S11E12: Sex, Lies, and Videotape

00:00:00 - 00:05:06

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of datable a show all about modern dating as we dig into the whys behind people's behavior and that includes yourself this past week. We dug pretty deep into the whys of wife many people are facing the dating conundrums are facing at our first sounding board live event. We called it the dating counsel kind of like Judge Judy we're dead. Julie and I were the judges and we give you a verdict on your situation and I have to say Julie. I thought we've heard every question and dating conundrum there is and there were a couple surprising ones. I've never heard of it was so fun. I think people had a really good time cuz it was a mix of you know entertainment but also good advice, you know, and it was a chance to ask us stuff but do it in a fun way people said it was a really fun Thursday night. That's what we kept hearing over and over again and shout out to Louise who helped us produce the event who made it super interactive in life showed us that Zoom can do all the stuff that none of us knew. I swear. She's like the zoo master. I had no idea you could get so interactive and zoom. In fact, we thought Zoom was not the correct format or platform for us that we are looking everywhere else until Louise came on board and she basically showed us zooms. Perfect ways of interacting such as the e. Annotations function who knew I know people said to the they really liked the timer and the music I think, you know, you gotta get the energy in there. Like Zoom has a connotation of super sleepy work meetings. I think ours was anything but so I'm super excited for our next one. We have one another one scheduled. So again shout out if you're not in the sounding board definitely get in because we have another event for November the week before Thanksgiving and we're going to have Kimmy Seltzer who you all know and love from hacks to looking your best be in there. So she's going to be able to kind of what you're dating profiles. Look at what you're wearing and give you those hacks like right away in real time. And again like last time if you don't feel comfortable doing it, you can just come for the entertainment and watch so it's it's a win-win for everyone. Yeah exactly. You don't have to interact but I feel like everyone by the end wanting to interact lie and give us their input and just to clarify log. Need to sign up for the sounding board in order to come to these events and it's for their three tiers in the sounding board. You'll see all the descriptions but this is for the middle tier and the upper teeth. So if you like to join these monthly Live Events, please sign up for the middle tier or the upper tier so you can get more involved with the other people who are also part of the same tear in the sounding board. So if you do just want the lower-tier that's also an option. If you don't want to be going to events. We are releasing our month our monthly audio series. That's basically like in the form of you know, guided prompts and exercises almost like guided meditation, but for like getting to your soul with dating like we're off we're still trying to come up with the right name a hundred percent for it cuz it's feel like it's it's something that people have done in journals, but not as much an audio, but since you all love listening to audio and we love talking with them. And it would be a good method but one of the things that we're talking about in the first one is limiting beliefs and I know personally I've done exercises with this before and it has been I would say probably be number one thing that helped me get out of the rut. I was in and it's not just dating it's applicable to everything in your life and part of what we want to really prove of the sounding board is that dating is just not Silo to part of your life. It is influenced by all the other parts and it also influences the other areas of your life. So limiting beliefs applies to pretty much everything and this can really you can really benefit from this in all aspects of your life. And our last thing that we're going to add to the sounding board is we hit a thousand members in our Facebook group page, which is awesome. So we're not getting rid of the free Facebook group. However, one of the things that we used to do in the Facebook group was a happy hour as you probably heard us mention that you've probably been there yourself off. And we used Facebook rooms, which was great cuz it would just made it super accessible for people to connect all the time.

00:05:06 - 00:10:02

And in theory, we'd love people to even connect more and more like one members. Like can we do a book club wage? Yeah, we'd love to do that. So like there's so many things we can do. So unfortunately rooms disappears with a thousand people and I think some of it is like the reality that Facebook groups get harder and harder manage part of the reason what we want to do with the standing Port is preserve that intimate setting that we've had in there. We knew that we were going to get bigger. We didn't know would come this fast. So we are going to have a members-only Facebook group now to do the rooms and we'll have a lot of Engagement. So as as long as you do the the lower-tier the $8 a month or $6 if you do annually, so it's like a cup of coffee and a bagel. If you do that, then you get access to all that too. So that is a change that we're making it wasn't necessarily A change that we planned on but it was kind of circumstantial the black Give the skies here is that it's going to give us a lot more flexibility. Yeah, and do we have any listeners who work on Facebook groups? We love to chat with you cuz we're still really unsure about the functions. We love to keep everything kind of contained to Facebook, but it's proving to be a little bit more challenging than we thought so anybody Facebook rooms their skills weird rules that it like good people you can invite people to talk anymore those Unwritten rules. Yeah, and it keeps changing. So that's where we're confused about. But anyways, go to dateable podcast, sounding board. We have a great. I mean I was so excited by the turnout of people just everyone is so genuine. I think that's the word that we keep throwing around. Like people are just like legit people I'd be friends with so yeah join the sounding board or not in there already dateable podcast sounding board and very supportive. Imagine having a bunch of strangers who are just rooting for you all the time. That is the phone number. Billing and these strangers eventually become friends, which is the magic of creating these communities. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine and she's like, it's kind of weird that I haven't met anyone new in the last year and I'm like, wow, I got so many new people so many and can I just say we do not intend I mean, obviously this is a nice by-product but it is so diverse Community a week. We are just so pleased by how diverse it is. This is like the most diverse group that I've ever seen. Yeah fantastic and you get like opinions. I think the diversity really comes did you get different perspectives, like different gender different age different life stage? Like there's so many different perspectives in there that makes you be like, oh maybe I should think about this at a different way or else someone that's like rooting for you and you're like, okay bike that instinct was right. Yeah, like one example, we were talking about divorces and how divorces are different done differently in every City, New Jersey. Every state every country so it's kind of neat to hear everybody's kind of experience or even if they haven't had experience but like how it's done differently and how that affects how you see divorce. Yeah, and also like everyone's like oh dating in my city is the worst and I think this definitely shows that like same issues apply everywhere just a little twist solutely but it's not issues. It's Dave is awesome. We just we can all come together to figure out how to make it awesome all the time and not be the local chamber of saying dating sucks. Cuz that's we don't think she likes dating can be really fun and exciting and I don't think our group does that I think that's actually has been another pleasant surprise. That's like one of our think both of us were a little like should we do this group is it just may be like people bitching all the time and has not been that at all. So yeah, nope, not at all. But I will bitch about it getting much darker out there. Usually when we record these I get really nice job. Learns with daylight savings great. I love getting that extra hour, but it also just shows that the days are getting shorter and Winter's coming although in San Francisco. Like winter doesn't really mean much but the days are getting shorter. That's for sure. So and with twenty-twenty and covet mean Halloween was just so different this past weekend. Honestly, I didn't even think of it. I like kind of forgot about how long you know Halloween is my favorite holiday Halloween. It just didn't even cross my mind this year. I think I've been so wrapped up in like the election and we'll talk about that this everything else that's going from the gals. But I took like haven't been thinking about it and I think I just I think I'm mentally blocked out that there's not going to be like major parties this year. I was actually surprised when some people were like, oh I am going to parties. I was like, I know I was really hesitant. So my boyfriend I went to like a secret rooftop party that was all outdoors and it was only 15 people limited and we all had to stay at our own tables so you can you log At like mingle really and I just I was curious.

00:10:02 - 00:15:07

I'm like, what would this be? Like? Yeah, and it was a very odd. So first of all, it was very odd because everyone's in a mask and their costume and some of the costumes masks. So like some people were like double masked it was like post-party know it was on top of a hotel that was not open. Okay that makes more sense. I was like, why would someone thought I have a house party will be like everyone needs to sit at a table away from you know, it was no they they had a deal with this hotel and they just opened up the rooftop and they're bar for us and everyone's costumes were you could tell it was something that they warned like five years ago. Yeah Halloween was such an afterthought this year. Everyone was dressed as a girl whatever they wore last year, whatever they could find their closet and my boyfriend I we have this we always like to dress as a family. So we were Tiger King. He's he was Joe Exotic wage. A guy was Carol Baskin are our dogs were a lion and a tiger so we we had a whole family thing going and I think we were the only ones maybe who thought about our costume off that were like twenty twenty appropriate. Everybody else was just there to socialize but the other observation I had was I think a lot of people hadn't been out in a really long time. So they were like to say forgot what their limits limits are. It comes to alcohol people were getting sloshed like puking all over the place puking the bathroom. We were out within like two hours like this is getting really ridiculous cuz I think we were like, oh my god. This is my chance to drink. I admit that I'm definitely a little hungover today. I did not celebrate Halloween per se but I like had dinner actually I had dinner plans for a while. It was a friend of mine's birthday and then she ended up going to New York, but we were like so the rest of us were like wow. Still go out. Anyway, you hijacked her believe they've already been all planning on getting together. So we were going to like we you know, like we explain why not. So we're like we might as well like yeah. So anyways, we just went out for dinner and we actually went super early cuz one of my friends with her baby came to and we also like there weren't a ton of reservations. So we thought were like, yeah, whatever. What else are we doing at 5, you know, you might as well go out in early. We we are the early bird special package. It was all good. It was like are they heated patio 3 but I'm going to tell you why did our 5 is actually quite dangerous is what I'm aware of going with this story may be time. We were young parents. Well, I don't know if my friend is a two-year-old. So it's kind of like she actually was like I would have preferred to go at like 6:37 like 6:30 a.m. There was nothing available some really practical to do it also, like it can get a little cold at night sometimes and I sat last night beautiful though. So it was like I was perfect night. So anyways, we went at 5 a.m. And we definitely like weird habits of drinks in general. I was like five of us it wasn't a big group the couple that has the kid they left after and then I went to a bar with the other two. I love I was actually Fifth Wheel in yet, but I'll go fuc doesn't matter. I'm like friends like I consider their like husband's like or husbands and boyfriends like good friends at this point. So I like doesn't even phase me so long I was the three of us went to a bar. We found the one bar on Chestnut Street at the marina that did not make you buy food. They only made you buy a dollar Chex Mix we just came from like a massive meal. So it's like really hard to like go out anyways, so we definitely had a budget like people were coming by like dressed up like people were a kid. Either eating out dressed up or they were like walking around and some people were just like kind of drunk in the streets. So yeah, we definitely commented but my friend that I was with her she gets so busy between like this is like her favorite holiday and she didn't give a like she it didn't faze her either and she literally was entering the costume contest fully. It doesn't blow our cover off. It's probably okay. She was entering the costume contest at her work and she literally used a photo of her like four years. I was so she didn't even get dressed up. She told me she thought oh and she's like, I mean, they're not going to know what were the rules know it's basically like the photo was taken at a party but it's just harder boyfriend against a wall. So just woke up there at like their house by themselves, but it was kind of funny to be fair. That's totally fair. I woke up with like a hangover. I was like, I I like haven't got out. We were out to like 11 with Jack. Pretty damn late nowadays you had dinner at 5, but the bar we went to was so cute.

00:15:07 - 00:20:10

They have like a piano man playing and the bar. It was reading grown not green off. I can never pronounce it. I have no idea but the guy was like saying that they stay open till 2, cuz now bars in San Francisco are open at 25% capacity to so nice thought it were like might as well sit outside and he's like, yeah gets a little crazy and we were like looking around at like 11:00 and we're like, we're like the only ones I was not crazy like other scale of 1 to 10. How crazy is it right. Now my God, it was it was definitely a different Halloween. We looked across the street and there was a beauty salon and there were like four girls like raging in their themselves like one of them one of them stairs are there. Oh did they were literally just like dancing at the hair salon, but I kind of love that cuz you don't have fomo during this time. You don't want to be around a hundred people wearing costumes. It's like you find your own source of happiness in your own quarantine group. I don't know. I think it would have made me too depressed to even do like a 15 per person Halloween celebration really my favorite holiday and I just decided to like Zone it out. This year was my solution even miss movies I did page which was exciting. So I mean by the time this is airing as people know we do our interest on Sunday evenings. So a little delayed but nerve-wracking so fucking nervous dog voted yet or about to I'm doing all my research tonight because I have Tuesday all day any research I've reserved that day. So I will be voting on Tuesday, but I am so nervous because this episode comes out after the results and I you know, it's like I wish I could fast forward to the future. I don't think they'll will get results that night anyways. Like I think that's going to be a week or so. That's my not scientific. Like no one's telling me this is just my gut rehab but we'll have we'll have a status. Yes. Yes, right that's nerve-wracking. So am I dropped off my ballot? It was super easy at SF by the way, like literally took me one second and I was like putting my ballot in and the woman behind it was like Julie like wage like this and it was one of our very early past guests. So shout out to Linda if you're listening and so cute. I did not recognize her. I mean she's wearing a mask. So it's already bought a track nicer. I've also haven't seen her in what like five years so well if she from season to yeah, she was really early really early really early. So yeah, but it was funny. I was just like oh God, but we also had a really fun appearance on KQED again. So we made our second appearance talking about the political the political experiment that we did last month. So if you haven't checked out that episode like definitely check it out. I know like some people felt like this is a lot it's triggering but it's so good and it's so interesting to hear people's dates that we don't give some BTS info on how business went down. Cuz the first time we were on KQED the entire process took 15 minutes tops, we were in and out Julie and I actually had reps written now cuz we're like we gotta be super prepared this time around we were like no, let's do bullet points cuz we want to sound more natural, you know, like speak more like like we're conversing the entire process. I think took like thirty five forty minutes, right? Yeah having to redo it wasn't because of us. It was because of technical difficulties, but we kept having to redo and retake from the top and by the time we did it like the fourth take we both had basically had our answers memorized at that point. So I think we sounded pretty damn good all set of dad. So it was totally worth it like when I went to dinner last name. I like all my friends are really cute. You sounded good on there. Like you guys don't even use filler words like one of my friends like husband's like how did you guys trained yourself? Not to use filler words. Like I don't know you've been doing this for a while still a work-in-progress. But yeah. Yeah. I thought overall I came out pretty good and it was just a super interesting story in general like they did a really good job with the production of like setting the scene in the whole thing. So definitely check it out. It's on our Instagram and it's on our YouTube also. Yeah. It's a really freaking great clip. I love it. It's so like I I love the people like KQED, you know, they're so great and they love dating stories. I know love to talk about dating. It's so funny. I think also this is definitely a video or topic that last time like last time we talked about covert Trends and it was like turbo relationships fail fast mentality of this was like deep into like not deep into politics. We won't go that far, but it was it was a little more meaty purse a dog. And controversial. Yeah, it's kind of like make sure you were saying the right thing a little more but yeah, yeah, it's a little bit more of a sensitive topic and speaking of sensitive topics.

00:20:10 - 00:25:04

I want to suck Ur opinion on this because this kind of came up during our sounding board after party in the happy hour rooms and we kind of talked about in the live show too, which is like red flags right away and we were talking about if you go on a date with someone who talks shit about their EX on the first date or early on in your relationship. Do you think that's a red flag? Yes, I think anything that is well. My instinct was yes now that I'm backing up. I don't ever want to make a judgment without knowing like I think like if someone got cheated on or something really bad happened, like I think there's certain circumstances that you're just not going to think fondly of your acts and that really has nothing to do with you. But I think I always think of like the sex of the city episode when like burger like starts like a swearing off his answering machine when his like X calls. Yes, fuck you and it's just there is something a little triggering about it. It makes it feel like they're not over it because I think like when you're over it, you just kind of feel like nothing towards it. I mean, I'd prefer someone to be like hating their acts and in love with their ex still but I think having someone more new truck roll would definitely be less of a red flag. Yeah, I agree. There's something kind of final turn off when someone talks shit about their ex when you didn't even log It's unsolicited. Yeah, it does show that they're not over it. They there are some unresolved issues and also it's like why why is there so much anger? Yeah. I just don't think you need a break that like its it doesn't look good know especially early on it's like really, I don't know. I used to think that maybe you should talk about your past relationships to a here where they have been starting to think that maybe we shouldn't be cuz I feel like the more and more I've done that on dates. It hasn't necessarily like led to like, I remember had like this amazing first date. You probably read this one you a and it was like we talked for hours about like everything under the sun actually a couple one guy goes to be after but then another guy like we have like the second date planned off and then it kind of just fizzled because I feel like we like got it all out. Like we literally had nothing to talk about the second date because we had talked about like everything under the sun and I think I don't know I think a Boor I'm thinking about it is just to like have more fun together and like share new experiences and like that stuff can come out like on like a little later on like maybe not like months in but at least like deep 345 like it doesn't need to be looked first couple. That's my opinion in an Ideal World. Yes, but in a very curious and nosy world of UA I need to know right away. I need to know what didn't work out with your ex. What was wrong with that relationship something I do really appreciate about my current boyfriend. And also remember the guy I dated before him who's also divorced and both of them have never talk shit about their Ex-Wives. They've only talked about their differences why they weren't seeing eye-to-eye on certain issues and I appreciate that because I think it's really easy for people talk shit about their ex-spouse and there's just so much intertwined and I know divorces are horrendous, but I remember going on a first date with a divorce guy birth. My current boyfriend and his you know, he he brought up the divorce himself, but his first words were my ex-wife is an amazing person and I really respect her. We just weren't seeing eye-to-eye about having kids and I I thought that was a really great way to frame their relationship. Really? Yeah. I need to know. Yeah, it's it's a tricky subject. I mean, I've also been in this situation maybe for me personally. It's a little different to like I've been in the situation where my ex is still in the picture, but I'm dating new people so have not totally over it and I'm not there right now, but I think maybe that's when I wanted to talk about it more. Maybe that's where I'm crossing a bridge of not wanting to talk about it as much cuz I'm fine with like being like accepting that this isn't my person but like I think if someone really wants to talk about their ex that might not be the best signed either. Yeah, maybe not about the X just about perjury Relationships when you learn from them and not so specifically about that one person. I do want to know when their last relationship was me too because I definitely have the situation where it ended like two weeks ago and they weren't officially divorced yet. So yeah, I think living together, but I don't know I think like when yeah when I hear I don't know six anything over six months.

00:25:04 - 00:30:03

I'm like, okay. I'm in the clear. Like if it's like six months is made it depends on how long they were dating but it's so depends if they were married. It's a whole different situation, but when it's like like three months earlier, it does make me question. Yeah. I like to I like to learn about what why it ended when did it end and why I'm a better feel than the previous person doesn't mean I'm a better person just means I'm a better fit. Although I don't know if anyone remembers the episode we did it was first eight and twelve years wage. My date that I went on the guy was referencing that was separated. I was his first day in twelve years coming out of a divorce and I had also ended things of my acts like a week before. Oh, yeah, we both came in. We just were not suited to be on that date. Basically. It was like one of those fun. Yeah. We were talking about like our exes the whole time I think about it. I mean it ended in a drunken makeup, but still it was a good one. Yeah, but we're like it was just if you took a look at that for the outside, you'd be like, this is not healthy. Like these people should be like wage talking about current day. We don't need to go back. There was two free free therapy for each other. Yeah. We're in that situation for a reason but this is all kind of related to our episode for this week. I kind of I'm always wondering if you can spot the red flags from the beginning and if you are able to what do you do with them, you know, and I I I know wage Hindsight is twenty-twenty and I've been in so many relationships where I'm like, wow, that was a really big red flag from the very beginning. I just chose to not right see it worth it. But in in our story today or interview today, our guests has a few stories where I think there were some red flags from the beginning of each month early and sometimes we just cuz we like someone so much. We just choose to not hear those red flags rights. So Lila Our Guest definitely. I mean this an Choi stemmed from us being like we want cuz back when we first started the podcast we did a lot of just flat-out dating stories and we did a call out of anyone have a good dating story and one of our mutual friends tagged her and was like, yeah, she has so many stories and I remember I got on the phone with her cuz we do a screener four guests and it was just like one after birth. Other so we finally rained it into two of them, but they were very interconnected. I think this whole theme of like lying and cheating and what cheating actually means and I know you you shared like one of your stories too and it's it's not trust when it's not trusting people like all that piece. So there's a lot of just you know, the the darker side I guess of relationships of when that trust really does fail. Well, I always hear those relationship stories when they end and one person says something like I didn't even know who he was but I'm like, oh, how do you you know, how do you know when you're not when you're in a relationship like that? How do you get bamboozled so much that when it ends you feel like you were dating a completely different person that just boggles my mind and his scares me a little bit that people are are capable of doing that. I mean, yeah, I think this was this was a good episode to dive into these Because obviously we like to focus on the butterflies and rainbows side of love and relationships, but you do need to be aware especially like as women to wear safety is concerned like I think and I mean with lying and cheating it's not just women. That's everyone. I think that stuff can really traumatize you and hold you back from future relationships. So I think this song is Leila though, she did take accountability when we talked to her and I think that's the first and foremost most important step because I think you actually open this entire thing up with the wife of what we do not just what others do and I think that is so important because if you just blame others, you don't realize when you are the common denominator and some factor and that just allows us to keep repeating and I do want to make this point, which is we recorded this episode a while ago, and we paused it because of covid-19 Cove It Off. Relevant episodes, but we had to bring it back because it's a it's a really great interview, but I did see Layla recently and she said that she's been working on her cellphone need a bit and doing a lot of introspection and personal development. So she's taking a dating Hiatus and after everything that's happened to her.

00:30:03 - 00:35:03

I think she realized she used to go a little bit deeper in herself to figure out why this is happening and how she can overcome these challenges. That's fantastic and I hope we have her back on the show after this like Breakthrough. Me too. I when I saw her she seemed like she was in a really great place. So I'm very excited for her before we get to this episode. We like to take a moment to thank our sponsor function of beauty. We always say there's no one-size-fits-all solution to dating because everyone so different well funny enough the same applies to Hair Care to we've all been there where a friend recommends a dog Shampoo, they're obsessed with and you try it and you just don't love it function of beauty is about to change all of that by formulating Hair Care specifically for you. How specific well, they have over 54 trillion possible ingredient combinations to make sure that the formula is unique as you Julie. You've had a chance to try their shampoo for a while. Now, do you see a girl? I love it. Like I feel like especially with someone that has naturally curly here. It is teamed it. And yeah, I think it's fantastic and I even have it saying function of dead because you can personalize it. Perfect. It's so cute. Your hair is looking shiny too. Well as the internet's top rated customized hair care product function of Beauty has over 40000 real Five Star reviews. So what are you waiting for go to function of beauty available to take your for part hair profile quiz and save 20% on your first order again go to function of beauty wage. Home slash dateable for 20% off and let them know you heard it about it from our show that's function of beauty. And with that said, let's hear it from Layla off our guest today. Her name is Layla. She's thirty years old. She lives in San Francisco, and she's originally from the Bay Area Bridge single and taking a dating sabbatical. I feel like we should take a survey of how many people who come on our show who are single but taking a dating sabbatical. It seems to be a trend how long has she has a sabbatical been for it's been for over 90 days 90 days. Is it a voluntary sabbatical? That's voluntary. Okay, it's good. It's good to have that refresh especially when you've had some crazy dating story on. How long is it going to be four in total? I guess until I find someone that I'm interested in dating right now. I just have no interest in dating. I feel like my dating energy is really cool. Pleaded find someone you're going to be interested in dating when you're when you're taking a dating sabbatical the really good question. Really drain. I think if you're drained, this is the best time to take a sabbatical because it's kind of like what's the point of even going if you're already feeling that drained energy and eventually you'll feel that urge again? Yeah, hopefully but when you were dating, I guess it happened to you, That's why you're here. I'm drained it. One of those would be crazy dating story that you want to tell us about. Yeah actually have to I'd like to share. Let's do it. Let's go for it. So for 8 and 1/2 months when I first moved to the city, I'm a I didn't really have a lot of friends and I made friends with a guy and we became really good friends. We eventually dated for 8 and 1/2 months. I would say four months into it. I have a call from him saying that if you know, it's an emergency he needs to talk to me right away and I'm like emergency. Yep. Like what can I do in terms of emergency? Like you should be calling nine-one-one. So anyway, I picked up the phone and it turns out he needs my help with something. So what he needs my help with is so for about the previous two weeks. He had a girl on Facebook ad him. She was Facebook friends with his family friend and his uncle and so he felt it was safe to add her. So he's the type of person that has everything listed on Facebook where he works mom's Facebook his dad's Facebook basically, so this girl ends up chatting with him for about two weeks basically checking in on him every single day flirting with him. Sorry messages and one day she randomly calls him and it's a about 10 to 15 second video of her walking into the shower and she's nude found obviously doing inappropriate things touching herself and they have never done that before they have never met before. She her Facebook says she does event planning and Singapore and she had just graduated a dog. You just looks like a normal girl, you know from Malaysian very cute Asian girl. So there's no audio in this video. So obviously he starts engaging possibly doing the same thing. So about 10 to 15 seconds. This is a video chat that they're doing without sound. So yeah, so there was a video no audio and they were texting on the side was a video through Facebook.

00:35:03 - 00:40:01

I'm not sure. Okay, so she filmed the video send him the video chatting on the side and seemed like it was a live video. Okay? Okay, so it's like a video cycle. I video chat video chat so it gets a little complicated because the video goes on for ten fifteen minutes. There's no audio they're texting on the side and then the call cuts out. She calls back and she continues to do whatever she's doing on the bed, you know touching herself and he's probably doing the same thing call ends a few days later. She must have just him and she says hey I have something to show you he's expecting like maybe like a cool picture or something like that and it Jeff. Ends up being a video of just him touching himself with his face everything and I don't know what was in it. I've never seen it. But basically it was enough to blackmail him for a 10K. I felt she sent him all her banking details Western Union. This is my bank account number send me 10 K or this is a list of people. I'm going to send the video too. And so since she had access to his Facebook page like his work or promised. My friends are on his wall. She compiled a list and threatens him with it. Oh my God, so did she actually know his cousin and like Uncle or did she just randomly friend them? I think she randomly funded them. Was it like a scheme to like get him or was he just like I have a friend. But anyways, you are dating him during this time shading him. Yeah. So for the next 24 hours you can she continue to threaten him saying things like I'm going to snap not going to delete it. She eventually dropped the price of 5K to 1K over the course of a game. Rockville though like that's like highly illegal, but that's another situation. Yeah, it's blackmail, but he was really panicking. He was asking me like should I just send her 5K? Otherwise she's not going to delete it and I was like wait, you're telling me you cheated on me, but you're telling me you need my help. Like I'm really confused here. Why is he asking you for help? Right like you would think he'd want to be hiding it from you directly. So he doesn't thought of friends and I guess there was no one he could talk to and so I was the only one that could help him and I was just really panicking for him. And so I just told him, you know, she already has a video. She's either going to be send the video or she's going to send the video and you lose 5K. What do you want to do? You know, it's out of your hands at this point. She's not going to put an extra effort if she's not going to gain anything from it. So he kind of freaks out thousands of police report puts up Google Alerts online, like if anything gets uploaded online under his name he'll get alerted for it. What were you thinking at this point? Where you like sympathizing with him? Are you reading off? Why have you been doing that? I was so shocked to be honest like everything. I've just told you guys he didn't even tell me right on the spot. Like it took me a course the course over a week for him to tell me because he had like obsolete details and he had Justified it in a way where it was like he was watching porn and not cheating but I think the difference between that is he didn't think she was a pornstar. He thought she was just like a regular girl and you've been hiding like two weeks of conversations, right me and then telling and then I don't think he would have told me if he wasn't going to be blackmailed and needed help like I get that it wasn't like a son who was physically with but that's like maybe if they're chatting every day for two weeks and then he's like being sexual with her. Yeah. I feel like that's cheating. I don't know why it's it's like if you know the first calls about your life, you're going to know what the second call is about when they called. Did they actually speak on the phone? They spoke there was no audio like not even like the shower one. That's weird. That's what I'm saying. I actually don't think home. Talking to a girl so his hypothesis red flag. No audience was a red flag pappas's was that it could have been like a man. Just replaying a recording with them lately Facebook account. Absolutely sure this yeah girl has no idea or image and more videos being used. Yeah. Wow. I mean he didn't do something like research on page forums and he found her on like a Malaysia scam Forum. So let's say she is a Malaysia. Let's say it is a real girl like the police don't like aren't able to do anything about I love curious how this impacted you guys though. Like, how did you you keep eating after did you like break up immediately? Like what was I quickly forgive people and it did take me a long time to find out all the details about this. It really broke my trust with him. Just thought that he could hide something like this and then asking for help and actually the second call he made was to his mom because he didn't know what to do. You know, it was really hard to gain my trust back after this even though it wasn't like real physical cheating off. Virtual cheating or yeah, how curious where you guys I we were definitely exclusive we were living together living together. Yeah, cause I was living at his place like every now and then I did stay over there over for like a few months straight, but we were just like really good friends. Like I just thought we had really good shots.

00:40:01 - 00:45:04

I had a great connection. How long were you guys dating before this happened for months? Okay, then how long did you guys stayed eight months in total weight? Actually we started in March and this happened in August. So five five months and then three months like how long did it take you like untangle all this to like end it it took me a month to really find out all the details. Okay honest and then he broke up with me the next month's saying that he needed to go find himself and he didn't feel like he was happy without me. Like it was almost like he was co-dependent and then he broke up with me to another two months later like a final breakup. Wow. Wow. Made you kind of keep going with him instead of ending in what I first found out about this video call. One of my girlfriends told me, you know, it's not a reflection on you. Like I was having all of these like body and life. I just saw a really insecure maybe Papa way I look like maybe I wasn't sexy enough. I wasn't pretty enough. I wasn't whatever enough she told me that people that fall for these kind of like I guess scam these scams or people that that fall for other girls that offer some kind of external validation or people that don't really feel good about themselves, right? They are they have a hole in them. They feel really insecure about themselves. So I kind of saw it as like, oh he has his own problem. He needs to work on I was really compassionate towards that wife stayed like fix them up. I couldn't let go of the connection. We had a new Ultimate lie. He wasn't a bad guy think he did make some bad decisions. I I'm a really forgiving person like I like I've changed a lot. So I figured he would what was the conclusion of this? What happened. The conclusion of it was she ended up blocking or deleting her account and then he just never heard from her. So she never blackmailed it. Yeah, she never blackmailed him again. But funny story is three of my other guy friends have actually been caught was so different girl but saying they're Mario the same scenario. They've been blackballed video one of my guy friends was going through a break-up. So I guess it was like easy for him to just you know, talk to a hot girl. I got just have a hot girl message you and want to talk to her one other guy at this happened to him a year ago another one, you know, same type of situation where the guys were just not feeling the best about themselves when it happens and all these women Asian. I don't know what they look like. Wow. So what's your other store have one pack? I'm starting to hide starting to see why you're at the dating sabbatical. Okay, I don't even know what I would do if I found my boyfriend in this kind of situation because there is incriminating video phone number. Is still incriminating video of him out there, who knows where it's going to end up where it's going to be. It's really scary. This person has all his information. Yeah, I think we really have to be careful on them. Never know who's going to use it against you. But honestly, I feel like even after Snapchat, you know after the whole dick pic culture. I feel like dick pics culture. I feel like we could have learned like a thing or two about like not showing your face. Oh, he showed his face and that's why if she had a black male because it was like his face and his private part. I feel like you know dick pics 101 like just show one or the other like all my friends, but I mean come on with a digital world, like right. Did you guys not take dick pics when you can't do both I'm struggling technology aspect of it may seem like she was sending a video and send a video back. Oh, no, it was a live video or I guess it could have been recording on her end, but she was filming him. I mean that makes sense cuz then it wouldn't have hurt them. Video, right cuz like if it was a video of both of them then she would be recording herself. Yeah, but if this isn't even a real woman, who knows it's what they always just a full video of just him touching himself. Yeah, and I don't think she would of had enough to Blackmail as his face wasn't in there. Right? Yeah, and we will get right back to that thought after this message from our sponsor. Well this year hasn't been totally smooth. At least we can look smooth Dodge Jeep Ram and offers a collection of awesome shape where that not only smoothed you out but also feels comfortable and I know that when I feel comfortable in my clothes, I also feel empowered actually from a.com. I can I find the perfect shapewear ranging from tanks shorts body suits and more Julie and I recently got some matching Lounge wear leggings and they are so comfy and also just smoothed you out in all the right places. It's my go to see you at home attire and unlike leading Brands as she permit you can get up to 60 to 70% off shapewear with shape remains ongoing discounts plus an extra 10% off your order just by being a listener of them. Show but you must go to shapermint.com and use the code dateable that's shapermint be able to get our exclusive listener add a discount of an extra 10% off your order. Again, that's shapermint.com code. Okay, let's get back to this convo.

00:45:04 - 00:50:00

So what's your other story? Oh my other story shortly after this whole situation. There's a whole breakup happen. I start dating a guy. He's really well-connected while known in the city. Yeah. He has a great job. It's a friend. So I started dating him. I didn't feel like anything could really go wrong things off really quickly. So within two weeks, he told me he wanted to be in a relationship with me, but just the fact that it just moves so quickly like I think on the third day he had gifted me an iPhone for Christmas. Yeah. Yep. Oh and he was like I want to talk to you. I want to FaceTime you you know, he was travelling. He was like he just really want to keep in touch for about 4 days like, you know, I started off having like my sixth sense telling me that I couldn't trust him and I told him like I thought I couldn't trust him. He got really upset with me for four days. We didn't speak. What wasn't what I don't make you feel this way. I don't know. It was just something that I have felt really strongly. Like I felt like a guy can't move that quickly and fall for you so quickly and for it to be real or for it to be healthy or normal. It just didn't feel authentic just didn't feel authentic. I mean, maybe I'm jaded from my previous relationship or whatever but I feel like my sixth sense is pretty strong about it at the end of the four days off. He came back to me and told me like he really wants to work things out he wants her and my trust whatever that is and I was like, okay and I was like, well, did you sleep with anybody doing this for days? He's like no way Jose. And I was like, you know, I'm just asking you like I wouldn't consider as cheating. Like I'm just asking you for the sake of right. I just want to be healthy STD wise and and he was like no I have that. He's like I always use a condom unless they're my often and I was like, okay, but at about like if he had slept with anyone for another two times and again, he said no all on all of them each time. So we started dating again one night. I felt so uncomfortable. I got out of bed. I went to check his iPad and he had given me his passcode twice because he knew I didn't trust him for whatever reason I had never smoked before but I figured life if you're going to give me your passcode might as well. Just look. Why do you think you why do you feel the need like do you feel comfortable? Like I remember it was like 12:30 a.m. Like something was like not comfortable in my stomach. So I got out of bed to do it, but, you know prior to checking his iPad. I had noticed that he had security cameras in all like in every single room of his apartment and that really dead. Scared me because I asked him I said, you know, you never told me your security cameras. I don't know what footage you have of me and he told me he would take them all down and he doesn't have any footage and it's just for security purposes and I was like, okay, so I trusted him. So when I did go look through his iPad I found out you know, there were some live here and there about like who dogs at his dog while he was out of town and turned out to be a girl he's off today like just some really minor lies, but I'm just so sensitive to like lying that I was so upset with him. I didn't I've left his apartment immediately. He didn't know what I knew. So the next morning he text me he's like, okay, like I'm sorry. I lied to you. I slept with who and who I did this and this whatever whatever so it was almost like he came to me even though I you didn't even find that information even find that information. I had no idea. I was really upset that. He actually had stuff with someone during the four days and I was dead. Why would you lie to me about this? And he honestly just felt like or I wouldn't date him if I had found out he asked me. How did you find out about that? He lied and I wouldn't tell him so for about a week we didn't speak and then he sends me a black and white footage of me walking up to his iPad checking his iPad just to like prove me wrong and that just freaked me out because I was like, wow, so the security cameras weren't down the whole time at least not all of them were down at that time. I was freaking out so much. I called two lawyers. I was like, I don't know what footage as of me. You know, maybe I'm walking around without pants on or maybe we're doing stuff on the couch or like something and I don't know and he's he I don't know. I don't really know this guy that well, so I don't know what he's going to do with voltage. How long have you been dating at this point? I would say three weeks. Okay. Wow. Yeah just three weeks. So so I called the two loyalty blackmailing you off. The time the guy was telling me exactly the tables have turned and so I spoke with the two lawyers and they told me I basically don't have a case unless he chooses to upload this contract online or shares it with someone without my consent. And since it's filmed on public property. I don't have any I don't have a case public property isn't at his house.

00:50:00 - 00:55:01

Yeah, I'm sorry private property. Okay, I believe okay. Okay. Yeah, sorry and then so he just ended up like apologizing so much and I let him know I was like, you know, you basically lied to me about the security cameras being off and then lie to me about other things that I found out and then you're trying to prove to me that I look through your iPad. I was like, you know, this is a lot of drama, but he really tried to apologize. He had like way out to one of my girlfriends. Hey, I don't know what to do. One of my girlfriends. She did this behind my back. She was like, she sent him a list of things that he could buy me that would make me feel better and it was a really dead. List of things he ended up gifting me a pair of like really nice to me choose or about like nine hundred dollars. Wow hair just to like apologize for everything. And so, you know, like I'm a get a really forgiving person but I forgave him we continue to date. Did he ever tell you when he slept with someone else like was it in that four days when you broke up for days? Okay, so you're technically didn't cheat on you but he wasn't up front that he did sleep with other people. Yeah, and you would ask that explicitly. Yeah. I mean, I don't consider as cheating. I told him like, you know, I don't think this cheating. I just need to know if lying right applying the whole security cameras thing was lying. It's just yeah, so when you gave him more chances at what point did you say this is the final straw no more chances to be honest. He broke up with me because moving forward. He want to work things out. I was trying to give him a chance but I just could not trust anything that came out of his mouth. He just got so frustrated that I had all these trust issues that I wasn't moving forward that off. The past behind me that he was just like this needs to end. I've been there before in the sense of giving people more chances. Why do you think you feel compelled to give people this many chances. I think I have fucked up a lot in I've messed up a lot in relationships in the past. And so I am really grateful for those chances like for me to have become this person. I am today and seem to be as the best person that I can be. So I like to get people that same Grace. Yeah. There's there's on one hand. Yes. If you feel like you have a great connection. You don't want to give it up right away. You feel like you can work things out but in this particular story, you didn't trust him from the very beginning. Yeah. So what made you think you were going to trust them later? I think I really wanted it to work out. I looking back. I really thought he was going to change and I think that's the problem. Yeah, we all think the guys going to change. But yeah, I think it was maybe I had gotten out of something that was bad previously and I was like, well, you know, maybe this makes guy might be better if I could, you know put in more effort if I gave him more chances and I think it's just that hope that I had have you ever dated someone that just super nice truck. You have heard of that go to nice. Do you like whether a little balance of both and that's kind of hard to find so it's boring. Yeah. Yeah. I I think you're definitely picking the the wrong guys here. So that's why I'm definitely doing like the three-month sabbatical. I think that's great. Yeah, I guess like back to the snooping part cuz I feel like that's also like have is that something you've ever done before was this kind of like the first time that you've done something like that. I've only done it because I knew his passcode because wage Given it to me twice before rights issues. But do you think it's it's I mean underlying you didn't trust him and that's why you did it already put my finger on it was just like this feeling that I had I just had no idea off and I honestly I'm just kind of like, why would you give me a pass code? If it's you're going to have some dirt on there like clean it up before you give me a put your passcode you could also argue. Like if he was going to give you his passcode you could trust him. Yeah. And also if he's going to give you your his passcode, why would he fault you for looking? I don't know. I just feel like the second you turn to snooping that's like a huge red flag that things are already in bad place. Yeah. I mean you're never going to find anything great. You know, like even you said you didn't even find anything. Yeah, honestly write all that stuff was just little lies again really it didn't really matter if you have found naked photos or if you have found conversations that were steamy another girl that's another case. But the minute you sleep you're going to find something you don't like even if it really doesn't matter. Our relationship cuz we all hide stuff on our phones that aren't too bad people search or something. But then also the Google. You don't want people seeing I'm not going to feel about it. I have chlamydia know if you guys are searching when you bring it up.

00:55:01 - 01:00:05

I just I think it's a Google search. I haven't like, I don't know. I think also it's like you then know that you snooped also, you know already this weird, like disconnect of like trust has been broken, even if they never found out that you Snoop. Yes, you know that. Yeah. Yeah speaking from experience once you Snoop you can go back to sing off. The relationship will never be back to normal cuz you are now equipped with information that you're you were not meant to see speaking from experience, huh experience the the boy. And I had when I was living in Beijing same as you for some reason one night, I just woke up and I thought something's not right. I don't know what it was. I can't even pinpoint. It was like an exam like an event that happened and he had given me his Bat Pasco of multiple times for me to look up an address or whatever. So I knew it I went on his phone and of course I came across all these conversations. He had not only with women on a dating app, but also with prostitutes and I remember just like going down this rabbit hole and he like a half of it was an English half of it was in Chinese and I remember screenshotting the Chinese parts and sending it to my friend translate cuz I can read everything and but I could read numbers I could read off. You know, how much more you for the night that I can read and the negotiation back and forth was just numerical numbers and I I couldn't stop and I think at like 3 a.m. Miley said I can't keep going cuz there's just going to be more what do you do with this information at this point? I there's nothing you can do like that relationship will never be back to normal know and like you I gave him a chance always the downfall. I gave it a chance to come clean at first. He would lie didn't deny them saying and then I showed him screenshots that I have found and then he was like, oh market research like, uh, you know like this development as do market research for some my clients who may be interested in prostitutes or my God what I'm like, yeah, you really need to do that on a dating app. And then finally he gave in and said, yes, I've had inappropriate conversations. He didn't he didn't admit to any sort of taking like taking action or seeing these people in real life, but how can you trust someone from there even a phone number? This conversation. I told them I'm willing to forgive you. We can work on this if we go to therapy what what not and he's the one that couldn't get over it cuz he said I feel like you've stripped me of my masculine for one because now you know all this dirt about me and to I'm so ashamed that I can't even look at you. Yeah, it's interesting in both your instances. They were the ones that like ended it off because really fascinating they were caught red-handed you can't back right but the problem the the question I have for both of these men is why did you not clean up your Track Em you look exactly actually going to do it. I was so confused and it blew my mind, but he gave me his his phone is out in the open and he gave me his passcode. I can easily go on at anytime I want. Yeah and still he had all these Pages open. Yeah. Oh I couldn't think that it's like they're almost like saying like, oh, I'll give you the pass. Word and then in that instance being like Oh, if I like feel like I'm being so open they're not going to take me up on it. Yeah, like you're a psychology. Yeah. I mean, it's either reverse psychology or I think some of them just want to be caught cuz some of these men like the drama they like their woman to be jealous, you know that, you know, there's other people in competition is some sick mail off. You said it yourself like you felt like there was a lot of drama. I mean even from like initially like week one it just coming so hot and heavy I think it's tough because like you do hear those like instances where someone met their life soul mate and aside and it was a great marriage and everything's perfect. But then there's also these like super hot and heavy like initial ones. I think sometimes can be red flags. I agree with you. It's a balancing act right on one hand. We're always like I want to I want a commitment and I want him to want to be committed to me and then on the other hand, we're like, whoa, he wants commitment wage. Early, right do I trust this guy to even buy it? Well, it's definitely a balance like I think like you want to feel like though that they know you and they're committing to you and not like after a while. It's like to know me not really like unless you would just like the most amazing connection all the stuff like I want to say never happens, but I think sometimes when people move so fast, it doesn't feel authentic exactly.

01:00:05 - 01:05:01

Yeah, but I think it's not just men it's everybody people will tell you what you want to hear. Yeah, they will say everything that you say you want to hear in order to get you in bed or just get to spend time with you but we all have a pretty good sense of when they're being real and when they're being not real right ma'am. So I think we should we should just follow our gut instinct and it's tough because like I said, I've been there before when I've wanted to give people the opportunity want to give them a chance phone number. To make them change and then it's like you learn from experience that like you just can't do that. Right and it's like I think there's a line like everything else we're saying is like you don't necessarily want to cut someone off right away, like maybe they made a mistake. Maybe they're willing to learn from it. But I think there's a certain point where if you're feeling like you don't trust someone or is only so many chances you can give to yeah. Yeah when I had a Palm Beach my ex-boyfriend about the situation I didn't want it to be an interrogation but it ended up being an interrogation at the end of it. All. He said all I really want is attention and these women are giving me the attention and that's when I thought that is a root of our problem is like he doesn't file as like classic movie as it feel happy with himself off or happy with you is what turned it on. Yes, but also it made me feel like okay, obviously this actually isn't about me it's about his insecurities what he's writing through iCloud. Help him out of this exactly and it's I can't take this personally, but between the two stories is just told I'm kind of thinking about which scenario is better or worse and I would almost say like the the first one is a little bit better because again, this woman is giving him attention. He didn't go out and seek it out. And if it's just handed to you on a platter. Okay, maybe sometimes you act on it. Yeah, they never met in person. It is sort of like virtual porn. I mean eventually we're going to have the airport is going to be an every household. So it's sort of similar to that and if there's simulated in other ways as long as it doesn't hinder your relationship, but in the second situation Not only was there lying in betrayal, but it it bled into your relationship and that's when it becomes detrimental. I don't know I think there's both I mean there's like there's a theme of lying on both of these that I see that's like that's the part. I think that would be really hard to like get a job. Just like even the first guy like playing a sense of like betrayal and weirdness. And that one is July about though. He just kept the whole thing for me. I mean, he was basically developing like emotional relationship with what he thought was the normal girl and then the whole video calls to of the calls and then I actually never heard it. I've never heard of any of this until he asked me for help when she was right. Well, you probably would never have heard about it. I mean that's the thing is like but would if he had hypothetically come to you and been like I met this girl online and we like have sexual encounters of our video like wage would you feel like what the fuck would probably I mean, I don't think he would be comfortable with me doing it. So that's where I feel like I should draw the line. Well, yeah, I mean, that's why like, I feel like there's so many people that like kind of how like ethical non-monogamy cuz the whole benefit of that is that you're being honest with the person I think in a way that's the part that like Hurts the Most with this stuff. Is that like someone like going behave Our back like you think about like your boyfriend and you're spending time and then you're like wait there at home, like doing video like sex chatting with other person like if feels like a betrayal, yeah, have you guys watched that episode of Black Mirror which one valve virtual reality? I don't think so. Okay. So it's all briefly talked about it. But I think it poses a lot of interesting questions is these two guys who are straight and they are college friends runs from college and they reconnected years later and then there's this new virtual reality game where you put a chip on you and then it transforms you into this virtual world. And then you click on this Avatar. Right? So one of them becomes is female one of them becomes as male Avatar in the beginning they start playing this game virtually and they start fighting like Street Fighter style and it's very easy like you're in the middle of a video game and then it became sexual. Okay, so they're in this virtual world and there's a hot girl hot guy and they're getting on there having sex you see them really getting into it off. Snap out of the game and they both feel like am I gay and one of them is married and he's thinking am I cheating on my wife interests? They keep going back to this virtual world to have this hot sex obviously, nothing's happening in the real world. Right and the end of this episode. I'm sorry. If this is a spoiler they finally decide to meet in real life. Oh see if this is a real thing.

01:05:01 - 01:10:27

Like am I in love with this person if I see them in real life and they kiss each other and there's nothing it's a very interesting world we live in is that this fantasy this virtual world right and wrong with my ex boyfriend. He said, I don't think anything. I do online that's virtual as long as is not in person. I don't consider that cheating and that goes back to the question of when you have a relationship. You should salvage sales and boundaries of what you consider cheating. It doesn't matter if they don't consider cheating if you consider cheating, it's cheap. I think that's the part where there was a disconnect with that first one as a heated necessarily think he was doing something wrong. But you did not feel the same. Right but you didn't have that conversation in the beginning. Yeah, right so he could argue. Well, I didn't do anything in real life. So I don't write down this cheating. So maybe a question for both of you. Like how did you kind of like break out of this mold of people or is it something for you Maria that you're still like actively doing in this dating sapata ago. How do I break out of the mold? I don't know. I mean, I think there's I'm not obviously not blaming you in any way but like there is always a common denominator. That is yourself. Right? Sure. I'm not saying that you deserve any of this one way back later absolutely. Do not think that but like, yes, you can always blame other people and a lot of it was their wrongdoing but then there's always the side of like what why am I picking these people? Why am I staying in this as long as I'm staying that like comes down to you to actually like make a change that's better for you. What are your thoughts on that? I have thought about this many times. Do see myself as a common denominator. I feel like a lot of the guys that I pick end up having like really low self-esteem weather easily tempted by women virtually or physically and I think it's because I don't know I like helping people so it's some way maybe I have a savior complex. Maybe I seek projects to work on or maybe I have low self-esteem. Maybe I give them so many chances because I don't want to lose them because I have low self-esteem. Or maybe I maybe I'm a little bit more maternal and I want to help them. I have thought about this a lot of interesting. I I knew exactly where I went wrong was that I fell for someone who's extremely slick from the very beginning. Yeah, and you kind of know when someone's soul to you who is so generous with you in the beginning without any sort of like established connection yet. That's when you should start questioning. Why is this? Why is this happening? And my mom always says if he's dead, This with you. Yeah easily do this with other women cuz he knows this is a Formula he can follow. Yeah, like with my ex-boyfriend on our first it wasn't even a formal date, but we were hanging out and that night. He said let's go to this other City flew me first class. We use other City spend the weekend went shopping had Grand meals and she came back that was like our first non official date and that's when we started dating and we moved in a month later. Wow, I'm always sceptical of the super-slick guys, but you know, like part of you you would want to believe in that fairy tale like this isn't Prince sweeping me off my feet on a first-class airplane, right you want to give in and and just surrender to that is nice to have that ignorance and just say this is lovely and there's bask in that. Yeah that you also gotta wake up to reality and say this is not sustainable. I'm just going to enjoy birth. Or what it is but it's not a relationship. Well, it sounds like you had that to like the guy was getting you like $900 Jimmy choos. Yeah iPhone like people guys with low self-esteem. Well always cross section. They will always use gifts and money to buy that back. So he has a little bit more of like an like a Taiwanese tendency. I feel like there's a little bit floppy in some ways and I thought guys in Asia their love language is mostly to buy women's gift. Yeah. Well, I always thought well, maybe that's just a floppy side of him. Right? I could be it could have been both but I had a lot like I did not receive more gifts than those who think it's a tough though, cuz then like you said earlier like I'm not attracted to like the nicer guys or like I get bored with them and it's like a lot of times they can't even get off the ground because they're not like doing these grand gestures, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's such a catch-twenty-two. I think you can be a good person to have an edge to you like have like be calm. Sit in and I think it's right card balance of like not being an asshole or being the guy that gets stuffed all over. Yeah, I mean all of this is like a balance and I think it's like a balance for like women and people took us in the situation to like want to be treated like really well, but also recognize when things are a little too good to be true. Yeah and also you can't save anyone know you can change anyone you can save and I think that was one of the most freeing oh my Epiphany is of my mid-twenties to know that I do not have the power to change or save anyone off and then you can just date freely in a way that doesn't have any you would take no responsibility right? I'll be responsibility, right? That's a tough lesson, but I just a total loss.

01:10:27 - 01:15:01

Yeah. I've been there as well and it's like especially like if someone was saying they are a certain way or like don't want a relationship. You definitely can't change the that stuff either not even just like personality job. Everything and the line thing. I want to talk about the lying a little bit. I do feel like once you let someone lie a few times then they'll just keep lying. It's kinda like, I don't know I think about my dog Mojo if I you know, you have to discipline them all the time every time I give him a treat I have to make him sit and hold out his hand for a high-five right back. If I let him not do it a few times that he knows that one out of three times he can get away with it. And then it just creates this Behavior. He knows that one or three times a month will still give me a treat even I don't sit and hold out my my paw. So I think it's the same in relationships. If you let these little things slide and show your partner that you're okay with it to a certain extent then they're just going to know that they can keep getting away with it. Yeah, I think it's human nature and it's like valuing yourself to to be like, I'm not here to get like why didn't walk doll. Yeah, sticking to your to your dignity. Yeah, and you do wish I think like you said like I just woke up in the middle of the night and I didn't feel good. Yeah, that is nice. I couldn't put my finger on it was weird. I don't know what that is. But once you start feeling that in a relationship the first thing to do is not to Snoop but to get the fuck out. I don't know. I just feel like if an intuition kicks in you've got to get out of the situation first be alone for a day or two collect your thoughts kind of be a curious about why you're feeling that way and then come back to your partner Express what you're feeling gave him an opportunity to tell you before you find out for yourself. Yeah. It's such a tough one too. Cuz you're like, oh my reading too much into this like maybe my intuitions off and like you start questioning yourself wage, but I feel like I don't know looking back and like every relationship when things like Turned I like felt it and it's like they start to justify it and it's like no like I was right from what I thought This is something I've really learned from all the dating coach videos that I've watched of other people as women, we're told by media and sometimes by society that we make shit up from thin air that we're just like work creating drama out of nothing. So it makes us question our own intuition cuz we start thinking I might overthinking this I'm I'm making this up on a dating coach said ones in her dating video. She said it doesn't matter what you're thinking is made up or not. Your feelings are real. If you're feeling bad if you're feeling uncomfortable. If you're feeling angered though. Your feelings are true. That's your truth. So that's what you should act upon. It's not so much like whether you're making should up your life feelings are real. Good point cashier do some take away so much to unpack here takeaways. I mean, I think first and foremost, like don't show your face and your junk right off. Jake picks little one big bags of 101 actually just don't show your face like don't know and can no one can say that to you know, yeah unless if you have like a very specific tattoo off of your first pet, I mean, it's named your dick. Yeah. I mean it's tough because it's like you want to trust people inherently and like I think there's some signs like maybe the fact that like, there's no audio and the video that's a red flag. Right but like in theory anyone could like like they could take your text messages or like it could be someone that you had been dating for like years in theory like anything that's a Ridenour on camera, which is terrifying. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's still illegal in blackmail to do that. So like if someone does try to Blackmail you can wage all that out to yeah, but yeah, it is a scary world the digital side that people have so much of this potentially use against you in some way. Yeah. Absolutely. You said something. I was really great job. Where you said he wouldn't like it if I did this so I think every time you think what you're doing is not so bad. You know, you're like, it's the gray area. Think about how would I feel right partner doing this how you feel? Could they interpret it a different way like we talked about like everyone has a different definition of cheating. Yes.

01:15:01 - 01:20:03

Yes have to be aligned that I think the other one is listening to your gut. Yes, not like maybe one or two chances Max and then it just you can't keep doing it. Right. It's like there's only so many chances. Like I know we want people to succeed and do the best but it's also like the end of the day doing what's right for you and preserving that dignity is like the most important thing and know that snooping is opening Pandora's Box. I think those of us who Snoop are looking for ammunition, you're not actually looking for evidence to prove you wrong. You're looking for evidence to prove right? You're not going to be like I'm looking for innocent message. That don't mean anything though. You're looking for ammunition. You're looking through all the photo albums. You're looking through emails from 2015. I don't know but you're looking for something to piss you off. So easy if that's your intention already. Just don't do it. Right it's not going to make you feel any better. And if you feel the need to Snoop that's that's already in the usual. We have six flag number one. Do you have any takeaways definitely be very careful with whom you date? Like someone can be so normal in the community and not have so many friends and I think people are normal when they people want a one person when they make friends and there another person when they're dating you they're two different sides of a person and I think no girl is really going to show you a private parts like for free like on the fence right free lunch or tacos interesting that point you just made too though. Sometimes we're drawn to this like huge. If someone it sounds like with the second guy there was definitely an image that he had like a life. He was giving you and all that and in a way it's like I want it to work. So I'm going to like look past some of this stuff but like there's a time when that's just like not going to be enough to have that image. Like if you really just don't trust someone it's like, where do you go from there? Yeah. I think it just takes a long time to get to know someone they takes a long time to get to know someone which is fine, but it doesn't take long to know if someone's authentic or not and I think we just have to act upon it instead of trying to mold someone into some something that they are not cuz we're just trying to sell ourselves in some sort of fantasy. It never works out that way now we have time for a quick question actually do okay. This comes from Quinton. I recently caught a girlfriend snooping through my phone. I have nothing to hide and it came off as invasive of my privacy in that. She didn't trust me. She's begging me to forgive her, but I just don't trust her now. How can we move forward dog? Our relationship doomed cool to find anything. Yeah, that's a major question. And he said that he has nothing to hide. We did not hear from her. I think as a boyfriend, he should be wondering why he has given her a reason or healing for her to not trust him. Right? And I think as we discussed like she maybe it's best that she doesn't Snoop in like just talk to him. Yeah, she has any insecurities. So I mean, it sounds like the damage has been done. I think the best thing for them now would be to have a conversation of like why what drove you to Snoop and maybe with something he did that he made her feel a certain way. Maybe it wasn't even intentional or maybe it's from her past. Like I've been with a slew of men that have made me feel insecure given me a reason to not trust and I see action to you and then like having that and seeing what comes from that conversation and then like that can help determine how you move forward. Yeah. I think those are the moments where a couple can make to dispatch Oceans one is you get out, you know at that point maybe there's just no turning back or another. Another option is you face a music. You have a coming to Jesus moment and say what are the things that you think I should know right now? Let's just put it all out on the table. What are some things that if I found on your phone right that you would not be comfortable with let's just let's just share. Yeah, and let's make this rule for the next hour. We're going to reveal all these things about ourselves. And after this our we move forward we forget about it all and then we just move forward just jump it all out now and then maybe that's a great way to start with a clean slate and say this is a brand new relationship. Now, let's just move forward because there really is no like what both tried to do was a you take it from where I left off and try to build from there. It doesn't work like that because your foundations already rotten you have to build a foundation again from the ground up, right? Yeah. That's a great approach because if he really has no way Jose. To hide then it's like let's just air out here enough. Yeah, every little thing that I think could bother you. I will tell you right now a lot of Quentin luck with that tell us luck with that. Tell us how it goes. And if you want to be set up with Layla nice guy that has a little bit of an edge that's gonna not do this shit.

01:20:03 - 01:23:44

You have what a few more weeks before you're off your sabbatical naturally past 90 days already. Have you done a big dating sabbatical before? No, I think it's just great because I feel like when I got really burnt out with dating I did like a 6-month stating sabbatical. I just focused on myself focused on like I was starting a business at the time like really just loving life friends and life and just like it replenishes you in a way that like sets you up to be your best self. So when you can meet someone you're attracting someone that's good for you not someone that isn't and it's dead. Looking for a place of desperation. So I think it's a great thing that you're in this sabbatical right now. Yeah. Yeah. Why not right. It's about you. You're dating yourself. That's what I always say pag dating sabbatical. You're still dating yourself. So yeah dating I will say we had a semi Mentor but we had kind of know saying we had last season chut Marni Battista who was kind of is a dating coach. It's been around forever and during that dating sabbatical of mine was saying that like she was so ahead of her time that she had like scanned drives, right? But like I was doing work. It wasn't like I was just like sitting and ignoring myself and I was looking at like what is the root of what is happening? I am the common denominator. What is going on? And how can I do like, how can I take accountability to like put myself in like the best position so I think it's important to take that sabbatical to do that work and not just ignore wage. Either yeah. Yeah, awesome anything else any parting parting advice for anyone watch out for the scam that's going around. It's affected like four people that I know so far ever since then I just wanted to do a public service announcement to help everyone and everybody try and deal with your own issues before dating. Otherwise, yeah hurts everybody. I really want to know if you've been hit by this scam before you've come even in some clothes box imitate to it. I would love to hear from you cuz maybe we can catch these people cuz like I don't know I love playing this game. I'm going to find this old fat man who's on the other side of these videos. Innocent girls have no idea. They're the ones the face of the scam. That's so sad. Take pic 101 off. Okay, we're going to wrap this up. Thank you so much for telling us your stories. I'm sure you have more but these these two were somewhat related in a way because they happened one thing after another I can totally see why you're on a database available after that shebang to wrap this up stayed stable want to continue the conversation first follow us on Instagram Facebook and Twitter with a handle at dateable podcast tagged as in any post with a hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcast, there. You'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y Series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. We're also downloadable for free on Spotify Apple podcast Google Play Over cast Stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.