Season 10 Episode 1: Taking Sexy Back

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating season ten. I can't believe we made it to double digits. I can't believe we started season. One just on a whim with our friends and our on season ten with with people who are now our new friends but you know they weren't our friends to begin with no and I. It's so crazy that we've been at it for like four solid solid years. It's got I got to say. This is one of my most committed relationships. I've ever been duly. Even though we joke about us be like lesbian lovers. I really feel like this is a whole new level relationship before I mean people say like you really should date like anyone that becomes a business partner. Yes that is like ends up being marriage and I think for anybody who's curious about how we work I think it's we've both evolved so much in the last ten seasons sounds almost five years that I don't even recognize US anymore. From the you know from the beginning I got now I was like relisting to a couple of old one in it. It's it's actually quite amazing in their great in different ways like I think there was something really nice but our episodes really twenty minutes. They were very short and they were very conversational patients. which was fun? And we've heard a lot of people loving that but we've just got in much deeper over the years and I guess in the beginning I never thought about what I would take away from dateable. I wish I really thought we were GonNa talk about funny dating stories and maybe discuss dating in different cities. Oh Yeah I didn't realize how narrow minded I was in in the beginning but it's nice to have some self awareness around it totally and I think that actually is what has kept us going. People always are like. Are you going to run out of material. Never it's there's always something new with modern day dig. I see our inbox because every day. There's something new I actually. You feel badly that we can't reply to as Mariah people because it's just yet there's so many stories out there and that's why in season ten we wanted to bring you more we want the CNN season and we want this to be a very memorable season because you know hitting double digits. It's a big deal so in the last few months. We had a few first Chris Times for the first time. Live imprison shows in San Francisco and Cenex Sherry pop we did a few of first streaming streaming live shows. Yeah different than they facebook live. But we'll keep doing more of those and you've really really catch them on facebook. Live to if you miss them but we had some really good ones because we used a platform called vocal where you could actually have listeners. Mike Up Enjoying the conversations of superfund is have fans and listeners honors that we don't know at all just be on the video screen with us and we're going to bring all equipment to south by southwest again this year one of our favorite. I think it's my receiver. I did not know what I was getting into last year. Because you were like we gotta go. It's the best. I could go either way the shirt like whoa the entire time. Yeah we're back. Some Isaac are tied this year. We're bringing friends producer. We're bringing some other people so yeah and if of you are going to be in Austin at the same time his up let's meet up. Maybe new book live together record a podcast APP. So you never know anything could happen to south back. And if you haven't checked out the dictator take you as hat project. She's you just felt so strongly allie about this. We can give a little background of how this kind of evolved maybe for people. I guess we were at a comedy. You and comedy show and this comedian was talking about Dick Pics on and how boring they were and I was at a Bachelorette party earlier last year and I was talking about this. This Comedian and someone was like. Oh my gosh. There needs needs to be like a snapchat filter for pigs. We can put all kinds of different decorations on addict. We'll call it decorator so boom I came. I'm back and I told Julie Julie's like let's run with it. I was like let's make a fake Promo Video d'appel but if anybody's interests there's an alumina APP with us because my coworker is so convinced. We're going to be billionaires that APP if your business partner in that also hit us up me ask ask men will do we want to think ask.

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Exciting is one of the best sex and dating podcast to up your game in twenty twenty I personally. It makes me so happy when we're obviously just because I know it just makes it feel real Dacia. We're on the same list as Esther Parral and Dan savage edged. That makes me feel good. Yeah do they know that they're on. The same list is off. That's our dream so hopefully this will have one of almost podcast. Maybe we do. Maybe worse hiding some secrets so this year like I said we want to bring you more. So it's more episodes more live shows because we have more sponsors thanks sponsors for keeping his alive and we have dateable swag the Kim prejudice and show off to all your friends. Yeah so we'll keep you updated data as that come out but we have a few ideas on the pipeline. That are going to be really good. and Julie's speaking of more we are so excited. Now be part of the FROLIC media podcast network network. Yeah so we had frolic media come to us and say hey like we're podcast network and we've also been a book network that really focuses. This is on the romance and dating relationship space so we talked to them just thought it was a really great fit for us and we're really excited to see what the share bring flip them and it is also is a great community for us to be part of yeah so excited to bring some the continuity half on their network to you all that you might find interesting and it. Also you know Speaking Validation Immune love us as much we love you. Can you please just leave us a review or tele friend about dateable because this this is how we can keep on bringing you the content that you love. Yeah that is I think the only real asked we have if you keep listening yourself. A women's situation trust us. There's no gimmick here so in all of this because we're ready for I own. It's so good. We we have a repeat guests. Yeah her her name is Dr Alexandra. Solomon if you remember. She was on a previous episode. Cub Marriage Wanna one. She teaches one of the most popular classes at northwestern. University waitlisted every Salva Julie's cousin knows yeah she actually. She wasn't in it but her friends were yet but she also knows she knows that superpac actually went to northwestern. Yeah yes and so this episode. We have her back because she has come out with a new book and she talks about how to own your sexuality whether you have a partner or not not. That's the key phrase. Yeah I think it's just like when Shit will when her publicist came to us again. First of all we just love episode Marriage WanNa one I think for both of us us. People are always like. Oh you guys are dating experts and we definitely know a lot about day. They relationships because we've talked to so many people but I personally don't believe anyone is like an expert. No now we're we're learning every day and I personally think for me marriage WANNA one was probably one of the ones. I learned the most come because like her the dollars that she she was like every relationship has conflict. I think I personally took yet to heart because I think we're always looking for the perfect relationship and something that's it's easy and all that and it shouldn't be so hard but also like you're you have to work at it too and the fact that her class is one of the most popular classes for undergrads. Yeah at northwestern speak so much about what is happening in our culture today right like eighteen nineteen twenty year olds are thinking about marriage origin how to have successful relationships. We keep shitting on younger generations. I decided to step back and say maybe the young people have figured out yet. They're learning I think when I cur publicists came to us again for this episode this whole notion of Saxon like we all know about sex. Obviously but like how would you describe Eh. You didn't like it so I think it's so hard it's like obviously love sex but I can't put into words a lot of stuff right or people. Oh feel like they have to love sex because it's supposed to give Geezer but I also know people who struggle with loving Saturday had many bad. Yeah Yeah I think it's like we touch on this in the episode but what people how people learn about sex sex sad which means you don't have sex like I was thinking of mean girls. It's like you will have not actually is like that. It's like it's just was bad about sex and then porn like yeah. I think I heard a stat. Actually that boys that are eight to twelve are using porn exclusively the learn about sex you I know it is because then it also skews with real. Yeah on the actual bedroom there was some other stat and I'm kind of butchering the stats. That there was something about like how most men mastery to porn and like a lot of men were have it masturbated without porn since they were like twelve and these were like forty men now in.

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It's just completely distorts sexuality for you and your partner so now a good time to ask askew our listener. How did you first hear about sex or learn about sex? And the last time you masturbated what was the material that you masturbated to just this do questions to keep in mind as we play our first episode with Dr Alexandra Salomon I love repeat guests. Yes yes especially for a season opener. I don't repeat ex-boyfriends but I love Repeat Gazette Awesome. It's worth having a guest on for the second time we've got Dr Alexandra Solomon with us again. We talked about marriage WANNA one last time when she was on our show. And this time we're GONNA be talking about sex so she just released a new book called taking sexy back. A came out February second and and we are about to embark on this journey of how to talk about sex. I think in our culture we show sex. We fantasize about sex. But we don't actually talk about it and there's a lot of like shame in just from an early age things about sex that you've been taught and I think what I really loved about your book Alexandra. Sandra were obviously dive a lot. More in with you is just. How do we take what we've learned in really make it work for current day? Hi Alexandra how are you so good to be back with both of you. Thank you for joining us. She lives in Chicago originally from Detroit. She's in her mid forties and married aide. So I'm just going to quickly go over. Who she s in case you missed the first episode? We had with her. She's a professor in licensed. Clinical psychologist who has been specializing in sex love of intimate relationships. For over twenty years she just individual and couples therapy teaches a globally recognized undergraduate relationship course and northwestern university called Marriage WanNa on a one and that's exactly how we found her in the first place she's also an author of the book loving bravely and now taking sexy back which came out that second so again. We're here to talk about taking sexy back and how to own your sexuality and Creek the relationships you want so first off. What is besides Justin Timberlake? Thought of taking sexy back which I listened to that song like six times this morning and I was like what. What does that even mean the anthem? Dr Alexander isn't taking your sexy back. What does that mean to you so the idea here that we're what we're doing in this book is is that women are very highly sexualize? We are given a lot of messages as we're growing up about who we should be and how it should be and hand media highly sexualize women but being sexualize very different than being sexual. So book is about Really Supportive Journey from what I call an outside in experience with your sexuality would just sort of like who everyone has told you you should be or you need to the moving towards an inside out like cultivation of A. What the hell? What is my sexuality who is this like sexual south I you know I have? It's been part of. It's part of all of us. It's part of being human as to have this aspect of south But it's not one that we're really encouraged encouraged to define for ourselves or cultivate. Essence that is uniquely ours to understand and then to figure out how to share to own on your own sexuality is such an interesting concept to mean because I've always grown up with the idea that the media owns bisexual in the media dictate paid in what I shall find pleasurable would orgasm is and I never thought about going inwards. Yeah warring what my sexuality is so. was there anything living in particular for you. That inspired you to write this book right. I think it's true like that's a really interesting place for for a woman to start kind of like her exploration of like who am the sexual beating is a really interesting place who owned my sexuality thing sometimes it feels like it belongs to the church more to the family right sort of like you know your family's honour. oftentimes times is sort of seen as a a woman second down sexuality sort of belongs to the family system to be given away like there's all kinds of ways in which it belongs to. Everybody thought you. It's no coincidence. That women oftentimes feel really disconnected from this part of themselves. Because we really haven't had like a whole lot of science to understand and women's sexuality so a lot of the inspiration here was basically the fact that I year after year was having conversations with my students both my college students in my graduate students ends about sex and having woman after woman say to me like I don't really ever think about my pleasure I don't really ever consider like what do I want or need or people the saying coming up to me after lecture and being like I've not heard sex talk about in this way.

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The only way I've ever heard sex talk about is like don't do it sinful. It's dangerous Ad It's dirty and this is a new paradigm trying to figure out. How can we talk about sex? That is neither like a taboo at one extreme. Or as you're saying like sort of titillating like sex as something that is selling products or like you know leading to downloads of more and more and more pornography like. It's sort of like extremes of taboo relation think porn gives men unrealistic expectations of like how to please and and women unrealistic expectations of what they should be doing to police. I think that's for sure risk. Yes I saw when I talk about pornography like with my students for example I will encourage people to have experiences of masturbating without pornography. I think there can be like a time and a space for using erotic materials. They can sort of be permission. Giving I think there's really beautiful people who are creating early feminist pornography. Where were you feel like you're accessing something that was created with Karen Integrity where performers were paid while we are story lines are really supportive of the kinds of things that research has shown tone women actually like you know so? It's not that we can like paint all foreign with a one rod rush but yes. I think that is for sure the rest. I've heard uh-huh and I'm sure you guys here are more than I do about just stories where people but imagine there for the first time and they're like trying to kind of recreate a porn scene that foreigners. Pretend it's it's fantasy and I think that I love how we have worn performance. Now who are saying you know. We're kind of becoming like public health. You know specialists in a way and saying like you guys describe this isn't what real life love making. Looks like to do in your own bedroom with. I'm doing onscreen. I am making fantasy storyline entertainment. Entertainment right yeah. What do you guys think about that? Do you think it is shaping how people are actually showing up in the bedroom. I think people show up in the bedroom anymore. I think people come to the bedroom and just expect A. We're going to have sex and that it's GonNa be great and we're going to enjoy it but I don't think people know how to deliver our pleasure and Hal even define what pleasure is for themselves. I have a friend who had her first sexual experience at in her late twenties recently and she said it was exactly how I did not expect sex to go. She said was so opposite of what she had seen porn which she had heard from France what she heard her neighbors doing late at night that she thought she was an anomaly. Yeah I didn't scream at the top of my lungs I didn't orgasm and also I didn't go down on him because I didn't know what I was supposed to do when I was down there so she had a lot of these experiences at a later or even that she had no idea how she was even supposed to show up for her partner. I think that's the problem though is like when you feel like you should be doing. I think it's goes beyond porn. Like I think it just media in general and just what you've learned through talking to friends and Lake hearing their stories and like you feel like you're different. That's when things get problematic and I think for me personally. I thought what was really interesting about your book because you actually put a lot of names to feelings and I think think a lot of times we can't really describe how we view our own sexual selves sling zags. But I can't really explain like what I'm doing how I'm feeling being like it's just a little bit of `Nigma away there's no vocabulary and faster and harder. Yeah about it exactly and like even some stuff in in your book. I thought was super interesting. Like you were talking about like how some people are just like wired to go at any time where other people need to be like more on the mood in sometimes that because a lot of like disconnects in relationships too when you and your partner are different but you don't know how to express it explain that in all right just we. I had this conversation I was a CS earlier this year and same sex tech was huge and why so huge because back in the day sex products were created by men then vibrators essentially created by men. That just gives you this vibrating. Feeling that consistent that is that you off somehow because because men do not understand how the clip works in fact women do not understand how the Clinton I just learn how it works and how. It's not just a knob that you just keep impressing. It's not one of those. It's a a wishbone shaped a around the KNOB that that is the clip. That's your entire clique. I did not. It was mind mind-blowing challenges a even seeing images like seeing that. I still don't really know how it works. But em- porn is just constant then pressure on that.

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Nah and that's supposed to get you off. Honestly that doesn't get me off. It just makes me on a p the part with this. We've talked about it because I recommend to you the magic wand way do you know what the magic wand and I guess I do tap Tommy experienced like node vibrator of all times shoe congas. Okay so what am I. Friends recommended it to be and I was like I used it and I loved it in definitely got off and then I recommended to you a and she's like it did nothing to me. I'm just like a back scratcher. Oh no I actually I use it for a win. It's intended to do for my kids that I bring this up is because everyone's body is just different in like certain things react different ways to them in. I think sometimes like in porn or just again and media doesn't have to be just porn if you don't do something or you don't like something something. There's something wrong something wrong with you. Yeah and for all the people. I'm not to sing men 'cause some women don't know this either Google the magic wand this is Google has been godmother vibe radius. For this time it was like what every woman has and came. Seem to me as almost guarantee. You're going to get off if you get the magic wand and it's aptly named a magic wand it did nothing for me and it made me feel like there was something along with me also I was like. Am I supposed to stick Emmy Company. I John Orman so I think that's a good segue because 'cause I think beyond just that there's a lot of stories that we've been told like for example. Men Always WanNa have sex like anytime any day. They're ready to go. And I know like a lot of times. Sometimes we have our producer shaking his head right now. No but then also I know I've been with ex-boyfriends and such they're like I'm not in the mood in the new GATT insulted because you have the stereotype in your mind like how do we kind of detail ourselves from some of these stories absolutely. Well what you I mean. What we're talking about is first step is feeling like you have permission to expand the story like this idea like the magic wand got me off but not you off or the magic wand got me off on Tuesday today but not Thursday just trading that treating any of that as like a data point to be curious about rather than an entire ear narrative that now dictates the entirety of my sexuality you know and so with partner? It's like you're not in the mood but you're a man and you're supposed to be in the mood and if you're a man and you're not in the mood it must be either. You are broken or I am broke. Who's broken and that's where it goes versus hearing your partners not in the mood and being curious about it because of what's going on in what does that stir up in me like that's the self awareness part is what happens to me when you aren't in the mood and it becomes then it makes so much sense it becomes a story about my worth because I'm a woman which means Ivan tool that my value is in how I I look in a man's eyes how desirous I make a man and of I'm not quote Unquote Making with man desirous? Who Am I? What's my work with my values? So it's like that. Little little micro interaction of a male partner. Not In the mood like is an entire reflection of like the patriarchy in that moment. And that's what I just kept playing. I'm back again and again and the book is how much these really narrow stories about. Men are women are really limit us and that's and that's it for our LGBTQ Dt Q.. Plus friends and people in our world as well it's like these stories that just narrow down our sexual selves which are in in fact I- sexual selves are like really dynamic unfolding changelings. Whatever you think you have figured out to refigure it out you know in this new relationship up or now that you're in your thirties your forties era seventies? Whatever so it's like it's that's that's that it's everything's bigger than the stupid little thin narrow stories stories that our culture tells us and on the flip side of that as men feel shame and they're they're inapt when they are not in the mood mood and they can't have sex the drop time because it's like oh I'm a man I'm supposed to WANNA have sex every second every day? That makes me a less of a man and I don't yeah I mean I think in general. There was a definitely an overarching theme of the book of just shame in sacks like why do you think there's so MacShane in our culture when it comes to sex. Let's take a pause for mental health and our partner better health. Mental health is so important. Because it's what affects our daily lives especially when it comes dating now with Valentine's Day right around the corner it's a holiday that conjures up all sorts of emotions for people me included now with better help. It is much easier to find online counseling and find an outlet to discuss your journey and check in with yourself better helps counselors specialize in depression relationships trauma trauma and many other areas.

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Everything stays confidential between you and your counselor with thousands of licensed therapist. You're sure to find one who was the best fit for you for dateable listeners. Only get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code dateable simply go to better help dot com slash dateable. Fill out a questionnaire to help assess is your needs and get match with a counselor again. That's better health dot com slash dateable and use the Code Dat AB L. E. for ten percent off your first mud mud now back to the show like why do you think there's so much. Shame in our culture when it comes to sex and it really is our culture because when we look At I mean lots of parts of the world have to but there are like I love looking at what's happening like in the Netherlands for example where sex education. You know it's part of every here and start talking to parents and teachers talking to kids about Adis and touch and it's just woven into the conversation and my favorite story is. There's a museum like sort of Science Museum where there's a whole area like the signs of sex and it's designed for you know older kids like young preteens and teens where you go in. And there's puppets and you can make the puppets French kiss. There's this huge jar looks like seaman here into it. There's different it's sort of like thank you know we don't have that in the US. We would never see a large jar of semen in a museum. But when you when we don't I mean and when you look at the data like the the teen pregnancy rate in the Netherlands is a little itty bitty fraction of what it is here in the US. The S. T. arrate in Netherlands is a fraction of what it is here so it just me shows that when we take very puritanical shame loaded attitude attitude about sex it just creates conditions for abuse. It creates the conditions for like. You know just all the nasty stuff we're trying to avoid happens and when we act like we can't talk about this when we get Pearl Clutch. E as my as my publicist says and that's basically what we talked about on on the last episode but we had you on Where sex education has always been about sex prevention meaningless? It so taboo. To have unprotected sex your the guest he is. You're going to get pregnant but sex education should be about also how to have sex and why we have sex why it should be pleasurable and remember this right to hold about my virgin friend. WHO said I need to just figure out my own vagina right now because nobody ever taught me how to figure it out so before right actually give out my virginity trying to figure out my own shit and it's it's just fantastic to hear this because there are cultures who are are very progressive in the way they see sex and we are seeing the results of that and the benefits so hopefully we can follow Su yen? I think that is why there's so much shame because we're taught right like don't have sex and no one wants ask questions to their parents. They don't WANNA ask questions to their teachers so therefore like they just feel like there's nowhere to go except for the Internet Julie. Do you remember how you found out about sex well. I don't actually remember asking my parents like how I was brought here. They said the stork brought me abroad. Even kidding so they clearly avoided the time clearly so when did you find out about lean. It's tough I don't really remember what mark did but I think I mean sex at. I do remember that pretty vividly and not I just remembered as really bad videos. We had to watch. Yeah in Gaza. The men and the women were separated which is also problematic and I wonder how schools are doing it this day and age. Because there's just a lot less about gender and gender identity entity is much more fluid but I also like why did we have to sit in separate rooms because I think it actually would have been useful to know how the male anatomy work a bit more it would. It would just Greece so much. Compassion like opportunities for a compassion. About you know these poor guys who get Boehner's in the math class don't forget to understand the nature of period like what they are. They're not here are not foreign but when we create what we do like we almost create like contempt across the gender align right about his bodies. We don't understand do things you can't even relate to and it would just create so much more inclusivity for all of everybody who doesn't fit neatly into that the fact that five percent of JT teens have positive representations and health education see LGBT sexuality with positive representations nations in their sex ED is criminally. That is problematic. Yeah I mean I don't remember the first time like out like I do remember though people Like we were just saying like boys getting Boehner's and women like getting cheered going.

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I remember like poor girl like got her period on her chair and was like the most more man thing and no one could really explain it of one just laughed and in both cases in terms of sacks. I know for me. I don't I think it was just through like friendly. Hundley camp talking to other people but wait for me. I was definitely like a more of a leap wounded. Really have a ton of sexual experiences in high school because it just wasn't something that I talked about ever with. My family was like very much a topic. That was off limits. What about you I feel like I was probably in fourth or fifth grade and we were on the playground and this was before I found about found out about a regular sex I was taught? What a sixty nine and was Andrew Mansur for me on the playground and said this is what sexes and bats? My first exposure to sack acts. I was like a very precarious position. Okay interesting and then we went into sex ED. I was actually questioning the teacher. Are you sure this is that should have been an early sign that you were going to do this. podcast should be facing the other way at this point they let me show you book. It goes everything about sex in fourth grade. They also English is my second language. How you ask? I didn't even know vocabulary to explain what is being but I just kept raising my hand asking is this is right so I really good segue too because I think even twenty twenty we actually did a live show a couple like obe job in December and I remember one of the last questions we got from a woman was. Is it okay to sleep with a man on the first date or like the first time. Were you so surprised. The price was really surprised. And I did want to like bring it up to you to because I think it's at were talking about like. Why is there still all that stigma in twenty twenty Right right I mean the way that the way we talk about in the book a little bit is that it's It's like this new. It's a a new kind of sexual revolution right. So there is like permission now to have sacked but what I really. The question like is really not one that I want her. To ask anybody else it really would would be. And what were the conditions be. That would help me know that I actually really. I'm excited to put a bed with the person regardless of it's the it's the first day or the fifth date of the twentieth mutate like. That's the question right. She's asking it as an outside in question league's new. Please give me permission bursts more interesting conversation. That's about how. How do I know when I'm really enthusiastic to share to create an experience with somebody else in this way? That's that's the really important interesting question. And and that's revolutionary by revolutionary to be like. What do I want how do I know? And how do I ask because really what I want women to be able to inquire about is how do I know this can be a partner. WHO's really ready to meet me in the space of deep the CO creation and play? And you know taking our time. I'm and following sensation because that's what when the Gal who's trying to figure out her vagina which is trying to figure out is how to follow a sensation right to notice the sensation inside of my body which WanNa pay attention to how to grow them how to invite my partner to help me grow them. And that's that's a very different way of doing it. Then like checking behaviors off less than we did this. We sixty nine that matters less than being able to be like. I really want to have situation where we're each kind of just is playing with what feels good and how to grow that you know yes I think that's like exactly I mean that is kind of what we said in there some clever that's valid validated. But it was around like what is going to work for you like what is going to make you feel good about yourself and your sexuality and I think there is so much of this emphasis of like date one date three and like all that really is arbitrary and I love this idea of like what is comfortable for me. Not what do I think this person is going to think of me because of this well I want to add one thing. which is you know this whole thing about like which date it's on kind of also means we're focusing on that aren't talking about the fact that sometimes first sexual experience variance within with a new partner sock not because they're a quote unquote bad lover? But because we have to like kind of feel our way into each other right we have to. We have to establish rush like a rhythm and a flow and a chemistry dynamic. So I think sometimes that's a that's a challenge in the dating world is that they rule out potential partner because the first sachs ax is lousy on a spectrum right so we shouldn't really lousy sacks. Sometimes it made us be that everyone's feeling a little awkward and you know it takes a while to establish like this base the trust that helps us take risks yet.

00:35:03 - 00:40:00

I think it's it goes into this idea of sex is not just a one time act. It's it's the opening for communication. It's almost like when you first say hello to someone on the phone and then you continue that conversation you let that conversation evolve and I. I think what we talked about in. This discussion was really alarming. To me about this question was we were not owning our own narratives. I think by her asking this question Why is it okay to sleep with someone on first state? Her narrative was already if I sleep with someone on the state. They won't take seriously. So how do we get that back and say I'm going to change the narrative because I'm going to change the way people have told me about sleeping with someone too fast because that's not what I'm trying to own here. branly is like like a power dynamics. I think that's really the root of what you're saying too is like the way it's being viewed is. I'm giving away something to sharing a mutual ritual beneficial experience. That's going to bring me closer to a partner and make me connect with someone right and the reality is that a man wouldn't ask that question in the same way at around. What is she gonNA think of me if I sleep with her? On the first date. And that means that it means that a man is uncut off from his his his storyline. The storyline he's been told is like you just have to figure out how far you can get right. And that's the idea that you're the pursuer and she's the gatekeeper. So you just kind of go go until you're told not to. It's a ridiculous message to give man cuts them off from being able to ask a question of themselves. Like what do I really want and need a sexual experience and I had a good friend. Friend of mine was talking about like when he was in the sort of hookup world. He was really struggling with like a reptile function. Like he did not. It was really hard for him to get and maintain an erection in in these kind of random hookups and he felt a lot of shame about that and he said I had this moment where I realized that my penis and my heart are connected. Aw what the Hell is wrong with our culture like to be twenty seven year old man. WHO's you know before you realize that your peanuts in your heart are connected like we aren't giving voice voice the message that they deserve to really go slowly and take their time and figure out what they want and need and what makes them feel good because we're bombarded them with they get bombarded with this message that their value as a man is about how far they can get with a woman? It's just it's just disgusting awful you know I- over a in years eve. I sat with a group man. We just ended up hanging out and talking about sex and came up as the only girl in group and the question was what do you think when a girl sleep with you on the first date and all the guys across the board said I would like it. I would assume she did this with all the other men. I would think that she was easy and I think that she didn't take us seriously. So we went in a little bit deeper and we carried on the conversation. A little bit longer are saying 'cause I asked him. What is you sleeping with a girl? I'm for state saying about you. And at the end the result of this conversation was many of them actually felt that if a girl sleeps with me on the first date it would mean I would have to perform at a level that would compete with all the other men men. She's been well so became more about them than her interest learn. I don't want to be the loser in the situation so I rather remove myself solve interesting. That facet they all the fact that they put that into voice in a space with each other and with you is huge huge. Because you're right. It's so easy to deflect it onto her and what's wrong with her and you in by them to peel back a layer and look at what is it like for you to enter that space with somebody right off the bat and what you found is there's a shit ton of vulnerability there. Yeah and and for men and and we need to move the world where men can talk about that with each other than that like that just is so detoxifying. The gives me chills. What a beautiful? What a beautiful opportunity? They had to be safe out loud that they had not said before or put together. That's huge yeah. And so I ended up sending them invoice for two hundred fifty dollars. I was like your lockup but I wasn't expecting the camera this good stuff this is what. How can we change the conversation? What are some tools we can use now that we can start today? Well one thing I think about a lot is just like parents parents with kids right because at some point we have to just break the cycle in because parents do to their kids. What was done to them around talking about sex and the very like binary a do? This don't do those kinds of terms. That's a huge thing I think is just like you know breaking the big chain around like the generation to generation. But what can we do.

00:40:00 - 00:45:01

I think a really important thing for women to do is women haven't explored masturbation that don't feel comfortable optimal their bodies like like that whole work on my entire relationship to pleasure do I have. I give myself permission to have pleasure I I. What kind of touch do I like? How do I explore like relate to sort of like physical delight and touch and that oftentimes has to be she has oftentimes especially if she's straight she has to do some of that work just in a room by herself because as soon as she is in a space of the male partner all of the stuff about you know whatever performance even even if he is a partner who has deeply invested in her feeling good? There was a weird way that that can end up feeling like pressure right because now she needs to feel good in order to make him feel good the made her feel. God ends up being double loop so I think a lot of this work has to be just a woman in a room by herself with a candle from soft music resonate with herself. So we've talked a lot about like the shame end of all of this but what what about just like now that you understand your sexual self in your partner and you have totally different sexual Needs and desires like for example. Let's say like one per one person is really indicate in the others more vanilla like is that relationship doomed. Can they work together right. I mean I think he'll probably depend on like how far far on the extremes they each are. I think there is a way that when we when we commit to especially when we committing to something. That's sexually monogamous. If this is not a sexually monogamous situation and then maybe they agree that there are limits to my curiosity and willingness around king and so those are the parts of your south that you take elsewhere but for a couple it really wants to be sexually monogamous. There's this like both and of the vanilla partner. Findings would have their growing edges and how they can expand in ways that feel good to them and feel like they're in the service of their relationship and then they're on the on the king partner side there probably is a you know a bit of grief. I think whenever we whenever we choose whatever we choose in our life inevitably involves a letting go or a grieving so the partner who you know who enjoys kink think but really wants to be with this person. WHO's a bit more vanilla? I think there probably is some grieving and letting go of the life. They aren't too because they didn't choose somebody WHO's as deeply indicate as as they are and I think that's there's an inevitable inevitability around grief and letting go it's different than resentment you know this surrender versus the resentment about it. Like I can't have this part will focus on what we can't have than. We're not going to be cultivating what we actually can have. And the more. We're willing to cultivate like what we can have at our partners available for than that may lead to more expansion and it will help us sort of feel grateful rather than deprived. What about like wooden one partner is like always in the mood in the other feels like they're like initiating Returned yes that is one of the most common sexual. The problems is that desire difference makes total sense because the chances that two people are going to be in the mood at the same amount at the same time the same frequency as like impossible. It's impossible aw so I think there's an inevitability sexually monogamous relationship long-term one it's inevitable that couples are gonna hit that bump in the road around desire difference. What happens happens is that it becomes a huge problem because we get locked into you blame and shame so the higher desire partner either feels ashamed of their the desire or they feel blaming the other person never wanted and why do I always have to be the one? So there's like that sort of blame and shame possible on the higher desire partner side of the street and then a lower desire partner side of the street. They also feel shame. What's wrong with me? Why don't I want it more? Where they can feel blamed like this is ridiculous? Your so demanding. It's like one more thing on my to do you list and so when we get into that like narrative of like it's either my fault or your fault than the problem itself. Actually rose like the distance between them ends up growing versus looking at it like what you know standing shoulder to shoulder like what are we as a couple going to do like looking together. The problem is we'd like different frequencies like what are we as a couple. How are we going to relate to this challenge of desire different? That's an entirely different position analogy that it opens up new possibilities for how you navigate that we can't even get to that place of a collaborative approach like What are we gonna how? How are we going to navigate this because what I want and what you are not the same thing? We can't even get there if we're stock as as often as the case with sacs if we're stuck in shame or were stuck in judgment judgment I have a very specific question about this logistically. Win is the best time to talk about sex with your partner in a way. That's trying to improve improve your sex life.

00:45:01 - 00:50:00

Let's take a break now for a wonderful partner generation Tux. All you guys out there. Have you ever found yourself needing a Tux but didn't want to spend the time and effort. Finding the right fit. Listen we've talked enough rooms to know there's so much to do right before a wedding and your Tux is the last thing you want to worry about now with generation Tux. You No no longer have to think too much about your Tux. For the big day you simply create your look alike including your grooms party and everything arrived at your doorstep fourteen days before the big day you the even earn a free suit or Tuxedo rental with five paid members or better yet keeping your suit or talks when seven members checkout generation. tux offers a free home. Try on program for groups and after the big event you throw everything back in the box and use the prepaid legal to drop off. UPS Free Shipping Free Swatches and free. Home try out and now you can save time and money with generation talks checkout generation tux dot com slash dateable and use the Promo Code dateable for ten percent off your entire grooms party again. That's generation dot com slash dateable and check out what the Code D. A.. T. E. A. B. L. E.. Now back to this episode win is is the best time to talk about sex with your partner in a way. That's trying to improve your sex life. Because I found post Cueto. It does not work a Israel words. You're tired maybe your mind is in a haze and then once that that desire passes you wanting to have this conversation is not as much and then right before. You're not going to have this conversation right when you're about to take close up. So when is the right time I. That's a great question. Yeah I know I spent some time in the book talking about talking about sex. You know because that because that very thing I think couples to figure out what works for them. Sometimes we come up with all these excuses about one. It's not the right time because we're anxious you know like yeah so if that's what's happening the thing to really address the anxiety and so what can we do to have this. This conversation in a bit of a less intense waiver like versus like we're like staring at each other and so it may be it's done via email My friend astaire parral has this suggestion uses with couples where couples is open a separate email account that is just for conversations. Dixie you know pragmatics and so then it's like it's basically like love letters back and forth and that way each person can really like saver with the person with that their partner is saying and may have some time to like feel a bit less defensive sometimes in conversation we can get really defensive really quickly and here are partners as more critical than they actually are so letter writing or email exchanging can slow things down so I like that intervention a lot. We had a couple that that came on our show did sex journaling. So it's kind of a similar concept it's like let me express how I'm feeling. Let's share it in like an open space together. Lavina and Caleb Yes I know I love. I love their. I'm looking at it right now. It's right here my office. I love their sex journal and it is is on great similarly a neutral space that we both can go to I. This is one of the big big reasons. I'm not a formally trained in sex therapist but I am a couple therapists. Who realizes how much I need to be making space in my therapy office to support conversations about sex and there's been this weird split within the world of relationship therapy where there are sex therapist over there and they have their own conferences and do their own thing on the couple therapists are over here? We have our own conferences and we are on thing and there's kind of the split so it is. It is very likely that a couple will come into a couple's therapist office in the couple's therapist isn't we asked them directly about sacks and so then it's like even in a couple of therapies office. It feels like this topic is taboo and so I was really motivated led to just kind of like invite a bit more curiosity in collaboration. From the couple's therapist part of the world to just be proactive about making space their therapy offices to talk about sex. Even if they aren't formally trained a sex therapist there are still lots of conversations can be had if there are you know significant sexual problems and certainly they need to be referred out but there's a lot the couple's therapist can actually do to shell and model that. This is something that can be talked about so another thing for couples to do is talk about it in therapy and I think part of the problem couples therapy is people are like. Oh my God. Something's wrong with us. If we're in couples therapy but in fact it just shows that your relationship mean and so much to you that you are investing time each week to have important conversations in the supported way so I like that idea too so fascinating readings. I think it's so interesting that they're so decoupled in a comes down to again how sex is viewed as shameful. 'em Like how you it's not always something you WanNa. I WANNA talk about.

00:50:00 - 00:55:23

Look I even know I had a friend recently. Not that I am a sex therapist or Turkish. You're not a friend like assery about or just like come to to be around advice with relationship. She was in in. It took me probably like halfway through our conversation to even bring up like how. How is your sex life? And I don't know why that one like in the media questions. I think a lot of times. Sex is a barometer of the whole relationship but it took me. I just couldn't couldn't bring myself to ask it for whatever reason because we have sachs as being behind closed doors. Whatever you do behind closed doors is none of my business but is it productive to have the culture where we openly talk about sex even when we meet up for Brunch is like hey generally house Friday night? How's your sex life like it's been trying to get to yet? That's a great question like what is the culture. What's good for look like right? I know it's funny because in some ways we're talking about sex muchly part of what it is to live in. The era of me too is that we are really looking at all of the incredibly. The problem matic dangerous power driven horrible things that happen around sex and so I wonder about in some about balancing it out with a willingness to talk about about actually people's just what's really delightful. People sex lives like I love that idea opening up right. Maybe not just like you know a ton space for like nitty gritty details about about how you perform oral sex on your partner but just to kind of like name. Mata's part of life is actually going well or part of life that is you know fun. Like there's there's something about like how much this the METOO era is. Vitally vitally important right. It is like so time to unpack and like pull back the curtain on all of us that has happened. And I think there's like there's more than just healing we have to heal trauma uh-huh but part of how we heal trauma is by saying that. Actually we deserve pleasure and we deserve to live as sex is an integrated part of who we are part of why I like the idea of like a bit more brunch conversation because then it's like a reminder like Oh yeah sex is more than just incredibly fraught problematic Rom Raum. Yes that's interesting 'cause metoo it's definitely a chance to go there now. I feel like when we first came out it was about like sex abusers or senses the victim and it was kind of actually playing into the shame model even more in a way and I think it will be interesting to see if now post be too we. We can get to a place where it's just openly discussed as pleasurable. Just saying right now. What about this mentality of constant instant comparisons math gas on the show? Who would say I haven't had the number of partners? Yes as that I should be having at sage or couples who say This our neighbors. They say they have sex five days a week and we only have sex one day a month. Are we doing something wrong. How do we get around this whole keeping up the Joneses? It is so funny when you even look at the history of sex research in our field when researchers ask about sex what they oftentimes will say like how often you have sex. And so it's like there's ways that like the field of sex research has reinforced this idea. That quantity equals qu'ils quality or the quantity is the main thing and I think that's when ever like it's just numbers are really easy place for us to put our obsessive excessiveness numbers scale or numbers of you know episode downloads or book sold or whatever like we can just numbers. I do end up hooking us in a bit INS. I think the most important thing is noticing. How right there's a number I have had ex partners? They have of sex x number of times a week. Like noticing how we will take that number and attach an entire story that has to be with worth and value to that number UH versus just dropping the story and having an just noticing it as a piece of data and figuring out. What's more interesting question to ask so so with the you know the neighbor down the street or having sex five times a week a more interesting question is what are you seeking in? Sac- What do you find they are. What does the New Year relationship? And then those same questions for oneself. Why what what am I looking for when I want sex with my partner? What am I craving? What am I seeking to express those so much more interesting questions than how many times now? It's x five times a week and it does nothing. V relationship. Shy performing duty the weakness that one time a week in Italy. Restorative you know and connects you and and you get bask in that glow for the rest of the week calling me over quantity Quanta exactly so I guess too before we go into takeaways like what are a couple of words of wisdom that you would give to anyone who's better China understand their sexual self off in like kind of create this sex life in always wanted Words of wisdom would be I guess the most important the thing is to just with an any couple.

00:55:23 - 01:00:01

There are three sexualities. There's my sexuality your sexuality and there's our sexuality Being able to remember that because because of the risk of saying like somehow I'm broken or something's wrong with me like the whole is on that Direction or to go in the direction of like. Something's wrong with my partner. My partner isn't a partner as too much in so always come back. League noticed when we start to do that and then come back to that idea of like. There's my sexuality there's your sexuality and then there's our sexuality just remembering always to like thicken up the story because when it gets when the story becomes too thin that's when the silence Edson because if I get convinced something's wrong with me and they're sure shit no way okay. I'm going to bring up a problem having or a concern. I have because I'm just either going to be really scared that you're also GonNa start blaming me or I can't can't even imagine bringing it up because I'm ashamed of myself and you know that's what shame does is it silences us. It makes us think that we're the only one that feels the same. I love that I love like I mean we've talked about this relationships before it's not me versus you. It's off right so it's similar but it's just putting Sachs which is something that's even harder sometimes talk about a young boy. So what are some of your takeaways go into takeaway line. Yeah we'll start with you. I was just thinking about how if you think about it. SEX WCHS as a form of self care. Anna's colleague doing your monthly massage appointment. Why wouldn't you do your daily massage appointment end with your private parts right because access to do that? So it's Kinda like booking a a massage for one or massage for two or however many but it we see it as a way of self care then were able to go into it with more empathy. Nevada I'm just trying to find pleasure to restore myself to find balance and I want to also create that for whoever's involved in this experience as well so let's find pleasure together and I love this. Idea of quantity is never a way to measure. Are you getting pleasure. Sure yeah so I think a concentration of how do I feel after this and my feeling good about myself and my m my caring for myself and my caring for my heart ner that's a better measure of whether you're you're getting that pleasure that you've been seeking so I really love. I'm I'm just GONNA book this daily Massage appointment want. That's for massage outer part. Thus far my book daily massage employment and sometimes someone could join sometimes they may not want to piggyback on one. One thing about that. I think it's so when when I think about especially women in the dating world I saw you guys know Mama Gena is just I love. I think it was a newsletter thing. She wrote about how she'd Masturbate Asher Bates before she goes on a first date because she wants to feel really grounded really nourished really full within herself when she shows up on a first date rather than feeling like she needs. She needs this person to scratch this issue inside of her or she is yearning for something the somebody else has to give to her for her. It like anchors her back within herself that then right she has her own source of pleasure and then she may invite somebody else into that space with her but she comes into it then from a place of wholeness instead of lack and I love that what you're literally goes along with what you're saying. I love that too because I feel like we've been taught sexuality is to people and it if you don't have a partner sometimes really I can't continue to explore for my sexuality and you feel deprived rate in. That's when you like end up having like the friends with benefits are like someone hooking up with just someone that you're not really into an attracted to in it's more of this place of desperation which is what we're talking about and I love this like takeaway of kind of it's evolving your sexuality quality is evolving. And it's not something that you learned in sex ED. It's not something that you had. As your first experiencing college that might not have gone so alike it continues to go and you continue to see what works for you. What works for your partner learn and evolve just like a continuous cycle? It's not a one time time. This is what I know this.

01:00:01 - 01:05:04

What ends and stay curious in that? Yeah holiday curiosity do they feel this way. Why do I like this and keep on exploring exploring because I realized that the human body there is so much more we haven't uncover right and I think sometimes too that goes into like sex? Acts like that arched. It's kind of the standard. Like if someone does bring something up to you. That might be different than you've ever experienced. Then it's that staying open mend. Maybe if I mean I mean obviously don't try something that's so against your morals and not something that you WanNa do but if it's something that you're just like I don't know if I'd like maybe there is a benefit of trying. Get seeing how you feel Zine what it does to your sexy and if it's good keep going and if it's not then you know part of what happens in a couple system as it feels so much like the only way I can experience. My sexuality is through sex with you and so then does make designed sex is a duty. Because because you're only going to meet that need if I show up in now now it adds a bit of Wrath in space. If I don't feel solely responsible for creating the conditions for you to experience your sexuality Audie so couples where they were there is just some space for that as well can take this. Heavy responsibility of like my partner wants sax on the only person who has sex with I have to show up it has to be me than does creates the conditions for duty and that duty definitely is pretty antithetical to desire. That's so interesting so I feel like that's worth things going like. singular pleasure riper than also like Pollyanna marine other configurations. Because I'm thinking of like I don't know why this one sticks out but sex in the city when like Charlotte and trae weren't having sacks g caught him masturbating and it was like the ultimate betrayal right and I think there's something about masturbating masturbating in historically. That's made you feel like you're not up to speed and if they're masturbating than you're doing something wrong but I think what I'm getting from this conversation sation. It's not a comparison. It's like apples to oranges like just because you're masturbating doesn't mean that you don't have sex life that you love is just complementary it. Does it need to be an end or so next time someone asks you. How's your sex life you can say? Oh I'm really good in bed with myself because I think looking historically stoically you would think like I'm only going to say if I have a partner right if I don't a partner my sex life is bad which is not true. Could be having sex. Life could be in a band sex life. I don't know if you heard about this Alexandra. But in San Francisco a couple months ago the police broke up an epoch. Sex Party the presidio with over one hundred people. They found fifty gallons of semen and donkeys llamas and emus running around and arrested like eighty ready. My Gosh Wow really exploring their sexuality for them. Some of his. We'll legal another. Take away from this. Conversation is like don't take everything so personally like I love this whole thing that we were talking about earlier like you're you have Saxon. Your partner doesn't in historically be like other something wrong with me not attracted to me but it really has nothing to do with you. It's about them in their sexuality in then like I loved what you said about. How do you just make it my sexuality your sexuality and our sexual rally? Yes and own at that way Alexandra. Any other last words of wisdom. I mean we've we've talked a lot about about shame and the story we attach and so then like the antidote is self compassion right like just being really self compassionate unsafe for women but I think it's for men as well because it's just I think maybe worries are different but I think we're all really hard on our bodies as you know is very critical of my breasts are to this. My Penis is to this. My hip search. They very critical of how our bodies look and southbound around and you know all of this narrative that operates in the background that is. I'm not enough or I'm wrong. That compromises pleasure so the woman who wrote the forward to taking sexy back is researcher in Canada named Dr Lori Bronco and her recent book is called sex. Mindfulness and she basically took the finding that has stood up in a variety of studies. That about half of women struggle with low sexual desire. So it's like kind of You know in terms of like normal being defined as incredibly common. It's become sort of normal for women to struggle with low sexual desire especially women who are in long term partnered relationships and she was like all right. This is not okay. What's going on here? And what she found. Was that when you teach women. Mindfulness skills like basically dropping the self critical story about my thighs and just returning to the moment.

01:05:04 - 01:09:49

It changes their sex lives like massively and and women unexperienced more desire more arouse more lubrication more orgasm an more connection with their partners. But I think sometimes we don't even know how not mindful we are because we're just so used to being self critical than it just feels like we don't even know. That tape is playing inside of our heads. When we're making love it just feels like this is how I always am? Grew up as a woman so of course I'm beating the crap out of my body like it's just what I do all the time but I want women to really know that that a space nice to meet ourselves with jeep deep deep compassion that Like criticism blocks our ability to even feel good right to feel pleasure to feel L. deserving in so noticing how the stories are coming up is a first step towards like no. I'm not going there and I'm GonNa Return just dropped the story and return my attention to this moment almond love that I love that because it's so dead on for so many of us I think most women and men everyone can relate to having those critical moments in their own mind. They're really getting away from having the sex life that they deserve in addition to showing up for your partner show up for or yourself too. Yeah I love that I mean. I think this conversation's been so great. So thanks again for having. I think what's interesting to me too is. It's applicable all for people that are single applicable for people that have been in relationships for years. Everyone kind of deals with these ongoing evolution of sexuality. It's not just oh you're in a relationship. Your sex life is great. Oh you're single your sex life is bad like it's just it's not black and white. I mean one of the things that was so amazing about writing the book was I had this amazing team of graduate students and undergraduate students and we were really diverse. Like very different ages very different relationship state has different cultural backgrounds and cultural trainings. Things all away from you know very liberal. People to people who had been raised in strict Catholic family was really fascinating team and so the conversations we would have was amazing. How often Louis Comeback? I'm back to these same themes that transcended age relationship. Staden culture was really enlightening. Hope anybody who picks it up fines some source source of comfort relief support and courage. You know in that. And that's exactly why everyone should pick up uh-huh. I'm suing on Amazon. You can get it. Where else can you get the book? Yeah I mean wherever books are sold your India Bookstore Barnes and Noble Amazon on definitely. It is Paperback and kindle in it will pretty soon be available as an audio book as well. Nice Will Lincoln in our show. No just of course I anyone interested and Dr Alexandra Solomon we need to come to one of your classes. We've been saying this world wile e will show up and one of these certain taking notes rigorously our love to have you. They're gonNA happen. We they are soulmates. Love nerds all of us are love burt. Thank you so much for coming back on our show. We didn't scare you the first first time. Let's get to know you for bringing this very basic Justin timberlake song to a whole new level. That's much deeper her and meaningful for all of us and it's better for the next generation that next time you hear this song. They're like yes taking that that's right watch out world from being on our show and We are GONNA show up one of these days. We are literally physically showing the class. All right we're going to wrap this up a Jada Ball but dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Find more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. PODCAST TAG US in any post with a Hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those then head over to our website. dateable PODCAST DOT COM there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect sect analyzed and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums rose downloadable. For free on spotify apple podcast Google play overcast stitcher stitcher radio and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.