BONUS: Will We Ever Meet IRL Again? w/ the California Groundbreakers

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This episode is brought to you by one of my favorite shows bachelor in paradise. Listen up monday on. Abc love is a beach and someone will get burned. A bachelor in paradise is finally back with your favorite bachelors and bachelorettes. Looking for love in all the right and wrong places. It's going to be. Spf up starting monday on abc. These guys and gals have waited a long time to get back to the beach. And they're just bursting thirsting and pounding against the waves and just make it a bit hotter. A few celebrities are packing their bags. To guest host david spade john lance bass and more will dip their toes in the paradise waters. This season can queen victoria find. Her king will connor the cat proof that he can kiss while anyone even talked to carl. It's paradise like you've never seen who knows someone or some ones might get married. Think you've seen this before a beach. Please bachelor in paradise. Premieres monday at eight seven central on abc. Let's get into this episode.

The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves.  I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world.

hey everyone welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern day. Dang where we are your investigative reporters because we are here to investigate people do the things that they do and see the shit that they say when it comes to modern dating i liked that one lovely investigative reporter cova reporter. Here julie craft. I liked that title to stick with that one for now. That's good makes us sound very scientific right. it does at. I feel even more scientific. Because i've been really busy recording the last couple of days. We've been really pulling it up. Top into high gear again and we are ready for season thirteen. Which will be next week. Can't even believe we're on season thirty. It just never stops. Thirteen has i. Had a friend asked me the other day. She was like you've been doing the podcast for awhile. What are you on now like four or five. I'm like no thirteen and we're not gonna give too much away but we have a prayer episode for the season and i will say it. The guest is scientific and it does have to do a sex because we are sects. Podcast obviously yes. Apparently that's our rebrand a sex. This'll be our last bonus episode for season twelve before we get into season thirteen and the treat for you. All this week is julie was on a podcast to speak. Basically i felt like it was kinda panel. Yeah the california. Ground breakers podcast. They reached out the host vanessa in she also had speaking of scientific. I feel like this elevates by default that i was on there with a professor in the attraction lab at uc davis who also hint hint. We are going to have as a guest on our podcast because it was so fun talking with him and you'll hear on the episode. He's a lot of really interesting insights. That is just a different lens of all this like. He studies this very scientifically one thing. That was very much note worthy about this entire experience. Is that julie. You can fully grasp your title as bay area expert now. 'cause you first of all i think you have been in the bay area for ten years now. Has it been ten. Yeah over ten years. I officially of a local. I don't know if locals would agree with that. But at that statement. Think it's like ten years or more you become a local. You're not born and raised. But you're definitely in tune with the bay area scene than most people especially earning this badge of ten plus years in the area and not only. Are you that you are also an expert in bay area dating to See you got two titles underneath your investigative reporter belt but of course as most guest appearances that you and i are on. They always have to do with copa date. I feel like this has definitely been are year to be guest because it's like a whole new realm of dating is unin chartered territory. Basically and. i think it's interesting this episode. A lot of it is what's going to happen. We in this hot vacs summer and we were. We still are. But there's a little bit of a twist that came with delta pressure and we dive into it we won't go too deep but just like about what's going to happen after it like are people going to be in roaring twenties mode or we in fota fear of david again and if we are in roaring twenties mode.

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How long does that last for before we go into another down. Which is my prediction at least for la. I think we're going to go into another lock down to people close to me had breakthrough cova positive tests which means they were backs to end. Tested positive for kovic and both of them are very shift. So this this is troubling to me yes. I think it's going to hinder the dating scene. I think this hot girl summer hot summer fota is real because kovic is real still. I feel like we always love to take the polls out to our people and see. Get a pulse of what everyone's feeling so we ran to respective pulse. Today we had one that was on instagram and one that was in the facebook group so it was really just trying to get a feel of who is experiencing photon. Who is like. I am ready to date again. I have zero food and you need to give the results of the instagram paul. I yeah yet. let's do that. We have seventy five percent. Can you guess yes or no fear of oda yes or no. Can you guess julie well. It's it's bad because i already saw. But she all seventy five percent of you said yes. I definitely have a fear of florida. Twenty percent of you said no or maybe you didn't know photo was but it is overwhelmingly the majority who definitely still have a fear of dating again. You know it's interesting and our facebook group. paul. I feel like the results were a little more. I mean it was definitely skewing more to photoshop. But more close to fifty fifty it was not as seventy five twenty five and i thought what was interesting there as we got the reasons why people were feeling that way and i think the bulk of the reasons actually was that people felt frustrated by online dating apps and they felt like this was the only method. The stay. and it's actually on this episode. I'm not gonna go into too much. Because paul talks about it too. Is that in the past. It's always been a balance of meeting. Irl too but now we're just like relying on one so maybe the interactions feel a little more harsh because there's not other interactions to balance it out. I thought that was interesting. That a lot of people said that there were definitely some trickling results for kovic. Just fear of cove again. Not as many though as others. So that's kind of an interesting aspect. I thought that might be a piece of it. A few other trickling responses of just like social skills but not as many lack of social skills. Not working that muscle. Not as many as i would have thought either in then a couple comments around like body image which i thought was interesting. I mean i've definitely felt this sometime during you got your pandemic bod right. Becoming fifteen is the thing so sometimes when that's happening you don't feel confident in dating so it's interesting to hear some of the reasons that people were citing. I'm sure there's even more by the whole like dating apps as continued. Frustration seems to be something that really is holding people back so it sounds like it's the same as pre cova. The only young different on that list cova did everything else stays the same sword just back to where we were before but i kind of feel the frustration of this because before kobe people can be frustrated with dating apps but still know that there are other opportunities. Yeah and other avenues to meet people. Even if they don't take advantage of those avenues they know those are available now. Those options are taking away. They're like fuck. I can only blame dating apps of i got. I totally feel that. Bet you have to like this this mythic with a logical feeling that you're going to meet someone in a bar in cow on my hands like how many times that's a resulted in a real relationship spoiler alert. I don't need to hance. Yeah i just feel like though. There's that feeling of thinking that it's a possibility though that gives you hope yes and you. Yeah you think about your meat story of like walking into a coffee shop or walking down the street and bumping into someone and then you go home and you go on the dating apps and you're like this just mimic the fantasy that i have created in my head is the same. Y'all before and during and after cove it to burst your bubble it's the same either way but mindset is so huge in all of this and we totally feel you if you have fota you are obviously not alone but also we totally get it. We've all been there. And now it's even more amplified because even thinking about going on that first date. Where do you go. How do you date what questions you ask. Now it's like just ask him someone's vacs is not even enough. It's like have you had a recent negative cova chest. Probably plays into it but my prediction is maybe all those dating events.

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Low singles events may make make comeback if they make people take a same day. Pr test show as you're negative test result and then that night you can join this event so it's more of a safe space. That is so much fucking work though cycles. i don't know i it. It just makes me a little sad. When i see all the downer messages about day they gaps. Maybe because i bet my car partner on a day the gap. I've also met a partner before that on a dating app. And i feel like it's always you know the quick to blame and like i've definitely been there myself where i felt very frustrated by it. I'm not going to say too much. But you and i been kind of like working on something behind the scenes to that hopefully will help people out a lot with this because i feel like it's such like i was just thinking about the state. I'm like i'm so happy right this minute by partner in i've hinged thing because i would never have met him ever you know so yeah. I'm not saying that. Like brag anyway. But i'm saying it because i feel like all our members that are on dating apps there all on them see. No good people are on there. It's just learning the skill set to be able to find those good people. Because i personally really believe strongly they exist. There's something really problematic going on. I think it has do with stigma. Is that often. We hear people talk about dating apps and specifically call one or two out as the bad ones. They've had experience with but when people have met people on dating apps they don't say. Oh i met this person on hinge wooded lovely app. They say oh we met online. So i think the data's are getting shunned in a way because we are not celebrating the matches that we have had on these dating apps. And we're not calling out the apps specifically so maybe this is a challenge for our listeners. Is that if you have had good luck in the pass on apps even if those relationships in workout at least give the app so shout out so we're putting that into the universe instead of all this like i hate handwrite. Hey bumble. I hate coffee meets bagel. What about like. I met a partner who i was with for three months on from hinge and it was. It was a lovely time right. I don't know. I feel like i would gladly be the spokesperson for hinge. Is into hinge. That dateable podcast will sponsor yes but if it gets human nature in a way because you don't it feels weird. Even when i was saying and i'm like i don't wanna like brag. It's up bragging but you feel kind of weird being like happy like that's like a weird thing to say it's easier to talk about the shit that's going god it away. Well i mean people brag about oh i met my partner jogging and it was a really gas story. He ran into me and i. It was tying my shoe. But why can't we openly be like. Oh we met hinge. She had this really great line. Profile photo was this. And i said this to him like that could be part of a story to that. We can talk about totally. That is very much related to our question. 'cause speaking of online dating. I'm sure a lot of you are thinking about dating and meeting people in real life. So the question we've been getting lately is how can i increase my chances of being approached. Irl yes i love this. I mean i think first and foremost i do this out of nervous energy is just be on my phone or not maybe not even nervous energy but this feeling like i need to be preoccupied at all times. Yeah and i think if you were staring at your phone no one has come up to you know one so i think that's probably like step one. I think also big groups like anything time that you're with like more than one or two people max. It's very very intimidating for someone to come up to you. So i think some of approachability is you know like setting yourself up that you look like someone that wants to be talked to whether that's like freeing yourself from distractions but also not making the barrier so huge that someone has to fight their way through. Yeah think about the other person. And the other person's biggest fear is rejection. they don't wanna be rejected so when they see you. They're looking for all the signs to lessen their chances rejection. So one way people can do. That is the approachability if you we've heard this before if you wear something that is a conversation starter where it's like your alma mater sweatshirt whether it's a specific sports team or or a specific brand that you love it garners attention and a garner's inspires people to come and talk to you and be like. Hey i went to the rivalry school. And i can't believe we're in the same city you know. So that's that's part of the approachability. The other approachability is mindset. I think a lot of times we go out there with the mindset of. I hope someone approaches me to a lot of onus on the other person what have you change your mindset to. I welcome other people into my space today.

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That creates a much friendlier. Approachable mindset in your energy will attract a similar type of energy so instead of being like me versus you. You'd better approach me. It's like i welcome you into my sphere. I love that. I think i'm going to give a shout out to one of our moderators caitlyn. Who i think doesn't really great job with this at i think nothing. She said these people have asked her in. The group is that she positions herself. She goes to a brewery or basically part of positioning yourself as finding locations. That are gonna be with the types of people you want to be. Meeting is on that one and then she'll find that like let's say she's in a brewery she'll find area that's near you know. Hawkeye's 'cause that's she's straighten that to she's attracted to and i think positioning you're kinda like allowing what you just said you a like meeting that person halfway like how can you be like totally in an area that someone has no line of sight to you and just hope that they get like this. You know radio signal to come over and find you. Yes perfect being approachable in real life just means you have to make yourself approachable. And so hopefully those are some pointers. You can take onto your next solo date or master date or just walking around your neighborhood. I think the other pieces that were always in our head that we people that we're hoping they approach us but why not approach them if everyone else's hoping they're getting approach to and that kind of is what ends up happening is no one's approaching anyone. I mean it's i feel like there's no harm in just like making some small talk to someone. I know it's easier said than done. It's not something. I'm good at it all some not like saying that. You know it's the easiest thing to do but i think sometimes people get in their head with it. That's someone doesn't wanna talk to them but at the same time that's why they're out in about hoping that someone talks to them. Yeah stop putting the onus on other people what can you do in this moment in time to get what you're looking for right so taking control of all that so hopefully that could be a question for a future episode. How do you approach people in real life. Look for that coming soon on the data cast. Let's get into some announcements for this week. In addition to our new seasons starting we are also rolling out our new version of the sounding board. So we've been talking about this quite for quite a bit sounding. Board is a next level of dateable if you wanna connect with think about as like taking our relationship to the next level dateable is kind of like you're just talking to each other which is great but sounding board is like we're we're in some sort of like a thing a situation ship right and your committed relationship. It's a relationship it's official and not only. Are you in a relationship with julian. Is your relationship with all the other people that are part of the community so we been iterating on with sounding board should be like and has been such a wonderful experience and we know that for this next iteration we want a little bit more intimacy and as a little bit more time with all of you so the new version of the sounding board is that there is only one level which makes it much easier and this level includes podcast discussions because we realized after you listened to an episode. There's a lot to talk about. And maybe there are other people in your life who don't listen to dateable and you know you can't talk to them about the episode so why not be part of a group of people who listen to the same episode as you and they wanna talk about it at the other part of the sounding board that. We're really excited about our. Were calling office hours with julian. I where you get a chance to chat with us about anything and this is on a monthly basis where you get this desert designated time with the two of us and it is a free open form for you anything you wanna talk about and you can also what i love about. It is that you can learn from other people whether they're going through and one realize you're not in this alone and to learn from other people's challenges or experiences. It's kind of like a mastermind group that you'll have the opportunity in the office hours. We're transforming these from coffee chats and will have the opportunity to get specific on things that are happening on your dating life. Get you a and is feedback in addition to anyone else. That's in that room at that time. And then in addition to that you'll be getting these discussions like you a alluded to in some of that might be recapping past podcast but some of it also is. We're going to have hate using the word curriculum but it's almost like You know a list of more curated topics like Example one could be approaching in real life like what is allowing people to have this open conversation where we kinda get ideas from each other.

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I think obviously the podcast is great. But we're just talking out to you all wear. Yeah this allows you to kind of be talking to each other in someone might have been even listening to what you said it was like. Oh that's sparked this idea in this idea. And i think having the ability to do that in a discussion is gonna be really great in. The topics are going to range from all sorts of things to kind of these tactical topics all the way to like. Do i want children. How do i communicate to lead to a partner like Questions like that. We're going to go much deeper and it's going to be great. I am very excited. Our hosts are going to be leading a lot of these. It's gonna be just. I'm very excited for this next evolution of the sounding board so find out all about it at dateable podcast dot com slash sounding board. We're going to be rolling out a lot of content about the sounding board on our social channels as well as in the facebook community which is called love in the time corona by the data will podcast are to all of our new members who joined recently a whole influx. I think it's because of the delta variant like we're backing at it everyone out searching for love the time corona again thanks to all the new members joining us a look for all of that content where we'll be rolling that out in the meantime free to dm us on instagram because we are pretty active there. Yep it definitely follow us at dateable podcast awesome. Let's get into our sponsors. This episode is made possible by lugs and miss the golden age of the nineties. Lugs found its footing as a leader within the footwear and fashion space priding self on quality materials supreme comfort. The brand never wavered with the passing of trends whether you remember the brand's early appeal within the hip hop culture where the countless celebrity endorsements one thing remains the same lugs distinctive style. Julie and i both have few different styles of lug shoes ranging from their iconic boots to their canvas sneakers even though they're so different in style one thing remains the same there also comfortable and light. I love my flirt. Hides it boots that i can wear with summer. Dresses and my canvas sneakers go so perfectly with my jeans and t-shirts fund comfortable everyday where realistically price and affordable so go treat yourself. You can never have too many pairs of legs exclusively for our beautiful listeners. Get thirty percent off full price items now by going to lug dot com and entering the co dateable. Again that's l. Dot com and entering the code dat ab l. e. For thirty percent off full price items. This episode is brought to you by the book. Open your heart by cherie hodges. Here's a quick summary of the book their families historic bed-and-breakfasts in charleston. South carolina is a legacy the four very different richerson sisters are determined to protect at all costs a sudden passion so seductive and dangerous complication. That's right here's a little more about the plot for fashion boutique owner yolanda richardson coming home as a matter of life and death witness to a brutal crime. She's terrified to per family. Be in the crosshairs. After she starts receiving death threats her only refuge. The protection of reserved hired bodyguard. Charles morris but charles is anything but safe as icy cool under fire in hidden intensity is chew explosive for yulon to resist mind out of yulon disabled to keep her distance by reading the book. Open your heart by cherie. Hodges you can find it wherever books are sold or by going to kensington books dot com. Okay so let's get into the episode. Vanessa richardson myself. And paul we do. Welcome to california ground breakers which focuses on the place that starts trends starts movements and shakes up how things are done nationwide and around the world. We're inviting interesting. People doing innovative things to sit down and talk with us about how they're asking and answering the big questions facing all californians. Our goal is to inspire change across the state one conversation at a time. We've created a podcast series called this changes. Everything which focuses on what california will look like in the post pandemic future. we're talking with california ground. Breakers about how they see the golden state changing for the better or for the worse or still to be determined as we move out of shutdown. We wanna give thanks to our donors like john and francis ause who funded the production of this episode. If you like what you hear please help us. Continue by making a podcast. creation donation. Click on the support us. Link on our soundcloud podcast page or from a donate tab of our website california ground breakers dot org long ago. Andy before times. A first date often evolved dinner and a movie a few drinks in a crowded bar and if things went well a good night kiss cut to the year. Twenty twenty in which the corona virus changed all of that was social distancing mask-wearing and the threat of catching a deadly disease.

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But right now when every adult is eligible for vaccination in able to do more of their regular again dating has come back in force the hottest pickup line right now maybe a unvaccinated but romance never go back to what it once was for. Some people corona virus brought on stressors and fears too heavy to shake off overnight. Other single people said the pandemics long periods of isolation have inspired awakenings and shifted their priorities for better or worse. What does the future hold for. Modern dating romance and relationships. Join us as we talk with two people who focus on getting the answers to those questions. Paul eastwick is a professor of psychology at uc davis and as the head of the university's attraction and relationship research lab julie craft chick is producer and co host of the podcast. Dateable focuses on sex love dating and relationships and how people go about getting them. They will tell us what to expect when it comes to virtual and face to face dating how to keep current relationships going. And whether it's really shaping up to be a hot vacs summer. Hi everyone my name. Is vanessa richardson. I'm executive director of california ground breakers and. Thank you for tuning in today. So we're recording this episode just before memorial day weekend the unofficial kickoff to summer and this year. It seems like it's the start of shock girl summer or hot dax summer for those of you have ever heard never heard those terms. I just heard them a couple of days ago. There are play on hot girl summer. That's the title of the hit song from megan th-they stallion in the summer of two thousand nineteen which seems like forever ago but now as we enter the summer of twenty anyone about half of eligible americans are on the verge of full vaccination and we're coming out of her home to do more of the things that we used to do pre and that includes two things historically have caused us both incredible joy and maybe also incredible frustration fear loathing dread and that is finding and maintaining a good relationship so for some people. The prospect of dating like normal is exciting for others. It can be like fota or fear dating again because post pandemic dating could be a total question mark and a leap into the unknown and for those who are in relationships that happened before the pandemic or started during the pandemic the future may also be an unknown since the corona virus has caused all of so many stressors personally and professionally which can take a toll on romance passion and affection for the person that you may have been holed up with in the same house for the past fourteen plus months so i brought together to people who look in depth at the topics dating and relationships on a regular basis and probably get asked a lot of questions about those topics regular basis. Maybe even more so these days than ever before. I'm going to ask him some questions own and a few that gathered for interested parties about relationships romance and how to manage both of those as we step out of the pandemic so i i'd like to introduce paul eastwick. He's professor of psychology at the university of california davis and paul teaches graduate an undergrad courses on close relationships and evolutionary psychology. And he also runs the attraction and relationship research laboratory. Uc davis sounds like a very cool place to do research and so thanks for joining us. Thanks very much for having me. And also we have julie crap chick. She is co host and producer of dateable. One of the top podcast about love sex and dating with a focus on the modern culture of dating and why people date the way they do and last year julie started the online communities love and the time. A crooner lebron title and also the sounding board to let dateable listeners. Discuss all the changes happening in the dating landscape. Do the pandemic julie listen. San francisco under other job is as an app designer and researcher who focuses on using technology to foster human connection. So julie welcome to as well so this is a very. This is a very exciting conversation. I've just i'll tell you. I'm i'm not i'm dating. I'm not a relationship. I'm just kind of on the fence right now. So it's not bomo but it's also not yolo. But i'd love to hear what questions answers to the questions that i have and others so i'm going to start with kind of overview questioned about maybe what you had heard or seen or viewed in the past in the past year about what people are thinking doing feeling about having or seeking a relationship during the pandemic. I know paul. You didn't ask me anything on reddit. A few months ago so i. I saw some interesting questions that you were outside. I took a few them to add later on to ask you and julia with your sounding board and love and a time of calera i bet you get a whole bunch so i just wanted to ask ask you both blake from things like that questions coming in. What are some notable things that you've seen if anything about people's views of dating relationships during this past year and a half julie darsur i mean honestly i think it's come in waves.

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It's been a long year and a half for sure. And i think people started off super excited about this new virtual way of dating and then when shutdowns continued and continued people lost a lot of hope. And now i think it's on the upswing again because there's a light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccine and i think people like people's experiences greatly vary too like i think a lot of it depends on their personal situation like some people have said that like being single right now is really freaking hard and it's kind of like that underrepresented Demographic that no one's talking about during the pandak and then other people are living their best life kind of like with enough support and you know have been continuously dating during this time in just taking those safety precautions. Doing video dates to start doing socially distanced park dates. Now that things are opening up again meeting outdoors at restaurants so it's changed the way we date we don't have the same ver- like non verbal cues a physical touch that once where present so i think people have adapted but i think it really depends again on people's safety levels and what they're looking for if they've been dating during this time or not you know. I often think about the things that online dating has given us over the last few decades. And it's very fortunate. I think for a lot of people that online dating was a thing that existed in the forms that it did during the pandemic because it it's You know dating during that period of time in the absence of online dating you can imagine how tricky an how Frankly dangerous that could have been but the version of online dating. That people have been doing is a very intentional. Form of dating. A lot of people describe it as work right. You have to sit down at your computer and whether it's go through messages or do your swipe your daily swiping or or Or do you do your video chats and it is not quite the same as the serendipitous you happen to run into this person two times over the last ten days and now you struck up a conversation like there's a a serendipitous way that Use that would have been very prominent prior to the pandemic. And i'm curious to see if people are gonna remember how to do that once we get back out there. Yeah that that ties in great paul with the next question i hab focusing on online dating because it did seem like before the pandemic i got the general sense people were like. Oh tender is swiping and You get a text says. Hey and that's it and there's no. The interaction is just pretty fast and furious or or non existed and these are just a couple of people telling me that with online dating during the pandemic. It does seem more intentional. People have to make more of an effort. There may be more willing to make more of an effort and one of my friends like courting in jane austen era where it's slow moving. There's maybe more if not letter writing more detailed conversation before Taking the plunge in whatever way because there's that cautiousness and there is more that Distance that you have to take for health reasons. I was wondering if it that seems applicable to either view A little more intentional Especially with the dating whether it's online or face to face absolutely like i think that is a word that we keep hearing and it was actually going to mention that from paul to set intentional. Definitely stands out to me as what has really changed during this pandemic in app usage. It's been super interesting because a lot of you know like the bay area absent been around for a long time. This has been something that's been prominent in a lot of our dating lives before the pandemic but we've noticed with our communities. It's all around the country. We even have people in different countries that are weighing and a lot of people of different demographics. We have people that range from you know gen z. To gen-x and i think a lot of people are trying online dating for the first time. Which i mean because they were forced to write like. There's no other outlet. And i think the experiences have greatly vary depending on people. I've heard these like ultra romantic things. That kind of batch of what. You're just saying vanessa. About like the jane austen side. It's like i've heard of people like do like sending like virtual flowers like through or like you know serenading over zoom like there's been some really nice stuff that have come out of this or even doing a picnic in the park like that's very romantic but then i think the same frustrations with dating apps.

00:35:05 - 00:40:01

I think initially at the start. We were hoping that people would reset a bit and there wouldn't be as much of the ghosting there wouldn't be as much of the flaking bread crumbs all the stuff that's been like traditional challenges with dating apps but that stuff has persisted and i think ultimately it comes down to the individual like i look at dating apps as a vehicle. There are new way to meet new people that you wouldn't have come in contact with before. And i think a lot of people can get hung up with on the behavior of humans on these dating apps so i think that it's been a really interesting time that more and more people have been on dating apps than ever before in a lot of new people have been circling in you know i'm often fond of Emphasizing for people this idea of using dating apps to reach out to different social circles and to treat it a little bit less like a market that you're trying to succeed in and i do think that that is one of the The one of the challenges of online dating is that when you Limit people's exposure to what you're really like you tend to reward. Things like physical attractiveness obviously in the form of photographs. Or whatever you post but also letter writing skills right. I mean you know sort of in in In the eighteen hundreds right you would be rewarded for those kinds of skills. And i think we lose sight of the fact when people naturally move in at in and out of different social networks when people Have more happenstance encounters meeting friends of friends. Doing various other activities Those are less market like than Than the than the sort of markets that online dating creates and. I think what that means is that it's it's a space where you have fewer winners and losers. It doesn't necessarily mean there's less heartbreak but it's a little bit more of an even playing field. Under those circumstances and one thing that i wonder about is how many people during the pandemic without that avenue in all at all just fell totally crushed by the inability to compete in the online dating space and You know that's something that That that i worry about a little bit that that without those sort of regular social interaction avenues that we didn't have that there is a big group of people out there who got left out. Let's has perfectly. you're you're tying into next question perfectly. I was wondering now that we're entering this summer weather. It's hot back shot backs or foam. Oh i've been reading a lot of commentary on what the summer post pandemic dating looks like. There's references a lot to the roaring twenties like with the previous pandemic. we had back in nineteen eighteen that led indirectly or in some ways to the roaring twenties people just letting loose But then someone also said could post world war two in a way where people just seen so much death and let's just get married and have a family a or is it just human psychology. So it's been fourteen months and we may not even remember this in a few years and people inevitably had their. There's personality psychology. They'll just act the way they do. so what. I don't know if you have thoughts about what you're what as we exit or the pandemic will there be some kind of mad rush to interact in person or to like commit be based on how you feel about this pandemic and its aftermath. I think it's gonna widely depend on people stage of life and where they are. I think it's hard to make overall lake sweeping views of the pandemics. I think people are in different places and that's even pre pandemic like we've seen the people that wanted to get out there and hook up and have casual relationships versus the people that have been longing for more serious committed relationships. And i definitely think it's going to have an over. I do think there's going to be like a roaring twenties five of just like i can already sense it with all the vaccines like people. Just getting out there. Whether that means that they're going like crazy and not having committed relationships or not. I think there's definitely going to be the need to socialize in person at that in we actually talked to a dating app founder. Recently on our podcast from coffee meets bagel and ask.

00:40:01 - 00:45:24

Do we think that you know the people that signed up for online dating or just gonna leave now in her. Take and i do agree with. This is like it might kind of pause in get diversified a bit when things start to reopen more but people have seen the benefit. That like you in theory can't go out every night of the week. I mean you could in theory. I shouldn't say that you can't but a lot of people have other responsibilities. They can't do that into meet people all the time that way. So i think if people start diversifying what paul said hopefully it will be healthier because it will give one outlet. It won't be the only outlet. But i think like in general people have become very intentional of what they're looking for and i think the people that want of committed relationship are still going to go down that path just because not because the vaccine is out. Yeah i think that's right. I think it's a. It's a good bet that people are going to be interested in something more serendipitous right putting themselves in situations where anything can happen right. I mean these were You know sort of movies that i associate with ten even twenty years ago but you know the the you know one night out movie and and all the things that can happen you know that are totally unpredictable and I'd be willing to bet that those are the kinds of experiences that people have largely Felt like bear missing and And it'll be interesting to see how the landscape shifts if people decide they wanna they wanna put themselves in situations where those things can happen again. Hi this is. Caleb clark executive producer of california craters podcasts. We're working on more episodes of this changes. Everything literally as i speak but putting them together takes a fair amount of time and money. If you like what. You're hearing this episode and you want to hear more of them. You can help us. In two ways. I consider being groundbreaker support right now by making a podcast creation donation flick on these support california ground breakers blogs on the right hand side of our podcast page on soundcloud. That's at soundcloud dot com slash california ground breakers or. Click on the. Donate tab of our home page of our website at california ground dot org and if you have questions to ask about how california will change post pandemic times or you want to suggest a topic to cover or an expert to interview for an episode of this changes everything email us at info at california ground breakers dot org and give us a few details so we can get in touch. Thanks for lending us your ears and giving us your support as well. We're doing an episode Right after yours Looking at youth and young adults just how the pandemic has changed so many things for japan's ears. Young millennials And actually this ties in to question. I have for you. Paul that you got on again. I mentioned up top. You did read it. ask anything i think. It was three months ago definitely was spring and i thought this was an interesting question because i feel like i hear this a lot at i read this a lot about. What's your opinion on love. That doesn't feel ultra passionate so this person was thirty one and in a one year relationship a cova nineteen relationship where she felt that she wasn't the one It's feels more mature compared to one that he had twenty years old eleven foresight and butterflies. But i find it difficult to to judge. So what do you do when you don't consider yourself massively in love especially after one year and you have doubts. Should you continue. And how passionate should it feel. So i was wondering this i read. I'm a genetic sir but this view of what's what's the purpose or what's the role of passionate and butterflies in the stomach and so forth This isn't just a pandemic specific question. But maybe this view of relationships going forward. What does passion how to do that anymore. Is it more or less or again. Is that just a sweeping generalization. But it just seems like a question. When i saw that one. I thought i keep seeing a lot of people asking questions like that to my personal life. So i wasn't sure if it was a trend yet i mean this is a tricky question and with with all of Amy questions that ended up getting sort of bound to a specific narrative. I mean i think that you know. We all are sort of aware of this when it's our own lives but it's hard to appreciate when it's about other people's lives is that there's a deep narrative that emerges in the context of any one relationship right. How did you get to this point. And where was the passion. And where did it go because it usually does fade At least to some extent foremost people that is the average thing that you tend to see And you know are the things you can do to get it back Probably there are ways of changing activities and and doing more novel and exciting things together that have been shown that that can increase passion to some extent but the broader question of like.

00:45:24 - 00:50:03

How do i know whether this is the relationship for me or not. Is one of the most deeply personal questions that we don't have good clear answers for. It is nearly impossible to take everything about your relationship right now and do much to predict about whether it's gonna get better or get worse from here right all right. It's it's like the best we have is the moment of where you are right now So so These things ended up being extremely challenging because the predictability of relationships is Is is so so tricky and pretty little. You know what's really fascinating though. Is that a lot of people that have had covert relationships. Their relationship has been set up differently depending on when they met during cove it of course but the people that have met when we were really homebound a lot of them are like doing their first trips together there. I like meeting of friends and family and stuff that they might have done earlier on because of covert right. So i think it's i mean i. I don't think we have like the data at this point to see how these turn out because it's just too early but it's gonna be really interesting to see if like there's an opposite passion spike. Because they're now like doing more like activities and doing more stuff out in the world's a good point there's a case to be made that the elongated trajectory that some of these relationships would've had Will lead those initial experience. It will just feel like a longer initial phase For those relationships. And that's on that sort of interesting to speculate about and consider we've also heard about turbo relationships and that this is a term that has basically been like the relationship on turbo speed. So like people that you know are are like moving. Ultra fast because you know at like with the pandemic people are doing less cereal dating. They're committing faster especially when there's no sexual activity involved it's like you know cove it is an std's so it's like there's different things that have changed the way that people like project their relationship timelines and we've seen personally some of that workout really great. It's like move fast track like one of the things that we said before. The pandemic was that everyone was kind of in this game of relationship. Chicken like no one wanted to make the move and it just kind of sat idle because both people weren't like moving it forward and we've seen people move forward. And i think some of those have been great. They've resulted in like longterm relationships. And then others have fizzled out fast. Which might not be the worst thing i think lake like startups fail fast mentality. And sometimes it's better to learn quickly that it's not a compatible match then to have something span out seeing someone once a week for like six months to a year then realizing that. Let's take a break from this riveting discussion for quick passage. This episode is made possible by one of our favorite shows. Bachelor. impera dice. listen up monday on. Abc love is a beach and some will get burned bachelor in paradise finally back with your favorite bachelors and bachelorettes looking for love in all the right and wrong places. It's going to be s. p. f. up starting monday on. Abc these guys and gals have waited a long time to get back to the beach and they're just bursting thirsting and pounding against The waves and just to make it a bit hotter. A few celebrities are packing their bags. To guest. Host david spade low john lance bass and more will dip their toes in the paradise waters. Season king queen victoria find. Her king will connor. The cat proved that he can kiss. Well anyone even talked to carl. It's paradise like you've never seen and who knows someone or some ones might get married. Think you've seen this before beach. Please bachelor in paradise. Premieres monday at eight seven central on. Abc now back to this episode. And this is something that i have noted in terms of looking at people's instagram feeds for the past fourteen months. Every so often rashly. More than i thought. I would see our photos of people who just got married in their backyard or in a park. And they're all masked with their. You know two or four or ten people attending and i remember before the pandemic there was just so much focus on weddings.

00:50:03 - 00:55:06

And all the reality shows the bridezillas shows just wedding with such a big deal. And i thought that's interesting to me my friends who just said i wanna get married. I want to get married. I don't need the wedding. And i was wondering if that makes marriage stronger because it wasn't about the wedding but i just thought that's very notable to me to see that you know maybe the pandemic made them think differently about what matters in a relationship and this celebration of love with all your hundreds of friends in a big cake may not be as big a deal thought So that was just my take. I was insurer if you had any thoughts on that yeah you know. The nature of marriage has has changed a lot even over the last few decades. Right wasn't that long ago where marriage was a thing you did as just one of many steps on the way to becoming an adult and now it's one of these markers of achievement that you You know that you acquire upon reaching adulthood. You need to be an adult in order to Be married and everybody comes together to celebrate your Your arrival at adulthood and It's it's You know. So i agree. There is a sense of If people are making the marriage is really just about the relationship and not about this sort of like a broader acceptance of of being an adult that might lead to better decisions. There's another there's a flip side to that which is that A really important predictor of whether relationships do well or poorly is whether you have support from your broader social network so Are your friends and family. Generally supportive of this relationship. And it'll be interesting to see what happens if people have gone through with these relationships haven't gone through the phases of meeting the friends and meeting. The parents and sort of negotiating. How those relationships are going to happen until you've already Seal the marriage. What what exactly is that going to do. Will those marriages be as integrated into People social networks as they would have been in. the past. I think is an interesting question. I mean i've seen and heard of couples that met during cova now getting married so their entire relationship has been in this like like year a fourteen month mark and you know on some side like there is studies. The older you get a lot of times relationships just move faster because you know what you want in your life wasting less time and just kinda moving on with life. But i think covert has given people a lot of time together to like. It's made us all slow down and really focus on more. The simple things in life and i think i agree with vanessa in the sense. That like there's something really nice about the fact that people are looking at marriage as not the big party but more just unifying their lives together that being said like i think it's a personal choice and i don't know if it's like an indicator that one is stronger than the other. I definitely have heard of people that are waiting. Because they do they see the value. Kind of like what. Paul was saying of like celebrating with friends and family and having that big celebration in starting that milestone next chapter in other people don't view it as much as that so i think it's just a personal decision but i do think it has changed weddings and the expectations of weddings. For sure and just a couple more questions for you. Both on that note again being a relationship the previous podcast episode. We did was on parenting during the pandemic end. Just work life balance How that will be addressed in. Maybe even resolved as we go out of the pandemic. But i was talking to two working parents to working mothers and i think like many of you. You also working parents. And just the frustrations just you know multiplied during the pandemic and it did make me think about you know. We're talking about child care and and work but we didn't talk about relationships in that episode. But it did make me think. How are these relationships coping. How can they handle them. How can they keep you know sanity and and closest and i know we talked about this earlier but i was wondering specifically what you're seeing what you're thinking about relationships that have been taking so many stressors than the past year and a half advice or just thoughts on on how to keep going and keep your sanity. I mean i think this the pandemic has definitely like shine to light on what is happening in relationships. Like i've heard of couples that have really thrived and brought their relationship to the next level. Because they're now spending all this time together. There's not as many distractions. But then i've also heard of the couples that look a lot of the issues are coming to the surface and i totally agree that when children are in the mix and home schooling in other stressors.

00:55:06 - 01:00:01

Like i mean. There's been a lot. I think there's two camps of people like there's the camp people that have had like it's been difficult in the pandemic because it's changed their life but they haven't had as many stressors necessarily as people that have lost their jobs or had someone ill from the pandemic or been home schooled. So i think the those there is a difference in how people are reacting to the pandemic based on individual circumstance. So i think it has brought like in. The times of stress has brought things to the surface that people may be weren't communicating beforehand. And i mean like you've heard. In china there was a lot of divorces. i haven't heard as many stats. Paul if you have in the us that happening as much but there was like a wild range of divorce that happened in china because the pandemic from this. And i think though. I've definitely heard stories of people that have split during this time too. Because it's the things that have come to the surface that were issues before but if just resonated so much further yeah. It's the you know these are good questions. And you know the speed of our discipline Works such that. We probably won't have good answers about this for a little while For whatever reason the kind of close relationships work we do. We don't work on the same timescale as the epidemiologists. So it'll take a little while before we're really able to unpack Sort of what happened to couples during the pandemic. What did stressors do on average. I mean it's it's a given. That spread is not good for relationships in general but the question is which couples experienced Sort of lockdown extended time together as a stressor and which ones didn't and You know would seems clear. Is that what Sort of these extended periods at home would have done is increased closeness but in a literal way. Right closeness in the form of we are spending more time together. Our decisions are more interdependent. Because now it's all meals together. Maybe before was just one or even zero per day. Depending on the kind of work you did But if you were able to do your job pretty well from home and really what happened to you is that you didn't have to do difficult. Commutes anymore and now you get to do multiple meals a day with your partner. That could be a a a great thing for your relationship Other people like you were saying julie. It could very well expose all sorts of rifts that people were just able to ignore before because the littoral closeness wasn't there that that That you know sort of allowed them to to get by without these things so Closeness is a tricky thing You know if you If you end up with more of it you may discover all sorts of new opportunities in that relationship or you may discover. There were things that weren't working so great. All right last question for you both this. This is an advice one honestly because it deals again like there's a lot of people who wanna go out just to enjoy the summer and just to get out. Now that that june fifteenth is that magic day when we can all in mask here in california but they're still feels that i know i feel this way to. It's just that it has been a year and a half and being socially awkward and maybe not remembering what things were like or how they will be like now. What do you have any advice about leaving house and going out to be social whether you're looking or not and And and getting over maybe that uncertainty or effacing the uncertainty about dating in a post pandemic era. Yeah i think this is very real like i think. We all thought like oh students were let out. It's going to be super easy or we're going to do this but there's been so many things like i've lost all my social skills during this time and i think again it's case by case like i think the people actually in our own community Love and the time of corona and the sounding board. They've actually been like flexing their social muscles virtually during this time. And i'm sure there's other ways that people have been doing this club. Houses like exploded during this time and other apps like that to recreate some of this virtually that being said. That's not the same as in person. And i think sometimes it's it's gonna be a personal decision of how ease back in like we've heard people even say like. I'm used to wearing sweatpants. Close overwhelming so. I think it's like maybe you're going out at a like a super fancy dress day. One like it's like. How do you take those baby steps and again with dating to it's like maybe you're not overloading your calendar. Maybe you're still doing video like we've heard from people that overall video has been a great way to screen dates.

01:00:01 - 01:05:13

People don't wanna be on video calls forever anymore but it's still a good way to like get excited about the date. Feel more comfortable about who you're meeting so maybe that stays and i think there's a lot of social proof that that will stay so maybe it's just easing back in and taking the little steps that you need and i think just saying to people on dates like hey. I like v. oddest. Like i feel socially rusty like i am a little uncomfortable right now but i'm super excited to be here with you. It's like all how you can be vulnerable and spin it. I think that's right. I think it's going to be a lot of the whole body. Non verbal stuff. That's gonna feel especially odd in the beginning right when you're you know the idea of standing and talking to somebody face to face like looking at them in the is like their actual is that are just a few feet away from you like boy. Does that sound unusual. Something that we haven't done on a regular basis and so if people need to give themselves a break To the extent that that feels awkward an unusual maybe try Doing some social things where you don't have to look directly at each other Whether that's no you know you're you're sort of facing in the same direction talking. I mean you know associated with the typical way that that Men interact with each other sort of kind of in the same direction but definitely not at each other. And that's a hailing the non verbals lilies. I think just picture that on a day kind of like five things. I think the one thing that actually is going to come out from this people need to be more verbally expressive. Like in the past. You had you know like indicators of interest on a date would be like touching someone's lag or lightly touching their arm in that i don't think is gonna like jive well in this post pandemic world. I think it's going to be more like. Hey can i kiss you like actually saying it not just going in for it as i could be very jarring when we haven't been doing that for quite some time. Please submit a request. Jane austen style. Please all right well. I bought a dress guy now. I'm going after hearing this i. I'm not sure i did buy address. I bought a lipstick about some sandals. Because i do want to enjoy the summer. It's my favorite season whether we'll meet anyone or not. Who knows but it's just it's very fun to to get out again and this has been very very useful information for me. At least i'm hopefully for others so i want to say thank you. Thank you julie. Thank you paul for coming on and talking to us about this. You know what this summer will like whether it's hot backs or or not going to be interesting to see and i look forward to seeing that study whenever it comes out. Thank you for having us was some fun. This thanks a lot. You've been listening to california ground. Breakers this changes everything episode nine which was recorded on may twenty seven two thousand twenty one. Thanks to paul eastwick and julie craft check for taking the time to talk with us special. Thanks again goes. Toward donors. John and francis toz for funding the production of this episode. Also thanks to nate. Graham and caleb clarke for recording and producing this podcast and of course thanks to you for listening you find our podcast worth listening to these difficult times. Please make a donation and support our efforts to produce informative and inspiring conversations about what californians should expect in the post pandemic future. You can do that as well as keep tabs on upcoming podcast episodes events and other information about us by going to our website california ground breakers dot org dateable. Podcast is part of frolic podcast network. Five more podcasts. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation. I follow us on instagram. Facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable. Podcast tag us in any post with the hashtag. Stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts then head over to our website dateable podcasts dot com there. You'll find all the episodes as well. As articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts you can also find our premium y series where we dissect analyze and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums roseau downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast. Google play overcast. Stitcher radio and other podcasts. Platforms your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave us a review and most importantly remember to stay dateable gym sessions and sweaty summer activities are back which means more funky sales in your clothes because sweat leaves behind bacteria that causes those hard to remove odors clorox fabric sanitizer products are ready to zapped stink out of fabrics in your home by getting rid of ninety nine point.

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