Season 10 Episode 14: The Art of Virtual Sex

00:00:00 - 00:05:04

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show about modern dating. Have you ever thought about what your voice sounds like over the phone? Julie TURNS PEOPLE ON. I have but I okay. Good bet that I actually really like virtual sex like well okay. We tell me. More going there About telemarketing okay. Well everyone's already read the intro of what this episode is anyways so it doesn't really matter not hold anything back but I think I actually discovered bape. This is my fetish fetish right so when I did long distance back like a year ago I discovered this pre cove. Nineteen that there's something really sexy about being virtual and I'm not saying that I would prefer it to being in person with them. I definitely wouldn't but I would say by Expedi- that I did long distance with. We had like our kind of like what's up. What's up video and things got a little spicy. You know I'm not GonNa go too deep because you know I gotta keep. Something's personal but it was hot. I enjoyed it very much. Who instigated these? You know it progressed. Okay so we had talked about it before he left because our first stint of long distance he just gone mean. It wasn't a long stint. It was just over the holidays when he was going back home. And then we had experimented then before we like long distance and we had talked about it before he went back. You know. Keep it a little spicy. I'm not really sure how. That's conversation. Got Instigated. I can't really remember but I do remember like when we were doing like long distance over the holidays it starts to feel like we were just like having these really like you know. How are you doing? They weren't really good conversations and it felt like we were like coming friends. If felt like a way I would talk to you right like it was an update of our lives and it just wasn't sexy at all and then there was one night that was like are tipping point and. I think he was like out at the Bar Beforehand. So he's probably like a little sauce and he started to remind me of sexual encounter. We had Soviet started to like replay that through tax and then it started getting a little hot and heavy in that I remember i. I was the one that was like I want to hear your voice so then like went into phone and video. Oh Do you think though? 'cause see what I'm gathering is how this all started was reminiscent hot moment. Yes do you think people can do for hot virtual sex without ever having had sex with each other before so by personal opinion is it's a lot harder like I think you can have like sexting with someone that you've never met? I think that might be a little easier even though sometimes that could even feel uncomfortable but I think like actually lake I dunno like having a vibrator out doing something like very sexual with someone. I think you need a tough sex before. That's my personal. Take because as using your memory to arouse yourself I feel like the one time I had really hot versus someone years ago was because we were already having really hot sex as rights and the times we were apart he would just send me these text messages that he knew which buttons to push. But if we didn't let's say let's go as far as we have never had sex but we didn't we were having sex a sex wasn't that hot. I know that button can now though so I don't really weird situation. You were for this but it was so I had ended. You know what I'm talking about entity relationship with my ex got he left the US because he his visa ended and went back to the UK pushed about in that I was really digging guys from the UK. I mean they have really sexy banter and accent and all of that and I was just.

00:05:04 - 00:10:04

That's your fetish. I'm not trying to finish. Is it a tire nation? I'd like we talked to a British woman she like. I love her accent but we like to go to London at some point. I know I really just love the accent but I think I never was really that into it before my last boyfriend the one that was from the UK. It wasn't like it was like liked it when I when I found out he was from the UK is like Jackpot. You know. This is good anyways I met this is start talking to sky on hinge. That was super cute. Like really attractive. This was like yeah probably like I think we broke up in like May and this was like a like July so it wasn't like immediately after but it was still in the vicinity right and we start talking on hinge and I noticed in his profile just his language like he talked about the pub. In just like there's like third in like Britishisms right that I picked up on then I was like are you from like the UK originally and he's like actually I lived there. I'm just visiting San Francisco so we never actually met up. He tried to meet up but I was kind of like what's the point but for whatever reason I don't really know how this kind of escalated. We kept talking. We just like enjoyed talking. It was fun and Banderas. And we eventually added each other on facebook and just talk to each other all day long like it was like a lot of talking and it definitely like started to escalate. It started cheeky. Like fun things and that it was like flirting on sexual like like so we would like hardcore sex alec humiliated if anyone ever saw that facebook string so anyways Give a hack into that. Also then we took it to the next level and we did a video call so we did our video call. It was not sexual. I think maybe like I showed a bra or something. But it wasn't like it wasn't like a real thing right. It was more just to like meet and get acquainted and like see photo me angry. Here's one boob discount after all that sexting. Oh Hey this is what you look like. It was kind of like to see if the photos matched and we are both like our good with this and we did a second one and things like escalated a little more and it wasn't bad but it wasn't good either I think I was expecting it to be like my ex because I had such fond memories of that time. That's what it is and the story. Now that I'm saying ladder. British replace the other British guy. Like fuck sorry. Sorry to get so many emails after this but anyways I think where it really wasn't the same was I didn't have an emotional connection with someone and we didn't have passed physical connection right. Think in this quarantine time. It lends itself better if you have had an established relationship with the person before in. Maybe you're just quarantine 'cause you just live with roommates. Were you know? Your relationship isn't at the level that it's like we should be living together right so I think there's many `in-betweens and I think those people could really thrive in a virtual sex situation but it might be more difficult if you just met off. Like bumbler hinge. So yes and no and this is why. It's so important for us to have our guest today. Ed is because they're to to two trains of thought here one is. You can use virtual sex to deepen your connection in your relationship. You could also use virtual sex purely to satisfy some of your sexual needs all the nine hundred numbers zero x operators back in the day all the virtual sex and you could have with complete strangers. Obviously it's fulfilling. Yeah SORTA PLEASURE FOR SOME PEOPLE RIGHT. I think for us. Maybe we prefer to have that emotional connection I but maybe some point if this quarantine goes on for like let's your fucking virtual with every just right. Yeah I mean I would be the biggest virtual sex war. I just want to sleep with everyone. Just let's see what's like so it does fulfill this animalistic side of us. That maybe you just want to use your imagination to have sex with a complete stranger. But there is an art to phone sex and virtual sex how you instigate it how you talk about how you use your voice we I fascinating. That's the best conversation. I had the sporting so I did a mother effects no at the same time.

00:10:04 - 00:15:00

Okay places I should never be the same sentence together so I had a mother's Day virtual brunch today. 'cause I am in California? My parents are in Boston and my brother and his wife or New York we did like virtual lunch. Brunch and my mom and dad were having some trouble getting on the virtual like on gloom. Sister Laud I were talking before they were getting on. And she's like I had really dig a dateable lately. I've been just been an enlisted. All this stuff she's like. I busted admit though I actually thought thumping our last week's episode was going to be like virtual sex and I was really interested like oh it's coming. It's coming this week. Be dumpy could definitely we could. We could turn that around. I mean something such a new term we might as well make it more positive and sexual just for your sister in law. I love these conversations. It makes me so happy and then your parents were like we've been on this high actually video. It's and your mom's like actually I was really interested in taking up mother's Day actual a whole new level but that is what this this episode is about. It's about virtual sex and how to be good at it and it's not just about like how to get off but how to really like cater to your partner that you're having virtual sex with and how to use your voice right instigate these feelings and to progress in that sexual adventure. You're in a half. Oh presume so I was telling a friend of ours Last night we were talking through taxed and I was telling her about just like actually Louis. She's the one introduced to Michel. Who's our tie? And she was like we were talking. And I'm like you know I think my fetishes I really just like birtles. Facts virtual sex or something about like being through the screen. But you're like engaging with them but your non they're like it's selling hot about it and she's like how do you get good at it and I have no idea she's like how did you learn how to do it? I like it was a you course. They had over nine ninety. Nine five weeks I enrolled now. It's kind of like I think what I love about this episode to is. That Michel Really Lake breaks it down and it's not like all or nothing like I think you think a phone sex or video sex or whatever that you're just like you know going from zero to one eighty immediately and he really shows that it does not have to be like that and there's like a lot of ways that you can ease in with reenacting physical touch like that could even just be like holding someone or holding hands or kissing. You need to like fucking you right. So it's another form of communication of how you show your partner that you care about them and how you're thinking about them this kind of a funny story. I just thought of Julian is so okay back to Louise's questioned how you get good at virtual sex. I think if you read erotic novels and stories it does help because it helps you to develop the language around. What virtual sites could sound like so back in the day when I was like a struggling actor? I was not going where you're going. He was like. Did you know you can make six figures? Gluing VOICEOVERS FOR EROTIC. Audio Books It and he's like you can do it in the privacy of your own home and it's really thought he was doing this so I'm like. Please show me your ways. So he showed me this audition that they were taking Sample voice rules for and he's like just read this excerpt in your home record it and send it over to them. It was such a hot excerpt that I couldn't finish reading it because it made us so horny it was so well written and I couldn't do the voices even because my voice is cracking. I just couldn't because it just really transformed me into this scenario which was like at a massage parlor. It was very it. Was one of those like massage. Parlours where everyone's hot and naked and just it was a very good story anyway so from that moment. I didn't end up getting the GIG because I didn't end up recording this this audio real at all but I I started thinking about what are some ways that I could arouse myself just words alone. Well that's first of all. That's why they pay the big bucks. Schools do not see for easy to do right. No skill in there. I think it's interesting because I like.

00:15:01 - 00:20:04

I'm not claiming to be virtual sex expert in any way I basically are can come the number of times on by hand of how many times I've had virtual thinks it's not that many the one part is that I'm not actually is not something that I am very comfortable with. Is the talking putt piece? Like actual like so. I don't think it needs to be kind of all or nothing like it was much easier for me when I had a partner. That was the one kind of leading that I was more like chiming in on it. I'm not I would love to learn how to like kind of instigate that bit more continuing education unity one. I well I do want to take a moment here because if you decide to take a break from all your virtual sex. I will like to our sponsor for this episode best fiends. I've talked about best beans before because I was searching for the best mobile game. Play during this time of social distancing and this game kept popping up as one of the best so I downloaded it and I am happily and healthily obsessed with it. The game is it's free to download and basically takes you through a series of challenging puzzles. That are fun but also engages your brain and it's great because there are a lot of cute bug characters in the game and they make me smile so much it's like having little critter friends around me all the time and now level eighty three and I keep progressing and every month they give you new games to play a new level so it never gets old engage your brain with fun puzzles and like tons of cute characters trust with over one hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best teams free on the Apple. App store or Google play that friends without the our best fiends. I gotTA catch up to you on best friends also own a different level which is not level eighty. So should we get into it? We hear from me. Shy Our guest this week. That's talking about virtual sex phone sex virtual sex parties. There's just so much going on in the space right now. Yes before we get into it. We have two requests for you. If you like us. If you want to be our friend this would help us from endlessly one is. Could you please leave us? Review an apple podcasts. For us to keep going with the show for us to attract more sponsors. We need more reviews. That's just how this this business works. And that's how we can keep delivering free content to you all so if you leave us a review that would help us tremendously. Yes the other announcement we have is. That were super excited to partner with front line. Foods SA- frontline foods is a grassroots organization that supports communities during crisis such as Kobe. Nineteen I think you and I both really want to get behind a charity and we were super excited to learn about this. One one of our past guests actually judy from season five episode. Fifteen in sickness is actually part of this organization so we felt like it was a great one to partner with but also just love what they're doing. They're basically providing meals from local restaurants to responders impacted population. One hundred percent of the money raised goes directly to restaurants across the country and basically in return. The restaurants will give food to the people on the Front Line. So really great. 'cause it helps us like support. The restaurants also pull that need their this extra support in this time so basically if you'd like to make a donation you can go to frontline foods dot org. That's frontline foods dot org so. Yeah we're just excited about it and we wanted to spread the love and share with all of you. That also might be looking for some causes to get behind really great. 'cause cool so should we get into it? I guess nobody wants to hear about virtual sex. Here we go. Let's do it. Nisha take it away a few weeks ago. Julie revealed to us that she went to a phone sex webinar and we didn't really go into detail about that except a few people remembered it and they were like tell us a little bit more. So guess what this episode. It's it's getting hot in here because we've got Michelle. Who is the man behind the phone sex education but also just virtual sensuality and I think one of the major conundrums people faced during this time is how to how to get it on? You know how to get their physical needs met and it's a real problem so Misha's here to educate us just a little background about him. He's he lives in San Francisco. He's been here for five years. Originally from Berkley. He's thirty eight years old poly-amorous n single inactivity. Going on dates is a life coach sex educator with the mission of evolving the national conversation around men and sexuality. He runs workshops on consent and phone sex and he's also launching a virtual sensuality events company.

00:20:04 - 00:25:05

Hi Michelle how are you? I'm great it's such a pleasure to be here. It's it isn't we're like doing zoom call with only two other girls not naked or are we will ever know I mean I can certainly remove more articles of clothing more. Don't feel the safety right now with talking about sexy getting central because there's right the distance create so much safety doesn't it yes. Some really does so we have some post on our facebook group and they said you know if people whose love language is physical touch. This must be really hard time for them. And what are some ways they can get around that and still get their needs met so I would love to learn more about what your events and your your education with what that entails. Hopefully I hear that touch touches so important to me literally broke right before covert hit. I was literally writing running. Cuddle party workshops for men just because I believe in touch night believe in Texas healing powers and I I received a very clear message from Cova. The Dow is not the time for big cuddle parties. Our big physical touch now is the time to get really really good. All the other forms of sensuality including including self touch. But one of one of the things I love the most about phone. Sex is that phone. Sex is an amazing way of gaining access. Your own body because through fund Often not always but mostly touching yourself in some way and it doesn't have to be Ryan when I say I'm picturing running. May the backs of my fingers along your neck. You might during phone sex. Do that same thing with your own hand and you might discover your body through your fingers through what I'm describing. This has actually been a big thing that people have given me feedback on him after after discovering phone. Sometimes my workshops at like I've discovered my own body in any way like I'm finding myself touching myself sensually in a new way during phone sex and it's been beautiful. I just want to point out that you have the best phone. Sex Voice. Really Jess is a weird. I'm getting a little turned on since the beginning and started talking at a loss for words right now I was like. Oh you have. This nice microphones for podcasting. He's now this phone. Sex podcasting is is all about my business which is folks but this is the thing so. I talked to a few friends about this phone. Sex idea and all of them across the board said. Isn't that kind of antiquated? Like did our grandparents have phone sex. Who has phone sex anymore? So Michel. What's your argument for the benefits and advantages. I love this question so much. Okay and really with phone sex. I really am about like old fashioned. Whatever but like I am talking about non video I totally into the possibilities of sensuality through video. When you're incorporating both sound and visuals but there's a real beauty in the constraints created by by exclusive phone sex so a couple of things first of all when you're oriented towards a screen right so if you're gonna be long distance sensuality would say with a partner and you're doing it through video. Which most people do now. You're orange towards the screen. You have to arrange the screen such that. You look good. You're thinking about how you look right. This is the same thing where you've been on facetime call with deliver like half the time. You're like adjusting your own hair because because hide the image of yourself like you're looking at yourself. Zoom has actually a wonderful feature where you can really not see yourself which right you can put the person full screen and minimize herself such in general. Even if you aren't orienting towards how you yourself look which puts you in your head. You're still orienting towards how how you look and then you're your visual. You're limited by whatever the size of the screen is. You're you're kind of looking to the screen to source your turn on. You know what? That's such a good point. We've talked about it before too on this of like the benefits of just a phone conversation team sex out of the equation versus video in. There's something about not having multiple senses that you can just here in that you can really just get in. I love this like uninhibited view with sacks. That can come from that. I've not like having all those just. Yeah everything that you're worried about. Well I'll go on like not only. Does it like free you from those inhibitions but it allows you just very concretely right before getting into the the more stress have allows you very concretely to land your bed. Put the phone usually cell phone next to your head on speaker. And now you've got your lovers voice in your ear and you've got both of your hands completely free could even close your eyes. And that's a much more conducive environment to get into sensuality and getting fantasy than anything where you have to like Orient the screen or prop it up. Hold it or right desk. Where the desktop? It right like like phones lousy to actually forget the technology to nong ranting towards your device in any meaningful way except that it has to be within the General vicinity of your head for to work.

00:25:05 - 00:30:01

But I've found it amazingly effective just to have it a foot or two away from me at on my bed and be in. My Body succumb being in my body. It's the closest thing I feel to that person being there. It can burn your ear. You can whisper in their ear and it. It gives rise to the ability to imagine really sweet things. So not just like billy visceral Like intercourse but a things like I'm you right now. That's harder to really get there if you're visually seeing you're like I'm holding you you're holding Z funds accession. It can actually be amazing facts. In fact I find that I've been starting to do this with my friends. Not Phone sex with my friends but using the phone call where I'm on the phone with like a guy friend over DC. My best friend. Where I just did this day whereas you know right now I just really want you to close your eyes and picture. That were hugging. It's sexual meditation. I love that because I feel like we've had people like the US point of like. How do I fulfill this need? And maybe they're not ready to jump into like a virtual sex party right now but they're wondering like is there a way that I can have some sort of physical need met whether it's like a hug or kiss or anything like that and we definitely would love to hear have other ideas but I think just like visually thinking about it is definitely a step in that direction and I do want to get to the virtual sex parties in? Oh Yeah I wanNA work on some technique with phone and I WANNA test of Julie was evil. Why any of the techniques she from your workshop. Oh God how did someone who's never had phone sex even start? We're Sephora play. I think I think one of the most. I use the word phones. Ask because that's what people know it as but one of the things I really WANNA start is like. Don't think about phone sex as like intercourse which you have to. You're forced to describe intercourse. The first step to getting used a phone sex for someone who's never had phone sex is to be sensual with your partner on the phone and I would recommend starting with imagining a massage or a hug and describing that getting comfortable with your central voice getting comfortable with your your what I call the class. Central exhales essential voice. I'm so glad you asked so our normal speaking voice right is tends to come from our throat right. You can kind of hear it. It's a little nasal. It's more it's more airy. It's more bright and chipper in this unique communicating like professional adults. The central voice comes from your pelvis or your belly a best way to ten the sense it is just do what I do That remind Regina a I feel like are the initial things I thought going in and you address this in the seminars like phone sex kind of feels like it could be awkward and even just like learning like my sensual voice and all that it's overwhelming. I've loved this idea like start with a massage like other other ways that you can help people ease in. Oh totally I mean. One of the things to think about is is. I'd like to share central energy with you rather than like. Let's have phone sex because again like the semantics. Religion put a lot of pressure on people. Just just being willing to be with a partner in in what is even even without describing Cox pussies and everything a very vulnerable place being anything but like my normal professional self. This is not vulnerable but being in my body and sharing that with you via via sound Israeli vulnerable. Because I don't actually have any physical evidence or visual evidence that you're not sitting there with the phone laughing at me right. That's the that's the vulnerability that I actually love about. Funds and so both people are entering into vulnerability just by saying right now lover. I'm just picturing holding you like that's a hugely vulnerable thing. I love that that feels so low risk to which I think really nice about it and then you keep easing in a bit more. So then how do you ease in fees on and we'll well what do you? What do you mean exactly when you say? How do you like can you escalate escalate? Because so this is what I think person. At least you can use your fingers or your hands and you and you can escalate physically. But when it's purely verbal how do I take it from a picture myself holding you right now too? I WanNa fuck you like how. How does that? How does that even happen? I would say that you're doing a lot of listening to the other partner in a tuning to the other partner. One of the lessons from my workshops. Tonight I really believe is that phone.

00:30:01 - 00:35:01

Sex is sex like a like a two minutes. The most important thing really listening to your partner presence is the most important thing right to menton presence. So what's the VIBE? That's happening is feeling really slow in central or is it feels like and you can usually tell each other's voices you can really tell like what level of turn on is starting to happen so I would say you would escalate slowly. You Jeff Right just like you might in actual sex you would start to like explore each other's bodies would start to maybe like an tune into each other to see if that's where you each want go. You know right so like one thing I get from. A lot of men like heterosexual men is saying. Like you know the they'll jump into Ri- right just like in real life jump into the hardcore fucking because like that's what they think they're supposed to do like I love if I can just make another argument for phones XS of too weird thing to argue over but like male performance is is not the same thing and that's actually a huge area of just just that alone like you're you're really juicy phone. Sex is in no way dependent on the man's erection. That's a really good point. I think like to you as question. You would never just go from like cuddling to saks like immediately like unless that there was that natural progression like you said that things escalate through touch and I think like you can do that. Same escalation just through your voice from. I'm cuddling with you too. I'm touching your or whatever it might be like instead of just fall on and and what I've found. Actually this is really really juicy for for lovers have been established and this is actually a perfect skill. I've developed it because I'm poly have lovers that are long distance into or that don't live with me. I've ongoing relationships with with a really good phone. Sex relationship established. You know if she's feeling really really turned on at some point. We might go from like she might call me up in the middle of the day and it might be. We might do pretty hardcore. Foams sewn sex like fucking within ten minutes but because we're already so they're right he might call me up and be like lover like I'm ready and that won't be me bring myself to orgasm necessarily but it'll be a very sexy seen all leave energize and turned on and like super excited like there's all sorts of different ways right so you're the other thing about sunset is that you're not constrained by the by the physical in and you really. Kinda are with even even with with zoom sex or or FACETIME SEX. You really are constrained by the doesn't like if he's talking about hard cock and you can see his caucus saw like trying to fighting right and then with sex you can also just really go into fantasy can put myself in a castle you know or I can put up on spaceship. I put myself in a forest on a beach. I can put you on the sand like feeling the waves lapping at your toes are on a bed of hot dogs. That's that's where I WANNA be. Whatever your here's a question asking for a friend for anybody hasn't tried phone sex. Would you advise that they practice alone? I or should they just grab their partner and just dive into it? I think I know very few people who have their partner but they are with suggested doing phone sex in a slow and respectful way. Wouldn't be excited to it. I think almost any partner or any partnership could benefit from the level of shared vulnerability of being new to it and the biggest thing I would say is absolutely practice it with your partner right away and just take the pressure off from getting into stuff that you might be having a hard time describing like. Don't make this like okay. We're going to have this do for our course our way through it. Just be like I just like to enter it like. Let's just try it for like a minute and really take the pressure off to look what I start with. In the advanced sessions I move people through the levels of abstraction so the first thing you start with is literally. What's happening to you right now? I am currently running my fingers over my face and stretching fingers over my shoulder muscles and running them over my chess right like. That's literally what's happening where you're describing what you're doing to yourself. Yeah so that's that's that's level one. Got It okay. Softening level two is an picturing or imagining or. This is what I'm doing to you right. And you've Reached some level of abstraction or imagination. I love that I love starting with yourself because that's so much easier and less awkward to just like put that out there. Let's juicy part phone sex. It's like you're in. Everybody thinks sex is like are you hard right now or lever like are you. Thanks show me how what you are going to do this kind of like Erin tent sexual face and has no like phone. Sex is is all about sensuality.

00:35:01 - 00:40:00

All about taking the time to like turn yourself on just with the quality. Your voice sounds like the kind of action that might not turn you on in bed. Physically with your partner will really turn. You'll be surprised. At how much hearing that partner described that action? Will you think super interesting in your Is called you call at workshops seminars. Like what is kind of your terminology? Okay in your workshop. I think you mentioned a point that like this is a really good time to explore some like different sexual needs or kingston or like different things. That could be there because it's a low risk way to do it again. I'm not saying that you should tie yourself up by yourself in your home. That's probably not a good idea but Missouri recommend that Barbour. But could you like say that in say like I'm visualizing myself doing that? That's a really good way to explore it and see if it's something that you could even be interested totally an what's so what's so juicy is like. I love that example. Let's say that in a scene it's getting hot and heavy and I start talking about. How tying you up. And and you're giving me the indications that's really working for you right so off. Say this this is important point like a big party phone sexes. Whoever's listening is giving one's and liking verge of the phone you don't want to be trying to have sex with a dead phone line right physical sex you can like. Silence is kind of more accepted like I would never put impose normative Phone sex. I'd say that unless pre-negotiated most people should interpret like dead silence as something's not right. I mean extended silence like a moment of silence is beautiful thing to share but like. I'm talking about like five and talking for two minutes. I haven't heard of Moan or a breath or lies Yes lover Yes or anything. Like something's wrong I think and it's really hard for me as someone doing the talking to sense that no feedback right now. Are you still there? Can you get the sense of like 'cause it loses connection so I want to answer your question but like Yeah it's so important to both parties be like using their like Like just doing is really useful. Okay but then but like I love that. Like punch-ups allows you to be really good at ropes. Like I have no Shibani tying skills and a phone sex. I'm a Ninja in phone sex. Like I'm tying her up exactly the way she wants to be tied up and using exactly the kind of nuts that like turn her on without having to know how to do them fiscal in physical reality. Okay so we talked about how couples can do phone sex. What about if you're single and you don't really have any prospects during quarantine? Okay so we talked about how couples can do phone sex. What about if you're single and you don't really have any prospects during quarantine will One of the things that we've been finding his that. My workshops themselves have been pretty safe container for people to meet each other and develop phonesex. Practice Buddies for two. Single people are both interested in this thing by showing the workshop and then they they connect with each other and have a practice. Buddy in explore sensuality. In this really really Safeway. There's amazing things that happened with your sexuality when at a physical distance in the supplies of virtual play parties to like really wonderful things. Open up from that from that space of safety and I've had a few otherwise platonic friendships kind of Add phone sex. As a component to these friendships since quarantine began thanks benefits sharing sensual central space. Like in that way like really safe. I won't speak for anybody else. But I've felt that the physical distance allows us to go into fantasy fulfillment for each other in this really kind of generous friendly friend oriented way that doesn't necessarily have to have the implications of relationship. I think exploring central central space via phone with a new potential partner that you're interested in Israel juicy but I know that that doesn't work for everybody because I've gotten a lot of feedback on that like dating via phone sex community but I still think that like sharing sensual space. That's not even necessarily erotic can be a really really beauty way to date for single people with people that might be interested in like just seeing. Can we go into this space together? That's that's instead of just having our phone calls. Video Chats is being talk age just into a space for where we're both in our bodies together. Yeah Ling- what you were saying earlier about. Just like hugging cuddling. Like maybe there's something you can get there from this one hundred percent some really beautiful virtual cuddle sessions that. I've had with people where I'm just like with consent because it is vulnerable again. I would use the sensual voice. It wouldn't be like the voice to try to turn you on necessarily if that wasn't the the agreed upon thing but it really is important to go into central voice. It's really hard to say. I'm cuddling you right now.

00:40:02 - 00:45:11

That's right like it's really. It puts you right in your head like that voice it really a lot has to do with the voice and everybody has a central voice within them. There's a myth that people don't have this. Maybe you can even discover it on your own like I think like you way you asked the question earlier like should you practice on your own before partner my healing and again. I think everyone's probably different my feelings. It's kind of like practicing for big presentation. You don't want to get to in your head but you also want to be prepared so maybe if you have the luxury of having a partner you don't need to necessarily go as solo on it but if you don't maybe it's just an opportunity to get in touch with your own sexual side. I also fine just moaning by myself is really comforting. It just feels good to just make these pleasurable sounds because when I do end up making them with partner one feels a lot more natural and to feel really in tune with my body when I make these so. That's always a good way to practice but Michel for you when you do these workshops. I'm guessing IT'S STRANGERS. Who commented the workshop and then do they then go on in practice with each other utterly either with each other? I do in advance workshop. That offer them practice sessions within and I have a way of doing that. That's really safe. Which is that pair them up in one on ones and I offer them specific types of prompts but the actions that they're describing with each other are all relatively G. rated massage or I got rate so I'm not inviting random strangers that try to have sex with each other. That wouldn't be safe but like most people are willing to have the phone massage and keep it clean like that so we talked about funds acts which obviously has its benefits. But I there is something really fun about being on video so would love to hear these virtual sex parties a little more all right and these virtual sex parties are really taking off like hilly kittens the global sex club has been experimenting with weekly online play dates so this is kind of the future even when we get out of quarantine. I really think. Virtual Seco- yeah parties are still going to be thing. Then in Kate said to and we talked to them that they can't run sex parties for the rest of twenty twenty. Because it's like first of all there's too many people and also it's the most extreme version of touching people right so it's like for the journey gets lifted like we're going to have to figure out virtual means for this and again. I would go back to the idea of sharing erotic space rather than sex. When we hear sex we hear intercourse. I think a lot of people who are new to sex parties the big myth that most people who haven't gone to a sex party have is that go to sex partying there's going to be a bunch of dudes there who expect to have sex actual right like the big myth that like apple. They haven't gone to one and it was not like that at all when we went at all any any decent size party or any halfway ethical society. He would never ever impose any kind of expectations like that on anybody ever. What we're finding is the the legal liability and potential danger of full on nudity at in the virtual space is pretty big it. There's a lot of safeguards that were putting in place that we're starting to put in place in kind of a startup kind of organization. We're calling it for love right now. Is it like leaking video? Is that the legal part that you're like we could. We could geek out on this but like I mean there are people for whom like because of professional reputation of their families could kick them out like being recorded place. They can be fired because any kind of record record of them. In what would you call it? compromising situation also would be would be kind of a nonstarter so the level of trust that they have to have their is monumental starting a new organization that level of trust is hasn't been built yet between all the different people so that's that's one of the things we're also finding the plenty people who just don't care about that there's there's also plenty of people who are happy to get pretty pretty wild onscreen and are finding frankly a newfound of newfound sense of. I don't care like I'm GonNa. I'm exhibitionist under discover that part of myself. I'm saying you're like I don't care like it'd be while I put my grainy video on the Internet. Like wants that but also some people are just kind of willing to take the risk and we're creating a and this one emphasize for creating really safe containers started off like in the midst of the cove epidemic of just like. Oh my God look what is going on. Let's just try to like? Let's do some experiments we did experiments and now we're at the inflection point where we're not doing anymore parties with nudity without a huge number of controls at ace and a huge amount of vetting for every single person who comes a huge amount of like we've done tech due diligence. We've talked to lawyers. They're all kinds of stuff that we could be personally liable for not to mention like any kind of nudity. Technically you're supposed to collect. Id because that could be construed as a prey on that orgy dome does you have to creep whole paper records so nudity and is is the big factor so what we're finding. Is that the sessions and the rooms that were hosting because each party's tends to be like four or sometimes even five or six different simultaneous rooms with different themes types of experience all with the host all with a lot of facilitation.

00:45:11 - 00:50:15

That the ones where that don't kind of emphasize nudity. Where for instance were all kind of having like really central phone sex with each other or were all like going on a guided erotic journey or let has have contra teacher giving us a guided erotic experience or something more. Playful like How can everybody in this room? Turn the host on with their shoulder and Catholic. You know a bunch of people just like trying to be sexy with their shoulder and make it like light hearted or watching erotic Films together all we might be touching ourselves what we're doing an off camera that know and that can be a lot more safe or everybody's in sexy lingerie technically naked in. We're doing lots of strip teases or dances or reading rata to each other like there's so much that the safety of the screen creates space for that might not make sense to bay fifty dollars and get yourself all dolled up and go to a party for what is guided. Erotic Journey. Will you know how I was having phone sex? So like people in the neo touch world do this all the time. They'll get a group of people together and everyone men and women and people will be touching themselves and sometimes it's just women or men and a guide will literally bring them into their bodies kind of almost like a guided meditation right. You've done a guided meditation. You kind of see. Take you into a state. But this is simply a guided meditation. That's explicitly erotic and you can do it in a lot of different ways you can do it very abstractly. Talk about like energy and Taunton Channel Channel the energy you could do it really explicitly and have someone essentially like turning you on with like very explicit language. That's actually you could do a combination of the language with visual so you can have someone interacted on the screen. Who's like the host and being paid to turn everybody on but doing it in a more interactive way right? The difference is this. Isn't cannon this Chatter Bait? This is not like one person. Putting on a performance and everybody else safe behind anonymity of of a username. Everybody's in the space together and what we're really excited about creating a space where everybody's where everybody's cameras to way where we're all in it together. Even if the home eating like we're this is a space. For communal experience. Not just one too many voyeurism. What what are some of the rules? 'cause I know for the sex parties we've been to. I love that I said sex parties that was just one one eighty sivert. Yeah yes we did with consent. Of course it was great but the one sex party we went to there were a lot of rules and I think it's necessary for something like that before. Virtual sex parties are. Can you give us to some of the main road? People have to absolately and I just really WANNA pause. Just give a major shout out to Oregon House into the high near inward the Ben Kedah and the rest of the team have done around. Sex PARTY NORMALIZATION SEX CULTURE AND SEX positive culture normalization their massive influence on me personally at the tail. So the rules. That have come up with these pretty much from talking to people other people who have been throwing sexual spaces. One of the core ones is video on. I could say that that'd be awkward if someone today. They're rumor Julie. That was my question. I WanNa go but I just want to turn my radio off and just be a voyeur. Okay I guess that's out special and it's actually out of question you know that said you don't need to like have your video on and do anything you like. We do create a space in all of our events. Like we don't force anybody ever to do anything right right sense we do. We have like normative expectations. That people are going to a third lighting. Pretty or make their camera angle. Flattering or any of those things that we invite people to get into their bodies and be exhibition is or or give some way But we don't ever insist on it. You can sit there and watch but you are by by having your video on your participating. There's a level of shared vulnerability and that's critical a level also creepy. That'd be like who's that person on the other side if you're like out doing all this stuff and it sends the message to everybody else that you're not part of the thing you're not with them you know. When people have their video on its a level of vulnerability that really needs to be matched and met yes shared experience. It's got it's not the movie yeah I would assume and let me know from Croat on this like no phones or like anything else. That's lying to present. Yeah we we have a absolute prohibition against anybody within their phone out for any reason right like a lot of times people are like. Oh but I'm just right now like you can't and the we can get into. Negrete for instance We don't have this as a real rule. But we've seen for instance that it's really like there's things that are like really disconnecting and that contribute to a negation of the vibes of one of those bad lighting and another another one is the disembodied general. Like we we try to like invite people to be fully present even if that doesn't involve at some point there general like there's some people who literally just WanNa go into space and just show their cock nothing at least put a hat on it or some specially in Hetero spaces.

00:50:15 - 00:55:14

It tends to be a turnoff right right. She one of the things that we're really finding in virtual space is that so if you go to a physical sex party most especially in the bay area tend to to really frown. On watching just abjectly voyeurism without without consent right so if a couples getting on you can't literally stand over them and watch. Oh Shit I made that mistake for sure right. Some people don't care some people like I mean there's a level of exhibition as expected. Yeah like like. There's an understanding within a certain space radius like you're part of the scene and like someone watching like right up front. You weren't by me. Shah. I am such a new now. I'm looking back. I totally regret what I did. So there was a couple at the sex went to that was super hot. It just really hot bodies and they were getting on just the two of them for like two hours and when we were outside waiting for our limbs were as well and I went up to them. I like basically wanted fist-bump them and say I said you guys were killing it in there and they look mortified and they ran to their to their list and is now because I did not tell them or ask for permission. Watch but now it's killing it thing right because like technically everybody's in front of each other but the act of voyeurism is recognized it can be really violating. Yeah so so. What we've found is that in. A virtual sex base watching is a lot more tolerated. Because that's kind of what you're doing like if you've got twenty people in in their own selves in a space. You really like watching is what's happening that said and we we're we're now creating kind of prohibition against this if you watch someone virtuous expert bright and don't interact with them in any other way and don't get their consent and then go on facebook track them now. Dan You like. Hey that was really hot watching you. That's kind of violating. Yeah I know. That's not okay right. We're virgin who it's okay now you've and like yet. No one goes to sex parties without having made mistakes. Like I really want to normalize that for you you like thank you. For sharing the vulnerability of having made it and that's part of the culture is like what what people learn like. We're we're all coming out of Patriarchy through these parties. At least show at the physical one we went to there. Were like different rooms of stuff happening right like there was the room where people were getting whipped. There is like the room where the full on orgy was happening. You kinda describe like some of the rooms but is that level and you also mentioned that you are taking precautions now like when you first started off where they're like full-on orgies happening with their couples like going at it people like masturbating Solo. Like what are some of those rooms and what what we found. Was that like general. We would create like a kind of a lounge area where people like a lounge room. That was like chill not sexy. No nudity no no sex. No couples like with a camera is like having sex where people were talking having little Music we'd also create like a dance room where people could like. Just get into their bodies on. Usually something like like a little bit. More like new participatory lighthearted or humorous like Sharing Roddick stories. This like everybody play around and being like I'm GonNa tell you stories like from my my hot pass in getting turned on by each other and like meeting each other and that's important in the in the central spaces themselves. The rules of generally been no crosstalk at no conversation. That tends to take people out there right. You've got twenty people in like five people are really getting into their bodies and touching themselves and then one dude is like to starting a random conversation with someone like that. Yeah because we're all listening to the same discourse in a in a in a virtual chat or Zumra knowing on zoom calls that aren't sexual so I can imagine it'd be like yet so we insist on The only sounds that are welcome. Are Like your deep central erotic voice and complementing affirming each other and only doing that in a really deep central erotic way or moans groans central sales and then some very very sexy music. And that's the sound skate. And then visually like we without people doing all kinds of crazy stuff like we've had people really getting fully into their bodies And getting explicitly sexual and couples having sex in front of the camera and people masturbating and and then all sorts of really juicy. Other things you know like people really being sexy with their sex toys use props isn't mostly couples or mostly singles or kind of like a mix of those. Oh it's a it's a mix you know I'd say it's mostly singles and then and yeah the way it's interesting like if you're a couple hooking up or threesome hooking up on screen. We've noticed that there's like a different level of involvement if you're just kind of like if your energy is towards each other right so if you're looking at a screen big of the difference between like watching from a single camera angle like a grainy video of a couple having sex on the bed over there.

00:55:15 - 01:00:03

How interesting is that GONNA BE? Yeah but then imagine like a couple like both looking at the camera watching each other in a way. That's interactive with the camera with screen Recommend like kissing the woman's neck like really sensuously in the woman with a camera and like flirting with the camera while that's happening it's a whole range of ways. The couples can participate or not right or they can. Just be like yeah. We're sexy just like watch us. I guess that makes sense to because also like I know like when we talked to Ben and Kate. They said a lot of people in the polly community even though they had partners. They weren't necessarily quarantined with them right now like if they had roommates or they had multiple partners like so even people that are in per se like partnerships might be solo current day. So that makes a Lotta Sense. I mean say that like especially the early days like me. I Am Ethan. Cancel voorhees. Who's been organizing these things with me and we're expanding the team now but like because it was our networks in our friends like it was a lot of people in people who are really experienced with with That's now changing and shifting one of the things that's really juicy about these parties is like Esther Pearl talks about this in the state of affairs like that. How important is for even monogamous especially monogamous define? What monogamy means like what's your definition of monogamy Is going to a virtual sex party within our balance or not right like is it. Okay for you to Masturbate. Department is okay for you to touch yourself even without me at all define your monogamy like Are Fused to accept that like monogamy amongst people. Don't have the space for this. In fact I think there's plenty of monogamous people on both coupled and single for whom a virtual sensuality event would be really juicy. I wanted to go last weekend but I didn't see the way to get in a positive parties just for this week. We get all of our security and technical ducks in a row and legal stuff. We have a bunch of stuff that we have to do them spontaneity than so. How many people was it when you first started in like how many of you run the I guess how did it grow from them to pause things will we organically grew to about three or four hundred people in facebook group? The Max number we had a single event was like a hundred That's a lot of zoom pay. Just scroll through yet but not. Everybody was in the same page room at the same time. Like alga I've been facilitating. Mostly sensuality spaces. That we've run the largest one that was like explicitly pretty sexual forty people but then we've had parties are as small as like twenty five people and I've seen parties. I can't talk about in detail that weren't mind that we're like larger. I think it does get a little discombobulating in those spaces with more than more than twenty twenty five people the way that at least I've been facilitating. These is like to straighten degree. Were all kind of in the same experience. It's almost like we're all making love with each other. It's like an orgy. Yeah I mean it's interesting because like everybody's in their own space that you're one hundred percent physically safe right. You're touching yourself like you've got a screen name. You're just a phase with artie right. But like we're all sharing in the same erotic energy in a way that I find in physical sex parties. You're really not like you're limited by the people that you're physically touching. I love going to sex parties and like dancing amongst all the writhing bodies like I get a lot of hundred people like in there. There is a huge palpable energy. Coming off a Lotta people like sharing love so freely and I think that's what we're all tapping into these in. These spaces is the ability to share collective erotic energy. Really Safeway really goes way beyond sex. Yeah the whole word I gathered. Sex is really is really limiting. Ultimately I guess my last question for you is okay so we feel like maybe through twenty twenty physical semi. Hardee's still dot the thing. What about afterwards? Let's say okay. Of course we don't know we can't predict the time. But let's say in a perfect world have vaccination were allowed to be in big groups Damsel the need for this virtual space still. I absolutely do sharing erotic or central energy Collectively is a transformative experience in that. I'm a pretty evangelist for it and I think it's a huge jump to just go to a sex party physical one. I think that there's a there's a few functions here there's a function of them being a bridge events for people right were bridge experiences for people who are interested in but WanNa do so safely. I think they're amazing. Ways of meeting people and making connections in in Newark communities like so. There's just like kinda singles meeting factor. That's really that's really juicy. Especially again like don't think of it as like. Oh my God I have to go and get naked with someone and before I even know them like no like what if I just went to a space admit met someone who had a really sexy erotic story.

01:00:03 - 01:05:04

I liked the way he was sharing it and like I chatted him and we had like started getting really cool. Chattan we met. You know like that's more like what we're seeing from our events like this is a very safe and potentially if you want it to be safely anonymous way of having authentic virtual connections online different corn hot or chatter any of the current options which are all about like frankly getting off right at much less about meeting in an authentic way in a shared vulnerability way. Yeah those are passive to right so yeah I mean I think that actually pleased to my biggest takeaway of this whole thing is that like I obviously understand. There are some parts that still need to get ironed out in terms of virtual safety but the side. That is very safe. Feeling is that you are by yourself like you can explore. Whether that's like that you would never have gone to a sex party on your own. A very big hurdle of getting out the door like being comfortable arriving at something that so unknown and I think I kind of think about it. There's GonNa be a weird analogy but like kind of flight virtual therapy to actual therapy. It's like it helps you like ease into and you get comfortable so then you're ready to take that next step and actually do it in the physical and I love this part to about just like using your imagination and could you start exploring some areas of your own sexuality if you're not with a partner or if you are with the partner some areas of your sexuality that might be things that you've never tried because you were scared or maybe there's a kink that you've always wanted to try and you've never had the guts to do it so. I think there's a lot of really interesting exploratory. Pass here yeah Yeah I love that. I think this current lockdown situation Cor Sara. Udon me all these online academies are. They're seeing their businesses triple. It's because people want to learn learn learn and I really think with virtual sex and phone sex minus the sex part will just call them. Phone phone sensuality. Or virtual. Sensuality is just another form of communication and IT. We're trying to take on more information or to learn more about communication. How we operate this should be part of the career. I really hope of course Sarah or you would offer these courses too because it is continuing education. I also love me. Shut that you call your partners lover. It's I haven't thought about calling partner a lover in so lie. Say Lover Too. My friends as a joke. But there's something really sweet about that term reminds me of like if you're at war and then you're in you're calling up your lover. It's extremely romantic. And it makes it and make cysts seem like you are somehow taking care of this percents something very nurturing about that term and I hope we can use that term more often with our partners like such a beautiful term to use. I'M GOING TO START USA starting today of it. I'm GonNa call everyone lover but in in lake nona joking way. The other thing that has been interesting is through. Corona virus has obviously been a lot of doom and gloom. A lot has been taken away from US including being sexual partners all of that at the end of the day I was reading one of the articles about just like this whole virtual sex party industry booming and like saks is something that makes us happy. And while we're at home we're still doing our part by staying home like can we cue into all of these things that make us feel like as much as alive as we possibly can. During this time. I love the way you said that any other closing remarks that you have media I feel like you just summed it up. So perfectly plugged is please do keep plugging. So I'm running these virtual or the fund. Sex workshops are being run regularly. You can find them at my website evolved dot men so that's evolved dot men and then we are experimenting in for Love Like we have application processes to get in and of course in all that happening. We're not just randomly throwing parties for strangers. But we really encourage people to common check out like tentacles within this. Check out for love and just really really releasing. Thank you both of you for the opportunity to share this passion of mine and I'm really. I'm so deeply grateful for those space that you hold. Thank you for opening our eyes to a whole different way that we can use the quarantine like explore our sexuality sensuality in different ways. I'm not work my voice that's my takeaway and beyond the Corinth. Yeah I really think all of us including our listeners should do our best sensual mon on the counter three. Let's just try. Take from your pelvis. Take it from your genitals. That's where it's rooted from. Alright one two three. Oh Wow that was beautiful.

01:05:04 - 01:06:28

That's a beautiful way to wrap it up and you should always wrap it up practice. Safe sex even virtually departs virtually. Well thank you again Michel for sharing your knowledge with us and if you our listeners at home have tried phone sex or a virtual plate event of any sort. We want to hear about your experience and what that was like okay. We're going to wrap this up day. Dateable data damn. I just came the dateable. Podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag any post to the Hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those pose then head over to our website dateable PODCASTS DOT com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze an offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums also downloadable for free on spotify Apple. Podcast Google play overcast stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.