BONUS: Answering your Dating Questions! w/ Katie Sturino of Boob Sweat & Megababe

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You also hear from my co host and producer Julie Kraft chick as we explore this crazy dateable world. Hi Friends, welcome to another episode of the day will podcast, just a reminder we're in the off season, but it does not mean we pause the content. It just means we bring you a little bit more about us. That's a good thing. I hope that's a good thing. Yes about us, but also about dating questions, which is really what everyone is here for, right? I hope so. I really, really hope so. I was talking to a few new married friends and they asked me when they heard about the podcast they said, well, obviously it's only single people that listen to it. And I know we've talked about it on the show, but we definitely have some married lurkers who also listen to the podcast quite frequently. And once I told them the topics, they both started downloading and listening to episodes because both of them have been together since college, so they've never done the dating app scene. They've never done the dating around scene. And I guess these topics are so fascinating to them that they're listening to them on their own. Yeah, and I mean, I would also argue there's a lot of topics we cover that would be applicable at all stages of relationships. I'll give a shout out to my sister in law. I know she's an avid date of listener. And you know, I think obviously she was drawn to it to support, but you know, she's told me before that a lot of them even help someone that's been married a couple years at this point. So I think there's something for everyone. Clearly some topics are more applicable than others, depending on your stage of life and relationship status, but I really do believe there's something for everyone here too. Everyone loves talking about dating and love and relationships. It's just a fascinating topic, and that's why we try to be as inclusive as possible in our content because you never stop dating, even if you're married, you don't stop dating your partner either. And you shouldn't. If you do, that's when things sometimes go to shit, right? Yes, yes. And it's been a fun couple of weeks. I was laid off officially last Wednesday. I guess by the time this comes out, be two weeks. I've never been laid off officially like this before. I've been phased out of contract positions, but not laid off and 35% of the company was laid off, which really heavily affected my department. So 80% of my department is gone. Which is insane. But then now all the, that's all you see in the news. This company laying off X percent, that company laying off X percent. Part of this kind of reminds me of dating, I know, we're trying to think of ways to relate this back to dating, but the way we normalize the way companies treat employees is like the way we normalize bad dating behavior. We think people are disposable. And we talk about them in numbers. You know, 35% of people are laid off, not the moms or the people who newly moved to a city or the people who are caring for who someone ill and their family and it's not that there's no humanity. It's just a number. It's all business, right? I mean, I've definitely been through layoffs before, some cases where I've been laid off in other cases where I've survived the layoff.

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And I think what I hate about layoffs and I know it's always nothing personal, a lot of the times it has to do with the company health. But what it is is it's so out of nowhere. I think when you're on the road to getting fired, usually you have some warning, right? That you need to pick it up a little improve your performance, but I think layoffs can really just catch you off guard. I remember when I got laid off from a startup, I don't know, this was years ago at this point. I just remember them being like super awkward. And then just telling me to come to the conference room. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'm getting laid off. It just was so weird the whole experience. And I think we talked about this. You heard a rumor ahead of time so you kind of knew it was coming, but it wasn't that much notice. And I do think about all the people that, you know, pour their heart and soul into work. And don't do it. You know, uproot. Uproot your family, like uproot, your life basically for a job. And it's a shame because oftentimes your job description will be back up in a second or just nonexistent anymore and no one seems to care. Like you were said, you're just a number to everyone, not a person. Yeah, I mean, these companies are just worried about the bottom line. So whatever they can do to show profitability, they'll do it at the expense of people. But when you are a growing company and you're spending money like there is no end or limit, you feel like you're the golden child, right? You feel like, oh yeah, with this unicorn company, we're spending money. There's no budget. I almost feel like that is a sign of bad things to come. Yeah, I've been pondering this. For a little bit. And you know, I think some of it relates to companies, but also it relates to relationships too. When do you uproot your life? And on one side, you could argue that, you know, let's say you have this great job opportunity. That's in a different city. Then you could say, well, part of my life is work, and I want to get that opportunity, and that's a big aspect of me. Let's say you decide to uproot your life for someone you recently started dating or they had a move somewhere or you had to go to a certain location to be with someone. What point is it adapting your life versus uprooting your life? I think that's a very good question. And for some people, I think it just depends on what your priorities are. But I always ask the question, what matters when you're on your deathbed? What matters? Does it matter that company that you sacrificed your life for and you moved forward? Are you going to be talking about that company? Or are you going to be talking about the person that maybe you moved your life for? You took a risk things didn't work out, but it taught you many lessons. I still think human connection is worth the risk, but companies, it's never worth the risk. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I obviously think that I value relationships and all of that. But I don't know if it, it depends again, this is so nuanced, obviously. How long have you been with this person? How reciprocal are the feelings? How well do you know them? These are all factors, but I think completely changing your lifestyle. And if you're happy in your life or someone else, to me, is even arguable if that is the right call, or is it better to find someone that fits in with your lifestyle? I mean, I can see it both ways, so it's something that's kind of been on my mind of what is the right path and maybe there is no right path. It's just specific to you and how you view life and what's important. I just would hate to ask a question, what if, later down the line? Yeah. I mean, remember when you're dating that guy in the UK and you definitely thought about visiting at least and exploring the options, it's worth exploring. Maybe it's not uprooting, but I think human connection is worth always worth further exploration. I know, I think about that though, but for whatever reason, even in that situation, I never ended up doing it. I was still resistant to changing my entire life and moving it to another country. And you could argue that, yeah, that didn't work out because I didn't do that, but now I found someone that's actually much better fit for me. Always, you know? Yeah, and that's the thing with life, right? Because it's like, did I make the right decision? Is this thing good that I'm in? Right. And it's very subjective because the good thing could bring you a bad thing in the bathroom could bring you a good thing. Exactly. The only way to look at it is do I have regrets and did I try my best? And I think too, like if you move to a different city for work and you felt like, okay, I'm ready to explore somewhere else and this is something I want to do, even if the job doesn't work out. It could be a really great thing. Totally. So I don't think it's like an either or in any way. And there's so many aspects and variables at all of these. But it does make you question, especially when people are so disposable in today's world, whether that's in companies or in modern dating, to make huge shifts for other people, but then if you don't do that, that doesn't get you anywhere either.

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It's very chicken and egg, I think. It's such a bubble that people live in when you're at a company because you start caring about the things that really don't matter in life. I had these coworkers that were just so hung up on their titles. When am I going to get this senior title? When am I going to get this director title? And equivalently in dating same. It's like when are we going to DTR and have call each other boyfriend or girlfriend and show that commitment to other people through labeling, but when you zoom out, you see, well, does this really matter ultimately? Does this label or this title really affect my human happiness probably not, but if I can make the best of the situation or the best of this relationship, that's probably more of a contributing factor to my happiness, right? And that's why I think it's so important to be well rounded and not put your value only on work or only on relationships because for a while I started my career. I worked at Yahoo for 8 years. Yeah. Some of our listeners might be like, what the fuck is Yahoo? But it used to be. It used to be the golden child. It used to be the number one site on the Internet. Even above Google, if you could believe it, I saw a chart recently and Facebook. All of them. But anyways, I feel like for a long time, I had my identity, Yahoo is part of the identity. So I feel like if I got laid off under that circumstance, it would hurt so much more than if I'll just use my day job for instance. I'm a designer. It's sort of like being tied to a company because then you can go somewhere else and do that work. And I think especially with you too, it's like you have the podcast, you have other on screen work that you do. Exactly, the more you can diversify. And I think too in relationships, again, not saying that you shouldn't give your all to your partner, but when you make your partner your entire world and you give up things that make you whole like your friendships and hobbies and whatever it may be, that's when if you do break up, it stings that much harder because you've lost yourself in the process. Yes, you've lost your entire identity. I think we cover this in this episode with Katie's story. I think because she's also talking about just her shifts in identity through previous previous marriage and then this current marriage. Yeah, and you know, for anyone that missed the episode, we did with her on our podcast. It was called taming your inner critic. And we might have gone into that there or two and more depth. She definitely talked about a relationship won't save you. If you think that the key to happiness is a relationship, then that's not correct. And also, you know, how she started this entire mega babe company after her divorce. So it kind of goes back to the theme that we were talking about is there can be even in the worst of outcomes. There actually can be pushing you in the direction that's better for you. And we love being guests on other people's podcasts. So when Katie approached us, to be on her podcast boob sweat, we were super excited because we actually had followed Katie and seen her Instagram. She does this really. I would say, she's like a pretty big body positivity influencer. And I love that she does how I wear it versus how some celeb wears it and it's really showing that you can make any style work for you. So I think she does a lot of really inspirational content even outside of boob sweat, but obviously boob sweat too. And they were so kind to send us their products because she is the founder of mega babe, which is a beauty supply company. So many people probably know of this brand. Yeah, I mean, I freaking love these products. Like when I was in Austin, I decided to bring them all with me. One because they were the perfect travel size, but I also didn't realize, especially in hot weather, how handy they would be. Deodorant wipes, I feel like that's genius, especially at hot weather. Yeah, the shower wipes are really good. I love the lettuce clarifying. Mask, it's a butt mask. Maybe TMI, but I work out a lot and I sweat and I'm in my spandex. And it just feels good to clarify the bugs because that's also skin, you know, if we're clarifying our faces, we should also be paying some attention to our butts. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, it's funny because I feel like I got different products that you, but we both love them in different ways. Oh, you didn't get the you didn't get to get that one. Okay, yeah, we're mixing it up. Definitely give boob sweat a follow. Katie's podcast, but also they were kind enough to give a code out boob sweat 15 for 15% off your order. At the mega babe website.

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Yep, mega B beauty dot com and we'll link that in our show notes as well. Fantastic. Okay, so announcements this week at dateable podcasts. You can follow us. On Instagram, you can submit your brunch talk questions. We love getting them sent to us because that's how we really know we're doing work that benefits you all by answering what's top of mind. So send them to hello a dateable podcast dot com. DMS on Instagram. Anyway, you can get those questions over. And you can also find us on love in the time of Corona or datable podcast Facebook group. So hope to see you there and definitely share this with a friend. Everyone could use help with their dating questions and also go like and follow boob sweat. It's a great podcast and check it out. So even in the off season, y'all, we still do the brunch talk every releases every Sunday. We answer your burning to dating questions. So definitely check that out because we don't pause on those. Nope, we do not pause on brunch every Sunday or Saturday if we release it early by accident. I think that's it for announcement. So let's hear from our sponsors. Okay, let's get into this episode. It's time to answer more of your questions with UA and Julie of the data will podcast. They're active data is turned into sociologists on a mission to understand why we date the way we do. Through talking to thousands of data and world renowned experts, they're here to help you create the love life you've always wanted. Let's get into this interview. I'm going to say right off the bat, so you're dating on the West Coast. We have to acknowledge immediately that dating in Los Angeles and San Francisco is easier than dating in New York. It's an aggressive aggressive way to start this podcast. And I love that. Yes. But I just, when you told me you're both in California, I was like, listen, I swiped Jen San Francisco. I swiped in LA. It's like, it's just different. But why would you say easier? I'm curious to hear why. Well, in San Francisco specifically, I found that it was just man after man after man after man, just with a beard looking to go outside. I was like, this is like, this is easy. And then in LA where I thought I would have a really hard time dating 'cause I feel like people in Los Angeles just are insane that are insane. And I felt like I feel like I would have a really hard time dating. However, I matched with so many dates during my single weeks in LA. I don't know. Single weeks, I love it. Short amount of time. Yeah, because I was coming back and forth from New York for work and I just, I couldn't believe my couldn't believe my Los Angeles lock. So this is just to say, I don't know if either of you have ever dated in New York if you had something to say about the different, or if it sucks everywhere. A lot. So much to say. That's a product of the apps and I'll leave it to Julie to talk about her experiment where she dated around the U.S. and saw the results, but basically when your new fresh yeah, fresh meat in a city, you're going to get all the matches. That's how the algorithm works. So people have this misconception that when they go to a new city, it's just so much easier because they're seeing a lot more matches. It's not actually the case because if you actually live there, those matches would eventually dwindle and then you start seeing the same people over and over again. But coming from this point of view as a woman who has dated in New York, a day to New York for 7 years, then I moved to San Francisco, then LA, so all three cities are hitting it all. Okay. I think dating is dating is challenging everywhere you go. Always going to be something there that's not going to go smoothly, but whether is on our side on the West Coast, so you do have more people. I guess eager to go out all the time because you can. Yeah. You can go out all the time. That's true. Psyched to caveat my data around the country. This was done virtually during COVID. So I actually didn't leave my house ever. But I did. I did change my location on hinge, got it, because you can adjust that and it's not geo based in the sense that it would pick up. Oh, really? Yeah, you can adjust it to anywhere you want to go. Okay. So I did an experiment because I was curious because it's interesting. UA and I started our podcast because we thought do you think in San Francisco is so wild.

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At the start of it. And what we learned quickly was that it was basically the same things going down everywhere just with variation. Wow. So basically back to what you always say that everyone thinks their city is the most difficult place to date. That is a universal truth we've learned that no matter where you are, people always assume where they are is the most difficult. And I think there's a few factors. One is the app dynamics that UA alluded to that. You are fresh meat. So you get put in front of more people to begin with. But I think a big piece of it is just ourselves and our own comfort we fall into. When we're in new cities, we have this vacation mentality and we're curious, we're exploratory. We want to try new things and that's really important to be successful in dating and in our hometowns. We get complacent. Okay, well now I'll take my, I'll take my aggressive comments back and say, I guess you probably know better. And it sounds like you have some data and science behind you to back it up. Yeah, I'll take that. That sounds fair. I mean, the one thing I will give you to your point though, there is some truth of ratios, right, of numbers. And it does change the dynamics. I truly believe it is the individual because we can all point to times in people in our lives that we know are still making it work despite the off dynamics. But I know I went to college and it was 70 30 women to men. Where was that? Boston University. So on the east coast also. Yes. It's so funny. I was just going to say, and we all know it's easy to date in Boston. But that's the thing. It was 70 30 women to men, and it did change the dynamic a lot. So I will say that that does play in and we know that we've heard this in San Francisco that people call it like man Jose at the south bay of the men. Yeah, there's so many men but the downside of it and we've heard this about Denver actually is that men almost give up there because they just assume that women have it so easy and they put no effort in. So women are there for complaining too because even though there's a ton of men, they're not making the moves that they want. So that's why it's the ratio is only tell one part of the story, I think. It's what they do and how they impact the data culture that's the other side of it. That is so interesting. And so they said, yes, you a. Have you heard of the 49er rule for women in San Francisco? No. Okay. So I hate this. But also, I think it's indicative of how men think in San Francisco when it comes to dating. Okay. The joke is women who think they're fors are nice in San Francisco because there's just so many more men for them. So then they have a much better chance of matching. You may maybe say that people that think they're for or that are for people are for. They're a San Francisco 9. Yes, exactly. So their value goes up in San Francisco, because they're just less women. It is. I've never heard about dating a Chicago. What is that like? Guess what? Chicago dating is like for me, it was like Boston dating. Their Midwestern boys, their drunk, a lot of the time. And they're, you know, they like to go to a game, isn't that Boston? I know, that's what I'm saying. They're very similar places to date, and the women are similar in both places. I find. But the problem is, because this is what I ran into in Boston. That wasn't my cup of tea. That's what everyone wanted to do all the time. So again, it comes down to so much of the individual. If that's what you're looking for in a person and dating and all that, then it could be the best environment for you. This is fun. I'm having a great time. And the 49er rule is, I hate it. It's disgusting. But it just shows the men who are giving up. Yeah. And San Francisco and saying, well, I'm not going to date the women anyway, 'cause there are egos are inflated. Not really the case. Okay, I have a lot to say about that. I also just wanted to say, because we're on the topic of dating and whether you know this or not, I'm on my second marriage and I was with my first husband for ten years, not married for ten years, but together for ten years. And I wanted to say this because I think it's something that we find that it's an assumption that happens, that after you've been married, you are like, if you ever date again, you know better. Like, you know what I mean? If I were ever back in the market or when married people or dating people are talking to their single Friends, they're like, it's so embarrassing that she is throwing herself at this.

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There's so much judgment coming from the partnered person. And I just wanted to say this out loud. When I got back into the dating pool, I was a mess. Thank you. Yeah. I couldn't deal with anything. I was falling for everything. I was like, I was just back at being 21 years old with no clue how to return a I was a fool. So I just wanted to say that out there for anyone who thinks that dating is easier after you've been in a long-term relationship because you know better in quotes on the podcast. It's not true. We see this all the time. Do you know what you just said? Yes. 'cause we have a Facebook community for data listeners. And it ranges from people that have never gone on a date before that are in their just coming out of college to people that are coming back after a second or third marriage. Yeah. So the range is dramatic, yet the issues that they're facing are exactly the same. And that blew our mind when we first started this. And you would think that, yeah, like I've been through it all, but the reality is that no situation in relationship is the same. In times have also changed dramatically. No one's immune. Thank you for being honest about that, though, because I think that puts a lot of pressure on the person coming back into the dating, thinking, well, I got this figured out. I know what I want. First of all, nobody knows what you're doing. No matter where you are in life, you don't nobody knows what they want. So that almost makes dating just a little bit more challenging because we are filtering for people we think we want. When we ultimately don't know what we want, and also the other aspect of all of this is that when you get back into the dating scene, you are outdated with your practice. You have been practicing for that long. So you have to learn all the new terms, all the new apps. It's a whole different ball game. Man. From like a three, 5 year relationship, the way you interact with a partner is very different than a first date. Yes. So it's like a mental shift also that you're going through. So far, I'm having a lot of fun. And I don't want to take any more time with my own inquiries. I'll hit I'll get right to our boobs wet listener questions because we have so many of them. So can I can I start here with our questions via Instagram? Here we go. All right. Oh, Maddie, we didn't include names on here now. We've gone full anonymous. All right, how can I keep the texting to a minimum before the first date? I hate the false intimacy it creates. That's a good question. The fabulous question. We addressed this quite a bit. So we are in the middle of doing a 22 day online dating challenge right now. It's a reset of how you do online dating like that. And we want to do this because a lot of our listeners felt the same way. They get into this texting black hole that's what we call it. Before the first date, and then what do you do? Where do you go from there? There is a lot of false intimacy. Our kind of rule of thumb and we don't like rules, but we think this really works is that you're trying to meet someone in real life. So you want to progress things along as fast as you can. So once you've learned kind of three new things about someone on the apps, you get them off the apps onto a different platform. Maybe it's text. And then once you learn something new, three new things about them through text, then you want to meet them in person, or you get them off that platform and move to a video call or a phone call. You just want to keep moving things along so that you don't create that false intimacy on one platform because that's what happens all the freaking time. It also shows how interested they are in meeting because people are on apps for all different sorts of reasons. And we've all been there before when you think you met the person and they never stopped texting and they don't ever show any signs of wanting to meet in person. And that's just a gigantic waste of time if you're spending all this emotional energy getting excited and you're never going to meet them. Like what's the point? So I think even just ask if they're willing to do a phone call or a video, especially in today's world where there's so many other variables with public safety and COVID, but at least shows if someone's willing to take that next step with you. So you're not wasting your time with people that are just never going to move off the apps. That is actually a really good suggestion because if they think your psychotic for like suggesting a phone number or a phone call, that's not a person who's ready to date. Exactly. Exactly. Mind blown.

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Where should I had you 6 years ago? Okay. And also, you just can't, you can't engage chemistry until you meet someone in real life. No matter how many video calls, phone calls, texts you've done, you could have a virtual relationship with someone for years and still not know your actual chemistry until you meet in person. So your ultimate goal is to meet in person. I think what you're saying is if the person is not willing to take it to the next tech step. And they're not setting plans, then these are bad signs. I don't know anyone who wants to talk on the phone that's not going to mean person. Exactly. Is that a thing? I don't know, maybe. Probably a married person who's on the app. Ashley Madison. Okay, I have one. How do you date without doing the online thing? Is it possible to meet people in the wild? It's definitely possible. I think it becomes increasingly harder for sure. So we always suggest doing a mix, not being like, I'm only going to date online or I'm only going to meet people IRL. Just having kind of a diverse portfolio with this. And in terms of meeting in person, the best thing that we've seen is repetition. If you think back to how people met pre apps, it was through Friends of friends or coworkers or people that they saw frequently where, you know, connection could grow over time. So if there's ways to join activities or expand your network in any way possible, so we always like to think about it is like, what is something that's going to make you a better person. Therefore give more to a future relationship. And then also what are things that you could meet someone else at? I had a friend that he loved arts. He loved the arts. He loved museums, and there was this organization that had galas and parties at museums around the events. So he could have just gone to a museum by himself and to fill that need, but the odds of meeting someone would be much lower. So therefore found something that kind of merged the two so he could combine something he liked. I think it's a little disingenuous to just go to things that have no interest to you. And it's going to be painful. You're going to just be there trying to meet people. So if you can go the best case scenario is you have a good time regardless if you meet someone. It's kind of the cherry on top if you actually meet someone. Yeah. We have two trending terms in our dateable community and they're master date, which is you to take yourself on a date? And solo travel. A lot of people are doing solo travel this year. They're not waiting for their friends or family to feel safe to do so. But there is, yes, it's harder to meet people IRL, but there's also this mentality that comes with it where if you are open to the universe and you attract instead of chase, you can meet anybody on a street corner walking your dog going to the coffee shop. There are multiple opportunities in a day that we don't seize because we're on our phones. We are thinking about something else. We're not being present. But if you can take yourself on a date, a master day where you do some solo travel, open yourself up to the opportunities. I just wanted to ask, what's the difference between being in an attracting place versus a chasing place? A chasing place where most daters end up when they start dating. Is they feel like they have to convince the other person to like them. Even if they don't like that person, right? We're kind of like, oh, I want that person to ask me on a second date. I want to make sure that they compliment me and they like me and I get that validation. But we don't think to ourselves and think, do I actually like this person? In a state of attraction, you're just attracting. There's no need to convince the right person. The right person just comes to you and wants to be with you. And so you don't have to waste your time and energy trying to convince these people who are not right for you in the first place. I think in the pandemic, people have this perception that this is actually an impossible time to meet people in real life. And I actually think it might be the best time because people are so hungry for human connection. Yeah. People are so starved to just meet people and have these more humane topics and meet meet cutes and all the stuff like when we talk to our audience about the number one topic they wanted to learn about and have us discuss who is IRL meets. And that was never something in the past that was like the number one. It was about navigating apps or other topics about data your relationships. And I think we need to remember that everyone's on the same boat. Everyone is has lost almost that technique of how do you even approach someone in person anymore.

00:35:09 - 00:40:06

But the reality is you just need to say something that's not creepy. That's the only way to get out. That's the caveat. Okay. Any tips for dating as a non drinker? I love this topic. Oh my gosh, it's like, you read my Mike Katie. Julie, you know, I'm like so into this right now. Yes, she is. Ever since season one, I've been pushing this hashtag sober first kiss. 'cause we truly believe that chemistry is only gauge through a sober first kiss, but in today's day and age, all the daters are drinking and being blackout drunk and then they kiss and they don't remember the make house. And then they're confused the next morning. So there are so many opportunities and so many products coming up that are non alcoholic, maybe they taste like mocktails. Yeah. Julie and I love kombucha as a great drink that kind of has like the ting tingliness of alcoholic drink without the heavy alcohol. There's just, I think, a lot of daters are seeking that right now. So don't feel ashamed to ask for a non alcoholic date because there are so many more tee shops, non alcoholic bars coming up and the more we can ask for that, the more these products will keep coming up for us. I think the pandemic also changed what a date is. Before it used to be, you went to a bar. That was the date for the most part. And, you know, a lot of the pandemic bars weren't actually available to go to. So we started getting more creative. There were park dates. There were even walks that went to a destination around your city. There's just a lot more creativity of what a date could be. And I think especially if you're dating sober, that's something that you can take in, that not everyone needs it to be drinks at a bar anymore. Wow, so I would say as a former sober date or not formerly sober, but formerly dating. I also did a lot of dog walks and then if I thought the person was weird, then we were just like around the block and I could just go home, they didn't know where I lived and met him on a corner. But a lot of men did want to go to a bar because I think that that's where they felt comfortable and maybe that's just not someone that you are going to vibe with anyway. Totally. Is it even worth it? This question is laughable, but I hope it's laughable. Is it even worth it past age 40? Absolutely. People find love at any age nowadays. Like we were talking about earlier, people, I think, you know, back in the day when divorce wasn't as prominent too, is once you hit a certain age, the dating, the pool kind of dried up. But now people are coming in and out of the dating pool at all ages. So I don't think it's ever too late. I think it's better to be single and be with someone amazing, even if it takes a little longer. And I truly believe if you're with the wrong person, that means you can't be with the right person. So yeah, there's nothing wrong. There's no age limitations anymore. I like that, I mean, I'm 41, and I'm thriving, okay? Dating, I am with someone right now, but I think about if I were to get back into the dating scene, I would love it because I have more discretion. I didn't have discretion in my 20s. What you think could be the your own reality. So I met peace with that. I like that. I feel like, yes, I have smaller, a smaller pool to choose from, but then I won't be wasting my time squeezing dates in that would have been a waste of time in the first place. Totally. So I think older we get, the maybe the better dating can get. I kind of am with you on that. Not that not because you know better, but I think you have a less, I think you have like maybe a more full life. And so it doesn't become as like, I don't know, something shifts, for sure. I'm with you. And you've moved on to this people pleasing mode a bit. Yeah. It's more about what is going to work for me. And I think in our younger days, sometimes that can be a scary realization that that's even possible. Yeah, that's true. I totally agree. How do I deal with dating a non planner as an over planner? I feel like this is what comes up all the time. And is anyone really an over planner or is it really just that that person doesn't really want to hang out? No, I think there are over planners.

00:40:07 - 00:45:01

I mean, over it's all subjective, but I have friends that will plan brunches three months away. For me, I would just do that. Weekend of. So people are different in terms of planning. So it's definitely a thing. Okay. It feels a lot like when Friends run dating scenarios by me. I feel like it's a lot of lack of follow through from the man that they're talking to and it feels like they want to set the dates and set the schedule, but they put the man isn't committing to that activity. This is not a visual podcast. So I'm making hand motions and just saying that the man's not really taking the bait to commit to a Saturday plan on the Saturday before because probably because they're not interested in being with them. Is that do you think that's accurate? I think there's so many layers to this. It gets a little bit more complicated and we don't have to get into this very deeply, but it's gender roles. It's blurred, gender roles right now, and I think people don't know what they're supposed to do when it comes to dating. It really behooves us to put all of our kind of what our wants are up front. So if you are wanting for the state to happen, you say, okay, so we're going to go out Thursday. Will you plan this date? And I'll plan the next one. You kind of assign you have to delegate. Otherwise, you're just waiting for someone to initiate and it doesn't, I don't know, in today's dating, it doesn't work like that because everyone's like, should I, am I the one taking lead? Yeah. Just assign someone to be the lead and then you can take turns. We say that everyone is playing a big game of relationship chicken that no one wants to be the person show their card basically. And I think a lot of it is the blurred gender lines that I think, especially with me too and other movements, like men aren't as bold as they were once in the day or back of the day. And I think, you know, women, it's really conflicting. It's like we want equal partnerships, but we still are hanging on to these old mentality of waiting for the man to text first or to initiate interesting answer. Ask us for marriage. It doesn't make sense. And I think a lot of it is this battle of the new and the old. And with relationship chicken too, a lot of it is that, you know, we want love. We want a relationship, but we're not really equipped to put in the work to get there. And a lot of us lack communication skills. We were never taught this in school. We don't really know how to be direct. We just play these games that we were taught by books like the rules. They're just quite frankly outdated. And what that leaves us is that no one's making moves and then everyone's complaining that modern dating isn't working. And I really think we hear this from men and from women all the time. It's not one gender or the other. It's just a universal I was visualized as a hamster wheel that neither person can get off of. That is interesting. Okay, I could I could talk to you guys all day. We have a voicemail question coming in from Laura and Maddie is going to set that up for us. Hi, Katie and professional Gus. My name is Laura and I live in a super small town in northwestern Ontario. It's about 8 hours north of St. Paul and Minneapolis for context. And this is maybe people here full time. I would get here for work and I have since developed a crush like I have not shot since I was in high school on avoid a man, I don't know. And we're not the same department that we are in the same division. I guess we could say of the organization. We don't want together very often. We only see the other one in one project. That's going to end whenever COVID ends. So I don't know, does the small town and there are a lot of people who are in relationships working for this organization because it's like one of two employers in this town. Change don't shit where you eat things or is it just never a good idea? Thank you. We're so cute. She's so cute. What do you guys think? Finding love is one of the most important, if not the most important decision we make in our lifetime.

00:45:02 - 00:50:05

And we feel like nothing should really stand in the way of that. In this situation, it feels like it's not, it's not really about the working relationship. It's really about the chance encounter. That serendipitously, these two were brought to a small town and there seems to be a connection. Or at least I hope this seems to be a two sided connection. I personally don't believe there's anything wrong with pursuing something that she feels so strongly about. But also, have a conversation with him if this were to progress that maybe our jobs could be at jeopardy. This could put some of that at risk are we willing to take that risk together. I don't think this is a decision she needs to make on her own. But if this is the right partnership, the two of them can navigate that together. Yeah, I think what wasn't clear to me was how much conversation she's had with this person before. Yeah. And I think, you know, back in the day, I had so many people that met through work at her married, have families together, and it all worked out. So it's not that it can't. But obviously, she said it herself, like this don't shit where you eat. And you know, if it doesn't work out, it can get uncomfortable. But I think the other piece is kind of, I think a lot of men this day and age heterosexual men are very conscious about making moves in the workplace more than ever before. It's not only are you going to get rejected anymore, but you become a sexual harasser. And there's way more on the line. So I would say if she hasn't, if she hasn't had this come to moment with him that they are, they want to pursue this. I would say like she should maybe own making more of the move in this case. And at least have any conversations of, is this person even single? Like, we don't know how much she knows. So how can she start this and how can it maybe even start in a friend way and have it progress into more a little more organically? So yes, so much of it depends on what conversations they've had. I don't think it's a hard no, but it's definitely a tread more lightly. I, as a non dating expert, one, I think it's obviously it's a good thing that men feel more self conscious about making moves on women at work. And I think that that does put her in a power position to just kind of what's the worst that can happen. She asks him out and he says no. And she still kind of like sees him. Yeah, but she didn't do anything that she didn't do anything wrong. I think she should. However, she phrases it too. It doesn't need to be this big declaration of love or anything like that. Yeah, like I love you, I don't know you. Yeah. Right. That's like something that if you see this person walking around the halls, you're not gonna be humiliated. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, don't tell him that you've been Googling him at work. Like, you know what I mean? And talked about him on a podcast. And Laura, Laura will never tell. What a great feeling, though, to have a crush on someone. Do you remember the last time you had a crush on someone? Yes. When she said the word crush, I was like, oh, how fun, but it's not fun. How fun, you know? I guess, you know. It is unfortunate though that work is such a dangerous place because when you think about it, it kind of goes back to what we were telling you about earlier. This is a place where you could have repetition. You get to know what really well and just have the connection build. You clearly have some similar interests that you've got there in the first place. So in theory it actually should be an amazing place and not to mention you're spending the most time of your waking hours at work. But there is the downside of that that is so much of your livelihood in the rest of your world. And we are getting near the end of the episode and I want to bring Maddie back on to ask you about a recent trend trending nightmare dating scenario. You both are probably so sick of talking about this. But I do the west elm Caleb. Yeah, it is west on killing. This was taking over my life for a week, and I just wanted to know, we don't have to debrief the whole situation. Basically, on TikTok, a woman talked about how she went on a horrible date with this guy, named Caleb, who worked at west elm, and he no, I think they went on good dates and they texted back and forth. And then he was like super into him and then he ghosted her. And then that got a bunch of other women came forward and were like, that exact experience happened to me with the same exact man.

00:50:06 - 00:55:02

So my question, do you think in the same way of like, I was thinking about this today, like in the way that people watching true crime makes you think that you're going to get murdered? Do you think that it's changed people's approach to dating of dating on an app and meeting that guy? You're like, this is going to be the next west elm Caleb or if you have any thoughts on the situation as a whole. Just 'cause I find it really interesting. Now west on Caleb is he went from a coaster. It's just like the only similarity that I have towards it. I really want to know what west dump Caleb is doing right this minute. It's just everywhere. That's the thought that goes through my mind every time I see he got a TV deal somewhere hosting his own talk show now reform data. I mean, I think the hope that comes out of the western Caleb is that people will be more intentional daters overall, but that being said, the only person you can control is yourself at the end of the day. There's always going to be people that are going to ghost. There's always going to be people that are going to do, I mean, I think west Caleb ultimately wasn't looking for a relationship where some of these people were. So people are just in very different places at all times. And I don't think that that should normalize bad behavior, but ultimately all we can control is us. So can you ask a few more questions about what they're looking for and what their attentions are? Sure, but someone may or may not be truthful for that. It's just hard to know. The best thing that I think women can take away from this is how can you be secure with yourself? How can you feel like you're worth isn't lying on a west elm Caleb? So if this is to happen, you can just move forward and say, you know, this wasn't what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for someone that's going to leave me in the dust or this person that claims that I'm the best thing ever and then just won't return my text message. That's not what I'm looking for. So how can you reframe it yourself? It's probably the only real thing you can do from a situation like this. It's good advice. Yeah, I also have another question. Do you think it'll change how people, you know how I think I grew up on the Internet, so it might, I feel like my knowledge of my Internet footprint, like I'm very hyper aware of what I post and knowing that I'm going to see it in ten plus years. Do you think people are going to start worrying about their dating digital footprint, their app dating footprint? I don't know. Oh, that's an interesting question. You know, years ago before your time. Let's tell you a tale. There were two online dating, I guess our apps or websites that try to start this whole Yelp equivalent of online dating, where you can post reviews of the people you go on dates with. And people terribly abused this service because then they started making up stories about people because they were scorned by an ex. I don't really foresee us headed down that road again, but I think what is good about this west elm Caleb situation that came out is that I think, listen, a lot of people saw this and was like, yup, I've had a Caleb in my life. I've experienced a Caleb in my life. But the same people who said this also said, I've been that Caleb. I hope what it brings to the forefront is that we are all guilty of bad dating behavior. Some of the women who appeared in these tiktoks who were part of his roadkill all say that. They were also guilty of dating multiple men, and he happened to be one of them in rotation. Right? So until we have that DTR conversation where we establish boundaries of what this relationship is, anything's game, and we're all guilty of just trying to figure out who is the right partner for us. I'm not trying to excuse this behavior or any of this bad behavior, but I hope that it will bring everyone to look at themselves a little deeper and say, well, I don't want to Caleb to happen in my life, but I also don't want to be a Caleb either. We saw actually right before this recording at our Facebook group, someone posted kid all the people the Facebook group vouched that we were not going to go study war. And the world will be a better place and a more dateable place. And I think that is the benefit that could come out of it is seeing the fallout seeing what it did to people is how can you become the data you want to date? So that's kind of the, again, back to the only person you can control yourself. But if you're acting in the way you want to be treated, you'll want to recognize when people aren't treating you that way.

00:55:03 - 01:00:04

So you can move forward or to you'll attract others that are on the same boat. Thank you. Yeah, I really like that. And are you ghosting? Are you doing that behavior yourself is a great question to ask, 'cause I do feel like many of my friends who date do ghost all the time. It's easy to blame the apps. It's easy to blame the west on Caleb's. It's easy to blame your city. But the hardest person to look at is yourself, which really is the common denominator between all these experiences. Maddie, do you or your friends are they ghosting? I mean, not that I know of a lot of my friends, I also am a BU grad and all of my Friends imported their own boyfriends. Bring your own boyfriend situation. Or they just found one somewhere else and just brought them in to Boston. That should be a service, but yeah, I feel like one of my Friends dated didn't even date a guy, but zoom dated a guy in the middle of quarantine, and then he just stopped talking to her. Or was like, I feel like this is going too far, but then she was like, then why are you talking to me? So it's a lot of that these days, I think. That's just everywhere. It's not even a dating. They see it in recruiting all the time. People ghost their recruiters, they ghost job interviews, people just do not have the confrontational skills to say, listen, I'm not interested. I've been ghosted for a job interviews. Yeah. We had someone that was working for us that didn't even quit and just stopped showing up and then never and that I DMed her, oh my God, this was years ago, but I DMed her. I texted her. I called her. I know she saw my stuff. She never answered me. And nothing happened. It was just like, she just was gone. I think it's that our generation, we're in this we, you know, we've assumed that there's like instant gratification, everything is on demand. You can get an Uber at the touch of your fingertip, right? Like you don't need to work to do anything. So when things fall apart, we don't have any skills to have these conversations. And we had an episode that was confessions of a reform ghoster. And basically what she said was, I was avoiding it because I knew it was too hard for me to have the conversation. This had nothing to do with this other person. I was not in a place that I was ready to have a relationship. And I was not dateable at this stage of my life. So so much of it, it's easy to say that ghosting is reflection of myself and why am I attracting all these ghosters, but the reality is that someone that has not been the person that you actually want to do anyways. You just really hit on something there. And I think that that is just a thing happening in society right now. Yeah. And if you think about it, if we're all anybody listening to this, we hope your takeaway is this. In dating, we are so focused on starting things that we don't close the loop on relationships on connections. We're so fascinated with like, how do I get it this relationship started? How do I build this attraction and chemistry? But we don't close the loop, so then the reason why so many of us are having a hard time getting into relationships, could possibly because you did not close the doors on previous situation ships or whatever it may be. If we can just start closing the loop, we can then open the doors fully wide and attractive relationships that we want. I don't take that. Guys, thank you so much for coming on boobs wet. I loved this. I just had a really great time. I just learned all I need to know, which is that the world doesn't have the skills to anythings, so that is all I need to know. Can you tell everyone where they can find you? Sure, you know, dateable podcast dot com as our website at dateable podcast, Instagram, and our podcast is on every major podcast player. Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you want to go where there. Yeah. Katie is a normal to have boob sweat after your interviews. I'm just asking to ask you for a friend. If you haven't put bus Josh Don, yeah. Yeah, maybe. That was UA and Julie from the dateable podcast. Cubby. I wanted to get your take on some of the questions I talked about with UA and Julie. Are you down? Okay. I'm going to ask you the question then you answer. How can I keep the texting to a minimum before the first date? I hate the false intimacy and creates.

01:00:06 - 01:05:07

Man, that's a really tough one because first of all, I mean, false intimacy, like you don't want to put yourself out there too much or no, it's just like you're just like, you got someone texting you like, how was your day? Good morning. Hope you had a good night, but you've never met this person. You don't know this person, but they're like down to check up on you like they're your mom. Right. Well, if you want to really get through the false intimacy, why not just ask for nudes like and see what happens because either they're not going to text you back or it's really going to get into some real intimate shit. You know, then you'll be on that authentic intimacy. There we go. You got caught up on that word intimacy for a while, but you came through with nudes. So we're fine. How do I deal with dating a non planner as an over planner? Well, you're in luck because they probably need you in their life. I mean, you know, I think that you can compliment each other as partners. I mean, especially if the person is a non planner, they might love that. You'd be like, hey, we're going to the park on Saturday and we're going to walk the dogs and, you know, go get a coffee around. Okay, is this me? That's what I would tell you. Okay. We got a voicemail question, which I love. And the person who called so that they have a crush on one of their coworkers from a different department, wait for it. Do they go for it? Keep in mind, she also lives in a small remote town and pretty much everyone knows each other's business. And they all work at this company. Well, I guess the first question would be, do you care if anybody knows that you were pursuing this person because they're probably going a 100% find out? Under these facts. And then, you know, if I would wish that they would tell us which departments, like, you know, I mean, what if they're shipping or receiving, then you're like, compliment each other? You know, it's like it would be perfect. I definitely wouldn't suggest using company email. Things like that. Yeah. Even better, get wasted at the company Christmas party. You know what I mean? And then be like, hey, what's up, man? Grab them in the corner and see what's good. You know, be like, hey. Okay. Matt, just to be clear, we're editing this. Please just cut to the cut to the real answers. Okay, cool. That's it for this episode of boob sweat. I want to thank UA and Julie for coming on. You can listen to the dateable podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Or find them at dateable podcast dot com and at dateable podcast on Instagram. Also want to thank John for coming on to help answer your dating questions. I'm not sure if he did, but it was very funny to me at least. Have a question or a comment? Call our hotline at two O one 7 O one one 5 7 5 and you could be featured on the pod. Or email us at boob sweat productions at Gmail. If you like the show, please rate and review wherever you listen because that shit is important. Here's a review from so much good conversation. No, from snoozing at you. So much good conversation. 5 stars. I love listening to Katie and her guests. She talks about a wide range of topics that we all face at some point. I lull and learn something new every time I listen. Katie is curious and super honest, what a great combo. And remember to follow the podcast on your podcast app of choice. So you never miss an episode. If you can't get enough of me on your phone and in your ears, then you should check out my book body talk, which is available on Amazon. Barnes and noble and anywhere good books are sold. This show is produced by wonder wheel media and Madison higley. Oh, and thanks to cheese and John and New York City. We're always seeming to make noise when we record the show. You can follow me at Katie's dorino on Instagram to keep the conversation going. This podcast is over. Marriage much fun. The dateable podcast is part of the frolic podcast network. Find more podcasts you'll love at frolic media, slash podcasts. Want to continue the conversation? First, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter with the handle at dateable podcast. Tag us in any post with a hashtag stay dateable and trust us. We look at all those posts. Then head over to our website dateable podcast dot com. There you'll find all the episodes as well as articles, videos, and our coaching service with vetted industry experts. You can also find our premium Y series where we dissect, analyze, and offer solutions to some of the most common dating conundrums.

01:05:07 - 01:06:27

We're also downloadable for free on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Google Play, overcast, stitcher radio, and other podcast platforms. Your feedback is valuable to us, so don't forget to leave us a review. And most importantly, remember to stay dateable. Street talk wireless knows there are plenty of reasons you might need a new phone. But switching to a better wireless provider doesn't have to be one of them. Keep your own phone and save when you switch to any straight talk wireless plan, like our $45 silver unlimited plan with unlimited high-speed data and 5 gigs of hotspot. Plus, nationwide 5G and America's best networks. Keep your own phone, switch to a better wireless plan. Straight talk wireless available at Walmart and Walmart dot com requires a compatible online phone and show IOP kit 5 became available device required. Actual availability coverage and speed may vary. See, latest terms and conditions, the straight talk dot com. Hi. Welcome to your neighborhood pharmacy. Hi, I've got a prescription for diabetes test strips. How much is the copay? Well, it depends on your type of commercial insurance. And back to being in your yearly spend, subtracting the deductibles, also depending on your monthly. Why can't there be a better option? Or you could try contour next test strips, a 35 counts only 1999 over the counter and proven to be highly accurate. Go to contour next dot com slash radio to see if over the counter strips are a more affordable option for you. I think I'll try contour next.

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