Season 10 Episode 2: Two months into marriage...

00:00:00 - 00:05:03

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating so last year Julian I had a chance to visit New York and as part of our trip which was pretty epic. Yes super epic. We did a so much like three days if we're there for a week and it was what it was three days to have days but we got a chance to meet up with a friend of mine that I hadn't senior years. Tommy Danger Kim. Who has his own. Podcast called the Tommy Danger Experiment. And that's his actual middle name. Love it like I didn't realize that when we recorded and then when he told me that after like you guys will hear the episode but it was amazing but I think knowing his actual middle name is danger. Just bring into a home their level but after you met him you probably thought how fitting right absolutely. I think it's like you. I was just like hey my friend wants out the podcast and I think because we were in New York. We're like let's take advantage of as many opportunities we can. We met with a bunch of people podcast companies and we wanted to be on. Someone's podcast in New York. Yeah so we jumped at the opportunity and I had no idea. I think we're a little hug over. We shut up a little orange alert extremely hung over and where we recorded at his co working space was super sunny and I remember one versa. We got coffee because we were like pretty because we rage like we were hammers. Were out again. It was three days but felt like everything was jammed. Pack the live show. That's why we went at the wing so then we went out for drinks with everyone. They're in an I remember the next night we were like okay. Let's go to bed. Not let's go out because we're in New York. Yeah but let's not stay out super late and we didn't really work out three. I don't remember I remember really met up with your president ended up like a raging gay club member. Yeah and that's when I totally lost all sense of time and your friend I've ever remember. He picked me up on the streets. We are skipping handed. Had best by the I like totally took you as friends into underwriting Robin trait the most beautiful men in my life. They were amazing. But I have to say we were not prepared to be on Thomas. Show but we were like okay. Let's show up. Get some caffeine in us. We're GONNA be good but we ended up staying for two hours. We recorded a two hour episode with time for his for his podcast. In after we were done we both were like that was one of the best conversations. His like whole mindset with the podcast is no editing. Free-form compensation let it go however long it goes. It's actually kind of amazing just the fact that we were able to talk for two hours. I think we all Consciously I to get on a train till the suburbs of New York and you meet a friend really. We have to stop talking. We would have been there for another four. Yes possibly talking about everything and in the beginning we like. Everybody always asks about sex parties because it seems to be volatile. No people ask Julie. Pretty sure he did it ask. That's intriguing into every conversation is sex parties because it's a great icebreaker. It's also like Hey Tommy on the scene you in ten years. Let's talk about sex parties and he was down for you know talking about. He's very intrigued. By the end of the two hours we got really deep made a breakthrough. We we laugh about it now but it was such a powerful moment because I talked to Tommy in so long. I had no idea that he was. I mean divorce for a few years. But if felt like a fresh wound and the break-up was very traumatizing for him. Yeah I remember when we over. You're like I'm not really sure. What his status. These days I think the last time I saw on facebook he might have just been recently divorced. You were just unsure of Weirdos was at all in his life and it's kind of like we brought this up in episode two. It's like this is the power of going deeper because if we had laughed after say an hour we would have had a great congress parties. Yeah it would have been very fun and surface level but by the end it felt like we were like we knew each other like we knew him. Yeah Oh yes. We knew him on a whole new level and I have a whole new level of appreciation for him to even though we are we. Don't keep in touch all the time even usually you man for the first time that day but you felt like you had this connection that is exactly what we strive for at least eight.

00:05:03 - 00:10:02

Yeah now we're homeys. Now we get it. He's got you got you homemade. We get that all the time for him which is amazing. We all change our middle name danger. So here's just a snippet of the episode because again it's two full hours. If you want to hear it you can go on his podcast. Itami danger experiment podcast. So just a little background. Who Tommy is yet? He's in his late thirties. He's been in New York for ten years originally from L. A. Yeah so he did the West Coast to east coast thing. He is currently single and he's very shit out yet. He of healing from that divorce. But I think I think we had a breakthrough with him. I think everybody wants to hear about this break there. And they're going to introduce you to Tommy Danger Siquijor personal and ask some questions. Yeah let's I think the end of credit score is horrible. I think our goal. I don't know if you're on the same page. I think we should send. We create some sort of experiment. So I wanna hear about your daily life which is non-existent when when you say non existent what does that mean I try. I mean I'm always good to go up to the batter's box and take us couples wings as August out again. Are you on APPS? Why not I was. I was on seeking for a little bit seeking arrangement those and I just about. Yeah or you guys. Yeah I mean it was fun. I just used as a dating app what I know about dating that. You have to be in the hottest APP and you happy will be willing to pay all the hip girls who are hip to the shit of whatever's trendy or becoming trend like they'll be there and they'll be debbie I yet. They're on it because they're down to hang out. I'm so what are you looking for for me just to date now? Relationship Okay Why not just too much going on and I feel like it's a what I call the Climbing marginal utility economic gossip about it as a relationship gets older. Like as time goes by on the horizontal axis like the sex and the fun and everything goes down and the trauma and up maintenance goes up just like after once like six months. Mark is just rapidly declining. So you and your friend. Evan talked about this on his episode of how the sex goes down and women were like have less sex drive throughout a relationship. I think that's because it's in the relationship she does. Yes moment when you succumb to that idea when you subscribe to the notion that people do lose sex drive in a long term relationship of course is going to happen because you've already set your mind to that but I know a lot of relationships were the sex gets better over time because you experiment. Go Sex party. Sex Party bringing a Pegasus. Listen I know pegging I have. I have two feet okay. I'm only going to wear a pair of shoes. I'm not gonNA wear a dozen parachutes all at the same time. I'm not interested in like group sex assigned. Yeah I think we're no no no. No joke gathered other ways just like the more you get to know someone the more you uncover and that's where it gets really exciting after bowl. Yeah I think one night stands are some the worst sex. I've ever had hands down because you don't know that person so you can't actually know their pleasure zones but have you been with them for ten years you know all the right buttons to push but then also you can experiment with other buttons. I'd be happy with that is just that maybe in my experience. Maybe it's just the woman that I attract. Maybe it's my operating level where I'm okay to hang out have fun and do cool things together. As just add unnecessary drama and women will like in when went in there there in the right mindset dill admit that they're causing. You're just making Shit Picking Shit store. You're dating the wrong women then now so went like oh. You didn't do something. Nice for me or you're just being cold that moment. I'm just like I just got home and just like just like my boots off. That's just A. That's you know the little things make bigger is just like that's a product of lack of communication. Yeah that's nothing to do with the woman or the man it's if you're not communicating than your resenting someone for what you haven't communicated tonight that's all at that is builds up resentment. We hear that all the fucking time like men would be like. This came out of nowhere and women be like. Oh It gives you all these signs. But I didn't actually verbally AC. Yeah that's that's just a product of a bad relationship. I mean it's I think that's like honestly from doing this. Podcast for three and a half almost four years. Communication is literally the thing that comes up at every episode.

00:10:02 - 00:15:04

It's interesting every ups. We've never not taught this ever like right. I think so. I don't I don't think that maybe I am the problem. Maybe what I want for me like there are some things that I'm not gonNA even figure out like it. Maybe it's the terrain. Maybe it's a cultural. Maybe it's The Times in Egypt. We are in but I feel like I'm I'm not looking for an exclusive lake. A monogamous relationship mel looking to like figure out. I'm thirty nine almost forty. I figured out myself like if I'm an asshole I'm okay being astle like if someone wants to hang out with me be with me. Maybe she'd been my girlfriend maybe could be somewhat some level exclusively travelled together do cool stuff while meets. I would totally love that you know. And if they're definitely areas in my life Danny to proven communicating. Listen I have a Goddamn podcast? I think I'm pretty good. That's either save though. I think I'm hearing type thing K. Tunnel communicated to very but it's like When xactly but they know a lot of times in discussions with dating and relationships it's like communication comes up in the law times more so than the finger pointing at meant granted awesome. I saw there but at the same time. Some responsibility has to be put on women as well. Because it's like women just how they're wired. It's not meant to be direct but we live in such a direct society so it's very hard for women to reconcile those two. Because women are expected to speak up are expected to speak their minds but a lot of times they're hardware says don't doubt they'll do it. Don't do it so when it comes to a personal context of men and women. It's very hard because men expect women to speak up when Themselves to speak. But it's not so it's like where do we go? So it's tough. It's tough books way but this is the way we see it because this is what we get from. All the couples we interviewed. Show is that you can either see that as a major challenge. That's like the ultimate demise of your relationship where you see it as a really exciting opportunity to evolve as a couple. So what's really fun about that? Is I remember when I first started dating my boyfriend. He called me out so many times. He Beli- what are what do you want like what would make you happy? I just beat around the Bush and I be unhappy about something and he was saying you know in therapy because he went to therapy. Yeah therapy I learned to step back and ask what could help us as a couple move forward. It's not about you. It's not about me about us and that really opened up a platform for both of us to say. Oh if I'm taking that individual out of this and we're in this as a team then we can work on certain tools together to move our relationship forward and that was just so fun. Because you're solving a puzzle at that point no longer a challenge or a burden. I think even if you don't have a partner that's like at that level. I think at least for me like I've definitely I was one hundred percent what you said like. I would be like me to say what I want but how did I not I think over the years I will. I will say a lot of it is therapy to under me to that. Also just experience right like that doesn't work so it's like I think both people need to meet each other. Lightning think it's not a woman it's not a man like we are wired differently. I think that isn't like real just that basic foundation to even just to start at that point in today's age is like that we are wired. Different witter whatever. They just lose their mind newer. We're all the same week. You'll we are wired if they are pregnant until we can complement each other. That's how we're different. I mean people can shit talk this generation of dating. There's a lot obviously that challenging. But I think the thing that is the most positive that we see is feel like historically there was like uneven like power levels between men and women I think couples that are really like thriving that we're seeing are more in that partnership mentality. Yeah kind of like what you just described you. A. How ARE WE GONNA Lake? Do this together like I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. We don't all have to think exactly the same way and we can recognize like I've got an upset. Oh I I can't believe he doesn't understand. This is like so annoying to me. Yearling whatever you take a step back. We're not thinking the same way where two very different people the more like. We have that communication people are more. Just like equals. I think that stuff starts to become less of a problem. It's exactly that and it's just as constant negotiation between two people when I went to couples therapy. All they ever talked about was everyday. Day is a negotiation with your partner. It's not about an ultimatum. It's not about demand it's like. How can we need midway and I think even in the beginning of my relationship? I REMEMBER BEING JUST LIKE UTAH. Me being like I was thirty seven years old. I'm like I'm thirty seven years old. I know myself really well. If you don't like me then you know you don't you can go girl. Yeah you could be with other people because I like really confident who I am and and this is who I am and my boyfriend said this.

00:15:04 - 00:20:03

He's like totally cool. If you know who you are but if you care about me yeah would you consider so good right? Because it's all the years therapy he's like. Would you consider doing this with me? Would you consider letting go of this part of you because I was very much like? I don't WanNa sleep over in the beginning I want to be independent. I want my own bed. It's just who I am. I like my personal space. He's great that's who you are but would you? It makes me very happy to wake up next you. Would you consider man? He's so good I would wake up next to him. You can totally use the same tax you always. Would you consider doing this because I care about you? You Care about me. Would you consider doing this? People aren't mind readers. I think that's definitely something I've learned along the ways like I definitely expect to people to remind readers and it's you can't expect that like it if you say something and then they aren't willing to meet you that's one thing but if you just say anything how could you ever SPEC Yup but I guess you're saying though is like you don't WanNa put it in that effort right now. This is good but I still don't what to do. I'm I'm I'm full Brim. Ahmet capacity in terms of how can I put this in apt analogy It's like I'm working really hard. Become the best basketball player. I can't be but I am five foot. Eight can't jump that really high so it's like why would I like? I don't have high. I go on dates. You know I hook up you know. There's there's some friends with benefits at times here and there but it's few and far between I'm not looking for or I'm not planning to be in a in a very in a relationship let alone a serious one. So it's like I would love to work on myself given that opportunity with that special someone who's also looking to kind of like what you what you're describing that situation like getting really deeper into that and knowing for someone for a long period of time maybe for like three months but no relationship right there exactly. Yeah Yeah so for me. It's just like I got I got my business. My Daytime Job. Got This podcast. WanNa get into comedy scene. WanNa do stand up a lot of fun things going on on my own. So it's like I love talking about this but for me. It's just like yeah. I think I'll work on myself as as a boyfriend as a partner when fifty s or something so basically just not a priority for you right now. You feel fulfilled in other ways. That's okay I mean I think one of the things we've seen is like people are all over the map of what they're looking for like it's definitely not assume that everyone's looking for a long term monogamous relationship at all but I will say this though. We interviewed a startup founder on the show and his whole was. I sleep on my couch at at the office. I'm married to my company. My kids are my employees. I'M NOT GONNA get into relationships. Not a priority. First of all we air the episode like fifty women reach out to him was like I could change your mind. He's our most reached out to guest of a the one that's like I don't want to release. Yeah like flat out by then. Two years later he is. He's now married. Okay now that but when we interview that Lee interviewed him After the fact and we asked what changed and he said this I think is the most interesting takeaway from which was he felt at the time relationships would be a burden or they would distract him from his goals in his dreams but when he met his now wife she actually added to that. She empowered him to pursue his career and his passions. She never dragged him down. She lifted him up even more. Yeah for me exactly what it is. I'm still getting over my divorce. I was married for a hot minute and minute. Two months bullock two months literally we. We barely sent out the thank you cards after our wedding. She's bringing up the divorce and she can even say it she. So we've got buried in September and all are are real honeymoon. We had you know trips and weekenders afterwards but this year this was two thousand fourteen okay. This is not this year so much better like this happened last week filed last week. I lift your show this. We had guys dating for dating or the skin into this. We use for a year and a half before I proposed and we were living together for most of that time. We're both korean-american About the same age.

00:20:03 - 00:25:02

How'd you meet? We met we met through actually. Pk reading your entrance was in some ways. That's kind of actually true. She pay for your breast implants. A-minus cups bladed What happened was So I grew up Christian But I left the church and Similar to Piquet we so we have this. Overlap of talking about are grown up religious but now religious anymore. He invited me to meet up. That's for people who are trying to leave the church. Leave the faith. How and that's how I met my ex. She was also there. So we had a lot of things in common being korean-american around the same age very overbearing parents on both trying to leave the church in the convert ourselves so we had a lot of fun discussions early on and we started dating and we we fell in love pre much right away at the time. I was switching careers. I was trying to be a realist. I was a real estate agent But I'm just not good salesman Apart do you want to know? Where are you going to come back? Yeah it's not good at all. Don't mind the rights there's just neighborhoods roommates. Yes roommates roommates We and then we got a little puppy dog and we're living together. Having a lot of fun traveling I proposed and we got married got married about two years into being together once we got married and I was kind of still kind of struggling as a real estate agent. I wasn't doing that well. Commission job is brutal Absorb for me is trying to get my head off just like head in the clouds like love my wife my my new bride but at same time trying to as a man is like. How do I fix this mess about like? I'm not making that much doe here. I gotTa bring home the Bacon you know. Got A like a a pressure. Prove might prove my worth you know Especially as a new husband is like I figure this out got a free. So do I keep on doing this or do I just back out in something else? That's the knock on me that I was just I. I wasn't really going at it. Objectively and pragmatically eligible dragging my feet in this process when someone else was materially involved the knock on her what she didn't give me enough time Two months we barely think sent thank you cards to our wedding gusts. She's like you want to go to our honeymoon friends. I'm like we are friends. Like what do you mean friends like? No YOU WANNA go John. Hayman as friends. I'm like way what sit down. Let's talk what do you mean is fresh just like I don't know if we're meant to be? What are you talking about? We just got married so that just went down nice rabbit hole. We barely eked out the honeymoon. Who is the worst trip? Ever dig on the honeymoon did go on a honeymoon saw quote we cannot believe which we just thought we didn't follow yet but we just thought we we back up for because this is exploiting the communication staff also much she was just like we're gonNA like quicko France. She never brought up like she was there any literally was asking me. Can we follow divorce and still go on honeymoon together? But she never brought up like. I'm feeling this or like can we like talk about a lot of fights about finances. We had a lot of fights then discussion. But you fought. We bought more than we discussed. And when we discussed it was very hard negotiations. So it's all about finances you think that was the demise this we were not good for each other in the sense that not just like we weren't working on ourselves trying to prove but I like to go hang out and just act a fool and drink and have fun right. She has some level of social anxiety. She does not like drinking. She does not like living in this adventurous thing I have. She has a very stable career for me is like oh. It's everything's adventure. Life is experiment. Let's figure this out. I don't know maybe just opposites attract. You know so for two years at worked for two years. We had a great time. Were you fighting while you were dating? But once we got engaged once that rock singer she got into different boat why not. I didn't realize that finance to like it became like this is about both of us. Were when you're dating. It's your finance your dad different. It's different it's tough. We also interviewed a divorce lawyer on our show and he said I'll surface level. Most couples get divorced because of finance or because of X.

00:25:02 - 00:30:07

Sacks lack of stacks but he said those to actually go way deeper into a much much more prevalent issue in a relationship and it's beyond sex and finances those are like kind of the consequences. Sofer's level easy things to point to you but everything goes down way deeper. Yeah and I. I don't know I don't know exactly what it is. I I've Four or five years move removed from that and for me. I'm still like trying to figure out what really what happened. There you know so. She filed for divorce after the honeymoon. So afterwards we're just trying to get along to get along but then like my career wasn't going so well at all. She just had it you know so. She broke down. I'm just like because she. She needed me to be on board. She wouldn't do it all by herself. She needed meet me onboard with the whole separation process. So I was like okay fine. Let's Stewart it's a sunk cost. Let's just let's just move on. Let's eat you go your way Michael. How many months after you got married? I was pretty much a year on the on the dog beyond finance. She never brought up. What like it was solely finances. She talked about there was nothing else brought out. She's like if you just had a meager salary. Like I be happy with that and for me. I had a tough because we fought so much over that I had a talked by improving. What what she said you don't think he's. I don't think it's a meager. Well this is what we also here in relationships too because people think they're these milestones that will save your relationship. Oh we if we need this much money. We'd be happy if we had a kid we'd be happy and when they reach these milestones through all in my head while called that like what we think of marriage and happily ever after is is what I call a promotion that never arrived like especially growing up Asian American out religious conservative families. Everything right family is the church So it's like for meet. My Dad is just obsessed instill. It's about me getting on the only son to me getting married and have kids and all that so that's just like an all these steps but what I experience with my ex just like no. That's just it's never enough. It's not enough very almost like it's not a not a knock on her. Just the the wiring within us on you know and for me. It's like yeah I know it's not enough. I have to get ahead to keep on climbing the ladder after giving boba grant like it was really interesting for me. It's a shock and I was just soul became a little creek monsters when she would say these things while we're finding because what we need a car. I'm like we live in New York City. We don't need a car. We have right. I have a ZIPCAR membership. We can this right there at the garage. Why do you need to travel? What do you mean we just got back from a trip? What do you mean why are you fighting about? We're talking about our matrimony here. You're talking about traveling. Like what are you? What are you talking about so I realized that you know People can get not just woman but meant to definitely like people can get into. This weird's deep very odd. The awkwardly personal very personal very deep things the heat in a moment when you're fighting but it's all hard to bring out an and talk about because they can a lot of people can't talk about eve address it even to themselves let alone two yard because we don't have the tools to do so if you didn't know how to describe colors you know read was read you just describing his just like this thing right in. Looks like this and you can't use the words. It's really frustrating. This is why babies cry right. 'cause they can't describe what they're what they're trying to tell you and I think for her behavior to say we need a car you travel. It could all be routed down to. I'm feeling trapped. I'm feeling lonely feeling secure. I'm not feeling but she didn't have the tools and I have the tools to. Hey I understand that. Stability particularly financial stability is very important to you just got engaged or we just got married a woman because for me. I'm not going to go to a job for the sake of bringing home the Bacon for me. Whatever I do for a living and how living is what. That's that's me that link intertwined I need to be a hundred ten percent of what I do. I can't just phone it in so however we're going to reconcile these two. I had the tool and people are very different with that stuff. Like some people are all about just like having a stable lifestyle. Did you ever talk about that like while you were dating before you got engaged? Time to take a quick break for our sponsor some basket honestly. It gives me so much anxiety to cook healthy and delicious meals on a regular basis. And that's exactly why I end up eating out half the time and not good but I feel like I finally found my soulmate with Sun Basket.

00:30:07 - 00:35:04

A service that delivers organic premeasured ingredients with quick healthy recipes. Right to your door. I love that. Sun Basket as SF born and Justin Kelly. The award winning chef from the famous restaurants slanted door creates recipes. Some baskets meal plans cater many Diet. Needs and preferences. I Love Venturing into new recipes each week such as Mediterranean Turkey kebabs with carrots and squash ribbons. Are you salivating yet? Well get your hands on. Hand selected high-quality ingredients organic produce and healthy delicious thirty minute recipes from Sun. Basket gets thirty five dollars off your order when you go right to sun basket dot com slash dateable and enter the code dateable at checkout again. That's thirty five dollars off your order. Sun Basket Dot com slash dateable and enter the Code D. A. T. E. L. E. Now back to this episode has ever talk about that like while you were dating before you got engaged. We both had a very tough time talking about that. Yeah we had a tough Maybe it's just our upbringing or just personalities but we both had a tough time is really hard to talk about until you talk about. It just blows that. I think it's like it's like we were saying earlier. It's a communication. It always comes down there. It's so hard one of the tools like you just said but I think it's so important to have these conversations before getting gauge really dating like like money like I agree. Like you're not gonNA be like. How much do you make or something like that? And the lake. What is important to you in like life partner to career like isn't ability. Is it like being so passionate that like you can risk not necessarily know how much you're GonNa make because people have very different risks thresholds and it's very important to hear that and running scenarios were to get married and one person loser job? How would we handle that right? These are not the discussions. We have before before you get engaged. It's like she's Cool. She's pretty and we have a good time. We can cook together and all of a sudden you get married and you're like fuck for doing my all my all. My friends were like. Why'd you Miriam had great sex? What he wanted me simple. Yeah great naked. What do you want me to say? I'm a man but then it's beyond that it's your vr. Matt so you get so. You're you for divorce or you were separated a year in win the divorce happen pretty much. Once you file. That's the beginning of we didn't even have lawyers got broke on those. She's super smart too so she worked out everything I just have to like. Oh okay cool less it. Just wait just wait for the judge to how. How did he break it to your family? How did I break? I don't remember thinking I just had a talk I met with my parents had told them a style working out. He said two months after was when it started to fall apart. When did you actually each year after so we got legally married in July? We had a wedding ceremony. September by November. She brought it up January. We actually made it to honeymoon. Which just whatever. It is crazy In April or May we had a big fight and then June we filed and I left our little apartment. She has the puppy dog. Oh I had a hard time getting over the dog than her still miss. That dog the doctor to do anything. Call me names Yeah and then we filed in June and then once basically once we filed is just waiting for the people to let a fricken blur. I told Julie the so. My boyfriend is divorced and we went out one night and he brought out to his friends were also divorced and they call themselves ex husbands club. I told Julia soon as got out of this event and I was like I had no idea the impact of divorce men because all of them were such wounded birds. And they've taken it's crazy to get look at the numbers level suicides exponential women initiate divorce. This shot online. The men told me they said this is my ultimate failure. Yeah and I feel like I was responsible. WanNa know how crazy this on for me? I went on a date with this girl couple of weeks ago and there was notion dead. I had met her before but I was kind of fuzzy on so when we got together we were hanging out so I brought it up. When do we meet? You said we met before like yeah we met we had coffee like when was this and we're just trying to comparing notes figured out. It was when I had moved out of the -partment. Oh and so. And there's multiple. Instances like this where. I completely blacked out of this girl and I we had coffee about real estate and she was saying things back to me. I was like that's something I would say. Holy Shit I don't remember it as you experienced trauma and loss the same a deck in the family.

00:35:05 - 00:40:04

It's really weird. Because people do backout had no idea who she was? I mean from everything you're saying. I totally see where you're coming from now. Not Wanting to get back in there but this is like the existential debate does the past influence the future right and it's like in some level it does. If you don't want to be in a real ship you don't want to be a relationship but also it's like is it just because like of the past and you're like scheduled to go there again on? Albion total. Exactly that's kind of I love. I love you know leashes I love right. I love what the guys waking up next year. The your voice saying one thing and then your words saying something else. And that's I think that's really unfortunate because with the man I spoke to as well all of them have seeked out support in some ways so one guy is in a legit support group for men who are divorced and they've really helped each other get back into the dating scene because he said that was the hardest. Just feeling that that emptiness of once you start dating because even if you're dating is sleeping around that emptiness is just so prominent like ghost you or just like little things happen all the time and dating magnified when you're already feeling that absolutely so what. Ha What are some steps? You've taken to find support Podcast yeah really. I mean it's like I really find that in his as cheesy as it sounds. I realized I had to be me. I had to be more like me. So getting into comedy. Doing podcast on doing more creative kind of leaving things open ended is like. That's that's really me? I had to be comfortable with that. So it's like the whole me getting married. I felt like I was on autopilot like I was just following rules. Set Out. There's like. Oh my dad's really happy so I should be happy kind of like my family's really happy so they check in with yourself. Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean I think it's it's so interesting because it's like on one side like like we've said it sounds like ultimately it would be great to like find that person again for you and it's like how do you use what you've learned in like approach it differently. That's like the only thing that you could do when you've gone through something like this devas. And how do you do that and Heidi do that? Organically with open mind open heart without having a mental checklist. Now like oh you gotta be. Plus they're the part that's tough with baggage because it's it's it gives you life experience. It tells you like for example like if you now date someone maybe you'll be more focused on like having those conversations ahead of time. I was still like just being like. Oh she's great embed. Let's get married. The other part of baggage is a taints. Like how you're looking things. It gives kind of some negative energy. Sometimes so it's like. How do we take that baggage not make it baggage but make it a way that we can grow from it instead? It is really hard because you're probably a little gun shy. Yeah my boyfriend definitely. Is that way and he also had a very short marriage and engagement period. All that like at the time he felt like it was the right thing to do is also kind of fun to be spontaneous. It's great to find love finish time. It's great then but now he's like I don't know if I can jump into that again with the same sort of like excitement but you also don't WanNa block it your example. You're a different person than his axe right. Like I took like just because you dealt with someone that couldn't communicate doesn't mean that there isn't a woman out there that is willing to like meet you halfway and like really talk about what's happening and like get to that like place. I think what you said earlier. It's interesting like I don't want to deal with drama. There's a lot of women out there that aren't trauma so it's like. How do you find that in like not? Make this not get you to like a happy point or you just keep going and it sounds like you are pretty happy like I guess it's ultimately are you happy right now. I you know we always say like it's about timing and I think we take that word like a little lightly we're like timing is when you're at the same life staff ready for the same things it's not because most people can't communicate whether looking for. I don't know if you're on the same page but I think it's really important to be the same mental stage and that is so heart that's what's the most challenging when it comes to dating is that someone has to be almost like on the same journey as you. Yeah Parallel Life. You know that they want the same changes. They want the same evolution but they might have gone through the same baggage. That's when you can really connect with someone I didn't do it there for a real great feeling and you know we talked about this as well as like women have ways to seek support. Yeah because we've grown up with so many resources of women's magazines are there to support even if they're giving bad advice men don't grow up with those resources so when you do seek them you feel like really loss because you don't know where to go like one of the guys.

00:40:04 - 00:45:01

I spoke to one of the ex-husband's club members. He really. He went out and just sought out all male support group or divorce men. He was able to find a few so. I think that's like one way to really go about doing it. Just hear other people's maybe that's your experiment aerobic h now. It's like twelve meals supports sucker away from Lake with as many women's possible at one time to now just seek only men. Your experiment is kind of life that I don't want to subscribe what the format should be. We can let you out. But it's like what is a way that I could get support or at least look into ways. That could be your experiment. And how does it help me listen when I woke up this morning? I didn't realize this we're going to talk about. We didn't either. We were idea but I do think we came to some clarity today. I think some things are very clear. I want first and foremost Tommy. You're still you ultimately you want to find your person and ultimately you want to be in a loving relationship where you feel supported you feel respected acted number one so you you saying. I'm not ready for relationship ready for this. I have other things going on. I think that's typical avoided behavior. Where you're just distracting yourself from what you ultimately want. I am a partner in the reason why that is out an. I think I would say the same thing when I first met. My ex wife because arm changed careers. I have to be a real estate broker to figure this out. After making. It's going to be commissioned weblogs the whole new thing The reason why I still stick to that because one I don't WanNa look thirsty like not like that but also I think as a guy. I think it's incredibly attractive and sexy woman to see when a man is very focused in what he's doing the building something. I'm trying to build multiple things here and I haven't been. I never been this focused before the Ford like. Oh Yeah I'm GonNa do real estate inches. Hang out meet people and cool but no. I'm really focused on this. I'm really on like hitting another level here. Which a lot of guys do in their late thirties and forties. They reach other level in terms of whatever. They're trying to do along the way if someone is like. I'M NOT GONNA compromise too much of that. Yeah there's just some level of that and if she like what you're saying earlier exactly what you're saying early if she adds to that. Yeah she has real thing. He's a bad answer. So that's awesome. Yeah I mean I'm in the same boat as you because I'm single right now. We obviously have this podcast. I have another job. It's like it is a lie and it's like sometimes I'm like oh it's time for dating but I'm like ultimately I want to be with someone that way then. He is what I want. I I'm trying not to look at it is like I need to do this but rather like this is enhancing my life. Also rate person is coming to support. What I'm doing. I can support them. So it's like there is a lot the it's just how you spin it right like internal if you're starting a business you take investor meetings right. It's the same thing if you're going on dates. These are basically investor meetings. These are the people are investing in. You and I think this is what we're doing if you want to be part of this by all means but you know that's good you know lutely but the good thing about all of this is that you just spend your time wisely you on multiple dates a week. Because that's a waste of your fucking die agree. I think I've definitely got to that point like I've ever had this guy that was like I wanNA chat for three weeks before I meet you and I'm like I'm sorry I just don't know bike. We either get in or get a Mike. This is like honestly all the rollout dates really fast now. Because I don't have time to like talk to Internet strangers. I'm like where either we're going to get along and then I'll talk to you or we're not like you know so it's like all my all my. I don't know what it is really people who want to give me dating advice bad dating vice in the sense that Tommy should be Nicer. To girls on my. What do you mean now I women and asked them out? Hello Nice meeting at the things you like. Nice meeting to. What are you doing Blah Blah Blah? Okay call you want to hang out sometime. You want me to say hey. This is nothing sexual knoppien creek are just won't won't be they're like no but that's why basically you're implying. Everyone should be nice to people like that around. That's exactly I thought. I think there's like this old school mentality of like men. Having to Lake put so much to women and I think like Adachi say like Med shouldn't do this but I think there's like this more sense of equality and partnership a lot of women just want someone that is going to be there for them like supportive and I think the same for men too. It's like I feel like it would be misleading in.

00:45:01 - 00:50:03

You'd go down that same path if you like bent over backwards for some woman and like let's just get to the point the work. Yeah why had a female friend? Who told me she's a sweetest? She's very unique. Told me Tommy should think of courtship. Now I should write her. A letter fears heather It was the the most beautiful day to meet you like old English. That's not courtship. That's being creepy. Don't do ya when you find a true connection with someone. You naturally do things for them. That could be called courtship. That could be called romance but you just naturally on a little a little thing savagely something. Maybe save made me like. She's mood by just a little pepper with by acts like he was just like. Oh I got. I found the person to do anything like sleeping. I like went to get coffee at like grabbed a Bagel and he was like this is like the most amazing thing ever like really like. I got you a Bagel by. I live like I was like I didn't even think anything of it. Obviously GonNa pick you up food. I mean I see. That's the thing like people think these gestures that are going to win someone over but it's a little thing says show that you truly know someone. I still remember like when I lived in New York. I was in a five year relationship for years into our relationship for Christmas one year. He bought me a sling box. And I was like what the fuck you don't know me at all. All you get me was like Bagel a been a top vice cream. I would have been ecstatic. We probably a sling box. Because like I went to best buy and it looked like it was the most popular product. Right you even know me sack for four years. But that's the thing you could be together with some for years and not really know them in those moments that you connect on a first date. The goal is to get to know this person not to sell off your like totally on different wavelengths than that's assigned to. That's yeah that's great to know exactly get out. Can we've given you so many experiment I know are you goes on. We did not get an answer out of you. I don't know there's just so much so so much to do. But our experiment challenge to you is to seek support group sex. No no no sects were tabling club. Okay seek support Support to help you heal more. Because I don't like you said you're not completely healed either and it could be like a gateway in like sometimes it's even like maybe it's even like finding a podcast or something doesn't have to be like in group therapy now like it can be like baby steps to that also great for networking by the way because you never know again. If you're willing to go to group therapy have not prevented you. But we're say the challenges and have to be so it's whatever your comfort level. Is it just a step yet? What do you think is like the state like every every year? The president addresses the state of the Union. What do you think is like the state of data? Let's take a quick break because you know what time it is wine o'clock right. I like there's always a good reason to drink wine and now I feel fancy because I belong to a wine club called. I leave but this wine club is different because it's not just from one vineyard and they tailor each shipment to your taste with I leave. You can save money on award-winning wine that you're guaranteed to love. Because they use your feedback and ratings to curate wine selections personalized who your unique taste. All of my I leave shipments have been spot on and I get to rate each one after drinking it so I leave knows even more about my wine preferences each time sign up now with our link and you'll get six bottles of wine for twenty nine ninety five plus free shipping for a year. Just go to try. I leaf dot com slash dateable. And if you've read all six bottles of wine from your first box you get ten dollars off second box check out. This exclusive offer only add try. I LEAF DOT com slash Dat A. B. L. E. Now back to the show. What do you think is like the state of data zapped wait? You didn't answer our question. Distract deflection. I love it like he's trying to rate question but you didn't listen. I do the same shit with other people go. I recognize what you're doing. Give us an answer. I will answer your question. What was the question like? What are you taking on our our experiment challenge of seeking support. I think this podcast for me like sport for me. It's more seeking outside support. I don't know I haven't thought about it. We'll give you some time to think. Oh I ask you again at the I haven't really. I've seen dabbled with therapy. And just a couple them and a few sessions at a time from it's like I guess I could do this.

00:50:03 - 00:55:02

I guess it could be helpful at the same time. Maybe maybe not. I mean there's other alternatives. I mean some of so much of it is finding the right therapy has. It's like ninety the right partner right like related to an amazing therapist. I've gone to one. That was very mediocre and I actually left the one. That was mediocre. So I'm like I'm not getting anything on this but there's also like online therapy there's other ways than like. Kinda ease yourself in so like. I think there's other alternatives. That don't have to be so dressed. Yup think about it. We'll give you five minutes while we answer your question. That'd be asking you again until you say yes. Basically a state of dating right now. What is the state of dating? I think we're in a very fascinating time when we first started the podcast. Everyone seemed to be going through online dating fatigue. We spoke to so many people sick of online dating. They're like I'm done with them to a break from it. But now three and a half years later one people have at least admit to the fact that online dating here to stay and it is one avenue for you to meet people so instead of blaming it. Br use it embrace it but to I think. Everyone's seeking a seeking connection with like. That's the word that's everyone wants right now. They don't know how to connect with people whether it's in person or online and they're looking for to do that so that's why these yoga retreats are really popular these days some kind of physical activity piece. Retreats Like Surfing Cancer. He's our popular on the physical that you're with other people present. Did your like connecting and disconnecting gassing ties so the word and even last night we were out with Micron Ryan who's like in an accelerator his startup. He's like have you heard of a thing called decelerating and so it's like we're a bunch of any startup. Powders get together. I know breath amazing but they could like Cancun for ten days and then it's just like decompressing and the same with burning man. They have a decompression active event. So I think we're on the decelerating. Her program for online dating where people are no went to take the right breaks. But they're also as part of this decelerating. They're looking for ways to connect with other people. I think to add years to his connection doesn't necessarily mean get married have kids. I mean Yeah Romance. It doesn't NEED TO BE ROMANTIC. Connect- yeah exactly alike connection. I think what state of the day is like anything goes now if you want the state address but I think like I mean. We talked to people in all sorts of configurations like we have like people that have been married for years. That have opened up and are now. Poly-amorous is an open relationships. People that are like bachelors for life in like or women. Just don't want to have children and they wanna live a single life like I think back in the day that was like oh you're a leper if you wanna like do something. That's against the norm and I think this day and age like kind of it's up to you to find the relationship that works for you or you and your partner like it's really up to you if you've been which path you go down. It's a free for all our partners partners but yeah. I think it's actually exciting though at the same time because like I think what's caused so much. Divorce is that people felt they had to like prescribe to one method. I think what's happening. Now is our generation. Is We let people parents got divorced her. They've seen like other people get divorced. And I think a lot of people are hesitant to go to jump into a relationship a Lotta Times. They want to go into the right relationship. And I think what's interesting is. We actually did an episode with Ashley Madison the Cheating Website which was fascinating in the law. The people there got married when they were like nineteen and they were in like. They're a different time yet. Lake Forties and fifties. They were old lake. Older Than Twenties and thirties millennial generation and I think we see a lot less cheating as like a reason for ending. Relationships are not getting into them as vast if they're like I wanNA play the field or I wanna lake discover myself or I want to be the best version of myself lake. They're just not entering relationships yet or they're acknowledging that monogamy not might not be from that ruin ethical sense right. The one thing for me at least in my own head is that just because I'm single or wherever you are in the relationship or lack thereof. Everyone's still trying to figure themselves out. No one is better than the other like. I hate it when on people or like you know. They are certain status with them are engage married. Which is like okay. That's cool but you're not better than me now. You're not all that don't matter and like I want in my twenties and it stayed with me. Obviously because I'm bringing up right now right. I asked this girl out amid at a party so we went on a date and she's just bring up.

00:55:02 - 01:00:00

I mean it's one thing it's too too tableau to bring up. Your past relationship is another thing to like. Yeah I was engaged once a cool. Do you WanNa talk about it. She was taking it back like wall besieged. Kinda like Captain America. This is my shield. You're more than that you know. She didn't really have realized that that to state of the Day Day. State of dating. I think there isn't any taboo topics that are either like back the day. Oh Yeah. Don't talk about relationships on the first day all addicts and everything at this point. It's like I think appealed. Yeah I think also we're in this mentality that there are a lot of options. I WanNa Kinda. We don't have a lot of time. We want to break through the clutter. Sometimes you only get that first date so like if you just have surfaced talk like you walk away and you're dislike. I could go either way on this person he acts. It's better to just dive in there but there's a line there's a line that you go too much dislike yet but I think like those things back in the day though. We're like a huge. No no not to talk for me. I'm very comfortable talking about what happened to me. My Marietta and hoppy weren't like Oh no. You won't know you're curious about but you know so. I think what we can see now just from a trends perspective is. We're we're coming full circle here when only dating for started. It was all about quantity over. Galilee. Those were the times when I lived in New York and I would hear people say they're going on like seven days a week because it was all about back back your coffee date your lunch date your pre dinner date your after dinner date there was just everybody was packing it in. You don't hear these stories as much anymore now because people are becoming more mindful sedating which is wonderful. We're coming back around circling back to a time where researchers at a high level will say. Oh this younger generation are not getting married or they're getting married and a much older age. It's not that we're scared to get married or just more mindful of the courtship process to make sure we're marrying the right person as we've seen the older generations totally fucked that up so we still want relationships. We still want connection we want. Commitment is just. We're taking our time to get there and all in dating. Now we're seeing is one vehicle for us. I think that's the key is like when it first came out in two thousand twelve especially tender. I was guilty of this too. It's like yeah it was so good it gives a game. It was it was exciting early game. Yeah and you're like Holy Shit. I can go out with like ten people this week like and it was like it was almost like bragging like I have all these dates right and I think now because it's one way of many in it's very accepted. A I mean most marriages. I start today on online dating APPS. It's kind of just normalized now. Crazy my experience on seeking os just curious but but disempowers weirded out. But for me I knew from the GECKO. I'm just not really looking for a baby. I money for that. I'm not yet at least But I'm just using as dating you know but those crazy see how these kids like. Twenty one twenty two years old but they're just completely comfortable with like arrangements everything you it's a brave new world and it really is but at the same time they're having less sex you know you've heard about the sector out with the younger generations and they're dating less and they're hooking up less the hookup. Culture is dying down now with a younger generation so it's fascinating because I almost feel like the younger generation have an old soul. He mature them. Me Are the cool kids. Now they're off the phone they don't. They're off the off social media doing all kinds of experiments. I think the other thing that's different now to we can. No we want to wrap up soon. But I think it's like this state of just like I think pan sexual where things are going like. I kneeling before. It was like very blocker. White like you're either gay or straight and by was like that kind of like you're just confused. I think like what? We're hearing from like way younger generations. It's like about the person. Yeah it's not about the CY in like obviously with like gender fluidity like there's just a lot of like change in that regard going onto that. I mean admittedly the little even foreign to me in kindergarten. Now they don't even separate you as a boys and girls don't even call each other boys and girls your everyone's the same right so I think are going to even continue. Take like it does more in that direction it does make you more open to it. Yeah like pretty much anything go. Yeah some takeaways from this. I love that were Dowd Vicky dateable. Podcasts turned around hosting this hijacking. You're gonNA get back CD. We're totally episode question. You usually have guys on this and then near the end of the PODCAST.

01:00:01 - 01:05:00

I turn it around. I like to do this like do you have any questions for me. They're like oh I love. None of my guests will ask talk at all. We're just like on. This topic. Was Sex partially guys. Always a good ice breaker so takeaways that we use the cigarettes but until the end of the dateable podcast concluding remarks. It's the same thing leaving remark slash takeaways. Yeah that'd be re purposed for PODCASTS. Go who wants to start. I think this whole conversation just reiterates the fact that it takes we need to give each other more time and I think this I mean we've been here for what two hours. Jesus Bush states. Don't last that law where you get this deep so like when we first came in here Tommy. We had very surface level conversation. It was exciting and fun and new but this is where we connect. This is where I'm like fucking no this Guy Yeah for sure brings us closer and this is like the memory that all take with me when I go back to San Francisco so might take away. Is the idea of deeper dating? How can we go deeper as posted going casting a wider net? And I hope anybody. Who's out there in the dating world right now? Who's maybe feeling a loss or a little frustrated? You have to give each other more time if you see those potential on a first date keep going late. Don't don't start swiping for the next person because the next the grass is always greener. Once you step on that I should be like throwing my phone against a brick wall when she's NAM tired. I don't WanNa see you. I should tell me months later. I'll reach out to her again. No I don't think it's like about you can't force it. Yeah right that's that's what we've learned. You cannot were situations to happen but if both people are willing to keep going getting to know each other when I say deeper doesn't mean like more times of seeing each other but went every time you see each other. How can you offer into that conversation to know this person? If you don't have it on the first day be still had a good time like if we had left after like just talking about the sex star cool. Yeah and it's like comeback again even if it wasn't like fireworks on D. Why it's like. Heidi like obviously if you had a bad time in like you are offended in any way. Don't go but like if it was like you like the person and Nas like just keep going with it and see what happened. It doesn't even necessarily have to be romantic. How do you keep building stuff and get just goes back to time? It's like in college. Unlike other times. Just organically got to know people in like either developed or developed in do business partner friendship or whatever. It may be so. I think it's just like giving it that space really. That's a fantastic point because again connection is not about romantic connection. You can connect with someone and not want to be with them and not want to sleep with them when it comes to dating. We can't. We can't just categorize someone as a potential or not potential. Everyone has potential for connection. That's all you're really trying to get because the more people you can connect with the more you'll recognize a deep connection with a romantic partner right and I think even like some of these like friends I I was like reading because I was like fascinated by this battalion because I think historically you're like oh you wanna be friends like downgrade right. It's actually ideal because like you can keep dating other people. And you don't get like fixated on one person in an over time. You can see if like they are a good fit for you because you're guards are down just being yourselves. You're not trying to impress all that. Yeah but I think like my biggest takeaway from this is like use your past but don't necessarily make your past holy informed your future learn from your past but don't let it get in the way of like being happy like really hard we've all had traumatic experiences like they range in the Denver and it's really hard not to be like weary of the next person but the reality is that is a different person. You're different now so like how do you work with who you have in like? Who's in front of you not like the past not to bring it back to a teeny bopper movie but I saw five feet apart. Have you seen that many five feet apart of it? It's about it's about kids with cystic. Fibrosis cystic fibrosis. It's an illness. That has no cure and they can't be around each other and when they are around each other they have to have certain distance otherwise they would contaminate each other's air and then they could die from that so in this in this movie. It's about sick. Nikki is the one that recommended it. It's about the kids in hospital. Who Fall in love. They have to keep five feet apart to be around each other and their So in it they talk about how death is scary sometimes because they could die a day for the main character says something though so fascinating. I'm like I'm learning from a twelve year old.

01:05:00 - 01:08:20

Basically but she said you know. Death is almost the same as birth. Think about like you being in a womb and you that's all you know that's the world you know and you know idea those a whole world outside right. That's birth. Death is the same way. It's like another world that's just literally millimeters away from you but you have no idea what it is on their get there so. I see the same. As your past versus your your. Your future is a world that you just haven't even been born into yet so why swim in what you currently have and this is it because a different world could just be right outside the door right. Go Watch that movie. And I hope cystic fibrosis. That was not worth thought. You were going with that. But I like it. He'll cleanse so good. What are your closing remarks end takeaways? I'm still stuck on the group. Sucks thing oh no but I didn't realize like that was very therapeutic for me to bring up all that and also seeking support from from guys who've been through the same thing because it is definitely tougher. Guys I'm still recovering from what I've been through and also just really communicating on on a on a much more nuanced. Even if though even if I'm not really sure about where I wanna be but even expressing that which really hard for a guy to do Like sap saying that step saying it's really hard for men to do something because you're GonNa get stuck in the mentality right self-defeating always say it's a possibility for me to express myself dinner while we should switch it around. It's it's all how we were. It's a possibility for me to express myself better. I think you're a takeaways. A sign that you're willing to do the experiment. Oh I think totally open your like primed to do this. Let's just say yes you off. Let Julie Thank you so much for being on the Tommy Danger Experiment enough last year. We're going to do this again. I share you ever come to us. Athletics now definitely definitely. How do you usually wrap your just like? That's just like that okay. Can we wrap up our way to this? Is like a weird joint episode. We're going to wrap it up. Stage dateable dateable. Podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Find more. Podcast you'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tagged as an any post with a Hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable PODCASTS DOT com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums. Roseau downloadable for free on spotify Apple. Podcast Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.