#brunchtalk: Is Bad Sex a Dealbreaker?

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The dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that The Huffington Post calls one of the top ten podcasts about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about everything from sex parties to sex droughts, date fails to diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologist. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explore this crazy dateable world.

What is up everyone? Welcome to another episode of brunch talk with us the dateable podcast hosts and every week we get into a meaty question that we've been getting through our emails and we want to dissect it all for you. Over brunch talk. Yes. And then you can take it to your own brunches and dissect it further with your friends or spread the gospel because we're looking to have advice and dissection that empowers you at the end of the day. We're not going to be analyzing every last text message. That's not how we roll. We're doing the bigger topics. But the stuff that's pressing, you know? Keeps you up at night. The context of this question is that this is very early stages of dating. They've had sex a few times, they have fun on their dates, but the sex is just not good. What do you do? You know, I feel like sex is a port it. It definitely is into a relationship. It's not everything by all means, but it is a factor that should be good, right? That being said, I feel like people shouldn't get alarmed right away if it's not good. I've definitely been there before where it gets much better over time and especially it depends how many dates they've had too. But it's totally natural to be nervous the first couple times when you're having sex. So I guess the question here may be to reframe it is how bad are we talking? Yeah. Are we done? What is that? I want this to end rice minute or is it just not fireworks? Because I think those are very different and I've been there before where it's like this I want this to end immediately and I think sometimes that's hard to come back from, although if you could pinpoint what it is, maybe that could help pending it something that could actually get changed. But if it's the latter that's just, it's not fireworks. I don't think that's a deal breaker. It's funny because sex is like the one thing that we don't talk about with partners. And especially early on, it can come off very critical or insulting even if you share that it's not good. But I think just learning more about what turns them on, what their sex style is, it's all about how you phrase it, not that there's a problem with your sex life, but opening up a conversation of what would make it even better. I think that can be a path that can help. Also, maybe even just trying it more and getting more comfortable. Do you remember that episode of Sex and the City when Carrie was really into that? Was it burger? Burger. I guess there was so into each other emotionally. And then they had sex and it was crickets 'cause it was just so boring about it. Right. I can understand how that could happen like we've seen it during the pandemic. You have this virtual relationship with someone, you're very emotionally connected. And then the physical is just not there once you meet. I also agree, I don't think it's a deal breaker. I do think from my experience, bad sex comes from not talking about sex. And if two people aren't talking about it, then it's just going to stay the way it is. I think there's something really beautiful about asking your partner. What do you like? What turns you on? What has been your sexual experience in the past? Like talk openly about it so that when you're in the middle of doing it, you don't feel like you are blocked from saying something. Because sex is also a form of communication. Yeah, I mean, even just using the carrion burger example, remember she went and tried to buy all these sexy outfits and shoes. She got wasted, hoping that would help. Yeah. And none of it worked, but as soon as they both addressed the elephant in the room, that's when the chemistry started to happen. I think also, what about the outside chemistry? Because in their case too, they had really good kissing and everything else was good. They were very attracted to each other still. So I believe if that stuff is good, you can make it work. Sex wise. It's one of those things that I don't think there's a blanket answer and it's a scale. And if you really are like cringing being around this person or just not attracted, it is going to be hard to come back from that. But if you're relatively attractive, just not perfect, then I think you definitely can. Yeah, if you're attracted enough, the sex can get good. I mean, there's a potential there. I think just by ignoring the topic, that's the danger zone.

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I had a relationship where we didn't have sex for a year. And I ended up resenting this person because I just kept thinking like, well, they obviously don't find me attractive or they're low on their hormones or something. There was something wrong with us, but we just never openly talked about it. And that's why I just got worse and worse. So worst thing you can do right now is to ignore the topic. Yeah, and I also feel like the earlier you can do it, the better and again, it's all how you say it. And because if months and months go by, it gets harder and harder to break that up. Yeah, yeah. Sex is such an interesting topic. It really is. What you might think is bad could also be good for someone else just based on their sexual history. So that's why it's so important to talk about it because maybe they're like, this is the bomb. This is the best sex of my life. It's so weird how as society we're told that we shouldn't talk about it. I know. I know, ever. And there is this feeling like you're gonna make someone feel that they're unattractive or they're not good at sex and yeah, I don't think it needs to be that way if it's done in a collaborative way of how can we make this better for the two of us. It kind of reminds me of the episode we did a while back with the sex turtle. Yep. And you know this could even this advice goes even if you're having amazing sets. They were having great sex, but they wanted to improve their sex lives. And it was coming from a place of how can we make this better together? Yeah. Because it is a form of communication. If you're going to work on all the other avenues of a relationship, you can't forget about the physical part of it too. And that's why I think when remember that, oh my God, remember that time I met someone who hadn't had sex with her husband in like 6 years. Yeah. They've been married for 8 years, hadn't had sex in 6 years, and she's like, it's fine. Every other part of our relationship is fine. It's fine. That's not how you want to describe your relationship. It's fine. No. No, I think I've heard before that sex is a barometer for the relationship. And while I don't think sex is everything, you know, I do kind of agree with that statement because I do think it shows, if you're not having sex, what are the reasons that are a little deeper? There's always a deeper reason. It's not just sex. It's either feel comfortable with each other or there's something going on for one of you individually some insecurity or something that's happening, but you know, I mean, there are people that are asexual that have healthy relationships. So again, I never want to say that it's everything. But it really depends on your views on sex, how important it is. And then talking about that to your partner because it's like everything else. It's a compatibility area. Yeah, I don't think bad sex in the beginning is a bad thing. It just means that you have things to work on. I found the kind of strange when people say they love one night stands because I think one I stands have been the worst sex of my life. Definitely. 'cause you don't know each other, you don't know each other's bodies, you don't know what turns each other on. And if it happens to be good sex, that was just good luck. That's it. Doesn't mean you did anything right. So it just takes time and I think that's the exciting part of initial early stages of dating is that you can explore what makes each other tick. And your sex life can just get better from there. Yeah, I mean, I know there's been people that I've dated that it wasn't fireworks from day one. But I did have an overall attraction to them and it did get better over time. In some cases became amazing over time. But then there was one case of thinking about that was just horrible. And I wanted to get out of there immediately. I wanted it to end. I gave it one more chance. I went on one more date after because I feel like on paper he was good. It was good on paper type of person, but there was a chemistry and connection that was just lacking. So it went deeper than just sex. I think is the result of it, right? Yeah. And I remember I gave it one more chance. We went on a date for dinner, and he was about to go away to Europe for 6 weeks, and he was like, okay, do you want to go back to my house? And I just did not want to. And I was in school at the time. I was in night school for design. And I just remember being like, I have homework to do. And he was like, really? But I'm like, that is a sign that you'd prefer to do your whole work over having sex. That's a really bad side. So I do think there's some times I would also listen to your own body too. So try to get out of your head a little with this and listen to your body. If your body is like clenching and cramping up because you do not want this person to touch you, that's very different than still feeling open to explore with them. Yeah, your body does not lie at all. It knows your head will. Yes, your head will say good on paper, checks, all the boxes seems like a nice person, but your body is like, no, I don't want to do this.

00:10:03 - 00:15:01

And you have to you have to really listen to every part of your body to hear that. I also don't love that society pressures us to perform when it comes to sex. It's almost like you gotta be really good in bed for someone to talk about you during brunch. But it's really bad at bed, either way. You want to be really good or really bad for brunch talk. And I think that's a really unfortunate because we're not porn stars, and it's not one size fits all. The way someone performs with someone else is Deborah and then they do it with you. So get rid of that pressure to be bomb in bed because that's not always the case. That's a really good point too, is your own expectations. And a lot of times, if it's not fireworks on day one, it's because we expect it will. And especially if the chemistry is really hot and we go back to the burger and carry example, she was expecting it to be incredible because they closed down restaurants waking out all night and all the works, right? So I think sometimes those times can fall short because they're so much expectation that goes with it. Oh, that's so true. It's bringing me back to that three week fling I had because this was in San Francisco. We were before we even had sex. We just had crazy physical chemistry and the week leading up to us having sex we were like, oh my God, you're going to be this is going to be so great. It's going to be fireworks and he's like, I bet you're kinky, and I'm like, I bet you're kinky. And we had the most vanilla sex ever. When we were done, he was like, that's not what I expected. And I was like, no, not me neither. So then we took some Molly, and then it was better, obviously. And then we're sober again. And it's so fast. Like, this is just, this is like a fairytale we're trying to act out. It was just so boring. Wait, so was that the devise of the relationship? Is there other reasons? So bad sex was the device in your situation. Obviously it was a nuanced situation. It was that close, the fact that he was like not what I wanted. So there's always a deeper reason. There's always a deeper reason. But that sex and the bad match were, you know, the combination, but I was like, at least I'll get really good sex out of this. I know. It was not. I love that he acknowledged it too. He's like, that's not what I expected. But I think that's actually why one night stands could be better sometimes because you have no qualms. I may never see this person again. I don't know, I don't have any built up preconceptions about them. That's telling me that this is going to be incredible. None of that exists, which is actually kind of beautiful in a way if you can bring that to people that you're actually day naked. Develop feelings for. Let's have low expectations. It's not even no, it's low. This is going to be really bad sex. No. It's hard too. You're in your 30s or even 20 or older, whatever it is you might have had your share partners. Yeah. Not saying that there's anything wrong with that at all. Just buy pure age of numbers and the fact that a lot of us are dating multiple people and not being in serious relationships as much as in the past, sometimes you can get stuck on what's worked for you with other people, but remembering that everyone is different. There's things that are going to be incredible about this person that was just different than the last person and just because it's not the same doesn't mean that it's bad. Yeah, and we really should be giving each other more feedback about our sex lives because we only say when the sex is good, but we don't ever tell someone when the sex is bad and how it can be improved. So we need to pay it forward because that's why you're getting the bad sex right now. It was probably because nobody told them that this was bad sex that you probably thought it was incredible this whole time. There was another sex of the city episode where the guy thought that he gave every girl at orgasm. Miranda, I was like, nope. He was so baffled, but I don't know what's the lie of that because I feel like it needs to be constructive. It can't just be. Oh, no, it can be like you suck at sex, but I'll give you a very good example. For the longest time, I would give my partners good reviews. That was incredible. But when it was just blah, I wouldn't say anything. It's like, it's fine. But the times when it's fine is because there was no lead up. No build up to the sex. It was just like straight to penetration. And that doesn't get me off at all. And that will never be good sex. Not until this current relationship was I able to give that feedback of, I really need lead up time. Let's start talking about sexy things like two or three hours before we even have sex. That is what gives me incredible sex. So I don't think that's like, it's bad sex. It's more like this is what turns me on.

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Even more. Well, I love that because it was all about you, not about them. Right, right. Yeah, and that's the key. It can't be useful. Your penis gonna leave at that point. There's no way that that could be a way that brings you to closer. A sign at the end. D, maybe D plus. I don't know. I feel like there should be an app for that. Just log in and see what your score was. And if you never want to see them again, just be like, check a box at the edge, and get an orgasm. No, I love this in a non sex rating app. Yeah, that's a good way to tell people, right? That they're bad and bad without telling them. But the app would have to verify that you are an actual partner, a former partner versus someone who's just ruined someone's life. I do think there is an attic here. I don't want to put it back on the person submitting this, but I do think some of it is you too. While there's definitely things you can say to your partner and maybe there's a situation where they just aren't great and bad. We don't know. But some of it's the own enthusiasm that you bring and also how comfortable you're feeling in your own body. Because I know personally times when I wasn't feeling good about myself, I didn't have good sex or I didn't want sex as much. And it had absolutely nothing to do with the other person. So while there's definitely things that you can communicate of your own desires and what you want from them in a way, of course, that's building them up, not putting them down, but I'd also take a look at how I'm showing up too. Oh, so true. So true. But most of the time is their fault, right? No dead fishes. Have you ever oh, I've had too many. I don't even count those to sex partners. Like there was no penetration. It's just literal like flapping against the hole, which is this. That's not penetration. I think my definition of a dead fish is different than yours. I was thinking that person that just like lazy. As you started talking, honestly, I don't think we're talking. Sorry, I'm thinking of a flaccid fish. What if a dead fish should have flaccid fish got together? We're a sex house. Then that's the best nap of your fucking life. Another thing that I just thought of is what is sex even? We think of it traditionally as penetration, but that isn't what sex is. That's a very hetero view of sex. True. So just because one thing isn't working, does it mean something else won't work? That's very true. I think foreplay is part of sex. I think yeah, exactly. Sexting is part of sex. Yeah, that can all be part of the experience. The other thing too is positions, like what have you tried? Because it's not just one thing, right? So many positions out there. So many positions that I don't even know how you get into. Like the fucking helicopter. Although some of them I feel like I'm seeing like in magazines or articles, I'm like, how the fuck do you do this? This looks so difficult. You have to be so flexible and not just you, but your partner has to be equally as flexible and if you are both not contortionists, how do you get into these positions? But yes, try it anyway. Yes, don't feel bad if you're sticking with the basics, but even the basics, right? Yeah. If you're doing missionary and it's not doing it for you, there is many other options that you can go to. I feel like there's only one position for me though. It's only I tried many of us. There's only one that works. What is that? It's not cowgirl. Yeah, it's cowgirl. Girl on top. I feel like women that's very common because it's just you have more control. So I guess for the bed out there that are eliciting hetero bed, maybe try that add that to your repertoire. If it's not already, that could solve your problem right there. So I heard this interview interesting theory why women like it on top is because if you know how to masturbate and get yourself off, that's usually the position where you have the most control, right? So you just basically as a dildo or pillow or whatever you use. That's so romantic. Romantic. But I like this because I'm going to bring it back to Taylor Tomlinson again. You have to watch a special Julie. It's so funny. I saw it live for a special. Wait, which one? The most recent one? Yeah. I sat in San Francisco. We went to the actual show, yeah. I thought she was so hilarious with the sex thing. If your first orgasm is with someone else, that's like if a realtor showing your own house, you know? Like, you feel ripped off. Oh, here you have a second bedroom. I didn't know I had a second bedroom, you know? So she's like, when you get off, get off with yourself first, then you'll know how to get off with other people.

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I like that point a lot. I like it. In our Facebook group, there was a question about sex, and one of the responses Janice our moderator posted about, she's like, I don't love doing challenges. But what if you did a 30 day challenge, like sex challenge? And I actually went and looked it up this morning 'cause I was curious. And I feel like it's actually something I might want to try even though. I have no qualms about our sex life. I think it's just good. It basically pushed you to try different things or maybe there's a day that was a different form of sex or there was so many different aspects of it that just got you thinking in different ways about what sex and connection meant. So I feel like even if you're not in this situation where you're trying to make something better, it's still could always be a good way to make something good even better. Yeah, I think outside the bed. I guess in that well yeah, one of them was like have sex not in your mouth and you're bad because sometimes you just fall into patterns and it's the same thing every time. Yeah, I mean we always have the best sex when we're on vacation because it's different. Different environment and you feel a little bit different. It just feels novel but at home, yeah. It's very easy to be complacent when it comes to sex. Another piece like maybe it's the environment too. Your data just has a really shitty, uncomfortable bed. Like maybe it actually is up there sex ability. There could be little tweaks that you make that make it a lot better. I believe that, I believe that my little studio in New York, I could only fit a futon in there. Okay, you know how futons work? There's a big dip in the middle, okay? And it was a full size Bhutan. It was not very big. But it was the ultimate test of how creative someone could be. Yeah. Everyone's like UA's the worst at bed. Oh wait, that's just our food. I don't know how many knees I bruised on that dip. But I ended up selling that futon, TMI. I ended up selling my crouton to this guy. That's like young, good-looking, 20 some year old guy. He's like, thanks so much. And I was like, take a care of this futon. Oh my God, there's so many things that are wrong with that story. I don't even know where to start. I hope he's having really good sex though. I mean, I feel like you're like, oh, it's really coincidental that they always want me to go to their place. It's so weird that they always want to do a standing up. You know, there is also a side of it. The more we talk the more I keep thinking about things, but I feel like when I'm not super comfortable with someone at the beginning stages, I prefer to be on my own turf. Totally. So maybe some of it is just switching it up to your place versus theirs and seeing if it makes a difference for both of you because if you're at your house, they could be nervous and not performing as well because of that. It's very true. Yeah, think of it as an opportunity to experiment. It's not a deal breaker. It's an opportunity. Just don't fuck it up. There's some things that I think there's universally things that you just should not do in bed or after you have sex with someone. One example is don't send them a text saying, I miss your Chinese pussy. Just like, I don't know, just one of those things. I just don't think that works ever. I mean, I hate that story, but I love it at the same time, just because it's horrible. The way you tell it, but it's horrible. I don't know why anyone would ever think that was a good text to send ever. That does not make me wet at all. In fact, dry up right away, and I will go the fuck out of you. Bye. Was that someone that you slept with all the futon? Yes. Yes, it was. It was. He deserved that. He deserved that crack in the middle. Oh. Okay, less is large. You can save bad sex, but also look at it on the scale and don't force things that can't work either. Yeah. Don't think of as bad sex. Think of it as sex with potential. Yes, yep. You're good. If you're really not feeling like that person, set them free and let them have good sex on a futon. Pay it forward, pay for it, everyone. Well, we paid it forward with this episode of brunch talk, we'll be back next week with another meaty, juicy, commonly asked question, but until then, enjoy your brunch. Enjoy. The dateable podcast is part of the frolic podcast network find more podcasts you'll love at frolic media slash podcasts.

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