Season 10 Episode 15: He said YES!

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable. A- show all about modern dating and I will say this every week. I have no idea what week we're in for quarantine. I think I've just stopped. What's this point I feel like we had a countdown and now? Yeah what's the point? I mean I think there's some pivotal things though. It's going to be interesting because we're recording this on Sunday and at least where we are in San Francisco. Things are starting to reopen on Monday. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I feel like most things are already sort of reopened. I was in North Beach earlier and basically all the businesses were booming. I mean it was. Yeah curbside only but still everyone was out. Yeah I was in the Marina in San Francisco this weekend and took a really nice walk. I think the weather here is just beautiful to hopefully. If you're not in San Francisco and you're anywhere else across the world. You were having a good weekend too with weatherwise. They all we got right now. It's nice long walks and I thought it was a really good opportunity to catch up on some podcast so I caught up on our podcast. I definitely listen to the virtual sex episode because it was just so good. I couldn't resist listening again and that I also caught up on kind of dating another dating. Podcast we're actually on their podcast this week so definitely check that out too in a lot of discrete episodes about pretty much all things modern dating as well. You know what Julie I just notice. You are little sunburn. I'm very suffered because I was out for five hours is a weird to say on excited about that and it's just like normal. I no I actually thought that for a minute I was really last night and I'm like what is wrong and I'm like I think I got sunstroke because I was out so long and I'm like this is like actually reminds me back two days when I go to the beach or go and hang out at parks in. I think the one thing that has been really nice about this is it's reminded us of the simple times more. I don't know about you but I feel like when I first moved here. I would always take these long walks and getting lost in the city. And I think that's actually really how you fall in love with your city. If you're just taking uber lift around like you. Just don't get no it the same way and over the years I got more comfortable. I got less exploratory. Because I've lived here now for ten years in San Francisco and I always remember those days that I would just go in explorer a neighborhood or just kind of walk around that came back to me yesterday and I really enjoyed that and then also just being with friends outside sitting at a park. There's something really just a core of just being with the people that matter to and we can't forget that either and we can find ways to make that happen even in this world that's not fully back to one hundred percent normal. Yeah it is a great time to pause and just remind ourselves of the things that we can be grateful for 'cause for some reason. People think lockdown literally locked down and can't go anywhere you can't take walks in fact. It is highly recommended that you take walks. And when you do take walks you can turn on dateable and catch up your favorite episodes full circle and that's a good point. Speaking of walks is to be perfectly honest with everyone. Ever since we went into lockdowns in social distancing working from home dat across the board for all podcasts have been super wonky because we realized that most of you probably listen on your commute or listen during very specific times of the day when you had a routine now your routine is sort of out of wack. And everyone's trying to figure out how to make time for their favorite podcasts. So here's a suggestion from Oz. Just mentioned take a walk. That's the last time I listened to for episodes two. I when I took a really long walk all the way from so much to not hell for anybody not in San Francisco. That's like basically a mile and a half but to me. It seemed like a very long walk. It was a really nice time to just catch up on everything digital audio for me. Definitely when I'm working from home throughout the day it's hard to carve out time to listen to your favorite podcasts. I mapped it out. I walked five miles on nice but I think what else.

00:05:03 - 00:10:03

I've been listening to podcasts. When I've been doing cleaning and also and I've been cooking. I think king is a really great time to listen to podcasts. I put like Amazon Alexa on and then I just listened to podcasts and I chop my veggies and whatever. It's very therapeutic to do it all at the same time the. I can't listen to podcasts when I'm cooking because I'm such a Nubia cooking that I feel like I need to fully concentrate cut. I've noticed taking baths and showers. Listening to podcast is really nice. That's also very soothing. Obviously don't waste water so maybe taking a bath is better and just so you can just simmer but I found myself taking longer showers these days just to make it to the end of a podcast but you made a good point to me earlier. Julie before we started recording. She's like you know you can just pause podcast and go back to it later. Okay Yeah Dirk Yeah. I mean I did that all the time. Even when I was commuting listening to other people's pockets some of the podcast. I listen to or like two hours long and I love it and it's interesting but I had to get off the bus at some point and it wasn't anything personal to the podcast but then I just resumed it when I had a free minute again and it was perfect. Spotify OR APPLE. Podcasts JUST EASILY. Let's get back to where you left off. How convenient so do as a favor if you're listening to this right now. Obviously you are because you hear voices. Can you just to go on our instagram and US into say? I'm listening to your podcast during this time. So we know weighing. You're listening. We will love to know that would be super helpful to us. Yeah and then. We're going to ask for favors. I won't get into the good stuff so the favor that we asked last week to is. We're really looking for more reviews. Reviews help us so so so much. And as you know twenty twenty was supposed to be so many people's years including ours and it kind of covered nineteen through a train wreck to all of it but we want to keep bringing this podcast to you. We WanNA keep growing so favourite number. One is to literally like your phone right this minute. It takes one second to leave a rated a five star rating if you love what you're hearing and then if you're so inclined to leave us a nicer view and of course you don't have to leave five. We hope you leave. We want to hear honest feedback too. So yeah it really does help us improve. It helps us bring you the right content. It helps get higher ranking. Some more people can find us so it does so so much. I know personally I never leave reviews unless I hate something so I know it's just not top of mind for a lot of you and we totally get that but we're kind of just asking a favorite to us if you could just take that once. I get it sort of a domino effect for anyone. Who's not in the PODCAST business? This is Kinda what happens and this is unfortunately the way it has to be done is once. You have all these reviews. Then you get ranked in apple podcasts. And all these podcast rankings. And then they they get they prioritize you in the discovery function so that more people can find you and then the more listens you get the the more resources you have as a podcast like for Julian I to get more resources to get to the topics that you guys have been asking for. We more reviews to get more listens to get prioritized in the rankings. So we have more ammunition to get the resources. Is that crazy or what? But that's the truth. Yeah and then I think the other favor is just tell a friend. I think that's the fastest way to help grow. This is just to tell a friend and I know a lot of you have done attitude told us about that and we appreciate it so so much in sometimes too. You have a friend. That's like oh I don't want to hear about dating. I'm already so annoyed by dating Blah Blah Blah but. I think it's you know that this is not your average data podcast in. We're really here to be a positive enforcement. And let people just take in different experiences and perspectives and find what works for them and religious here. What's happening out there? So you're not alone so I think it could even your friend that might be hesitant. I just encourage them to baby. Listened to your favorite episode. You kind of know your friends best. You know what's going to be interesting to them in that could be a good starting-point it doesn't have to be the last episode. Sir Thank you thank you thank you thank you. Thank you thank you. You're showing our gratitude. There is one more announcement that I did. WanNa make actually before I forget. So if you're not in the love is in the time of Corona facebook group by dateable. I have been alerted by some people who have to search for by dateable because there is a few of the time that means but groups or you can also just go to facebook dot com slash group slash dateable we change the URL to make it super easy. I recommend getting in now because we are going to do our first ever happy hour virtual happy hour this week.

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Yeah on Thursdays. So you if you're listening to this episode either Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday. You still have time to get in we do. We'RE GONNA make them smaller groups and more facilitated because I don't know about you we've kind of expressed the sun some interest before but it's a little overwhelming just going to a video call where there's hundreds of people just chatting so or not even hundreds but even when it's over five for me. I personally have trouble with it. So we're going to make these more small and intimate. It will have multiple rooms that people can kind of jump around and play different games and ways to get to know different people so it's going to be excited and I'm personally excited to meet some of our listeners from all over the world and it's a good time to get out of your bubble sometimes been living in San Francisco for so long that I forget this. A there's a whole world out there beyond San Francisco. You know what else to I. We asked people what they missed the most about just life before quarantine and a lot of people was said just meeting New People. And I think even when you're in quarantine yeah you might be with a significant other. You might be with roommates. He might be with your parents or even if you're not or you're alone and you're still talking to friends on virtual means but it's hard to actually meeting. New People in that time and there's a certain energy that you get from just talking to brand new fresh people that you have no baseline with at all. So I think it's going to be a really good opportunity and especially a lot of you have already been having conversations. Virtually in the Group. So it'll be really fun to put some faces to the names for sure and let's get into our episode for this week. We've talked about gender roles. We've talked about traditional ways of dating. And then the modern ways of dating and our guest today has taken matters into her own hands and proposed to her now fiance. This discussion is particularly really relevant for all of us today. Because it's about just taking control of your love. Life DOES HAVE TO DO WITH GENDER ROLES. But it's not really highlighting general's is just about. Why wait for things to happen when you can make things happen? Is this fascinating because you and I did this. Whole list of our twenty twenty dating runs that we thought were GonNa take on twenty twenty and we did this right before corona virus so we actually actively refining that list right now given what we know but one of them was this increase of women proposing to men. And I don't know about you but I've heard of a handful of stories so when we when I I knew Lauren actually met her in a storytelling class. So I don't actually know her all that well but we kind of immediately hit it off and at each other on facebook and she's also like an ad in dating facebook group so yeah I remember her posting her story on facebook and I'm like we have to get on the podcast but you also knew a couple of people so we had a few contenders for this story. Yeah it's a major trend but it's also it just shows you that people don't give a shit about who's the one proposing anymore if you're ready to marry the love of your life then you ask for their hand in marriage doesn't matter if you're a woman a man child no it can't be your child but you you don't. It's we say it's going to be a trend. I think in next couple of years it will be more mainstream. But it's definitely not still and I think what's becoming more mainstream women making the first move and some of the stuff we've talked about on this podcast so it'll be interesting to see why that next level of sing. I love you I or asking for marriage like those still feel a little off limits even with all the change that's been going on or maybe now signed for North America to catch up to Europe all my European friends are like what proposals. What why what's eight? Why why even bother with proposals? You just say let's get married cool. Let's do it. I mean I think also just with Corona virus all the economic downturn that we're going to have I think it's going to change weddings completely and also the other added wrench of this romantic. Love story we're about to hear is that Lauren did have to cancel her wedding because it was I. It's Cova nineteen so we'll also get into what happened there and how she dealt with that. God Okay let's get to the juicy stuff here's Lauren. As modern data becomes more modern. Some of my old school thought about dating it gets thrown out the door. Julie because I feel like when we first started the podcast I was like no men should make the first move. Men should ask the girl out mentioned propose and now I feel like anything goes.

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You know it's weird because I feel like blur staged come to terms with women making the first move like making the first move on dating apps even asking on the first date. But there's still something like taboo about proposals for whatever reason and it's actually kind of crazy when you think about it because this is like the biggest decision of your life right like why would you just be like laying passive when you're not passive in any other areas of your life. Do you know why that is is because ninety percent of Hollywood movies wouldn't get made if women were the one doing the proposing because if you think about all the wrong calms the main storyline is always the woman waiting for the man to propose. Why can't he commit. Why are you proposing? Did he find a ring? The ring that the one that I want. And if we're removing that problem then all these movies would have no fodder okay. So I don't know about you but I feel like all of my friends. Even though once got proposed to so many of them have been the one pushing can planting the seed. Like I had a friend that literally took an ad from tiffany and put it like on the laptop of her significant other. Like at that point. Just ask like it's so passive rate. My girlfriend is a graphic designer and he was at the airport one day and she's like Babe I sent you this this design I made and he's like cool. He opens a ring that she designed. Oh my God but never mentioned it that she wanted it for herself. She was like look in this cool design. But anyway we're we're trying to say is our guest today. Her name's Lauren is the one who proposed to her now fiance and I think it's. It's something that I think it's a great way to start off this conversation of changing gender roles but also just like. Why did we have the traditional ways of doing things in the first place like nobody ever questioned the why so Lawrence here with us today? She's twenty nine years old. She lives in Santa Cruz. She's been there for two years originally from Danville in California which is in the East Bay for anybody. Who's not from nor cal and she is currently engaged. Hello Lauren Levy. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for being on our show and thanks for being part of the five percent because according to Brides magazine only five percent of women in heterosexual relationships have don proposing in a survey done by Glamour magazine. Seventy percent of men said that they would psyched. If a woman proposal. No Shit seventy percent. I would say a hundred and ten percent. I don't know but if you look at like old school male gender roles they could feel like there's something being taken away from them so I actually think it's surprising that seventy percent is totally on board but then they think about the financial upside a woman proposed saying and they're like well actually. Yeah that sounds about well. Let's start with Your Your Story Lawrence O. Before we get to your proposal. Let's hear about how you and your fiancee net. So we met on okay. Cupid has saying thanks. Okay because we both kind of over date. Dang like we have been on a couple of just kind of bad dates in. We were just kind of giving up on the idea of like Ma- online dating's a little bit weird and so we're both kind of thinking that we were going to delete our profiles and then I ended up being like I'm going to go on one more date before I delete. Okay cupid and it happened to be With McCulloch N- McCullough N- lives in Santa Cruz. I was living in Danville at the time at all. I Love Santa Cruz like to visit and I was like okay. Well if the goes badly which it probably will then I will just dip and go to the beach and so that's going to be great but if the date goes well and we fall in love and get married and I can move to Santa Cruz. So it's a win win situation. I'll drive over the seventeen so Yeah I drove down and We'd met to go get Sushi and when I saw him walking across the street. I don't know what it was. I just immediately was like. That's my husband like feeling like that's my husband's I know you said you just don't know what it was but was it. Come on. There must have been something I just you know. And it's so funny because I mean he is tall but that couldn't have only been a hit. The first thing I said to him was. Oh my gosh you're stall that's the first thing I could have thought to say to him but I just he just had this very warm smile and he was just very sweet like when we hug he was like you a great. I'm so excited to meet you. And he is so sweet enlighten very chivalrous and it was just really nice to meet somebody who you only see pictures of them on the Internet and then you just hope that they're not control when you show up and then life. They ended up just being gorgeous and sweet and kind and chivalrous like is basically everything you want out of a dating situation Played Out so nicely and I just knew that he was gonna be my last molest first date.

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Okay see you do this when you saw him. But when in the relationship for you like this is the Guy? I'm GONNA marry or was it from day. One you really dislike believe that I've really felt it from day one but then of course it convince myself like no crazy people say that so. I I need to give it a little bit. More time on we went on this really awesome He's really outdoorsy end adventurous. I am like a true California House cat. I like to stay inside and just like hang out in my in my backyard. But I wasn't like a rough in it Kinda girl but he had convinced me that it'd be a good idea. I go camping so we ended up going to salt point state park and we just spent the entire time like. I packed like my car. Full of like a giant fluffy debate with things that you don't take camping but I was like at least what we the end and he just kind of rolled with my punches and leg. This was really like oh. This is so great that you brought this. Even though it's like not the experience that he usually has when he was campaigning. Or like I was like I brought sun dried tomatoes to put in our Omelet that we're GONNA kick over the Campfire. He's like Oh Jeez but he still you know like an. I brought the ABA Kado toast. What exactly and but it was so great because we spent the entire time just hanging out at camp like really talking about our values and what we really appreciate about life than about the ways that we grew up in our family and friends and it just seemed like our values were so perfectly aligned. We're very different personality wise. He's very very introverted. And I'm very very extroverted and we grew up in very different worlds but our values were like so perfectly intertwined that I was. I don't see this happening with anybody else. I've never had this experience where someone just gets me right off that and yeah to this date for a fight except for when we're really That's you know we're very harmonious couple. And when did you guys start having conversations about marriage? It was never something that we sat down. We're like okay. Let's talk about marriage. It was just sort of one of those things where you know you see on facebook than all. Your friends are getting engaged in usurping. Oh that's very interesting by childhood friend. Who has been with her boyfriend for one year? Just got engaged. That's very interesting. We've been together for two years and like so. These things will keep coming up in started just thinking about when would be the right time to take the next step. I guess I dropped a lot of hints like that. I wanted to get married. We eventually did have a conversation that just came up like very casually over for dinner. Something and I just was like I could only see myself marrying you. And he agreed but then I was like yeah so just like whenever you're ready I literally just left it at that. You put the ball in his core. So does this but I just love those timelines. So if we're GONNA let's go back well. Route did verse of the story. So you're camping trip. How far into your relationship was this like pivotal moment for you? Let's take a quick break because as you all may have known already we've joined a new podcast network. They're called the FROLIC NETWORK. And we wanted to introduce one of the other fabulous podcast in that network. Hey everyone I'm Katie and I'm V and we are this. Lesbian ship is intense. We're part of the FROLIC podcast network in our podcast. We covered TV shows. Movies and really any other form of media was being characters. Leap breakdown shows from Queer point of view. We Gush over our favorite ships and we critically analyze the impact of media on our community. Check US out on Itunes spotify soundcloud and now back to this episode. How far into your relationship was this like pivotal moment for you We have been dating for about a month of. I just realized that I was like this is like he is like the one like I. I A very early and I think he felt it too. We said I love you extremely early in the relationship like we both kind of felt like maybe we were jumping the gun a little bit but what is extremely early literally it was. We went on the camping trip. And then the next week We both were just overlooking a sunset over in Santa Cruz. And I was like I would really like to say some words if you would also like wild passive events eventually. Eventually he was like yeah. It would be cool if somebody would say those words and then we ended. Finally he broke in Houston.

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Will I love you all you saw so we said I love you really early in the relationship you know. It was a month and a half. I usually like to take a little bit more time with that kind of stuff. Because they think that real true love really builds over time and with you understanding each other's little quirks and at that point we were still really getting to know each other but I just felt like his core. Being was just so good that why wouldn't I love him? Just right off from the start. He showed me who he really truly is. And I. I don't know I'm still so at. What point did you decide? I'm going to do the proposing. Okay so after a really long time of dropping hints we also discussed a little bit of timelines because I did want to be conscious of couple of different things that were going on in. Just our perspective lives so for example McCullough N- Needed to finish school. He's actually currently in school right now to be come a radiology tech so right now is super super committed to school staff. And I didn't want to put too much pressure on him to like down payment on a very shiny objects firm he when he is like trying to pay rent and pay his way through school and I was also you know I had just moved down to Santa Cruz. We really just building our roots in building our home up and so when I started to think about it was like I don't see a world where McCulloch will propose to me just simply because of where we're at in our life and the pressure that men have to feel when they have all of these things going on now there is. This added pressure to buy expensive jewelry. Which by the way has its own crazy history to it liked the de Beers. Diamond Corporation created a marketing campaign. Said that you need three months salary for a lake. Some made up rule that they decided what was gonna be the new standard now every man ever since then because of a De Beers Diamond Corporation feels like they have to make all of these sacrifices that it's the thing that women want more than anything in the world and when I really sat down and thought about it I was like this is a really huge investment that McClellan feels uncomfortable making right now because he would rather plan for our future. And what do I really want out of SIS? What it really want is a husband and partner and like teamwork and it's not really about getting a ring or a giant you know dazzling proposal for me is really just saying the words that you want to commit your life to being someone's team. May and I was thinking about that more and more and then listened to Interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren and Elizabeth Warren proposed to her husband. Oh no way yeah. They were n very casually like he was teaching a class and she was like you did great. You were so amazing. They're so amazing. That I wanNA marry you so get married and it was literally just that and when I heard about what she had done I was like that is the chilliest coolest thing I've ever heard an entire life. And why couldn't I just do that? Lake take out the middleman and not have to put down a whole bunch of money for rang and not. I've never waited around my whole life for a man to tell me what to do. So why would I do that now? And I just went for it and I started planning. He had no idea he was surprised. That like you know you had that conversation about like you could see each other being married but there was no lake builds up to this at all. You were just kind of like I'm just going to run with it. Yeah we had that like very casual conversation and it was a lot of me dropping hints and then me also saying the uncomfortable look in his eyes when he would look at the price of of rings and I was like. I can't talk to him. Which is that's not what this is about for me. What this is about is having a love that that is going to last and I don't WanNa put a needed pressure there so I'm going to take the pressure off and that's going to get us off on like the right foot. It just kind of came out of nowhere really. I just googled Elizabeth Warren Proposal and all these tax proposals agreed vanity. Fair article showed up and the title is Elizabeth Warren. Proposer a husband. Because that's how she love it. When was this because I'm trying to think because we were you and I put together like a list of our top when he twenty dating predictions. Of course this was pre corona virus. Were refining this list. Now of what happens after but one of them was increase in women proposing. So I'm curious I mean Elizabeth.

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Warren of a Subic was a while ago right. Do you know the over thirty years ago the city I'm thinking about that they have Miranda proposed. So it's not like this hasn't been around but I feel like it is gaining more and more traction in recent years like clip become more mainstream. I'm guests in the next ten years. I think so too. I think there's a lot of pressure right now. On men to kind of make this I move with apps like bumble that are out there and other sorts of ways of initiating conversation and initiating getting what you want like we're being told finally that women can get what they want and all you have to do is ask for it and I don't see why that should be any different from you know in your career to in your relationship If you want something you gotta ask for end like why just beat around the Bush drop hints and make everybody uncomfortable printing out like take a figured out of a bag. You think that's not subtle buying facebook ads and targeting him okay so back to my question. This is like what like two years in like. How where are you in your relationship at this point? Yeah so we were a twitchy to in her three. I'm like how long have we been together? Because we've been together almost four years okay this summer so we were about Yeah we're about two and a half years. Then when I decided that I was going to propose in living together at that point in San Bruno Out. Yeah we had been living together for about a little bit less than a year but it had been going so great like it was. It's the most harmonious living situation. We live in four hundred square feet. And we still haven't killed each other through this quarantine style of test. That's true love a lot of alcohol but Lauren. Everyone wants to know right now. How do the proposal go down young? I I love the story so we so my fiance is super super into Endurance bike packing and Endurance Mountain biking and he wanted to do the Arizona trail race. We met up in Sedona beautiful beautiful place lake. There's nothing like it. It's just red rocks in. It just floored me the first time I went there. I'm like this is the most beautiful places I've ever been. This is exactly where I want to propose. So I had like a little Silicone rain that was like the makeshift things biker. He doesn't need a metal ring so I had it in my pocket and I was driving there about sixteen hours driving down being light on propose. I'm GONNA do this. I'm not going to chicken out and then With him down there and we had a great time and we decided we were. GonNa go on a hike. He actually found out from one of his friends who he had been biking with about this wonderful trail on musical. It has the most beautiful view of the entire value all red rocks in the background. But then all this lush greenery and usually there's no people up there and I was like great yes absolutely. Let's go on that hike so I didn't even play on it but it sounded so beautiful that I was. That's where I'm going to do it. That's that's what we're GONNA do. Funny thing is the morning that are planning on popping the question in right before we decided to go on that I started having issues with my heart. What I thought was a heart attack was just anxiety because I was so scared to put myself out there like this. Like you know when your life you have this dream that like your prince charming is. GonNa get down on wor when you then you decide. I'm not going to even give myself the option of having that. That's a pretty nerve wracking experience. I kept having all these thoughts in my head. Not that he was going to say no because I knew he would say yes but I I had all these feelings like am. I going to regret not giving myself the traditional on experience and I started to get really nervous about that. I ended up having a budget issues with my heart so I was like after the hospital so I went to the ER. They checked my heart. They're like everything is fine. But you're probably having Some sort of anxiety. John What are you anxious about an I told the nurse Was OUT COM. Sedona that you had the incident my morning of this is the morning of my proposal and then I turned to the nurse and hours like well. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm planning on proposing to Girl get Outta here go get your man right. Your proposal wake. I hope you have good healthcare. Grohl you should come to the ER and so I get out of the emergency room. Mccullum is like so. Do you still want to go on the hike? Yes I feel great. Let's let's leave the Er and go on this hike. When we were hiking up the mountain I had this little gem.

00:35:04 - 00:40:00

From why those hippy? Dippy gem shops for the tell you that the crystals are going to absorb like bad energies. Out of your body. Those are all over SEDONA. I have so many nice the best and I had this little. You Know Turquoise Rock and I had it in my hand the entire time I was scrambling up this very rocky where they said that. There was a trail to the top of this mountain. The trail was very rough and the terrain was not easy so as niece scrambling owes for a whole bunch of rocks in rock climbing while holding this little leg. Turquoise Crystal Thing Colin's like why do you have that in your hand like I don't know I just need it us? You're he's you're acting show weird and we finally gets to the top of the mountain i. It is the most beautiful view I've ever seen in my entire life. There's all these beautiful spinning thus and there's no people up there so we literally have all the states to ourself the skies. Were getting really really gray and I was really worried that it's GonNa start raining on us and desert. Rain is very heavy so I was really nervous. So are up at the top of this mountain. Were just hanging out. And then I put my little anxiety rock down and I take him over to like the edge of precipice and I'd like take his hands and then I was like I can't do it I can't do. I can't do it and so I look in his eyes minimally I was GONNA say something. I forgot ha ha. He was like okay whatever and then like turns to walk away and I was the dumb idea. I don't know why I thought I could do this. And then it started. Thundering like not even a slight a little bit of thunder. It was like thundering all around me but there was no rain and I was like. Oh okay it's going to start dumping on us and taking this as a sign from the universe that I need to just do it up to do it so I went up to him and I said okay. I have to ask you a very important question and I know that we've talked about it a lot but I love you more than anything in the whole world. You are the only person I could possibly see myself building a life with your my family and I know it's GonNa Sound really cheesy but do you WanNa hang out with me every single day until we're dead weight went and then I got and then I got down on one knee own. He wanted to get. Yeah got down on one knee at my little bring and he was shocked but he also had the biggest smile on his face pressure on he was and he was so happy and like it was so sweet but then our entire time trying to go down this mountain he was just completely silent and I didn't know if it was because I had done something wrong. And so when we got to the bottom of. I'm sorry did I just take away like an experience from you? And he was like no no. You didn't like I'm just shocked that you did it. This is this is really cool. Like this is really cool. I just wasn't expecting it. And then he told me he was like I was also especially not expecting it. Because I have my mom's Reagan for post you like next week no way. Yeah Yeah Cow. Well that's when you know you're on the same page exactly and I was like. Oh so now I'm rocking his mom's rang so that's very sweet very meaningful but yeah I just so funny I was like we've been on the same page this whole time. But yes he definitely was not expecting me to to pop the question because of just how little I had talked about it but you know when you want something you just go out and you just go get it. I love him so I got him. I love the he was planning at two at the same time. That's so that is so sweet so we hope couple on our show. Brian Tahara their story so he proposed to her was very elaborate but he he proposed he also gave her a ring to propose to him so they did a mutual proposal. Yeah and maybe this whole now. I'm rethinking maybe. The trend is not so much women per mastering but maybe this mutual proposal. I love them you. Because that's like all about equal partnership which is really what we all want. I think what you said. Lauren really hit a chord with me. That it's like so many men I've witnessed like friends significant others and male friends feeling this way to it is all about like the pressure of the ring in like purchasing it and doing all that but at the end of the daily that is not what marriage is about at all so. I think that part about like what is it that I really want out of marriage. And if that's what's holding us back like it's kind of silly when you think about it. Yeah absolutely and which so. Funny that Lake. I think he had felt all of this pressure to get me something shiny new because that's what we're advertised. Every single time in.

00:40:00 - 00:45:12

Its there have been people out there being like. Oh it's Tacky to give people hand me downs. But I love his mother's Ring. He did spend a dime on it. It looks fantastic. I'm super super happy with it. But if he never gave me this ring I would still be so excited to be engaged to him. It's about so much more. I think it comes down to like knowing your partner to because there are some women that really do want the shiny ring right. I'm not saying that they shouldn't get that. And that's a discussion. That also needs to happen. Like do you feel like you guys always had this feeling like this these conversations about like men and women equality also because I feel like that is another piece that is could go amazingly well or horribly wrong depending on just people's war views also absolutely and I mean McCulloch always known that I'm super feminist and I believe so we'll heartedly in an equal partnership in our household. It's very much one of those things where it's like. I do the cooking. You do the cleaning like we do things together and I tell him every single day that. He's my favorite teammate. Because I really do feel like that is what marriage is for me specifically as it's just retreat each other as equals. We always take the other person's feelings into consideration. We have compassion and we work together on everything. And because that's just the value that I build all of my relationships on not even just my romantic relationship but you know my friendships work. That way too. I think it was one of those things where me proposing and kind of taking that step. It didn't feel like I was taking anything away from him. Because we're not people that are particularly tied to patriarchal tradition. It's just not really something that either of us are super down for some people really like those traditions. And that's okay. That's okay if the guy really wants to propose in plan a really elaborate thank. I'm totally not knocking. Anyone who wants to have that be their experience. But it's also nice to know that there are other options out there and it can just be fluid for each couple's values needs you. Part of this discussion makes me think. Why is it that we're so hung up on the man proposing? And why is it so exciting when the man proposes and I really think it's because this is so sad to think about? I just had this epiphany that we spend our lives trying to live other people's narratives if you think about it it's like ooh this narrative of the man proposing with shiny ring. It gets girl so excited. So she can share with our friends at her family over social media. That's a narrative people wanna live and the narrative you are living. Lauren is a narrative that is not very much. Like it's not champion at all. We don't hear that so much so we keep saying this narrative then maybe it gets that excitement building because we just like people just haven't lived at yet and that's kind of like where I really feel this discussion going. Is that whenever you feel? Compelled to feel a certain way or want something step back and think about like. Why is it that I want this? Is it for myself or just to live in someone else's shoes and feel their excitement? Yeah some trying to think too like why. Some women are jumping on this trend. Where some are distill like really wanting things to play out the more traditional way pay. Let's take a quick break so we can all do a mental health check in in these unprecedented times. Some of US may be experiencing unprecedented feelings for me has been feelings of helplessness and uncontrollable anxiousness. So I WANNA know. How are you feeling today? You know working on my mental health with our wonderful sponsor better help has ensured me that. I'm not alone in this better. Help offers online counseling with professional credible and compassionate therapists safe and private environment their counselors specialize in depression relationships a trauma areas with three thousand. Us licensed professionals across all fifty states. We make it easier than ever to find help and it doesn't have to be expensive flake. Wouldn't you think therapy would be and even offer financial systems now for database? Only you get ten percent off your first month with a code dateable guess started today by going to better help dot com slash dateable simply fill out a questionnaire to assess your needs and get matched with a suitable counselor again. That's better help dot com slash dateable and use the Code D. A. T. L. E. for ten percent off your now back to this episode. Some trying to think too like why some women are jumping on this trend where some are just still like really wanting things to play out the more traditional way as I can think of like including you probably like four or five other people I know of that have proposed to their husbands or fiancees in like the last year and I would say before that I don't know if it's a combination of just getting older or the times changing but before that I could probably count zero so I think things are moving in this direction but I think there's always been this feeling I hate saying this.

00:45:12 - 00:50:03

It's Kinda the same logic of like not saying I love you. I like for whatever reason it's like as women. We want to feel like men are really devoted in they care about us and they are the ones that like that they picked us. Yeah exactly like us and I feel like sometimes when we make the moves. It's like almost like admitting defeat and I think that's like mental model. That's a lot of women have. How do we kind of like overcome that in? Go to more of like what you're saying is no like it's not saying anything about our relationship like I'm confident our relationship and it's more about us being equal partners. Yeah that's a really good point and it is very interesting that idea of Lake wanting a man to pick us. Because that's exactly what was going through my head when I was basically playing chicken trying to get McColl into save the. He loved me I even though we felt it at the exact same time when we were super early in our relationship I think it just comes with like women need to understand that they have power and agency over their own thoughts and minds and narratives. And if you want your life to look a certain way then make it so but you really have to look inside yourself. Figure out why you want it. Is it because everyone else is doing that thing or is it because you WANNA love? It's like you know what your parents had and it was so sweetened. Your Dad was really romantic with your mom. Like everyone has a reason for why they feel the way that they feel about things. A grip on Disney movies like just always wanting to be swept off my feet always wanting to be kissed but never thinking about me being the one doing the kissing Brian. That's fascinating especially as a person who is very in charge of my own body autonomy in sexuality in my adult years but spent most of my most formative years being very passive person. And now we're kind of in this generational ship where women are less and less passive or just going out in light in bad asses getting done and and really just running their own lives and you know not waiting for other people to tell them how it's going to be and I think when you take that attitude new start applying it to your relationships. I mean it is something that you have to have a lot of communication around but if you are truly going to spend the rest of your life with someone who shares your value system than asking them if that would be something that they're open to like what if I proposed to. You would love to see what guys have to say. Apparently seventy percent would be so excited exactly exactly coordinated Glamour magazine. But women aren't even asking the question because they already have it in their minds that oh no you wouldn't like that. He wouldn't want that masculinity taken away from him like maybe he would. I don't know like you should talk about it. You know for me. I'm super conflicted about this. I'll be super honest with you guys because I think as an elder millennial it's hard for me to shake off some of these traditional wants by generals from third party. It's really easy for me to be like. Yeah go girl go get it. You're in control of your life. You go get your man but then when I set back into my body and I think well actually. I personally still want the proposal. The web anything. I can give a shit about proposal I want. I thought about this over and over again. Why is it that I want that? And it's really because I don't think so much to me it's not symbolic of the man choosing me it's symbolic of a man wanting to make me happy and wanting to make me happy in a grand gesture and to me it's like. I think by him proposing to me. It shows that he wants to make me happy for the rest of my life. And that's why it's important to me and I. It's really hard for me to let that go as much as I love to. Sit Back and say yes. I can do the proposing I think I just. That's a non negotiable for me. I think that's totally valid. It's so interesting is when I imposed. I shared my proposals story on like various wedding groups that I had a joined. I got very very mixed responses. Most people were like. Oh that's amazing like that's so incredible. It's so cool that you did that but like not a lot of people said oh. I also did that like it was mostly just people what you're saying being like. Yeah go girl. That's awesome because it was like something that was very personal to me and they were happy for me but that might not just be something that they want to do because maybe a proposal means different things to them. I don't think that people who are really want their partner to propose to them. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. There are some amazing proposals out there and I watched them unabashedly all the time.

00:50:04 - 00:55:06

Even though even though I am the most like I took my proposal. Extremely casually like literally just drove to a town. I had never been to with the ring being like. We'll see where we end up and we'll see how it goes like. I didn't really plan mine at all when I see the level of planning that people put into their proposals. I am floored. Shocked Amazed N. Delated laying an egg if people want that sort of grand gesture. There is nothing wrong with that because it's also really cool. Someone would put that much effort into into showing how much they care and I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. Also girls can plan those big grand gestures if they want to but APPS. Every single person is different. Everyone is different in what I am. I totally agree with you. I think it really comes down to like whoever with having those conversations in understanding what your values are like. I'm personally like I'm kind of on the campus. I do WanNa get married because I WANNA partnership with someone for life. But I don't really care about a proposal I don't WanNa wedlake like I'd rather elope with someone like I'm just not that type of person and I think what I'm really digging is like this joint proposal idea because I think it really aligned with my values of like. I don't need to be surprised like I want to be having these conversations like building up to it already that we're already on the same page and we're doing this. It's yet to each their own. There's not like one right way. There's not the woman to do at the man should do it. It should be joint. I think it's really a conversation that needs to happen between partners absolutely I think the red flag should be raised wing. You are waiting. Yes you're you're you're desperately waiting for that ring and proposal. That is a problem. Because then you're being passive and you're being aggressive. I actually I think like I don't WanNa like Ding any of my friends. That did this but it actually just like kind of bothers me these like really passive aggressive ones that we talked about earlier because their whole premise is like. I need him to do it. It's he really doing it from a place of like he wants to. When you're constantly pressuring I feel like it's kind of like counter. It's like you're telling yourself a story that this person did this and like have his grand gesture and made this whole proposal. But did they really like? Would they have done if you weren't doing all of these? Like sneaky things on there so yeah. If they're doing it at gunpoint is it really love love but like at that? Point Lake. Should you just do it like? Is there really a difference like are you think there is a narrative that their sleep? They can still tell like their friends that their guy proposed to them. But that's really all it is right there. Yeah Yeah and the problem is how we have these conversations. I remember when my parents came and visited. We were at dinner. My mom looked at my boyfriend straight up and like when are you guys getting married and I was like way. Why is a his decision to get married and I also had a girlfriend over the other day too and she also said the same thing to him. She was like you as not getting older. And I'm like wait. But why is that's a lot of pressure on a man to make him feel like he's the one deciding if you two are getting married or not? It should be a joint decision so we need to change a conversations around this absolutely. It has to be a two way street. Otherwise it's just it's not cohesive. Yeah then it just becomes very transactional right pick you now your mind I was GonNa say another fund twist of your store here is that you have this great proposal. Everything is all. He's excited and you're planning your wedding in covert heads. Yes Kobe some what happened. Gosh okay well. We were supposed to get married on June fourteen to so like a little bit over a month from now but I knew when I first heard Cohen stuff was happening way back when I was like. I'm not getting married this year. I'm not I can't do it like I can't. I can't have a wedding because for one I moved my wedding date up. They wanted to have a long engagement because it was like. Yeah what's another year with another few months but my grandma is ninety? Four years old and my mom has early stage dimension. I just really wanted them to be as prison as possible for my wedding but when Cova happened I was like Oh nobody is coming for this wedding. Nobody is going to be able to fly out here and I have no choice so I guess I am getting the long engagement overall so luckily I was really smart in my wedding planning process.

00:55:06 - 01:00:10

I hired all of my friends to be my vendors so logistically everything worked out fine and my guests all you know understood and it really kind of went off without a hitch for me but there are so many corona breads out there that are just struggling and it lights really breaks my heart because all these wedding groups and I see all of these women who are just broken up about the fact that they can't have their wedding this year and I kind of just for me personally. I think that you know it is totally valid to grieve over the loss of getting to celebrate your with with your friend. I think that is a very very valid grieve but for me I was like. I don't think that I need to necessarily grieve it happening this year. Because I'm literally signing up to spend the rest of my life with McCulloch so I have the rest of my life to have a big party with food and symbols of love exchanged and what I have to do is without being legally a wife I have to use this next year. Especially as we're dealing with the shelter in place laws on Mike. This is the test run for being a wife taking care of your partner through the hardest shit that you will go through and this is business. What marriage is all about really without having the wedding? I already feel like I have just entered into marriage and And we'll just have a really awesome next year. Great I mean I definitely see that perspective. It's like okay. It's unfortunate right and I think it's tough when you feel like something's happening in a month and then you realize like it's not and we don't really know when they could actually happen again but to your point you are signing up for a life together like what is another six months another year in the scheme of things. I guess though do do people in the Group. Did they like knocked. Get money back because I could see that being like a big hardship. It's it's really dependent on people's vendors in where they are in the country. There are definitely some people that are not able to get their money back or they were working with vendors who are being really irresponsible about their refund policies. That's why I always always always suggest to people who are planning their weddings. Whether you're in the middle of a global pandemic or not is always gets stuff in writing. Always make sure that that section has a clause for if any sort of unforeseen circumstances light wildfires. Were disease or anything like that. That couldn't have been foreseen is going to impact make sure that there is a clause in there that you are going to get your money back or at least that you're able to get your money. Transferred right heartbreaking stuff like I really feel for those fries in groups out there. I do wonder that with so many complexities and headache. Some weddings that the future weddings speed much simpler. You of these zoom weddings happen. It just seems so drama free in front of their computer and boom. I mean that's the flip side of it is like yeah you could just wait like you are doing and just say like okay. We can wait another year whatever it may be but the other side is. I don't know I'm I guess I'm maybe the wrong person to ask because I've never really been excited about a big wedding anyways but I guess the flip side of it is is like we're so in love any weighs less. Just do this like who cares about the party. Who Cares about the celebration so again? It's to each their own. I don't WanNa say like one is better than the other because I think a lot of it just comes down to personal preference but even like before. Cova nineteen another trend that you had on our list was just changing weddings because I feel like newer and more people are saying like fuck all these expensive like. I don't WANNA pay a year's salary for a wedding one night right lake. Let's do this in a different way. That's maybe either smaller or we elope or it's like I had a friend that did like literally immediate family and a dinner after like there's just all sorts of weddings that are happening. The standing she'll lutely end the big piece of advice. I'd give people as if that's what you want. Make sure that your family does not get involved because you will not have that. It's it's one of those things. Where like I totally agree. I think that people especially now. They're doing these drive-by weddings. Where like literally? They stand in a park in their friends. You're just in their car watching them get married and for them. It isn't really so much about the pageantry Weddings are really cool and pretty fun. I'm really looking forward to mind but oh man I would just love to have had a celebration in a restaurant and then just go to my honeymoon right after fight.

01:00:10 - 01:05:11

I had so many other people like you know putting pressure on like your only daughter to be there to celebrate you in that I felt like I had to start pleasing other people and then I was like this is not in the spirit of why I proposed in the colon. I propose to him because this is what I wanted to do right now. I'm doing all the things that other people want me to do. So by the time. This whole corona situation calms down and Redo eventually have our wedding. It's going to be full of a lot of things that are going to shock my family like the traditions that I'm shirking the fact that we will not have a chair covers because why why. Why would I have chaired covers? Like there's no point and I'm totally excited to just cut costs and just cut stress where I can like. Simplicity and minimalism is like the is the trending thing we got a con. Mari are frigging wedding industry. While we needs to. This does not bring me. Joy does chair cover. Bring me joy is not. This is a great way to kick off some takeaways. Because what I'm hearing from you. Lauren is you've basically gone into this buffet of traditions and you picked and chose what you like and threw away the ones that you don't like and I think that's how we should look at life and look at love and relationships that we have all these traditions that have people have done in the past and then we have all these new experiences that are popping up and it's your life so you're in control of saying I like this. I'll take a little bit of this from the old traditions and I'll take a little bit of this from the new stuff. What I really love from this wedding. I went to like years ago. Was this couple during their vows. Said we both come from very different cultural backgrounds with different traditions. And we're really excited to create new traditions together and I thought that was beautiful. Because that's what people should do in a in a relationship so to me. I've come to terms with the fact that I pick and choose like for example. The tradition set. I want to keep our the proposal. Yes but the dress does like when I watched say yes to the dress. It does nothing for me like shutting that off it does not interest me. Also public proposals like in Ballpark. Or whatever like in front of a thousand people that doesn't interest me for some people that exciting. That's not something I want. It's like you do. Yeah and you choose. What is it that you want to keep? And what are the new experiences you want to bring in? Yeah I think for me at the takeaway I have is. I mean we talk about this through. Everything is like our relationship is all about communication ultimately. This is another conversation that happens of what they want in life like. That's something we're already having these conversations like. Do we WANNA be married. How do we feel about marriage all that? And if we're not having these conversations like let's have these even more because it's just a way that you can kind of re frame what traditions exist then learn with your partner like what works for them. What works for you in like. How'RE WE GONNA like? Make this work for us and I think like would you a. You had certain ones that you want to keep for me. I have different one threat. Like how would anyone know that if you didn't have a conversation like no one can be a mind reader of like the traditions people want to preserve in which ones others don't and I think it's really just like there's no shame in just having it be an open thing it doesn't mean that someone loves you any more or less like if they're not like doing all these grand gestures that you may or may not even care if he really have in the scheme of your love life and you take takeaways from you? Lauren you've given us so many but any new ones. Now I think that definitely you guys hit the nail on the head with so much in in it's been really interesting to think about in the span of just like my love life journey. How much other. People's expectations really came into play in so many of the pivotal milestones of my love story and I picked one that I just was willing to sacrifice and kind of flip the script on it but they're going to be so many other milestones in my marriage that I'm going to have to contend with what the world wants from me and with the world wants from my relationship or not even what the world wants for my relationship. No one actually cares mad. I have expectations for my staff and I need to be the one to work with my partner and communicate on what those are going to be and I think that that's the best advice that anyone can take into their marriages thinking. Some tradition is great. If that's something that is meaningful to you but if it's not you can get rid of it and you can make new traditions and you don't have to do the things just because everyone else has done them or because other people want you to do them you get to have a buffet at your life and decide what you want on your plate.

01:05:11 - 01:09:23

Absolutely I think the like final one I have is just. We've said this before it's like taking control of your love life like why would we sit passively for anything like I mean I think like we are all starting to ease into more and more gender traditions breaking like? I think it's becoming like we mentioned with bumble. It's you have to make the first move as a woman and I think it is breaking down the barriers on other dating apps too and I think more and more people are making that I moved to like ask someone out and why not these other milestones like I love you. Were proposing marriage like specially marriage like. This is a huge part of your life. Why would you passively wait for something like that so yeah? I think it's all about taking control taking control and you do do you in the words of John Lamb for that but this is You know what I'm going to offer this because I just thought of and I think it's brilliant if anybody's GonNa zoom wedding and you like for dateable. Podcast TO OFFICIATE A. I'm from the Universal Life Church Online Universal Life Church. You L. C. Dot Org okay. It's legit so I can't even remember it a certificate and all so everybody wants to be the first wedding to shaded by the data podcast. I'm tolley down. We're totally down to to offer be live recorded so you could have it forever. We won't even charge you for like the Viagra that'd be free you cheap ass amazing wedding. This is the route. Thank you for telling us your lovely story and I really hope that we'll hope I know you're going to get that wedding that you wanted and this is just the beginning of your life together. Yeah this is like the most memorable way to start it. I know one last offering if anyone does take us up on this Zoom wedding we can even have your proposal be in Sedona with a virtual background dough mountain. Some this is amazing. Yeah we'll be vortex somewhere you could just choose the war tax get your. Oh thank you Laurin for coming on this. It's so nice to hear the story because I think there is something about just hearing that other people are doing it. Hearing the reactions were positive. Look I think that does give permission for more more and more people start making this enorm- absolutely big you so much for having me. I hope that we can at least get six percent of people proposing to their nil spouses. Now I I really. I'm really excited about the future of love and relationships. What you guys are doing with dateable is awesome and that this really spark a lot of really great conversations with some couples who are ready to take it to the next level if anyone out there has done a joint proposal. I want to hear about that because I think it's super interesting to hell. Yeah we're going to put that on our turns sweet all right. We're going to wrap this up. Stay Bethel dateable. Podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Find more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle asked dateable podcast tag any post with the HASHTAG. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website. Dateable PODCASTS DOT COM. There're you'll find all the episodes as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums Roseau downloadable. For Free on spotify APPLE PODCAST. Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.