BONUS: How to Rethink Relationships Post-Quarantine w/ Liza & Kimmy from 51 First Dates

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The Dateable podcast is an insider's look into modern dating that the Huffington post calls one of the top ten podcast about love and sex. On each episode, we'll talk to real daters about. From sex parties to sex droughts, date fails a diaper fetishes and first moves to first loves. I'm your host Yue Xu, former dating coach turned dating sociologists. You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Krafchick as we explored this crazy dateable world. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Dateable A- show all about modern dating. We love to talk about modern dating, but we also love to dig into Y Y whys of why people do the things they do and why people behave the way they do and one of the questions that's been a huge Y. my head is have you been watching selling sunset? Sunset. Are you are you like that is? fucking. Why what happened between crucial and Justin? Yes. So for anyone that's been living under broad, I mean you've probably seen it but Justin Hartley in this us who is such a swin where they? Like type to the T.. Who was a nobody? Yeah the way he was like a soap star when he and Cra Shell started dating dated for four years and then as soon as they got married, I think happened around the same time that he got on this as us and he he blew up, he got really big and the crucial basically has like dying soap career. So now she's on a show. Called selling sunset on Netflix where they sell like she's a realtor. But on season three, which just came out on net flicks they disclose that he basically went to TMZ and said I follow her divorce from her and from her side of the story as she only knew forty-five minutes before this, all came out into the public I know it's so crazy but he apparently if you've. got. You know you. Go on this show at I finish it I go to like ultra research mode and he apparently did not like the way he was portrayed on selling sunset. So who knows it is definitely a mystery but I also get it like I. Mean we get it right like there's only so much you can disclose about your personal life There's certain times that I'll say something that's like very evasive. In it's because I'm like respecting the privacy of someone else. So I get it and I think it's one of those things like they built it up as much as they could. But hit a point that they just couldn't say anything more. Yeah. But he claims in interviews that there was a very good reason for the divorce and he's not going to disclose it, but he's waiting for her to do it. Also. I mean it's just I. Still think regardless of what happened between them. We can't judge couples as we know relationships are all very different, but it just shows you that they have poor communication, right? Yeah. That's like basically what it's saying I don't don't really care who's at fault at this point they're both at fault because they have not like seriously you cannot be blindsided when someone else's you that is like the worst thing that you could possibly do to your partner. So was this how you spent your weekend too 'cause I definitely spend. got a Friday night I went out for dinner with some friends and one to were couple. They're like really into selling sunset. She's actually a real attorney, but she hadn't seen it yet. We just going to tout I. loved it like my friend's boyfriend was equally suggested in it. I, don't know if your boyfriend has been too but like it was so funny we were just all like Oh, my God after the sitter we're all gonna go back it stream it because it came out on Friday. Yeah I came on Friday I no idea except for my friend texted me and said I just watched the entire season three of selling sunset and I was like Holy Shit it's out because I, knew about the divorce obviously the to it in in the last season it's just awful. I think it's awful and I also think it's crap that Davina basically defended Justin was like Oh, there are two sides to every story like fuck you defend your friend and your I mean I'm not a fan of her general but I go on a binge after apparently a lot got cut out for that scene so they. Clearly, like there's a, there's a portrayal role that they're having her play. I'm not defending her I don't love her, but there's I wonder how much of its herb versus the character that they need to be like the villain, right? That's true. The WEIRDO I don't know she's so clearly she's like in a super serious relationship I've never seen them mention her boyfriend ever I always thought like that one that police judgment on everyone else didn't have going on in her life.

00:05:03 - 00:10:23

So it's just hard to know with reality TV is reality TV for a reason but yeah, I, do you know? This is what I think happened I think when they first started the show Davina was already working there and everybody else was cast to be part of the show because that's why they're all like blonde with big boobs and Davinos like an actual person that that worked their employees I think she came with the group and they were like we got to create a character out of her will you gotta make her into something and I, think for I two seasons they don't know how to portray her and season three. They're like files just make her into a villain she's got somebody. I know I. Feel like a very busy weekend doing not that much but. I mean I go off for dinner a couple of times. That's like the big news of a court post corps life. But outside of selling sunset, I also need to catch up on this dating APP experiments. Have you been very busy week and unfortunately it did not be wasn't able to use hinge as much as I would've liked in this week. So he basically had a cram it all in from Friday to Sunday so I was in. Yeah. Do you want the rundown can start where to even start? You gave me last time we talked a few different locations and we got on of locations in from listeners but I decided that I'm for anyone that hasn't heard this yet I. Decide I've been doing this experiment where I changed my location on hinge and go to different cities to see what the dating APP experiences like and I think what I realized is one I'm ready to start dating again more. And I want that to be in my own city because I've done long distance before I don't really want to recreate that some like I want to be more intentional and go back to where I actually am and then second I feel like a few people were kind of like wait. So you don't live here like I got a few of those and I just don't want to keep doing it. So that was like another reason in general also. So the few places that we decided on was Calgary in Canada. That was the one that was really by one of our lovely facebook and. Shannon we'll give you a shutout she. Has To go to Calgary that we put on the list. I also did Melbourne, which is one that you said for. International, and actually one of the people that wrote to us on instagram suggesting Melbourne hit us up and said I was so happy that Melbourne was picked. Can you also throw in Sydney because apparently they're back on locked out so I'm like, okay, I'll do. So this is. The day the expire red spirals. And then I did Washington DC talked about in then I did. A really quickly over Miami. Okay. So all all these places in three days. Yeah but. They all start to like merge together. But one thing I do before I go into this week's results. One of the things last week that I mentioned was how attractive the man in Chicago Chicago in the no one reached out to me and also how like much more Jewish. Or more Jews than I would have expected in Chicago in less diverse than I would have expected. We actually had a listener right in the she used to live in Chicago she lives in Connecticut now and she had the same exact experience hinge that all these guys would be there and she none of them would ever initiate or match with her so she thought. I don't know I. Don't know if that's true. It might not be like it's again it sample size a to Dow, but apparently someone else has also experienced this. So it's not just me but she did say that hinge apparently drew more of a Jewish crowd. She was also a fellow Jew and she said it did not represent the diversity of Chicago like other data gaps so I wanted to bring this in one. You know give that background but also there is a little bit of bias on my experiment because I'm only in hinge is oh, is the founder Jewish? No, I don't think sorry 'cause usually the APP reflects who the founder is, but I don't know I mean there's interesting. There could be some biases that my experiment has because only on. Hinch as well. Yeah or it's for the Jews who are sick of J. Day or Days, Wipe Yeah. Okay. So where did you start? Okay so I went to Melbourne and. I love that I went to Bell Bird, I mean I was on my couch oughta hedge in. Selling Suntan. multitasking through this really busy weekend I had. So in general, there was just a super lead bagger pull up my notes only I can't even remember all this super lead back like surfer vibe in Melbourne just a tractive men in general and like I could do this diverse occupations in general a lot of creative types I noticed a lot of writers, Shins but then also engineers teachers it really was across the board tacticians architects like a really was all over the place I found that it was like pretty much all white.

00:10:24 - 00:15:04

Like Mary Little Diversity in general and. So, then I went to Sydney and there was a lot more diversity sitting like way more than Melbourne and. The hot tip that I got from the listener that hit us up on instagram was to hit up Sydney because they went back into lockdown thinking that it would be very active in boy was an active. I. got. My hinges up to like a few hundred people right now like sending me messages. I need to let it simmer down for a couple of days before I. Go back to ask because I don't even know where anyone's from anymore. That is rate dating tip. You find out what city is on lockdown and just go go there. Like matches like blew up, and then in general, the guys were still very attractive. I feel like there were the occupations were more still diverse like Melbourne. But more office jobs slightly more of that and then one of the things I noticed is that like the guys because a lot of them did actually message me and they were cheeky like I like in. British guys but a little more arrogant. American vibes cheeky this if that, like a lot of them are like, Oh lucky you vast beer like Ho like there is a joke about it. It wasn't serious like they would like throw it out, but it'd be I don't. I can't remember all the messages offhand but they were there. There's like a little arrogance throated I guess it's. Not Really. Because I feel like British are almost like self deprecating. Yes and I liked that a lot more. All right that's learning a little something about yourself to a lot of them work for us. If some of them were like, let's like one guy was like let's meet up and I was like I'm only visiting I didn't say that was. Let me. Tell you. I was visiting for this hour on hinge. Light he's like what hotel you stay where you take. and. I'm like. Aren't you guys in lockdown like? Doesn't matter. Like he's like, let's continue this condo on the phone and I'm like Oh my God like we just have like a couple. Of. I can't not saying this is all people. Experience. It just felt it a little more than other places that people were which I guess the positive is that they were down to meet up young people complain that their city like Chicago right? Like no one's reaching out besides the couple of cheeky arrogant ones there was a lot of initiation, but it was like lazy it was like, Hey, are you? It wasn't anything like I looked in your profile and saw something nothing thoughtful in their defense they probably looked at my profile was like I don't recognize Eddie of. Live there. So right right. So that was. Australia I guess I. Hit up a few places there. Calgary I think everyone's just looks so friendly, Calgary and I don't know that's just my perception of Canadians coming through. But I definitely picked up there was a lot of like. Like happy energy that I was seeing a lot of outdoor shots, some hockey picks that also fell into stereotype sounds about right I. think at first I was getting this all American vibe, which is kind of ironic in Canada but it was like what your stereotypical like American Dude looks like but then it started to get more diverse. Janice actually mentioned Calgary was quite diverse for Canada. So it definitely I saw that it wasn't all white man and then I noticed a lot of not as many office jobs. They're like a lot of people in like owners of their own businesses and stuff like maybe it's because of universal health care right the Canada has that as well and I don't even know what the industry is in Calgary. No idea. It was all over the place and the one thing that I was expecting from. Genesis. Post is war cowboy boots and I did not see that maybe I was not swiping long enough you. It's the way she's described, Calgary. Souther. The men are very traditional and they're like traditional gender roles and their cowboys. Like. Sounds like Texas. I could see the traditional from what I saw but I did not see the cowboy boots but maybe it was just the people I ended up swiping or maybe a tinge maybe for whatever reason they're not going there as much. So then onto DC a lot of Jewish lawyer is like to me that was like my.

00:15:05 - 00:20:00

Not Kidding. But then in general, it was mostly white and black but like there were some other races but I would say it was predominantly those two out of everywhere definitely more liberals than some of the other places I've been seeing I. Still Think Assaf might be more people might say that even more but it was definitely prominent there as well. I mean this isn't everyone but I did notice more men with photos of their kids in profile in there. Okay. So also just in general like where people worked, it was like not pro nonprofit public affairs government like the stereotypical. Industry. But what I really loved about DC, and I might actually like of all the places I've been. I might put this at the top because of this people just seem really smart introspective like some of the answers in the profiles to seemed like really like on point I dunno I noticed it was a noticeable difference than some of the other places That's interesting. Finally, the last rundown is Miami. So allow day over Yup quit stay here a Lotta A lot. Of Latino Hispanic people from South America a lot of Jews also, I don't know if I'm just noticing juice because I'm Jewish but I did notice it s south Florida, does have that vibe also people were just like very like swamped like they were a tragic but it was said by like it was like pose in front of a pool or ocean with my shirt type picks. Yeah. It just in general people were very in shape and then also variety of occupations. Shafts are people that own their own business like felt very beat i. didn't know what anyone really did. Trust. Fund babies got it noted. On my own business, maybe there's something culturally there that you don't want to disclose it. especially if you are your own business owner 'cause it's the Internet I don't know. I like to get to the bottom of this anybody dating in. MIAMI, please let us know what is this mystery of owning your own business and not disclosing what it is. So did you get any messages interesting messages from both DC Miami that you phone you need to be honest the all the people started blending together at the end. Yeah I think because. I was doing into small timeframe and I dislike haven't had time today the lake look at where all these people are coming from nothing. That's like stood out as a super interesting messages a lot of just like you know the basics of, Hey, there. How's your Sunday going? Are you coping with Oh never mind this guy asked me how are coping with the Rainstorm at no. No idea good question. Oh it looks like he's in D. C. Okay. You know the norm nothing like out of there was no one that I was like Oh my God I must respond to. So I had been like if I was in the place, I probably would have applied to both of those people. I think just some of it has to do with. Yeah. Yeah. But you you saw in D.C, profiles were more introspective messages weren't as well-thought-out? No, it's the same old. Same Old. Bullshit. So of the four places you went to if you had to move to one of them based on just your hinge experience, where would you go I'd probably say, DC I like matches, my intellectual, the importance of intellectual connection the most for me, the men were definitely the most attractive in Melbourne. Sydney, they're like a little too much for Ray. What's too much like I think it was just like the amount of volume that I got there. Or, maybe it's because I look you 'cause of not from there. You know. Who Does but yeah, I mean I guess I would say Melbourne's I did like the creative energy that a lot of them had or DC for the intellectual side. Cool. All right. So does this concludes you`re Okay this is this is a lot of work is that is a lot of. Yeah. I'm very jet. What time zone are you on I don't even know anymore. The best is when you get the message messages like I told you last week I got this one guy that reached out to me. I actually thought was really attractive and I thought he in a photo of Golden Gate Bridge. So I assumed he lived in SF. He's like wait so you don't live in Denver. Like. I guess you don't live and. Yeah. anyways. It was fun. I think it was served a purpose I guess my major takeaway from it is like there's not really huge differences in terms of like at least the way people interact I think every city has its nuance in terms of the types of people there for sure an occupation like certain cities that have known for certain industries in.

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The type of people they attract I don't think there was like a wildly like one city is better than the other maybe Sydney just outta pure volume but I don't know if that would have necessarily the quality the quantity the quality play was necessarily they're either there's also a huge difference between cities where people end up in cities were people grow up. It's the transient cities versus the hometown cities like I think Calgary is probably a home town city y'all's people are born and there probably generations there. But somewhere like DC probably majority of them are transplants. So you're GONNA see a lot more diversity and maybe just more people who are introspective because they probably lived in multiple places. Yeah. So interesting because like someone actually put this in our facebook group in. A discussion on like this is so dead on its we talk about numbers game all the time and I think her posts I might be butchering the exact statement, but it was like women when they're using dating APPs quantity isn't an issue but quality is for men quality is easier like there's more quality women that they interact with but quantity is the challenge. So we kind of have like the reverse. Ges So yeah, I mean it's it's an interesting. I would love for like a to do this a heterosexual man to get his perspective. So maybe if we have a brave audience member or listener that wants to take this on and give us the rundown, then we can put it out to the public. Yeah. Maybe we can do 'cause we always had this idea of fifty dates and fifty states back in the day when we first started dateable, then maybe someone could actually take that on your just try it out. Let's try fifty dates in fifty states will air your episode in two years. No just do one day per state near fifty. Fifty days speaking of fifty days. We this episode is a rerun of an. So we did on fifty first dates wig on I fifty one for. Adam Sandler. That's right. Yes. For Copyright Issues Fifty one first AIDS with Liza and Kimmy we had such a great time with them We talked about basically what post quarantine dating looks like which at this point like what I don't even know when post quarantine be but maybe it's like the transitional score normal noodles. Malia. Mask wearing life what I you know what I really find interesting about cumulus it is they started the podcast based. On dating experiment, which will get into for our season eleven, but we'll save that for later. But now they've basically concluded that experiment for themselves and they've gone on to just create this dating podcast now and it's fantastic. They're so fun. They're both base in New York except for Kimmy moved to La recently So they're getting we're getting that bi coastal insider inflow dating is like but before we get to this bonus episode, I do. I I. Know You're all waiting for the would you rather reveal right? So we started this last week, every Wednesday we would post a would you rather question on our instagram and we have you vote and then on this week we reveal the answer and last week. The question was, would you rather date someone who was like the stock market or who's like a savings account stock market meanings volatile needs, constant attention but potential high returns or savings account, which is like low maintenance low maybe low returns and doesn't need that much. Attention, and here's a result eighty. One percent of you said, savings account interesting intriguing. I'm not super surprised by this because I think people ultimately want stability but I also want to do this experiment mapped against how people actually behave 'cause I wanna, say, most people date the stock market when they're actually looking for savings account. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Look what people say what they do is very different a lot of times because people are going to. The savings account and they like the energy of the stock market. But then when you asked that question, you feel like you should say the savings account absolutely. If you're swiping on matches, you're not going to swipe on the profile that says low maintenance. You don't need to pay attention to me. I'm just super stable. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA. Swipe. On the person who's like adventurous Vita like to be spontaneous and I like to take spontaneous trips senior like, yes that's the one that crazy person But but you know that that's what the would. You rather really isn't like a helps you uncover what are your preferences does it? is it consistent with your behavior? So this week I have another right one.

00:25:08 - 00:30:04

So on Wednesday which is if you're listening to this episode once it comes out, it's Wednesday already go on our instagram at dateable podcast, the questions, their vote vote vote vote and we'll give you the results next week. Yes. Love it. So yeah follow us on Instagram. Koa We're hoping to grow it even bore. We're super excited and. One other asks that we have every week is to leave that rating and review. It really really does help us and so many of you guys have already done this in it. It's amazing seeing those reviews command like literally makes our day but even just doing the rating, it takes one second if you can leave us five stars. If you're truly enjoying this show, it helps us get amazing guests in you know. We're gearing up for season eleven, which is next week like I can't believe this off season is already done I feel like we've been doing so much but we have a great lineup and we'd love some even bigger names to help us do the rating review. So when we reach out there like Yep, this is legit I want to take my time and beyond the show and speaking of big names Elisa Schlesinger. Like for you to be. Alive every week. Day and plead for anybody who knows Elisa Schlesinger to reach out to her and be like, Hey, have you heard the dateable podcast? You should totally go on that show those girls would be your bff's by the way. So that's our ultimate celebrity dream come true. If you do know allies or somehow know someone who knows her please reach out to us we will be forever grateful and we have a big surprise for you coming as well. We will give you a prize. Can I throw in like one more low key guests that we're trying to get? Gosh can't it all? Drum. If anyone does it has a connection to her, she is a sexologist. Has a book called game a desire we would love to have her reached out to her still awaiting that response. So if anyone has that connection, let's do it. I'm still a big fan of hers from too hot to handle. That's reality. TV. Shows on earth. sheltered. No her she is very, that was she's a legit show you. Why did I take that Gig she is legit. Okay, well, this this episode, which is a great bonus episode is brought to you by two fabulous sponsors. You've all heard US talk about better help. You know it's really about these unprecedent time. Some of US may be experiencing really crazy feelings that we it's hard to decipher what we're feeling. So better help has been there especially for me to help with I have this anxiety issue I have sometimes depression and it's just it's great to know that better help has ensured that I'm not alone in this they offer online counseling with professional credible and compassionate therapist in a safe and private environment. Their counselors specialize in depression relationships, trauma and. Many other areas and with over three thousand us, licensed professionals across all fifty states they make it easier than ever to find help in fact. So many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. So now for data listeners, only you get ten percent off your month with the code. dateable guests are today by going to better help dot com slash dateable join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Simply fill up the questionnaire to assess your needs, and then you get matched with a suitable counselor. Again, that's better. Help Dot com slash dateable and USA Cote D A T E E. For ten percent off your first month our second sponsor. something. This episode is also brought to you by another fabulous book called the rebellious rancher. Here's Julie. Ready. After his father after his father decides to leave the ranch to his older brother, Ben Miller struggles to deal with his resentment when he's invited to develop a trail writing experience on the Morgan's dude ranch, ben jump at the chance. Soon, he's assigned mysterious client and actress whose family secretly want her removed from influences of La Ben's determined. To teach her to fend for herself but he quickly discovers she's more than a pampered pretty face. The rebellious rancher is the Third Western romance in the Miller's of Morgan valley a spin off of Cape Pierce Successful Morgan Ranch series. The series focuses on a neighboring family with their own ranch and problems of the heart. The rebellious rancher by peers is available wherever books are sold and for more information visit Kensington Books Dot Com Valley's US rancher are.

00:30:07 - 00:35:09

Okay. Shall we get to our episodes? Let's do it with Liza and Kimmy fifty, one I date. Everybody now, we are so excited to be joined by Julie and you a of the dateable podcast. Hello thank you so much for being here. Thank you a house young. So much for having us and I my video just went away I have no idea why sorry. It's a new era of podcasting I feel. I'm so much happier. I don't have to stare myself being awkward. I swear to God every day brings a new technological thing in my life doesn't work because I'm using so much more technology so You know combat happens. Trying to adopt a ZAN attitude and just stuff a work when it works I guess. We're thrilled to have you guys. We're going to talk about all things your podcast. We're gonNA talk about dating. We're GONNA talk about maybe easing back into dating. Now that restrictions of lifted potentially we're going to talk about normal non-core in dating. We're GONNA, do it all but. We always like to to introduce our listeners to our guests by asking for a worse I eight story. Do you guys have any at once so many? My Entire Year of twenty twelve. Year, other plenty that's been the weirdest. Tinder first came out. So I think there's a little bit of a correlation. Inclusion. So I think the one that stands out to me was one guy that I was talking to that he actually lived in San? Jose? which is like a neighboring city to San Francisco where I'm based or both lesser base and he Normally. I typically have been dating people that lived in the city, but I was trying to expand my horizons of meet more people. So he had told me that he wanted to come in meet me. We haven't really had much communication before this. So I was like I was down but I was also like what if this is a bummer? This guy had a travel against our to meet me but he told me that he's going. To meet up with friends I. So I kind of felt like alleviated by that but there is still not really like a set clan even though we knew that we were meeting up. Friday night but he told me he was like on the train. You told me that he's like need a friend I for drinks in progressively kept messaging me that he liked was moving from bar to bar and his tech starts to get like more slurred. At one point I was like is this actually happening? Should I just call it because if feels like he's getting like Kinda, drunk in that eventually like right when I was having this moment of. Clarity of should I do this guy? He sends me a message with a concrete plan. It was like a pretty nice upscale bars. I'll just meet him like he already come this far. So I show. and. He is like obliterated like I have never seen someone this drunk an he literally could not stare has my boobs like his eyes were just like on my boobs and I just continued the date but I have like friends that were dining like around the corner. So I was basically just waiting for them to finish their meal and then I was like, okay, I'm GonNa. Cut Out. What's there ready? So I can just continue the night Friday night. So I stayed there and also like a pretty curious person, which is probably why do this podcast? Just kinda going with this guy was just like I feel like we have such a connection like. On like he was just like really again like I was one, it eventually got a point ahead a in an uber at anything was actually a cap at the time was so long ago but had to put him in there to get to the train station is he could not physically walk like he was just. So dot. So yeah that was a moment in the next day. He like message being liked I felt like there is a really bill connection but I think they might have butchered it. So he owned it. I you respond that response. And I must say you captured two of the biggest things that happened in verse first date stories like. High high levels of intoxication absolutely inappropriate inebriation, and then also one person being on a totally different page from the other like in terms of thinking it went okay or well it sounds like he actually understood that it wasn't great but. Did you messaging back? Did you continue the conversation? Are you like Oh, I'm good on this. I'm very much a non ghosting person. So I think I messaged him back and just was like, yeah, you kind of were He. made it clear that probably was it could happen again because honestly like out I mean it was just not the best way to meet someone also, we just didn't have much common either.

00:35:11 - 00:40:11

All of it. The end out all these years later now. I surely remember this story Julie. Every time you tell it. Feeling to be sober and sitting across from superdrug person and being like. Well, this is my problem for the next forty five minutes. What can I do? Honestly if it was right day, I probably would've left earlier in I would have gone home and just like met my friends out, let's get an hour like, why did I beat to subject myself to that but I don't know in the moment it was kind of interesting slash entertaining. So the. Total. TURTLENECK. and. Then you what about do you do you ever worse I Yes If this is like a worse dating story or one of the best I think it's one of the worst and best of my dating career. This was back in York Julie knows the story to actually told in our podcast. In New York, I met this guy on a job or something he was there doing something on the client side and? He asked me to hang out for drinks tonight. So it's like sure let's do it. So he has to hang a six PM and I got to the bar and he said. I have told seven. So I'm like awesome who have? Our time limit, and then he proceeded to tell me that I can order anything off the happy hour menu, which was a a belief five selections of wine that were fifty percent off. But he said it in a manner that was like your. He's very generous. Feel free to order anything off of this menu in particular and at about six thirty I check my time. He said to me you know this isn't a date, right? Like. Oh. No I what what is it a support group or what are. New annot new. And he said, no, this is a meeting of the minds when I met you a new that we would have some very brainy conversations. WanNa throw. As sexy. So WanNa, sleep with you now, and at seven on the Dot Ke said he needs to leave. So he left. What. What was the best part of this night was the far manager comes over after the sky leaves and he said, did I just witnessed that thing that whole thing down to just ask you for a meeting of the minds than on a day and I was like Oh hell yeah. That's what was said. So he said call up two of your best girlfriends and the whole nights on me drinks. and. That's exactly what I did we. We stayed there 'til like to destroy inking and eating and having a grand old time. That's fantastic. In the new data, the barn owner right right now we're married. No, not really I lived. He sounds like a gem. So let's Mary him or. Exact living. Or? One stay I'm he deserved it. Off. Those moments. Give me faith and humanity. A and yeah I think when you said the worst state, but it's also the best I was like, what is this going to be but that is the best version of that happening I think. Really turned around. Oh. My God. Four. Before we dive into just talking about dating for our listeners who are not familiar with their podcast Jillian. Would you share a little bit about kind of where you're in terms of dating what your relationship to dating has been in the past present future whatever you want to share that you feel like would be important context we have a lot of single listeners Yeah. Yeah just about our own personal relationship. Yeah. Right now and you know. I again, it's so cheesy but I'm Mike, what's your relationship to relationships like? Lake honestly like we've been doing this podcast for four years in throughout those four years. There's been a lot of change in both of our lives like I started off. We first started this talk task in a relationship that was like the love of my life in that it ended and from there was kind of back into the singles scene dating also navigating heartbreak at. The same time, and honestly this podcast was like totally therapeutic ABC because it was we really started the podcast about just hearing about people's stories and what we found was that no one is really alone in their stories like everyone is going to the same things and I think we're it's evolved over the over the four years where I think I have also evolved is that It's so much more than that like there's just like a change of our society right now when it comes to dating and that's going to continue like an postcode nineteen and black lives matter worlds are.

00:40:12 - 00:45:06

Constantly in flux, and there's just no bright one right way to have a relationship anymore and no run one right way to date and I think one of the things that we've learned from podcast is one that everyone's just on their own personal journey in there's the ups and downs with dating is hard the course Connie to go through it in order to get to where you want to be in. Then weird you want to be isn't necessarily one linear path like it was in the past it was Oh, you get married you have kids and that that could be your path but doesn't need your. In I think what we've learned to is just this is really like one of the benefits we all bitch about modern dating about the downsides the fails like the ghosting all that one of the benefits of it is that there's so much opportunity in so many ways to leak people that allows us to really create love lives that we want in noxious subscribe to whatever was told for us. So personally for me I think. I mean I've gone had different relationships throughout the podcast I reconnected with the my axe over quarantine to the one that I mentioned earlier like in even like width through that reconnection I had changed so much from when we first dated if he was like, wow, you're really good at the staff and I'm like yeah I've been doing doing podcasts for the last four years. So I think there's just a lot of south evolution. That was that the XC reconnected with over quarantine. Yes. But you decided okay. I mean you could go listen to data ball to hear. Had just like it's been like just I'll touch on it really quick but it's been one of those situations where there was just a lot going on in his life and I think when I was with with dating I'm like Oh you just meet someone and if two people love each other works out and what I've learned along the way is that that is not the case the times we had marked Manson senators very famous author on our is our podcast talked about how love is just not enough like there's so much other external things happening and love him be the most amazing. Thing. But it doesn't always solve all the problems and I think my ex and I really we both really wanted to make it work. But just like ultimately, we've tried so many times in this like quarantine time was kind of like that. Okay. We are doing this or were not like we're getting married like we're going on the path to getting married over not doing this because we can't keep doing the Atkins for us. So I think quarantine was great for us because it was a way that we should like air it all out in a way that was getting the physical mixed in. Yeah No, that's that's so interesting and then you a you're in a relationship. Correct. Yes. I am but this whole evolution of our podcast has been like a relationship in itself I think in the beginning with any relationship, it's all about storytelling. You're trying to catch up about each other's lives and just trying to entertain each other and I was saying earlier seasons for that, and then it became like group therapy mets when you get deeper into a relationship where you're like trying to be vulnerable and divulge a lot of information but at. Our current stage at our podcast, which is also my current stage in my relationship is kind of like looking at the consequences of our actions and then how that what are the sociological implications of that, and that's just a very Saiga, scientific or technical way of saying like what the fuck are we doing like why are we doing the things that we're doing and how do we unravel some of these limiting beliefs that we have and it's so? To everything that's going on the world right now because if you think about like what you, what you girls have talked about on your podcast to is it's not just about dating spans so much wider than that. It goes into every aspect of your life and how you grow how you were raised how your mindset has been A. You know how you've been conditioned to think certain things and now time to question why why, why, why do we do the things we do? I think also like we're you and I are both in our mid to late thirties. So we kind of straddle like this like old school way of thinking with new school way of thinking. So we're elder millennials and I think like one of the challenges like brought up is like unraveling in figuring out like what tradition serve you in what rules dolt right like, why are we dating in certain ways? Is that just because we we should do it. Our parents have that expectation society has that expertise. was like, what do we actually? Yeah. I. Really Love When you spoke about that recently on your podcast, like do you actually want a relationship which we've tried to kind of UNPACK for listeners to? What do you thinking over someone? WHO's not sure if they WANNA relationship like if you you can each have a different piece of advice.

00:45:06 - 00:50:13

But what's the biggest indicator you may be don't actually want one or you just want one for kind of a societal reason. I mean I, think it fair forcing yourself. You feel like you genuinely I think you know when you wanNA relationship when you want to be meeting people like you want to be sharing your life with someone if you're just going through the motions like you're swiping because you have to, you're going on dates because you feel like you have to I think that's a or if you're canceling dates last minute because you'd rather go out with your girlfriends or guy friends whatever like I think that is a real telltale sign. There were years that I thought I wanted a relationship and I remember my best friend being like Sure you OUGHTA relationship because your actions like don't really follow suit like I was hooking up with a guy friend of mine that I thought like was the one yet he's telling me that he did not want a relationship in any form. So anyone that wanted her relationship would be like this is a viable part year. Yeah. I just. Sorry to interrupt and be forever. When you're in that we're was is that I was in this mindset of like I, must win over like I must like make work in I think when you're in that mindset in when it's quick from ego versus Lake my last relationship I mentioned like even though we didn't end up working out like we both always just wanted the best for each other like we just cared and loved about loved each other so much and I think that's when you know it's a relationship versus like you're going through the motions. Yeah true. I think as about finding just look at the evidence you can say one thing, but then look at your actions and then Really Journal your actions that you've been doing. If you say you want relationship, are you actually communicating that on when you go on dates? Where are you the one? That's like no I'm the cool chick I. Don't need a relationship. You know we can keep things casual for now, which is well a lot of people do because they're so afraid of wasting what they want, and then also like to your actions really match what you say you're trying to put out there. If you say, you want a relationship, are you still? Putting out these actions that you want something casual or that you're frayed or that you don't actually know what a good relationship looks like. It's just you just have to look at the evidence in in yourself and you'll know. Totally, I also think that that doing that work and self examination can show you that. Also maybe you if you think you want a relationship. If you want it for three reasons like enrich and fulfill your life versus like Nymex Age and I would like my parents to stop worrying about if we'll ever get married you know there's a lot of like I'm all was have talked about a lot of bullshit about like why we should all be in relationships and how where like worthless witches if we're not. Yeah. It's hard to parse those things. It's like items still struggle with it. I think a lot of it shows up in the way you talk to like I totally agree it's the actions, but we had a guest on our show saying that like are you constantly complaining that you're single because of you're saying that you're emphasizing the single piece you're not emphasizing were relationship piece and I think like cheer point lies like one of the things that I remember like when I said I always wanted a relationship I was by number. One thing was a guy that we. Get along well with my friends but I go out with and bring him along and do the stuff in looking back on that that not a recipient of relationship like I'm looking for someone to be the single life stage with me and I think when your priorities shift to being like I want to be with this person because I enjoy spending so much time with them. That's when there is a difference of what you're actually looking for. Completely I was talking to my friend, the other night who has been single for awhile and like vary all about it and. She was saying she was like I just WanNa be in love right now I want to and I think that's such a great thing of how it should feel yes she was thrill like thriving in her single life for awhile and she was like all of a sudden I was like, Oh i WanNa fall in love with someone I wanNa love them so much like that's like yeah, I think that's such A. Exactly what you're saying like if it's The the you can listen to those impulses and hear some truths. Ayman. Backtrack a little bit. Can you talk to us a little bit about like what the inspiration was to start your podcast? it was not a dating experiment but. If definitely was this, we had a meeting of the minds I. Think we Julian I met through a former company that you'll used to run at, which was facilitating in real life connections over Brunch, and we met at one of her brunches and we saw each other a few other times after that, and every time we talk about our dating lives so will back story is I.

00:50:13 - 00:55:03

I was brand new to San Francisco never lived in San Francisco as an adult and Julie had been San Francisco for most of her adult life. So she only known dating. Through San Francisco Lens and I had no idea what I was getting myself into and at that time things were changing so much in modern dating I couldn't keep up and I was a former dating coach. I couldn't even keep up I actually quit coaching after coming to San Francisco because I was like I know what the Hell's going on here as Juliet I decided that we really should put our perspectives and share these stories in an audio format just purely for entertainment in the beginning and also just for us to parse outright what exactly what's going on. How how would you guys categorize in Francisco dating guy feel like I don't know. I don't there's not a stereotype that jumps to my mind with San Francisco dating. John Devine. What we I that I wanna hear what your stereotype is. Yeah. I know I want to hear you. Tell Deborah live there. This is just like now I'm in La and like friends who have lived there I'm just I'm like I feel like there's like hiking dates with tech Bros. in Patagonia like that. and. They're really into like their fancy apartment like I I have that is just like the Silicon Valley stereotypes though I'm embarrassed but. I feel like I. Don't know. We do get listeners writing about San Francisco as though it's Better Than New, York and La, but also difficult in some ways. So actually I'm taking it back a little bit. Me Expert in the helmet, it's funny is when we first started this is about dating San Francisco I feel like we've pivoted so much over the years and just. Pivot we've evolved over the years and I think it was that I have been in San Francisco for ten years. So I originally from Boston but most of my adult. Life has really been in San Francisco, and like you mentioned she's new here and initially we thought it was a very unique seen compared to other places in the country and I think it is in some ways I think isn't an others I think why it's unique is that things tend to happen here. First of all, the dating apps are kind of incubated. You're like technology is a or front of everything we do. Hence, your stereotype here. I. Think. There's So there is that stereotype. Then there's also stereo type of like you know like summer of love just like a rights I like we've always been kind of like this non cultural warm like we're kind of like the counter capital culture of the war of the worlds like San Francisco people like do what they WanNa do and I think we've challenged a lot of traditional relationships I a Pollyanna, an open relationships while they're visible other places like I know in New, York and La like they're definitely growing and even like we've heard of just like place in the south where you would never. Expected. It's definitely happening in growing that in San Francisco is very out in the open in like except we went to like a sex party that this group basically community for people that are in monogamous relationships they like have these communities that allow people to come together and meet each other and it's on facebook group. So it's like pretty public in a way like it's a private group, but that's pretty out there I think a lot of other cultures in the United States might be a little more behind closed doors. You know what I mean. So I can't Gedaref is that but. Other side of it is the same problems happened everywhere like I. Think we quickly realized that this was not like just San Francisco like are experiencing the same things. A lot of it's just his gender roles are changing or technology now dating apps like used to be like a thing I and s APP and now it's everywhere like that's the primary way to meet people. So it's there are some differences, but there's a lot of similarities. It's Everywhere where you you think are the stereotypes of dating in that city it's just the same thing with a different faith. So the tech Bro with the Patagonia vest. Hiking in San Francisco that date definitely exists is the same as the. La dater. Who's hiking Runyon Canyon sharing their screenplays and the New Yorker Hiking on the high line in their Canada goose. Right it's the same date just with a different packages. But what we experience, it's all the same like the same complaints are in every city and that's the problem with dating.

00:55:03 - 01:00:01

Is that people think it's their city it's so not it's the. Way. Yeah and and men. No I'm just kidding. But. No. But I think that it's true. There are we had some expert on who basically you know we were asked who had lived in a lot of cities and we asked what the most difficult to date, which city was the most difficult to date in and she was like everyone thinks they're said is the most default Dayton and I think about it all the time because it's true it's just know dating's really hard and people some people weren't raised well, and some people are horrible communicators and some people just were never. Aren't confident in themselves, not even nefarious flea or anything like that Allies in Kimmy you to have a global audience to him. You have listeners from the world. You've probably seem that it's not even just a US spread. All over the world yet such. That's a good reminder. Yeah. When we get emails from Mike Sweden are exacerbating and your name here we're like, wow, this is. Interesting those there I think the people will always say like we will automatically San. Francisco that are trying to pack their bags. A few of them actually just got stopped because of Kobe nineteen but we're ready to move across the country to be with war women so they like the quantity. And it's interesting the whole ratios and I'm sure like you guys at I mean Liza you're currently there but like as living in New York, you'd shirt you've experienced this too and I do think there's some like some significance to it like I went to a college that was seventy percent women and it definitely changed the dating dynamics I'm not gonNA say that it didn't but I also think that it doesn't necessarily solve it just by. Going somewhere that's more like, for example, tender that's a it's called nickname men ver- right. But there is actually studies that Denver is like one of the worst places date because men and women are so separated like men put very little effort into light dating whatsoever. So it's not always about the numbers that doesn't tell the whole story like in San Francisco, there's more men than women, but there's a lot of gay man there's a lot of. Young tech grows that have moved here that are in there like early twenties and there's a lot of single women in like they're made to late thirties just not a match, right so it's not always about numbers completely and I feel like New York has such a the exact opposite reputation of just like having this is fully just sex in the city nonsense downloaded into our brains but just that it's filled with single women and there's no single men and while you do feel that sometimes I also think. I happen to think New York's a great city data and because almost everybody I know who has woken up and ben like okay. I'm ready to take dating seriously has been able to meet so many people and mostly find someone who they at least can like and connect with and have any length of relationship with any most people I know who have sat down like this is my moment I'm going to do it have found somebody that they like enough to date for a couple of months at least. I doubt means there's plenty of single men in you just pointed it's the mindset is so the mindset lake you can be there but if you're not changing in working on yourself, then it doesn't really matter where you're at. Yeah Yeah how do you both think the mind? How like how can people thinking about dating again as things open up? How can they keep like this new mindset in mind because I feel like? This country is going through a massive change that I hope you know really creates a drive, some change of course with co bed and being quarantined but I also think with black lives matter and the recent events in this country like just think people's mindsets are going to be shifting in lots of ways. I'm just curious what you how you think the dating minds that might shift. You don't have to exactly correlate them because they know that's weird ask but I just feel like we're all valuing different things. So if you had any thoughts. Yeah I think there was a A Kinsey Institute studied that was put out from conducted a study of diverse range of adults from eighteen to eighty one. So very diverse and they found that the majority of the people who've entered into some sort of relationship or try to date during Cova? Are Experiencing war open-mindedness. So they're open to trying new things that could just be finding virtual pleasure like sexting and virtual sex parties are really hot right now because it's kind of like what what's your alternative and also six and ten people have said that they've talked to someone outside of their usual hype, which I think is absolutely fantastic. So I, think one way to think about how these.

01:00:02 - 01:05:11

Were what our learnings can last even postcode is this open-mindedness and how we approach our perspective a life in general I think a lot of people have implemented this open-mindedness and for for them to see the results of that because I think people are getting. Were interesting matches or having more interesting conversations they'll see that because the benefits proof that open mindedness can yield better benefits I. Think they'll keep it up you've been postponed and I think especially with black lives matter. It's made us all reevaluate some of these like constructs and things that we've subconsciously felt like I, know for myself. I'm back on APPS after this break up I had to go in it'd be like. What do I even have on preferences like race because, there's still APPs that do racial preferences in a like shock of opening enough to everyone right and just like letting it be. So I think this openness is really going to start to trickle down like you I was just saying and I think also especially during quarantine a lot of us have had a lot of time to reflect because we've had just downtime If we been healthy throughout the whole thing, and then also like I think some of US might come out and say, Yep, a relationship actually isn't what I wanted like navy eye was thriving in being single living alone and loving it or I'm with roommates super happy in. That's great. If that's kind of what you team with, maybe you might not be as actively pursuing dating apps and some of the things that. He wants work because you're clear on your intentions, but then I, think there's a lot of us have realized that like life is short like love really is the most important thing in life in your relationships really do matter and I think that's going to cause people. There's more relationship minded or maybe people that were on the edge to kind of refocus some priorities and then really start to date a little more intentionally. No I could see that intentional I hope everything everyone's a bit kinder more open, minded more intentional with dating. Or just I guess Take care of each other as dating goes back to some new normal. Well I also think it's going to be hard to have you know so much of your initial conversations at dating is so surface level and that's fine you know I don't advocate for being sitting down at a bar texting on ABC chatting and being like so how what's your relationship with your mother? You know like? Bands, but I also think that a lot of people are more emotionally available right now because there's all this crazy shit happening in the world and I know that like every time I talk to any friend the first thing I say is like, how are you? How are you doing not just like, hey, how's it going but laying how're you doing as a human right now this the end I think it's hard not to get to a deeper place or maybe not a deep ways We're vulnerable place earlier right now because you have to talk about the world, it's not. Just did a phone date the other last week and we spent like the whole time talking about like black lives matter is obviously. So present at the end of the day I was like, you know I, mean, this was I I'm phone. We're we're progressing to video this week. So you know. Trying to take baby steps but I like that I. think that's actually that's actually a benefit of taking like a little more time to get to know people when you actually do show up, meet nearly excited about it or you've saved yourself time but I, we'll just back to the conversation is we did spend a lot of time to talk about current state of the world at the end when I got off the call. That go well or did not go well because I don't really know like it wasn't like the traditional date and I'm like, okay like I've learned so much about this person what their values are like net, much more important than like we're they go what bars they go to what sports they watch a you really think about pat ability launcher. I really think we're almost in our own experiment of the bachelor or Bachelorette where were kind of like in this In this other universe where we have no other distractions, we're really trying to get to know like that one bachelor that we be only bachelor that we you know that we can talk to. But the other kind of psychological impact on virtual dating is video dating and how it's affecting the way we see ourselves. So I know in your corner episode, you talked about putting a sticky over your faith because sometimes you do video days, you only look at yourself but what psychologists have found super interesting is that when you see yourself on a video call, you see yourself reflected back at you and you know when you're. 'cause you 'cause you know you see in your eyes you see in your own. In your own fricken reflection. So I think what's happening with virtual dating is people are starting to to tear down the walls and this is not the way I want to present myself on Day all those other times was blessing day or trying to trying to give this perception myself that.

01:05:11 - 01:10:16

So not me I'm letting that go 'cause I'm now seeing the true south. I'm sort of mind blown. Yeah. It could be a good thing to have to separate yourself wanting to date like for every single. Dated every. I agree I. I think it's very distracting because yes you are focusing on yourself quite a bit but there is something to be said about just accepting the person you see reflected back in Kenya live with that person on screen like are you happy with what you see talking and the way she's she's reacting and presenting herself I mean I think video dates are very challenging but that being said I think, I'm happy that they're. Finally having their moment like we've been talking about video dates for years in so many apps have been trying to make video dates happen like we actually had an APP that we did experiment with like three years ago. That's out of business because video did not video dating did not take off but now it's definitely having their moment like who would have thought zoom would be like solve it but it's happening and I think though it's It was at the beginning of quarantine. Everyone was all about doing the video dates in that it really died off real fast and I think what ended up happening was people got discouraged because they're like, when am I actually GonNa beat person this feels like a gigantic waste of time not to mention there's so many emotions that were happening. It's it's hard to meet New People that time but I think now that we're like going into this new normal or whatever we're calling it, I don't know high sailboat that word but we're going there. I the whatever it's happening I think video dating could actually be really great for us because it can like I mentioned a little earlier. For me the best dates I've had have been the ones that I've been excited to go to not the ones that I feel like forcing myself to go to and like there was a period that I literally wouldn't even put someone's name in my phone because unlike the odds of me actually seeing this person again like I'm not going to actually even take that two seconds to put their name in because I most likely will never talk to them. Again, that is a terrible mindset going into A. Date now try to really put their name like I last by ten like this is someone that excited reach and I think by having the video dates, I it will let us do that filtering that we often say we'll do but we don't because like well, we just didn't meet in person and see and I think it will just let us be a lot more focused while also giving us the options, which is a benefit of dating APPS, but not letting us get bogged down in those options. Totally, yeah I. Mean we do phone interviews before any job recalls I think it's the same it's like it does also if you Do want to be intentional about dating and is a lot of time and a lot of energy. If you can get fatigue, you can get worn out I. think it's a good way to just. Turn the dial down on that a little bit. In, terms of technicalities of dates. How do you both see like? Dates themselves evolving? We were like, wow, like meeting at a crowded bar and sitting next to each other on schools feels like a thing of. The past or the distant future. I think people are going to get really creative. I was reading some stories about about people doing social distancing picnics, social distance to jogs it just something about meeting up in person but still keeping that social distance end slowly intriguing her way closer and closer with each day. I really do think that is the new way of dating is is when you're mortality is at stake and when you're thinking about the health of yourself and others that's that's a very powerful consequence of what you're doing. So I think everyone will think twice before meeting up with someone in person if a cova nineteen has ruined fuck boys completely because he can't just. Do the bare minimum anymore like you have to put an effort like there was this meme on I think that was circulating twitter twitter posts that was like, Hey. I can't just get the hey text review anymore when there's a guy like serenading over zoom like planning that picnic in, it's really requiring people to step it up a bit and I think also assure fire way to see someone's intentions like what we're supposed to. New Quarantine has been lifted a lot of places but Corona virus has not gone away like there is still this in the air like it's still happening. We're still supposed to be socially distancing if you get someone on a dating apps being like, let's hook up or like detail. That is like a huge red flag that you can identify immediately and I think this is going to really let the cream of the crop rise up in the people that are intentional do it and probably due dates do more sober dates like waste obviously do like drinks to go at least separate spot but other cities but we can.

01:10:17 - 01:15:12

During to go, which has been nice but you're not, you're probably not going to be like drinking as much when you have to grab a couple of drinks and bring them to a park for example, you're not going to be like binge drinking the way that we did date. So I think it will also bring more clarity in intention like you as had this term like sober I kissed the wage like really gauge. Chemistry and it's been so hard for that to actually go into practice is were never so brome deeds, but maybe now will be. Yeah and you have to really like someone to. Not really like, but really you have to have some trust in someone to go to their house and put your mouth on their mouth because you have to be able to say like, Hey, have you been being careful if you're talking about like you know, are we gonNA consciously take this risk together? Is it are we at that stage which I know as a human who you know? Sorry Mom went home with some gentlemen. Last names I know that's not on your mind you know. I. A the one thing though is like this is that happened to me I think people need to be careful for is false intimacy that comes from video dates like I went on a date. This was right before corona virus like really started to hit and we had done like a couple phone calls never actually video in by the time we actually met he was like. Oh. This is like our third date and I'm like, no, no, it's not and he had this expectation that we were gonNA go home together and I'm like wait we are not on the same page at all. So I think there is some of that that comes in in light also being mindful of things like I actually said this to you a and I'm so glad I didn't happen because I did feel like I built up. So edge report with this guy that I'm like. Would actually be safer for me to go like have him come over than to go to a bar this was like right when the cusp of everything shutting down but in no mood like no world's would I ever just invite a stranger a home so I think it's like especially with J. dates that might spillover in. There's no where you go. You might start to like progress things a little faster than you would have been normal world. So I think that's something to watch out for. That's interesting. The like one person's home especially, if they live alone becomes a lot safer than a bar and then. This. Is kind of a pivot, but I'm curious if there's like what I don't even know our answer to this at a little unfair. But is there a really difficult dating question? You get a law that is just kind of like the hardest question you get the one you like. Feel like is the most difficult to answer. ooh. Look vacuuming. Because I was trying to think of it like I want to ask you but I also want into figure it out from our perspective so I can try to brainstorm if you think about it. I can answer the easiest when we get I shower. I think any time someone goes into extreme details about feeling that's happening in their life with another person. Always the answer is have you talked to them I like before you replied to have us give it way in because we don't really know what the other person is thinking. This is only your perspective in so many times that initial conversation has not happened. So I think before you start asking external people municipal relationship that means we're reading to each other to have those conversations I. so I I kind of pivoted your question now a final. Question Real. A little extra you think. Well I think there are a lot of tough questions we've gotten throughout the years. One of them is always this at what point do you give up trying and and were say that we need to try harder in a relationship right I. think a lot of relationships come to that point while shall we do something more and fight for each other? War, or are we just not compatible what is that breaking point and then the other question we also get the flip side because we do have a lot of listeners who don't have much relationship experience. So it's similar to what we talked about earlier. How do I know I wanNA relationship and once again to win how can I be good at it? In this goes into just further education. You know like this is something we don't ever learn in college or in school are parents don't teach us how to have a relationships and that's why our podcasts are so important just to share these perspectives of learnings for for people who've never done relationships before yeah. I think the ones that have multiple ways of answering the question like there's not that clear cut pass in that really comes down to it needs need to reflect on the full story here I think there are certain scenarios I one hundred percent resonate even for myself what you just said you as like when do you know went? Key trying versus not in.

01:15:12 - 01:19:51

There's like a bunch of different permutations of the question of I could go this way or this way in a lot of that really comes down to your God in you knowing the whole story in you know like it's people have different scenarios on this. There's the sliding doors. I don't know if you have seen that movie that like no matter what pack you take you'll end up in the same place or whatever path you take is the right choice for you in really no one knows including yourself choices right or not like sometimes it just comes down to like a gut instinct in how you're feeling. Like following one got feels like the most important thing in dating broadly to me on in. Yeah. That intuition. So now you have to answer but. I agree. I think like the hardest question for us as well would be kind of that. How do I know if I should continue on and this just in the Mary similar way? That's early on in the date. or in the dating or interrelationship but another hard one we get just because I think you probably comes from our standpoint is at being kimmy went on dates and it worked for her which is because of me and where I was at in my life I think another hard question we get or one just like people are feeling really hopeless because of maybe the location they're in or the response that they're getting on apps and it's like it's so heartbreaking because I, it's kind of relates to do actually on relationship or not but there are definitely amazing listeners of our podcast who have gone on all these dates and really put in the effort and. That's that's a tough question in a different way. Yeah. I also think the hardest question we ever got I think the hardest. One of our listeners who I think this still is the sweetest purist email. We've ever received was a new relationship and felt like it was going well but wrote to us and said that. They have never been in love before and they're not really quite sure what it feels like and what does it feel like? They know if they're in love and I like. To answer that question was. So we talked about it for twenty minutes and I was like I don't even know if any of the words I said just meant anything. That's true. It's like you can't put that into words. Yeah. Love is such a hard thing. It's like a feeling. There's to explain that into words. Yeah. How interesting but. That's A. That's a beautiful question. Fun and Nice to talk about I'm like a grouchy pessimist, a lot of the time. So it made me I was. Axing Poetic about love and whatever. But? Yeah, that's Randomly remember it that Oh we were talking i. was like that was hard. We are with that. I'm with you on that. That's a pretty hard question and that no, we shouldn't take. More of your time, leave you all with that tough question tells the answer. Me With? Three. Character I mean everyone has their own definition. So yeah, we can't even start to go through right like. But thank you guys so so much for joining us on. Tell everyone where they can find you. Pretty much on all the major podcast platforms, apple podcasts, spotify stitcher radio you know pretty much anything everywhere. So is under Gable podcast, and then you can also find us at dateable podcast on instagram in the dateable PODCASTS DOT com. Muscling GonNa link all Jinx Kimmy. Check it out check out the database podcast and thank you so much. Thank you for having us on the show. Some Fun But dateable podcast is part of the FROLIC podcast network. Five more podcast. You'll love at frolic dot media slash podcast want to continue the conversation I. Follow us on Instagram facebook and twitter with the handle at dateable podcasts. Tag US in any post with a Hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts. Then head over to our website dateable podcasts, dot com there you'll find all. The episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium why series where we dissect analyze offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums, Roseau downloadable for free on spotify apple podcast, Google, play overcast stitcher radio, and other podcasts platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us. So don't forget to leave as review and most importantly remember to stay dateable.