S11E120: Can you have it all? w/ May Lee

00:00:01 - 00:05:04

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating where we dig into the why why why's of people's behavior and this is our season finale. Not only in the season finale for season eleven is also our last season of twenty twenty. Twenty two has finally come to that or it's about to come to it like get the fuck outta here. Twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. I feel like there's literally not yours plants this year because we can't have any but also ones like fuck this year but i guess that would be maybe grounds to celebrate the new one but also we don't know what's around the corner out january. I probably change saying the same thing. He's like twenty twenty one exact same shed. We're just used to it now. It's not a surprise anymore. There's hope on the horizon. I feel like yes the flex of twenty twenty one a dating profiles. It's the vaccine or not exactly exactly the new. The news of twenty twenty one is vaccine. And i think that's gonna change quite a bit of our lives for that year. So yes we're still looking forward to the new year but we're very much looking forward to this episode because it is our season finale. It's our yearly finale. It's such a groundbreaking episode because we've been this conversation forever. it's it's all about. Can you have it all. can you have it all. Do you have to sacrifice a part of your life for another aspect of your life. Like for example. Can you have a very successful career but you kinda suffer on a personal note or can you have a really successful relationship a suffer may be professionally so this is kind of like the question. We've it's a million dollar question. Can you have it all and our guest for this episode proved that yes you fucking can. She's also us idol slash at a later life. There's nobody like parallels between you to wait are we. Hearing from may may lee is her name. We're hearing for usa right now. Because i'm very confused of this. Weird like time. Warp of the two of you very honored if i were. May you know like a few years into the future may is a world renowned journalists and she's also just a fucking bad ass wings. Amazing loved her. Because you did her podcast. The me leased show. It's all about representing asian americans which is amazing to like was it asian americans in medias that would it's focused on or does asians asian and everywhere. I sat the swatow very you a literally. Got off the phone with may for the interview and you were like. We need to have her on the podcasts. She is amazing. And i think also like we're like a big part of it too is normalizing being single in your fifties. And i think that's something that's been. Ib world without wisdom. I saw this on tiktok the other. Day so julia. I don't even know the such a lurker. I'll take tack tiktok. I don't even do anything. I just lurk there at night. I didn't talk seven looking girl. Hey i was not looking at seventeen year olds. But i actually have no idea who said this so i don't know who to give credit to you but someone was like okay like we have to stop with this like south love for single people like that. You need to fix yourself in order to have a relationship and i was like rock. Yeah like i feel like we are always talking about self love. And i do think people should have self love and i don't think it's exclude exclusive for single people or people in relationships but i do agree with this premise of like you need to love yourself before you can love someone else like to some degree. There's some truth in it but it also. I feel like you need to be doing that if you're in a relationship and you've been in a relationship since college also you. Yes that's a very good point because this whole time the propaganda has been. You have to love yourself to prep yourself too but why does it have to be in preparation of a relationship. Why can't you just love yourself for preparation bobbing yourself by yourself. You know and it doesn't need to be about making yourself better so that you're more dateable. Yeah in the reality is you're going to be single or alone at some point of your life.

00:05:04 - 00:10:01

Even if you're not single per se like my mom. I've been at my parents house for anyone that's new through the holidays and my my dad leaves during the pandemic to go to work and my mom has been by herself. So it's like yeah. She's in a couple. But you're still on your own in some like you're never with someone twenty four seven. You need to have these skills whether you're in a relationship or not. Yes so i guess. End goal is not about getting into a relationship now. Bowl is finding that relationship with yourself where you care and love who you are and then you're able to spread that love with other. Yeah that's like an after fact but this like this is what what this episode was really about because may she is really her career as priority of for many years her she had a booming career. She's traveled the world but not that she's given up relationships. She's also been in a serious of long relationships but her home her whole motto is. I'd rather be alone thriving on my own than be with someone who's dragging me down and not letting me blossom not only meeting me or inspiring me. So this is why. She's in her fifties and single. She has not been married or has had kids. And no fucking regrets. This is like the question we've always had like. Am i gonna regret this in in like twenty years thirty years. Whatever it may be. when. I'm in my fifties and sixties. She's like no. I never predicted this. I did not plan for myself. But i have no regrets because all the decisions i made in my life were my decisions. I had control over right well. That was the whole piece about normalizing being single. That's what made me think of this revelation from tiktok but it was like the reason you're single by not be because they're selling broken with you. It's like the reason could be that you've just prioritized other things that you're right in. I know for a while for myself. I feel like. I didn't really start like really defeating to like like late. Twenties like of course like through college and like early twenties. I had the flames. And i just people that came in and boyfriends and whatnot but it wasn't like an active defeating because there were so much of just getting like my own current order moving to a new city building a life lake. It's not like you can't do it. You just haven't like pushed that way. And that's why our podcast. We have so many listeners. Who are in relationships who are married because dating is not just about being single dating is also about being being comfortable with yourself dating yourself and knowing how to take care of yourself you know i think like you're saying it's we're not gonna be with someone else like four seven all the time and you can't predict the future but you can only predict that you're going to be with yourself like of course this i think the like can you have it. All is the million dollar question but we do also talk in this episode to about like this feeling of the. You're even if you're alone. You're never alone and we actually did a halt. We did a series of holiday. Happy hours as part of the sounding board this week in one of our members caitlyn. She liked posted. That i guess that was like a quote she had to rig the happy hour that with this group. She never feels alone. I was like oh that just brings some other they did that was just so adorable. As apparently wet routed like shared all what everyone loved about each other to like build overall mike recites. This is literally the ever. I don't either. So i love them but never load. I think that's really true. And it's like especially during this pandemic. It has pushed us a lot of us. Like i know lot in the group to move to a new city. Like that's gotta be hard being single but like you. You can find those people and i think with me too. It's like sometimes. I've talked about this. It's like okay right now. Maybe it's okay to be single or you know not like having children or whatever it is but will we regret this in twenty years and i think like hearing her say that. I'm like first of all you just can't predict the future. Like i would never even knowing that i'd be here today on your parents basement. Well i met during the podcast. But yes that i could have predicted because i was here twenty years ago all full circle but i think it's also like a points to there's i. I love being in relationships. Some of my best times and memories have been in a relationship. But i also love being single like i feel like i have the opportunity to focus on different things like i don't if i honestly like if i had children like i do believe you can have like have a thriving career and have kids but i realistically probably wouldn't have the amount of time that i do to put towards this podcast for instance. Unlike you probably wouldn't either. It's just like the reality is like there's always trade-offs with everything and like you know it's not. There's no right or wrong. It's kind of like what is working for.

00:10:01 - 00:15:03

You and things can change at different times to and not being tied to some sort of outcome. It's not the whole. I need to get married. I have kids. I need to have this career where i made. Svp by the time. I'm thirty five. Whatever these are these are sort of things that are not in your control but why is your control is you can say i want a life where i feel fulfilled where i feel motivated inspired a life where i feel like i'm i'm loved and that i can give love to other people i those are things that are tangible and in your control. That's sort of mace philosophy but when is even more wonderful about our conversation with because we we recorded this a few months ago and may recently emailed us with an update. And she's like gas. What is this the craziest thing. Because she wasn't looking for relationships she was kind of like you know if it happens it happens but especially right now right now. I'm very happy. She's got two lovely dog. She's like having a great time and she went on. Okay cupid our conversation. 'cause she was curious and we had talked about how during the pandemic there was more activity with online day and ended a meeting someone and now they're in a serious relationship Where she emailed this to me. This was an october. They have been together for three months. So it's been five months now amazing. Incredible she's been posting photos of them like cooking together and celebrating together. But it's not something she was like. I must have this in my life. But it's it's wonderful that she was able to find somewhat right. We always say like if you're in a good place yourself like you either. Like are happy bright. Even if you don't meet someone or you attract someone at the same energy level because you're in a good place so i'm sure like that was how it worked for her and i think this is base. I mean this is what happens when you come on dateable so guests are going to be lighted up now for the twelfth leash. Our inbox becomes flooded. Tomorrow guys we've become the relationships setters setting up that ball for you. Yes exactly so. I think what's this. This episode is not about like haredi being single like single people empowerment. Because i'm also sick of that message to this is about finding a life creating a life that we're you feel sue filled in at that doesn't need to be tied to these outcomes. Society tells you about it's about what you create for yourself. You know what i'm so sick of. Can i just grab like i hate that. Why do we have to call it single people and people in relationships relationship to even be this divide. I just want to be friends with people. Regardless of their relationship status like people just view be as a person regardless of buying like. Why does this even have to define us in any way. It pisses me off. And i feel like that's what makes things like the way they are because we have these like ways of like you know like segregate aghast essentially. Well that's how the media can sell their tv shows and their movies. That's how these brands can sell bearers services in their products. 'cause there has to be a divide and there has to be a me versus you but i agree. And that's why i love this community. We created with dateable. My friends raya. Who you know said the the other day she because she is now in a relationship with someone who's on our podcast may or may not have the at some future time. Gotta have them back and she said. I didn't know that the facebook group was four people in relationships too. I'm like it's for everyone. Anyone who cares about love is for everyone and she also felt that divide in from the way she was talking about it was like oh i thought it was for single people only no. We don't want to live in a world like that where it's like. Oh it's for these these people only know it's for everyone for every love transcends everybody right and if you i'm like how do i segue to merch. I am weather. It's like well. I was gonna say whether you're in a relationship are dot you know. What am i best. Frat one of our best friends. She bought vaster dating and she has been married for like headier is it has a child so i don't think she's actually been buried for ten years but she's been with her better but she she she does she bought that dateable cop and master dating mug so but i think quarantine for boys regardless if you're taken single whatever i don't want to use these words that he wore but everyone could be court for fox's not loving. My friend bought y y y. He's married but he is like. I just love that sweatshirt. this is why why why because you can take all his zoom meetings and someone asks him a question you'll just show them the swisher he doesn't.

00:15:03 - 00:20:00

I never even thought about that so another reason. We're going because we are finally leaving. Twenty twenty we aren't going to be doing a blowout sale to end some of our merch. That is going to get discontinued. Twenty twenty so. If there's something you've been eyeing bit. This is the time to get it. We will be giving twenty one percent discount as i for twenty twenty one so the discount code is going to be shopped. Twenty one so definitely Make sure you get on it and get that merged before it goes out could be dateable regardless of your relationship status fair you go twenty one percent off. It's a lot. That's quite a lot a lot this on our blog. It's even more than one percent beyond our black friday sale ever. They always sell our other quick out spit. i think just one thing to clarify. Just we have the facebook group love in the time of corona facebook group. That is free and if you we do ask that you give us a little blurb about yourself just because we wanna make sure you're a real person we don't know who's listening all the time and we it's a safe space so we want to make sure that people that are legit in aren't just randoms on the internet coming in so if you have been not approved in this was a mistake it is dot because we don't love you because you deductive formation so comeback fill out that information and you can come in and we also have the sounding board group which is our premium community and. That's where all the magic happens. That's where we have the happy hours. The podcast discussion groups. We also have the audio series available that special audio series just for sounding board members. And there's a discussion group. We just December episode released is about navigating ambiguity. Which honestly could not be coming at a better time and let's be honest. They're still going to be ambiguity coming into you january so the beauty to is even if you join now you get the episodes from november and december will will be automatically delivered to your apple. Podcast feed so. If you're not a member of the sounding board yet you can go to dateable podcasts dot com slash sounding board so definitely want to get on it. We have so many good things for twenty twenty one. Wow has a good to it when he twenty one twenty one and i know that we wanna get to this episode. But it's our last episode of the year so we're gonna talk about longer okay. We're gonna do it because we gotta talk about the. Would you rather question from all round honesty because our episode with jerry freed was about. Why is it so hard to be honest when it comes to dating and relationships and how can we just be more honest with other people and ourselves so the would you rather was if you are dating someone and you're really into them and they decided that they wanted to pursue someone else that they've been saying. Would you rather hear a the truth or would you rather hear them say. I'm just not in a place to date right now and This is the first time where the results on facebook and in our instagram worth. The exact same. Wow everyone was on the same page but right purposely don't look Because i want to make sure that. I've stay unbiased. You know. i think it might depend when it is in the relationship when it is like if i've literally had like one video date from them i don't need that much honesty like if i don't even know them at all but if i've been dating them for a bit and they i would much rather just hear that there is someone else even though that might hurt. I've i've definitely been here before. i here. On the receiving end end up the giving and the receiving end. What like my i. I would say relationships. I'm kind of quoting. It was never like fully officials like you know one of those situations ships but it was like six months. And i was really crazy about this guy like i really liked him. I don't even know if i've ever told you about him. You a he way far was before you and i mike way before your time like this is like right when i moved there with early to the sky we met on match dot com. That's how outdated to this and anyways we had the six months it was like kind of way on his terms type thing and i finally got the courage to like. Put it all out there. It'd be like i really want to date you like i'm really into you. And he basically was like you know like like he's basically like all like i really like you but like i haven't had a relationship since i was like in college. I'm not really looking for a relationship. I'm not a relationship type of guy blah blah blah. So it's like okay.

00:20:00 - 00:25:00

And i still of course had that glimmer of hope in then. What do i see like a month later. A photo with him and a girl at house. The which is like how supply red house subscribe ribs so it's clearly not yeah so anyway dotted. Sf it's like this really like institutional restaurant you don't just go there with a random. It was tender birthday and she like god like it was clearly they were day. Okay this was like a month later. Obviously there is over. Laugh like the whole thing. And i just remember seeing this photo on facebook and like my heart like to sunk seeing that. Because i'm like here's me like still holding out. Hope for this. Do it would have been so much better. If he's just like hey like. I met someone else that i really click with. You know like so anyways. That was harsh shaking. I have also been on the other side where i had a stalker. I don't know if i've ever been shared this with you either. This was also. Why are you telling me all this. All new information i feel like i repressed some of s that i have this guy that just like wouldn't we slept together once in it was like he was just All on i was like not interested. All just was not good other reasons even before sleeping together just wasn't a fit and i made the mistake of not being honest in telling him that i was in a relationship like i met someone else which was not true. I was not in a relationship and he didn't stop bothering me. he was just like well. I'm sure it will end soon. And i'll be here. It was just like constantly like there and it just eventually had to be like. Even if i'm not in a relationship like i don't want to be with lick. It was like it had to be so honest. So i should have just been honest from day one so both of these are very long way of saying i would definitely choose the honesty because it's bit me in the but both times from both directions you know it's So your immaturity. Five percent of people chose honesty and five percent chose the little white lie. My problem with the statement of I'm just not in a place date right now is that it doesn't close to complete in. That's really hurt me in the past wear or someone said that to me or have something along the lines of that and then i just think then it becomes a waiting game for me. I'm like oh so not right now as in today but maybe tomorrow and then i start creating excuses for them like all because they're going through transition at work or because they're doing this to dealing with family but once this whole thing blows over they're going to be ready for relationship with they're really trying to say as i'm not in a place a date you know. It's not about their own timing in even if they aren't like i think i've learned this the hard way too. It's like it doesn't matter what the reason is that the reality is there in like you do have to cut the cord in like if it truly is meant to be you'll find your way back some point being can't be. They're literally having that glimmer of hope. Things are going to change or you just never meet anyone else. I mean i've learned that by the hartaway absolutely and in my experience in all of our interviews with our guests and letting to our facebook group you kind of want to find a way to close the door. Oh yeah. I think i think this is like the cardinal rule of dating closed that damn door if that door is still left a little bit open to low crack. You're always going to hold that it just fully opens for some magical reason and the same thing in the in the reverse is that you always want to close a door with people. You're not interested in either like why. String them along. there's really no need. And karma is a bitch if you if you string someone else along you're going to get strung along. Yeah no it'd be in that situation. I told you that guy that kept hitting me up. Even though i said i was in a relationship when wasn't giving up and it was just bad on both fronts like i should have said it but dido how the other guy finally closed. The door mean this photo of prime rib. This is so fucked up. You're going to die. So i think be an email and was like hey like i have a friend that i wanna say like. Do you guys wanna double date. And i was like okay. We slept together multiple times. Like this is weird. Like who missed out on my soulmate. But they will not too weird for me. I was like no. You're like so ezekiel so all these years later. He's still single tasty deal now. That's like kick you while you're down. I wasn't even over it. And then he's like sends via email my hope he's fact that he's like i have someone to set you up with like a.

00:25:00 - 00:30:09

How can it get even more. That is the worst feeling because afterwards you feel like a fucking fool. Yeah i hate that feeling in when it comes to dating feeling like a fool after the fact you're like how can i see. I saw the signs. Why did i act on it. It just it makes you feel dumb. I hate that feeling. But i think his was coming from joe but we could go into a whole another day. We need to get valey so we'll positive for now. That is like a whole unpack itself. Let's unpack that for the new year. Fresh but yes. Let's take a break right now for a special message from our sponsor better help for the new year. What are some things you like to change in your life to find more happiness. What do you think is preventing you from achieving your goals scored. The simple answer is prioritizing. Your mental health. We dateable julian. I are huge fans therapy and better help to match you with your own licensed therapists and connect you in a safe and private online environment. I was able to start communicating with my therapist and less than forty eight hours. Better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches and it's more affordable than traditional offline counseling or licensed professional specialize in everything from stress new year's resolutions anxiety trauma depression and grief and for the new year. We wished for all of you to live a happier healthier life. That's why as a listener you'll get ten percent off your first month. I visiting our sponsor at better help dot com slash dateable. Join over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help. E. l. p. dot com slash dateable d. a. t. e. a. b. l. e. Okay now let's get to the one and only may lee you know. There's a huge difference between being alone and being lonely and i think a lot of people especially during this time are alone. They're living alone. They're single there by themselves. But that is more of a physical factor as opposed to a mentality. So i think for this up so we. We want to decipher the difference. Between what is a loan and what is being lonely. So may my girl. Crush as i start to blush here it was such it was so fun being on your show talking about dating during this time and at the end of bad end of your show we started talking about your love life and it's just to me it. Just i called julia right away. I was like okay. We need to talk about this with me right now. You're up way too much now. Everybody's going to be like. Oh my god. Smith all the salacious love life. You're not wrong. A little background information on. Who is malian. She lives in long beach originally from ohio. She's fifty four years old currently pretty single taking a dating sabbatical and we want to really dive into the choices. She's made as an independent single woman but before we get to the present mainly let's just go back a little bit. Let's go back to when you were twenty five years old. It was a snapshot of your life especially your love life at twenty five years old. That's actually a good place to start you a. It's almost like a new. How you would have known twenty five. I was already starting my broadcast career as a news journalist. And that time i had coincidentally gone back to my hometown. Dayton ohio to work as a reporter anchor for local news station and life was going okay and i actually was dating somebody pretty seriously at the time and he yeah was twenty five at twenty six. I was then given an opportunity to go overseas for the first time as an international correspondent and that was that came out of the blue and this guy funnily enough you guys this is weird. I literally got a text message from him about twenty minutes ago. He knew we were gonna be doing this on and off. Captain a twist me a little bit you know but again. This is thirty years ago right. Wow what does he want he just wants to keep in touch axes or coming out of the woodwork. Now this is like the time you weigh on my show. That jury of cove ed. I had four excess. Contact me in a spell you weeks of over. Four decades of my thirties forties fifties. It was it was. This guy was from my twenties. And so the reason. I say this is because when i was when i accepted this job to go to japan. He was so desperate to a hold of me somehow. that he had gone out and bought a ring and apparently he was going to propose to me like two nights before i was literally going to get aid and moved to tokyo japan.

00:30:10 - 00:35:02

We're you guys like broken up at this time or you still gonna keep it going. You were going to try to keep it going but you know i mean at my at that stage my life and career. I was kind of already looking ahead saying man what's going to happen. So the last thing. I was thinking about was getting engage right and hiring is sense engagement while he had other ideas and so he had a. He had literally bought a rang. He had the night planned out. And then we got into a huge fight or the night even came. Oh almost as if the burr stepped in and was like nope. Nope don't do it. Don't do it. how did you know he had ring. He told cheerleader he told you immediately. After or few wasn't immediately after it was actually when i arrived in tokyo and he had told me over the phone that that was his plan. Oh my gosh propose to me. Were you guys together at that time or had you broken. We were really was a big fight and it was obviously a lot of tension. Because i was about to move overseas like thousands and thousands of miles away And so i can't even remember what the fight was about. But i know stress related And so we try to keep it going. I mean in the back of my head. I knew it wasn't a work like my life was just getting started. My career was about to take off but we did try to keep it together. Heathen visited me in tokyo. Really like oh yeah. He came and visited. And the guy had never been to asia. You know so So we made a valiant effort. But i knew that it wasn't going to go anywhere and it eventually sold But you know. He said many many many years. Later that he always carried a torch for me obviously. Yeah i mean up twenty minutes ago. I feel yeah like twenty five. Though it is such a pivotal point of your life like really getting off the ground so i totally can see why you weren't like dying to get into marriage right. I wasn't even close to the idea of it. Really emmy julia. At that point. I could see my career starting to develop and i on a trajectory and i was one of women who was very focused on what i wanted in my career. And what sort of sites. I had set Know on myself to kind of achieve in my career and so given this opportunity. I mean can you imagine i was just so. You're focused that. I as a young woman and i know a lot of young people think this now to you kind of put everything else to the side thinking out. Plenty of time. Have plenty of time to get to that. I'm going to focus on this now. And that's that's the choice. I made And how were you guys dating. I think it was probably about two years or so two and half years and did you ever play back like what if he actually did propose. What would you have said. I definitely played a back. I definitely i said no right. Yeah you in. I knew i would have said no. There's no way. I would have said yes we were you twenty five two. Yeah twenty five you know. Was that quarter life crisis. Same thing i quit my corporate career. I was living in manhattan living with my boyfriend and he was. He actually did propose new year's eve and my first reaction was. I like literally just felt sick to my stomach. And i said i'm not ready in the. He tried to propose again the next morning. You love in times square. That could have also been part of it on new year's. Oh yeah like amongst all together. And also i drink myself to death that night to obliterated i couldn't even see hit him. I can see his face. I was so. I was so drunk out of my mind but he all i could see was just like sparkley thing in my face. A catcher. Just just showing. This thing couldn't even like he couldn't even make right now a rave or is this a ring. The next morning was really awkward with his parents call because they knew that he planned to propose so they called to congratulate us. Oh no had to explain to them that that he has to send the ring bass. It's like a bad romcom move. It was. It was not the rom or the calm. But i get what you're saying though it's at twenty five but also i don't know if you felt this way and julia we've talked about this at twenty five. You felt like you've got everything kind of figured out. I was like yeah. I got this. Yeah my career is on this path. That i don't need this. I'm going to get this. Like i felt like i knew what i was going to do with my life.

00:35:02 - 00:40:02

Yeah i mean. I've shared with you you a but like when i was twenty five. I moved from boston to san francisco so again it was a similar quarter life. Big change. I think twenty five. There's something about that that you're not like right out of school starting your career and you've been going a few years. I need something big. Like i need a big change to shake it all up but i know my mindset when it came to relationships like i was not even thinking about it like i literally was establishing a new life for myself i would meet guys and like hook up like go out to bars and stuff but eating. That was not in my repertoire. All no no. No i was. I was always a serial monogamous though so never a big data ever and i was bloomer too Because i sort of grew up your typical asian kid who is sort of restricted in so many ways by my parents that i didn't even get a chance to even try to date when i was younger And then i went away to boarding school. You know and that kind of didn't really allow me to date much because i was like the only asian girl and he's preppy white guys. You know like me so you know. I mean i'm just being very frank about it. You really happened later for me. And you know and then when i got to that stage i was already thinking about my career so again. Here's the thing. I always want to tell younger. Women is that you know you're told you can have it all but what what they don't tell you is. You can't have it all at once so you have to make choices that sometime berry. Tough but at twenty five you think oh i have time i got all the old so i can focus on this and i'll get to that and i'll have kids in my whole thing and i know a lot of people do this as well. I put goals like. I associated my age with a goal so i said at the age of thirty. I'm going to be a network anchor. And i will have found a man and then i'll start thinking about having kids into my thirties so i set these goals but life doesn't work that way. You know. I mean you can't plan things and finger gonna work out. You know exactly. The way you want will sets us up for disappointment to because i feel like sounds like the biggest challenges. Your expectations aren't because i think i would go on a gamble that the majority of women think the way that you just said i know i certainly do. Yeah or did. I'm trying to get off of that. But the question is is it. Timing is life stage or is it the guy like let's say that guy was the per i mean what if there was this notion that guy was perfect for you and he would have moved tokyo with you and you started a life there. Is there yet no. I mean who doesn't think about past relationships in terms of like doing an analysis right. And i gotta tell you guys. I have definitely tried to take inventory. I for my past relationships. Just try and ask myself. Yeah the what ifs may be more so like ease is something that i made the right choice or is it something that you know. Distracted me from something that have potentially been good. And instead i was so narrow focus or something narrow minded so for instance this guy. Nothing wrong with them. There's absolutely he was spits. He still is a sweet sweet guy. And do i think back. Yeah i probably could build. You know a good life with him. I mean but who knows right but in my had made that choice. I'm not sure. If i would have done what i've done with my life of now travel the world and worked at all these different locations. Because who's gonna wanna keep up with that. A very patient really geared to have a very similar i. That's what i told you julie. My spirit animal a or as story right learning so much. So where were you then at thirty five like with thirty five. Oh wow okay lemme me. Let me Wind up the clock here so okay. So twenty eight. I joined tokyo then at thirty. I was at cnn in hong kong. Then at third okay. By the age of thirty five i joined oxygen media. Which was the women's network. That over went ahead. Launch young in two thousand and i was living in manhattan. And i'm telling you i felt like carrie. Bradshaw of life in new york's very glamorous you know and of course because we were at. We're all working for oprah and oxygen. It was the most amazing job. I think it was probably the most fun.

00:40:02 - 00:45:03

I've had a job sort of the most creative lifestyle i've had unfortunately though a year later It was nine eleven. Everything changed so so. Yeah so i was there for nine eleven. I was covering it. I lost a friend in nine eleven so it was a really weird time and i was in my mid thirties and because of that of course i start i. I was thinking tiktok. You know my biological like where this is taking a turn to dance with about. Get on tiktok. No i have. You talked about the same but yes so at that time. You know when you're in your mid thirties. Of course that's when you start really thinking. Oh boy i'd better start thinking about whether or not i'm going to have a family. And if so. I better find the guy who you know is going to be a good father blah blah blah. But i think i still was at that stage where my career was. I was doing so well. And i it. I hope your listeners viewers are lists aren't saying now god she sounds like a total selfish pitcher. No that wasn't it. I was so. I felt so called to be this journalist and i was living out this really strong purpose and clearly after thirty plus years of doing it. I'm still doing it so i answered. The right call was meant to do while on this earth. And so that was such a driving force for me that i think everything else sort of revolved around. You know that aspect of my life. Let's hold that thought for a second. We'll get right back to it and we want to think another sponsor magic spoon. I really love that. The current trend is all about healthy eating for one cutting down on carbs and sugar has been especially difficult for me because i didn't realize that so much of that. Basically everything that love particularly in cereal so when i heard about a magic cereal with zero sugar eleven grams of protein and only three net grams of carbs in each serving. I was like Sold y'all this is not magic. This is magic spoon. A line of delicious tasting cereal. That is almost too good to be true. And it's all kito friendly gluten free grain free soy free carp gmo free and frankly guilt free checkout magic spoon dot com slash dateable to grab a variety pack and try it today and be sure to use the promo code dateable at checkout to get free shipping and magic spoon is so confident in their product. It's backed with a one hundred percent happy guarantee so if you don't like it for any reason though refund your money no questions asked. That's magic spoon dot com slash dateable and use the code dat ab l. e. for free shipping all right. Let's get back to this episode. I don't think that people are gonna think you're selfish at all. I think a lot of people myself included can really relate to that. And i think that's why a lot of people are having relationships and settling down having children leader and leader because a lot of people are putting their career. I so i don't think it comes off that way at all. Okay i feel like i when i feel like. I'm at the height of my career. That's when i really would like a partner to share that life and share that experience with. I don't know if you if you feel that way to you know what. That's i think. That's a really really good point. Because there have been moments of my life where i have reached a you know an extraordinary goal in my career and i'm flying high and yeah i do feel like wow you sure would be nice to share this euphoria that i have and the experience that i'm going through this incredible interview. I just did with somebody or on the show that i just said and yeah i mean i do feel like. That's what a partnership should be sharing achievement and excitement enjoy together Doing it alone is fine. You know. I mean i got. I've gotten very good at it but when you can share that excitement with another human being who Supports what you're doing and how you're doing it and can share in that you know celebration. I mean then. It doubles that feeling of gratitude. Just don't think about it. Sometimes that way i guess like especially. I don't know i'm thinking about even like right this minute like we're doing a lot of stuff with dateable a very motivated by it very passionate about it and i'm currently single and then sometimes i'm like oh my god i have to take the time to get on dating apps and like make it a priority. I think sometimes when your career is really just like wildly going up and you have a lot happening. It's hard to make that time especially if you're traveling. You're doing appearances. Like i could see how it goes to the sidelines.

00:45:03 - 00:50:01

Even if it was something that he wanted. Let's talk about this. Which not changed. Is that when men me. A successful woman who is high powered or profile. They at i always an great. I'm so attracted to women like that. You know. I think it's great and then it fizzles because they actually can't handle it. A lot of only speaking from my own experience in happen has happened many times. Where i they claim that they think it's attractive And then they get a reality check and a dose of what it's really like to be with someone like not and they're like now i'd rather take the wallflowers bang so yes you're never there. You're doing stuff all the time. It's it's an ego thing. Yeah an echo thing right and i think we still live in a patriarchal society to a certain extent where you know women with more power is still unusual getting better. But it's definitely still. There won't say also i also think a lot of people want to date the instagram. You and not the real life you. They see the highs only and they think that's very attractive but they don't know how all the hard work you have to put into behind the scenes for us. Dateable takes up a lot of time that takes away from my time with my boyfriend. I have to be with a partner. Who understands that right who can also understand the benefits but also there are certain lows to this industry to that are not pretty and they have to accept you during that time too. Yeah yeah. I know so needle in a haystack. Thirty five or you like dating or were you just not really dating no actually got into a serious relationship. Thirty five no. I'm sorry. I got out of a Relationship that with somebody. I met in hong kong. This is the guy who absolutely shattered my heart in a million pieces Watch story that. I told you about you. A i had told you on my show that this guy had bought me a watch When we were dating he was american. Living in hong kong. Like me and I after he shattered my heart and million pieces I can say that over and over again. i couldn't. I couldn't even bear the thought of having the watch in my possession. I wasn't even wearing it. I just couldn't even have it in my house. So i took it to watch store to sell it and this wise old man talked me out of any comforted me as i was bawling in his store to tell me it's okay honey. It's gonna get better. Just put it away for as long as you need to and some day. It's not going to hurt anymore. And he was right. It took a couple of years. And then i pulled it out one day and i was like i think i can wear this so have it so so that was the relationship that really broke. My heart did me some serious damage from many many years. You guys and then. I moved to new york and i was dating in new york actually and i dated a couple people for you know a couple months at a time but i actually while i was in new york now. I didn't actually date anyone long-term. Can i ask why it ended. If you're willing to. Oh yeah no no. I'll told. I think this will break people's hearts actually. He wasn't ready even though we had dated for three years. And it was probably the best time i've ever had a relationship You know laughed every day. We go on adventures. I mean he he just made me. You know very happy. Every day because of laughter. That was really important to me. But he wasn't there yet he still wanted to go on adventures and go climb mountains and be this little not that stage and so i had to finally call it because i couldn't hang on much longer because i was thinking about moving to new york at the time and you know calm was he not and finally i. I saw that he wasn't going to do it. And so i broke it off moved to new york. We tried to continue. He wouldn't let go so he wanted his cake and eat it too michael. But he didn't want to kind of feel like i've heard that story invented that story so many avenues. Here's part so. I think i was so crushed by this. The loss of this relationship that for years. You guys i i couldn't. I couldn't release set. I couldn't believe it. And then several years later i found out that He was he was getting married. Not i've got that phone call from my girlfriend who that. I was going to be devastated. Oh my gosh.

00:50:01 - 00:55:03

She literally just goes. may I have something to tell you. And i'm going. What am i thought she was going to tell me. Somebody died right right. Like it's it's an say his name. It does matter dana and she he He just got engaged. And i i think. I dropped the phone and thank god for girlfriends. They rallied around me. That night took me to a bar and got me completely shit faced. Offer them. Yeah no no no. Thank god for girlfriends god. But here's the topper before he got married this long before he met this woman and this was after we broke up. I was still so heartbroken. That i actually at one point asked him to marry me. Yeah selling no he said no what thing and did he just say that he wasn't ready. He said he just he said. I adore you and i love you but i don't. I don't think i can marry you. Wouldn't let go for so many years to. Yeah but i know now. Of course i mean i figured it out afterwards and then he got married and then i actually ended a meeting the woman accidentally after they were married and had a kid but i then understood. It all came together for me. And it's exactly what i was saying. You guys he. I think he admired me for all of my chievements and who i was at that time. I was a big cnn anchor. You know when he met me in hong kong that and but he knew that he didn't want to marry a man like Right he wanted to marry a woman that was more like his mother. And i know that. Sounds like your stereotypical kind of like you know. Sort of action. That like a lot of men take but it was true. I knew his mother and his father really well and she was the sweetest kindest loveliest woman who is a wonderful mother and i know that's what he wanted and that in me in terms like being the woman who could all of a sudden drop everything and stay home and be maternal and you know and good wife and all of that so i got i understood it it. I mean it didn't help. Ease the pain at all but i i eventually understood it so you said this was bright before you turn thirty five wended. Like how old were you when he got married early. Did i think he got. Let's see. I must have been then like thirty. Eight couple of years went by. I mean you guys. I dated for three years and then it was public. I'm not. I'm not kidding. Probably another seven years. Where i still harbored feelings for him. I've i've been there. I totally get it creating other people but he was like the standard. And that's a healthy thing right because you're always here but that's yeah i suffered for a while. It's like where i was at thirty five. I feel yeah. I feel like at thirty five. I like said goodbye to that. Like heart wrenching. Break-up like it was over a couple year or year before that it was in therapy. Like i was dating all in then. Of course like as trying to get over it. He comes back into the picture to like. Give it another try and all the stuff is change. So i remember it was like right before like basically right before my thirty fifth birthday remember. He was like. I can't do this again. I can't commit even though he was the one that came back all this and at that point like it broke me again but then in thirty five. I 'member like i was actually doing really well after that. I remember my healthiest. I've ever been like. I was just like very fit like eating really healthy just like feeling good overall and then i ended up meeting someone really great that and i think finally like releasing him actually helps with that but of course you people on the podcast of this but into that relationship by newer boyfriend lost his visa and had to go back to the uk. So it was unfortunate in thirty five. But i think i was able to see someone else in the picture again so that was a benefit for me. Yeah yeah well. I mean you know. I always think that whenever i was down about that not working out of it. Got to the place where you know. At least i have. I feel like i have really felt deep love somebody. That's how i felt. Yeah i do. I do now look back on it. Very fondly and girls. You're lucky man. This story that. I just told you about proposing not i mean not a whole hell of a lot of people know this story in fact will now. Now more people are going to do it. In fact i wrote a book. I was asked to write a book many years ago in two thousand eight and they wanted me to write about my career and all that stuff and so they assign the publisher.

00:55:03 - 01:00:04

Assigns you an editor. That will work with you. You know just to make sure that everything's okay and this woman was great. She was a very good editor. And so i actually had put in my manuscript that story. Oh my gosh opposing. And she says to me she's like may. I don't think you need to put this in the bone. And why why she's like. I think this is a little bit too much. It's a little too personal. Are you sure you want to put it in the book. And i'm grateful that she told me that because it was too. I think i was still processing right now. Years later and healthy for me to put it in the book at that time right for sure and so it was good advice on her part. Because i'm so glad. I didn't now i can talk about it and it's no big deal when you're in it it's hard. Yeah you were you at thirty five was i wouldn't move. Sf gosh a little bit. After i moved to sf. I don't at thirty five. I just remember having a moment of like. This is not were expected myself to be thirty five right. I guess we can rewind back to when we were twenty five at twenty five. I thought oh by thirty five. I'll definitely be married with kids. You know it's like it's just it comes with the package and then a thirty five or sitting in my studio in san francisco and looking at the window and thinking thirty five. This is not where i thought. I'd be and not that i wasn't okay with it was just kind of like a up call like well. What should i be doing right now. It was failing just a tad bit lost. But i guess for those ten years between twenty five thirty five. My life was so defined by the men in my life it was. I didn't feel like i was a liberated independent woman. I felt like each every couple of years. There would be some guy that i was clinging onto and my identity was somehow linked to him. Because when i look back from twenty five to thirty five it was like instead of milestones. There guys you know the era of this guy in the era of this guy. But i think at thirty five when when i really liberated myself from identifying with someone else interesting i remember thirty five. I was dreading that birthday so much for the same reason that like you said. I wasn't where i was going to be. I think thirty. There's this expectation like. Oh now. I'll finally have a relationship and all of that and then like i mentioned i actually did meet someone that i thought was going to be that person in the end up working out so like at like. I think we broke up when i was like thirty two ish then like thirty three. I went through like this like you know just hellish year of not being over him but not being with him at the same time and i remember when thirty five rolled around just like a weird in the last couple of years ago because i wasn't like actively dating in that time i've ever going to vegas with a couple of friends because i'm like i need to take my mind off. I remember at midnight on my thirty. Th birthday i got an email from like insurance carrier being like we've increased you to the next bucket like so your premium has gone up. I'm like they couldn't frigging wait till lake or something. What the hell. And i was like i was texting me if it's the insurance company. That's a romcom right there but okay. So may we when you talked about these two circumstances when you're twenty five thirty five. There is still very much based around the idea of marriage about it right. So like both of these conflicts. I guess in a way are based on the outcome of marriage. So at what point did you remove marriage out of the equation of that. Came much later because i think i was still in your thirties. You're still thinking. Marriage is possible and kids right is. That's like physically so possible. Let's it down to our right So i think that was always something that was you know. Here's a thing and i really. I'm glad we're talking about this. Because i think women girls women were still pro ground right by society to think that marriage and children are still something we're supposed to do and if we don't do it what do you mean you're not married and you've never met. What do you mean you don't have kids. Did you not want them. I mean you know you're always. You're always questioned about that decision as if it's like such a mistake to do that because it's our job we've been appointed as women to have children and then get married so i think i was program certainly to think that way and i just assumed it would happen so anytime i was in a serious relationship. Of course i'm going to think. Oh you know. Could this be the guy. That i'm gonna finally marry right now with the guy who broke my heart.

01:00:04 - 01:05:00

I mean i really did want to be with him but clearly didn't work out. So yes so. I think that was always part of the thinking for me again because of the programming and not saying that i didn't want it to. I think i wanted it. The kid thing. I think i was putting that off. Because i knew that if i had children i could not have the career that i was having right where it was going to be challenging. Yeah no that was a more conscious decision on my part sang. Okay as long as i can. So when did this all dissipate. So i have one more almost getting married story which was at the age of forty At at the age of forty. I know exactly why i was thinking. I was going to get married because i was turning forty. It was not. Because i thought this was the right guy. Oh interesting the right guy. It was not because i loved him more than anything in the world. I did not love him that so. This was a absolute lesson in trying to shove a square peg into a round wall. Because it was time. Because i was thinking. Oh my god. I'm turning forty and if i don't do it now it's never going to happen and i still felt like i had that tiny window of having a kid if i wanted to you know it was. It was slipping away pretty quickly. But i still had that window. Maybe so i was trying to force this. And lo and behold three days before. We're about to leave. Singapore guy in singapore australian mistake Three days before we were about to leave to come visit my parents in la for him to ask them for my hand in marriage he breaks up with me yes like did he get the sixth sense that you weren't fully into it. Like what was i think. It was a combination of probably getting some feeling for me but also he was cheater. Oh okay i didn't have any total proof. But i knew he was cheating and also i think he saw the writing on the wall in terms of me being independent again independent strong minded woman and i think he just was like. Yeah don't want to do this so but he waited until the last minute. And that's what really pissed me off. Was that it not just affected me. I think i was more hurt by the fact that he was hurting my family. Yeah no kid had prepared the hours. I mean my mom's artists so she painted this portrait from a photo of the two of us home. Go in his room. Oh my god. They're probably to that. This was like happening. And so that happened and i think i was more. I think i was angrier about the pain that he caused my parents. More than me Yeah but ladies. I'm not just saying this. Thank the lord that happened because holy shit. I dodged a bullet. I mean we have seen that. We've definitely seen people do like the mad scramble when they get into their like league thirties. I think people handle it differently. I feel like there's some people. I think i'm kind of on the second. The first boat of the sense of the second boat the first post vote against bad scramble. I think the second boat is kind of like what you said you a to. It's you kind of get a little apiece with it a little more. So i see people going in both directions like one to just get it done before certain time or being like more at ease with like easing up timelines. Let's hold that thought for a second. I'll get right back to it now. The holidays are the perfect time to get a little bit more. Glam d- up even if you're attending more virtual parties than past years thrive cosmetics. Yes cosmetics instead. Cosmetics is one of our favorite beauty brands that we discovered this year. Their products are a high performance award. Winning and are both vegan and cruelty free the clinically proven formulas highlight your best features improve your skin over time our goto and julie. I know you love this. One is the award. Winning mascara called liquid lash extensions oga. And i don't know about anybody else but i have not been able to get my lash extensions this year because of it and this product makes my lashes so long. I've been asked if i'm wearing extensions. This flake free smudge free and clump. Free product has more than seven thousand five star reviews and one glamorous best clean beauty product of twenty twenty award for the best mascara and now a lot of their holiday sets include a free tube of this mascara plus for every product. You buy they donate to help. A woman thrive. Yes that's where the cosmetics come from are thriving and help women in need today by going to thrive cosmetics dot com slash dateable for fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's thrive c. a. u. s. e. medics dot com slash d.

01:05:00 - 01:10:08

a. t. e. a. b. l. e. for fifteen percent off and one more quick announcement from us. Let's face it. It's a weird time to be dating or developing relationships. Have you recently decided that you wanna to make some changes to your love life. Maybe you've recently reentered. The dating seed may be gone on one. Too many dates that went nowhere. Or maybe you're ready to take your current relationship to the next level. That is exactly why we created the sounding board a true extension of our podcast that delivers a personalized experience which includes one coffee dates with us. A monthly dateable live after show exclusive audio content and much more allow julian. I become your dating. Sherpa us to provide real time guidance and wisdom in a more intimate way so we can navigate dating and relationships together. Join the sounding board today by going to dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board again. That's dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. Okay let's get back into this combo right. Yeah and it's not just us. It's like our friends and family society. My mom said to me last night. She said if you and your boyfriend aren't going to have kids let's get. Let's find you a donor. Let's just get you a kid summer. Let's find a handsome donor literally. That's why she said she's like you don't have much time. We gotta do this. and i. i really felt like. I was in some sort of like a prank. Or something like really. You just want me to have kid with some random dude. Just do it but speaking of this pressure we have a lot of listeners. Right in and say that they feel this pressure to couple up and settled down during this time they feel like their time has paused. We talked about this on your show to may. What do you think is. I mean you've come out of this and you've you've navigated your way out of this and you don just fine. So what would be some advice from you to to anybody who feels that time crunch. Yeah you can't feel the pressure just because of time. You know you have to think about yourself in terms of what is it in your life that you really want and it's going to be lasting right. I think we live in such a temporary society. now where it's instant gratification. Taking something or someone or some object is gonna make you happy but then it's fleeting right so you know i. I really tell. Try to tell young people. It's like listen. You have to try to get to know yourself much better than you probably do. And of course that comes with time and wisdom and more experience and age But you really need to ask yourself okay. Just because society says this is the way it's supposed to be done doesn't mean it's necessarily for you. Net society keeps evolving. And changing as we see you know all the time There's this now change in the dynamics of men male roles and female roles. There's this i really think there's this pivotal changes taking place overall in terms of family. What does family mean. what is it look like. What's a relationship now. I mean it certainly doesn't necessarily mean marriage it could be just partnership cohabitation. Some people don't even live so some people are married and they don't even live in the same right. I don't think it's a bad idea. I you know what though. It's interesting. Because i feel like we. One of our most popular episodes last season was relationship. Are you sure you want one. And i think a lot of people are questioning it. And i feel like even myself. I'm like do. I wanna relationship or is it because like society tells me i should want one and i think the one of the fears remember talking to a therapist about is that you're gonna be left behind so let's say you decide that this isn't the path you but all like in your twenties and thirties. That's totally fine. Because there's more than enough people to do stuff with and you have like alternative. Lives not like some spinster sitting at home with your cats right but like there is. There's a story that's played out that. Like in your thirties and forties fifties in people have their own lives more like people that took the more traditional path in had kids in all that. Like what has been your experience like. Do you feel like that's a stereotype. The holds up or have you been able to like have that same vibrant lights that you had You know i mean. I'm a little unusual. But at the same time i'll say this and maybe i'm an unusual even with my circle france. I literally have so many single girlfriends. Who like me have never been married and know if vibrant careers they have vibrant. Lives are very active. Travel all over the place and they don't they also feel the same way as i do in terms of you know we've made these choices and we're happy with these choices. There are ups and downs. But there's ups and downs with no matter what situation you're in. I have married friends. Who are some of them. Blissfully happy others so miserable Living in hell and have children who are getting into trouble and all of that.

01:10:08 - 01:15:01

So you know. Grass is always greener. Of course. But i i mean i. I feel very blessed. I really do feel like i've lived. The lifetimes of probably three people already mazing. That's wonderful to hear her character. From titanic and you know how she was posted to get married to this guy who was very controlling blah blah blah. But then she falls in love with what was his name chat at a and then you know you see the course of her life where she became like she was traveling Issue going on adventures and you see all the photos of her life. And i remember watching that and then later on thinking about that movie and that particular character and i'm like that's kind of how i feel with what i've done. I've decided to take the road of being more independent more adventures and really try to live life fully. And just see where it takes me Yes there are moments you guys. I'm not going to sugarcoat this. Of course they're still moments where i think about. Yeah you know it would have been nice to have a kid think i would really awesome mom but it didn't happen that way so i better use my life in the way that i meant to whatever purpose and right now you know. I'm an adjunct professor. Usc so i teach young people so. That's totally gratifying. And then i do the show and so you know. I feel like i have shaped a life. You know is fitting for who i am. I'm so glad to hear that it's one of those things to that. It's it makes so much sense in especially in today's society like people are getting divorced more even if you get married. It's not a guarantee that that's going to be your life for the long run so in i love the grass is greener is totally true to. It's like you always kind of always want what you can't have. And also listen. You guys mean media has really mess l. a. All of us you know. So people put up this front of showing that their life is so breakdown. Look at this perfect house in. This perfect vacation are perfect. Children my perfect husband and all in all. It's all smoke and mirrors. Ooh that's really messed up the psyche of a lot of people. And i think a lot of young women and girls are being programmed in a negative way that way too. So yeah i mean that. That worries me when i when i continuously see that on social media hopefully will. There's this book by eric klein. And berg who was one is like a sociologist and he was actually one of the co authors of modern romance with these sorry and he put out a new book recently about just like this phenomenon. More people living alone and he really lake studied it as like a big cultural shift of what's been happening and i think one of the findings that he mentioned is like people have this perception. That if you're alone you're lonely. You're not doing anything but people that he talked to had like the most social vibrant social lives out of anyone like even more than their married counterparts like they were more active in their communities. Were more active like going to restaurants in like different more social engagements like within their communities too. So it's one of those things. It's it's the stereotypes but they're not always accurate now. I think we're breaking the stereotypes for shore as women certainly are because look. Let's be real. I mean women have evolved much quicker than men because we've had to write because our roles have changed and we've obviously gained a lot more independence and a lot more rights and equality. Issue is still working on it and pay parody. All that stuff but still the advancements have been pretty drastic and so because of that you know women are kind of growing into our own skin in a much better way and so because of that new found independence and that freedom. I think women are a lot more curious. And we're adventures to want to see our lives can take us with or without a partner And so the loneliness thing. We all get lonely. Come on You know so doesn't get lonely on occasion mark. I know again people who are in relationships and they are the loneliest people. I absolutely yeah. I always say like there's nothing worse than being in a relationship and feeling loma absolutely the worst absolutely worst feeling or is it so like single means lonely. I hate that. That is like a stereotype. Yeah does this go aspect of like you're alone physically but you know it's it's all about what's inside you and how what you do with your time in your life when i struggle with this though what we said at the top of this episode. Which is you can't have it. You can't have it all but not all at the same time.

01:15:01 - 01:20:01

And i see that absolutely with a lot of these celebrities like will and jada jetta pinkett smith. You know you for years. You had this image that they were this perfect family perfect perfect kids and then you hear about what goes on behind closed doors when she's sleeping with her son's best friend. So that's that's a whole other story but then my question is does that mean that when we have something going for us we need to sacrifice something else is. That is that the reality then. Well okay so. I have talked to a lot of high powered women in my time as journalists and the these people because of what i do and you know the events that i go to and it's very rare when they were if they're speaking truthfully it's very rare for them to say. Oh yeah i've never had to sacrifice anything They always say they had to sacrifice something and they always have guilt Men have tremendous guilt immature air. It's not fair. I know life isn't fair but for some reason maybe it's in our dna. It's the way we're made up as women But we have such guilt. We have to make a sacrifice. And so therefore i think. Psychologically it's even harder for women to try to juggle so many things in their lives and so they end up being totally stressed out kind of feeling like they're not living their lives fully either as a career woman or a mother or wife or threat. You know 'cause they just can't can't do everything one hundred percent And that's just the reality. So i think the best most successful women that i've talked to who have been able to handle it. They say i just prioritize only knew that something has to be sacrificed. Therefore i have to truly ask myself. What's most important to me. And it goes back to knowing yourself rain at a know what your values are truly truly what your values are and what's going to be lasting and i think that really takes time to develop that because what my values and what i thought i wanted in my life and my twenty s are totally. Yes i are you kidding now. I don't give a shit about half the stuff that i cared and ladies just all of you out there you're fifties. Do not try them. I'm telling you you're the fifties rock y you do not give a shit about me thing or what anybody thinks about you you care. I love that it also. I realized it was one of those things that everyone was dreading their twenties then. They were dreading their thirties then their adrenaline forty in every year. It's like forty new thirty. Like everything just keeps shifting so But i think now actually is something very real because you are seeing that even with the celebrities. I mean you know it's being celebrated now because it's the combination of the wisdom you know now we're actually respecting the wisdom and the experience and obviously people are taking better care of themselves so they're looking really great to know so i think that is i think that's a great change. That's taking place where older women especially are being more respected on are being seen as beautiful and you know not disposable like they were before. I mean looking j. for crying out loud she do. I don't you wish that we were back in simpler times when all women were stacked up against. We're just their look now. I wish that. I wish that it simpler times where we just had one thing that l. We need to worry about now. It's like this. This is what the narrative i always here. She looks amazing for her age and she has kids and she has a career and she has a family. But you never hear that about men like nobody's looking at george clooney. Oh looks amazing for his career and he's a dad and he's a great husband. Great it's like women are just one thing isn't enough anymore to be all these things and men just can just they. I mean they dad bod'ed so celebrated in this culture. I still don't understand why we're like. He has a dad. Bod'ed go off jaylo. She's fifty she looks like. She's twenty five plugging embroidery career. I'm sure who's pushing that. Dad bod'ed narrative and doing the marketing behind pushing that idea because then they can get away with having dad bonds. Y'all just need to move into marketing. it's true though. I think there is this narrative now that we can have it all and we should have it all. And i agree with you though.

01:20:01 - 01:25:01

It's like how do you prioritize like an especially. I think it's the the part i question. It's right now. You actually touched on this. It's like right now. I have my priorities into honest. I don't know if i want children. But i fear that in a couple years i'll regret position. Like how do you make peace with being in the moment opposed to always having to look in the future or the past. Yeah i think. That's i was a victim for many years about always looking ahead like never stopping. Just enjoy the moment. I was always like okay. What's next okay. What job on my gotten you. Where am i my next. And that is my one regret actually. I don't have a lot of regrets in life. I don't believe in them. Because are you gonna do. But i will say if i have to think about something i wish i could have done less of or change. I would have done much less of that. Always just looking ahead and always worrying about like okay. What am i gonna do now. You know because you can't control the future. You certainly can't change the past right so you gotta make do and do what's right right now. You know figure figure shutout as you go along because all the planning on the world could just completely get tossed out the window. That's why the line. John lennon line from his beautiful boys. One of my favorite quotes. It's life. Is what happens when you're busy making other plans That's exactly right it. You know And so i definitely come at peace with that whole notion now but you know i'm fifty four. It took a while. So even in my forties i was still trying to control. You know the future and the direction In a way that i was somehow restrictive without me even knowing it so think part of it is because there's a fear like i think this is something ed love to hear your thoughts on this but i feel like you hear this narrative the older you get the more difficult dating gets because there's a smaller pool and all of that scarcity scarcity mindset and i feel like if you're already feeling like it's difficult there's just like tons of pressure and all of that like i guess from your experience a cab. You experience that like do you think. The dating pool is different in your fifties as it was in your forties thirties. Oh totally you know. I mean okay. I'll i'll give you the nitty gritty so in your fifties even in your forties. So because i've tried online dating on and off you know different platforms the only one that i haven't there's a couple i haven't tried but i've never done tender. I have no interest in during tender. Just because asian at house. But what happens is there's ageism yep y- there's just downright ageism it doesn't matter because online dating and the apps it allows you to control your settings right so age is one of them so most guys even guys were in their fifties their maximum age that they're going to put on for to find a woman is going to be like thirty nine or so. Yeah we're thirty five right. Yeah okay okay. I'm just going to boast for one second. I look better than most thirty five year. Old women okay coyne. I'm never going to cross. They're right their own because of my age so of course the pull is going to be a smaller for me. Because i'm not even given a chance to some of these people so that makes it hard. But here's the thing. I have gotten to a stage where i'm selective too because at fifty four. You think i'm just going to date anyone exactly what i mean. I have better things to do seriously. Yes there are moments like. oh yeah nicest. Somebody could take me out to dinner but nobody's doing that right now. So it doesn't matter. You know but at but overall i think well it better be worth it. It better be worth my time better. Really be something that i enjoy and we enjoy together. The person that whoever i'm dating or else what's the why. Why would i do that. I don't need to get married for financial reasons. I'm not getting married. You know to have a baby so a relationship to me now is much more meaningful ida. Bring some sort of enhancement to my life as well as that other person. I don't need to be completed. I don't need to complete somebody else. You know that in our line sucks ass young. I'm marty complete. Thanks very much. Thank you very much. I would love enhancement though and then opportunity to share you know and have a connection so if that's not there then i'm not gonna just do it out of desperation. Do you find that. Also the men that you you attract are different now in your fifties. I'm gonna take a. I'm just gonna take staff here. I'm going to guess that you attract a lot of what we call tater tots young men who are just like little snacks. She may not be good for you long term.

01:25:01 - 01:30:00

But they're good to snack every once in a while. I'm gonna. I'm gonna guess there are a lot of young men after you love the fact that you have all these i'll it's so fun. Yeah okay so from my online dating experiences. Yes they're they're definitely guys in their thirties. Who are attracted. And and i don't know if it's because they're looking for a sugar mama or whatever i don't know and so for me i'm definitely not one to take the bait Yeah i've never been somebody who has been attracted to really younger men. Yeah yeah so. Are you meeting people. Warlike i guess post pre covid since covered is hard to do this like re mostly using app. Serie mostly meeting like people out in about. What's so if i had if i had a dollar for every time. I said i am never going to do online dating again. Ever i'll be so rich. What pre covert. I had done that again. I was like i'm done. I'm so died. Unless i'd organically forget it and i swore it off again I got set up by somebody back in early february and It was a setup. And i was like. Oh my god. When does that ever happen anymore. I never get set. Yeah career and so. I got up went out with the sky very beginning february. And we hit it off like a house on fire yet. Lay so we started dating. And i really was smitten. I was smitten. He was age appropriate. We're like one year apart. Divorced has a fourteen year old. So you know definitely like secure. Whatever or so i thought and he just said i'm not i have no vision. I have no vision. For what i want. And just kind of ghosted me during cove ed so now not yeah i have one of those copays stories of somebody sort of like being sensitive she what was going through and i hope at fifty as well. Unfortunately honey they do. I mean we talked to someone at seventy that. Got ghost seventy ghosted or would they do. They really goes to covance the same. I don't think that changes with age. I think people are still you know you jill. You mentioned fear. Fear fears at the heart of a lot of behavior as a so. You you act fearful because of fear you act out of desperation Because of fear you go somebody because it's too emotional. It's it's getting too intimate. you know. Fear definitely prevents people from being true to their selves. And if even at in your fifties if they're not you know aware of themselves and how that self awareness about who they are what they want. They're still there can be exactly the same as the thirty year olds totally well. It's a good segue to take away. Because i feel like fear is definitely one that i'm gathering from this too because like even some of the stereotypes that i asked you or we asked in this. Like that's coming from. Just what society tells you to be scared about. It's not coming from anyone. You know or any truth and i know like even during quarantine i remember like when i was first alone living alone. I'm like oh my god. This is going to be terrible lake. I'm going to be so lonely. And i have not felt that at all and i. It's like at the end of the day to their sphere of like ending up by yourself like that is the worst thing that could possibly happen like you are. Spoon fed this a very early age. And i've been thinking over this quarantine to unlike if this is what it is. It's not that bad. You know you're doing okay. I'm like like as long as you can find things that fuel yourselves. I know there's people that are equally by themselves or even in relationships that are struggling or having different ways of dealing with beat like this time. And i think it's just like how do you build a life that you're passionate about and that doesn't necessarily it could be the traditional path of having a family not saying it can't be but it also can be many other things and i think that's really the takeaway with all this. Is that nothing anymore. Is one singular route in like especially coming from like an age of divorce. We've seen that. That is not necessarily the solution to happiness. And i think that's what's making it just like more accepted that people are just on their own house and living life in each age each generation becomes the new twenty. The new thirty. And i think that's great. I'm glad that we're hearing like living proof of that. Oh no i think i think it's a continuous evolution and expansion of the definition of what life and family and relationships are supposed to be about.

01:30:00 - 01:35:03

It's not this one is not this one small box right. It's now like multiple boxes. Actually the boxes being kind of blown open and you can define what it is that you want in your life and what you you want your life to look like and hey it can change. I don't think that just because this way now it's not going to change in the next decade because that's kind of what happened with me. You know each decade something different happened with the relationship or my career or where i lived and i kind of just went with it right and i made choices some very conscious choices and just some very organic choices. That just happened over. That's the difference. I think people that's why i think quarantine has been good a hell. Yeah at meet people. Just stop and really look at themselves and ask themselves some tough serious questions about what they want who they are what they care about and how they want to spend their time. Will i think it's it's all about mindset and you said this earlier like you realize that you were not on the path of family and children and you can choose to be upset and look at yourself like you know that. There's something wrong with you or you can choose to live the life that you're meant to live in. I think it's all goes back to that. Like you can be scared of like what's happening in the future. You can be scared that you're not gonna have you know the dating pools going to shrink or all that but the reality is no one knows. What's in store for them in life. I have aunts. Who are traditional korean women. All married with children and their kids have children and everything like that and then my mother too. She's eighty four and now they're all saying to me and my mom may so much better off with rush on the has the most amazing life. Grass is always greener and so in korea. The new trend in korea is that women are staying single. They're going oh they're going. You know by themselves are going travelling by themselves. They're not getting married because they don't want to. So this is happening around the world. This is a evolution of females and be debt redefining family and how one chooses to live their life. That's that's fascinating. I think you know it just goes into what. I'm taking away from this whole conversation. Is this idea of like not planning too far ahead and being accepting where you are today and i i agree with you. May i think quarantine has been really good for that because whatever plans you made in twenty twenty what. Just rip that piece of paper up because that's not going to happen but it's been really freeing for me to think now marinating in the present and feeling my feelings right now and not having to try to multitask to move my life forward in some way and i've heard this actually from a lot of people in my mom and i have this conversation all the time. Why can't women be happy because we always want more. I always like what's next. What's the next step. How do i make this better. How do we get to the next level. Why can't we just frigging chill because we already put so much pressure yourselves as is we just gotta chill which goes into my next takeaway which is like i think after this conversation. It's not so much about sacrifice when it comes to having it all it's reprioritizing and that reprioritisation probably happens on a daily basis. I think right. And it's okay. I mean i've had days where i try to crush it at everything and i ended up not crushing anything. Crushing myself right. So finding that one thing that that takes presidents today and might not tomorrow and we crush that and everything else. I'm going to try to just de prioritize and giving us a space to say that is okay tell you that is also liberating for for women. But i do wanna pay posed this. The scenario and this is just for future discussion. Which is if more women are choosing to stay single. That means many men will have to stay single involuntarily right. I mean but that's how it works so for a lot of the men out there. I think women have already gone on this journey. Of what what. It's like to be alone in single. And we you know it's like it's it's okay for us to be on this journey now we've been talking about it for so long but for men. I think for a lot of you. Who are listening. Now's the time to think about this journey to cause your time is coming. Women have been talking to each other about this for so long but for for men. I know a lot of my male friends have a really hard time being alone. Yeah much hotter time of sums my girlfriend's being alone eve no matter your relationship status. I think it is healthy to learn how to be because at the end of the day.

01:35:03 - 01:40:00

I mean even if you're married for your entire life someone's going to die. I like they're gonna be alone at some point of your life. Potentially i mean if you just like so. Many of our listeners are coming into the rebate coming back to the dating scene in their forties in their fifties in their sixties. Like nothing is like a hundred percent always the way it's gonna stay like there's gonna be periods that you could be alone so i think being comfortable being alone is probably one one of the never put a priority on that is just learn to be comfortable taking trips by yourself just being happy in your own presence like i know personally that has really meet this quarantine a lot. Easier than if i didn't do that work. Yeah but they. They always say that. I know statistically men when they get divorced they immediately get back men when they get divorced. They kind of want to be like well. I wanna be also women initiate more divorces. Yeah that's true tale. Yeah so but yeah. I think for men who are listening. Yeah you guys get touch with yourself a little bit. And i don't mean that way that way maybe during ta three yard but i just find like men i wish they would do more self reflective and self met. Because i think you know again. The natural tendency for man is to hide their feeling stuff their emotions whatever and not really talked to anyone yes. We're we're lucky as women. We have our female friends and we'll talk to anybody about that. That's a way of releasing And getting that you know Consoling advice from somebody. But with man. I i do feel sorry for them. Some time there are some men who are very involved than they are but often times they still have that masculinity kind of thing that hang up and so therefore you know. I feel like they're not. Maybe they're not evolving as quickly as women are and so i wonder if there's this paradigm shift taking place where the gap is going to keep getting wider each way women. The only thing that is going on also is that like there is this redefinition of masculinity. That's happening so i think that is actually going to help men in this that they can. I think for so many years it was seen as a weakness that you could show emotion and now it's being like no it's okay like women evolved and had that liberation men are starting to see that now so i'm i'm hopeful that we won't go to the huge gap and that will actually start to come more together and more have like healthier. You know feelings of being alone and all that an absolutely we've been having these conversations separately if we're gonna talk about masculinity include women the conversation about yemen is include men. In conversation to this is why we can't have only have our girlfriends to tell us. What do you think the guys thinking like. How would our girlfriends neely better that we would. So i think it's just it just shows that we need to come together and conversations. You a very good point. Because i think oftentimes when women are going through an issue with a man we go to girl fads and of course our girlfriends girl. He sucks my god. He said jerk. That's fine because sometimes i need that. But i do think i do think man. I would really love to get a different side of join our facebook group. That's our shameless plug. Facebook group that i feel like that has been. I mean honestly one of the most beautiful things that i've ever seen. We have a community of demand women and everyone is just so supportive of each other. You see the different perspectives. And i think like when you get into communities it's just one sacks it's really detrimental of the your viewpoint could invite you to join our facebook group whether you like it or not or you may before we late though. What is being dateable mean to you. Oh wow okay. what's being dateable. What does that mean to me. It means I think dateable means being open and being honest being authentic thing. That's something that makes someone dateable And if you are willing to open up and be really genuine in who you are. What your about your values are. Then i think connection would be so much easier to make Sooner than later without all this other superficiality and bullshit that people get mired in so yeah so that would that. That's what dateable made similar and if people want to stock you where should they go. Don't say your home but allow what is your call them. Tater tots talk. Yeah get those tater tots ed.

01:40:00 - 01:43:45

Yeah no they can be considerably tune into the may lee show which is on youtube on the mainly showed channel. Please subscribe if you can And then on instagram. The mainly show and twitter and facebook. So yeah we're on all those different platforms and We have a lot of fun. You a our show has gotten a lot of play already. Let's own that. We'll share that with our audience to you. But that's amazing. So yeah if you guys want to check out you. A couple of clips to tease show and one of them was when we were talking about that other term. Julie's it's actually julies favour term. Can you guess julie Boy so all people are commenting on. It's great i love that you'll you're the face of fuck boys. Fuck boy slayer to my new tagline. Just so you know you're the face of is right now so i hope i'm not the face whole purpose but yes yes. You're responsible for that term. Well apparently love taiba fat for the name. There's something One of my viewers said when she clips. She's like oh no they're still online. They're still. They're still playing the game they are they are. It's just easier to spot them. Yeah that's true you just don't fuck with the boys that's it right on that note. We're going to wrap thank you so much may for i mean this. We needed this discussion so much. I hear this. Julian i have so many conversations about this but everybody that there is such a huge difference between your mindset where you physically are right now which could be alone. That doesn't mean that it has to make you feel a certain way because still the same person really doesn't really live in the present. Legitimate president doesn't place a value on who you are whether you're alone or not now yourself yeah yourself. Yeah yes definitely. Okay and don't forget if you love us if you love may if you love both of us Give us a rating in apple. Podcast you know five stars. We'll take that but if you don't just be honest but we always loved five star ratings and if you have time work the comments he truly value that because the more ratings we get the better guests began so we get guests like may on their show and because now she knows for a legit off. We'll wrap this up. Stay little dateable. Podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more. Podcast you'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram facebook. Twitter with the handle at dateable podcasts. Tag any post with a hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcasts dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos in our coaching service. With vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free. On spotify apple podcasts. Google play overcast. Stitcher radio and other podcasts. Platforms your feedback is valuable to us. Oh don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.

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