Season 10 Episode 3: PHD in Mansplaining

00:00:00 - 00:05:07

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Welcome to another episode of dateable. A show all about modern day. I know we've all been on dates where you are on a date with someone but then you're like are you on a date with me. 'cause you're talking at me to me. God Yeah I can. I can definitely recall a few those where Kinda find myself to sitting there thinking. Am I even here an existing? I date Kinda recently where I was like. I'm going to do to rule. This is the new rule that I've learned from data ball which is good. Yes agreed because sometimes people nervous at the beginning this guy did not ask me a single thing until we are ready to third-ranking at that point of I can't do this study now. Yeah like it's really topping on a date like that because it doesn't feel like a conversation just feels like someone wants to get their story out and yes it's very much one sided in. It's I feel like you and I are even more sensitive to it because when we interview guests for a podcast we are the ones trying to get as much information from them so it is one sided so when you feel that way on a date then you feel like way. Is this a podcast recording? Because this shouldn't be like this before we get to her story. I guess I should explain is something to every one. Have you heard the term man's planing well it's defined as the explanation of something by a man typically to a woman in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing or another definition. That was found was when a man condescendingly. Explain something to you in a manner that suggests you can't possibly know what he's talking about. I think there's woman splitting to. It's just this idea of being on a date with someone who just constantly talks at you. Who doesn't show interest or curiosity who you are. Who has a message they just want to get across in? You feel like you're just on a date with your interchangeable. You could be anybody ray. Just want to talk to someone there on the stage. Basically there are performing. They have an agenda. Yeah it's one of those things with data it's like one you don't think of it as the bad deal like link of the more date catfish in you like leaving in the middle of a date those are like the horror story but I think actually some of the ones where you just feel like Kinda disrespected. Those actually are pretty bad too. But I think there's always just the way to think about it with our guest today that we have that mindy she kind of shared this as the manslu innings story in a definitely was man spinning in a sense. But I think what you just said. The term women's living manslaughter. Whatever it is not overused. But it's kind of a catchall Moore a lot of things. Yeah it's disrespect writing a Douche bag on a date. But you're right Juliet's we don't get these stories all the time in our email. Inbox being a dating horror story. Because these are the dates you tend to just forget. Yeah WanNA think about them. You don't remember them you probably don't you remember the conversation because it was just. The conversation was so bad but I'm glad at a conference presentations. Powerpoint fly. Every big would be amazing. Kids love police. Do that free presentation. Hey Nice to meet you so this is me without your slides society with sly number wide. What I'm looking for. Here's my linked. Okay this is my resume here all the gift fees straight how I feel right now. Fortunately I can actually see doing that but no that's not. The point of this episode is the date should be a conversation which means a back and forth discussion. Also just that common curiosity and respect to learn about each other. Our guest today experienced something quite the opposite on a topic that really is calls for a lot of conversation discussion. It's just so interesting that he had to only talk about his side. But what is so interesting? Is I bet you anything Julie that he walked away from the state to give us the best day? I think everyone that has that one sided the one date.

00:05:07 - 00:10:03

I had like the guy was ready to go around the rail key there billy did not realize that like he hadn't asked me anything and I think it's like because we talk about this on the episode to there's a correlation of the amount Utah you're heard versus Yup. That's how good you feel about a conversation in. That's why I think why people feel like these states aren't good because they're not feeling hurt. Yeah they're not part of it so it's the opposite. They're having the best date ever. How can people walk away feeling so different? Well he's here to tell us she is She's been in San Francisco for eight years or originally from Orange County. She's twenty nine years old single actively going on dates with people who man slain also looking up and having fun and not with people advance flint. And now I love her little two to three sentence. Summary of her story or topic is about because we have all of our guests fill out a form and she said. Our topic is about homeless by choice. Phd man's planer crashes bed Split A. Oh my God I love it love it. I think they're like okay. We can bitch about bad dates and I think the point of dateable is like. How do we overcome this right? We can't control someone showing up and just spewing out their life story Razaleigh by. It's like how do you react to it so I think we got some good ways to deal with the situation in this episode. So and maybe this'll be a good episode for all of you to recognize view. Oh man or woman splinter. You're right you got that or you're just got a masters Working on a bachelor's or getting in the way we walk because Mendis here tell us her story we've all experienced a little bit of man explaining in our lives but this is the focus of your story. Mendy if I'm correct on that Yeah definitely have your tell us about this infamous date so on bumble Swiping left and right right into the sky looks cute. We have a few things in common. He loves him. Berkeley's a PhD student. Great Smart Intellectual Berkeley so you know. Go bears so we match and we're chatting a little bit in the back of my head. I'm like well. Is IT GONNA work? You live in the East Bay. It's not really what I'm looking for. Crossing that bridge and so much we talk for a few days and he's like hey you know I'm going to be in San Francisco's weekend. I'm going to get drinks with my friends on Sunday. If you WANNA meet after purvey Nian Nestle both world. You know I get to meet you and I don't have to leave like my neighborhood so we shot a little more than the week flies by and we don't talk that much more which looking back maybe was. Maybe I should have done it in a little more and so Sunday rolls around and we're supposed to meet around six PM and he text me earlier. He says hey. My friend had to leave a little early. I'm ready to meet up whenever but I understand that you know. We had plans to me that six. So I have my copy of the economists. I'm final at the bar later. I'll read for a little while so Buji economists to. I don't think I found that a little off putting. Oh okay yeah like no big deal. I brought my economist so intellectual so you know I walk my dog getting a little ready and I walked over the immediately. There was something often. I didn't really click with them but I was. I was there and I felt like it was really weird to just kind of walk out so we have had some undo the five meditate before on the show that they show up and they're like nope next it's tough. I think that there may be some value to that after this experience. My yeah at the time was like Oh. It's super rude. I should just have a worse case. What's the worst that can happen right? And the back of my head. I was like well. This guy was studying urban poverty and in cities and City Planning specifically looking at homelessness and large cities so live in San Francisco. It's a huge problem here at the very least I can learn something interesting guy lutely right and you know it's a problem that's really hard to solve and we we all face it every day so we chat a little bit and I make what I learned later. Was the number one rule for a PhD. Student was don't ask about their their dissertations so US began by like the world's longest beer pretty much. So how long were you there for one beer? But I felt like so long too long time.

00:10:03 - 00:15:04

It's what you perceive gently. It was probably not even. I'm pulling our tops by still our dissertation to you seem like five years. Yeah so you know. I asked him a little bit about what he's studying. And like what his focus of research as and as I mentioned before it was homelessness in large cities and so I tried to. Oh you know I read this really interesting Article Abou- in Salt Lake City. They did this wonderful project and it was really successful and before I can. We get that sentence out. He interrupts me. Oh that's not something that would work here. You know. Obviously everybody's different but you know right. It's conversation yeah I was pretty taken aback by it. Okay and then he starts to dive into. This is why that wouldn't work. And that's why they're wrong. This will never work here. My study like what? I'm studying so much more complicated. And you know just a lot of vomit inducing thoughts and sentences so I'm starting to get a little a little more uncomfortable with the situation still three or four six into my beer so it's kind of weird situation start shy yes so that's kind of like the last time. I really got any thing and so you start talking about his research. All of these things and I like an idiot. Keep trying to engage the conversation. You know like right. He said something like. Oh there's one shelter bed for every home. Eighty four homeless people in San Francisco. I think was the number and that's pretty horrific. They get kicked out every morning and they'll have to get back in line just this whole thing and Si- interject only shelter is our from what I understand. I worked at a homeless shelter volunteer for five years and women's clinic and what I understood from that was not very safe so a lot of people aren't really that into a and I again but he says they're not. Actually that unsafe was like. Oh speaking from experience here. I didn't realize he was a homeless woman. Either so there was only for men. It's same situation. He will you know. I was homeless for a little while. Excuse me say what. Kinda records going and his equality now for a year for part of my research. I decided that I wanted to know what it was. Like to be on the ground in these shelters so he. He gave up his apartment. Berkeley moved over to San Francisco on rented a place here but like three days. A week would sleep in shelters so he wasn't really hopeless so he's taking us face at these shelters that are lacking spe. Exactly that was Buji research exactly what I said and at this time so mad. He's been just a total asshole for maybe eight minutes so I say that exactly that wall. My research is going to help these people at some point and continues to just interrupt me and every sentence just. I can't get anything and it's just the epitome of explaining what homelessness is really like and how difficult it is and like the lock of dignity that these people feel which I empathize with. But I wasn't really getting it from this guy who is a like SIS gender white male who studying some Berkeley which is a completely different perspective. And I get the dedication to research. But you're not homeless like you have an apartment that you're living in. Yeah five days a week. You're eating for furry off of our tax dollars for your research and she would just go in and observe what it'd be the true experience according to him yet. 'cause I really at this point because I had very very little patience left. I guess and he kept telling me lots and lots of stories about all this stuff but ultimately he was just so upset about the fact that like I even questioned him to he was just really pigment and getting very defensive and he's never understand because we grew up all the stuff to you know it was. It was a lot. What was his reason for? Getting into this kind of research you know. I honestly don't know I think I think ultimate he's probably not a bad person. I just think that he has. He obviously cares right. This is not a field where he's going to make a lot of money but it was. Just I think his downfall was he just stopped understanding and empathizing and just kind of felt like he was the only person that was right and only knew like he wasn't open to any conversation about it. So did you guys like talk about anything else. Did like the bare end point. I mean it was really hard for me to get anything else and at that point and he just kind of dug in more and more. I don't know how much detail you want me to get into it. But it was impression that and then I hug my beer and I was trying to leave and ultimately actually I was so desperate for an excuse to leave because of just how like agitated and weird and uncomfortable I was. I think excuse was I have to go. 'cause I'm planning. I was planning a trip to Southeast Asia and I had to go meet my group on a phone call. Or whatever and haughty had the phone call was the first thing that came to mind. Physical aware you going. Well how are you actually going to ask me a question about myself? Maybe is still hopes. I told him I was going and he started to tell me where I should avoid what I should make sure. And he's like well definitely don't even bother going to like this part of the country like he should really.

00:15:04 - 00:20:09

I gotta go. He signed so then as I'm walking home tax means like those so great talking to you. I'm like Love to see you again and I just. I don't believe in go seeing. I don't condone ghosting. I blocked his number because I was traumatized everything that had happened. During the day. It was a so so stressful unpleasant experience that I also just like I'm done. It's so funny. How two people can have totally different views of how the day just went. Yeah I went to a conversation one. Oh one course. Once and the instructor said the main barometer of how successful a conversation is or how someone views a conversation is how much they got to talk about themselves. Oh so he. When people say I had a really great conversation they actually just able to talk about themselves. That checks out and that way. I mean he must have had a great time. He's present I was also very polite for the first half of it while it was still right because I'm so conditioned to just be okay. I'm GONNA Smile Grin and bear it. I'm just going to get through this beer. It'd be rude for me to leave. Why not from? His perspective was probably having a really great time. I'm sure you're not the first girl that he's spent the whole date man split a a very normal occurrence right. I was GONNA say I wonder how many times he's done this or this is his emo about this research on every date. If it's asked I had like I think the one of the worst states have ever been on was similar that different topic. That's actually like. In retrospect I don't know why didn't get up and leave. I think if it was in this day and age was also a while ago I probably would have gone up and left but he basically just spent the whole d- telling me how terrible women were. Basically he put women into like a couple of buckets and like some of them. Were just like so rude to him in like when he would go to whole foods and like try to pick them up they just ignore him in like all the stuff. That's really where I wanNA get picked up. This is like telling me lake stories about like how women like wouldn't return sexual favors for him. I think the same thing that I'm just curious persons on like you know what I'm already here. Yeah so I'm just GONNA keep asking questions in the at the end of the day he also. This is the best day and I've had the same reaction I thought of this very much. Don't believe in ghosting too. But this is the one person when he reached out. I just like couldn't reply because I was just like I can't ever get our back in my life. It was honestly like fairly traumatizing looking back on it. I laugh now because it is ridiculous. I call it my like my homeless date like the date with the homeless guy but he was just so agitated by the end of it too. I was a little uncomfortable and I couldn't every time I try to say something. I was so obviously wrong that I began to look people at the bar. Like doesn't know unrealized that I- shrinking in my seedlings dying like where's my knight in shining armor to come rescue me but ultimately? I just had to walk away because he was just so intense to well. I mean Julie's KS insulting women is one thing in your case Mindy. He's talking about his dissertation a topic. That may not be offensive. So what do you think bothered you the most about this date? I mean I think ultimately it was his attitude. I was genuinely interested right like I really did want to learn about what he was talking about but it was just his dismissive ness with whenever I tried to interject. Because you know compensation is a two way street right if I say oh I read this really great article about Salt Lake City and how they did X Y and Z with their homeless population. Obviously recognize that Salt Lake City San Francisco or to bury different cities. I don't need you to cut me off. Dismiss me and say like my opinions are really invalid I think that that's and then he just got very like I said he got agitated. He just kept his like his demeanor. Get very upset when he was talking about some of the experiences he was having when he was homeless homeless. And so I think that's what it was. It was just like this weird level of just dismissive ness and also like I was getting a little nervous. With how agitated who is coming to. I think people just want to be heard in general that goes back to your study right of like when you have a really good conversation talking. You'd probably say had a really bad conversation if you didn't get a word out right so it's like I've been on dates and it hasn't been assertion like man splitting They'll just gonNA keep talking and not really asked you any questions piano and it just feels like they want like showroom and yeah it's tough because I'm like is it in a malicious way. Like he might just be like trying to impress or like genuinely just doesn't really see that they're doing something wrong. Yeah it could be like nerve and I think people are pretty passionate about things that they spent so much of their lives researching and studying so again. I don't think he's a bad person. I just think that overall it was just so hard to just be in a place where you just can't even get a word and and it's not even just like a bad first impression left a bad taste now.

00:20:09 - 00:25:00

I mean I'm no psychologist. But it sounds like he has symptoms of a narcissistic personality. Just someone who cannot accept someone who is at their level who needs to be the one explaining and educating all the time. Yeah and I wouldn't even call this man S- planning I think this is just someone who thinks that they're above other people feel like there are on always right and they know more information than you do. This is an interesting statistic. I read a lot about narcissism for years. Because I don't know if I was dating a narcissist Was attracted narcissists. But I felt like I was seeing symptoms that were very consistent and statistics. Show that a many narcissist clinically narcissist personalities and up a partner. Who doesn't speak English very well. It's just like Bam that makes so the partner is like you can't really speak up. They are always in agreement. They're always impressed by what they're saying. Right so and isn't that fascinating makes so much sense though. I mean that's quite like you brought up a good point like I feel like we are quick to say men splitting in this time right like when I'm in gendered situation could another way just with everyone right or women I feel. It could also be the theory so it is tough because I think like my instinct to is like man's playing the exotic the buzzword that you hear all the time yeah it's very him yeah he was doing the same thing to another man they would also be very like put off by. I wonder though I felt part of what really stood out to his dismissive -ness of like when I was saying Molin tiered in this women. It's really dangerous for women was like it's not. It's really hard for me to like recognize that you understand what the experience is like for a woman 'em for him to have been so dismissive of my experience as well was kind of kind of played into. Bowman's planning yes. I was actually doing some research on man's planning so much we are but like a few came up. There was like a big piece of it was like when men talk about experiences. They know a woman's body genius or like even there was one example. That was interesting like I would never thought of. This guy's like smile. You should smile more. It's like kind of like telling you how your body that's interesting. The other one is like having your field of expertise kind of explain to you so all this wasn't necessarily your expertise. You had a valid PSI if it was another man. Would he have dismissed it as much? I guess we don't know right. That's like the other big piece or the other when situations where women are more. Outsiders like if it's like about like buying a car or like camping or linked traditional manly man type things so even if you go camping every week someone's going to be like now. I got it right. I love when you hear a story or seasonally. Something on twitter where a man is explaining some concept to a woman happens through the author of the leading book in that field or something really bad. I wrote that right but yeah I think you have a point there there is. We don't really know whether or not he is manslaughter. But I do think that there is some level of life. I felt like he didn't take my opinion seriously. Every signs and I do your point. I do think he would do a lot better with someone that didn't have didn't push back on him at all. I was extremely impressed by his research. Agreed with every success. So how do we deal with situations like this? That may or may not be man's planning but you're on a day where you feel like it's man splitting necessarily matter if it is if you're feeling cower ways that people can kind of avoid this or I'm sure mindy you fantasize about the scenario over and over 'cause I've had this and I go back and I think a why and I say this in the moment why this. What are some of those fantasies you had? I mean my biggest fantasy was that I just. I'm sorry obviously like sometimes with other gas like we have like a podcast host. Erin Rachel dropouts member from wise woman podcasts. And she coaches women. She's like if you're not feeling it just just it's like sometimes there are situations where it just not worth your time. I think to my to what we were talking about earlier about the five minute day and all these things and how we feel like it's rude. I think in my mind. I've been so programmed to be friendly into light and all this stuff. There's all these things that do come with me and I think because I just sat there and smell like politely like drink my beer for half the beer before I started to actually Kinda poke back at the end of the day. Wow I had such a great time with you. You had no idea how miserable I was because I was leading off how miserable it was so I think it would have been really great if I had just been like. I'm done.

00:25:00 - 00:30:02

This is not going to work. And then there's no it's very clear. Also still ultimately ghosted him. Which you know is not great right but if I had just been able to be like you suck doing that. Productive like does a person like this take criticism while or should we give them some sort of feedback. 'cause could you end the day and say you know? I really felt like you were being dismissive on some of some my experiences. I feel like you were being condescending. Yeah I think there's value to that to some extent but I also think there's much more emotional labor that like you only want to deal with this quiet but again. This is a few years ago. So maybe those valium both things like change of the scenario than Mendy. If a good friend of yours said many I have a friend I want you to. I want to introduce you to. She's new to the city is new to the city. You guys grab a coffee and this exact scenario happens. What would you do in that case? That's interesting because there's a level of your friend some social pressure there. You know I don't know I would like to say that I feel the same way. It is a little harder when you're looking at it from a romantic perspective. Because if I'm looking at this person as a partner that's not what I want my life. Databases I want someone who can meet me at my level. Respect my opinion. I'm a very outspoken person. If it's a friend of a friend and you know she just needs to grab coffee and pick my brain about San Francisco or whatever I could probably get through it and then just avoid her pretty easily. 'cause we're more tolerant of that. Yeah I I don't have to have her in my life right right. It's just like a favor for a friend. If you know like one of you ask me. I guess sure I mean I think the other side of is like is there intent bad. We're assuming they're intent is now could you one let them know like? Hey can I get a word in the hall them on it kind of as you're talking like wait hold up for one minute like? I have actually worked at a homeless shelter. Have an opinion. That's vowed like really directly. Call it and see how they react. Because they're yes. There's a chance that they'll be like no. There's a chance that they're like Oh shit. I didn't realize I was doing that. There is like kind of giving the benefit of the doubt at least once. Fattening right. 'cause date Sir nerve-racking I like it. I'm pretty extroverted so I just I go. I'm there right if you're introverted is a lot more of a whole process of getting yourself amp for the conversation so it is totally ballad that he was not being malicious and all and I was just like home but you also be have to be true to your own feelings and say I am not enjoying myself day in fact I am fucking miserable. WanNa get out. Yeah so why? Even give him the benefit the doubt because at that point. It's your life you have to control a situation. Yeah I think it taught me a lot about like trusting my gut initial in initial gut reaction. And I I mean like I wasn't just embellishing that for the story after I was just honestly I don't know what it is but there's some weird vibe here but I also was just like you know benefit of the Dow. You're probably with a nice guy so you know well it plays. They're probably not going to murder me. This is why we condone the phone. Call our meeting because he would have done this over the phone and you could easily true but I mean that's the other thing like like what is that line of too many questions before you ever meet. You don't want to like keep asking questions and never meet the person but also I'm very weary of those people that ask you meet up like Anita feel like you need to at least like I don't know what conversation you had with him. I know you admitted said like middle. East could have been a little all about. I think the fact that he was like. Hey I'm GONNA be in town right and it's just like okay like yeah you know why not and. I was pretty newly single at this point. It was maybe like four months after five months after I hadn't gotten out of a longterm relationship. I'd probably only been on the APP. I was still kind of feeling my way through right advocate and all that stuff and now. I'm but you're right like some conversations that just go on forever and then there's just like the people that are like hi. You WanNa meet right now. So this is weird how. I need to know something about you. Know we have a guest meredith. That used to work at the league dating APP and I remember. She had like a good point that was like can you do a back and forth banter so you know at least like three solid things. That's really good. We're all right. It's like I know like a little bit about you but there's also mystery talk about a also you don't like form what you want to be excited about. The I think that's the other thing like some of my best online dates have been people that I've been excited to meet before I got there so the ones that have the loews expectations. I'm never talked about that. Yeah that's the tricky. Because I remember like my roommate like when she first tried online dating. She like was like in love with this dude. You slow your roll all like what is meet up I. Yeah he came back. He was boring shit and personally he was a great messager.

00:30:02 - 00:35:01

Like here. The says on the Texas Banter that right one hundred percent and then you mean. You're like yeah. Are you concerned probably higher coach? That right those messages. That's what makes people does need the thought process better when they think that's what makes d online dating really tough because there isn't like a hard fast. Yeah I wish there was like a list of rules like all it and there's no right just like okay ten messages if you're not in it whatever it is but it is hard because there's so many Like Sultan cues and vibes and things to that happen in the near nervous and it's very it's very hard. Sometimes people are really nervous on their first day. Maybe you're saying their third day. You're like wait. This is actually great. Which is why. It is really hard to do all my dating. 'cause it's hard to give people that much time when there's so many of your hands and different than theirs It's just a lot but you know some of my longer relationships where people that the first day it was like. Wow all I think so. I'm not sure you are really cool. And you're worth a second day and maybe maybe we can have a more fun day. They opened up so much more. I was more spontaneous. You know I think what's important with dating. Nowadays because people are so ambivalent about first dates they can walk away and they think go on a second date could go either way. I think it's better to walk away from a date with a very strong opinion. I rather go away from date and say I will never want to see this saying the man splinter is killing it. I know nothing he did. He did you a favor. They do himself a favor. Well maybe she did do himself lever able to put up with that. If that's the type of person that he is right you know. I don't know him. Just GonNa take a guess by by virtue of him. Say He's reading economists while he's waiting for you. I bet he's the type of guy who goes his friends and says I need a girl who's really intellectual whose at my intellectual level but eventually but actually no I need a girl who's not so headed and tells me right and the best thing to happen to her so I think it's important to go on these days I don't I mean like yes. In hindsight it was agitating. And it's annoying to rethink what happened but at the same time. I think you walked away knowing a couple of things one is. You don't ever WanNa see this prison again but to you're aware of next time when I'm talking about something. I know a lot about how I should present myself and allow room for the other person to also talk and to have a conversation and not just dismiss their opinions. Even if it's something that you may know ten times more than they do but they could have a valid point of view for something. You've never thought about like. If he was a real researcher he would have openly enjoyed another perspective. Exactly exactly exactly like for your situation. My biggest fantasy is wouldn't have in the middle of date. You just whipped out your dissertation your life visit be a PhD. And this is well and by the way. Have London breed all right now? Do you talk to her. Do you WANNA ask her. How safe the shelters are and the MIC drop. Get the fuck out the ultimate. But you've been on a date that just like man splendor at something. That was like no the only time because I was thinking about this while you guys are talking about your stories. The only time something similar happened to me was I went on a date with a guy who before the date. He was very good about telling me what he likes. What he doesn't like so for example. I had to cancel our first date because I had a meeting. I came up last minute. And he said I really don't like last minute changes but if you are serious about going out with me again you are the one the onus is on you so I like that. Yeah 'cause he's like if you want to make this happen you make it happen so we made it happen but on the date. The first thing he said to me was I asked him how he was. And the first thing he said to me was how depressed he was and how he just gave me this whole story about how he was at a at a phase in his life where he didn't he was lost and he was old depress and he his sister was also depressed and he was just league in limbo it was just tmi for her stay athlon and it didn't live up to sort of like the commanding confidence that he had before going into. So that's also come opposite right now. It's interesting there's only opposite I just don't. I felt like his therapist because I spent an hour me being asking him questions. Like how do you feel what made you feel this way? What's the root cause of my absolutely nothing? I not the part. That's really tough. Yeah Yeah always you always want to know you want to learn about the other person but it's a two way street right and this is I just met with men doing women. I've heard so many men complain that women don't ask them shed them just asking questions and putting on a show. You know what I would have loved to do.

00:35:01 - 00:40:00

A big about this man quizzed him and asked him like what three things? Could you tell me about me? Ooh I know I. Do you know anything about me that you didn't learn from dating profile but learned today or instead of saying a instead of a leading question like that hide it in another like basically ask him this question. So what was it about me that may do want to go out with me? Yeah and see what he said. Yeah 'cause I'm super curious. What drew you to him in the phrase. Yeah you're just a warm body to listen to a big lie. He asked me if I could hear a really good point right. I think I actually did go on a date. Once where we like jokingly at the end of the night he was telling me things about me and it was like I I did. Can you tell me he's like yeah? And so that's exactly why it is a two way street on a conversation in a day is like an interview right. You're just you WANNA meet this person. You want to get to know this person if I walk out and I have no idea if you know anything about me but you still want to hang out with me. What does that say about you right? Well I think sometimes people to we've talked about this before date. You're really just trying to get to know another person and I think sometimes I do think some of this man's explaining not to like reduce it but I do think some of it comes from like trying to impress though like I think there is a side that's I'm noah versus. There is a side. That's like I wanna make a good impression. I WanNa feel like I know a lot about a certain topic trying to impress the person that you're worth seeing again and everyone's very busy and everyone is extremely valuable. Would you do that like with that girl that you were getting coffee with like would you? Would you spend time like just talking about yourself to like someone on the same sex? You have no romantic interest in right so I think this is something for the dating APPs to really be accountable for all they do right now. Is they're responsible for the match and they throw you out in the wild and shit just happens and they don't give they don't give a damn what if there was like closing of Lutheran inch they ask you if you've met the arson and what you think of them. Oh yeah it doesn't give them feedback. I think is probably for the best pulled up right now because I'm just curious I don't think they ask you like. Why did you meet right? What you see them again I think and then does that do they do with that final no quote unquote make your health. Better matches. She so join for you so this is what you're getting. Did you meet this learning your hype so naturally by Amazon just asking? If this is the type of person you'd see again and then we hope it works great for like phone number if you if there if they see You know in the message. They might week later. They're like hey did you mean just mark someone who didn't meet that test but I do but they would be good to like what if there was a star system one to five date you. You could rate them. And then they'll say lists three things you learn about them and then would you want to see them again? If there's a match then your responses gift shared and so you see what the other person responds back with. The three things they learn about you. If there is no match that you want then you just never see that nothing. Yeah or you could get like aggregate so it doesn't reflect a one person because I could see things feedback is arts like you get the ratings. Can this four point six five whatever. I think that that would be slightly problematic but I do think that there is value in that like feedback loop right because there's so many rules like to my texts you that day. I honestly just like really like when I get like a follow up on a good day like if you get home and like something funny happened to you in your lift ride. You tell me about it and I like that like I'm going to be like Oh. This guy is totally. There's so many weird unwritten rules about how to do it so like I think that would actually help some people if he wanted to opt into that. Just be like yeah. I do like this person. But I'm a little nervous about how to go about it. Or if you like got the positive rating from them. You'd be case. Yeah like yeah like AH FOR EXAMPLE. You went on bumble to meet the sky. What if the next time you open bumble in order to use bumble again you have to give some sort of feedback about this current date even after text to and then you don't have to go see him like. Oh Yeah. I could see that being dangerous now.

00:40:00 - 00:45:02

I have a guy to get the feedback in like know who I am. No My name. Yeah yeah stuff so I feel feedback but maybe having just the air. Nay Yet your or name that's it and that neither match you know. It would eliminate ghosting which is a huge problem dating so very true. I think there's room for improvement for sure so the quiz we stumbled upon a new feature that we should not takeaways. If you were to give this guy feedback. Let's say the band splinter homeless guy was to come on the show. He's in the closet right now. He's sleeping there for a couple of weeks. He's still homeless. What would you say to him? If you're honest sit down I mean I would probably to your point. You're pretty dismissive about everything that I had to say regardless of whether I knew what I was talking about it or not. You know. There's room for that maybe not to open with while when I was homeless as a sentence that you say I just there's nothing wrong with it. I understand people go through different times their life. But just very jarring statement date but really. It was more just about his dismissive desks right right topic but yeah I understand the desire to be heard but it also you know kind of putting yourself in the other person's shoes I mean like they probably have a similar desire and I'm there to try to get to know you but you should also be there to try to get to know me. I'm not like you're sounding board so you can just be talking about how great you are That would be good feedback. He's listening right now. Are Listening and if you ever want to give a lecture about homelessness and San Francisco. We love to have you on the show notes. Yeah Yeah I mean I think like takeaways is definitely like this whole piece of like. There is another person there at the end of the day like this is like connection. You're trying to form. I think you could limit your work to a very small portion and try to diversify the topics on indeed when it feels like it's like ninety nine percent about one person or one topic that the other person doesn't really know much about doesn't lend itself to make someone feel comfortable and feel like they were heard and they got equal airtime. I guess yeah I think the main takeaway. I have is a stems back to my dating. Coaching days when clients come to me and say my struggle with dates is that I'm not able to get all my talking points out because I want this person to know that I'm this. This and this and I accomplished this this this. Everyone's so concerned about getting their sound bite out. They've forgotten that the point of dating is to learn so I always say. Switch it around your focus on dates. It's not to bring your publicist with you and tell you to the other person. Your goal should be to learn something new. So what if our goal for every day that we go on is to learn three things new not just about that person just three general things that are new to you. Learn on this date then we would go in with a much more conversational mindset versus trying to get your talking points out. One hundred percent agree with that. I was just joking with somebody that I'm like. If I'm going to be out there dating I WANNA I WANNA LEARN. Learn new podcast on this guy and Yeah I learned that. I don't like dating homeless Point Right. Like if you're more open minded about it then you can really actually started to get to know someone and it kind of flows naturally to like if you learned something about them. You can say oh. This is how it relates to compliment that I had really WANNA get out right. It's just it's not. Don't bring your resume to my date right. Get to know you sell your Assam. Should just naturally do it through the flow of conversation even with the homeless guy. I learned something new. I learned that you don't have to prove that you're homeless to be in a shelter. Apparently yeah I think gets the point to this trying to impress and to your point earlier you that you brought up. That study is like people judge Good conversation of how much they contributed. Also yeah so in a way. You're actually like impressing more by letting someone have that airtime in the ability to be heard in. Have that Lake Open conversation than if you're just like spewing out your resume. Yeah that's what you're dating profile is for. That's when you get your list out whatever you need to do. That's what you're linked in. Four people can search for all day for you anyways. Rationally Jim into man to make sure you're safe human being like something like what you said. Many you volunteering at a women's clinic is not something that is searchable. That's not something on your Lincoln or your profile. So That's interesting to get that kind of gold out of someone on a day. I think that's a sign of success and you were.

00:45:02 - 00:50:03

Were saying it because we're trying to elite. Were just like spitting that out of nowhere like it was relevant so I think those are the best dates we're like the conversation just like Ping Pong and you're not thinking about like what are the five things on the way to get into this conversation. You know how do I steer the conversation to exactly X Y and Z? Yeah exactly KULDEEP. Time for a question of the DADS do question of the day comes from Jackson so he said I went on a date recently with a girl and I found myself talking a lot throughout the date because it was hard to get her to engage in conversation. I would ask her a question. Should we give me a one word answer back in then? I just felt like I had to keep talking however the date did not result in the second date. So I'm wondering if I could have done something differently. Do you have any advice That's really hard. I mean I think it goes back to what we said that it's a two way street. So it's tough because she might have felt like you were dominating the conversation but like if you're not giving someone anything to work with there's only so much they can do also. I almost appetizer more with him. Because I think if you're not giving them anything to say this just silence. No one wants to sit in silence on. Let's like most people's nightmare right and I think it kind of just indicates that she either was super nervous or wasn't feeling wasn't feeling it right. If she's not giving him more like a must use an extremely shy introverted person might take her a little bit longer to open up. But I don't know it. Just it's there's not a lot you can do and no one's giving you anything with to work with some people. It takes a while to get any sort of substance out in them. But it's also not your job to pull teeth so it's the sign of two people not clicking as a sign of on match a match people. It's good. That Jackson tried to ask questions. Because I think like sometimes people just expect. The other person will volunteer in foul but I wonder like how it was approach to put Jackson down in any way but lake. If it was just like peppered questions that could have been off putting so maybe it was like how could you lean into differently to make someone feel comfortable in some way so again? We weren't at the date we weren't there so it's like hard to police say but I think just like being conscious of people have different Ways that they communicate they have different like on a for state and then also to kind of the points remain earlier. Sometimes you just need to cut your loss. Yeah Yeah I think also maybe something to be. Cognizant of is also just nowhere was the day how was the conversation before it was great? And then she showed up in shutdown. Maybe maybe that's not her not being interested or maybe that's not being comfortable in like in a bar setting or in a restaurant or something right like just being aware of that. But there's not really much I think to your point you're right like I don't think there's a lot that we could have done. He could have done differently. That point the one thing of Fakey of those of thicky of that deep the whim date that U. N. And Yeah like I feel like we had an episode where we actually went on a date with someone and we got both perspectives. He called you out and ask like. Is there something that's bothering you like? What's been what's really going on. We're like gave me feedback. I feel like you're not really opening up. Yeah what's going on with something like what? How can we make the state more comfortable and ate that though I liked it because I feel like I like that type of personality? Some may sensitive to it but I don't think there's nothing wrong with asking for feedback date. How're you doing? Are you comfortable? Yeah do you feel like we're clicking or I you know like? Would you wanna go to a different play? Yes yeah like very recently. My roommate went on a day and on our way there she was. I think it was a second date and she'll I it was great analii there. She was a little nervous and she's like I don't know I just don't want to be late. I don't want to hang out in a bar and it was like too late to cancel. Like just tell him say like. Hey I'm you know feeling a little anxious or if I have a headache would be really great if we can do something else and they did you you know what for a walk. They wandered around. They really didn't need to sit in a bar and it was just like a lot of feedbacks important. Like if you're nervous or if you're not feeling up for something or just giving people that honest feedback is really helpful. Because odds are the other person wants to accommodate you. If they're going out of their way to meet you. Yeah I mean. This girl could have been not feeling. While there could have been zillion things in her personal life. There could have been so many pieces. I guess at that point when you have to lose. Yeah maybe it would be worthwhile. I don't know how long it's been but just sending a follow up if you haven't already into say like I duNNo. Just ask him what happened. You know? Maybe it's not but yeah just be more observant. And letting the other person to know that you care because you're spending time together. Oh dating. Isn't it so much fun. Guesswork mining reading trying to be psychics.

00:50:03 - 00:55:02

Here I think the Spurs veiling this way. Why can't we just ask? Why can't we just say these things? It just boggles my mind that we can step back and say everything. We wanted to stay in the moment. We just can't talk about on a podcast. We to hundreds of thousands of people to that one person were actually matters. We just can't have some reason. We can't promote on lengthy invulnerable very scary or being totally honest. I guess it's really hard and also just like how to deliver how how to filter. Yeah your comments. I think it's really tough this day and age too because you just don't know if you're ever going to see this person again right to be super vulnerable if you're like oh. I think I'm having a great day and then they're gonNA ghost me start to build up a wall which is is not good either because you need to like be vulnerable that openness to meet that person that will return it but it is tough than. That's the downside of all these like bad dates lake of you go on too many man's planning dates or whatever. Yeah start to get jaded and I think that's the part that like makes dating really tops and it's like how do you like balance the two now? We just have to be nice to each other. Maybe that's the biggest takeaway is after every date ended in a way that if you were able if you were to run into this and again that you feel comfortable saying hi to them. I went out with Leon a few nights ago. We had Lee our show. Who is one of the most popular unpopular guests? We've had he talked about all the women he's burned in the past and he's burning women in San Francisco so wherever we go especially if there's a party he has to look at the guest list because he has all the women that he may have dated and burn in the past. Cisco's too small of a city for that but but even like this happens in New York. This happens in London. This happens in any city where you date. Ri- right you never know when you're gonNA run into someone and I would hate to be Leon because there are so many places that you can't go to parties. He's banned from a C. So afraid of running into this girl this girl. So why? Don't we date in a way that we can walk away and say even though those romantic connection we ended it in a way that if I were to run into this prison again it okay out you walk into a grocery store and a million out because essentially like? I'm not saying this is again on you but you could have like when he did tax. Be Like Hey Lakers really interesting learning. About how your study? I'm just looking for someone that will kind of let me also be heard. Yeah Yeah exactly. I draw the next day. We just wave at every like. Hey Yeah. We're sending a picture of you in London breed who opening our new homeless shelter a homeless Shelter Sharing Your dissertation right now. That's you should have talked about exactly major mic. Drop a loaded. This great conversation and of the day. It's we have to treat each other like human beings how we treat friends how we treat family dating is no different. I don't know why we put in a different category. These are humans that were spending time with. They may just be a little bit different and that that is practically it's the perception like this is a random person from the Internet. Still even though online dating and dating APPs are so prevalent. There's this feeling like I'm never gonNa see this person again and like guess. What if you live in a small city I brought into so many frigging gone on dates with before in sometimes like I ran into the Women Hater Multiple Times. He lived on my street literally. Iran's have so many times and I would like do the DOC. Because I'm like I don't want to deal with this L. Yes you're going to see this person again so it's like how do you just end it in a way that that is comfortable friendly? It's Nice it's Kinda why I like for a little while when I think it was hinge and bumble both show you if you had mutual friends and Tommy because you can't just go someone if they have a forty friends in common with under probably again and it forces us to see them as people and not just these random strangers from the Internet because it's a little bit more anonymous that way you can't do away with it to end this episode on that note. I think you can also politely tell someone like that. This was not a good date. There's no reason you should like put up a friendly face to this guy like you could have politely just been like. I'm looking for someone that's GonNa respect. Yeah gun show. Here is a challenge to everyone. Who's listening right now? We talk a lot about what knocked to talk about on dates or what not to do but I think this question. We get all the time. Which is what a great day conversation. Sound like what are people talking about and most people would say oh. The conversations flowed we never had any dairy. We just it just felt like we known each other forever.

00:55:03 - 00:57:54

But what does that actually sound like? Yeah who's willing to take on a challenge of getting on a phone date with someone and we record it wicked here. I love a great date even over the phone with sound. Like so. If you're up for the challenge definitely reach out dateable Alison Awesome Dot Com. We wrap this up and you know that's it. I think yeah fantastic. Everyone going some great dates have some great conversations. Don't talk about homelessness that's it. I mean honestly like I do think I'd love to like just record a day because it's funny because I'm thinking of like my dates and it's like Since now removed from it back fully. Yeah there are a lot of great people out there. I think it's like we can't let these like one out there. Like put people like media apple unsure but I think the best dates are like when you're seeing heard it's a two way story learn something new and you're like getting to a little deeper level. Yeah I think that's like I know it's like vague but I think like if you're like somehow telling someone something that you would not necessarily know. Yeah maybe it's beyond our online Rifi or maybe it's just they're like closer friends no. It doesn't need to be like I've been depressed for months to go to that level. There's still a level right but I think it's nice to like. What are the things that you share with your closer friends that you could potentially share with this new person and let them feel like you're bringing them into your life? Yeah yeah definitely awesome. We're GONNA wrap this up. Well thank you very much for sharing your having me open candid conversation about all of this. I feel like I learned. Renew things about you success. We make you feel hurt. You didn't talk so much. Did Man Spleen you? I will write a few second day. Rally this up on stage. The dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Find more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast TAG US in any post with the HASHTAG. Stay dateable entrusts. We look at all those pose then head over to our website dateable PODCASTS DOT com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums also downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts. Platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.