Move On. I mean because it wasn't right away when we told my parents said that the dot. His mom has like overdosed on all books. You can possibly have she signed it for anti racists course online. She posted it for all of her friends to join her. You know as as she's doing this course I guess they're doing a book club with her siblings where they then talk about you know how clubs function they talked about the. That's how it works. Just anyone wants now. Driving with their churches example. Yeah. Their church. So the church is examining their religious impacts on race in examining they're also looking at other religions. So they're being more open to all religions and which is actually really cool when you're died mentioned that. Very Progressive Yeah and like do you think they'd be taking this next level if it wasn't for the grandchildren or like do you think they still would have done this anyways Potential Grandchild. No, I WANNA done unless. They wouldn't done unless that's something they might have gone to the protests didn't. They would know to you. Right. I wouldn't know to take that next step in. Love them to death, but they wouldn't they wouldn't as their experience is different. So how would that you know especially from an older generation like you're asking an older generation to retrain everything they know In their pretty progressive, you know but.

00:55:02 - 01:00:01

You said that like the last four years has been really when these conversations have come to light with trump in presidency and all that were you guys having these types of conversations before that to like that progress over the years the conversations before that were me voicing my opinions about something imagine him not not fully understanding and it just kinda getting an me not wanting him to feel uncomfortable. So conversations would kind of get swept under the rug. You know it's like ooh he's uncomfortable like I'll either figure out a different way to say it or I'll just keep it moving. I would wager it's. Like a little bit more disbelief that could be that bad. And that Mrs just all put it in front of your face is just there right like there's just too many damn sacks like it's there it's over and over and over again in like you keep peeling back the layers it's like, how does anyone actually contests any of this? So when the Theoden. Like. was there ever a point that you were like I wish I was with someone that understood like this is a challenge with interracial relationships or never come to your mind that thought really came to my Mo- it didn't come to my mind because I think for me I felt the way I was trying to. Explain him I still felt that way. I think I talked myself out of it in a way. You know or I found other people like I talked to my brother about it. I'm going to talk to somebody who understands like he doesn't get it like he's not gonNA. Get it. That's okay. Like you know is not gonNA understand so I'll just talk my brother. I'll talk my best friend like whatever you know and I kind of moved on but it wasn't like a there was never a moment where I'm like man I really wish I was with a a black person make it better now. The one thought I remember having was, wouldn't it be easier for him to be with a white woman? Well, is this your first time saying that out loud or have you guys discussed this before? That's my first time saying out loud. I haven't really discussed that with him but that sometimes it's just like, wow, there's a lot of baggage here. You know there's there's just a lot like maybe it'd be easier for excuse with the white woman but for me, it's just like I just needed somebody to understand. You know I don't necessarily put it in context of being what the black man and Theo how do you? How do you feel hearing that thought even crossed her mind not surprised and I think that's probably partially what was driving her to try and break it up after a week she would have been thinking about difficulties for me I mean, that's just her she's to. The FETIG for her own good and that's what she would have been thinking. So yeah, I, I'm not surprised. She's not that at all I? mean. There's obviously new things we have to deal with by being in this relationship and yet there's probably some Hunky Dory, other versions that have different problems, but they're not these bandaged probably pretty easy to argue that there simply problems. Behalf that thought crossed your mind is it a relationship would be so much easier if I was with someone who came from a similar background similar experiences. When it comes to race. Thank. You question. Affiliates it's. Comical. It's dumb stuff I never go. Oh, my God by. A white woman be so easy. I've never never thought that the stupid things that have thought or like man if I had like tired snowboarding earlier than like an. Extreme mounts. Like Dome, Sherry. Got So. There's this TV show I. Don't know if you've seen it it's called love in the time of Corona. Have you seen this Hulu? We haven't started it yet. There's a storyline. They must've shot it like ace out because they were like hitting every happened at twenty twenty and the story line between a black couple in the white wants to have another child and the man is very hesitant in it comes out the reason why he's hesitant is that he doesn't want to be bring another black boy into this world inches or even a black girl just given all the police brutality in everything that's happening. Have you guys thought about that? If you had conversations in that realm? Oh Yeah. I there have been many tears I've shed saying that I don't know I, don't want to like I've I've been looking for countries or islands by move to like I don't. Yeah. Mean for for the longest time I thought I would be doing some justice to the world by having mixed children. But yeah, now I'm scared. Now I'm scared I mean I I watch children I'M NOT GONNA have children am I a lot more open to leaving the US yeah mm also, a little bit of a realistic that the grass is just different green everywhere. I. Don't know that it's going to be surfing but I am to the point now where I'm accepting the US was pretty low on a lot of ratings that.

01:00:01 - 01:05:03

are important when mom not like I wave my flag or anything, but it's like it's where I'm from. So a little weird for both from I mean, let's say you stay of the US your pl- you said, you don't want to put your life plans on hold to have a baby like what would you do to prepare for the potential racism? This child could see in their life's. I mean, I started off by examining every aspect of my childhood that I wish you could have been better terms like representation and I'm going to double up basically all the books. We'll be about black children. You know they will see themselves in everything in our home. Obviously be great to reflect that than in communities that we build. So that's another thing trying to build that community where there's that diversity as not. That's not always possible like where we live right now is not the most diverse place. So you know that's going to be a task to figure that out we're definitely putting in that work to to do it. Every black person will tell you. They have that conversation with their children. You know about how you're supposed to act what you're supposed to. You know like how you're supposed to conduct yourself. Now obviously, those conversations already locks in my brain to have with them, but it's just going to enforce how not to my parents didn't do this but just to reinforce how amazing they are in how You know their color is just an enhancement of their beauty. It's not a detriment. They're going to be people that try to get you down there. Going to be people that make fun of your hair texture that makes fun of the fact that you have two different types of they're they're going to be those people. That's okay. Beep come home and tell me come home and tell your. Dad Be able to talk about that with ask 'cause I think that was one thing growing up my brother and I didn't do. We had all that stuff happened to us in school and out there in the public and we never really came home to tell our parents about it. We just internalized it in I. Know How that has translated to me. You know being an adult it's. Not Great you know I'm just dealing with this stuff now and so I want my kids to have that space to be able to just come to us right away when these things happen. So we'll deal with it in the moment you know yeah, I mean classic white person for a while we talked about education a lot like as if that's the you know the silver bullet to. I mean, obviously, it's a huge huge part of it. I. Think it's a little more than I used to think that was always a thing this need education, and so you focus on getting getting your case good education then it'll be fine but I mean they were education how is has to be good but let no, I'm well. Okay. So now you're witnessing something because for me, it's always been a little black kid has no choice to educated Mike My. Child like I've always been like they're going to have the best education they're going to go to the best schools in that is because they can't they're not the privileged to not to not do that. Your my point is that like focusing on education to me was like something that I thought was enough is not enough is by far not enough went out. So you focusing on what's the combination? What's the immersing amendment cultures like teaching them properly making sure Maybe Paul in education but are you saying education as it is like going to just learning in school in schools as they are? Oh okay. Okay. So like yeah, we've talked about that. Okay. I would say it's made me think about money more about having kids is a little bit of like, okay. I want to be build wealth a little bit more as a higher priority so that I always have a safety net for my kids don't WanNa make it easy. Per. Se, but like I want out of safety I don't want ever have my kids have to worry about because I know the world's not going to be fair to them but also your to your point though co fo is that for an underprivileged race to get ahead in this country education is the baseline. There is no choice there you have to conduct in education and for anybody I mean I've had conversations with friends who are like college is Optional College. I'm like four. For a lot of minorities and for a lot of immigrants that is the only option to. Enter this workforce and This is a lot to think about. I. Mean it's not just about interracial marriage at this point about marriage. In how to work? Yeah. Yeah and and then the interracial part is added layer of complexity to all of that, and this is something that I've I've been like trying to feel it out for a long time is you know sometimes for a while like interracial dating was trendy was cool. Cool. Mixed babies because they're. Diversify your. Goodness, but I do think what this year has shed light on that interracial dating is absolutely more complex than. Dating I don't think we need to hide that fact anymore. And when we enter into interracial relationships, we are taking on the plight of your partner as well.

01:05:03 - 01:10:00

Right. He comes unit becomes your struggle, and then when you frame it in a way of offspring's, that's hope brings a whole other. That's not just are fighting. This is like. Our village, what we're? Together. Well, because Theo you're now like having a black child in this world, right? Like that's like something I mean like I know that you are obviously like you as our family now, but it is taking it a step further. BIG STEP FOR ITS I. Could take care of herself pretty well, but children can't. It's like a very different thing. not that I should allow kofoed always take care of herself though. She Rolls Rights. But. Yes. This is where peeling back the layers of what used to be like. So Trendy and cool it's called. You Race I've also had guys tell me. I can date you I won't marry you. To you're like Oh, it's fun to date someone. But you don't see like a permanent future with me. You know like I think this is where we are in our society. Today's the people before they entered into these relationships there. There's a lot to think about and you brought up a good point about having you know how it used to be training to have mixed mixed children because then they're beautiful whatever if I had a dollar for every time, someone told me there are child you. So beautiful I'm like, Damn that's a lot of pressure I. Hope this child does. It's. I. Never. My first response to any couple but like to a white couple, I've never liked canoes your maybe. So beautiful. Shorts out. I mean, how mine? Long before the baby's been born I'm like I. Don't I. I've never. I. or You guys have beautiful beings I can't wait till you're leading. You both there's so many layers that were like actively. Even right now. I mean we've also heard extreme stories I mean part of why we wanted to bring you on though is because like a lot of people wonder like Oh is there challenges with family members in like relatively you had a very accepting world in that regard. So there are some stories we've heard there was one that was posted to our facebook group recently about an Asian man in black woman they were. Basically like outed by their friends and family and it was like really bad like what advice would you guys give to anyone that's going through something that might even be more of a struggle in terms of not full acceptance guy I, mean, honestly right now, I wouldn't have said it at some point not that long ago but cut him off cut who will it sounds like people aren't open to it. Should the ones off like that's how that's how important it is. Right. If this is the person you choose to be with, you need to make it clear to everybody else about their that important and you're willing right I mean I have family members that. I've gone to battle with and then they wanted to just say, oh, a different lens or something, and I said, no, we're not gonNA keep talking and that's on the his he's referring to a family member that's on the forever trumper like. Things to where he's had to explain I'm GonNa, need you to understand that there are things that affect that. Let this is doing that are unacceptable. I agree with that I would say though that you know there are some families where it's diff- harder to just cut people off like that. You know. So it's not like it's not so easy to just say deuces I'm out. It's more difficult and I think in that instance, you have to really reflect on your relationship and and really try to understand if if you are in for the long haul because cutting off a family member in that type of family means a whole different it's not ignored. That's something that will affect you emotionally for a long time like it isn't easy for some people especially like. Especially Direction we met directly observe couple moved here but the direct family members that that's the that's the point like how do you deal with that and I think that it's really look within yourselves in? Can you make it without that support because if you continue to do what you're doing I mean either they come on board or they don't understand that that's again another. Battle you'RE GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA have to fight you know holidays aren't going to be the same or you might not have holidays in that's GonNa define your relationship. If that's the case, the two of you have got to be tight like solid like you've got to be there for each other in every aspects you know because I think for us a lot of the times like. The world it felt like and I'M GonNa, ask you that do you feel like it's you against the World Yeah we've said that to each other sometimes like even you know with friends and family whatever. Sometimes it's just felt like us against the world and that's how we been able to get through a lot of tough stuck. You know it's like, wow, I've got you. You've got me here.

01:10:00 - 01:15:01

We go to your point probably should have that deep down conversation with yourself. Before you get to this stage I said, you'd better have that deep bound conversation. Are you going to be able to separate? Case it gets better. But yeah, you might not be talking to a father or mother or something like that. That's a big deal for maybe it's GonNa Affect you emotionally it's GonNa Affect, your relationship Berry directly like you might start to resent the other person for that. And you WanNa make sure you are having those conversations and being open about it not just letting it go. You have to confront it don't just ignore it and just figure. Oh, we're like a million miles away so we don't have to ever see them or talk to them. No, like you got to confront it. You know like we've talked so much about it. I love this like me against the world like me and you against the world like, is there any other benefits that you really feel like being an interracial couple has helped you both develop personally also strengthen your own bond I mean I'm perfect. So He needs. Judge. I can say by leaps and bounds ahead far more perspective than I ever would have if I had not an interracial relationship for so long by the way like it wasn't like day one or year five or year Tan, it was a while sure if I thought about a little longer, it helps the probably all parts of lights. Realizing how many different perspectives there are and how you need to look at things differently than you need to assess what's really going on? To a deeper level I mean how much good food exist in the world? As She I. She would say food flavor. It's true. I didn't really like spicy food before I had Nigerian and now he cooks he makes. Wicked that. That's incredible. Bond you on Cook your food. What about you co Phil I would say that I've become. More patient and trying to explain things to him in more willing and open to explaining things to him or tune to another person period because for a time, it was just like. Hold it all in internalize it. It's like just deal with it on your own keep it like just keep moving forward being in this relationship with Theo has caused me to communicate those things like the emotions that are going through me like more openly just to just to get them out there like I don't have to suffer and deed sadder angry on all on my own and complete that cycle by myself i. Have Him and obviously it's not just that's not because he's white necessarily but obviously, the whiteness amplifies it some just because like again, we're constantly haven't had the conversations daily but yeah, I would say it's it's it's made me more open in patient and communicating my emotions about race and inequality. Well. Sometimes when you date someone who's to similar to you, you have the same internalized problems and issues where. The common denominator cancels each other our you don't address them. Being with someone who comes from a totally different background, it's almost like therapy for you too because you have. Like take a step forward in Oh why do I feel that way and look at your childhood take a step back it is part therapy in his car trauma, right? Yeah. This having to relive all of that stuff and but that's okay because again, that's the that's where the therapy par kicks in. You know I have to get it out and a half to grow from it and learn from it and figure out how I want to make sure our our children don't experience that same thing you know. This is a good way to talk about takeaways to 'cause. I feel like this is definitely generating some ideas for me of what I'm I'm taking away from this conversation. So here's a trend we've been seeing this year is that there a lot of people are opening up their preferences on their dating APPs due to the nature of what's been happening this year so I think everyone's kind of exploring outside the race exploring outside of their usual type, which is great but we're also getting a lot of these into this category of not knowing how to enter into interracial. Relationships and I guess the takeaway I would have for anybody who is entering into these relationships is to know that it is not going to be easy I mean I think that's we can't sugar coat it. It's not going to be easy there levels of complexity also, you have to get your arm already 'cause there may be some battles in you have to get ready to fight, but it's so worth it in the end I the feeling of us against the world it's actually a very incredible empowering feeling to know that you and your partner can take a home this world. Sight of what's been happening.

01:15:01 - 01:20:00

So I think that's a huge takeaway for anybody who's new to dating outside their race. The other takeaway I have is it like a really affected me when you were talking about your offspring's in your kids and how you would raise them I think that's a conversation. People can have on deeds these days not about their kids together but to say. In light of what's happening in today's society how would you raise your kid today? Yeah, and how would you navigate what's happening I think that that would be an incredible conversation how? Even. If you're not an interracial relationship, you should be having that conversation. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that and the thing about that too is like not only how you raise your kids but how your friend raising their kids because those kids your kids are going to hang out with you know we've had that conversation we're like, okay. Cool. So this one's going to be a little you know what we're gonNA. Move. Right right I never even thought about that. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Yes. I think the biggest takeaway I have is for. So long we're supposed to say like Oh, we're all the same. We're not right. You know I think what's really come to light with all black lives matter but also this conversation is like, no, we have to really accept that we are different. We have to see color, and if we're not seeing that, then it doesn't allow us to really have these deep conversations that. lets the other person be seen heard like your conversation actually reminded me a lot of a conversation I had with one of my best friends and one of you as friends and she put up a video on Instagram I'm around the Times of George. Floyd just being like I don't blame my white friends and my Asian friends and all my non black friends I haven't let you see me for who I really am. I've been holding that back. So I'm not blaming you and it kind of reminded me of your conversation it's like for so long it's easy to be like when my overreacting or you don't get it or you know like I I'm sure I don't know what I've said along the way but I'm sure I've said something that was like brushing feelings under the. Rug Little and like I think it's so important that we put that open and you know like the Party let's the denby fully seen in the receiving end also really doesn't try to doesn't try to empathize just let's them. Me Heard. I think. So often we try to find solutions to problems and sometimes people don't want a solution they just want to be her. One hundred percent one hundred is a and it's hard. In our networks and friends and groups like I am the one I'm usually the one lack Ersan. So it's difficult being a one right you know and it's difficult than given everything that's happened I've been more vocal with more people it publicly about how I feel and how this stuff affects the things that have happened to me that people like, wow, I didn't I didn't know that happens to me. What do you think I'm going to sit here and have. A million conversations about how kids take on me take our meat for my hair pick army like that's not how you said it up. You didn't set it up for me that way you know and that's not your fault but last year. Right. I. Think the other takeaway I have is throughout this whole thing you both just looked at each other as another person as a person that you fell in love with it wasn't so much about race especially when you're in college and you kind of. You're not even thinking about any of this stuff in I think the one of the things we've heard from past episodes that we've done of people that are like struggling more in the dating scene is when they get fetish or they get like comments about their race and I think everyone has unanimously said is I just want to be treated as a individual. Be So fixated on my race even if it's supposedly positive, right. So one takeaway that I have from this whole Combo is like you guys really you know you just love each other for who you are not necessarily the race part one, hundred, I mean for me one hundred percent because if it was a race car out on the there within the last, it will cope. I. Holding you. You're like, Oh, you're getting a little hand. Working. Pollution. That's not a difference range like I put Los Every day. I. Have to pull those I can be dry. Okay. That's the thing. This man is age like a raisin. Lotina. Why doesn't understand that like there's a process. With being a black woman. Hair. Let me put on a wig why do you have to put out a wig? It's a protective style. I'm GonNa need you to stop asking me questions. Just, a brace with it.

01:20:02 - 01:24:04

End Product Okay Magic. I need you to give me a compliment and I ask questions about why? We do have one last question. We asked all of our guest. Since you are on the table podcast, what is being dateable mean to you I think being dateable for me is the same as being a good friend as being a good family members being good community member is being a decent human being for love love is good. You know it's not everybody throws round ally in all this I can't stand the word ally. Tell you that much because what does that mean? What is that? That gives you a badge for something you should be doing anyway. Right. It gives you a gold star for being a decent human being I don't do gold stars just be a decent human being that's that's it for me. Just be decent. Yeah. Joint I M's. Face. Circle. I remember I you. Lose a noisy would make. You can't remember a little bird. And Theo? dateable mean to you. Thought about that but who in hoping? Think it for me. It just starts with a conversation like you have I would have to be someone who transparent any no you talk term and you can trust what they're saying and go from there. Really. That's that's the start of it. If you if you can't show like at ease in having a natural conversation and honest with each other for me I err on the side of transparent and honest I think. But like there's no reason beat around the bush and play games like let's just. Say Shannon see from areas, we get deep conference to be having about race. increasing. Fabulous. There it. Is Marriage. Swear. kofoed. Thank you so much for telling us your story and sharing your experience that ask and scored things for letting us watch things as it happened I felt like I was watching a show at some point I forgot we were on. TV shows really good. What's going to happen next like real time working it out I. Love It. Yeah. What would you say? Really for the next episode before all of our listeners. Who really enjoyed this conversation? We very much appreciate a five Star Review Apple podcasts because it helps us bring more guess just like the O and Choe photo to tell us that they are stories and not be afraid to share them because now they were legit people. So. Thank you again for sharing your story. Thank you all for listening at home, and we're still looking for gas for the season. So of you like to share your story, you know someone who can share their story. Maybe there's like maybe you have experienced a very tumultuous interracial relationship we love to hear that too. So come share your experience on the dateable podcast we're going to wrap this update. Oh. The dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network find more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media, slash podcasts want to continue the conversation I, follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcast tag as an any post with a Hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts. Then head over to our website dateable podcasts, dot com there you'll find all. The episodes, articles, videos, and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect, analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums for also downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast, Google, play overcast stitcher radio, and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.